Talk:Straw Hat Pirates

About the Straw Hat Pirates...

I don't think Joekido is understanding that, yes, Franky did recently join, but Usopp left... and has yet to re-join.

-BattleFranky202

Another thing
Even though Usopp probably IS going to rejoin, he still hasn't yet! That's why we should treat it as though he still hasn't re-joined yet!

-BattleFranky202
 * Usopp rejoined in 438. (Justyn 05:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC))

Current Crew Setup
Can the current crew setup be changed to something like that presented in the Galley-La page. Each crewmember will consist of a brief paragraph or two explaining when and where they joined, basic information, shared info like dreams and bounties, and what not. At the the top of each of these sections will be a link to their individual articles link like the Galley-La page. So okay? I'll liked to be the one to change it to that way if accepted.Mugiwara Franky

I like the idea! Sounds cool!

-BF202, December 18, 2006

All that stuff about Robin
I find it unnecessary...

-BF202, December 20, 2006


 * The stuff Joekido put seems somewhat unnecessary but actually I could work with it somewhat. Anyway I'll modify the current crew setup like I said I would as soon as I can. Multitasking is really hard. Mugiwara Franky 12:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Usopp's Bounty
Umm. Stop taking this away okay. The government and the rest of the world may only know him by Sogeking but it is Usopp's bounty. While, they haven't identified who Sogeking is, they have identified Sogeking is member of the StrawHats and anyone who isn't as easily persuaded as Luffy and Chopper would know Usopp is Sogeking. I mean how many long nosed guys are there in the Straw Hats.Mugiwara Franky 01:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Something about Vivi
Where in Chapter 440 of the manga does Vivi say she wouldn't be able to keep up with them? I don't like that part about her one bit. She is as strong willed (and physically strong) as Nami. - Frozen Blue Flame


 * Its actual 439 she appears... So that is a mistake. Its right after Smoker and Tashigi's bit. Even though she was a clone of Nami, she lack something Nami had - a big enough dream. She had no drive beyond Alabasta's welfare. One-Winged Hawk 07:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I looked at Chapter 439, and I still couldn't find anything. Could anyone provide a link? I think she is a lot like Nami, but I wouldn't call her her clone. Vivi has a whole side that Nami doesn't have, and the opposite applies too. It is true that she had no dream beyond Alabasta, however, one might say that she wanted to become a pirate and have adventures with as a Straw Hat. Maybe even be the Pirate Queen (Haha, that's what my subtitles said when I watched the episode when she decided she won't go on the ship... crappy Hong Kong subtitles, but I don't know, maybe the subtitles were accurate). Frozen Blue Flame 08:19 A.M., 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * here. This is a MSN site so you may have to have to join and sign up for a passport account or whatever its called from MSN services. One-Winged Hawk 16:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Heh, I didn't realize there was a second page. Thanks Hawk........ Ok, so I just read that bit of the manga and I must say, Vivi is not really saying she wouldn't be able to keep up with the Straw Hats (actually, personally, I still consider her a Straw Hat, she is just saying that Luffy is stronger than her. When she says "Our skills levels are different" she is still talking about Luffy. Luffy is also "stronger" than the rest of the Straw Hats too so I think that part should be deleted. - Frozen Blue Flame


 * Hmmm... Give it a small test to see how it goes and then work from there. If after you've removed it doesn't seem right you could revert it back. One-Winged Hawk 22:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

List the Thousand Sunny as a crew member.
The Thousand Sunny should be listed as a crew member in this article.


