Forum:This wiki's adversity towards change and hostility towards new members

Everytime a new user comes to this wiki he or she is chased away within two weeks from all the users that come here per month only two of them stay here at the most. From the ones that stay only a very very rare few are editors since new editors are the most disliked of all because they have their own unique views, propositions and ideas about what to do and to add to this wiki and the powers that be don't like that. However all new users are met with hostility wheter it be on chat (where it is the worst) or on blogs. In the end only the very mentaly strong editors stay while others go of to seek friendlier places. Of all the new people to come to this wiki in the last four months only a few stayed. And 9 out of 10 times the ones that stayed aren't editors. (OnePieceNation 19:59, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

If u dont have the balls to take up a warning cause u did some shit wrong and then try do better next time then u suck is all i can say, User:X-RAPTOR 20:03, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Statistics say, that 76% of all statistics are made up on the spot. 20:05, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

So we have no new permanent users, we have a terrible community, the chat is very hostile and blogs are terrible as well :| This is such an amazing mistake.....

I can take up any warning or ban. I planned on doing this forum from the second day I joined, I have experienced it countless of times this wiki's adversity towards change (which is somewhat understandable) and this wiki's hostility towards new users (which isn't understanable in the slightest). I didn't bring out any statistics all I brought out is my observations. If you read well we have very few new permanent users, the established community is rather fun if you have been here longer but hostile towards newcomers. The chat is a place where some users thrive on chasing away newbies (some not all, luckily most users don't activily chase away people). The blogs are great for the most part but new users are made to feel unwelcome on them by some users, again luckily not be all. (OnePieceNation 20:16, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

New members are always welcome, with open arms(open hearts in ladies case). I in my time on this wiki has always welcomed new members and tried to get as close to them as possible. If anyone felt that I acted hostile or unfriendly toward them when they joined, please step forward .. this wiki is a giant family .. we have acted like one and lived on as one since I can remember. If a new member feels that he/she is not feeling welcome on this wiki then please contact me on my talk-page and I will make you realize what kinda misunderstanding you are living in. If you add one drop of water in a glass of milk, the milk won't turn into water .. the water will just merge with the milk. That should be the goal of every new member on this wiki .. merge with this family, become like us and stay on this wiki with us. So I will call this claim made my OPN as "not true" and keep on supporting the New Era as I and this wiki have always been doing. 20:15, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

MDM you are by far one of the most friendly and welcoming people on this wiki. I am not talking about you and other users like you. There are a big group of users who do make people feel welcome you and tuckyd are the most prominent of them. However there is also a group of people on this wiki that actively chase away people Seaterror, The Big Croc and Pandawarrior are the most prominent members of this group. Just ask the new users (DSP, Jade, Ayet, Fleetadmiral, Moku S, Ultimate Law of kaitylin etc.) on this wiki about how they where welcomed. (OnePieceNation 20:20, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

So you think Jade, DSP, AY and FA are bullied on the chat and are chased away on the blogs....? MikuS didn't make a very good impression, but you weren't there, so don't speak of the things you didn't go through and Ultimate Law Of Kaitlyn..... >_> I've never even see her speak or don anything at all on the chat...

not bullied, there is luckily none of that here. However they where just like any other new users threated very harshly (especially when they just joined) be several members of the community. (OnePieceNation 20:35, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

I know I am no big shot to sound like this, but I will state my mind. This wiki has a lot of problems, however hostility is not one of them.

The place is friendly enough. The problems that I witness are rather on a more deeper level. Many veterans here act in a way that implies they think of this place as not a volunteer service place, rather they try to make it appear like duty service zone - which it definitely is not.

What people may edit is the sole choice of the person who is editing, no one and I repeat no one should force someone into editing. Also there is no such thing as "this edit is better than that edit", it is a matter of personal choice. In my humble opinion, every user should be left alone and allowed do what they please, as long as they don't vandalize, breech some commonly agreed issue (e.g. image guideline), or act offensive to someone else.

