Forum:Chapter and Episode Titles

Shouldn't the chapter and episode articles use the titles instead of just Chapter and Episode? Examples such as Chapter 1 and Episode 1 could be changed to the titles on the Chapters and Volumes and the Episode Guide articles. SeaTerror 19:16, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
No, that would be a real hassle. "Chapter 1" is easier to remember than "Romance Dawn - The Dawn of the Adventure" or "Chapter 1 - Romance Dawn - The Dawn of the Adventure", and people might forget the chapter name, but the number is so much easier to remember. Yatanogarasu 19:26, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I would be willing to change them all myself. Also its not a hassle because Chapter 1 could redirect to the episode title. So if somebody searches for Chapter 1 the "Chapter 1 - Romance Dawn - The Dawn of the Adventure" article would pop up. SeaTerror 19:34, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * The chapters and episodes were intentionally named like that because there was a conflict between translations. FUNimation and Viz were brought up but in the end it was decided to use what we have now. At first it wasn't like that and every chapter and episode had "proper" titles, that's for the record. You might notice that some of the old names' are still apparent in the 'next chapter' links. As Yatanogarasu has said what we have now is easier to use, plus, we also have the Chapters and Volumes and Episode Guide respectively for navigation. The old redirects are still in place too but you might want to add new ones for the chapters and episodes released afterwards. MasterDeva 20:04, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, what we have now is much easier. Numbers are easier to remember than titles. We should keep things the way they are.DancePowderer 20:17, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I mentioned all the above because what we have now is extremely helpful when adding references, I can't begin to express how much time I've saved because of it. It's very practical to use and I imagine that other editors, who have worked on adding citations, feel the same. MasterDeva 20:28, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how its much easier. Sure it just says Chapter or Episode but its just as easy to have them as the titles. Also as I said If somebody searched for a specific chapter/episode it would redirect to the chapter/episode title. SeaTerror 20:20, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * That why I said to add redirects if you want, other than that we have proper pages to use if you want to search for the names. MasterDeva 20:30, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

But why make something that isn't really necessary? Redirecting the chapters to their titles would just be adding something vestigial to the site. I'm still against it. It would be more organized if we keep the numbers as the titles for the articles.DancePowderer 20:34, February 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't say to change the titles of the articles, I merely stated that it would be good to add redirects. It's not like they are harmful to the wikia, just one redirect per chapter/episode like we have now. Besides, all the pages of chapters and episodes in the wiki, have their official and unofficial titles written on their infobox. Simply changing the titles would be redundant though, that's for sure. MasterDeva 21:05, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think it was unnecessary to have changed it in the first place. I did say I would be willing to change them all. I think it would make the wikia look better. Lots of wikias put the episode/chapter titles instead of just Chapter X. Also I don't see how it would make it more organized by just saying Chapter X/Episode X. SeaTerror 22:53, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion 2
I'm bumping this. I really am willing to go through all the work. SeaTerror 02:00, May 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm Ok with redirects but strongly against the title changes :)

Redirects already exist. What's wrong with title changes? It makes no sense to just use Chapter 1 or Episode 1. SeaTerror 15:12, May 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Having it as anything BUT chapter 1, episode 1, etc is a crappy idea if you mind me saying. We tried this before and transferred back. We used K-F fansubs translations for episodes, I think Stephen's translations for chapters though I'm not 100% sure. It led to problems... Because... Aside from Chapter 1 "Romance Dawn" the rest of the episodes and chapters were difficult. Some had more then one translation and deciphering that right one was hard. It didn't work and we ended up abandoning it. I understand other wikias use it, I understand there are some that are willing to change the chapters and episodes over... BUT its just not worth it. Plus, at least with "Chapter 1" everyone's on the same page. If theres one idea I disapprove of you've found it.


 * Plus, on wikipedia we were forced to use 4Kids translations, imagine having to make everything comply with what they produced... You have4 to pick a translation for the title and when its a bad one.. ¬_¬' One-Winged Hawk 13:18, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

