Talk:Kiro Kiro no Mi

I've never seen Miss Valentine using the 5000 Kg press... When is it used? Maybe it's an anime only technique?Takanokami 15:28, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think that was the one she used on Usopp during the little Garden arc. SeaTerror 20:23, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be renamed as "Kiro Kiro no Mi", like any other Devil fruit written in katakana? SummerinGanymede (talk) 05:20, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

"'Kilo' is the short version of Kilogram that multiplies a unit by a thousand..." No, I'd say not. 05:23, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Name
"Kilo" is English spelling. In Japanese (romaji spelling) "Kiro Kiro no Mi" is correct. --Klobis (talk) 04:48, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Klobis. If the names are to be written in English and not Romaji, then the fruits should be named Gom Gom no Mi, Bala Bala no Mi, Kilo Kilo no Mi and so forth. Since they are Gomu Gomu no Mi, Bara Bara no Mi, and so forth, it should be Kiro Kiro no Mi.Magnus Zeta (talk) 07:58, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Change it then. 08:47, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, please do. WU out -  09:07, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

This is an exception, since it is the only one to take its name directly from an english word. 16:50, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with DP on this one. And should we move the talk too? 16:53, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if that's consistant, because then the Bomu Bomu no Mi should be called Bomb Bomb no Mi, the Supa Supa no Mi the Super Super no Mi, the Doa Doa no Mi the Door Door no Mi, and the Gasu Gasu no Mi the Gas Gas no Mi. Bomu, Supa, Doa, and Gasu may be English loanwords, but then again so is Kiro. Magnus Zeta (talk) 23:56, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

That argument was so bad I think it gave me cancer. SeaTerror (talk) 00:26, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. That's what happens on Sundays at 9AM. But seriously. Magnus Zeta (talk) 00:31, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

He meant if we usually put on the fruits name in the romaji and not english, why we keep Kilo Kilo instead to change it in Kiro Kiro? If we want to let it as it is, we should change Bomu Bomu in Bomb Bomb, Doa Doa in Door Door, Gasu Gasu in Gas Gas, Doru Doru in (can)dle (can)dle, Horo Horo in Hollow Hollow, Woshu Woshu in Wash Wash, Horu Horu in Hor(mon) Hor(mon), Magu Magu in Mag(ma) Mag(ma), which not make sense at all... I agree with him. 00:34, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, exactly. 100,000,000 Magnus Zeta (Talk) 07:47, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

No the fruit's name is Kilo Kilo no Mi.It's the only fruit whose name is an english word.It's an exception.Deal with it. 07:58, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Gasu = Gas... --Klobis (talk) 09:30, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I lol'd Staw. Stop trying to argue with people that KNOW THE LANGUAGE. 09:38, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

DP already said what needed to be said anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 21:51, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Nah, if we keep this as kilo, then we'd have to change it to gas instead of gasu, mag or magma instead of magu, door instead of doa, berry instead of beri, etc...

We don't "have" to do anything because of what we decide here. We can make exceptions, not just rules that apply to every single fruit ever. Not everything is a slippery slope. We should all stop exaggerating here.

As far as this case is concerned, I think if we went with "kiro", it would become significantly harder to realize the connection with the unit of mass. For people with no experience with the Japanese language, it's really easy to see the connection between "gas" and "gasu", but it's much, much harder to see it between "kilo" and "kiro" because phonetically, they're entirely different. 01:00, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I don't see why all rules have to be blanket statements absolutely and without question. That's just asking for trouble when special cases like this one come along. Not every word is the same, so why act like they are? 06:20, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Will it just retain or will it be changed? I agree on DP. 7:37, 4/10/2013

Keep it as Kilo. The arguments saying the others have to be changed is bad. SeaTerror (talk) 17:03, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

I guess it was never written in latin characters, wasn't it? Maybe in Blue Deep on in one of the databook? I'm fine with making exceptions, but if this is an exceptions, as other said, I don't understand why Gasu Gasu no Mi shouldn't also be renamed Gas Gas no Mi since it's clearly named after the English/other languages word "gas". If you don't explain why this is an exception while other fruit's name aren't, it's just inconsistent. Hence if we make an exception, it shouldn't be "This one is fine", but rather "The one named after English words are fine". Personally I think we should rename it for consistency and avoid other discussions on other fruits.

