Talk:Shiki

Problem
There's a contradiction it this article. It says, Kinjishi is the only prisoner who escaped from Impel Down, but later it says, that he might have led a mass breakout. However, then he wouldn't be the Only prisoner who escaped, he would be rather the leader of only escape from Impel Down or something like that. El Chupacabra 11:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Fixed. One-Winged Hawk 16:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

The Final Emperor
After escaping from Impel Down, Kinjishi went straight back to piaracy, rose in power, and eventually joined the ranks of the Yonkou. In short, he is the fouth yet-to-be-revealed Emperor
 * Where in the manga does it say that!? Provide a source. This isn't the place for speculation! Kaizoku-Hime 03:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * He's most likely just a canon anime villain for the upcoming movie and nothing more.Mugiwara Franky 14:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The real Kinjishi?
Are you guys sure the guy pictured from the non-canonical movie is the same canonical Kinjishi who escaped from Impel Down 20 years ago? Yatanogarasu 21:49, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The name 金獅子 from the manga is the same one as seen in trailers.


 * The years when Kinjishi escaped Impel Down in the manga match the years Kinjishi of the movie rose to power.


 * The manga Kinjishi was called the Flying Pirate. The pirate in the movie apparently can use some form of telekinesis to make himself and large chunks of land levitate.


 * Various sources state that Oda was the one who fully wrote the script and not just simply provide the designs.


 * All signs point that they're one and the same at the moment.Mugiwara Franky 08:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oda I think is directing it, not just writing it. Can't remember. Its been a while since I even bothered to check up on the movie. I think the story tie in was an ad for the movie more then anything. Likely their the same character, just a different setting since many of the other OP characters canon-wise appear here. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 19:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Move to Shiki
Shiki seems to be the character's name while Kinjishi is his epithet.Mugiwara Franky 07:32, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Second. 121.50.43.189 10:33, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, "Kinjishi" is just "Gold Lion" in Japanese. "Kinjishi no Shiki" is the same as "Mugiwara no Luffy", but Luffy's article doesn't name him "Mugiwara" or "Straw Hat", it calls him "Luffy." DemonRin 09:01, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * So far two votes. One unregistered and one accompanied with reason. Unless there's a bit of a counter argument in the next few days or so, I'll guess I'll accept that the community's feelings to move it.Mugiwara Franky 12:40, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

his real devil fruit
i believe that he is the one who create the level 5.5 in impel down and he has a devil fruit that can control lands as shown in the new trailer of the movie. he turn lands into lions and even snow.Rainelz 02:59, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * While the trailer indeed shows Shiki creating lions made of earth, it's not certain at this point if he was the one that made level 5.5. The one who made level 5.5 was said to be a person with a digging devil fruit. Shiki's powers seem more centered around telekinesis. So it's still a big question.Mugiwara Franky 07:06, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Canon material
It's confirmed that Shiki is canon by Oda's SBS answer and chapter 0. The problem is the other material related to him such as related characters and Devil Fruits. Can we just say that they're canon since its unknown at the point as to whether they're the creations of the anime team, or a team up by Oda and them.Mugiwara Franky 07:11, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I dont see why chapter 0 is cannon. It was a one shot to directly lead into the movie which is definitely not cannon. That was made crystal clear imo by the last page where he says specifically he will launch his plan in 20 years, if it was cannon he is now late or you have to accept the movie as cannon which like I said... it definitely is not. A side story. No more cannon than any other cross over one piece has had. I think the wiki should be updated to add the chapter 0 stuff under the "non cannon" banner. Random11x (talk) 05:00, July 28, 2018 (UTC)

Yonkou
No he has "disappeared" for 20 years, he isn't a yonkou as their current and active pirates that live like kings in the new world. From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong) this storyline is set in the first half of the Grand Line. I don't know, I'm too tired, I think I've removed this muself at least 3 times, but sleep is preventing me mentallity counting every account between this and the Yonkou page. I think its hidden notes time again. One-Winged Hawk 00:39, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Kinjishi's strangeness?
Okay, so this trivia probably will be deleted because of its speculation and it is quite a claim to think that Shiki has the strangest appearance in One Piece. For the record I still consider Franky's appearance alterations stranger.--84.250.46.128 11:09, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Devil Fruit
I believe that Shiki and Dr. Indigo are the creators of the Devil Fruit on that strange island and after 20 years of research, this is what he meant by hell on Earth. Main reasons are thye mention the rare plants of the island and in chapter 0, no one from that chapter shows the use of a Devil Fruit power even though many of the characters shown later on in the present use their powers frequently.


