Template talk:Char Box/Archive 1

What we have
As seen in Pandaman and other articles, the infobox code works. So to make our articles look better, I thinking of applying it to the characters. However to make it work properly and so, I need comments on what to put in. Some current categories can be used or optional however some might not be necessary or may cause problems so I really need some comments. Here is what we currently have.


 * Japanese Name:
 * Romanized Name:
 * English Name:
 * Current occupation:
 * Epithet:
 * Origins:
 * Age:
 * Birthday:
 * Height:
 * Affiliations:
 * Japanese VA:
 * English VA:
 * First Appearance:
 * Last Appearance:
 * Rivals:
 * Confirmed Relatives:
 * Dream:
 * Fighting Style:
 * Devil Fruit:
 * Meaning:
 * English Name:
 * Type:
 * Effect:
 * Bounty:

If a category in the following is not needed or such by the general community. Please put a slash on it with .Mugiwara Franky 04:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, "Rivals", "Confirmed Relatives" and "Dream" are probably not too useful for many characters, so I'd say no to those ones... Plus they're just not that useful in an info box, I'd think. For Devil Fruit... well, since many characters don't have one, it might be best if they were done with a separate thing or something? I know on Wikipedia there's a separate Devil Fruit box, that might work well. For bounties, maybe we could do the same thing, or have two different character boxes or something, since many characters don't have bounties... "Age", "Birthday" and "Height" will also be difficult for most characters, they might be best left off/optional/something, since it seems silly to have entire sections for only a small amount of characters... Um... I can't think of any other problems, though, but I'll keep thinking about it. ^^ --Murasaki 05:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Except in Pandaman's case the info box is only short. The other characters in the series have much more info and it looks odd. We had that discussion right back at the beginning... Its a problem that haunts us even now it seems. Maybe if you shrink the text + cut down whats going in it... I mean some info could be moved to the "trivia" sections. One-Winged Hawk 08:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah some things need to be cut down but which ones is kinda the discussion here. Anyway, I've been trying some tests in Test Page. There you can see two different infoboxes. One with an epithet and one without.Mugiwara Franky 06:32, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That one is okay I guess. The epithet and not epithet look the same... This sounds stupid,but I don't know so I'm asking - whats the difference in having one or not. One-Winged Hawk 08:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's kinda the same but it's an example of a variable that one character may have and another may not have. Anyway, it's work in progress. By the way, I've modified the code been so the text and box are smaller. Check again the Test Page|test page.Mugiwara Franky 13:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Explanations
This is an infobox that could be used for the characters. For most of the empty spots like image it works like basic templates. Simply type "image=" and what you want to put in it. Others like epithet are more complex. To make them work, you need to call up the Template:Char box epithet|template for the epithet by typing "epithet= " and writing the value/s for the epithet. This is because some characters may not have a nickname and some may not. This also works for bounty and devil fruit sections. The "extra1" and "extra2" sections are there so you can put in templates that contain infobox categories unique to a certain character. For instance, take the main CP9 agents. The majority of them have "Douriki" and "Key no" values. A template can be created for those values and used in the "extra1" section. This can be used for them. One can also notice that some of them have "Age" and "Birthday" values. Another template can be created with those values and used in the "extra2" section. With this, you get CP9 infoboxes with Douriki and Key no. values and some containing also the Age and birthday values.

The picture is apparently the crucial part of the infobox. If it is too big or one inputs a large value for it's size, the infobox becomes too large.Mugiwara Franky 05:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay there are some explanations on this template page and such so it can further explain how this works. It isn't finished but I hope this gives an idea on how it works.Mugiwara Franky 13:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Latest Appearance/Last Appearance
Okay this kinda concerns the ships as well but this may need to be addressed. Do really need a category that lists when the character was last seen. It's okay with the manga but the anime and other forms of media maybe troublesome. I mean in the anime, despite being filler and non canon, we saw Miss Monday walking and talking alive in a recent special. This may confuse some people, I think.Mugiwara Franky 04:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

So...
Instead of one simple char box we have several? Okay. Fine with me how about everyone else? Seriously... Being the only one to express opinions on such matters is getting lonely. T_T' One-Winged Hawk 23:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You were the only one expressing your opinion because I was waiting for him to have it all set up first, not because I don't care. XD;;
 * It looks great to me, it fits all the criteria I have for it. ^^ --Murasaki 04:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

So we can use this, right?Mugiwara Franky 23:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like to. ^^ --Murasaki 02:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the box is now currently being used in Brook and Eneru. They kinda don't take up much space. All I can say is as long as the image size is right, the article is long enough, and the instructions on how to use it are read well, it's okay I guess. Other than that, it's good. Any other comment.Mugiwara Franky 13:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

bit characters
Do you have one for the minor characters... With:


 * J/R/E name
 * first
 * occupation
 * Location
 * J/E VAs

on it (give or take one or two of those)? I want to do the minor characters but most are citizens and they have no real info to supply them. I'd like them to only appear if filled in. One-Winged Hawk 21:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Umm, you can do something like this for them I guess. This is as simple as it can get.Mugiwara Franky 07:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Its okay I realised that a day later after I asked that when I did Nojiko's page. I have another request. Separate "4Kids" and "FUNimation" VA options. The reason for this is simply because if FUNimation goes back and redoes the eps from beginning you'll have a situation.


