Forum:Images on the wiki

OK I think we need a global discussion on the way images shall be used on the wiki ones and for all at least just to release my frustration. I will not hide my point any longer since I think it is perfectly known by those who care about this wiki. I feel like the manga has not the place it deserve on the wiki. I mean every sunday all the good images drawn by Oda are systematically replaced by anime pictures which are not always as good. Not only are they not always good but we get rid of the essence of what a manga is. A manga is a japanese black and white comic book, it is also the original material. The black and white, the bubble, the katakana sound effect are completely lost with the anime image. So by removing the manga images we are losing a lot : on an information point of view since we get rid of half of what One Piece is, very often on a quality point of view, and, at least to me, on an emotionnal point of view, since the manga comes before the anime. Just take an example from yesterday :

Is there really someone who thinks that the anime picture is better ?

So I initially tried to get the manga back through the infobox and it was appreciated by the community until there was a veto. All the problems raised during the discussion are specific to the infoboxes and do not apply for plot pictures. The only question is the number of images in question which is not a minor issue. The guidelines were written a long time ago when not that many pictures were uploaded, so we need to start a new discussion.

This topic is made so as to answered a few questions : Kdom 06:30, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one frustrated here ?
 * If not, how do we handle it ?

On another subject there is this glitch issue, I have received again an answer from the wikia staff saying that they are trying to solve it. Until they correct it I think it is best to not try reupload the images to much.

Discussion
I enjoy the anime pictures more than the manga pictures. Though I admit you have made a very valid argument and I give you credit on how well written it is. I just find that the colors are both refreshing and easier on the eyes. I feel that the bubbles actually take away from the picture, by taking away space. And these images are approved by the author. -Lotus2490 September 5, 2010

As great as Oda's art is, the point in some parts of the wikia does not focus on the art. Character articles for example are supposed to focus on characters. They're supposed to show the best depiction of a character. A black and white pic of a character maybe Oda's own work but it may not be the best depiction of what he has in mind for the character. I mean he obviously has some say in the color of some characters when they are presented in the anime. Why do you think Marco and Thatch have such drastic color changes?

As for the scene presented, there are some obvious art differences presented but that's not point of the image. The point is whether the scene is represented well. It maybe an example of how sloppy the anime could get but it doesn't mean everything the anime does is crap.Mugiwara Franky 07:10, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * When a character is drawn poorly on the anime version it is not the best depiction of a character. If Oda wanted to draw in color he could have made an anime directly, there must be a reason why he choose this medium. I don't know why the black and white is so despised, a lots of comics masterpieces are in black and white (cf my avatar). To me, color is like suggar, it's easy to like it, but by growing up, you start to appreciate the other tastes more.
 * But that's not the point of this discussion, which is : are we still continuing to suppress all the manga images from this wiki when it is a wiki about a manga ? Kdom 19:33, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS : also MF is it possible to put this discussion on the Community Corner please

What ruins that manga image is the huge sound effects and the speech bubbles. As nice as the artwork is, its not clean and while you argue about Oda's work... Have you actually ever bothered comparing a RAW with a scanalation? If you want the orginal, you'll be asking for raw, not scanalation. I hate to say it... But there are differences between a scanners results and the orginal that makes your argument weaker and you wouldn't notice unless you look. And I'm not talking translations here. ¬_¬' 94.168.119.106 19:45, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also as I've said before, as part of a blunder on my part, the word "anime" isn't on the image guidelines where it needs to be and the consqueneces are it really results in the perference for one or the other optional to situation. However I will note the use of anime is more "universal" reasons then anything. half manga and half anime looks ugly to be quite frank if you really want to go down that path, but as I prefer I note that you can argue "quality" all you like. Quality doesn't ness. mean file or image shaprness it means many layers including how useful it is to the wikia. Standardisation is often better all round then anything for "quality" as well of the overall wikia as it keeps the reader from getting visionally confused.


 * The question of image sharpness is overall just one of several factors. Sometimes, we can even reject the anime counterpart of the manga image for another for those same reasons. Example, I would not resort to use your example the Kdom, I'd have found another frame of image to display. The manga unfortantely has its faults and though it is a direct representation of Oda's work, it doesn't always mean its all that useful to us. Is an image taken up by 50% speech bubble that useful when the anime has nothing to clutter it? Also, as I said before old scans are often poor quality due to the change in technology and hands of scanning groups so it is not advisable to fully spend time turning everything manga.


 * Also consider this, we really don't need images at all, their just there as demos. Also consider as well, that one frame of the anime isn't as big of a issue on copyright as one frame of about 50 in total of a singal chapter. Because there are thousands of frames per episode and not with manga. That why I don'/t like whole pages uploaded myself. Thats a small chunk of the manga uploaded and it puts us on the level of scanalation groups. Since we draw the lines with short one move animations, we're never likely to get as bad as subbers at least. 94.168.119.106 20:04, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry about spelling errors... I'm really struggling with this computer and my current one might not be returning ever to me... T_T 94.168.119.106 20:07, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

I completely sympathize with what you're saying, Kdom. I really, really do. But I think more often than not, the anime does look pretty brilliant overall, with a couple exceptions here and there. (In which case, I'm starting to believe, we just shouldn't use that image at all, but that's another story). The anime gives us the full color of characters/settings without any distracting speech bubbles/sound effects. It's ccmpletely visual, which I think the majority of people appreciate, and it's just... appealing. Especially, as this is an English wiki, things should be as translatable as possible-- so, images can be understood across the board. I'm not saying that those words/effects make the picture bad on the manga page. The job of a good mangaka (any comicker) is to incorporate all of that so the page looks wonderful all together. And of course, Oda's one of the best. But we've actually got a choice that allows us to pick one that will immediately get the idea across without anything else blocking the way.

And I think, as an encylcopedia, we should be consistent throughout the site. And that means choosing one route, so all the pages are as...hm, compatible, as possible. I know this can't always be done (some things were just never animated), but we should make it so when we can. Those are my two cents.  YazzyDream  20:09, September 6, 2010 (UTC)