From my observation, the problems of this wiki are surrounding these issues. However this place in fact is very very friendly. I have planned to leave here not because it is unfriendly but because of the above mentioned issues. I am back here only because of the friendly vibe of this place. So OPN I think the approach you are taking to complain about stuff is not really valid. If you differ then please explain yourself further.

Also OPN, I read your message in my talk page. In fact I am sorry to say this but you are one of the users whom I am not that fond of (there is no particular reason, but I followed some of your posts and I did not like the approach you take to express your thoughts, nothing personal) however I do not support banning people (except for spammers or the likes) so I will vote for "one week" in the forum regarding your ban; but I don't know who much help that would do to you as most are voting for longer ban. Anyways, all the best and sorry for this long ass stuff of mine, if anyone feels offended, I DON'T apologize for it, as I have not stated any names and thus if certain people thinks that I meant them that is due to their interpretations; not my fault or headache. 20:40, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

OnePieceNation is right about this. New users have been treated unfairly and without respect. You guys fly off your mouth, use crude language and your own pigheadedness to scare everyone away without them a chance or listening to me. Take me for example. I was one of the so-called "newbies", even though I'm probably one of the users here that are the most experienced. There was another user not too long ago that made a complaint about the issue, User:Ethelion. She also feels like that. I spoken to several users on the Chat, and they told me the reason you guys drive away new users is because you're not welcome to anyone's ideas but your own. Their words, not mine. I'm not naming names, but that is the truth. You can throw your moth at new members, you have to be patient and courtesy. Users like SeaTerror is a prime example because of the rude way he speaks to them. Some of you even said that he likes to troll, which brings the question why he hasn't be brought out for being ban for uncivil conduct on a wiki.

In any case, I don't think OnePieceNation is doing to strike out against anyone of you. Yes, I know about the forum that's been going on for several members of the wiki due to issues about them, and one of them is about OnePieceNation. He/She is right about the new members receiving hostility from the other users here. A I think you guys are being a little bit unfair towards him. Have you even consider any of the other users that might do the same thing? You speak rudely to new members, using as far as curse words to criticize others, which I don't think is kind and sends a good message to any new members.

As for what the user above me said, a wiki is a community. Conflicts will arise among edits, and yes, there is such a thing about "which edit is better than that edit". If any of you major in English that you must know the proper and better of writing sentences. Being on a wiki with many users, it is impossible to "stay out of anyone's way and do as he please".-- Ninja Sheik  20:48, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ninja, I have no idea why you were treated "badly" but just ask your friend http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User:IndxcvNovelist (I believe she is your friend) on the Narutopedia wiki, I think she might even have had a good time on the chat...

BDS

you brought something under words that I couldn't Many veterans here act in a way that implies they think of this place as not a volunteer service place, rather they try to make it appear like duty service zone this falls for me in the realm of adversity. Also just to let you know I highly value your imput since you are to me a very fair individual. My approach to stuff is very very straightforward, which antogonizes a lot of people also I can be very long winded which in this age is very disliked also. I am glad that there are people like you that think very seriously about banning and I think that if there were more people like you on this wiki, that I would have had a better time here. (though I did have fun times here too, but people here are very gunhow to only focus on the negative parts about me and forget the possitive all together.) (OnePieceNation 20:55, May 24, 2012 (UTC)).

{C}Ninjasheik

{C}Thank you for your addition to this forum, you really got to the hearth of this issue. (OnePieceNation 21:06, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

Who? Ethelion? And just because people are working on the same wiki doesn't mean they're all friends. All you guys should that from experience, seeing how much conflict as been going for the last few days. I don't know, I just know she went to Yata-senpai for help regarding the rude users. For whatever reason why she was complaining, I don't know. But she is one of the users that made a point, you guys are not open-minded to anyone's ideas but you own. I think you guys let your emotions control instead of be professional on the wiki. It's a community. People will come and go, but what you guys are doing completely unfair. And now you're ganging up OnePieceNation someone because the forums he created it. I agree that Pandawarrior is also quite rude, considering he reverted some of my edits without a proper explanation and completely disregard what I was trying to say, but that's beside the point.

