Forum:Additional Chat Moderator(s)

Hi everyone, in the last month we've had a chat moderator problem. With panda going inactive X is the only European mod but everyone has lives too so we can't expect him to be here every day for so many hours. So when Kuro goes to bed we get a huge gap without mods for quite some hours until Jade or Calu join the chat. That seriously can't keep happening for much time, it's already happening since late October, so I believe we need additional chat moderators. And by discussing it in chat many time with various people we all come to an agreement to this (but nobody would make this forum so I was forced to be the one ._.). I believe we should get two new mods but if not two then definitely at least one who must have a European timezone in order to cover this big gap. Please state your opinions below. 14:48, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Agreed. Usually there is no mod online during the time from 9 till 14 (UTC), when X joins. If something happens and X doesn't log, then we have no mod until 17-18 (UTC). We really need a new one, maybe two.

I also agree that we should have 2 new mods with European timezones. 14:55, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed.--

I disagree. Despite their being no mod during those time gaps, it doesn't really cause a problem for those in the chat. I'm sure all responsible users have manged to use the chat without any issues so far, them continuing to do so, shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure when Panda returns those uncovered hours will be covered once again. 7 Chat moderators is more than enough to cover all the necessary timezones. 16:31, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

That is the problem: Panda. As much as she does a superb job on being a chat moderator that I never see her go offline whenever I enter chat or just simply make a little stalking visit, no one knows when she will return on the wiki. Whilst I agree on Besty's opinion that most of us who are on chat when there are no moderators present knows all the chat rules and is responsible enough to follow them, we can never be 100% sure that nothing wrong will happen on those mod-less (now a word, please?) hours. I know this wiki has 7 moderators, yet as I type this message, there is/are no moderator(s) present. Like what they say, prevention is better than cure. (Do that phrase even makes sense..? >_>) Ah well, this is just my two cents. I'm still relatively new to this wiki, so I'll go with whatever the community's verdict would be.

We as regulars might indeed be responsible enough but what will you do if a troll comes? Mods are there to ban trolls and maintain the order in chat. if we don't have a mod for so many hours daily, how can this happen? 17:17, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Staw is right. Us knowing how to behave is not gonna cut it. If that is the case, why have mods in the first place? Are afternoon hours more dangerous for chat abuse than morning hours? This doesn't even make sense. As far as Panda is concerned, I don't know her and I don't know when or even if she will return, but we sure can't rely on that. If you guys think 7 mods are enough then maybe we should promote a temp mod until Panda returns or even replace the inactive ones with more active users.

Panda will return, but putting her aside, there are other mods who need to either do more or stand down. Ryu, especially. I barely ever see him online, and I know it's not just my timezone. X, who to be fair did ask DP to demod him a month or so ago, is less active than he was, and while normally that wouldn't be a problem, with no Panda that means most of the day in the European time zone is without a mod. 18:18, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Besty what's the cost in having more mods (at least when Panda is away) and what does it matter if there were no misbehaves or trolls until now, we should take measures before that happens 18:37, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

According to SHB, Panda is gone for good. A sad day for us all. But that means another mod IS needed. 23:31, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

i just heard from SHB that panda isnt coming back, so yeah we need a mod to replace her, personally i think nova should fill the post. he's a responsible user who is fairly active on chat-- 23:32, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, if there are holes where the chat isn't moderated, then they must be filled. We should start the official process of electing mods. Though I do think this time we should specify that we are looking for mods that can be regularly active from X UTC - Y UTC this time. (Reminder: timezone isn't really what matters, it's what time the user is available for). In the nomination phase, anyone who accepts nominations should agree that they can be active at the time we actually need. And for more detail on what that window is, some posts from the other mods about which times they are actively modding would really be appreciated. 02:04, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