Translate everything to English then if we were going to pull something like that. SeaTerror (talk) 17:20, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

It's just as you say, Levi. "Gasu" is obviously supposed to be "Gas" however, since we don't translate fruit names it remains as "Gasu". But since it's obvious to the english reader where the name comes from, it's not really a problem that it's untranslated. "Kiro" isn't obvious that it's "Kilo", so it is a problem if it's untranslated. That's why we should have an exception here. 17:31, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Again
I say it again. This page shoul be "Kiro Kiro no Mi". --Klobis (talk) 02:24, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

I gotta say, Klobis has a point here. Otherwise, we'd be going with Bomb/Gas/Door/Berry/Wash/Hobby no Mi instead of Bomu/Gasu/Doa/Beri/Woshu/Hobi. 03:31, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

No. This is one of the few things that translates completely smoothly into English linguistically. We don't have to change it just because it uses the letter L. See previous discussions for further reasons to keep it. 03:35, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Gotta agree with DP here. Bring up some new reasons that aren't from the previous section, or we're done here. Give it a week and if there's no response, close the discussion. 18:52, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

There was no reason to even make a new section anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 00:00, December 23, 2014 (UTC)

Its Japanese name is Kiro Kiro no Mi. Kilo Kilo no Mi is not a Japanese name nor English name. Do not mix. Why don't you say something like "Gasu Gasu no Mi: This is one of the few things that translates completely smoothly into English linguistically. So we use Gas Gas no Mi"? --Klobis (talk) 04:37, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Because there's no such thing as a kirogram. SeaTerror (talk) 06:02, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

I gotta say, if we are going by consistency (and we are), then we'd go with Kiro. No exceptions should be made because of this one so-called smoothly. 03:58, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

We must use the Japanese because One Piece is originally Japanese. I somewhat agree with DP because it translates smoothly with the English one but still I go with the Kiro Kiro.

To be frank, how could this be smooth? If we go by that logic, Gasu to Gas is smooth then. 07:22, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Kilo(gram) is an international unit of mass. Using "Kiro Kiro" would just confuse everyone. 13:29, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, does anyone have anything NEW to add to the conversation? Otherwise, we're just gonna argue about this forever until it becomes obvious that a clear majority is in favor of "Kilo", just like in the section above. Think about what you're going to say before you post. 17:50, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Gasu is just another way of saying Gas. Using "Gasu Gasu" is still what we do, not Gas Gas. For Kiro, it's only consistency, whether it is smooth or not. 06:50, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Google Kirogram. SeaTerror (talk) 21:53, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Google Bomu and they give you things unrelated to bombs. This is not about smoothness, but about consistency, otherwise we'd have to change it all to Bomb, Wash, Hobby, etc. 22:17, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Let's put it this way: Moa were nine species of flightless birds. Yet we call it Moa Moa no Mi instead of More More no Mi. The meaning is utterly misleading. Compared to this, Kiro and Kilo is far less misleading. Consistency! 20:43, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Maybe we should reevaluate all the devil fruits to see if they can be deemed smooth enough to move into English. I know Gasu would be one. 21:41, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Who will judge whether it is "smooth" or not? Do not make arbitrary rules. --Klobis (talk) 04:10, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

