Talk:Monkey D. Luffy/Abilities and Powers

Use of Kenbunshoku Haki?
During the battle of Marineford, Luffy is able to punch Coby even after he has used the Soru technique. This may sound a bit far fetched, but is it possible that Luffy unwittingly used his Haki to predict Coby's movements? Take a look: http://www.mangareader.net/103-43538-4/one-piece/chapter-569.html

Predicting Mihawk
Is it really true that Luffy used his haki to predict Mihawk's moves? He has shown many times before that he is good at dodging and evading attacks, so this was nothing out of the ordinary. Speculation maybe?

It doesn't seem to be Haki. For example, Mantra users like Satori stated they predict things like "a left kick", because that's what the ability does, you can read your enemy and see what moves they try to do. "My hands get cut off" doesn't fit this at all: It's not a prediction because it didn't happena and it's not a move. And to interfere "I can predict the future!" from "If I stretch my arms in the direction of the master swordsman with the giant blade, my hands will get cut off" is a big leap in logic. As long as it isn't confirmed, we should keep it as speculation.

Haki-section cleared up
I moved a few parts here in there, such as the mention of Busoshoku Haki in the Kenbunshoku Haki section. I also removed the line about it being an ability "similar to the one Shanks has" - it's the exact same thing.

One Way Steam
I noticed something when Luffy attacked Hody. Look at the panels that show Luffy's kick connecting with Hody's chest and the larger panel that shows Luffy bent over. In both panels, the steam from Gear Second is coming from his arms, yet he didn't punch Hody. We know he can isolate Gear Second to only one limb, but why isolate it to his arms if he kicks the opponent? Should it be added or am I missing the steam from his legs? 22:20, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Oda didn't want to draw the steam near the legs, because otherwise you can't see the "shock wave" from the impact. Maybe the shock wave knocked back the steam to behind his body so that now it looks like it's coming from his arms. There may be something more to it than that but I'd say for now this is just a strange artistic decision. 88.68.115.144 09:30, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Kenbunshoku Haki
I wanted to comment on the fact that the article claims that there are examples of Kenbunshoku Haki being used prior to the timeskip. This is complete speculation. Yes, he did dodge attacks from Pacifistas and stuff like that, but this does not necessitate Haki, just absurd speed and reflexes. The closest thing we have is Mihawk cutting his arms in a vision, simply because the vision is quite bizarre and seems to lack any explanation. But unless Oda confirms it, we should keep that off the page. Also, notice that people like Coby and Aisa developed Haki by hearing "voices", they could feel the presence of people and knew when they died. So far, these are the only confirmed examples, so anything that doesn't fit them is speculation. Because of these reasons, I think we should delete these incidents being reported as demonstrations of Kenbunshoku Haki and just mention his ability to use it, until we get confirmed uses of this ability.

84.59.54.197 15:59, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

The article doesn't state is an absolute fact, we have to mention that episodes at least. The Mihawk case for example wasn't a simple reflex, he had a vision of what could have happen, the users of that kind of haki don't only hear the "voices" if you remember. The other two are example of post timeskip. There isn't any speculation on the article, we have simply stated what we have seen.

Once again, it was a reflex. I already said before that that is a common thing used in manga and anime about showing a person thinking what would happen if he actually did something and then backing off because he knew something bad would happen. SeaTerror 18:47, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe that is common in manga... but it was never done in One Piece, in One Piece has another meaning. Anyway, the article doesn't speculate in any way, so there is no problem.

The article DOES speculate, namely by putting the vision in the Kenbunshoku Haki section while the vision has not been explained at all. This gives the reader the impression that the vision is due to Haki. Yes, Haki users don't just hear voices. Satori was able to predict stuff like "a left kick" - but that is different from the vision - the vision was "He will cut my arms" and I find it to be quite a stretch to say "He knew when he would stretch his arms into the direction of the guy with a sword, the guy with a sword would cut his arms - clearly that's a confirmed use of his new superpower". Yes, "the vision was because of Haki" is not written in the article but if you are simply writing what you see, then you can write that in a section that isn't titled "Kenbunshoku Haki" - only confirmed uses of that ability should go there. 88.68.115.144 09:25, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

This is what is said in the article: "During the Whitebeard War, he appears to have developed the ability to predict his opponent's moves, by instinct, during his skirmish with Mihawk. Luffy stops his Gomu Gomu no Jet Bazooka in mid strike when he has a vision of his arm being cut off by Mihawk. Mihawk remarks that the move showed that Luffy was "surprisingly clear-headed." He was also able to dodge a bullet point-blank and a beam shot from a Pacifista's hand. Whether or not these incidents are due to Haki isn't clear."