 * Tomorrow when I have time. It should have already been done.  Bad OWH, you've been lazy again.  Actually I forgot about it.  And Merry was meant to have come off anyway.  My bad again.  One-Winged Hawk 21:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been meaning to do this for awhile now, but I can't find a good portrait picture of it. But then again, I'm a lazy bastard :P Slayerlx 22:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Stupid long list
Okay a preposal;

Rather then having a long list of people who were allies, list the arcs and state who joined the crew for what reason as allies/travlelling companions, etc. That list is a problem as much as a handy tool. One-Winged Hawk 09:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * How about maybe a table listing them down?Mugiwara Franky 15:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm currently making the table at the moment. See here and comment.Mugiwara Franky 15:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I already tried a table Angel Emfrbl/Bounty tables prior to stating this. To be honest, yours is kind cramped.  The version I was working on is a lot better laid out, its the same table I used for the bounties page.  The reason why I gave it up is the same reason why I'm discussing things here, reguardless of the circumstances, that list is STILL too long.  I'm beginning to agree with what wikipedia did when it scrapped the list on the SHs page.  One-Winged Hawk 21:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Made some modifications based on comments. What makes the list too big is that it takes too much space than the actual content of the page. In Wikipedia, I believe it poses a real problem since the Straw Hat crew page doesn't have much content. Here however, we have more content to balance out the list. Also from what I noticed from a small preview, the list looks smaller when tablelized correctly.Mugiwara Franky 02:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the amount of whats written besides each group is the problem?  Even with that table fixed now, it just seems exessive when you tablize it.  We need a few more peeps on the discussion.  :-/  One-Winged Hawk


 * For the single characters at least, some basics norms might be needed for the table.
 * The info per person should at least contain why they help or traveled with the Straw Hats and what they contributed.
 * The info shouldn't contain more than the above two for most characters. Stating that character A is a Fishman that helps the Straw Hats fulfills the minimum. Stating character A's physical appearance and personality is too much.
 * Certain characters, such as Vivi, who contributed alot, may need a small paragraph. The paragraph shouldn't be too much.
 * Characters who are generally grouped together but aren't given a group name, such as Hatchan, Camie, and Pappug, don't need a separate section.
 * I believe this is currently being followed for the most part without the table. Also from the look of the list as is without modification, what gives it the sense of being big is that each ally is given a page section when their info is very small.Mugiwara Franky 02:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I was wondering if it would be better to list the arcs instead with who helped during those arcs, travelling companions would be listed in the arc they joined and the arc they left with final note on their status. Maybe with a couple of sentances of who helped the SHs and why during those arcs.  Listing the arcs is a much shorter list then listing the whole lot.


 * E.g.... Angel Emfrbl/Bounty tables One-Winged Hawk 12:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

That may work for some people but for characters who helped for more than one arc like Vivi and Carue, it maybe too repetitive. For instance, you would get a cell for Whiskey Peak listing Vivi that she joined there. Then you get another cell for Little Garden listing Vivi that she helped explain things about the islands to the crew. Then you get another cell for Drum listing Vivi that she helped the crew safe passage to land on the island. Then you get Arabasta which is shown above as an example. Basically we may get more sentences about what Vivi did in each arc than just a general thought. This may not be a problem for us if we alone manage it, but others who see it may add more than necessary. Lists tend to have that effect.

I guess I'm just seeing a list of lists. There maybe fewer arcs than characters but making a list of arcs that lists every person that helped in each is kinda over complicating things. I mean which is easier to understand, a cell that contains at most a five sentence paragraph about a single person, or six cells that each contain one to two sentences about what that person did mixed in with other sentences about what other people did.

Course maybe I'm examining it into it too much. Try making a table that lists as much arcs as you can with that idea. Make the table and list down the characters that way bearing in mind that some characters would be listed down in more than one cell like Vivi.Mugiwara Franky 19:01, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you need only list WHEN they joined and WHEN they stopped aiding them. Everything between is not needed to be mentioned.  So Vivi would be mentioned in Whiskey Peak and then again in Alabasta to say she left. One-Winged Hawk 13:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess that can be handled easily by us but can that be easily seen by others. The Arc list seems to list people who helped and traveled the Straw Hats per arc without instructions. A Little Garden arc cell may encourage others to fill in Vivi's inclusion.


