Talk:Donquixote Rosinante

Name
Are we going with Corazón over Corazon just because of the Spanish feel to Dressrosa?

10:47, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Yes. 10:52, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

His name should be Donquixote Corazón. --Meganoide (talk) 12:05, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Good point. I agree. It's not a big change to make.

12:12, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

I will invest in this. *throws money*  12:17, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

I dissagree. 12:19, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Why? He's known to be Doflamingo's brother, and speculating that he's got a different family name like Ace is stupid. From the information we have, Corazón is a Donquixote.

12:21, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Seeing as there's two separate points here: Oh yeah, the manga spells it without the accent. Time to go back and change things.
 * 1) Should be Corazon since the name on the back of Law's jacket didn't have the accent (Chapter 747 pg 14, and clearer when Law and the others were at the cafe in the anime)
 * 2) We've never added a last name unless they've actually been called that in-story. See the Riku family, for example. Seems like we're getting a flashback next chapter (or sometime soon, at least), so I think it's better to wait... 12:22, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

12:26, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should change it to Donquixote Corazon. The Riku family we'll have to look at individually, due to the special circumstances surrounding some of them. 16:25, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

So wer'e 4 (Mega, myself, Fin and DP) against 2 (Staw and Zodiaque) here. Jade said she'd weigh in after school, but I just want to get this resolved fast. Any chance of an administrative decision on this one?

16:49, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

No. 17:03, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, change the page to Donquixote Corazon. He's Doflamingo's brother, they should have the same surname. What more do you want, a blood test to prove that Corazon is one of the Donquixotes? 22:04, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know if I have the right here (with the hasty creation as "Cora" and moving it here and there) but I think it's possible Doflamingo and Corazon are step/sworn brothers like Luffy, Ace and Sabo. Let's wait (unfortunately) for three weeks for more info. 23:14, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

I hate to disagree, but that's speculation. With the facts we have, Corazon is Doflamingo's brother, and hence his family.

23:19, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Brother as in blood relative or step? We don't have enough info. Maybe at least for the RAW. And I support Corazón, as with Trébol. 23:21, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Until we knew otherwise, Ace was Luffy's blood brother. And we can see Corazon on the back of Law's coat in chapter 747, with no accent.

23:24, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

In that case, I suggest Trebol be changed as well. Wanna be consistent. 23:26, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

The difference is we haven't seen Trebol's name in the manga. It's not obvious. I'm undecided about that one...

23:29, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Leave it as just Corazon for now. Also no accent since it's spelled that way. SeaTerror (talk) 05:06, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

It's safe enough to add Donquixote to the title. It's speculation to say that Law was referring to the kind of brotherhood Luffy and Ace had or to say he was a stepbrother. Go with what it says. 06:07, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Brothers don't always have the same last name. SeaTerror (talk) 08:46, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

So are we changing it or not?

10:10, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Adding Donquixote is speculation. Mr. Whatever (talk) 10:31, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

It's 4 vs 4 right now. No clear majority. SeaTerror (talk) 10:32, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

How the hell is it speculation? And more often than not brothers do have the same last name. 16:36, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Leave the accent out of it, because of the previously seen romanization.

As far as his surname, leave that out for now. From what I've read, I think they are related by blood. However, we don't know the extent of that blood relationship. Maybe they have different fathers and different surnames. Maybe Corazon abandoned his true family name, like Ace did. Or maybe he's some redheaded stepchild that the Donquiote family kept in the basement so nobody would find out about him. He probably is a true family member, but we just can't confirm that now. Until it's written, we should leave it out for now. Just wait for intro box in the first flashback chapter, then decide. 16:47, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Nothing more to say for now. 23:52, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Category
Shall I put this in the "deceased characters" category since in that same chapter, he is "murdered" by Doflamingo.

Anyway, sorry for uploading the Luffy vs. Pica since I thought that was a PNG file (OP wiki prefers PNG files). But seriously, that really happened and it is in scanlation. Here's the source >

Gourd Roger (talk) 12:56, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, deceased category. And that's not relevant to this page.

13:11, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Renaming
My deepest apologies, but I renamed the page I've created into here, so it saves me some effort from needing to change things here and there. And besides, I did the Pamu Pamu no Mi like so before. 22:48, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Image
We don't even know if that's Corazon

Joekido (talk) 02:33, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

I would find it hard for Law to show a flashback image of Doflamingo when talking about Corazon. Also, he looks subtly different than Doflamingo. 02:39, May 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * His nose is sharper and more crooked than Doflamingo's. 02:42, May 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * It is OBVIOUSLY just Doffy shown in a menacing light, like he has been a million times. It worries me that you people are in charge of the wiki. 122.59.72.233 02:56, May 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah? (1) The speech bubble "The man who saved my life, and..." is situated where the image is, so it is pretty much Corazon. (2) "You people" have made this wiki into what it is today. 03:12, May 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * The silhuette is just like the younger Doflamingo thats shown at episode 0 I dont think we should put that image on here but w/e it we will change it when its shown more clearly  Brocodile   Talk 09:30, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

As Captain Obvious, all we had to do to stop this argument is to wait for the release of the next chapter which will be released two weeks from now. Gourd Roger (talk) 14:48, May 29, 2014 (UTC)  (Footnote: Wait, I still be forced to used these four tildes. Why!? How do you do those signing things without placing these?)