It's not speculative, that was what happened. Speculating is stated a fact which is untrue/unconfirmed. Sooner or later, we will have a confirmation of Luffy being able to use that haki but I can already said that Oda will never said "Oh that time and that other time he was using Haki" so these instances will always be unconfirmed, but we have to mention them at least. And why should we write it in another section? Which one? "Precognition"? It's in that section because is regarding a possible instance of that kind of haki.

First of all, we already have confirmation that Luffy is now able to use all 3 types of Haki - that is why Rayleigh left him after 1 1/2 years of training. Also, you are contradicting yourself in so many that it's absolutely staggering: You say the article doesn't speculate because speculation is something that is unconfirmed. And then you admit that it's not confirmed SEVERAL TIMES IN A ROW!


 * "Sooner or later, we will have a confirmation of Luffy being able to use that haki" - so you think we don't have confirmation he can use the ability at all. You think we don't have any confirmation at all.


 * "Oda will never said "Oh that time and that other time he was using Haki" so these instances will always be unconfirmed" You even think it will never be confirmed.


 * "It's in that section because is regarding a possible instance of that kind of haki." Same as above.

You say "but we have to mention them at least" - considering that people are extremely vehement against mentioning Choppers appearance on the cover of 628 at all, apparently we done have. Despite the fact that "Chopper looks different" is a fact.

88.68.115.144 10:13, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe I didn't explained it well or you misunderstood me, what I said is that they are unconfirmed facts, as many others on this wiki, hence we have to write them as editor observations remarking that they are not confirmed, if we wrote them as facts we would have speculated. I don't think I'm contradicting myself, maybe you thought I was taking them as confirmed facts, which I don't. The fact I believe they are instances of haki is only my opinion, nothing more. To put it simpler, we are doing the same thing we do with trivias, and we note this kind of observations only because are very important or relevant, we don't do the same with all unconfirmed facts obviously. By the way, what's the matter of Chopper?

I added Luffy uses CoA for defensive manuevers because in chapter 637 page 5, Luffy made his arm so hard, when Hody tried hitting it, Hody hurt himself. It must have been really hard if Hody couldn't hurt Luffy's defense when Hody was already overdosed and insanely powerful.

This was never solved. That was not Haki. SeaTerror 06:57, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it was. On the page before that, he turned his arm black the same way he did when he used Elephant Gun. SeaTerror you are right in that we don't know the exact cause of Hody's facial expression following the encounter, Busoshoku Haki was used in part to block the kick. 08:57, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

This was about the fight with Mihawk not Hody. SeaTerror 02:06, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, woops. My mistake. Yes, the thing with Mihawk is highly debatable as to whether or not haki was involved. 02:37, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Which is why it shouldn't be mentioned as Haki so I removed it. SeaTerror 01:22, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

I also removed the part about Luffy using CoO haki to dodge the Px laser beam.He dodged them becuse they seemed to be slow to him i.e Reflexes not CoO haki.Theres also the fact that he shouldnt be able to Use CoO haki against the Px because they have no minds and we all know CoO hakis ability to predict movement is actually a form of Mindreading.Zionite7 12:20, October 28, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

Would someone pls stop including Luffy dodging the laser beam as an instance of CoO haki!Luffy dodged becuse it was slow to him he said so himself!There was no CoO haki involved.Zionite7 17:49, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Luffys Haki and Hardening/Vulcanization
In Luffys abilities/powers page People seem to think that Luffy everytime Luffy uses Haki he Vulcanizes/hardens.However He didnt Vulcanize/harden when he used haki against the Px(as the page incorrectly reports) and He didnt vulcanize/harden when he used it to defend gainst Hodis bite.So isnt the page wrong?Zionite7 12:03, October 28, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