 * Some of the SHs had two VAs (past self and current) so multiply that but possibly 2 more for FUNi and you get 4 VAs for the english dub section. Plus you have to add a little bracket to say 4Kids or FUNi... And well... You begin to get a complex mess. One-Winged Hawk 08:17, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Here I guess.Mugiwara Franky 12:40, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The template is called Template:Char box eva 2. Place this instead of the other one.Mugiwara Franky 12:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thats great! That will make life easier when we find out the VAs for FUNimation. Thanks MF! One-Winged Hawk 12:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Request
I know it seems like an odd request... But can we move the occupation a little. Would it be possible to add another section to the template:


 * 1) J.Roger of crew/flag (Marine/country/etc
 * 2) Afilation
 * 3) ccupation
 * 4) Bounty


 * I don't get what you mean. Are you suggesting another image be placed in the infobox?Mugiwara Franky 02:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Request.
I'm from another wikia, the Fairy Tail one (although I do the occasional content edit here), and I'm trying to make it more organised and spruce it up, for a lack of a better term. I've been reading about and trying to understand how to make my own templates from Wikipedia from scratch but I'm having difficulty understanding some of it. Anyway, to the point: I was wondering if I could use the template format you guys use as a foundation so I can understand it and personalise it for the FT wikia? I'll give credit if credit is due, and I'm going to use it, but I'll take it down if you guys want. To be honest, I'm not even sure if I actually have to ask, but, yeah, I'm new. Thanks. Dalyup! 13:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Your welcome to use it for the FT wikia as long as you give credit.Mugiwara Franky 14:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I will on the template's page. Dalyup! 14:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Infobox appearance
What I dislike in this infobox: things like 4kids English VA where few words are divided into 2 strings. I made a little wider and added fixed width to the first column. You can see the results in my User:Ruxax/Sandbox|sandbox. Imho, it looks better. What do you think, is it OK to change this template? Ruxax 10:14, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Manga and Anime
Moved to

Template talk:Char box/change

First time
I think that the first appearance section should be modified so as to include an optional first introduction and a first time mentioned. Indeed this 2 informations do not always coincide with the first apparition, and it generally corresponds to important characters when they do not. I mean, currently Rayleigh is said to appear the first time in chapter 8 while it's first introduction is only in Chapter 500. Jinbei only appear in chapter 528 but the first time he is mentioned is in chapter 68. Those 2 are quite exceptional in the gap between the 2 informations but there is also Hancock that is mentioned in Thriller bark but only appear in Amazon Lily, Blackbeard that is first mentionned in chapter 133 appear in 223 and is only introduced in 234...

Most of these information are already available on the List of Canon Characters but I think it would be better to have them on the infobox either. Kdom 21:44, August 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * You might be able to add it via a extra sub template, like how Devil fruits are set up in the infobox, that means it only needs to be added where appliable and won't be such a big thing to add to ever single page on the wikia. 94.168.119.106 21:46, August 29, 2010 (UTC) (Hawk reporting)

Yes but you have or you have not a devil fruit whereas the first apparition is compulsary and I'm not an expert of the hiddenstructure thing. Also when I thought about how to do it was not that immediate. Kdom 21:52, August 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * If your editing every editing every template for the sake of a handful of characters, then that would be the reason not for doing this. Thats all I will say right now. Plus, we have the issue of the images still, so an adjustment is still in discussion, it might be best to wait a while and then re-open the discussion when the focus is off of that matter. :-/ 94.168.119.106 06:24, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, gonna add that the whole bunch of Firsts seem somewhat silly. The first mentioning is not necessarily something as only a bunch of characters have gone through this. The first appearance and first introduction on the other hand seems somewhat confusing. I understand that appearance means when the character was first shown in the flesh and the introduction means when the character was first introduced as such, however I don't some people will get it. From the standpoint of a common person who is just a reader, the two firsts seem interchangeable.


