Talk:Daz Bonez

Bounty
Where does his 51,000,000 beri bounty come from? I don't remember it being mentioned, but it's on this page and the bounties page. --72.82.5.204 06:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Baroque Works mini-series. One-Winged Hawk 12:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I try to look around Baroque Works mini-series Ch. 359–413 but got nothing. please focus the position or chapter again because I think this is fake bounty.JGV 14:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Here it is again... someone put up the 51,000,000 bounty. Can someone tell me where the sources for this is exactly? Manga chapter? Anime episode? Mini-arc? Data books? Please, so I could determine whether to add this to the Bounties page, as well as add it to the total bounty of Baroque Works. Yatanogarasu 16:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it could be in chapter 217, page 14. The reason the bounty didn't show is probably due to a mistranslation. We should look at the original Japanese scan to confirm. Yatanogarasu 16:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No such amount exists for him. I think the origins of the fake bounty came from the German translation. The false amount came from Smoker and Tashigi sitting on the boat looking at the wanted posters of Luffy and Zoro. One-Winged Hawk 23:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

First Appearance
Shouldn't the first appearance be said to be Chapter 155? http://manga.bleachexile.com/one-piece-chapter-155-page-18.html


 * It's a unclear silhouette of him like when Sengoku thought of Jinbei. Its not like other characters like Hannyabal as the character himself is not actually participating.Mugiwara Franky 07:11, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Real name for page title
Shouldn't the title of this page be changed to "Daz Bones" instead? That is his real name (just like "Sir Crocodile" instead of "Mr. 0" and "Nico Robin" instead of "Miss All-Sunday"). We should also do the same for Mr. 3 (Gial Dino) and Mr. 2 Bon Kurei (Bentham). --Yatanogarasu 2:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Mr. 1's code name is for the moment the most used name when referring to the guy like Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu.10:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Then what about Edward Newgate and Monkey D. Luffy? Everyone knows them as "Whitebeard" and "Straw Hat", respectively, but their original name is used instead. Yatanogarasu 20:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The thing is with Edward Newgate and Luffy is that they are more known by those names by most. For Mr. 2, Bentham is apparently not much known or being used to refer to him.Mugiwara Franky 07:06, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Despite these character being more known by their Baroque Works codenames, they should be referred to by their real names for two reasons:
 * 1. Baroque Works is disbanded, hence these titles don't exist anymore, they rather act as nicknames
 * 2. For organisation and formality, they should not be referred by their nicknames/epithetsunsigned by Sables


 * Baroque Works maybe disbanded but a majority of characters still use the titles to refer to some of the members. This is apparently even more so by a significant number of people who read One Piece. Using their real names maybe more formal but for some of these guys, it may make them less identifiable to a certain degree as their real names are not that common.Mugiwara Franky 14:21, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed! Renaming the articles to names that the fans, nor the characters use is simply backwards and unhelpful to anyone. This is starting to be a real problem. Memnarc 02:40, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

So, if Crocodile starts calling him "Daz Bones" regularly instead of "Mr. 1", then do we change? Yatanogarasu 23:24, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should. The only time he was recently called Mr.1 was during Impel Down in his introduction box. Crocodile called him Daz or Bones from then on. I think it should be changed. The same should go for Mr. 3 and Mr. 2's pages as well.DancePowderer 00:15, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

The Admirals too? They do call him Sakazuki more than Akainu. Yatanogarasu 00:29, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Hold off on the admirals, at least for now. I've only noticed them getting called by their proper names a lot in the anime, not so much in the manga.DancePowderer 00:40, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree with Galdino. He is still often called Mr. 3 and his hairstyle is also a permanent reminder of his alias. Tho it is true that they completely moved away from Mr. 2 and are slowly building up Daz Bones instead of Mr. 1

I just checked Mr. 2's page, there it says Mr. 2 Bon Kurei. This way would cover both, but looks somewhat strange if you ask me. For the admirals, I agree with DancePowderer, it is really more an anime thing.Jinbe 00:57, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with renaming this page as Daz Bones, it's what he's being called all the time now. And maybe we should change "Mr. 2 Bon Kurei" to simply Bon Kurei. No one calls him Mr. 2 anymore anyway. (Mr. 3 should remain as Mr. 3)  YazzyDream  01:38, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Then shouldn't Mr. 2 be called Bentham, since that is his real name? He hasn't been mentioned in a while, so we could get away with using it. As for Mr. 3, as much as I like consistency, I agree it should be kept for now.DancePowderer 03:29, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should go for the name that is known by most and is used frequently. Since Mr. 2 is usually called "Bon chan" or "Bon boy" (by Iva) we should go with Bon Kurei. The only one who called him Mr. 2 lately is, coincidently, Mr. 3. For Bentham... I can't remember anyone calling him that name - except for the "introduction" at Impeldown.