Did it ever occur to you that he didn't use haki those other times? 16:13, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I dont get your Piont.Luffy did use haki against the Px it was clearly stated. He also did use haki to defend against Hodis bite,that also was clearly stated.He didnt vulcanize at all when he used haki at those times.Zionite7 16:29, October 28, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

Well DP, he's got a point at the fact that Luffy used busoshoku haki, Sentomaru stated it in his mind. Zio, we didn't see him reinforce it with haki, but that doesn't mean it didn't harden, no one saw the punch the moment right before he hit the pacifista, Luffy was on the ground, activated his second gear then jumped and after that we see only how the PX is crushed, we don't see Luffy's fist while he is jumping.

Youve got a piont Strong Fist, but that doesnt confirm or deny the notion that Luffy always vulcanizes when he uses haki.Theres also the fact that Luffy used Busosoku haki to defend from his Hodis bite and he didnt vulcanize then either.So this notion that Luffy always vulcanizes when he uses haki couldbe wrong as 2 occasions say the contraryZionite7 08:56, October 30, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

Actually, he did use busoshoku koka to defend against Hody when they were still in the plaza. Also, you don't need to type your after you sign your posts. It does it for you. That's why it's called a signature. 15:06, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I guess the actual chapter (644) gives a hint on when Luffy is combining hardening with his gears: First he said "Gear 3 Busoshoku Koka" instead of "Gear 3 Hone Fuusen"/"Gear 3 Bone Balloon" before smacking the Kraken. And before he hit Hody in the current chapter he said: "Gear 2 Buso" instead of simply "Gear 2". -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 15:22, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I was actually referring to this page Dance powder.http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/641/8

You dont see any Vulcanization yet Luffy explicitly said that he used Busoshoku haki.So lets examine the facts

1.We didnt see Luffy harden against the Px.Each time it hardened Oda told us and showed it to us.So saying he used Busoshoku Koka against the Px is speculation,.There is no proof saying so

2.He didnt harden against Hodis bite.So saying that Everytime Luffy uses haki,he vulcanizes is wrong as we have 2 manga instances contradicting that information.

Zionite7 17:57, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

New Gear Second
Don't you think we should use a short animation to show Luffy activating his new gear second, as seen in episode 521?--Strawhat1 16:36, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Since it's been seen in only the anime, we don't know if it's canon. 18:01, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Of course it's canon! We have an image of Luffy doing the same thing right here on this page. The anime only followed the manga, so it's canon and I think it's best that we will show a short animation of Luffy activating his gear second from his hand (Personally I think it's not really clear that that's what he is doing from the manga image). --Strawhat1 19:01, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

That only shows steam coming out. No increased bloodflow. Just leave it until we have a better image for confirmation from the manga. 20:54, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the steam! I'm talking about him activating gear second (the "steam"). You can definitely see that he is activating his gear second from his hand, and from his legs like before the time skip! Using an animation will be great in this case! Strawhat1 05:05, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

The Problem is that Luffy activates Gear second quite differently than the way he activates it in the manga.For starters there is no visible pumping motion when Post timeskip Luffy uses it

.Secondly Post timeskip Luffy usually activates Gear second in a specific body part/s(in this case his arm) ,not his entire body as the anime incorrectly showed.

This is not the first mistake the anime made in the ep.They incorrectly showed Sanji spinning to activate Diable Jambe which the manga showed is no longer necessary for Sanji.

Zionite7 18:02, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if, because it makes sense, if Luffy's Gear Second is an advanced type of Soru.

I think his increased speed is because the high flow of blood which allows him to kick the air 10 times to meet the requirments of the Soru and he advanced through the mastery of Soru to be able to even PUNCH the air thus developing Soru on his attacks.

I don't know if this was mentioned before, but I know it wasn't mentioned in the article, and I think it makes sense and explains the full mechanism of Gear Second.

Is it so, or something else? I haven't watched the movies so I don't know if it was seen in the movies. 94.96.57.43 14:13, January 13, 2012 (UTC)