Talk:Marine Ranks

Ensign
What about the Engisgn position ?New Babylon 13:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Admiral
The way I see it, Admiral is the only position worthy to having its own page, seeing how long it is, and how powerful and respected the position is. 04:31, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Strangely, this whole change seems better now..

Thank you. And, if anyone has any way of jamming Admiral into here, rather than leaving it its own page, please, feel free to try. 18:59, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see the forum until now. There should have been a vote since I think every rank should have been merged into it. You can even do tabs if needed. SeaTerror 19:04, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't just the forum, the talk page in the Marines, rank category, and other places were talking about merging for quite a while. 20:09, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Uh, that said, I find it confusing not to have a subheading above Fleet Admiral for Kong's Rank, Commander-in-Chief. At Fleet Admirals, it simply states Kong (Promoted). To what? 175.145.173.124 13:18, June 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Commander-in-Chief is a World Government position, and as such is not part of the Marines. This page is for Marine ranks only. Zodiaque 13:24, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Coby & Helmeppo
In Chapter 432 of the manga Coby and Helmeppo are ranked as Chief Petty Officer and Petty Officer, respectively. Yet here, Coby's a Master Chief Petty Officer and Helmeppo's a Chief Petty Officer. Did someone make a mistake here, or was I reading a different translation?46.33.142.30 21:09, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Coby and Helmeppo were ranked as "sōchō" and "gunsō" respectively in Ch 432, same as they are on the wiki, so it was a different translation. Zodiaque 06:06, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

general inspector
both the sengoku and the one piece film z pages have general inspector on them. the link leads to this (marine ranks) page which has no refernece to ths rank. I think that because we dont have any information one the rank yet we should remove the link

There is a rank of Major Inspecter held by a marine named Shephered

Episode 199

72.50.30.130 05:24, December 26, 2012 (UTC)Neutral Pirate

Rank Groups
I made an organization of Marine ranks that accepts japanese original words (kanji) as a guide. I think we could and should group Marine ranks using what I think is OPverse's rationale instead of US Navy's rationale and structure. However I totally support the use of US Navy's denominations as translation reference of individual ranks.

MARINE SYSTEM  

大将官 Taisho-kan *Senior Flag Officers

ZENGUN OFFICER

— 総帥 Sosui  [Taisho] *[ 全軍 Zengun * Forces]  Supreme Commander [Admiral] **Commander-in-Chief  —

MARINE OFFICER RANKS

—  元帥 Gensui  [Taisho] *[海軍 Kaigun * Marine]  Commander [Admiral] **Fleet Admiral  <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">—

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">—  <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">大将 Taisho <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Admiral  <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">—

<u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">将官 Shokan <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Flag Officers

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">中将 Chujo <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Vice Admiral

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">少将 Sho <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">sho *Rear Admiral

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">准将 Jun <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">sho *Commodore

<u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">佐官 Sakan * <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">Senior Officers

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">大佐 Taisa <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Captain

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">中佐 Chusa <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Commander

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">少佐 Shosa <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Lieutenant Commander

<u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">尉官 Ikan * <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">Junior Officers

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">大尉 Taii <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Lieutenant

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">中尉 Chui <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Lieutenant Junior Grade

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">少尉 Shoi <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Ensign

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">MARINE WARRANT RANKS

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">准尉 Juni *Quartermaster **Warrant Officer [No character]

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">MARINE ENLISTED RANKS 

<u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">下士官 Kashikan <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Non-commissioned Officers <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Petty Officers 

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">曹長 So <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">cho *Major Sergeant  **Master Chief Petty Officer

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">軍曹 Gunso *Sergeant **Chief Petty Officer

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">伍長 Gocho *Corporal **Petty Officer

<u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">海 <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">兵 Kaihei *Marines or  <u style="font-style:inherit;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">兵 Hei *Privates **Seamen

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">一等兵 Ittohei <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Private 1/c **Seaman First Class

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">二等兵 Nitohei <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Private 2/c **Seaman Apprentice

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">三等兵 Santohei <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Private 3/c **Seaman Recruit ||  <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">新兵 Shinpei <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Recruit

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">MARINE NON-ENLISTED PERSONNEL 

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">雑用 Zatsuyo <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> *Chore Boy

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">MARINE STAFF OFFICERS 

大目付 Ometsuke *General Inspector

教官 Kyokan *Instructor

<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">'''Obs. 1''': Oda seems to prefer Japanese Army or Marine Corps Names for Ranks below Commissioned Officers. Compare here<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> and here<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> (Ballantine's Grammar of Spoken Japanese) <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">.

'''Obs. 2''': In SBS Volume 24, Oda said Marine (海兵   Kaihei, used as Japanese translation of U.S. Marine Corps soldiers), not Sailor (水兵 Suihei, used as Japanese translation of U.S. Navy soldiers, the seamen). And more importante, there Oda used rank group like Ikan (尉官, Junior Officers) and Shokan (将官, Flag Officers). Exactly I'm suggesting here. Alelucas<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;"> ( talk<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;">) 00:38, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

I say leave it as it is. Since it is an english translation, readers should be familiar with the respective ranks.