 * Can't be since Brook had a Devil Fruit 30 years prior Indigo's 20 year research. Also Shiki used a Devil Fruit to attack Marineford and to escape Impel Down.Mugiwara Franky 09:52, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Shishi Senjindani
As you may have found out from my last edits, I've just seen Movie 10, and I must say that I enjoyed it ;) The film explained many things that were quite unclear around here, of course, so I proceeded to edit them, but I still have one doubt: Shiki's "Shishi Senjindani" attack, in which he creates many air blades from his leg-swords, sending them at the enemy, in a similar fashion to Zoro's Pound Hos or CP9'Rankyaku, is a result of his own mastery in swordsmanship or of his Devil Fruit powers? I wasn't able to find an answer to this question... So what do you think guys? Aldarinor 19:10, July 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Obviously sword skill, Zoro did it to, so why wouldn't he be able to

The battle against Roger
Read the part about the mongols

http://www.cracked.com/article_18788_the-5-most-mind-blowing-coincidences-all-time_p2.html

Thenewjericho 06:37, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Imprisonment
was it ever mentioned how long Shiki stayed in impel down?

Not from what a I remember

Shiki looks like a Wanyudo
Shiki's head with a piece of helm stuck on it makes him look like a Wanyudo, a Japanese Mythical Creature. A flaming wheel with a man's head in the center, that sucks out the soul of anyone who sees it. MugiwaraHige 16:29, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... The story AND the appearance doesnt fit.. Its just, different..The only similarity is a wheel on a head..

^^ Thats why I said makes him LOOK LIKE a Wanyudo, it means it kinda ressembles.. I DIDNT SAY EXACTLY ALIKE or the story is alike. So what if the appearance and story doesnt fit? What Im saying is Shiki's head with a piece of helm on it looks like a Wanyudo.. Have you got that? MugiwaraHige 17:40, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

It may look like

Doesn't matter. It doesn't belong on the article. SeaTerror 20:33, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

^^Oh but it does belong, its a TRIVIA!!! Who are you to say no??? Dont act too bossy.. MugiwaraHige 19:55, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Dont act like a stubborn kid.. No is no...

can any one here confirm shiki is dead captured or alive with 100% percent certainty
we do not see what happens to him in the end all we know he sent into the ocean we do not know if he surived was captured or died his status is unknown.Facts over opinions 20:16, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

Strong World is non-canon. Since his canon story ends with him escaping Impel Down, he is classified as alive. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:21, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

the special chapter 0 is connected to the One Piece Film: Strong World film is considered canon if strong world can not be consider canon to shiki status shouldnt the chapter that first show him not be non canon as well?Facts over opinions 20:58, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

Not every unseen character status is unknown. Gin could have been shot, Hatchan could have had food poisoning, Kokoro could have been ran over by a sea train. The unknown status is for character who were last seen in a life threatening scenario, or introduced in a flashback. Do you have proof he is anything but alive? Rhavkin (talk) 20:23, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

last time we saw gin he was poisoned he lirteally said he doesnt known if he will surive his status lirteally should be unknown( life threaten situation) last time we seen hatchan and kokoro they were alive there status has never been lefted up in th air last time we saw hatchan on fishman island saying help fix the sweet factory while kokoro was last seen talking to iceburg no hint lf death or anything. ok if chapter zero is counted as canon shiki was introduced through a flash back so his status would be unknown so unless do. so if chapter zero is only material that can be considered canon for him have u seen shiki any were out of a flash back or just name being mention Facts over opinions 20:58, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

If a character is shown to be alive in their last appearance they get the alive status. Doesn't matter if Gin was poisoned. He was still alive in his last appearance. SeaTerror (talk) 22:26, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

really quick question why is pound,Devil Dias,Kadar,Seagull Scopper Gaban pandora all marked unknown then in flash backs we saw scopper seagull and kadar pandora they were all alive in those appearnces just like shiki why are they marked unknown? while pound,devil dias who we last saw alive in life dangerous situions ( beheading, and shot point blank range ) just like gin are marked as unknown but gin can not who lirteally said he might not surive and was poisoned by gas strong enough to kill a entire town ??Facts over opinions 23:50, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