OnePieceNation was right to create this forum, I was hooping something like would be brought up after lost my ever-lasting patience with everyone here because of the unfair treatment I received. And judging from some of the other newbies, they're not the only one. How can a wiki thrive when everyone else is at each other's throat because you focus on he trivial because you let your emotions control your judgement? Do you even really, REALLY take in what you do to new members? How you treat them, and your own actions? What affect they have to others? You scare them away without a second thought because all of you are not open to new ideas or new ways because this wiki has been so closed in its shell that it rather leave as it rather evolve into something better.-- Ninja Sheik  21:02, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

He for Panda? It's a she XD Now let me ask you who those other anonymous "other newbs" are.... Since all OPN mentioned were pretty wrong. The one I mentioned was http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User:IndxcvNovelist

AYET was a new user treated poorly?

um wat    Contr         KOROMO         Talk      21:08, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Me and Ehtelion was two examples. I also spoke to other users here on Chat before, and they seem to sympahtize with my plight. I'm not naming names so I won't call anyone out, it's your choice. If they choose to come forward or not, then I'll just have to respect their decision.-- Ninja Sheik  21:12, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Apparently so was Jade and DSP >_>

OPN, the last single drop of respect I had for you.... *looks at your edits* Never mind, you lost all of my respect for quite a while. Well, let start this again, OPN, the last good thing about yourself had now been tainted by this forum and Panda's ban request forum. You are now officially a complete idiot, moron, and ass in my opinion. I dunno about any other but frankly, I don't care. I simply cannot believe you actually used me as an example.

Okay, you guys want my opinion of how I was treated when I first joined this wikia? Fine. When I came on the chat for the first time, everyone was very nice to me, I was not met by hostility at all. If the users had been mean to me, it was mostly joking. And when I started editing, I made mistakes, like all of the users did. But the wiki politely pointed out my mistakes and fixed them. I have no idea what hostility you are talking about in the case of me. In fact, I would LOVE to hear exactly when the wiki was hostile towards me. Oh, and I would love to hear your definition of what is hostility is, because either we have VERY different definitions on that, or maybe you are just a complete idiot.

And as for the users that had been met with hostility, well, the only thing I can say is that it's usually their own fault that we treat them with such hostility. Miku didn't make a good impression at all, you are a complete moron and too stubborn to listen to us, etc. 21:11, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, why'd you undo my edit? It really depends on what kind of edits a user makes on the wiki to have other users diss them for it. If guys really want me to list of my examples again, then go the Forum:Polls, because I'm honestly tired of repeating myself over and over again.
 * http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum%3ASite_Polls This forum? There was no dissing there whatsoever, your topic was debated upon and voted upon in a civil manner, unless you're still complaining about our site rule of 3 months/300 edits. 21:24, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

{C}You deleted what I said, so I undid it. 21:20, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ninja, you're the one who deleted her edit first >_>

It amuses me when people bring up topics I blogged about months ago. 21:24, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Neowitch/Wikians_are_N00b_haters <3 21:28, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

@NinjaSheik: Well I think you misunderstood me, "this edit is better than that edit" this phrase of mine meant nothing about grammar issues or something like that, what I wanted to say was, there is a hype recently around here that makes editing in some particular space apparently more important than other spaces. Some users try to thus belittle general edits which I find unfair. Better text will replace the poorer text, same will be the case with image and everything else and improper English will be corrected - those are given, no quarell there.

@OPN: If my text that you quoted in italics is indeed part of what you tried to indicate then I agree however please do take in mind, I agree only upto that much... and thank you for you kind words. 21:26, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

@Jademing and The Humaniod Typhoon: What the heck are you talking? I didn't undo anyone's edit. That must've happened by accident because of the edit conflicts. Those things do happen when users are editing one the page at once and it cannot be saved all at once.