I think we could just use the original names of ranks as a guide for grouping the ranks. For example, the English reader should be informed by the OPwiki that a Commodore is a Sho as well. And we will inform official translations as usual and literal translations as usual. For example, the English reader should be informed by the OPwiki that Oda prefers Japanese Army names of ranks for the enlisted ranks instead of Naval names. But I agree with you: we should give English names before the original ones, as usual, by the way. I put the original names first here because I want show clearly what was my point.Alelucas (talk) 16:26, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

'''Rank System according to Oda. '''Here is my adaptation of Oda's description of Marine organization. Note he grouped some ranks. I think we should follow his system. Note also he put the [Zengun] Sōsui but not the Gorosei. (There is another version of Oda's SBS explaining that here .) Alelucas (talk) 13:49, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

We're not going to change it. Oda already gave a full list of marine rankings in a SBS. SeaTerror (talk) 19:26, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

SeaTerror, it's exactly what I'm saying. I think I was not crystal clear here. But my point is that we are not following Oda's SBS explanation. The page needs some organization improvements, especially in rank-grouping. Please, could you re-read my talk?! Note that table of mine above is my SBS translation. And I has explained here using Ballantine's Grammar that Oda uses Japanese Army names of ranks for ranks below commisioned officers. Please, guys, don't be intransigent. Like you guys, I put a lot of work here. I believe I'm not talking bullshit.Alelucas (talk) 00:03, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

It was already translated. You didn't need to translate it. SeaTerror (talk) 21:15, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Was it? I know. I linked it. But it was an incomplete translation. I given a more complete one to our discussion. Did you read my talk carefully? If I can't work on this, say it, and say why, please. I don't understand you. Alelucas (talk) 21:31, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Alelucas, can you please state the exact change you want to do, because I don't really get all the japanese you are posting. Example: Admiral--->General.

Hi, Vaz. Sotoku means Governor-General or Viceroy, somebody who governs a territory/colony. There is no relation with military rank 'General'. It's from SBS Vol. 8. See my translation above, not the OPwiki one, because that information was erased there.

The changes I suggest are to group some ranks as Oda explained in SBS and also used in SBS Vol. 24 (e.g. Ikan, Shokan) and to inform that Oda's using Marine Corps or Army names of ranks, despite our traditional Naval translations (e.g. Kaihei, not Suihei; Socho, Gunso, Gocho, not Itto, Nito, Santo Heiso; Ittohei, Nitohei, Santohei, not Itto, Nito, Santo Suihei). So I suggest we could give more info here, because there's more info. And we should discuss the Zengun thing. Marine (Kaigun) is placed within Zengun by Oda in SBS Vol 8. (Naturally, we discovered Kong is Zengun Sosui later.) And there's no page for Zengun. And Zengun isn't World Government, but a military organization of World Government. We know that, right?!Alelucas (talk) 19:06, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Yes that was an example. Don't give me the japanese words. Give me the word we use now and the words you say we need to use from now on, for each rank that needs to be changed.

Please, see my previous talk. There I gave what I believe is a more precise contextual/equivalent translation (*) and what is our conventional contextual/equivalent translation (**). And I gave alternative names in my translation of SBS Volume 8's Marine System too. However, I believe we should use official, conventional, fansub English translation for the sake of the searchers, but I believe also we should inform more precise contextual/equivalent translation, for example saying Oda use Army or Marine Corps names of ranks, and we should inform literal translation as well. However, my point here is about the page's missing Rank Groups, that is, it's about page organization.Alelucas (talk) 19:44, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Ok I think I got it now. Try contacting User: Klobis and ask him to get involved here. If he confirms these translations, then we got a case, and we can properly discuss on it further.

Thanks, Vaz. I hope you can take Klobis here. By the way, I already leave a message in his talk page, but no answer til now. I suggest we firstly resolve the rank-group [官 -kan] subject (maybe the Zengun one too) and secondly the (more exact equivalent) translation subject.Alelucas (talk) 20:04, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary and incorrect description of uniform.
This my pet hate. Firstly, there is the Rank Insignia section on the page. This section clearly explains how there is no rank insignia per se, and futhermore no strict uniform policy within some ranks. Therefore there is absolutely no need to repeat the description of uniform on every single rank description. The Rank Insignia section is referecing SBS volume 8 and 24 which ODA personally explained the rank system and the uniforms worn by the members.

As for the incorrect description of uniform, if a certain editor solely and exclusively uses one character's uniform detail to represent the whole of their respective rank is undoubtedly wrong. In this incorrect manner, if the editor was to say "a CAPTAIN's coat has gold epaulette and two blue stripes on their cuffs" would be wrong. This is a specific description of Coby's coat. NOT the whole of the captain's rank. Examples proving this are captains like Sharinguru, Very good, Shu, just to name a few. As seen in the images below, there coats are all red and blue epaulette design. Therefore concluding that "A CAPTAIN"'s coat has the details of just Coby's coat is undoubtedly wrong.

< They are all HQ Captains and they do not have coat's with "gold epaulettes" and "blue stripes on their cuffs". Therefore for a certain editor to repeatedly argue that since Coby is the most "obvious" example, that they should represent the whole of the Captain's rank is simply incorrect to say the least. And as mentioned before, Oda has explicitly explained that ranks do not have a set insignia, therefore eliminating the need to add description of uniform on each rank on the page.

The same can be said with the same certain editor arguing that a Lieutenant Commander has their own special type of coat with emblems on the chest pockets. This folly is again undoubtedly wrong as Lieutenant Commanders wear a regular Marine officer coat. To use just Helmeppo to represent the whole of his respective rank is again incorrect. Brannew was a Lieutenant Commander before timeskip. During the war, he donned a Marine coat which was a regular design, as seen below.The same logic has been applied of using just one specific character to define their whole rank's uniform is utterly and simply wrong, not to mention unnecessary.

In summary, with abundant proof provided, I have explained why the Marine Rank page should not have each specific uniform descriptions for each rank as it is unnecessary and incorrect anyway.



Ps. soz for the rant. This is my absolute pet hate.

Incognito77 (talk) 16:04, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

Had to revert until the argument is done. SeaTerror (talk) 16:06, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

I think Inc might have a point here, and I'm prepared to agree with him. Anyone else got a point of view?

16:45, January 16, 2014 (UTC)