Because they were in the past. SeaTerror (talk) 03:31, September 28, 2019 (UTC)

so was shiki sense you all dont( want count strong world as canon even though its only one piece movie that should be do to fact shiki is not only a movie character ) the only times we have seen shiki was in flash backs and sbould be marked as unknown not alive.Facts over opinions 03:50, September 28, 2019 (UTC)

Strong World is non-canon, so the overall events that occurred in Strong World are not canon. However, we forget that Oda allowed Strong World to be made with Shiki in it. The sheer fact that Oda allowed Shiki to be the main antagonist establishes that Shiki is alive, even if the events in Strong World are non-canon. Oda would not let a movie about Shiki to be made if he wanted him to be dead in the manga timeline. Yes, its manga > anime. But above that, it is Oda > manga > Anime.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 00:54, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

Even if the movie is about shiki and u saying should count at end of movie shiki was sent crashing into ground and ocean it is never said if he survived the hit died from i.pact or drowning or caught by Marines so his status would still be unknown. either way if only count chapter 0 as canon we only saw shiki in a flashback and do not know what he is doing now( like scopper and seagull) or we count the movie as canon and shiki still is left unknown sense we never see if he is caught killed or escaped.Facts over opinions 01:28, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

The movie is noncanon. Anything that happened in the movie is noncanon, so you cannot use the "crashed into ocean" as a grounds for an unknown status. I am not saying that the movie is canon. I am saying that through allowing the movie to be made with Shiki as the main antagonist, Oda has acknowledged that Shiki has not died since Chapter 0. Manga has not said anything at all about his fate since Chapter 0. Therefore, the next best thing is to rely on Oda. Do you think Oda would be like "I want a movie with Shiki in it, I'm going to write Chapter 0 specifically to create a movie with a living character. But guess what, Shiki is actually dead."? No, Oda would not do that. Scopper and Seagull have not been seen or mentioned in any medium at all, not by Oda, not by anything. Those two are not comparable to Shiki.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 02:04, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

how os it that u understand that movie is non canon but do not understand because it is non canon everything in those not count no fights no power ups no creatures no new characters nothin. the hierachy guide lines clear state the manga is highest level while movies includeing ones oda have part in makeing are non canon no matter what. there was lirteally a play made by oda about straw hats visting wano before wano arc even began and fighting a nue devil fruit user should that count as the straw hats first canon visit to wano instead of what the arc from manga has established amd really oda hasnet mention scopper or seagull in any form hm? do me quick favor go read chapter 19 and chapter 0Facts over opinions 02:21, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

"because it is non canon everything in those not count no fights no power ups no creatures no new characters nothin. the hierachy guide lines clear state the manga is highest level while movies includeing ones oda have part in makeing are non canon no matter what."

Of course. So nothing from the movie is being considered when deciding his status. The last time we saw Shiki in the manga, he had escaped from Impel Down and was very much alive. Thus, he is considered alive. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:13, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

the last time we saw shiki he was in a flash back everything in chaptwr 0 is a flash back. we can not say he os alive or dead beacause he is neither seen or mention after that. it is speculation to mark any one seen in a flash back alive or dead they should be marked as unknowFacts over opinions 04:29, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

Again, let me emphasize, what my point was had nothing to do with the events in the movie. My "evidence" against it being unknown is that there is no evidence for him even considered to be dead. My point about Oda has nothing to do with the events in Strong World. It is external of the non-canon movie. Also, your comparisons are never comparable. That play contrasts with the storyline of One Piece, there is no way to fit it into the storyline, but even then your comparison ignores what I'm saying because I literally keep saying Strong World is non-canon and that none of those events happen. My point has nothing to do with the actual movie. Also, when I said Oda hasn't mentioned Gaban and Seagull in any form, I meant that he, nor anyone, has brought them up in the current timeline, not that they never existed......Nightmare Pirates (talk) 04:17, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

do u have any canon evidence he is alive there no proof he is alive in current time line no hints no nothing u can not say 100% he is alive or dead no one can so unless oda annouce that shiki is alive or actually have him appear in manga his fate is unknown. dude shiki has only appeared on flash backs same as seagull and scopper no indication of him being alive or dead sliver axe and ochiusa guy fates are not confirmed either do u want say they alive or how about john they dont say he dead but we all clealry saw his corpse on thirller bark none of us no if any of those guys mentioned (except john ) is dead in current story line or aliveFacts over opinions 04:41, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

