File talk:Issho Kneels Before Riku.png

Riku's cape
Well, without speculating or being of bad faith, I think Riku's symbol means something. Riku is a king (well, former at that moment) with a Jolly Roger, symbol of piracy! And he wore that as a gladiator in the Corrida Colosseum, it's not just a banal cape. The Admiral Fujitora is kneeling before a man with a Jolly Roger! He's asking him to be a king again, that adds another dimension to the situation (I know Fujitora don't care about that, he may not even know there is a Jolly Roger, but making Riku appears in plain clothes removes something in that case, I think). --Loiciol (talk) 21:32, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

The image isn't about the cape, it's about Fujitora and the Marines prostrate. The cape is negligible. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:46, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

Also Fujitora cannot see the mark, even if he did have vision he never faced Rikus backside Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:49, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

The focus of the scene is quite clearly Issho and the Marines prostrating themselves before Riku, not the detailing of the latter's cape. The anime is far from perfect, but it otherwise captured the detail of this scene very well - no need to revert to manga over one small detail like this.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:56, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

It's not a small detail. --Mandon (talk) 23:47, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

It kind of is since it's not related to the point of the pic in any way Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:53, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

It's still a contradiction to the canon. Not even a minor one either. I think what this all comes down to is keeping it accurate, or keeping it coloured. --Mandon (talk) 05:06, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

The emblem is so insignificant to the scene, it would of gone unnoticed by the majority of users here, if not for this discussion. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 09:14, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Riku's position allows us to see most of his back, whereas we can see only a part of his face. This choice of point of view puts the emblem/cape almost in front of the spectator (in the manga at least, the anime kind of makes the Marines occupy more of the picture than Riku who's a bit "smaller" in the picture). That makes the emblem the more noticed by the spectators.--Loiciol (talk) 13:36, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Besides, how do we know this choice of logo isn't related to the scene at all? Riku's clothes are his gladiators's ones. That isn't like any usual outfit. This error was even corrected in the manga. --Loiciol (talk) 13:36, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Riku is wearing the cape because he took part in a gladiator match (in disguise) that day and had no time to change. It's a very small detail that has no real significance to the story and was only corrected because Oda has always drawn the cape that way and makes sure all details are correct in the volumes.

Issho lay prostrate before Riku as the former king of Dressrosa, not as anything else. The scene has meaning only because the World Government actually apologized for something for once in its existence. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:18, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Kaido. On top of that, if we can only use anime scenes that are 120% dedicated to the manga canon then bye-bye that new Sabo anime infobox with the six fingers on his left hand. I guarantee you that the average viewer doesn't give a damn about Riku's cape as long as they can tell what's going on in the scene, which they still can with the anime image.--Xilinoc (talk) 14:49, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Just poll it. There's no clear majority here. --Mandon (talk) 16:50, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

We're not going to poll it until more people comment. SeaTerror (talk) 19:43, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

The way I saw it is that it's the Marines kneeling to a king. The fact that he happens to be wearing a symbol commonly associated with pirates and death is inconsequential, unless you're suggesting that Fujitora would bow to death instead of following his own creed. The anime one works fine.

16:31, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

It's especially not a big deal since the chapter version of the manga didn't even have the crossbones on it. Toei doesn't animate from volumes. SeaTerror (talk) 19:30, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

So Oda made a mistake drawing it. That happens. We aren't debating whether Toei animates from the first release or the reviewed and compiled release. We're debating if it means anything that Riku is wearing a cape with a symbol on it.

20:16, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

That's the point. They still followed the manga so there's no reason at all to use the manga version. SeaTerror (talk) 22:01, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

I should note that there's precedence to use manga images if there's a discrepancy in the anime image. Take Ace's death in the anime. Was it important to the scene that Ace's beads remain intact? No, but keeping it accurate is more important than keeping it coloured. --Mandon (talk) 16:54, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

That's a fair point, but at the same time I'd argue that such a thing should only hold true for the focus of the image. For the one you mentioned, is Ace the focus? Absolutely, so using the version with all of his various details accurate is key. For this one, though, is Riku the focus? I would say no, that's by far Issho and the Marines lowering their heads in apology. On top of that, compare how many times we saw Ace's necklace to how frequently we saw the back of Riku's cape - it's not a detail that you can, say, observe from the infoboxes, and the average reader might not even remember that if they're just browsing through, so I don't think it matters as much as an iconic necklace/hat/etc.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:39, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

"I should note that there's precedence to use manga images if there's a discrepancy in the anime image." No there isn't. That was never a rule and never will be one on the wiki. SeaTerror (talk) 21:37, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Precedence does not mean it's a rule. However, that does not make precedence irrelevant. Make your own decisions based on what you think is right for us.

Personally, I don't see the importance of color here when compared to the cape. The art quality is a bit nicer in the manga (Fuji's sword, anyone?), and the focus is still visible. I'm for the manga. 23:08, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/precedence It is completely irrelevant. We don't choose one over the other. We discuss and poll them. Nothing comes "first". SeaTerror (talk) 23:25, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I believe that color is worth more than a skull and crossbones that have no significance to the scene Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:59, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

That's a nice straw-man argument ST. Precedence means it's happened before. Not once did I infer that said precedence should dictate which images we use. --Mandon (talk) 04:06, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I believe that accuracy (even though this may not be the focus of the image, Riku's back is taking nearly a third of the picture (in the manga at least)) and quality (the manga is much more detailed, Issho's sword is indeed much better, Riku's face can be seen a bit more in the manga, we can even see Issho sweating from being really sorry) are more important than color.--Loiciol (talk) 06:28, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

"I should note that there's precedence to use manga images if there's a discrepancy in the anime image." You did right there by even mentioning it. SeaTerror (talk) 07:31, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Precedence is a factor, much like art quality, or colors, etc. It is not an ironclad rule, like our rule against doctored or unsourced images. People like to mention factors, and mentioning them does NOT make them rules.

Anyways, let's get on with a poll, shall we? Classic image poll, 2 options, 1 week, no test period. 04:40, April 8, 2016 (UTC)