On top of that, If we start to strictly change the alias to the real name, we have to do it with the admirals and other characters too. The most prominent example would be Franky -> Cutty Flam. So, I agree with Dancepowderer that consistency is good, but in some cases we would cause mild confusion if we go strictly that way.

In addition, I think the real (but not often used) name really starts to shine if it is mentioned in the introducing text of an article instead of the header. It causes a nice "Aha!" - effect, something a wikia can only welcome.Jinbe 14:15, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

The best thing to do with characters is to use the name they are currently going by. Since Baroque Works is over, Mr. 1 has been refered to as Daz Bones, and his name has been more commonly used than the other named officer agents, so at the very least we should change Mr. 1 to Daz Bones and bring the other characters' name changes up for discussion on their respective talk pages. This would exclude the Admirals, since they have been refered to by their aliases, as well as Franky since he said he changed his name. This would include Mr. 2, Mr. 3, and Miss Doublefinger.DancePowderer 16:11, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Then let's get a forum started. Here: Forum:Characters' Real Name. Yatanogarasu 19:08, January 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * And I know this isn't relevant, but I have another forum I want to bring up, in which nobody seemed to have noticed: Forum:Whitebeard's Powers Gallery. Yatanogarasu 19:10, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

So is anyone going to make the move? And if so, can you tell me how to change all the "Mr. 1" in the text into "Daz Bones", because retyping them out is a real hassle. Yatanogarasu 07:54, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

I can change the Mr. 1 lines on his article if you change the header to Daz Bones. I would do that myself as well, but I don't dare to touch that yet (because of redirections and stuff, not sure how it will affect the article)Jinbe 10:19, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

That horrible anime's difference

 * Should we add the trivia that during the Marineford arc his arms became swords and his hands disappeared, while in the manga and during the Arabasta arc they didn't? --Meganoide 23:12, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Bounty hunter?
I think there is a misunderstanding/mistranlation concerning Daz Bones' past-profession in West Blue:

(for references see One Piece Manga Vol.24, Ch.217 and One Piece Anime Ep. 130) (Note: I used the same name for Daz Bones)

So basically the English translation you can find on the online manga reading sites omitted the bounty hunter part. Of course the other two can be wrong, but I think that Daz Bones wasn't a professional assassin, rather a bounty hunter known as "the assassin" or "the killer". Which means that "assassin" is only an epithet for his cruelty, not his profession. If that's true he is under the wrong category and needs to be put in the bounty hunter category, also he will become, with Zoro, another notable example of bounty hunter. This can be view as another parallelism between Luffy/Crocodile (captain, pirate, pirate king dream) and Zoro/Daz Bones (swordman, bounty hunter, first fighter), well but this is a conjecture.

Before I'll start editing, give me your opinions. leviathan_89 13:52, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

If this helps, here is the german version of that conversation:

Smoker: ...und in Arbana hat er Jazz Boner zur Strecke gebracht. (and in Arubana he defeated Daz Bones)

Tashigi: Jazz Boner?? Das war doch dieser Killer? (Daz Bones?? This killer?)

Smoker: Er war der berüchtigste Kopfgeldjäger im West Blue. Bei der Baroque Firma wurde er Mr. 1 genannt. (he was a notorious bounty hunter in the west blue. In baroque works he was known as Mr. 1)

Hope this helps.Jinbe 14:21, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it can't be a coincedence. Since only the English Translation doesn't mention the bounty hunter part, I think it's clear he was a bounty hunter and not an assassin (maybe he was an assassin in the Baroque Works, but not in West Blue), so I will start editing and correcting. If the Japanase version will contradict me, I'll revert all the editing. leviathan_89 18:47, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Kind of. Here's a rough trans of Jpnese to Eng: Well basically, that tells us "killer" is his epithet. You know, like the supernova, but in japanese. *( Not to be confused with assassin.  Assassin is "暗殺者" which is "Ansatsusha" in romanization form. Smoker says "Koroshiya殺し屋" which means killer.) JapaneseOPfan 21:16, February 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * (you wrote east blue in the translation... do you mean west blue, don't you?)