Next chapter is the 18th of June.

14:52, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

I told you. He does not look like Doflamingo Joekido (talk) 12:39, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, he sorta does. Just a little. 16:30, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Corazon in Episode 0
I think it was corazon and not doflamingo that was shown in that episode! Just comparing the facial features, the chin is far sharper and the nose shape both match the shadowed Corazon appearance! Doflamingos nose is smaller and chin definitely not that pointy! Im not a main contributer to edit pages, but I think this is fairly clear that it was Corazon, and not Doflamingo that was shown 124.180.145.57 07:22, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

And I think you need to realize that that was a montage of future Shichibukai, Corazon didn't even exist yet, and people's features change as time goes by. 07:26, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, we assume it was all future shichibukai, so we assume it was doflamingo. We could easily start saying "the back of crocodile's head was shown only, he was really a girl and oda is hiding it". Im just pointing out that the facial features of Corazon match the strong world person. Also Corazon did exist at that time, he was Laws benefactor 13 years ago, rogers execution was 20 or so years ago, so you're telling me that Corazon was a benefactor at the age of 8? Meaning the age difference between him and doflamingo was over 10 years, and doflamingos mother died when he was 8, so that contradicts your statement 124.180.145.57 07:32, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Corazons Face was perhaps seen already while Gol D. Rogers execution when everybody assumed that it was Donflamingo. So you guys can take the picture of him while the execution instead of the silhouette seen in the manga chapter 749.

I meant he didn't exist as a character. Either way, we're not saying it's him. 17:01, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

We can't be sure about that. I'm putting the example of Brook: he was thought since Laboon arc. So, why that doesn't apply to Corazon? But Doflamingo was young at Roger's execution, that means that he could change his hair style (the only thing that changes everything is the shape of the head in Episode 0.) Dragon NJMB (talk) 05:24, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Over 22 years, Doflamingo's head is allowed to change shape from age 19 to age 41. This discussion is over unless something actually plausible surfaces in support. 06:24, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Really, this is just a theory with barely any basis. The character was shown with Moria, Crocodile, and Mihawk, which are all Warlords. Plus the character shown at the execution had the same attire and personality as Doflamingo himself. We know for a fact that Brook was conceived during the Laboon Arc because of Oda's documents and word. Corazon we basically know nothing about. 06:44, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

No it's doffy, I think he wears earrings as 2 cause they are still brothers at the time, but after kill his brother, Doffy remove 1 earring, Law who respect to Cora later still wearing 2 earrings. (MurasameJupiter (talk) 06:13, June 1, 2014 (UTC))

Not Corazon
The page is wrong.... This is clearly Doflamingo http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140529082328/onepiece/images/3/3f/Corazon_Manga_Infobox.png, how could someone mistake this... He is simply shown in a shady villainous depiction as Law tells the story of how DD killed his brother and Law's mentor , Corazon. Please fix this. The picture and the description belond to Dofy, not Corazon. The only thing we know about him is that he was DD's bro, a top executive of the crew holding the reings of the Hearts Division , Law's mentor and that DD killed him.

~KKylimos

Better to make a new section. Did it for you. The IP is right. I don't see how anybody can think that isn't Doflamingo unless they are going with a twin theory. That is 99% Doflamingo. The other 1% is only if he had a twin. SeaTerror (talk) 16:19, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

The speech bubble "The man who saved my life, and..." is situated right over when Law was describing about Corazon, not when he said "...Doflamingo's younger brother". Based on relativity, this seems plausible he was having a flashback of Corazon. 16:26, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

The theory only works if he was his twin. Otherwise it is Doflamingo because it looks EXACTLY like him. Plus twins rarely ever dress exactly the same. EDIT: Actually according to the message "younger brother" that means they aren't twins. SeaTerror (talk) 16:28, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Not if he's born after Doflamingo, twins do have a younger and older based on who is born first. 16:33, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

The image is obviously Doflamingo. Mr. Whatever (talk) 16:37, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Then Law would have said "twin" brother and not "younger" brother. SeaTerror (talk) 16:40, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I also agree that this is Doflamingo, I'd say remove the image until he is actually shown in a flashback. 17:42, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I'd say it's DD rather than DC here. If we were going to get a silhouette of someone new, it'd be easier to distinguishe.