The gap is when Austalian mods go to bed till American mods join the chat so we need a mod with European timezone since Europeans are usually the only ones active at those hours. Also are we gonna get one or two mods? 05:53, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Unless Panda herself states herself she is stepping down, replacing her shouldn't be considered. The Chat often consists of regular users and occasional a new user or two. I doubt a visiting troll would happen. 13:19, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Panda has left the wiki for good, Besty. And arguments between regulars still happen and need a mod in case things spill over. 13:30, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

My timezone is currently UTC +10:00 and I'm on anywhere between 9 am until 2 am. That's 18 hours of potential coverage. If we're going ahead with getting a new mod than do the math yourselves and work out how that effects your timezones for when I'm not on. Panda has left the wiki for good, her situation is clear so now it's time to address it. Personally, I suggest Nova as a candidate. 13:36, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Depending on the number of people arguing, it can always be taken to a private chat. Ryu has been in chat quite often to cover his timezone. Just that people in a European time zone don't see him often enough, demodding him would just cause more issues. Timezones should be considered JSD, otherwise we will have a Mod for the wrong hours in need of being covered. 13:40, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Alright I'm just going to put my opinion in here and not that many of you people give a damn but I will give it anyway. Yes Panda told me she is leaving so we do need more moderators around the european timezone, for the reasons stated by people already. In my opinion I believe the best candidate out of the active people on the chat would be Nova. As far as demodding people goes why do you care if we have a few fairly inactive people with stars hanging around every now and then, I really do not think it matters what so ever. They were picked to be mods for a reason, they aren't going to take advantage and do something stupid but if they do then remove their rights. As far as I go I recently got a new job so I'm busy atm also it is summer here so due to those two things I won't be on as much for maybe the next month but then it will be back to normal for me. 14:34, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

ok, three users (me, Besty and SHB) have suggested that nova be made mod to replace panda and no one else has been suggested, so unless anyone has any objections can we start talking about whether he would be a good fit or even talk about making a poll about it?-- 16:40, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

We are supposed to have a poll for the nominations and then one to vote on all of them to see which one will get the most votes. 16:46, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Is it worth getting an admin in here before starting the nominations? Because I know DP will want to have a say in this. 16:56, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

An admin should probably say something, though personally, I think we should wait to start nominations until we know more about the current mods' schedules. If we're going to be smart about how mods are elected this time, and not just run a popularity contest, we'll need to know the schedule.

Here's what I mean when I say timezone doesn't matter as much: It is not where a person lives that matters, but when they can be active. So where now, we are looking for someone who can be active during Europe's evening hours, we shouldn't be opposed to someone who is free during America's early afternoon, since those are the same time. I'm not saying we shouldn't use someone from Europe, I'm just saying we should open ourselves to more options. Personally, I think Nova is a fantastic candidate to fill an empty spot. But until we hear more from the other mods, we may need to fill other holes in the schedule and appoint other mods. 17:03, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

From the beginning i thought there should be 5 Moderators. 1 west coast,1 east coast,1 europe,1 asia,and 1 wild card for situations like this. But from experience, time zones at this point arent THAT important. Knowing some of the users, if they get chat mod rights, they will stay on chat all day so there wont be any need to transition from west coast to east coast. But i do feel that an over saturation of chat mods is unnecessary. Saying that, i'll throw my name in here if there needs to be a new mod. I may have voluntarily lost my mod powers before, but seeing as how the wikia could use more experienced chat mods atm, i would like to help out. 17:15, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Since I asked to put my opinion in here, so here it goes. Not only do I find it hilarious that just a few months ago, Staw create the forum to demote chat mods and rollbacks, but now he created this forum for more mods. Anyway, my schedule on the weekdays is usually whenever I get home from school which is around 2:30 P.M. (EST / 7:30 (UTC)) to probably 12:00 A.M. (EST / 5:00 (UTC)). But on the weekends it's whenever I wake up at probably 11:00 A.M. (EST / 4:00 (UTC)) to whenever I feel like getting off. Last time a new chat mod was mentioned, everyone wanted two chat mods that could cover the uncovered time zones. A Europe (X) who covers a lot of time that there aren't any other chat mod, and another American (Jade). I mean sure, it's fine, since both the last candidates (Jade and Weirdo) are from the same time zone. But at the time, there were two others (Hungry and I) with the same time zone! Not to mention that there was also someone else (Ryu) with just a timezone behind us. Because Jade and I literally cover the same times. As long as it's someone that's there usually, and would cover that time. I know that Hungry and Nova would do a fine job. But please don't let it be Staw, anyone but Staw. 18:02, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm throwing my hat in. It's good to have additional options. Also, I do tend to be on chat quite often, and I understand what the rules in chat are, so I'll join in the race.  Fintin  Talk   20:58, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I guess the question right now its not if we should have a new mod since almost everybody agrees that we should, but if we should have 1 newmod or more -  21:21, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, since I've been nominated, I'll stand for the voting. And I think we only need one new mod. The hours are covered when they need to be, with the exception of the European afternoon/evening. 21:31, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

