Talk:Zoan

Name dispute
First of all, I'd like to say that I have absolutely no editing skills. Now, on to the point. I think the origin of "zoan" would be "zoon", and not zoanthropy. In Greek, "zoon" means "animal". (And "anthropos" means human), therefore, zoanthropy comes from "animal" + "human". You know, "zoo", as in zoological garden, or "protozoa", (those microorganisms, proto=first, zoa=animals)

I've never studied Greek, but I am studying medicine, so I may be wrong. It would be great if someone could confirm my theory. And lastly I don't know how to sign my posts, sorry in advance, if it doesn't work out.--201.252.15.237 18:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC) best22


 * Thanks in advance for this little tidbit of knowledge.


 * Anyway, the term Zoan in this case would come from Zoanthropy. Though you are correct in stating that Zoon is animal in Greek and everything else, the powers of this type of Devil Fruits lean more for its name coming from zoanthropy and not just simply zoon. Considering those that ate this type of Devil Fruit have the capability of transforming into animals and zoanthropy means the belief of transforming into animals in general, its kinda not hard to make the connection.


 * You are right in saying that Zoanthropy, Zoology, and everything else animal related have names coming from Zoon. However Zoan, for this case, comes from Zoanthropy. It also comes from Zoon indeed but it's not as simple as that.


 * It's not as simple as "since A=B and B=C therefore A=C".


 * It's kinda more complex like "A=B and B=C however A cannot be C unless defined by B".


 * In other words, the situation is "Zoan comes from Zoanthropy which comes from Zoon", instead of stating "Zoan comes from Zoon" straight away.


 * Anyway, thanks again for the input. Mugiwara Franky 08:56, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * We need to only list the direct links, please lets not going into the origins of the English language it gets long and boring and very confusing.  One-Winged Hawk 14:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright, you guys are the pros here. I said already that I don't know much about editing. Just thought my idea was correct. Well, at least I tried to contribute something. --201.252.15.237 02:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC) best22

Clicking on "Hebi Hebi no Ni", directs you to its page, which immediately directs you back to Zoan. That's a bit dumb and should be fixed.

Demon Guards
It was revealed in the most recent chapter, Crocodile states the 4 Demon Guards are zoan users []. should we add the fruits to the list if someone can find out what the names are. the Minotoros should obviously be Ushi Ushi no Mi; Model: Cow/bull Minozebra, i think, should be Uma Uma no Mi; Model: Zebra and what koala and rino (unless we want to say rino is a cow model, like the giraffe) translate too someone can figure it out. or wait for them to say the fruits name in the manga --Kingluffy1 16:40, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We need a confirmation, we know only so fart they are "awakened Zoans" and nothing or little on what it means. One-Winged Hawk 17:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Where does it say weakest?
How can they be considered the weakest and least impressive? I'd love to see you back this up.

Dan


 * Oh only the fact they've overall done the LEAST impressive things up until now. Heck, you don't visit forums if you have that opinion.  I'm normally the one defending them there.  Most people have the opinion Zoans = boring.  And when you think about it, yeah... They don't have any intereasting powers like the paramecia and they aren't destructive like the logia.  They are reliant on YOU being good at fighting already and not the fact the powers can make you do incrediable things. One-Winged Hawk 07:54, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Partial Transformations
This is not explicitly stated in any way. Neither have we ever seen Marco and Lafitte transform into any other form that can be an alternative explanation for their hybrid forms.

The arms--> wings could be a standard hybrid form of all bird types, phoenix and whatever lafitte is. We have never seen bird zoans, let alone seen their hybrid transformations.

what we know so far about zoans is that mammalian forms hybridise with humans to produce a were-human effect. reptiles, like the snake, have shown to interact differently. birds could very well be standardised around having just the arms turn into wings while maintaining a humanoid body.

Drunk samurai is insistant on adding this speculation, and keeps undoing all efforts to remove it. pls help to keep watch and remove this line. --Hyper megaman 06:34, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

I kinda beg to differ. We have seen Bird Zoan users, but not their hybrid form. Does anyone remember Pell, he is Vivi's friend and stars in the Arabasta arc. We see all his transformations. We also do see that he has a Bird Zoan fruit. Look at this for proof http://beta.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v19/c169/17.html JonTheMan 02:38, September 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Are we seeing partial transformations, or zoans in the process of transformating? One-Winged Hawk 07:54, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Transformations that are complete. Example: Going from human to hybrid form then looking at the hybrid form. JonTheMan 02:38, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Good point Jon. Still it could be an anomaly, like chopper is to the mammalian family. Until explicit evidence is shown that it's a specific type of partial transformation without the use of the rumble ball, it's still speculation i'm afraid. --Hyper megaman 01:51, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Carnivorous Zoans
This section is very misleading. It makes people think that carnivorous zoans(CZs) are stronger than herbivorous zoans. Chopper only said that CZs are more violent. It should be made clear where Chopper stops talking and the editor starts. Carnivores are not naturally more powerful or dangerous than herbivores in a lot of instances.--68.251.45.23 17:51, September 10, 2009 (UTC)Vincent

Didn't i rewrite it already? aside from more violent tendencies and specially equipped functions like claws and fangs, i didn't include anything else--Hyper megaman 03:11, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

