Forum:Colored Manga Images

Hello all.

Oda's team has started coloring all the chapters so there has been an issue with the cover pages. The colored chapters are not online yet so we don't have access to many of them. A new user updated five chapter covers with colored ones but MasterDeva reverted the image and said we have to upload them separately. However, as discussed in chat most of us disagree and believe we must just update the current chapter covers since unless we do that, we will have to create a switch for the chapter pages with will be very inconvenient. But I didn't want to start edit wars so I uploaded 6 image separately and created a category about them till we decide what to do with those pictures. 22:47, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
I'll say it... they're just fancolor. You can see how random they choose the cover to color and X Drake... well, he's pretty clear took randomly too. so, can you give us any reference or proof about that being "Oda's team" works? 22:52, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I have proof but you'd better ask Gal to explain since he has the Japanese text that says it. 22:54, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Replacing the black and white with coloured versions would be the easiest option and the best option. It saves time creating a template and then applying the switch on page and having to add the photo along with it. -- 22:57, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. 22:58, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

If they're official, that means we're obligated to have them as a wiki devoted to everything One Piece related. That doesn't mean we should value them more than the original versions, just that we should have the color versions as well. It actually wouldn't be a lot of work to add them all as a switch template, as images in chapter infoboxes are now automated. All we need to do is edit the chapter box template and make sure the color versions are uploaded with the right file name, and the wiki will do most of the work for us. Since it's not that much work, we should just have both. 03:10, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and since these color versions of the chapters are coming out, we should probably have an article or some information about them somewhere on the wiki. 03:12, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm fine with having colored images, but is a switch template really necessary? They're not really that different except for color. We can just have the colored images replace it. 03:15, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Put them on here Cover_Page. The chapter articles should only use the original covers. SeaTerror (talk) 03:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

On a sidenote this is the message the uploader left. "Colored version from the digital "Color edition" put out by Shueisha. You can find color volumes 1-65 on Amazon.co.jp, Kinokuniya, and other digital booksellers. The normal black/white is labeled as a "Monochrome version." It says put out by Shueisha so do we even know if Oda colored them himself? SeaTerror (talk) 03:48, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Regardless if Oda did it, if it comes from an official source (Shueisha, in this case), then that might be something we could take. 04:20, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

If they weren't colored by Oda then we shouldn't use them as an "official" source. They should still be uploaded. SeaTerror (talk) 05:54, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Upload them somewhere, whatever. But the chapter pages should still have the original pictures. So either use the switch or do like ST suggested and put the color versions on the Cover Page article. 07:21, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Let's use a switch template then. 08:47, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I support the switch, but also poll if we should use them to replace some low detail anime images. 13:39, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Of course we will. 13:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

A switch is better than putting them on Cover Page because the table for color spreads there is already huge and hard to deal with, especially when you need to see all the covers, or when you're looking for a broken file link. And they would be way easier to find on each chapter's article. 14:23, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

True that. 14:26, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh god, not another friggin' switch template. Here's an idea, since their colorer seems to be the subject of argument, how about we hold off on going update crazy (again) until we learn more about this? 15:13, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

They're published by Shueisha. They're on the same level, if not higher then the anime. 15:16, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

They still look like someone from deviantart did them. Using them just because they're in color would be like driving with your feet. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea. 15:25, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Except they look way better and more polished. 15:27, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I replace black and white manga images with colored ones. If galaxy replaces anime images, I will revert him. You seriously prefer the black and white pics for the infoboxes when we have access to colored ones? 15:30, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

You're being hypocritical Staw, since you also replaced numerous anime images. There shouldn't be a problem replacing anime images further down the road if the colored manga version is of higher quality. I've seen plenty of talk pages where people voted anime over manga simply because of the color. 15:32, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

No no Gal. I didn't replace any anime images. I uploaded them for the history and the reverted. 15:33, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Some of them, like that one with X Drake you showed me, are completely half-assed. I cite that picture because only the people in it are colored. Everything else is still black and white. I would rather have black and white than something that looks like it was colored by a fanboy. I'm willing to bet that Drake pic isn't the only one either. There are bound to be more half-assed ones like it out there, you're gonna want to upload them just because they're "more polished". This is one of the few times where the images actually look crappier in color. 15:37, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I think they look like crap. 15:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