 * Also I kinda have to point out that a group of firsts is not something that most people seem to want to list down. It kinda makes things more confusing than they need to be. Take other wikias. They maybe separate wikias, but characters infoboxes in the Fairy Tail wikia, the Dragon Ball wikia, the Naruto wikia, the Bleach wikia, the Fullmetal Alchemist wikia, and several others seem to just keep things simple with just one set of firsts. Even the wikimedia related German One Piece wikia and the fan based German One Piece wikia follow this.Mugiwara Franky 01:58, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I cn understand the logic here since I started removing many forms of "firsts" from the trivia section. IT got to the point where I started wondering if anyone was going to add to the trivia section when the first person to cough in the series was. So yeah, I understadn what your saying. 94.168.119.106 07:42, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

It's not because the others don't do it that we can not improve our infoboxes. With arguments like that nothing will ever be done.

Concerning the first time mentionned, according to my table (yes, I have a table since the information is not here), it would concern 30 people, 28 whom the difference with first apparition is greater than 1 and 25 whom it is greater than 2. The difference is going from 1 chapter in the case of Zoro and Buggy till 459 for Jinbei. So I think it starts to be consequent, in particular, since, like I said previously, it does not concern minor characters. .

Concerning the first introduction, have you an idea on how to differenciate them more clearly ? Maybe it is possible to add tooltips but I don't know how to do it in wiki code. Concerning the confusion point, may I say that the First appearance parameter is not as trivial as it seems. What do we do when a character appear first in shadow form ? It seems that there is a consensus on the shadow form but that is not what I would have done when it was just me. The fact that it is a non written rule does not prevent us to add it in the infobox.

If not in the infobox, I think we should add these 2 fondamental informations somewhere in the article that is quick to find. In particular the first time a character is named. When a character name change is also an important information. Tell me in which chapter we learn Vivi's name from her current page... I remember having searched for those tenth of time and never find it. I inserted it in the List of Canon Characters when it was transformed into a table so I know where to search it, but I don't think many readers know about this page. Previous to the table, I also remember to try to start it using references, but it seems I was not really clear on my purpose (Cf ) :-). And adding everything in a single reference may not be very clear. I also find that the way a character name is introduced is an interesting information (named, written, infoboxes, SBS, databook) but that is another issue. Kdom 07:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vivi's name change should be findable from the history section, if its not, we're not referencing the page section there enough... As usual.


 * I just wanted to point that out. 94.168.119.106 07:44, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know just because they don't do it, we shouldn't. I'm saying it's not exactly the norm in infoboxes due to it complicating things abit.


 * With the mentioning, it can be easily added in the top paragraph. Like Hancock was first mentioned by the Risky Bros. Its clearer in a sentence than putting it up just as a number in infobox. If it needs to be clearer, simply adding a reference to the sentence will help people.


 * With the first appearance, there is a consesus and non written rule. That in itself is what should prevent it being added in the first place. You say that if was just you, you would handle it differently. That however is the problem, its not just you. Its matter that should be discussed with the community first.


 * With the introduction, yeah I really don't think its really necessary to write down in which chapter a character's name introduction appears. If a character's name is always spoken 100% of the time, then looking for the first instance it is revealed is not necessary. This can also get a little more complicated when there are certain character names that are only revealed in databooks. I know you can just add in the infobox if the character is revealed via a databook, but however that might break a pattern set by the other two first.


 * Confusion can also really come up by this setting. Take Marshall D. Teach for which you did. I understand the first mentioning and the first appearance, but the third one I was really confused. Partially because of the difference in anime and manga, I could not exactly tell what this was referred to. From my understanding of what introduction means, I initially thought this meant when Teach was formally introduced as Teach. The would coincide with the anime episode you added but it didn't seem to coincide with the manga chapter you added. From what I understand, during the Shichibukai meeting in the manga, Blackbeard's real name was mentioned but who exactly was Teach was not. They say his name but don't identify who Teach is. It's only much later in the manga that Oda introduces the fat guy as Teach. So yeah confusion created by overcomplicating a simple infobox entry.Mugiwara Franky 07:50, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Apparition : I'm not sure to understand when you are quoting me and you are making your point. Mine was that if we come up with a consensus on the First apparition, it should be possible to achieve it on the introduction part too.
 * First introduction : Why is the first time a character appear more important than the first time a character is named ? I mean, the name is quite fondamental, and the first time it is used is not innocent. Especially when Oda play on that part for his plot purposes (Cf Dragon, Teach,...)
 * For Teach, I don't understand your confusion, chapter 234 is fully covered by episode 151. And the infobox introduces him as Marshall D. Teach captain of the blackbeard pirates. I agree that for such characters, it becomes complicated. But see, that is exactly my point. All these informations about name changes and when they occur are missing on the articles. I have no objection to put it somewhere else than the infobox as long as it is easy to find. So maybe we should start a Forum topic on how to standardize that for every page. Kdom 08:35, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * And may I also point to that discussion since they share some aspect and is still unresolved. The main problem is how to differenciate a character who's name has been revealed outside of the manga from the others in the Chapter and Episode character lists. Kdom 08:35, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * There can be a consesus on when a character is first introduced, but what that means is kinda different from what you are separating. For most people, first appearance and first introduction are interchangeable. Making the two into separate categories makes things slightly unnecessarily more complicated.