@Panidawarrior: Oh, right... You guys moved it because the first forum got out of hand. Okay, find the forum about NinjaSheik's talk page. That was the original.-- Ninja Sheik  21:36, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like I should clarify this wiki's attitude towards new users. This wiki is not against new users. We like them, encourage them to join, and welcome their contributions. Children are the future and whatnot. What we don't like is when a new user or users come in like they own the place and start making mass-scale changes without consulting other editors. Large changes are fine, I'm not arguing that, it's the suddenness and lack of announcement that irritates veteran editors. Now, I realize there are two types of new users. There are users who are new to wikis entirely, and then there are users who are new to this wiki. Again, both types are welcome. What seems to be the problem here is with veteran editors who are new to this wiki. No two wiki are alike. Each one has their own way of getting things done, their own rules, their own regulations, their own routines. Problems arise when veteran editors apply the transitive property inter-wiki (please note, I am speaking generally and not pointing fingers at anyone here). They tend to think that the way the wiki they were last on does things is how all wikis do things. That is simply not the case. As I said above, all wikis do things differently. I have learned this from editing on other wikis myself. I find it necessary to be the casual observer of how things get done on a wiki I am new to. If you join a wiki you have never edited on, you must consider yourself a humble noob, despite your experience. Learn the ins and outs of how each wiki gets stuff done, and then dive into their flow. Going against the current in this case is what creates problems. While I admit that some of the editors can act somewhat hostile toward new people who continually make mistakes, generally they are willing to put up with it so long as they know that the new person knows they are still learning with only the best intentions. They assume ignorance, not arrogance. When new users try to do their own thing and ignore other editors, that's when problems like this arise. At that point, it is hard to tell if the person in question is simply being arrogant or a subtle yet deliberate vandal. While I realize veteran editors new to a wiki only have the best intentions, that can be construed by their actions from the viewpoint of the regular users. Which is where we find ourselves here. OPN, Sheik, I realize that you two had only the best intentions when joining this wiki, but the way you went about it suggested you were being transcendant of the rules already in place, which doesn't go over well with regular users. While the regular users on here could have handled your actions better, you are just as much at fault for not realizing that your attitudes were getting in the way of your overall productivity as well as your rapports with other users. We welcome new blood to the wiki, but attitude problems make it difficult to do so. 21:37, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

People get the treatment they deserve.

Just putting the word out that the sole purpose of this wiki is to provide correct and accurate info about One Piece to the ones in need. This is not a blogging site and nor it is a chat-socialization site .. those things were meant to help members discuss as whole on issues about the wiki and opinions about one piece. So what happens on blogs and chat has no relation to the wikia. You may think that blogs are part of this wiki but they are just a form of opinion sharing tool. You are free to share your opinion on chat and blog however you like as long as you are doing whats right.

Now to the main topic, Edits and Articles. This wiki's purpose is to have accurate source of info about One Piece and to provide that we need constant contribution from members everyday. Only 25% or less <--my opinion, not fact. members edit on articles .. rest are bloggers or chatters. but when you are editing, certain rules applies to your actions. Now you are in the most important part of the wiki which is related to its major purpose. If you make edits and make mistakes, people might tell you things but they do that you you don't make those mistake again. We respect that you want to bring the new ideas and look to this wiki but this wiki has founded its pillars long ago and its impossible to replace them without bringing the whole system down. I didn't have must chance to talk with Ninja but from her action in the past, I felt that she wants to help this wiki but her POV is different from ours and of this wikia. When new members come and oppose or force their ideas on someone who has contributed on this wiki for long time, its very possible that the other person will get mad and might tell you some rude things, but does that mean that the whole wiki is against you? Editors gonna edit, Bloggers gonna blog, chatters gonna chat and trolls gonna troll. This wiki and this world is very alike, there are some bad people out there who try to change the system, .. but there is law and police there to show them the correct way and maintain peace. Understand each-other's position on this wiki .. and if you are not satisfied then improve yourself, feeling low and bitching and complaining about everything won't get you what you want, you have to work for it. You have to prove yourself for it. Edit if you want respect among editors, chat if you want to be friends with everyone and blog if you want to prove your opinion's worth. No one will care if you leave the wiki tomorrow acting unwelcome cause there was nothing you did that will remind us of you. My edits might be stupid, my blogs might be idiotic and my image on chat might be non-serious but even despite of this all, I am sure there will be plenty of people who will remember me if something happens to me tomorrow .. and this applies in both this wiki and in real-life. We can remember you as a hero or as a criminal .. now you decided what you want to be. its your decision to choose. 21:42, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