I looked at that discussion before. You know what I noticed? The person who started the discussion completely vanished after getting his way of getting the episode titles removed. It seemed to have worked perfectly fine with episode titles. He was the only one who complained about it. Using K-F translations is the proper way to do it since the episode guide and every single episode page uses their translations (for what they are up to). As I said I'm willing to do ALL the work myself. Its just renaming a bunch of stuff which isn't that hard. SeaTerror 17:06, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Its was a big job, and even if I was in support or neutral then, I'm very against it now. It was a pill to revert those after they were abandoned and even K-F gets the titles wrong. They also haven't caught up with the main series. Honestly, I think it invites too much problems. As I said, you can't go wrong with the current system, we all know where we stand with it and its simple stupid. And, if someone has the Vix version of the manga or Japanese, they can just look up the chapter number without us having to create every possible chapter name that is released. Sea, its not that I doubt your going to do it, its just its not needed to happen. Everyones simple stupid right now and pretty much anyone can cope with it. Adding names only makes things complex. One-Winged Hawk 17:20, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Where did they get the title wrong? They are caught up a bunch and we can use the other good ones until they are caught up. By the logic of not having episode titles then the episode guide should all be renamed to episode 1 and the Chapters and Volume article to Chapter 1 and so on. I already said they can look up the episode number by entering the actual episode number. Like I said I saw the discussion it didn't fit then because only one person was against having fansub titles. Everything else uses fansub stuff yet episodes and chapters should be exempt? SeaTerror 18:32, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * If you want to get picky, by all means then we should be using Funimations translations... Their offical and not a fandub. The point is that why change what works and if there are episodes or chapters without no.s, they should be changed back to "episode 1" and "chapter 1" format. ^_- One-Winged Hawk

Not at all. This wikia uses fansub terms and episode titles. Just look at any episode and the title under Episode 1 and so on uses the fansub title. It worked perfectly fine before the change. Also if I saw that I wouldn't change it. I was talking about the episode guide and chapters and volume articles anyway. SeaTerror 20:24, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, it didn't work fine, it was annoying to work with, and the constant redirects meant it was pointless. If your going to have DOZENS of pages redirecting, you might as well just have the original name to begin with. Redirects linking pages should be avoided not relied upon, their there only for the instances here and there were name changes occured and pages got missed, or because there was more then one name for something. In this case hundreds of pages will be redirecting constantly, no offence but thats sloppy editing SeaTerror. Even on wikipedia theyu try to avoid this kind of thing, if it happens, it happens, but they don't like it. One-Winged Hawk 21:22, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yes it did work fine. All you have to do is enter the chapter you are looking for. Sloppy editing is not using episode titles like other wikias do. Also that is incredibly untrue. If Wikipedia has a episode at all then they use the name of the episode as a title. SeaTerror 22:19, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, here I come butting into the conversation. I've read the whole forum and I'm sorry but this whole concept is stupid. Redirects are okay because they don't appear in the activity feed, plus they are not harmful at all to this place, but the whole renaming process is just a pointless bunch of crap. Here's another good reason as to why we shouldn't rename especially the chapters. There are MANY chapters in the entire series right now that are the same names as the title of articles in the wikia, (For example Chapter 238 is called Heaven's Gate, and there is a page called Heaven's Gate as well.) and the whole disambiguation page thing is a pain in the butt. As long as we have redirects, people will have no problem finding the page, plus the chapter/episode pages all HAVE the titles in the articles themselves as well as for the infobox title, so it's not like anything is confusing. Renaming and finding the correct translations is just a waste of our time that brings up more pointless conflict. 23:22, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

The way it was done before was Chapter number then chapter title after such as Chapter 1 - Romance Dawn. You want to know why the change wasn't originally needed? Because the person who asked for it never came back to the wikia again after getting his way. There wouldn't be any conflicts because you all fail to read what I have been saying. The wikia ALREADY uses fansubs/scanlation titles for EVERYTHING. Read the fucking Episode Guide article. SeaTerror 23:32, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay now no need to get all harsh there. Adding both makes the title of the article extremely long, and plus as I have said, I don't want any new conflict on the title translation; if you have noticed, a few chapter/episode titles have been changed by random editors here and there, and plus nobody really needs this pointless job to be done. Are you going to take full responsibility when random people start arguing over the titles and multiple edit wars start occuring? I'm sorry, but since we've been fine the way things were, there is no need to make each title so complicated unless someone just comes up and starts complaining like crazy about it. 23:39, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Yes I will. It never happened before except when scanlators themselves screwed up which is rare depending on the group. Oh so you're fine with how they were originally changed? A random person started complaining and then got his way and left the wikia right after it. SeaTerror 00:10, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

Seaterror could you possibly link the old thread, as I can't find it, so we can read the arguments given there?

Forum:Episode_Page_Discussion I thought there was another one. It seems the actual discussion for episode/chapter titles is closer to the bottom of the page. SeaTerror 01:03, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, here, let me get this straight. I don't think anyone would take their time to actually look up Episode titles. Besides, I was looking more at the Chapters which some have same titles as articles in this wikia, which will force us to make disambiguation pages if we rename them, which is just pointless. Otherwise for the episodes, don't rush to do that process; we will properly have to vote in order to change major things like this, although I have a feeling not many will participate even if one was held. 23:50, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

