Talk:Gomu Gomu no Mi/Gear Fourth Techniques

Geppo?
Can we assume that Luffy was using Geppo to fly? Also what about the zig zag motion of Snake/Serpent Cannon? Was that Geppo or just the spring retracting as he stretched forward?

Anima40 (talk) 10:06, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

No. We didn't see him fly, we saw him propel himself forwards in the air. They're two different things. The motion of that last punch was him actively changing the direction he threw it in.

11:59, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Geppou is basically propelling in the air. Luffy was pushing against the air with the compressive force extremely similarly to Geppo.Grievous67 (talk) 14:59, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Pandaman reference
Depends on the translation but Boundman or Poundman sounds like Pandaman in Japanese and he looks like a panda during gear 4th -- Brocodile   Talk 10:53, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

So.. is gear 4th all about suppressing/compressing the air?

He looks more like a Gorilla

He does look more to a Gorilla than a Panda, it would make sense seeing how his animal theme is generally associated with Primates, specifically Monkeys. AsuraDrago 18:44, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Elephants and hawks aren't primates. It definitely doesn't look like a panda though. SeaTerror (talk) 19:00, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Well his attacks have Elephant & Hawk names, I'm taking about his physical characteristics, mainly this form. Genrally he is associated as a Monkey for animal themes. AsuraDrago 19:02, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

The article is perfect as it is anyway. It doesn't state anything about looking like an animal. SeaTerror (talk) 20:09, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

The article is fine, I'm talking about his appearance in the form, you don't think he resembles a Gorilla? In Volume 20's SBS a fan asked what animal each member resembles, his was a Monkey. This would be more of a trivia thing. AsuraDrago 01:10, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Bounceman
i thought it was Bounceman. Are we gonna have to wait to confirm his or did i miss something?ASL Pirates 14:41, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

According to the TL Note on Mangastream: "Bound as in Bounce, the Kanji read Bounce Man." AsuraDrago 18:47, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

so was i right then or did Manga stream get it wrong? ASL Pirates 00:39, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

It's Boundman. Mangapanda messed up (what a shock) and had it as "Poundman", but Stream and Aohige confirmed it's Bound. 01:51, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

I think we have to wait for RAW to come out (though I don't know how the techniques already have their kanji). 02:50, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, the raws are out and it's バウンドマン (Baundoman) = Boundman. Closing this. 21:26, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Kage is correct; that says "Boundman". MizuakiYume (talk) 03:02, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

The Viz translation are using Bounceman. I think we can take that as more official than a fan translation.72.221.51.81 21:15, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

It's not a fan translation. It's literally Boundman in Japanese. 21:18, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

It literally says "Baundoman" in Japanese, not Boundman, since it's not written in Roman characers. There is more than one way to transliterate Japanese, and since Viz is the official English translation, their gloss of "Baundoman" should count above what is, yes, a fan transliteration. 72.221.51.81 01:33, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Well, given that Baundo is the kana way of writing the English word "Bound" and Oda frequently uses such English words in this series...yeah, no, Boundman/Bounceman makes more sense than Baundoman.--Xilinoc (talk) 06:50, May 14, 2015 (UTC)

Python
Is "Python" a named technique? It seems similar to Snake Shot, but used as a means to get Luffy's arm close enough for a separate technique. 03:25, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

He did refer to his fist as "Python", but then he named the attack Culverin, it does looks like a powered-up up version of Snake Shot. AsuraDrago 18:41, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

I think Python's just a shorthand name for the Culverin.--Xilinoc (talk) 18:54, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me that he just calls his fist/arm "Python" for some reason. 20:49, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's different from Snake Shot. Snake Shot was like a whip (similar to Kalifa's Shigan Whip but Python is more like him making it bounce of the air similarly to how he does geppo now to home on his enemy

Grievous67 (talk) 12:11, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Anyone got a raw? 18:23, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

http://i.imgur.com/2N2kkQ1.png 18:28, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

It looks like Python's underlying kanji is the same "Great Snake" used for Culverin, so I'd say that's good evidence of it referring to the same thing, similar to how Red Hawk's kanji directly references Ace's Hiken and all.--Xilinoc (talk) 18:40, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

It is indeed the same "great snake" kanji used in Culverin, which is written as "great snake cannon." I'm not entirely sure if this makes Python a separate technique from Culverin. Maybe the full attack is "Python Culverin"? Since the other Gear Fourth attacks are (animal)(weapon) format. MizuakiYume (talk) 20:08, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