I rewatched the anime episodes and in the ep. 118 (near the end) Zoro said: "I vaguely recall a bounty hunter well known in West Blue. Am I right? They called you a truly magnificent and notorious assassin..." I'm looking for the same sentence in the manga, but at this point it seems to me that Daz Bones was a notorious bounty hunter in West Blue, known as "the killer" (maybe because he killed his targets, in fact a "Wanted" person is "dead or alive") and in Baroque Works maybe he did also assassin mission, in fact he seems to have, with Miss Doublefinger, knowledge of assassination.

So at this point, my thought on this are that he was a bounty hunter and also an assassin (through Baroque Works). I have already made some changes, but tell me if you agree with this. leviathan_89 21:45, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

What you're looking for is in chapter 195, but you really shouldn't trust the subbs. If you need, I can trans. that section too.

I don't really want to talk about what he was during the Baroque Works period, but I just need to strain the fact that he is a killer, not an assassin in his bounty hunter days. That's all. JapaneseOPfan 21:51, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, than for the moment I'll leave him as bounty hunter with knowledge in assassination, known as "the killer". It's kinda confused this topic, sorry for make it this way. leviathan_89 22:27, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

All other sources use assassin. Just because your translation uses "killer" doesn't make it right. There's also no evidence he was a bounty hunter. SeaTerror 23:14, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well we are an original, accurate source! We don't depend on "all other sources". We depend on the raw. What Oda wrote. JapaneseOPfan 23:19, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

So you're saying your translation is more accurate than everybody else? SeaTerror 23:46, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well I may sound rude, but yes! I mean, "killer" and "assassin" are two different things. Same concept in Japanese. To be clear, I'm pretty sure all the other manga sites translate from CHINESE→English, looking at the speech bubbles that our fellow translators miss sometimes. I translated straight from the raw volume. As for the anime, they just probably used what was seen on the manga sites. JapaneseOPfan 00:04, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Nice. Arrogant and conceited. So its safe to assume you are wrong then. SeaTerror 05:02, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Please, chill out for a second. I didn't mean it like that; my wording came out all wrong. I'm sorry. I've sent Klobis a message to clear the whole thing out for us, so please don't get mad at me. We'll clear it all out later when Klobis responds. I'm real sorry for being rude. JapaneseOPfan 05:08, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

SeaTerror, please be civil. These issues are a lot easier to resolve when all the people involved approach the matters calmly and are polite and courteous to each other.DancePowderer 05:15, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Klobis. Your input is appreciated.DancePowderer 05:45, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) He was a bounty hunter in West Blue.
 * 2) When he was a bounty hunter, he was known as the "killer" (koroshiya). --Klobis 05:34, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Problem solved. By the way- Holy worms! I just noticed a mistake of mine above. Yeah, I already fixed it to avoid confusion, but I accidentaly put "East Blue" instead of west blue in the romanization/english section in the table above. I don't know what I did (I'm pretty sure I put west blue..) but I just needed to make it all clear. Sorry guys. Well, the discussion has officially ended. Good night everyone. JapaneseOPfan 05:54, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I just read the chapter where Tashigi and Smoker talked about Bones. It appears that the phrase "the killer" was taken in an occupational context instead of an in an epithetical context. It would theoretically be the same as Tashigi saying "Sanji!? The Black Leg!?", which is easier to discern as Black Leg cannot double as an occupation. We then mistook what Smoker was refering to when he said "That was his name in the West Blue. Here, he was called Mr. 1", as a contrast between Daz Bones and Mr. 1, instead of a contrast between the "killer" and and Mr. 1. He was refering strictly to the epithets, and not his actual name. I'm not surprised one bit that this was taken out of context the way it was. If this hadn't been brought up I wouldn't have caught it in a million years.DancePowderer 06:45, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad that this topic is settled, I'm sorry I've caused an edit war. leviathan_89 09:12, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