{Edit Conflict)I don't have access to those images and gal linked me on chat but all the images I replaced (that are not more than 5) are manga infobox images with black and white colors. You said you don't like the colors. If you don't like the colors of a specific image just revert. But when we have the possibility to replace the black and white images with colored ones in general, why not do it. I know that there will be many stupid images not good enough to be used but if there are only 10 or 20 of them, we shouldn't stop updating the black and white pics in general. I know they look kinda like fanart but that's because you are used to Oda's drawings and those are not drawn by Oda., but they will improve the site's appearance. 15:45, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I can only see the color images creating conflicts. Even if it's just ten or twenty as you say, that's ten to twenty edit wars we're going to have to deal with, minimum. It's better to just not use them. People are going to think they're fanart because they were colored digitally and in some cases rather poorly. We would be better off avoiding the whole problem if we just didn't use them. I can only see bad things happening if we decide to use even some of them. 15:52, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Kuro could do a better job colouring those. They're awful. 15:54, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with DP. 15:55, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Poll it then. Gonna have to use a bunch of different options though.

Should we use colored manga images over black and white images (if quality allows).

Should we use colored manga images over anime images (if it's better quality).

Should we upload colored manga image chapter covers?

Should we create a switch for them, or put them on the cover page page?

16:22, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

You neglected to add the option to not use them at all. 16:27, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Poll hasn't been made yet anyways, but I was thinking of the big options. It will be included in the poll. 16:29, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

There should not be a switch template at all nor should the the originals get replaced. I already linked to the proper article for them. SeaTerror (talk) 16:39, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

We should make two polls, one for the chapter covers and one for the colored images. 18:21, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

DP look at the X Drake image again. It is fully in color. That's when Drake is at Kaido's base, and therefore it's snowing and dark. You can see the coloring in it. here's the manga for reference. You can see that they color the whole image here and even here.

I'm gonna draft the poll below. 20:26, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Even if they did color the whole thing, they still did a bad job of it. 20:33, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

This is how I would word it:

First Poll: Will we use the colored chapter covers and how? We won't use them at all. We will make a switch template and use both the colored and the black and white version We will replace the black and white versions with colored versions

Second Poll: Will we use the colored images to replace others and how? We won't use them at all We will only replace black and white infoboxes We will replace every image when the quality is higher. 20:34, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Let's not talk about replacing the anime yet. The anime actually does look better in some cases, and there are quite a few colored manga that don't look very good. If we're going to poll this, let's let the anime in a second subject. Not all images should be replaced. 21:47, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but the poll should include that option. Only Gal will vote it anyway. 21:49, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

The poll should ask "Can colored manga images replace anime if they're better then them". I see no reason why nobody would vote for this. 14:44, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Cause they won't be better than the anime images. 15:19, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

They might be. You don't know. 20:20, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Not more than 10. 20:21, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Wrong, since you still don't know. 20:22, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Because sometimes the anime will still look better than the manga. Not all the time, but there will be anime images that are better. 20:22, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Dude we will only replace extremely LQ anime images. 20:25, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, the poll is way better now, shall we open it? 20:26, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I have yet to see a source that states the images were coloured by Oda himself and not by some random person. As evidenced here (original colour) in comparison with here (digitally coloured) the colour palette used is different that the one Oda is using. This is understandable since it takes a lot of effort to create colour covers or double spreads, which can be translated from many hours to a few days. Hence the reason why we don't get them much often.

Not using Oda makes sense in that regard since it would help to ease his work load instead of adding to it. Still though, the difference is obvious. Since the coloured versions originate from Shueisha we, as a One Piece wiki, are required to illustrate them but not use them to replace the original manga material. An exception to this would the monochrome version, only if (and I'm assuming here) they are unedited digital copies of the manga. MasterDeva (talk) 10:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

About the chapter covers, since they are definitely gonna be used on the wiki, and if they are added in the cover page the page will become really huge, I suggest creating a page about every single volume, where we will add all the information about the specific volume and all the colored chapter covers of the volume. If we do that, we will have medium sized pages and the navigation will be way easier. there is also a discussion about separating the volume pages on this talk page so I thought it would be a great idea to do that since unless we do that both the chapters and volumes page and the cover page will be too huge and inconvenient. 19:51, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we didn't quite have all the information needed to start this poll, but whatever. My main concern is using them with a switch template on chapter pages, where the black and white version is default. I don't think the wiki would allow us to even add 710 images to one page, whether it's Cover Page or a brand new one. That's just way too much data for one page, let alone how confusing the interface would be. I don't see the harm in adding them to chapter articles via a switch template. It makes them easier to find, and it doesn't create any difficulties in editing since the switch template is automated. And as the non-default version, people don't even have to look at them unless they click on the switch tab. It doesn't take away from the chapter articles to have them there. 19:53, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * If there are technical issues involved, I wouldn't have a problem if the switch option was used for the images. As long the original version is the default one that is. We could use them in the chapter articles. First and foremost though, we need to clarify the limits of the over page article before we go down that path. MasterDeva (talk) 20:21, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