That makes sense, but it's speculation for now. Luffy only says "Gomu Gomu no Culverin", both times he uses it. Maybe there was a mistake or something? Guess we'll see if it gets changed in the volume. In any case, "Python" definitely doesn't seem like a separate technique, since it doesn't even have the typical quotation marks used for attack names. 20:32, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Why was my edit deleted?
I don't know who so I can't ask them, but why? This isn't like that time I asked about mera mera. what exactly was wrong with my question this time? This is supposed to be a talk page where you can discuss or ask questions. Lightbuster30 (talk) 19:08, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * It was me DIO and I did so because what you posted wasn't a question about the content of the article or a discussion on a possible change, it was "I think Oda combined all our favorite ideas into one form". That doesn't belong on a talk page.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:38, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes and I suggested that theory because I happened to notice certain aspects and relations gear 4 and it's theories. I just wanted to get people's opinion on it. See if I was the only one Lightbuster30 (talk) 20:02, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * We aren't supposed to include fan-theories on the wiki. Only facts and what has been said and shown on the series itself. Besides, I doubt Oda would have gone reading online for ideas for a series he's had panned out for so long. AsuraDrago 20:05, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * I thought that fan theories only applied to the actual pages, not the talk versions. I mean come on, fans predicted it would have to deal with compression, and in a way with the kong gun they were kind of right. I have seen fan theories on the Sabo talk page before when dragon picked someone up at sea, which is why I was confused about my own. Lightbuster30 (talk) 20:20, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * Fan theories have no place on the wiki, except on the mythbusters/rumor page that debunks certain major rumors or false information. Oda is much more creative, I highly doubt he would go reading online to come up with ideas for a series he's been planning for so long ahead. There have been multiple theories from fans all over online speculating and coming up with ideas on Fourth Gear. Sabo was a different matter, he was alluded to still be alive. We know this since it actually happened in the series. AsuraDrago 22:51, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Gear Second and Third
"whereas before both Gear Second and Gear Third were unable to do much damage"

Since when was Gear Third not able to damage Doflamingo?

Gear second has the speed but the power is not enough, third has the power but its too slow and four is somewhere in between both ie a balance. Chapter 783 made this very clear.

88 movement (talk) 12:12, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Yup, I agree. I changed it now. Hope this description is better. 12:17, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Well he did block a Elephant Gun barehanded. (Granted he used strings to help) But It came from his own strength as well. Meanwhile when he not only tries to block, but does so with full haki, he gets sent flying to the next town, literally wondering what the heck just happened. According to him his base punches are like gear 3+gear2 and when he pushes his arm inwards it does 10 times the damage. Dang talk about powerful. Lightbuster30 (talk) 20:30, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Still the new description is somewhat less vague than just "no damage". 22:35, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Just tells us how powerful Doffy (and by extention gear 4) really is Lightbuster30 (talk) 18:43, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Gear second included in fourth
Imho it should be specified the G4 includes the G2 by default.

It can be noted by the steam constantly covering Rufy and it might be the reson why he keeps his speed while beeing so massive.

Definitive proof might arrive with the anime but the steam is already pretty revealing188.217.122.169 11:20, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

If you look his body is steaming, so its safe to say he's combined with 2nd Gear. AsuraDrago 20:55, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

50 minute time limit
I can't edit it myself because the page is locked, but we know that Luffy was in gear 4th for at least 50 minutes, then his recovery time was 10 minutes before the bird cage ends. Should we state that can stay in his Gear 4th Boundman form for up to 50 minutes? Or should we assume that he might last longer next time? 144.132.116.106 04:53, June 12, 2015 (UTC) Anima40 (talk) 04:54, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

I think we should wait for next time since we've only seen him use it once. 07:56, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

He hasn't used it for 50 minutes. The birdcage started shrinking way before he activated Gear 4th at even before he activated it Doffy said that it was 30-20 mins left. However he later speeds up the birdcage making it shrink even faster so the time is all screwed up. We know that Gear 3rd implies as much time being chibi Luffy for how much time he used Gear 3rd but that still stays as speculation. Even without that you can clearly see that 2 chapters is not 50 minutes

Grievous67 (talk) 08:37, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

But that's wrong, literally the chapter he first states "you're in my way, Gear 4th etc etc" Doffy was taunting him that he was 1 hour left, and then pointed out scary scenarios of each time interval. Eg at 30 minutes the sick will die, at 20 minutes such and such will happen. So I think you've interpeted that wrong. Anima40 (talk) 08:57, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