Again that is why the redirects would exist. Also you didn't read the comment at all. They would be titled Chapter 1 - Romance Dawn and so on. The entire point is we use fansub and scanlation titles already for everything else. There is absolutely no reason why the episodes/chapters should be different. SeaTerror 01:42, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Yes I did read your post. I still find this doesn't have much meaning... are we doing this because most other wikias have episode/chapter titles as the article title? And again, yes I did reread the whole forum. Please state (if you did not already) right here why there is the need to do this when all is fine the way it is. 02:15, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Every single episode and chapter number already uses fansub/scanlation translations. Yes other wikias do this and there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't do it too. SeaTerror 06:32, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

No reason to do this either... aren't we trying to be original here? I mean, you can hold a vote if you want and invite people to vote and see what we all want overall, but... 20:46, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, if you really want a "no arguments" title, your looking at making all the titles Japanese. Any dub or sub will have translation problems and honestly, fansubs are UNIOFFICAL and ILLEGAL sources, I really don't want to se the wikia rely on them. Its bad enough we have screenies from them in the past because thats all we could get hold of. Also, just because other wikias do it that way, doesn't mean we have to do it. At the very least, I don't want to rely on an ILLGEAL fansub anymore, we've got enough fans with enough sources now on the wikia to never have to rely on fansubs again. One-Winged Hawk 21:30, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Who cares if they are unofficial or illegal? Everybody on here read scanlations or watched fansubs at one point. Fansubs and scanlations will always be used on the wikia because once something is out it goes on the site right away. Especially scanlations of the newest chapter's translations and plot. I honestly see no reason at all why this was originally changed. SeaTerror 01:47, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sea, that is NOT the attitude to take. The wikia staff do not like this sort of thing as it is. Thats why we used to practice blanking speech bubbles because they WERE from scanalation groups, if the bubble was blank it gave credit to no one. ^_- One-Winged Hawk 06:32, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

I dont talk about official/unofficial stuff 'cause I honestly dont know much(or anything) .. but imagine the titles being 6-7 words long.. It doesnt look good and I'm certain that people will start complaining about the search box getting awkward :)--


 * @Roronoa: I've sort of already mentioned that, but apparently he will make all the redirects. Still, I agree. To add on, according to the wikians on the new chat feature, they like the Chapter 1 Episode 1 thing better than what we're discussing here.


 * @OWH: Never thought about the illegal fansub issue... but it's very true. Although many other things we are already doing are sort of illegal..., I do agree.


 * @SeaTerror: Fansubs are why everything becomes a mess here; it is true that people still use fansub around here but the only okay case here would be when no official translation exists. (Like the newest SBSs; we can't really help it on that part...) 03:57, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Really now? Look at the episode guide and chapters and volume pages. They all use fansub/scanlation translations. Nobody wants Viz or Funimation titles. Any SBS you mean. They've never been released by an official source. SeaTerror 04:14, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * A bold claim, true we don't want the names... But then again, its a touchy subject to use a illegal scanalation or sub as a source. As I said earlier, the only safe route would be Japanese. I do wish you'd let this issue go Sea, the wikia works fine and your wasting everyone's time on this, theres so far enough resistance against you and protest. If you really feel brave just go to vote already. But honestly, I think this will make life harder for everyone, not easier. And personnel perference, which this seems to be, is not a warrent for a change. I'm mostly an adviser these days, this is the advice I'm giving; if the users are only going to use the "chapter 1" format anyway, it really is a annoyance. >_< One-Winged Hawk 06:39, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, the use of subs this wikia in particular dates back to the 4Kids era when the offical dub gave little peace of mind. We had to find a more closer translation for names and that was often the subbing groups. Even they make mistakes, K-F's early translations translate fishmen as "mermen" and is was once on the list of "things to correct" (they had such a list once, so to speak containing a number of translation issues, of which Mihawk's name was also on it). It was the only source of faithful information. We use subbers screenies for the same reason, there was no major dubber release and 4Kids had editing the series (annoyingly) rendering their dubs useless, they were also hard to get hold of particularly for those (of which the main editors were) outside of the N.America region. Now FUNi has offically released a uncut dub, thats good enough and easy to get hold of, the circle of problems from 4Kids is gone.


 * For scans, its because their the first translation given to us, since Viz can be anything from 1-3 years behind the Japanese one and they edit frames now, rendering them useless. Its the only translation we have and they were forced to comply with 4Kids, and are only just abandoning this link even now. The practuices of this wikia were done for reasons. Just as choosing "Marine" over "Navy" when "Navy" was actually considered correct technically more so then "Marine" was a protest against 4Kids when we first set up, these practices no longer need to apply. There are healthier sources of information now and the fandoms never had it so good. This is why I point out scanalations are illegal, there is no need to rely on them 100% anymore and even in manga form, there are some who lean on the Japanese RAW over a scanlation group now.