You didn't voluntarily lose your mod powers Hungry. You got in an argument with DP so DP demoted you. SeaTerror (talk) 23:40, November 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Half in half. There was a dispute in words but its not like my position as chat mod at the time was what caused the "dispute". Plus, that is just a snipped of my overall message. It also doesn't take away that I have experience as a chat mod on this wikia for quite a while.-- 00:12, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

im not 100% certain but i believe the current mod timezones are like this:

i know the actual timezone doesn't hold as much weight as when they are actually available but i don't have that info, also i believe the current proposals' timezones are:

(if i got anyone's timezone wrong then please correct it for me)

again i know that timezones aren't as important as much as when the user is actually available but again i don't know that info and at least this is something. so anyway judging from the candidates apparent availabilities, nova would be the closest to panda's timezone though again this is only assuming that they all follow a normal schedule. anyway all three of the proposed users are great choices and responsible enough to get these rights-- 23:45, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

14:00 UTC would be nine o'clock in the morning for Fin, would he be available so early in the morning then? I think we need someone who is exactly in the UTC time or a couple of hours late, and is available in his/her afternoon and evening hours. Those are the hours I see the chat without a mod online the most. Also, is it ok to just through names like that on the table? Isn't there a procedure to follow?

i don't want to speak for Fintin, but im fairly certain he would be attending classes at 14:00 UTC so it might be a bit inconvenient for him (again, im not certain about this. maybe fin would be available, i don't know for sure). also, i don't see what's wrong with creating a table just to present the timezones of the mods, i didn't create a poll or a header for discussion about them, its just a part of my comment-- 00:45, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

No, no I'm not judging you CC I'm just asking if there is a procedure since it is my first time getting involved in such a matter. If this is the way it's done I would have some names to propose myself (not me ofcourse)
 * i honestly have no idea how these mod elections are supposed to work, i've never been involved in one before and i've only glanced over the previous ones but i believe staw stated earlier that: "[We create] a poll for the nominations and then one to vote on all of them to see which one will get the most votes." so yeah if you want to nominate some people you definitely should-- 01:04, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Unless DP agrees with making of a new mod, shouldn't we hold off on nominations? As someone suggested considering other users within the same time gap, would be a good idea, if a new mod is to be. 01:00, November 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * i think its fairly obvious that we will need to appoint a new mod to replace panda, so i think its safe to just talk about users who would be right for the position-- 01:04, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

If he hungry gets his mod powers back it will fill in the gap and save a lot of time. And I remember from a while back and even from what I can see on FT wiki that when I would go to bed hungry would be on and when I would get back on the next day hungry wasn't far from bed. It works perfectly but I know some of you guys will drag this out as long as you can with polls and discussion just incase there is a chance of you getting the position yourself, I can sit here listing your names if you really wish but you already know who you are. So it would be great if you didn't make this a long and arduous process and just give hungry his rights back. Cheers 01:27, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this shouldn't become too convoluted. If we're just looking for a new mod to fill in for others, then I agree that reappointing Hungry would be the best option. He's been there and done that, so why bother looking for new talent? There's been rumors back and forth regarding "who's gonna leave next", but for right now, more than 1 new mod isn't necessary.  Fintin  Talk   02:58, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