They weren't done by Oda which is why they do not belong on chapter articles. SeaTerror (talk) 19:55, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Who said we can't have things that weren't done by Oda in chapter articles? It's Official One Piece releases of the chapters, I don't see why we can't have them on the chapter articles. They're official. 19:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah JSD I agree that adding them in the chapter pages with a switch template is the best solution but apparently the other users disagree so the solution I suggested is the best solution possible since we will have 70 new medium sized pages were people can find all the information about the specific volume and it's the perfect place to add the colored chapter covers. Creating 70 pages is not that hard after all and that talk page never decided what to do with the volume pages. 20:07, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It's not their legitmacy that's in question, it's their appearance. Frankly, they look like crap. They look like something you could find on deviantart. Some of them aren't even totally colored, but just had the contrast changed. Someone at Shueisha just used the color fill tool to excess on these. 20:09, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

"Some of them aren't even totally colored". Give me an example. 20:13, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Like that X Drake one you're so fond of. If you look, some of the backgrounds merely had their contrasts altered rather than color being inserted. 20:16, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Here. They forgot to color the sky on a few panels. I don't even draw and I'm disappointed at that. 20:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It's snow. 20:18, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The sky wasn't supposed to be colored in that Nada. They only color things that were supposed to be colored in the black and white manga. Usually, sky comes in when there are clouds in the sky. 20:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

So what, the sky just disappears? No, let's not make up excuses for them. It's inconsistent coloring. 20:26, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Not really. It's supposed to have a white background. It's more about the focus on Whitebeard's ability. 20:30, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oda didn't color it either. 20:33, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Official when it comes to chapters ONLY means Oda. SeaTerror (talk) 20:44, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oda doesn't color anything except for some intros of the chapter. The thing is that these new colors look bad because they never were supposed to be colored! They were made to be in black and white. So if you tried coloring it, there's so little shading or contrast that it looks terrible. 20:46, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, let's cancel the poll since the discussion isn't over yet. 20:53, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

What more discussion could we possibly have? The poll was made because people kept going back and forth over what they think is better. 20:54, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

As you can see the discussion isn't over and more options were suggested, so we should cancel the poll till the discussion is over. 20:56, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

yeah, cancel it. 21:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. We should discuss this properly first before we decide on what the best option is. MasterDeva (talk) 21:09, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Great, I will cancel it then. 21:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

So here's how I believe we should word the new poll

Poll 1:

Will we use the colored chapter images to replace others? Yes No

Poll 2:

How will we use the colored cover pages?

We won't use them at all.

We will add them on the chapter pages with a switch template

We will add them in the Cover Page

We will create pages for every volume where we will add both the colored chapter covers and all the other information about the volumes.

Do you like it? 07:33, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I guess it's good. 16:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's redundant to have a "not use them at all" option in a poll separate from using them. There should be one poll that asks IF we should use them in any way. We can determine their overall use later. 17:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, let's make a poll about whether we will use them or not and when that poll is over, we will make another one about how to use them 19:14, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

We should be sure to link the discussion to the Chapters and Volumes talk then, as that is where that issue is discussed. And while not related to the issue of colored manga images, that's where my alternative solution to having volume articles (creating redirects for every volume that send you to the right part of the chapters and volume page) is proposed as well.

And we should take everyone's signatures off the canceled poll, since that's a lot of space here, and it's kind of confusing. Just put an update in the community messages that states the first poll was cancelled when the new one starts. 14:28, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

But even if we make redirects, it will not be useful for the colored chapter covers.