No DP. How we do it now is the proper way. SeaTerror (talk) 18:53, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Consistency. Kilo is not. 20:41, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=kirogram You were saying? SeaTerror (talk) 21:23, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Moa is a flightless bird. More is to increase quantity. Moa Moa no Mi means a Zoan class fruit. More More no Mi means to increase quantity. If we do it Kilo Kilo no Mi, then that's what Moa/More means. Consistency! 22:14, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kirogram?s=t SeaTerror (talk) 22:42, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Here's how I see it. Either we keep it as it is; or we change it, which will lead to many more 'arguments' across talk pages about whether to use the Japanese or English version, and probably a big decision on which to use that no matter the result will leave some people annoyed. For the sake of not making another Galaxy, let's just leave it as it fucking is. It's perfectly clear what it means to any English reader, and since this site is predominantly for English readers, I fail to see any problem. We only use Japanese words when there's no precise English translation or if they're deemed important - Shichibukai, for example.

22:49, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

@ST, then we must change it all to More More no Mi, Gas Gas no Mi, etc. Moa Moa no Mi means a flightless bird Zoan. 00:00, January 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ato Ato no Mi, Ato is nothing in meaning itself, just like Kiro. Yet we call it Ato. How do you respond to that? Consistency!!! 00:03, January 6, 2015 (UTC)

Easy to respond to that. Ato is the Japanese pronunciation of the English word Art. It's not a question of translation.

19:12, January 6, 2015 (UTC)

The problem is not with renaming them, the problem stems from what some of them should have their new names be. The Gomu Gomu is a prime example of that. Do we make it Gum Gum or Rubber Rubber (and don't get bent out or shape over what the dubs used)? Both are equally acceptable terms considering their use and meaning. Does Bomu Bomu become Bomb Bomb or Boom Boom? The biggest problem though, will be the new bug Zoans that the dwarves ate. They kept their Japanese name in the manga, so do we translate that with the rest of the fruit? It would be the cultural equivalent of moving Nami's page to "Wave". If we do rename these, it will have to be an all or nothing venture for the sake of "consistency." That means no mi becomes fruit, which I don't see too many people having a problem with. Each fruit will require a tit for tat linguistic examination to determine the best name for each fruit. I realize I'm making it sound slightly more complicated than it is, but I digress. I'm not against it, as long as it's done properly and not hastily. 20:34, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

That's a discussion for Forum:Renaming Devil Fruit Pages SeaTerror (talk) 22:12, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

In Japanese you pronounce the word "Art" as "Ato". So in Japanese, you pronounce the word "Kilo" as "Kiro". Consistent pronunciation, nothing to do with smoothness. 22:24, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

ST's right, the content of this discussion should be in Forum:Renaming Devil Fruit Pages, so I'm going to close the discussion here. And whoever cares enough can start it up again in that forum. 21:51, January 18, 2015 (UTC)

Reactivated Discussion
Since the Goru Goru no Mi spelling, I thought we can rethink how this is done. Since we are sticking with "Goru" instead of "Gol", maybe we should turn this into "Kiro". 23:20, July 30, 2016 (UTC)

We're only sticking with Goru because we've yet to get solid evidence on "Gol" being used in the Film. But otherwise, it does make sense to use Kiro instead. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:08, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=kirogram SeaTerror (talk) 00:20, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

There's no such thing as a Bomu or a Gasu either. Kiro is the Japanese pronunciation of Kilo just like Bomu is to Bomb and Gasu is to Gas. If we're gonna keep it this way because "English" then we might as well change all the DF names that are Japanese pronunciations of English words. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:24, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

Are we really having this discussion again? Nothing has changed since last time. 01:05, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

It's the addition of "Goru" that incited this discussion. 01:28, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

Technically, both Kilo and Kiro are the same thing in Japanese... so I don't think either is necessarily "truer" to Japanese even if we were to say that this DF is unrelated to the measurement. I'm for keeping it Kilo. 02:16, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

I'm with JOP here. Find someone who agrees with you, Yata, because right now we've got a majority, and far too many other discussions to keep this one open. 14:26, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

The japanese name is Kiro kiro, lke gomu gomu, kiro comes from Kilo which is Greek, not english. Gomu comes from Gom which is dutch, so either we call this page Kiro kiro no me or we rename Gomu gomu no mi to Gom Gom no mi CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 01:30, June 24, 2017 (UTC)

