Forum:Superhuman-strength: Deletion

I will make it quick for a change, I propose to delete our "beloved" Superhuman-strength article. (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Superhuman_Strength).

There have been several attempts in the past to get rid of this troublesome page, but they always failed in the end because it was (apparently) a named ability/condition by Oda and thus needed an own article.

The truth is: Kairiki is simply used as an adjective to describe strength. Not necessarily superhuman, not necessarily monstrous. You can technically call the bodybuilder next door a kairiki. It is not defined. And by loosing its name, it lost its right to deserve an own page and should follow the example of Superhuman-speed and Superhuman-endurance. Deletion.

Apart from that, I will list the known reasons why this article is, in my opinion, the shame of this usually so objective wiki:


 * It suggests that the listed characters all play in the same league of power, since there is only one category and no further distinction. This especially irritates visitors that are not as informed as us. Luffy, Garp, Whitebeard, Miss Monday, Zoro, Jozu. Can you spot the flaw?

I generally understand that there seems to be a huge desire (especially between the younger editors) to point at supercool & superhuman feats, but we can do that in a objective way on the corresponding character articles. There is no need to create pages like that, unless Oda provides us with official information and naming.
 * This article was (and still is) the cause for constant edit ping-pongs between users. Not surprising, since the majority of the listed characters are there because of speculation and editor opinions. A famous example (albeit funny): Ivankov is super strong because he can lift his huge head. Another one? Marco kicks Aokiji a great distance without the help of gravity. Without the help of gravity. Simply embarrassing, if this would have been the first and only page I visited I would have labeled this wiki a trashy fansite.
 * Next I quote Sff9, because I can't describe it better: "It's exactly like someone decided to make a "beautiful person" category, adding people in it only if they were textually qualified as "beautiful" in the manga."

I hope we can finally get rid of this page. I will open a formal vote after gathering a few more opinions. Thanks for participating, 23:08, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
And before someone asks, Jopfan provided the necessary translation infos, many thanks for that. 23:08, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

I say we lose both the page and the category. 23:13, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

I know this page is a real troublesome thing, but if "Kairiki" (Japanese romanization) exists, doesn't it make the page official in name? If anything, the only thing we do NOT do is list out who has the strength, but rather just explain what "Superhuman Strength" is. 02:18, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Of course, eliminating the page altogether does help sort out the vagueness of the whole ordeal, so I'm also up for that option. 02:19, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind if we kept the page and just cut a lot out of it, but what I really want to get rid of is the category. 02:39, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should keep both and still add characters to it. There are some very obvious examples such as Whitebeard who belong on the page or with the category. SeaTerror 03:18, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

If we kept them, then the arguments would still persist and the issue won't go away. If we just explain how to get it or something, then the reader can just figure out what characters it applies to and draw their own conclusions instead of having a list of characters that sparks argument. 03:25, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Then lock the article so IPs can't edit it. SeaTerror 03:29, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but add characters you say, people kept arguing Hancock being a user or not, above others. Really too vague to keep. 05:48, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, and it's not really an effective category if it applies to everyone. It's like making a Characters category. 06:19, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

That's really too bad for all the reference work (character A is kairiki because he has been qualified as such in Chapter XXX... Character B is kairiki because he outpowered character A...) but it's really pointless. This page makes it appear like "kairiki" is a kind of power like haki or devil fruits, with a clear definition, which it is not. People calling others "kairiki" does not mean they are in a special category, they just say "OMG he's super strong!!!!1". This makes no sense to have such a page (unless it is worked out as Jinbe proposed on the talk page, listing ways to achieve a super strength) and such a category.

I say definitely remove the category and the list of "users". I understand that there are some "obvious" examples that should be mentioned, but as pointed out before, the category suggests that the listed user are all in the same league, not to mention the troubles of deciding if a character has it or not. If you want to mention some characters, maybe you can do it as examples of superhuman strength (like Whitebeard stopping a ship). For the page itself, I'm ok with keeping it, but I think it should be treated the same way as superhuman speed&endurance, so since I don't think anybody wants to revive them, then it should deleted as well.

@Yata

No it doesn't make it an official name, it is still not defined. It is used as an adjective to describe strong people (but this could be any level, not necessarily superhuman). And more important: It's not from Oda.

See, it basically just lost its "name" (which it technically never had). Think about it, do we create a page for "idiots in One Piece" because some characters were called a baka at one point? Should we list them as well? Maybe together with ways how to become a baka?

@Seaterror

It surprises me that you are in favor of this article. You have something against observations in the trivia section, but speculating on the abilities of a character is ok? Even giving it a name that isn't confirmed or even exactly defined? What would you like to call it? Monstrous strength? Superhuman strength? Above average-strength? Characters that are stronger than Usopp?

It's not like we would stop calling characters strong, if they did something noteworthy it will be still on the their corresponding articles. We just stop playing Oda by introducing categories that do not exist.

@Sff9

Well, true I suggested to revamp the page, but that was prior to the talk and clarification with Jopfan. I thought that kairiki is indeed a named condition by Oda. But it is not.

@Leviathan

Exactly, a page like that basically opens pandoras box. What would keep people from creating a page for every crap? Super speed, super endurance, super beauty etc.

@Dancepowderer

Well, I don't have anything to add to your comments, but I thought it would be rude to reply to everyone but you. Good that you bring the category problem up, of course it needs to be deleted as well.

Anyway, we have brilliant and objective articles that cover everything that is noteworthy and named. Rokushiki, Devil fruits, the strength of certain races like Giants and Fishmen, we even perfectly cover the extraordinary abilities of Humans. On top we have individual remarks on character pages.

Why is there a need to invent a name and mash information into one vague article? 13:37, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

As I said, I'm for articles-equality, so if we keep super strength we should also create super speed, super endurance and let people create useless page like beauty and such. So, at this point, delete it. And that page was born from miss Monday attack, right? Well, all characters name their techniques in different-fantasy names, and I think that was indented as a joke as a comparison between her "strength" and a "real" super-human strength (Zoro's).

P.S.: I'm TOTALLY OK with creating the "baka page"! Together with the way to become one... ; )


 * Agree with deletion of both the page and the category..and lol creating Super Beauty page!