Color?
Should the appearance of the Anime's version of Gear Fourth(red hues instead of black) be added in the description or trivia?Lokker G (talk) 20:26, January 17, 2016 (UTC)

Add it to the revelant trivia section(s). 23:07, January 17, 2016 (UTC)

The anime always adds an extra tint of color to the standard black coating, shouldn't this be in general haki trivia? AsuraDrago 00:14, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, Drago Mhj0808 (talk) 04:24, January 18, 2016 (UTC)

Tankman
Before we start the editing, I believe it's a Situational Forms and another form of Gear Four because it relied on Luffy being obese just like Mizu Luffy relied on drinking a lot of water. Rhavkin (talk) 10:25, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

He says "Tank Man Full Version". So it seems Tank Man is another form of G4, it's just the super fatness that's improvisation. 10:30, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Improv is still situational.

10:31, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Point is that there's a regular Tankman form as well, which is not improv. Otherwise it wouldn't have been specified as a different version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty it's "full" as in "full stomach" version. 10:38, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Hmm. Let's get a proper translation of it then.

10:39, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Even if there is a regular form, until it is shown it speculation and shouldn't be here. Rhavkin (talk) 11:02, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

No evidence that it's a purely situational form. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:04, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Well, we've never seen it before, and it happened after Luffy ate a lot of food. That seems situational.

12:26, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Thing is though that we don't know that Tankman is entirely dependent on him eating lots of food Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:55, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

We also don't know that it isn't. That makes it speculative so it shouldn't be here until we know, but at least we can agree that if it depends on Luffy being full in situational.

All we do know is that this is a form that Luffy didn't activated until he was full. This form is powerful enough to blast a yonko right hand man and negates the Gomu Gomu no Mi disadvantage against stabbing attacks, and if he could use it so why did he let himself be exhausted twice against Doflamingo? Why did he let the fight with Cracker go on for eleven hours? The only logical answer at this point is that's because he wasn't full. Rhavkin (talk) 14:40, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

The assumption lies with you because there's no indication that Luffy has to wait to be full of food to activate it. As to why the battle went on for 11 hours, it was because Cracker kept attacking Luffy with Biscuit Soldiers, so when he charged at Luffy himself Luffy could take the opportunity. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 15:23, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Wait, is it Tankman Full Version or just Tankman? Meshack (talk) 15:33, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

"Fight... Run... Eat... Repeat..." He wasn't always under attack. No one said it was the soldier attacking. The indication is that he didn't used it until he was, your point is valid only if we see it again when he isn't obese. Barto mafia family (talk) 15:42, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

"Full Version" may be situational, but "Tankman" shouldn't be. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 15:56, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

What do you think about using the same method as the Straw Hats History tabs? But instead of before\after it will be Bound\Tank. Barto mafia family (talk) 17:18, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

It obviously just means he was full and not part of the attack name. SeaTerror (talk) 17:33, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

No need to tab since they're both G4 and the page isn't long. 17:39, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Your suggestion is relevant only if we agree that Tankman isn't situational. Please focus on the subject. Tabs doesn't have to only be for length and it will look better then because other the Muscle Balloon and tribal haki they're completely different. Barto mafia family (talk) 18:26, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Tabs are literally only for length. SeaTerror (talk) 18:33, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

So what you're saying is a compromise between separating Gear(s) Four inside this page and different tabs? Rhavkin (talk) 18:35, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Rules are meant to be brooken ST.Barto mafia family (talk) 18:36, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

What compromise? The page is fine and easily navigable the way it is. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:37, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

This discussion is about "on which tab should Tankman be included?" With this compromise it both on Gear Fourth Tech. and on a separate tab. Henceforth, compromising. Barto mafia family (talk) 18:44, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

Tankman would only be on this tab. SeaTerror (talk) 20:27, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

To get back on track, it would seem that the "Full Version" tacked on at the end of the declaration of this name is an indication that THIS form is situational - after all, how often is Luffy that full of food? However, the fact that it has the name "Tankman" and is in effect an alternate form of "Boundman" indicates to me that it belongs on the Gear Fourth page, as it's a form of that Gear. So in this case, I think we can safely leave it here.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:54, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

The literal translation is "Tankman" Full (as in stuffed with food) Version. There's probably a normal Tankman that looks different than he does in this chapter. 23:03, October 5, 2016 (UTC)