Oooh. I like that idea. This Akuma no Mi thing is a disaster. Meshack (talk) 23:09, June 25, 2017 (UTC)

You failed to mention that Kiro is simply the Japanese pronunciation of Kilo, due to the letter L not existing in the Japanese lexicon, with R being the closest spoken aural substitute. The two words are the same, they're only being said differently due to linguistic variance. 02:30, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Gomu is the japanese pronunciation of gom (due an M cant stand alone in japanese), gasu is the japanese pronunciation of gas (due an S cant satnd alone in japanese)... the list is long. either we change every name to the language from where japanese took the loanword from or we use the japanese version of it (as we do everywere exept of here) CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 18:07, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Mass or weight?
This page keeps using the phrases "weight" and "mass" interchangeably when they're two seperate things. Does the power affect her mass or her weight? 66.87.152.29 08:42, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Her weight. 08:43, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

No, it's her mass. In fact, kilogram is an unit of measure of mass.--GABCO (talk) 00:00, January 11, 2019 (UTC)

A kilogram is indeed a unit of mass, but as I understand it Miss Valentine's weight is what increases due to her body not changing at all. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:10, January 11, 2019 (UTC)

True, but Kilogram is also used to measure weight, or to be more specific, the gravitational force/field on the body's mass. (Shinjojin (talk) 00:52, January 11, 2019 (UTC))

Gravitational field trivia
Honestly the trivia bit shouldn't be here. It is entirely speculative and makes less sense than mass shift due to a few reasons. Since I wasn't around when it got added, I thought I'd put it up for discussion wether it should remain there. HN s4mur41 (talk) 02:32, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

What I think of that trivia.

Yeah no one should put 'scientific explanations' of OP stuff anywhere on the wiki. It's removed. 18:31, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

Change to Kiro Kiro
I believe it is pertinent to reopen this discussion because of the results of Talk:Devil Fruit, in which it was unanimously voted to keep all Devil Fruit names to their core Japanese two-syllable pattern.

In my opinion, the result of that poll necessitates that the name of this fruit be changed to Kiro Kiro, to be consistent with every other Devil Fruit name. ロ in romaji is never "lo", it is always "ro". You'd have to transliterate it to get "lo", and we do not transliterate Devil Fruit names that come from non-Japanese words. If we did, then we would transliterate Gasu Gasu no Mi to Gas Gas no Mi, Ato Ato no Mi to Art Art no Mi, Beri Beri no Mi to Berry Berry no Mi, etc. There's no difference with Kilo Kilo, thus based on the result of the poll it should be changed to Kiro Kiro. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:50, February 6, 2020 (UTC)

As much as I hate original Devil Fruit names, consistency should be kept. Cdwp22 (talk) 22:55, February 6, 2020 (UTC)

I agree. --Klobis (talk) 04:00, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

This talk page never had a poll. Also https://www.lexico.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&filter=noad&dictionary=en&query=kirogram SeaTerror (talk) 06:44, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

Wasn't that discussion about the syllable count? Also, when asked, you said it was just about three fruits, not English words inspired named fruits. As for this fruit, consistency is one thing, but this is defiantly suppose to reference the prefix, so even if the Japanese language doesn't have a clear way to pronounce it, that is still its meaning. Rhavkin (talk) 07:18, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

I am aware that it comes from an English word, but that brings me back to my point about other Devil Fruit names that come from English words, which we do not transliterate into English.