If Hungry is active then he's certainly the best mod option since he has been one in the past. I don't know if you guys want to vote on this but I'm fine with just giving him his rights back. But if you choose to poll it, you're supposed to make a poll for the nominations too. 05:44, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Also personally I believe I would be an awesome mod and I should definitely get the power, no admin, no staff. (Nah jk Idgaf about that)... (but do put me in the nominations ._. This is so shameful) But as a nomination I would like to suggest User:XGlass Reflection because he's one of the most active guys in chat in that time along with me, nova and roa and he's responsible enough. 05:53, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Can we all agree with Hungry with Mod? If so then let's end this forum already. 10:25, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know Hungry all that well, but I do know he was a trusted mod on this wiki before. I'm willing to support this. Just because I might want to be mod doesn't make me the best person for it, and clearly people prefer Hungry. 13:54, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

No, i think there are more much more active users in chat who are worth it(at least the hours that i'm online and there's not a mod in the chat). Aka Staw(yes staw), Nova, Roa. 14:13, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

^ Agree with Apo 100%

What we need from a mod is for them to be on from 2 till 7 in the afternoon (UTC). I know people prefer Hungry, but can he cover that time? 14:54, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Looking at hungry's timezone makes me rethink my post. We need a mod who will be active during 1pm UTC to 6-7 pm UTC. Frankly, the only people that are online during that time on a regurlar basis are me, nova, roa, mad, apo and sometimes vaz. Fin who has suggested taking the position is rarely online at that time. 15:03, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

I'm no longer interested in being mod if it's going to get this complicated. If anything, X is good for that specific timezone Staw mentioned, and if not X, then Nova would be good. Hungry could then fill in his old timezone.  Fintin  Talk   17:15, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

so now do we poll if hungry, nova and/or Xglass should be considered for the position before polling over which user(s) should get the position, or do we do something else?-- 21:33, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

DP has made Hungry a temporary mod for a grace period of a week. If there are still mod problems by next Friday, we can talk about it some more. 22:37, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

Demod me. BANDA 11:59, November 30, 2013 (UTC)

So what are we gonna do about this? 05:28, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

[edit conflict]


 * actually Noa'd be online at that time too :/.--

We decided to give it a week to see if hungry was enough so wait a bloody week. Also if there is a small gap get over it it's not a big deal. Staw you are not getting mod so please stop persisting with this. 06:14, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

All we need is Hungry right now. SeaTerror (talk) 11:38, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

I never asked for it shb. 12:12, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you didn't ask for it, but you're pushing it, which is just as close. The issue has been resolved. If it's not the outcome you wanted or were expecting, then that's just too bad for you. Reread SHB's post, and this time I suggest you follow his advice. 13:18, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

While I do have something to contribute to this discussion, it's going to have to wait till Friday. 13:42, December 4, 2013 (UTC)

Nova's been made a mod, so i think its safe to close this discussion for now-- 01:17, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hungry was fine as the mod there should have been discussion first before an additional one was made. SeaTerror (talk) 01:29, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

there was a discussion.................on the chat and out of 19 users no one had a problem with him being made a mod, plus we have already made several arguments (see above) about why Nova should be a mod-- 01:32, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome no polls no annoying dragged out discussions, easy and simple. And the best part is it's not Staw :D. Cheers 01:40, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't want to have to do this but here. http://imageshack.us/g/1/10318625/ This is why Nova would make a bad mod. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/10l0.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/10l0.png/ You can tell from those order of screenshots that They both lied to Jade to get Asura banned that day. SeaTerror (talk) 01:49, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

i still think nova's the best choice for the modship-- 01:55, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