P.s i removed the entire poll since i don't see a reason why it should stay here. 14:34, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

We don't remove that stuff. Its for archival purposes. SeaTerror (talk) 18:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Shall I go ahead and make the first poll? 21:05, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Please do. 03:35, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

The poll is still badly worded. "Should we use the colored manga images to replace other image?" It should state "Should we allow them to replace other images, with discussion?" 13:12, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Change it then. 13:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I think people get the idea Gal. I'm sorry not everyone's English is as good as yours, but it's not everyone's first language.-- 13:20, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

SHB, I seriously hate it when people insult and offend other people indirectly. It's just not cool bro. 13:23, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

How was that insulting or offending him? I was merely pointing out that people clearly understand what the poll means and that not everyone's English is perfect, especially when it's their second language. Oh and don't bro me. 13:39, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's not meant to say people are stupid for not understanding it, it's just to make it as clear as possible, so people don't think we're going to replace them ALL with the images. 13:42, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

So pointing out "that not everyone's English is perfect" isn't offensive? 13:47, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

No.  13:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Good job, bro! 13:54, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Lelouch stop. Now. 13:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. 14:01, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to not have followed the discussion very closely, but can someone point me to a source acknowledging these pics as official? Could not find any in the forum, and it's a major element in the decision.

They're available for download from Japanese Amazon. Shueisha is listed as the publisher. 17:29, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. OK, so there's actually nothing new. Shueisha has been doing this with a lot of mangas apparently. I doubt Oda has anything to do with that, he's got other things to do than supervising computer colorization for the e-book market… Plus, while I found the colored digital volumes on Amazon, I couldn't find the pics XScar uploaded. I suppose he took them directly from the volumes he bought. How are we supposed to check that they are not fanart? To sum up: 1. nothing new anyway, 2. work of some random colorists unlikely supervised by Oda, 3. hard to check for validity.

Poll 1
This poll was canceled because the issue was not properly discussed.

This poll will decide whether we should use the colored version volume images on our wiki at all. The poll is now open. It will close on June 8 at 20:00 UTC. To vote you must have at least 300 edits and be a registered user for at least three months.

Should we allow the use of colored manga images from the digital volumes in order to replace normal images?

1. Yes
 * 1)  20:32, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  20:34, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  20:36, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) SeaTerror (talk) 21:37, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) -- 22:26, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  22:43, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  09:15, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) If it is 100% proven that those are legit images.  10:21, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  19:56, May 26, 2013 (UTC) If the importance of color schemes is "Manga>Anime>Colored Manga" I'm fine with this.
 * 10)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

2. No
 * 1)  20:43, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  23:49, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  00:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  03:01, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) MasterDeva (talk) 03:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  10:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC) (not replacement, even if 100% official.)

Poll 2
How should we implement the colored chapter covers onto the pages?

1. Create a switch template on the chapter pages.
 * 1)  20:33, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  20:34, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  20:36, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  22:44, May 25, 2013 (UTC) we should also have the 'original'
 * 5)  09:15, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  19:54, May 26, 2013 (UTC) If original is default, there's no harm. We can't have 710 huge files on one page.

2. Add them to the Cover Page page.
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 21:37, May 25, 2013 (UTC) (or a new article for them and they do not belong on chapter articles)
 * 2)  22:27, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  00:03, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  00:14, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  00:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  03:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7) MasterDeva (talk) 03:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  10:22, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  10:25, May 26, 2013 (UTC) Make them a sub-page of the Cover Page article, like we did with the Galleries of the Straw Hat crew members.
 * 10)  11:05, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

3. Do not upload the colored chapter covers.

4. Replace the old Black and White covers.
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
''This poll will decide whether we will use the colored manga images or not. This poll in now open and will close on June 5 at 11:00 UTC. To vote you must be a registered user for at least three months and have at least 300 edits. The options are below.''

Poll 1
Should we use the colored chapter covers on this wiki?

Yes

 * 1)  11:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:08, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 15:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

No

 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:49, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14:49, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 16:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:28, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Official or not, they look terrible.)
 * 17:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (as Nada said)
 * 1)  (hard to check for officiality)

Poll 2
Should we allow the colored manga images to replace other images, with discussion?

Yes

 * 1)  11:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC) As long as they are of good quality.
 * 1) (Why isn't there a "without discussion"?)
 * 15:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:20, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

No

 * 11:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:38, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:47, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:08, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:25, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 16:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:33, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Wait, if this option wins, will they be used at all?)
 * 17:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  (Nada, they would be used for example on Cover Page, I suppose… Not to replace other pics)