 * There's also the problem that not all arcs have characters that helped or traveled with the Straw Hats. There are supporting characters in every arc but not every one of them aided the Straw Hats significantly. Most of them were helped by the crew instead the other way around.


 * Another matter about the list, I maybe thinking too much but there is the chance that some of the Straw Hats maybe added in by others by the way it looks. There is the possibility that people may add for example Franky in a Water 7 cell since he started as a traveling companion there and in a Post-Enies Lobby cell since that's when built the sunny and joined the crew.Mugiwara Franky 13:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of lists did anyone see mine on my userpage? Rainbowman 28 June 2008


 * Yes, however they really isn't much linked to this beyond the fact you have a list. You could help though by saying what you think of the ideas being run here between MF and I.  :-/  One-Winged Hawk 13:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Well maybe you can have a short list of One Piece sagas with the members and possibly the allies. For example:


 * East Blue Saga- Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji
 * Baroque Works Saga- Chopper, Robin
 * Skypiea Saga-
 * CP9 Saga- Franky
 * Red Line Saga- Brook

If you don't like it you can always erase this.^

Don't forget to make a list of villains for each saga. Rainbowman 29 June 2008


 * Umm, other than putting a possible obstacle that I stated in, it's kinda oversimplifying the problem. The problem is that there is a long list of characters that appear to take up a relatively huge portion of the page. Maybe adding more info about the Straw Hats themselves other than their allies may balance the page. What the list itself needs most I believe however is a structured table that lists the characters down and doesn't make people go up and down the page just to get the idea of what a certain character did to help the Straw Hats.Mugiwara Franky 04:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Its the size MF, not the contents of each "ally". If we look at the list in the true context, everyone who smiled correctly at the Straw Hats has been listed. Vivi, Franky Family and the Galley-La are the real true allies here, having fought by their side. Others like Genzo, Cricket and Mr.2 Bon Kurei merely aided the SHs as one-offs even though it was still valuable.  Perhaps if we be a little more discrimtive against who should and shouldn't be listed, the list itself might be a lot smaller.One-Winged Hawk 06:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not everyone who smiled at the Straw Hats is listed. Vivi listed here but Gaimon isn't. Cricket isn't listed as a single individual but as a part of the Saruyama Alliance.


 * I guess a little discrimination maybe needed. But what would constitute a character being included on the list. Here are my prerequisites for an ally to be placed in the list.


 * Must have contributed something to the crew either by traveling with them or aiding them.
 * Their contribution was something of real value. (ex. Vivi traveling with Straw Hats = real value, Mr. 9 traveling with Straw Hats = not really valuable)
 * The value of their contribution is great enough because it forwards the story from the Straw Hat's perspective. (ex. Saruyama Alliance modifying Going Merry and leading the Straw Hats = forwards the story, Fishmonger giving Sanji the Elephant Tuna = not forwarding the story)
 * They're people whose character can't be replaced with another in the situations they helped the Straw Hats. (ex. Mr. 2 helping the Straw Hats escape from Hina = can't be replaced since his disguise as Luffy is what fooled the Marines into chasing him, Old Man that gave Usopp food after he left the crew = can be replaced with any other vendor in Water 7)


 * These are what are my values that constitutes a person being included here.Mugiwara Franky 01:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Well either of you better make this section shorter to avoid filling up this talkpage. Anywho how's this for a list of allies:

East Blue Saga
 * Coby
 * Mayor Boodle
 * Usopp Pirates
 * Kaya
 * Gaimon
 * Johnny and Yosaku
 * Zeff
 * Patty and Carne
 * Genzo
 * Nojiko

Baroque Works Saga
 * Vivi
 * Karoo (Karue)
 * Iggarham (Mr. 8)
 * Dorry and Broggy
 * Dalton
 * Dr. Kureha
 * Portgaz D. Ace
 * Pell
 * Chaka
 * King Nefertari Cobra
 * Mr. 2 Bon Kurei (I think it should be Mr. 2 Bon Clay if it's mentioned in the FUNimation movie)