We don't need another mod since Hungry is it. Also Raptor is back. The screenshots just show that Nova would be bias. SeaTerror (talk) 01:56, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

>_> youre saying the guy who asked jade to ban him because for him not to have been banned would have been unfair, is biased?-- 01:58, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Did you even read the conversation? Nova flat out lied to Jade to get Asura banned. SeaTerror (talk) 02:03, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

i also read that nova asked jade to ban him, for it to be fair-- 02:06, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Is true we didn't need another mod but and even so I don't think Nova was the best choice (no offence) but what's done is done I guess. 02:06, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Seems the rules were ignored yet again. Nova cannot be mod without an actual poll on a forum. We don't need to have these problems again.

i guess having a discussion/polling it on this forum would be fair, but unless people vote that nova shouldnt be a mod then i think he should continue to keep his rights-- 02:21, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

The poll will have to follow the same format as the old one, but I'd definitely vote for him if it was done the correct way.

And no, he shouldn't retain his powers until the community votes him in (and I'm sure they will). 02:23, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

I already showed why Nova should not be a mod in the first place. SeaTerror (talk) 02:24, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

A poll is unessary at this point, theirs no need to continue something which was agreed upon. 02:26, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Chat discussions do not count in wiki discussions, and we've already had a forum that states that we must poll the issue. Let's just poll it so nobody can complain at all. 02:34, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

In that case you would need to do a full discussion and poll about not having a new mod or one with all candidates like how we had nominations already in this forum. SeaTerror (talk) 02:41, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Or you could just stfu Gal, would be the easiest option and why would you bring that forum into this. It was about why I shouldn't be a mod it didn't resolve shit. It was a bunch of people bitching about me nothing more. 02:43, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

How about we not be petty on talk pages, and respect others' opinions? That's no way to try to convince anybody of anything.

That being said though, the rules cannot just be ignored. If you want him to be a mod, do it the correct way so that complaints can not come up. Nobody would complain if people just followed procedure when it comes to this.

Also, as for the forum not deciding anything, you can see at the bottom that it did. "We use an electoral system where the community can nominate and then vote for new moderators" was the winning option. 02:47, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Nobody has a problem with nova being mod except you. Close this. Also shb I so strongly feel the love :] 07:25, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

I see an opposition from ST.

It's not that I have a problem with him being mod, the issue is that the rules are being ignored when they can easily be followed and nobody will have the opportunity to complain. 07:35, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Why must everything be such a  god damn drawn out waste of everyone's time with you? It's not like we're choosing admins here. It's a lot easier and more effective for everyone if it's decided without having to go through a whole song and dance to enact something that was already solved and in place two weeks before the debacle that is mod voting. I still to this day cannot for the life of me understand how that bs rule came to pass. The problem is solved, and yet that in itself is a problem for you. Do you see the paradox I'm trying to point out here? It's solved, people are happy, deal with it. And if, for whatever reason the new guy is an ineffective moderator, that problem can be solved with all the ease of clicking a button. You're getting it into your head that this is some kind of huge deal when it isn't. Keep inflating it so hopefully it will burst soon and you'll see just how much of a waste of everyone's time this is. 07:51, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

The policy came to be because the community voted on it. But apparently that doesn't seem to matter to you, so whatever. 08:04, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

WTF,when we start a poll,everyone goes "Eww,why polls?" but then again when we dont have one, "Where are the damn polls?"..Just close this,Noa's a mod.--

Well besides that poll result issue I already pointed out how Nova would be a bad mod. SeaTerror (talk) 15:11, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

So you mean every other mod is an angel that has never ever misbehaved on chat? Cause that's not true at all. 15:16, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

http://cdn.bernardgoldberg.com/wp-content/uploads/strawman.jpg SeaTerror (talk) 15:24, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

First off, ST that's insulting. I'm always shocked about how you get away with blatantly insulting other users and their opinions...