A character only being seen in a flashback does not mean we mark them as unknown, unless the flashback was hundreds of years ago. There is zero indication that he may have died, thus he is considered alive and alive only. Also, Seagull and Scobber Gaban are marked as alive. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 11:29, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

ok 1 no there werent some one went to roger page and changed it recently 2 thats makes zero sense shiki is not comeing back into the story the only times he will appear are in flashbacks nothing else oda gave him his big part in the movie thats it ebery one here clealry sees he is not going coming out of know where to some how fight luffy and them that would be a giant plot hole this flash back rule that if they shown ok in manga then they get marked alive is stupid, what if oda did a special chapter about movie One Piece Film: Z that showed a flash back about zephry just sitting down and drinking coffe even though at the end of the movie he clearly died( this not up for discussion his fate was not ambiguous they lirteally say he is dead ) are we really still going mark him as aliveFacts over opinions 16:13, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

Your argument isn't holding much water because while you have said that the films aren't canon you keep using them to make your points. If Oda made Z a canon character by putting him in a manga flashback we would mark him as alive because his death would be non-canon. Simple as that. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:31, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

That makes zero sense know other wiki use this type thinking because they know it makes zero sense i mean really if the movie character (who is lirteally shown killed or status left unknown) is shown in a flash back they still count as alive ? go to Naruto or bleach any character who dies in movies is marked as dead or unknown(mostly dead because there characters are usually shown dieing in the movie)canon or notFacts over opinions 21:09, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

"A character only being seen in a flashback does not mean we mark them as unknown, unless the flashback was hundreds of years ago" That must have been changed recently since I remember characters like Scopper had been marked as unknown before. SeaTerror (talk) 17:40, September 29, 2019 (UTC

First, we don't care what other wikis do.

Second, has any canon character in Naruto or Bleach died in a movie? As far as I know, every Bleach movie and every Naruto movie except The Last are non-canon. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:54, September 29, 2019 (UTC)

Momoshiki, Kinshiki the three togiabato eachmade appearnce in non canon amd canon material all there deaths arw treated the same they die in one they conaidered dead in all media formats manga movie anime what ever they were deadFacts over opinions 01:01, September 30, 2019 (UTC)

That's because they died in the manga, simple as that. (Not sure if Narutopedia considered the Boruto movie canon before it was adapted, but it doesn't matter either way). The events of Strong World only occurred in the film, which is non-canon, so whatever happened to Shiki in it has zero bearing on canon.

You are tripping over yourself with what is/isn't canon and how we handle information based on that. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:00, September 30, 2019 (UTC)

ok 1 no they didnt boruto the movie came out way before the managa as soon as they died even after manga appeared they still classifed as dead 2 ok uh u must not seen the special bleach chapter because the togiatbo do not died in special chapter. its not about strong world its about the fact shiki status he is alive is only because we seen in a flash back no time sense then havent been mention in story line until now that it is stupid rule to have that if a movie character is seen in a flash back in the manga they gain status of alive cause dude your argument that "If Oda made Z a canon character by putting him in a manga flashback we would mark him as alive because his death would be non-canon. Simple as that" Completely baffles me we lirteally see him die but because of a manga flash back u would want to mark him alive and that makes sense to u?
 * ps i need to know who came up with this rule or when was it established.?Facts over opinions 05:25, September 30, 2019 (UTC)

I would argue that even if we base his status on what happened in Strong World, there is no indication or need to debate that Shiki died. All Luffy did was punch him and then he fell along with the floating islands, where the Marines moved in to arrest him. Sure a normal person might die falling from the sky, but likewise, a normal person woulda died through any of those fights in One Piece.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 22:35, September 30, 2019 (UTC)