Skypeia Saga
 * Blackbeard? (Jaya arc)
 * Saruyama Alliance
 * Pagaya
 * Asia
 * Conis
 * Wiper (Wyler as mentioned in the Cartoon Network dub)
 * Berserker
 * Montblanc Norland

CP9 Saga
 * Tonjit (Davy Back Fight arc)
 * Galley-La Company
 * Franky Family
 * Kokoro
 * Chimney
 * Gonbe
 * Yokozuna
 * Oimo and Kashi

Red Line Saga (so far)
 * Rolling Pirates
 * Camie
 * Pappug
 * Hatchan
 * Flying Fish Riders (Rosy Life Riders since they refomed)
 * Silvers Rayliegh

What would you make of these lists?^ If you want me to add any filler allies, just say the word and it shall be done.Rainbowman 30 June 2008


 * I think your confusing some of the points of the discussion, if not missing them, Rainbowman. While your suggestions are good, they just seem to make the discussion, if you pardon me, lose its focus. They maybe good, but for me, they seem to throw the discussion off track since you seem to include problems like Angel's stated problem that everyone who smiled at the Straw Hats in the list. Your comments are welcome of course, but I'm not sure if they are helpful if they make the discussion confusing.


 * By the way, discussions like this normally tend to become long.Mugiwara Franky 01:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Made more modifications to my table here. This is as small as I can get as of now without modifying the description of each person.Mugiwara Franky 02:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks really small when applied to the page in a preview.Mugiwara Franky 02:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I kind of like the table I was working on orginally, yours still looks cramped. I think the only way to resolve the allies problem may be just to list the person/group and the arcs they appeared in and leave off how they helped, its written on their pages anyway.  One-Winged Hawk 07:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Nothing against your table ideas actually, just some little things such as whitespace, the idea of going up and down to know characters when a single straight line is better to read, and others. True the only way to resolve the matter would be that but can't these characters have a little sentences. The sentences don't need to be super long, just enough. Plus other than telling what the characters did, the sentences can serve as a little more persuasion for readers and potential editors to visit the pages. People tend to visit places when they are signs to tell them what's up ahead. Besides it would make the list much more than a list of links.

(Don't want to aggravate anyone by the way. Just stating my thoughts. Would be better if there were more than three people talking here though.)Mugiwara Franky 16:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Well while you guys try and get more people to discuss this, there's still my section of Nami's suffering on my talkpage. If you think it's confusing when I shortened it let me know so I can restore it. I saved copies of our discussions on notepads. Anywho if anyone cares to, I would like more discussions on Nami's suffering until some words of kindness can be mentioned for that monster in me. Rainbowman 1 July 2008