It's not your fault, you only did what you thought was supposed to be done. Don't blame yourself.DancePowderer 14:14, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Bounty
since we used the One Piece art exhibition to write ace's bounty, and since we written in Reyleigh's about the unknown bounty, shouldn't Mr.1 also have it written, he apears beside ace's but i can't see the number. and the same also goes for Van Augur, Mr. 3 and ivankov, big mom , gol d. roger , blackbeard , lucky roo and kuro (who is not marked as captured anymore) Law1345 05:41, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Devil Fruit
Is Daz Bones really a Paremecia? I haven&apos;t got too far in too the series but from what I saw he seemed more like a logia. I&apos;m probably wrong but I wanted to bring up this matter just in case :3  Toto Blue (talk) 13:17, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Confirmation here. He doesn't transform into an element, so he's a Paramecia, not a Logia. 13:37, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Assassin
I was looking at recent edits to the assassin page, and wondering why Daz Bones wasn't listed as one. Then I looked on this talk page and saw a lengthy section, based on just one line of the manga, that came to the conclusion that 殺し屋/Koroshi-ya was an epithet in the context, rather than a profession. I disagree with this conclusion, and having looked through the manga and databooks can see more than enough evidence to overturn it. However, given that talk is 5 years old at this point, it needs a fresh start rather than a bump.
 * There's a lot of discussion above out the differences between "killer" and "assassin". But 殺し屋 is listed on this wiki as the kanji for assassin, and is used to describe the Funk Brothers, who are clearly professional hit men, not just murderers. The dictionary lists it as "professional killer" or "hit man", but the wikipedia page also uses it to refer to assassins, listing media like Assassination Classroom in the pop culture section. Assassination Classroom itself also uses the term as the most common way of saying assassin, when describing its professionals as well as the children, as you would have heard if you've been watching the anime recently.
 * This can be distinguished from the Vinsmoke Family, who were referred to as 人殺し - killer or murderer. The difference is that the 屋 of 殺し屋 denotes it as being a profession.
 * Chapter 195 pg 8:　Zoro: 剣士じゃなけりゃ「発掘屋」かよ！ Daz: 「殺し屋」だ
 * Zoro: If you're not a swordsman, then you must be a "excavator"! Daz: I am an "assassin".
 * Zoro uses "swordsman" and "excavator" as occupations, or referring to his way of fighting. Daz is clearly responding in kind, giving his profession. It makes no sense for him to randomly blurt out an epithet in that context.
 * Databook Deep Blue pg 102: 〝西の海〟で名を上げた凄腕の殺し屋:　"He gained a reputation in West Blue as a skilled assassin." There's no dispute here - clearly it can't be an epithet in the context.

The only two sources uses in the discussion above appear to be the Smoker/Tashigi conversation in Chapter 217 and Databook Red pg 72. Both of them are ambiguous, and the reasoning above relies on the assumption that being an assassin and a bounty hunter are mutually exclusive, which I disagree with - bounties are "dead or alive".

Whether you call him a hit man or an assassin, the outcome is the same - he's a professional referred to in the same manner as the Funk Brothers, not just a killer or murderer. In that sense the current state of both his page and Assassin page and related templates are inconsistent with the rest of the wiki.

Just because something's sat on this wiki for several years unchallenged doesn't automatically mean it's right, especially if the original discussion didn't consider all of the evidence.

'''TL;DR: Koroshi-ya can and does mean assassin, not just killer. Deep Blue explicitly uses it in a professional context, and Daz's comment in Chapter 195 makes far more sense as an occupation than as an epithet.''' 107.6.121.34 10:30, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

I had no idea this was actually an issue until this popped up. Yeah, Daz is a legit assassin, dunno why anyone thought otherwise.--Xilinoc (talk) 15:50, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

Well the previous discussion was brought up because originally he was categorized and described on the wiki as an assassin and NOT as a bounty hunter. So, first of all, let's separate the two points:


 * Is (was) he a bounty hunter? From what you said I take you are not objecting this.
 * Is (was) he an assassin? At the time of that discussion we basically considered only the dialogue between tashighi and smoker. I don't recall there were much doubts on the translation of "Koroshi-ya" but rather, as you said, in its context because, unless is different in English or Japanese, if you kill some people I can "accuse" you of being a killer/assassin although I don't necessarily mean it as you are a professional assassin. Thanks for bringing other sources to the table, IMO the line from chap. 195 kinda settle that at least he considered himself to be an assassin. Well but at this point what differentiate "brutal" bounty hunters from assassins though? Whatever it was just a bounty hunter who liked to kill his targets or a professional assassin I don't think there are much problems on consider him both at this point, unless Kolbis or other Japanese-speaking people have anything to object.

Bounty Hunters don't necessarily kill their targets. In fact, they are encouraged not too as dead targets have their bounty rewards cut by 30%. Won't stop a particularly sadistic hunter from doing it anyway as they might be interested more in killing than the money.

Also, bounty hunters usually act independently, whereas an assassin usually works for someone, but it's entirely possible for somebody to be both. KingCannon (talk) 18:09, March 7, 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. On the surface, Baroque Works was an organization of bounty hunters. However, Mr. 1 was definitely deployed less publicly as an assassin. Keep them both.

Though it seems we should remove his epithet if it really is just an occupation. 02:44, March 15, 2016 (UTC)