But back to the main point, we should still poll this. Not because Nova or Hungry shouldn't be mods, or any other petty crap, but because that's the rule we decided on as a community. I personally think Nova and Hungry are fantastic choices for mods at this time. My main reason is this: I'm tired of always arguing over this mod stuff. I believe the only way for this silly and needless argument to end and not show up again in the future is to actually follow the rules the community decided on. We all know that if this doesn't get polled, then users like ST who are opposed to the choices we make in mods are going to constantly bring this up at any possible turn and make it so this argument never dies.

Now I know DP, SHB and others want the simple solution so we don't have to deal with all this awful, gut-wrenching argument. They think that the best way to do that is to just make Hungry and Nova mods and end it. But I believe that argument is actually what's driving this to be so bitter and never-ending. By constantly bringing up the issue of just appointing mods w/o a poll, we always must argue about that AND whether or not we need mods AND who those mods must be, which makes these forums go on forever. If you guys would just accept the fact that we should elect mods every time, this whole procedure would be so much more painless, easy, and most importantly; quick. By fighting it every time, it's now YOU guys who drag this out, not people like Galaxy and myself who merely want us to follow the rules.

Finally, here's how we get out of here with no fuss: 1)Lock this forum and take Nova's modship away temporarily. 2)Make a new one with only a poll in it, no discussions. There are only 2 questions: "Do we make Hungry a mod?" and "Do we make Nova a mod?" 3)After a weeklong poll the issue is done, Nova and IH are mods, and we can all get on with our lives.

If we do that, nobody can get mad at this forum in the future, and it's all painless and easy. As long as we follow the rules, then we can avoid terrible arguments like this. 17:57, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with all the points made by JSD. 18:22, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Likewise. That seems like the best option now. 22:18, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Okay first off it's staw who brought this up not me and DP. Secondly if you would go on chat and ask around you would see that it's only you, Gal and ST who are against this and ST only because he doesn't want Nova to be mod. Thirdly I hate these forums and staw stfu and stop making this shit. I didn't agree with Nova being a mod either but I shut up about it hoping one of you dickheads would keep your mouths shut and make this easy for once. Lastly and I'm just going to be blunt here, pointing the finger at the other side during an argument/debate saying you are the reason this is happening is fucking retarded, it take two sides to argue not just one, I even thought your arguent was reasonable and was begining to agree with you until you said that stupid shit. Thanks for making this complicated as fuck guys you're awesome. 00:41, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, I'll start off this time by acknowledging that I too am at fault for this going on. I even apologize if I offended you. I'm being totally genuine here, so I hope that you can read the rest of this with less negativity.

After seeing this argument so many times, and every time being personally blamed for making everything shitty, I just wanted to make others aware that they too can be blamed as easily as I have been.

The way I went about that was a bit over-dramatic, and I didn't take any blame for myself, and again, I apologize for that. I still believe though that fighting for making people mods without voting is bad for the wiki. If the rules aren't followed, people will complain forever (and not just me). If we can't follow the rules for something as open-and-shut as this, how can we expect people to think they should be followed for a far more complex issue?

Regardless, the time has passed for this forum. It's already awful and poisoned by argument. All we can do is try and avoid falling into the same stupid trap next time. This wiki is capable of handling things properly and with civility, as long as people actually think about the consequences of their actions, whether they be making someone a mod, or starting an argument about that person being a mod.

Anyways, in my mind, closing this forum and moving on to a simple poll like I described earlier is still the best way to move on from here. 03:07, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, polls are the best way to end such a long and seemingly going nowhere discussions. In my opinion, though, adding more chat moderators is good to maintain a good chat service. 03:29, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

If the rules say that it has to be polled, then either it has to be polled or the rules have to be changed. Simple as that.

Ugh, ugh ok then make the poll and let's this over with.. 17:00, December 7, 2013 (UTC)