ATTITUDE PROBLEMS!? Are you kidding me? What about the attitude problems I got from users like SeaTerror? How is that justified? The most I ever did was revise a long sentence. At least when I did my edits, I gave a counterargument at EVERY responses that counter mine, and they were logical. Did anyone remember the edit on Nami's Misc page about her being of two pirate crews? Even when I used Chopper as a simple example, they combat it by saying it was relevant because she was an important character. So I picked to other important characters in the series as a another example: Jinbe and Arlong, both who belonged to TWO different pirate crews as well, but even then no one listened, not even you DancePowderer, because you protected that page and undid my edit too. You guys act before you think, and I get the every wiki is different, but logic dictates false info, does it not? How is that right? Because, like I said before, I gave a reason for EVERYTHING I did, like a proper user.-- Ninja Sheik  21:45, May 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w422/imhungry4444/tumblr_lxuv0qbnvM1r2kjh3.gif YOU GO GIRL :'( 22:20, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Being late to the discussion, I'm just going to respond to the topic. As a new user who joined around the same time as you OPN, I can wholeheartedly disagree with this assertion. The community at large has been nothing but friendly and welcoming. Yes, there have been several hostilities over the last few months, but that only happens when a new user appears and demands that things be changed to their way. Aggressive edits tend to get an aggressive response. And there have been a lot of new, aggressive editors who will not budge on their beliefs. This, is our wiki's problem. And veteran users have learnt to deal with it swiftly before it gets out of hand, and at times, quite harshly. Is this harshness undeserving? No, because these new users have made it clear they're here to do things in a certain way, a way that directly conflicts with long-standing policies. The people here are always friendly to begin with, but if you try and cross them like in any other situation, or simply start badly - don't be surprised if you suffer some backlash. 05:51, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Nobody does anything to a new member unless they did something to deserve it. Apparently trolling is being uncivil now and deserves a ban. Shit, even DP has trolled. Everybody on this wikia trolls at one point. You might as well ban the entire community. DP nailed what the problem was. Your big changes were removing valid information from articles like Ace's page. SeaTerror 06:06, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

I can't believe I am even commenting on this forum, all I have done reading this and sit back and laughed. I am loving the fact you only mentioned new users that either now respected members of the community or have come into this wiki expecting everything to go their way. I still cant believe anyone stuck up for either Ethelion or Kaitlyn, both of which are prime examples of what I just said. They both came in expecting things to go their way and went and had a cry to an admin after losing the argument. Ethelion's edits were just plain unessary and were against image guidlines also after asking her a number of times to stop she proceded, and then began to acuse myself and others of swearing. So apparently by saying his picture wasn't necessary and honestly a shit picture, I was acused by her of being hostile and abusive. GROW UP PRINCESS IT'S THE INTERNET NOT CHURCH. And kaitlyn well is honestly just plain hipocritical, acusing others of the same things she was doing and not listening to any warning that were given. I would also like to add that we all were nice to both these users until they decided not to listen and cause unneeded isues. So you expect us to not say anything to these people and let them do whatever they want, you should win wiki contributer of the year for that one. I would also just like to add, if you come to a new community of any king wether it be a school, sports team or this wiki. you follow, learn from those around you don't just came in do what you want and take charge (in which many do) all those users have done is wasted peoples time. OPN and NinjaSheik grow up you both obviously have phsycological issues from being bullied out in the real world (No insult intended), so that is why you go to a place were you can behave I guess as an alpha, were your size, things like that don't matter. Stop make it obvious by telling everyone that your both experienced, yeah ok we get it that dosen't make you better than everyone else. So go ahead have a go at me, rage at me with your intelegent words, become hostile towards me, acuse me of what you want I don't really care. If you don't like the people here then leave if you wish, just stop complaining about every little thing please. 07:30, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

If I have understood the topic correctly, its mainly discussing two matters :

I think the above does not apply onto me because I am not an (article) editor myself. I do not know whether if the community does resist to the new changes or not, so best I leave this to those who knew the subject well.
 * 1) how the (article editing) community reacted to changes brought about by new article editors
 * 2) (assuming the community were resistant to the change) the new editors (who brought about the changes) were being treated poorly by the community

Speaking about myself in this wikia, I think I am one of the luckier ones who has yet receive any hostility from any member of the community as yet. All were generally kind to me and thoughout the short 4 months period here, I am on good terms with a good number of people as well as being on common ground with the majority but has yet had unpleasant relationship with any.