OMG!! "There's probably a normal Tankman that looks different..." Probably is speculative! And again, even IF there is another version that doesn't mean "Full" isn't situational. Rhavkin (talk) 04:43, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

Both "Overview" and "Techniques Utilized" have split titles and the sub-tab will solve the problem. If, like some people believe, Gear Four has many forms so eventually it will be lengthy enough for Sub-tabs so why not start now? Barto mafia family (talk) 08:52, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

Other Gear pages have multiple split titles due to timeskip and haki/no haki. There's really no problem. Also Rhavkin, I suggest you drop the attitude. 09:08, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

The other split titles are for the same form, this is new. It's a form within a form so it has no predetermined rules. Barto mafia family (talk) 09:31, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

We don't need to get new tabs, having all the general information on one page beats the idea of splitting it. Just do what Xil says and you'll have a straightforward and simple answer. It may be situational, it may not be, but it's a form of Gear 4th, so it doesn't matter. Whatever we pick can be considered speculative in one way or another, anyways. 15:18, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

If there is a possibility it's situational then this discussion is still needed. Let's not open a can of worms and start including situational form in the gears because then the argument for all of the situational form should be in regular techniques tab.There are clear evidence that this form appearance is because of Luffy recent massive eating, and none to say that "Tankman" is a separate form.

There's appear to be a group of high ranking users, aside from the admins, whom's vote pack more weight and those who oppose are inherently wrong. There are rules in this wikia, and we have no real reason to believe that it isn't situational and the rules say it's situational until proven otherwise, but at the moment, saying Tankman is another regular form is speculation. That group is apparently above the rules and can break them as they see fit (*cough* Tenryubito *cough*). All we know at this point is that this is a form only used when Luffy was stomach was full of food. In the past he was full of water and shadows and both of those forms are situationals so what's the different?

And as for my attitude, Kage, it;s because the word "probably" is a red flag for "do not include" but when it's against Kaido's opinion the rule against speculation is nulled and my attitude is for the hypocrisy. Rhavkin (talk) 17:02, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

There's a clear majority for not splitting it when only one person wants it split. Closing it. SeaTerror (talk) 17:48, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

That's not what the discussion is mainly about, ST.

I apologise on behalf of the wiki for how unanimous we can be. It's not like we have, you know, a conflict on every talk page we open. How about we put it in both the gear 4th and the situational tab? Would that be a compromise suiting people's different viewpoints? 17:54, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

It was only shown under Gear Fourth. Putting it under situational is speculation. SeaTerror (talk) 17:58, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

It was only shown while Luffy was full. Putting it under regular Gear Four tech. is speculation. Rhavkin (talk) 08:43, October 7, 2016 (UTC)

Luffy is not always going to be full, hence "Full Version". There's obviously another form (by the name) of Gear Fourth Tankman so Full Version is situational. But then again, he could just turn himself into a balloon and use Tankman but we aren't informed on any of this so let's just keep it on Gear Fourth Meshack (talk) 12:12, October 7, 2016 (UTC)

Well Meshack, since all we know about "Tankman" is the situational technique "full version" it should be counted as a situational form and if and when we see the regular Tankman then we can add it to this tab. Rhavkin (talk) 17:58, October 7, 2016 (UTC)

Who cares if Tankman is situational or not. He used Gear 4th -> reason enough to add it to the Gear 4th page. Is full version situational -> yes, according to certain perspectives -> add it to the situational page as well. Stop being so stubborn and learn to think of compromises. Every discussion, every talk page is like "YES ITS LIKE THIS" and "NO ITS NOT LIKE THIS". This won't get ANYONE anywhere, ever. 18:29, October 7, 2016 (UTC)

Considering Luffy has only ever used it in Gear Fourth you cannot say it is situational. That's speculation. SeaTerror (talk) 23:17, October 7, 2016 (UTC)

List of attacks Luffy used in combination with Gears that aren't on the Gear tab:
 * Giant Thor Axe while he was in Gear Third- in situational tech. tab.
 * Giant Jet Shell while he was in Gear Second- in Gear Third tech. tab.

