Forum:Removing Movies and Specials From Character Histories

Character history sections can often be in danger of becoming bloated, and I think an effective way to address this as well as streamline section formatting is to remove their history from movies and specials.

Note: This is solely referring to canon characters. Anime-exclusive characters histories should obviously come from the media they appear in. There are also a couple canon characters who I would consider exceptions to these suggestions, which I'll address at the end.

Why I think this would work:
 * None of the movies or specials are designed to fit into the main story. They can usually be pinpointed to be between specific arcs, but unlike (all but two) filler arcs, they don't serve as transitions between those arcs, and can be pretty much watched at any time. For example, the Silver Mine Arc is specifically designed to go between the Dressrosa and Zou arcs, while Heart of Gold and Film Gold can be watched at pretty much anytime with the understanding that they take place around the Zou/Whole Cake time period.
 * Canon characters don't undergo changes in movies or specials. At most they use some new non-canon moves and wear new outfits. That coupled with not fitting into the main story makes movies and specials rather superfluous for a canon history section.
 * We already don't include history from stuff like video games, live performances, and featurettes in history sections, and movies and specials are pretty similar to them in that they don't fit into the main storyline but are still geared toward a certain time period in the story. By removing movies and specials from canon history sections, we could essentially provide a consistent model for them to be solely focused on the main manga and anime series.

If movies and special histories were to be removed, I would propose doing something similar to the Video Games Appearances section that lists all the video games a character appears in (like this) and making lists of movies and specials that a canon character has appeared in.

Also, regarding exceptions - I think Shiki should be one, as Strong World is still the biggest part of his history. I would also make an exception for characters who appeared in movies/specials before appearing in the manga, like Gally.

Thoughts on this? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:54, June 11, 2020 (UTC)

Discussion
Though I understand your rationale, I disagree and instead advocate for the opposite: all non-canon content (anime filler, movies, specials, live shows, etc.) should be added to articles, but for large pages like the Straw Hats, have them as a separate "Non-Canon History" tab.

Is this more work? Yes. But does it make our articles more comprehensive? Absolutely. As someone who has spent most of his time editing focused on non-canon content, I think there is value including other parts of the franchise aside from just the manga. 19:24, June 11, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Noland. I don't think outright removing the non-canon content from an article would be a good idea. I think Noland's idea is the best solution here, putting the non-canon content into a different section of an article (or different tab if the article is that long) would probably be better. Though I do think that we should only add the animated content (movies, filler, and specials) and leave the games and live shows out because some of them are hard to come by, especially the live shows. Perhaps we could combine the Anime and Manga differences section with all of the non-canon content so that all of that stuff is under a single header.

19:41, June 11, 2020 (UTC)

I also wrote the summaries for all the live shows (Tokyo Tower, Super Kabuki, Water Spectacle, and Premier Show), and even if some aren't in video form online, there is still enough info for most. We won't have any empty sections if that is the concern.

Games are a different matter because they are soooo much longer. 20:53, June 11, 2020 (UTC)

There's no point in removing only the movies and specials from history sections. Either all is allowed or all non-canon content has to be removed. SeaTerror (talk) 21:16, June 11, 2020 (UTC)

I have changed my mind (kind of) after think about this more. I was in the process of compiling all Other Media Appearances (Premier Shows, Live Attractions, Water Spectacles, etc.), so I am fine if they don't get added to history sections of others disagree. I think they would be valuable, but they are secondary to the issue of removing films and specials, which I am still against. 02:03, June 12, 2020 (UTC)

They should only be in history sections if properly separated. Canon should never be combined with non canon. SeaTerror (talk) 10:19, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

The all-or-nothing approach does not work in this case. Each medium requires different treatment because they are fundamentally different. Like I said before, One Piece games are long and would require writing a lot of content. Non-canon arcs often fit in the timeline and should stay. Movies, specials, featurettes, and live shows break that mold and go outside of it. The latter four can all be summarized and included in a non-canon history section, as they have all be translated to English one way or another, while games are not all accessible. 11:05, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with removing movies and specials from the regular history sections. They clash too much with the flow of the timeline. 15:16, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

Though there haven't been any new opinions in a few days, how do you feel about the non-canon history sections, Kaido and Kage? I think that could be a reasonable compromise. Movies and specials won't conflict with canon history sections, but we shouldn't remove the work put into them already. 00:10, June 19, 2020 (UTC)

I support the alternative of creating non-canon history sections for the Straw Hats. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:13, June 19, 2020 (UTC)

I think it needs to be a case by case basis with thorough consideration of multiple factors. Take 3D2Y for example. Is it a special?......Yes. Does it fit into the storyline similar to how the anime would?......Yes, especially since it is set in the timeskip where there are no plot clashes. I don't think a non-canon history section should be called that because anime fillers fit within the storyline of the manga and so are non-canon, and should be kept in the main history using the non-canon alert thing. That would make it confusing to say "Non-Canon History". The only stuff that has big continuity issues are other mediums.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 05:22, June 19, 2020 (UTC)