Interaction diagram.
I am not sure that the diagram should really be on here in it's current form. It seems fairly arbitrary and doesn't seem to all that accurate in many cases. For example the respects other person arrows, with Robin and Franky going to Luffy, makes sense, but it's pretty obvious that the person that supports and respects Luffy the most as both a fighter, and as the captain, is Zoro. In the situation with Usopp leaving the crew he was most adamant that he show respect and apologize to Luffy and treat him as a captain. There have been many other times where he has purposefully made a show of deferring to the Captains decision as an example for others, as well as asking Luffy what he wants to do and awaiting his decision. Also just in general the arrows tying people together seem arbitrary, and do not cover all the interactions among the crew. Also it is very confusing, perhaps the best way to show at a glance the interactions with other crew members would be a cross-referencing table, with the names listed in columns and rows, and in each box simply have a few details about their interactions with the other crewmember whose name correlates to that box.Ultenth 00:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Whoops! Forgot about the diagram... Well its a nice idea, buteveryone has their opinion on how it should happen.  I forgot about this because I got fed up.  I actually tried a few peoples' ideas from AP forums and they produced a more confusing crap then the diagram I had was.  I'll remove it while I work on it more. --One-Winged Hawk 00:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a good idea to have something on there like that, but I just think it would be better in a form that shows EVERY characters relationships with the others. I think in terms of being clean and easy to understand, that a cross table (think of an excel spreadsheet with everyone's names going both across and down) would work best.  Simply plug everyone's names in, and then in the box where Nami's name is above the Chopper row, have a couple small details of their relationships and interactions, etc.  The only problem with something like this is that it will always be somewhat based in opinion and individual perception, unless you're getting the details direction from Oda himself.  Everyone will have a somewhat different perception of what each of the characters think of each other (for example I personally think that Zoro and Robin have a very strong connection, because they are two of the most mature and serious members of the crew, and often on the same side in many debates, they give off an almost mom and dad type of atmosphere together, not that I think there is any actual romance potential between them).  I guess maybe just make a series of posts on some major forums asking people's opinions of what each character combinations are like, and then use the results of the debates to base the table off of.Ultenth 00:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Forums are not at all accurate. Instead I propose that we use evidence from the manga and anime. This way no ones opinions will be counted and it will be based purely on what we have seen so far. For example Robin and Zoro do take the same sides but that does not count for anything. That just proves that they have a similar logic. We can base it on the fact that Zoro was the only one that did not fall for Robin when she joined the crew.(proving they probably have the weakest relationship in the crew). Nami's relationship with Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy is that she uses them. Usopp and Nami share a close bond as shown in the manga and anime and are like brother and sister and Chopper and Robin also share an interesting relationship. I think we should base it on scenes in the anime and manga. Oathkeeper of oblivion 03:03, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem with that idea is that many of the things are inferred when it comes to character relationships. You can assume that Robin and Nami are close because they hang out and are nice to each other, but you never actually see straight up dialogue between them in anime or manga form where they specifically state that they are good friends and have a closer relationship than most crewmembers. So anyone saying that is inferring it due to events in the story, and two people watching it might come away with different opinions of the events. Such is the example with Zoro and Robin, they may have had a hard time at the beginning because he was more distrusting, but he is that way towards everyone initially, it's simply his nature, he's like the anti-Luffy when it comes to trust. The reason I suggested a forum is because having the conversation here will only end up in probably 2-5 people discussing it, which isn't a wide enough cross-sample of people's perceptions of the characters. For example your perceptions of Usopp and Nami, which I disagree with, as their only real connection is that they are both weak and scared all the time, and thus on the same side on many adventure decisions due to that, but outside of that and him building her weapon (which she cheated him out of paying for) they really don't interact all that often.  So unless you keep everything about their relationships to stuff they explictly state or remove the section entirely, you need to get a good sample of people's perceptions so that you can come to the most widely-used ones. To be honest, anything of that nature is contrary to the idea of a fact based encyclopedia or wiki, so although I would love to see it because I think it could give some great information to users, in the end it will still be somewhat opinion based. In short, if it wants to be true to the idea of a wiki/encyclo, it either needs to be removed, have only explicitly stated relationship facts included, or you need to go ask Oda for every detail.  Personally I find that unfortunate, because as I said I think having relationship details adds much to the article, but in the end you will always have disagreements and arguments about anything that isn't completely fact-based.  So yes, it needs to be based on scenes in the anime and manga, but even the examples you stated are still implied and opinion-based, and not truely objective and factual.Ultenth 04:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Its simpler not to include the anime at all. The anime has many elements of non-canon in it and we usually avoid it where possible.  A classic example is Zoro cutting "anything" in the Warship Island arc and later in the Alabasta not cutting Steel.  Another classic is with Robin and the TV speical where they put effort into saving a actors preformance.  All crew members played a part in the play, with Robin attempting to sing all her lines. --One-Winged Hawk 08:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Either that or you have sepereate sections for anime and manga, but that still doesn't solve the main problem, that most of the relationship stuff is implied, which means that different people will have different opinions of what they really mean, so it won't be factual enough to really include in a wiki. Unless you only use relationship facts that characters actually state, or info from the author that he states, it will always be subjective opinions.