The situational tab are for attacks that require additions to regular attacks including combo attacks (that require other people), Ogon series (that require a huge gold orb), Champion series (that require a wax suit), Mizu form with water, Nightmare form with shadows, Afro (form and requirement), and now Version series (that require a certain amount of stomach contents)

And to be clear: I'm not saying there isn't a regular "Gear Fourth: Tankman", but I don't think it's right to add something we haven't seen yet. Rhavkin (talk) 13:40, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

Just do what AoD said. 14:45, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

Hey, here's an idea that might groove with everybody. Delete "Situational Techniques" as a stand-alone article. Move it's contents into the other tabs as a subsection. So Mizu Luffy would be put under the Situational Techniques section of "Techniques", Giant Thor Axe can be put under the Situational Techniques section of "Gear Second Techs.", and Tank Man Full Ver. can be put in the Situational Techniques section of "Gear Fourth". 15:22, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the Situational tab but instead of deleting it, rename it to "Team Combinations" Like Black Leg Style and Santoryu tabs, and leave the team attacks on it. I checked Category:Specific Tab Templates (can't link this) and Gumo Gumo no Mi is the only one with this tab.

However, even on this possible new design, Full Version still should be under the situational Gear Fourth tech. section. Rhavkin (talk) 15:41, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. 15:50, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

Wouldn't the regular techniques tab be too long if we add those? Barto mafia family (talk) 19:24, October 11, 2016 (UTC)

I don't mind. Do you? 03:26, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm just pointing something out. If it is not a problem then there is no problem. Barto mafia family (talk) 11:29, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

I kinda like situational techniques, personally (aka not for much of a logical reason). Here's a alternative solution though: Just use See to double list it on both pages, but keep the info on one page. 13:45, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

This technique depend on Luffy being full. As long as there is a situational tech. tab, that's where it should be listed. Rhavkin (talk) 13:52, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

"This technique depend on Luffy being full" Citation needed. SeaTerror (talk) 18:47, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

"Full Version". VERSION. When we see the regular Tankman, then we can add it (and only it) to this page. Rhavkin (talk) 18:50, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

No that's speculation. We don't know if there are any other versions because literally nothing has been shown. That's all there is to it. SeaTerror (talk) 19:12, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

Luffy himself called it a version. What more do you need? Rhavkin (talk) 19:57, October 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * For fuck's sake let's just poll it.


 * 20:06, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

You're jumping the gun Nova, and you forgot the compromises. I'll say "Gear Fourth Only" but under a different tab or Situational title. Let's face the facts: Nobody know if there are more forms and if this one depends on full stomach. This form was just introduced and while both Rhavy and ST claimed the other possibility is speculation, they missed the fact that they are both right. The two compromise Aod and Ryu suggested are the best options (mine is a close second), and while Rhavy has a (reasonable) condition, and ST being ST, I think the poll should be about the compromises and not the subject at hand. I believe this will also help future discussions from reaching the "YES IT'S LIKE THIS" and "NO IT'S NOT LIKE THIS" that Aod talked about and will help this wiki to actually move forward. Barto mafia family (talk) 20:42, October 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * You're certainly right, Barto. Thank you for your input. Might have to extend the poll some further. 20:49, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Any proposals for changes in the poll can be made here. Please feel free to add stuff as I'm not certain either if this many options will make the poll efficient. 20:49, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

Forum:Tabbers and html ruby sub tabs are against the rules. I had to remove the last poll option. SeaTerror (talk) 07:31, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Sub-tab aren't tabbers. I'm talking about what's in the Straw Hats members history tab. And next time please discuss your opinion before deleting anything. Barto mafia family (talk) 11:10, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Aren't there a bit too many options? I'm against Gear Fourth only and both but I'll be okay with any of the other options. My understanding of Barto's "poll the compromises" suggestion is "poll only the compromises" and make the "my-way-only-sayers" grow up. Rhavkin (talk) 15:29, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Everyone was against the subtab thing and it's not even relevant to the issue at hand, so remove it. This many options will cause votes to split badly. 15:52, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Redraft. Hope this one suits everyone. 16:31, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand the "Keep only non-Gear techniques on the situational tab, integrate the rest" option. Could you explain it? Rhavkin (talk) 16:43, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

We were toying around with it, but now that I look at it, it only applies on Tankman and that random movie move no one cares about. I'll remove it. 16:48, October 13, 2016 (UTC)

Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory
Since the Whole Cake Island Arc is basically references to fairytales, could Tankman be a reference to the blueberry girl from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory?-- 4th Six Paths (talk) 15:47, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

No. That is not a Fairy Tale. You would have to make that same argument for every time Luffy used Gum Gum Balloon as well. 15:51, October 8, 2016 (UTC)