 * The opinions of editors change with time. One-Winged Hawk 07:22, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Oh... really? I was pretty sure an official SBS translation gets released along with the English volumes... oh well, I'm sorry I'm not too into that stuff. And I did agree with you that fansubs exist here, I just said it's not very orderly. 04:23, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Viz translates SBS except for some sensitive ones like asking if Luffy's whatsos can stretch. One-Winged Hawk 06:39, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think one does. I don't buy it anyway. I don't see how using fansub/scanlation titles are disorderly at all. Many fansubbers/scanlators translate better than the "professional" companies. SeaTerror 04:28, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

True... but this is merely our opinion, so I think it'd be best if we just leave things alone. The majority of us (the community) like the titles and articles the way they are now, so we should leave it be what it is. 04:36, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

It really isn't a touchy subject. If people didn't want them then they wouldn't use them. The only wikia that uses official sources is the Naruto wikia. There's no point in going to a vote because hardly anybody has been discussing it. I don't see how it could possibly be an annoyance at all. They would get redirected to the proper page and they wouldn't care. Also you're wrong about the Navy and Marine thing. Since Oda had always used Marines on his uniforms that is obviously what he always wanted. I see no reason to reply on anything other than RAWs or scanlations when the "professional" companies usually have bad translations. Also if the Wikia staff cared they would shut the sites down who don't use official company information. SeaTerror 01:54, May 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * their marines on the uniform and "navy" in passing comment, but what does it matter Marine is in this context is JUST another word for navy, thats why I don't complain about it or push the issue. It doesn't matter, their saying "navy" no matter what language it is and "Marine" is too popular to crib. Also, fansubs are regarded as an "opinion" Vix translations "offical". Thats the difference, even though most often they ARE more correct their still speculation and in some cases there is more then one possible translation, with subs and scans we're left with their OPINION on whats correct either way be it offical or not. Thats why I say, the only way to truely avoid conflicts of OPINIONS between the groups is to go Japanese.


 * Either way this is a pointless execercise to convert hundreds of pages based on an OPINION and at least "Chapter 1" avoids that. Plus, redirecting all the other redirects should someones OPINION suddenly change is bloody messy and annoying. Trust me on that one. One-Winged Hawk 13:56, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

So the U.S. Marines is just another name for the U.S. Navy? Viz uses opinion too. Zolo instead of Zoro is the biggest example. Official translations are usually worse than fansub translations. Why do you think fansub/scanlation titles are used for everything? I don't see how it would be a mess especially when I said I would be willing to do all the work myself. It isn't that hard to move or redirect something. SeaTerror 15:57, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Somebody really needs to learn how to use an archive correctly. SeaTerror 00:31, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Might as well bump this for the hell of it. SeaTerror (talk) 04:36, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with SeaTerror. The articles would look much more professional if they were the actual title of the episode. If he's willing to do it, then why not let him?

Galaxy9000 (talk) 07:36, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Because the only 'actual title' of the chapter/episode is the Japanese title. Any English translation we use is only an approximation, which stands out particularly when idioms are used. Calling articles 'Chapter X' or 'Episode Y' simplifies navigation, reduces the number of disambiguation pages (eg. 'Zombie'), and reduces the number of useless redirects. It also reduces the number of edit wars over the article titles (if you take any given chapter, Mangapanda, Mangastream, Mangarule and Viz will all usually have a slightly different translation).


 * In any event, you and SeaTerror are the only people on this page who are for the idea of changing them all, and everyone else on this page has been strongly against it. There isn't any need for further discussion unless there is greater community support in favour of changing. Zodiaque (talk) 07:57, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course there are various translations from the various sites, but the same could be said about character names and places. We could use one of them, and ignore the rest. Also... only DP and JOP stll edit the wiki from the "everyone else on this page" you mentioned.
 * Galaxy9000 (talk) 08:38, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Gala, Zodiaque meant you two were the only people here willing to change all the titles. Also as he said, there are several chapters, episodes, and pages with the same title so we best leave everything as is. Disambiguation pages add to the confusion, and we already have more than enough redirect pages. The translation problem as well; the only solution would be to use the romanized title; all the more confusion. I get what you're getting at since most other wikis use actual titles, but we can always have a bit of our own originality, right? Leave it simple, no need to bombard the activity and whore edits. 11:00, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * to add on, episodes and chapters have much, MUCH longer titles than names, items, and places. We already have conflicts over a short name of a single character, so who knows what will happen if we change the page names to full titles. It's not just something simple, but a matter of length and interpretation of translators. 11:04, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agree with JOPF. There are plenty of good points against using titles. On the contrary, the only reason why ST and you say it should be changed is that it would "look better". I don't agree. Long-ass titles are ugly.

All we would need to do is use scanlation/fansub translations or original translations. Using an actual title is far better. SeaTerror (talk) 18:38, July 29, 2012 (UTC)