Also, https://www.lexico.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&filter=noad&dictionary=en&query=Gasu

Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:28, February 7, 2020 (UTC)

Seems clear that for the sake of consistency it should be Kiro Kiro. DewClamChum (talk) 03:32, February 8, 2020 (UTC)

If everyone agrees why is still Kilo Kilo? Any member of the administration can change it. Cracker-Kun (talk) 13:39, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

You'll have to change every instance of kilogram to kirogram too then for full accuracy. SeaTerror (talk) 17:20, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

Tell me an example of a fruit that has not been named based on its romanization in Japanese. Only the Kilo Kilo no Mi, so why that one yes but the Doa Doa no Mi not? Cracker-Kun (talk) 18:07, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

Why would we change "kilogram"? We are an English wiki that describes topics in English. However, because of wiki discussions, it has been decided to keep Devil Fruit names in the original Japanese romaji, without translation or transliteration. "Kilo Kilo no Mi" is the lone Devil Fruit name transliterated to an English pronunciation. Why do you believe we should make an exception for it? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:04, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

So the only reason for it to be Kiro Kiro is the Japanese character? Not the meaning or pronunciation? If so we should change a lot of "o" to "ou". Rhavkin (talk) 21:10, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

I'm not following. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:27, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

If we decide to go with "ro" because that is the Japanese character, ignoring the obvious meaning, and the fact it is just language pronunciation issue, the same should apply to everything for consistency. For example, all cases we used "o" instead of "ou". Rhavkin (talk) 21:36, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

Why should it apply to everything? The decision to not translate or transliterate Devil Fruit names is something that only applies to Devil Fruit names. I am only asking that this name be changed to be consistent with how we write all the other Devil Fruit names - not advocating to push the Devil Fruit naming policy to non-Devil Fruits. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:48, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

You want to focus solely on Devil Fruits? Fine. Should we change many Zoan fruits to keep consistency? Let's start editing those:
 * Moderu instead of model
 * Baison instead of Bison
 * Farukon instead of Falcon
 * Dakkusufunto instead of Dachshund
 * Jakkaru instead of Jackal

Rhavkin (talk) 22:03, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

I really don't see how that is relevant to this discussion. This is about a Devil Fruit name, not Devil Fruit model names or non-Devil Fruit names. You are free to start another discussion on the proper talk page if you have a larger issue with our Devil Fruit naming. But this discussion is solely focused on the Kilo Kilo no Mi name and its consistency with the naming format of all the other Devil Fruits. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 07:02, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * Every DF name except this one is kept to this template: XY XY no Mi, with X and Y each representing a Japanese romaji syllable. Lo is not a Japanese syllable.
 * It was decided in this discussion and poll to not transliterate Gasu Gasu into Gas Gas, Bisu Bisu into Bis Bis, or Goru Goru into Gol Gol, even though they are simply Japanese pronunciations of part or all of an English word, and were romanized as English words in the series. Thus, I believe the result of that discussion means that all Devil Fruit names should be kept to their core Japanese two-syllable pattern, without transliteration.
 * This page is currently called Kilo Kilo solely because people transliterated Kiro Kiro to match the English word it was based on. Since we decided not to do that for the three DF names mentioned above, I believe there is nothing different about Kilo Kilo and it should be changed for consistency.

Those fruits were not romanized, Caesar and Cracker wore items of clouting with "Gas" and "Bis", nothing say it related to the fruits since Caesar dealt with many gases and Cracker is the minister of Biscuits. Goru Goru I think should be change back due to being romanized.

You say "Every DF name..." and "consistency with the naming format of all the other Devil Fruits" but you are are ignoring the Zoans models that brakes that format, and are translated, not transliterated as you claim all fruit should be.

I started a post poll discussion on the Devil Fruit talk page, a year and a half ago when the poll ended, so there is a discussion on the proper talk page. The fact that it wasn't further discussed there at that time, is irrelevant, but you restarted the talk here.

By the way, did any Devil Fruit (except Tesoro's) was romanized? Rhavkin (talk) 07:35, February 14, 2020 (UTC)

We had Baku Baku romanized in Wapol's cover story.

The best option is translating whole DF names. I don't see any reason why they should be written in Japanese on English wiki. Cdwp22 (talk) 11:09, February 14, 2020 (UTC)

5-2 majority, closing Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:29, April 9, 2020 (UTC)