It's much better than before. I had changed it but some fag undid it. I still think that you should start the next sentence off with 'it seems' or something like that to draw a clear line that Chopper isn't talking anymore. There's the fact that in a lot of cases predators aren't naturally more dangerous than what they hunt. That's why a lot of predators are pack hunters. A single bull or horse is far more dangerous than a single wolf if they're all after you.--68.251.45.23 06:34, September 12, 2009 (UTC)Vincent

Objects
Should it be noted that all the items that have "eaten" devil fruits have eaten zoans? Also, could this be a zoan: Look at the spiked ball on the chain.--DancePowderer 00:13, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Control
Marco has shown advanced control over his Devil Fruit, being able to grow Phoenix wings without going into his hybrid form. Therefore, it should be noted upon. The Pope 22:11, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Ok The Pope, I'm starting a discution since you don't want to and since it will give me enough place to explain my point of view : Those are clearly phrases that indicate speculation, I do not say you are wrong, but you have to reformulate.
 * It has been hinted that,
 * while it is not confirmed
 * let alone even uses a Devil Fruit

"given enough control over their power" : once again, how do you know that ? Marco could have something similar to Chopper Rumble ball. I know that sounds stupid, but the fact is that we don't know how Marco is able to do it.

So personnaly, I would wait until we know more about that issue to write it. But, if you really want to have the legitimity on it, don't speak about Lafitte and don't say that you know the reason behind that. You are probably right but there is no real proof so far User:Kdom ~22:00 December 7, 2009 (UTC+1)


 * Psst; what happened to signing your name with ~, thats naughty to forget. ;-)


 * I agree since its long established that there were only 3 types and Chopper was the only known method of expanding on it. Also, they could just be "mid" transformation for all we know. Marco's wings is simlair to BB's navigator though I do note; I think we need to wait for more info at the very least. :-/ 21:18, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

First of all, if you had actually read the talk page, you would've seen that I was starting a discussion. Why you just decided to go ahead and assume I hadn't is beyond me.

Marco doesn't have any kind of physical body-altering substance that allows him to change shape; it's clearly from his own merit. And he has shown that he can sprout certain phoenix parts without going into a hybrid form. While it's not definite yet, it's worth being noted upon.

As for Lafitte, the reason he's put there as well is because he has shown similar abilities. While noting upon him is indeed speculation, he still deserves attention, as his and Marco's cases are similar. The Pope 21:56, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's true that if Marco had used a "physical body-altering substance", Oda most likely would've depicted him using it or at least have a character mention it. However, Chopper's Rumble Ball isn't the only known method, it's the only known 'external' one. Marco might use something similar to Rob Lucci's Seimei Kikan: Kami-e Bushin. It may be his level of control, a mid-transformation, like Lucci's Life Return, or a trait unique to certain Devil Fruits (same goes for Lafitte). Who knows? Let's wait & see.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 22:22, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * To my defense it would have been clearer if you just told me rather than continuing the edit war which made me have a misunderstanding.
 * On the point, it's not because Marco does not show any substance that he doesn't have one. Oda only shows us what he wants us to know so far. If you remember Robin devil fruit first apparition or Ace speaking about his father in Impel Down, this were really misleading scenes so we shall not jump to the first conclusion. There is no reason to hurry, so why can't we wait until we know more about this. Kdom 22:26, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * You can read talk pages the same as articles. Plus "Recent Changes" would show it up.  Theres actually no need to tell another editor you have started a discussion (unless its ultra important like on our forums and guidelines pages), but it does help if they miss it you notify them if they continue the edit war.  But in agreement, waiting is indeed a good thing, I think back to the assumptions we've made in the past when chapters are fresh out and the later edits we've made previously to fix them. A few days later someone points to the correct translation and "oh-uh" we've got to edit things.  :-/ One-Winged Hawk 00:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * For Marco having just flaming wings without a bird head could be just his hybrid form and not another form in entirety. The same can go for Lafitte and Onigumo, both of whom have animal parts but no animal heads. Just because they don't have more animal characteristics, doesn't instantly mean that its not a hybrid form. It's a bit speculative cause its different from what most other Zoans are depicted but a bit more reliable than saying they have another form. I mean Marco has only shown so far 3 forms, the maximum of natural Zoan forms. Unless he creates another form that's different from him just having wings then its speculative to say that he has more mastery and able to make more forms.Mugiwara Franky 23:13, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * ok so that is 3 vs 1. Does somebody have any other argument ? If no, can we agree to undo the edit then ? Kdom December 9, 2009


 * Please sign your comments with ~.


 * Well at the basic level, Zoans middle transformation is stated on our Zoan page that they usually formed in a bizarre way. So, in good respects to MF, then yes, perhaps that is indeed Marco's combined form.  One-Winged Hawk 20:28, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Well since the last chapters, we have seen that Marco has several middle transformations, (in chapter 554 he has only the wings out, while in the chapter 574 he has both wings and legs), so maybe we can consider it is not speculation anymore. Kdom 11:42, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the talons, I'm not exactly sure on the matter myself. Might be mid transformation, might be Marco having more control. Him transforming in this form might be noteworthy but I'm not sure if it's truly more control.Mugiwara Franky 12:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yes control is not really appropriate and we have to reformulate it but in chapter 554 or in Chapter 566 the transformation is clearly different than in Chapter 574. So with the animal and human form that is at least 4 transformations and that should be notified. Kdom 13:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)