My blogs were generally well received and enjoyed. I do not get much (if not at all) sarcastic or offending comments directed at me personally. And usually when I happen to drop by the chat, I was well greeted and had good talks within. Overall my experience to-date was a fun, happy, enjoyable, and entertaining one. So for me as a new user here, everyone returned the same (level of) respect as I had for them, hence no hostility felt.

Therefore, apology NOT accepted, THT-kun, because there is no reason to apologise for in the first place! ;-)

08:19, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

@KuroAshi98: Long-standing policies? Uh...didn't you guys say that you don't even have a proper Manuel of Style? I'm not basing my edits on edits that I've on other wikis, I'm basing it on what it's the proper format style of writing. Anyone where major in English like I do?

@SeaTerror: I didn't remove any valid information from Ace's page, I just reworded better to the article can still retains its focus on said character. If an article retains information about another character, then the article will lose its point of focus. Who old are you? Did you ever did a persuasive essay in school and teacher tells you that when writing on a specific topic, be careful not to stray to another point? It's not just essays, it also retains any other article or paper anyone is writing, like when journalists write on their topic their assigned to in a newspaper. And if everyone trolls here like you said, then isn't that a very contradiction on what wiki users are? Wikis have admin and mods to combat such things, yet the users here are trolling themselves? That really doesn't make sense.

@Straw Hat Boy: I don't know what exactly what that Ethelion person did, but I go agree with that fact that you guys use crude language to otherusers, like they don't feel insulted by it. New users need to be welcome without rudeness. This may be a shock for some you teenagers that likes to throw curse words 24/7, but words like that kinda sends a message to others on what person you are. I don't use curse words unless I'm angry and when I do use it, I use it appropriately. I'm not what the Ethelion did was, but try to explain it way that doesn't seem disrespectful to her. That's all I'm saying. I never consider myself of being an "alpha", I just have more experience because I probably edit on wikis longer or more than you have. Like I said before, I major in English, so I know the proper format styles when editing/writing an article, story, or etc. And please don't tell me to "grow up". I'm probably older than you, and I've been taught when dealing with an argument, one must not let one's emotions get the better of them and then response to said opposing party with a clear, logical answer. I'm perfectly understand what I'm doing and a give a reason for it. I never complained about "every little thing", either. Clearly, maybe you need to grow up to and talk without your emotions controlling you.-- Ninja Sheik  17:21, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * " Anyone where major in English like I do?" Seems legit
 * Oops, typo. Anyone here major in English like I do? That's what I get for typing in multiple places at the same time. Anyway, it is strange that the wiki doesn't put italics when referring to the One Piece name when writing articles or put italics when writing out a game's name. So I was wondering if anyone major in English. Most the users I spoke with are are around the ages 13 to 15, and since high schools students are high school students, you know that most of them don't pay attention in class, especially in classes when reading is involve and they doze off to sleep. But there are some students that really have creative minds and love English because they sharpen their skills. But since the wiki doesn't follow proper English format (which is likely due because there isn't a Manuel of Style here), I was wondering if anyone major in English.-- Ninja Sheik  18:17, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

You don't major in English because your grammar is so bad. SeaTerror 19:18, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, really? How? I get As one EVERY English test I ever had. No joke. So, how'd you figure I have bad grammar? Because of my little mistake with a "w" in my previous post? Oh, big whoop. I'm not writing an article or a story when I'm talking to you guys. You guys make mistakes in your post, too, not mention throw vulgar language left to right. And even if you're not referring to my post, then give me an example how my grammar is awful.-- Ninja Sheik  19:25, May 25, 2012 (UTC)