 * When a character first appears is a basic fundamental in infoboxes as it allows people to quickly know where a character first appears in. From there they can follow where the character. First appearances can be very hard to find in a large manga. When a character is first named, its not necessary to be listed down as their name is constantly thrown out.


 * My confusion with Teach is that at least the chapter you pointed, does not help a regular person to find out that the fat guy is Teach as there is no introbox that says the fat guy is Teach in the chapter. Sure, there is the article and the anime episode to back it up. However, if a regular person were to look up the chapter without prior knowledge of stuff found in the article, they wouldn't know which person in the chapter is Teach. This is also kinda where I also meant that separate first categories becomes unnecessarily more complicated.


 * For information such as name changes, it really doesn't need a long forum topic to detail it out. You can just simply write such stuff in down the first paragraph. There's no need for a discussion.Mugiwara Franky 09:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * For stuff like what you discussed in the other talk page. I think there's no real definite way of handling things in order to prevent spoilers. The wikia is full of spoilers. If a person would want to read One Piece and be surprised by stuff like Dragon's full name, then they would probably have a better chance at that by reading the actual manga than a wikia that covers everything.Mugiwara Franky 09:11, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * It goes without saying we contain spoilers actually... Wikipedia might do the same also trying to give a brief summary of things, revel the ending of something. We can't avoid it in any way, to be up to date is to contain spoilers on what going on right now. 94.168.119.106 09:55, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * For Teach, I think you are misleaded by Null Scanlation, here, Masuru D Chocheh shall be read as Marshall D Teach.
 * What I intend as introduction is something that clearly identify the character for what he is, ie the first time that we can associate the 2 other parameters {Name, Apparition}.
 * Also the first time a character is named is not for helping the reader to answer the question What is the name of this guy ?, but to answer the question When did I learn how this guy was named ?
 * When you read the manga from start Dragon appears in chapter 100 but that his name is Dragon and he is a revolutionary is only revealed in chapter 142 ; that is full name is Monkey D. Dragon is only revealed in chapter 432. This is fondamental in understanding how the character was introduced.
 * The problem also occurs when the first apparition is largely before the real first introduction of the character, what come first in mind is character like Rayleigh or Akainu. Don't you find interesting that we have a picture of Rayleigh in Chapter 19 but that Brook is nowhere to be found in Laboon Arc ? I'm speculating, but to me it's clear that Oda has drawn the old Rayleigh from what he did in chapter 19, but that concerning Brook, he surely already had the idea of the musician when he draw laboon Arc not the Afro one.
 * To me the first time a character is mentionned, the first time he appears, the first time we can say this guy is called that way are 3 fundamental points in the character information and can hardly be separated. Especially when the difference of time between each of these data reveal so much.
 * Kdom 10:34, September 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, I got slightly confused there since I mistook Chapter 234 for Chapter 224.


 * For learning when a character is named, you can simply write that down in the first paragraph. This guy was not formally introduced as so and so until much and then reference the sentence.


 * For special cases like Rayleigh, Brook, and Akainu, covering them in the wikia really shouldn't be more complicated than what needs to be. First mention and First introduction are well and good, but you really don't need to place them in the infobox. The infobox is meant to be a quick reference that supplies essential info. For more complex things, there are the paragraphs beside them.Mugiwara Franky 12:00, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well initially I wanted to have them quickly so that's why I put them in the Infobox, but since that's not feasible. Kdom 07:08, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * The infobox is indeed a quick reference, however most of what should be added should at least be simple to be quick. Simple topics like first appearance are easily understood and are applicable for the infobox. Several complex topics like first mentioned and first introduction are best placed elsewhere. At the very least, they can be expanded upon than just a few words.Mugiwara Franky 07:32, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Having a character's first apperance in the infobox is fine, but having a "first mentioned" thing is just stupid. There are only a handful of characters that this applies to, and most of them are introduced chapters after they're "mentioned". The Pope 05:26, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Affiliation
Roronoa Zoro Infobox

agree/disagree agree disagree

Juracuille 13:19, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Looks unnecessary what with the group name being there already. Also you would probably need to make little pics for other groups as well. Some groups I believe don't even have a proper symbol to represent them.Mugiwara Franky 13:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehee... Everyone seems to want to hack at the infobox lately. Are the infoboxes that bad and dated?


 * Also this should have been on the main infobox page, not "change" since this is a very specific discussion that was causing problems on the main page and had to be seperated. If you want I can just about get a transfer of info like this much data, so I can move this to its proper place.  94.168.119.106 14:40, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

I already mentioned it it, but I think adding another image, is a bit much. -- YazzyDream  05:37, September 6, 2010 (UTC)