22:37, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Nose and chin are far too pointy to be Doflamingo whose nose and chin are always rounded. But I don't mind removing the picture. 22:56, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

I noticed in the recent chapters Doflamigo wears one earring in each ear not two. 23:25, May 30, 2014 (UTC)Zori9

It's Cora until those who disapprove can come up with a better argument than arguing a silohouette's appearance. 04:12, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

The silhouette's appearance is all that we have to go by, so of course all arguments for either side will relate to it.
 * I can't think of any time where Oda has drawn siblings the same who aren't twins, and Law said "younger brother" not "twin brother" (which would be expected notwithstanding the difference in minutes between when twins are born)
 * On forums, and on here, there is a clear division of opinion as to whether it's Doflamingo or Corazon, showing that there is enough doubt to justify keeping it off the page. Having the image implies a degree of certainty that we simply don't have. 05:42, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

I think the best to do is to use the "no pic available" image. 11:23, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Time to bump this. That isn't Corazon. SeaTerror (talk) 03:59, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

Doflamingo's nose was not that hooked. Corazon's image has sharper facial features than Doflamingo's, and since they are brothers, it would be only natural for them to be lookalikes. 23:56, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Only twins look that much alike. SeaTerror (talk) 02:48, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Not always. Besides, who's to say they weren't twins? 03:09, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

We already went over that before and nobody addressed it. SeaTerror (talk) 03:09, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Just wait three days. I agree with you, but there's no point arguing until we get more information. 04:35, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 750 has been released, and this has not been resolved. Use the No Picture Available image already. There's no need to be pretentious about this. Mr. Whatever (talk) 08:14, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

I second Mr. Whatever's proposion. MasterDeva (talk) 09:51, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, seems we're gonna have to wait longer for a true confirmation. 11:44, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with waiting for a confirmation as well. 11:49, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, Gal is right. Let's use the no pic image. 11:51, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

759 update
Doflamingo said something about Law being the "3rd" Corazon. Can we say this is the name of two former elite officers?  Gourd Roger   Purple Talk  ♡ 15:00, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Seems plausible, since it sounds like the 2nd Corazon was Doflamingo's biological brother. Don't know who the 1st was. Also sounds like that the four names: Corazon, Pica, Diamante and Trebol are aliases for the four Elite Officers, and their real names are not yet revealed. 15:10, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't sound like Corazon is a title like that. I think Doflamingo just meant the third person to hold Corazon's position. The second guy could be named Ted for all we know. And if what you're saying is correct, that brings Trebol, Pica, and Diamante's names into question as well. 15:33, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Even if their names are now in question, it's still all we have for their names, so there's nothing we can really do aside from note that there have been 3 "Corazon"s. All the info we have about "Corazon" pertains to only one of the people anyways. Though we don't know if that's the first or second. 15:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

They do sound like aliases, like Joker (who would name their kids after card suits?). But it doesn't really matter, since everything's speculation at this stage. 15:41, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Can we move it now?
Okay, chapter 760 said they were a family of four, showed a kid who looked like Doffy, now see Corazon's silohouette when Law dropped the ball on him being the brother. So can we throw a Donquixote in front of the current title? 23:17, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Not exactly, as we still don't know if Corazon is his actual name or just one of the five alias based on the Elite Officers (Joker, Pica, Corazon, Trebol, Diamante). For all we know, it wouldn't be Donquixote Corazon, but Donquixote [Something]. 23:30, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well...crud. 23:34, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Wouldn't be able to anyways as he hasn't been called Donquixote in the manga (same case as Riku Rebecca... Riku Viola... Riku Scarlett) Mr. Whatever (talk) 23:38, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Coloured Corazon
Jump did a coloured version of chapter 761 here: http://imgur.com/a/BJ2h9 Scroll down and you can see the coloured version of Corazon. Anima40 (talk) 08:55, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, we already uploaded the colored picture of Corazon. Thanks for informing us anyway. 11:52, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

Third Corazon
Isn't it a bit premature to say that there was another Corazon before this one. For all we know this Corazon was the first and there was another after him. I say there are still two options:

-Corazon --> unknown--> Law

-Unknown --> Corazon --> Law

For now it should be mentionted that we don't yet know which Corazon this one was.

193.202.17.249 11:00, September 30, 2014 (UTC)

I know this may be speculation but, I think the Corazon that is missing is Vergo, I think Vergo was a "Corazon" before he joined the marines to be Doflamingo's mole in the marines.Corazon Heart89 (talk) 19:34, October 3, 2014 (UTC)Corazon_Heart89

-Corazon --> Vergo --> Law

-Vergo --> Corazon --> Law

I thought the same!!! Corazon dies, gets replaced by Vergo. Law doesn't agree with Vergo taking the seat and fights Vergo but loses(the fight has already been mentioned during punk hazard). Vergo either leaves as a mole or is convinced by Law to leave the heart seat.

Of course its also possible that Vergo was there before then, we'll see. :)

193.202.17.249 11:40, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

But of course everything you guys said at this point is just speculation.

GOURD http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx27/sudhirshakya/1star4a.gif  ROGER  11:54, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

^What Gourd said. We don't add speculation, though feel free to make a forum or blog on your theory. 11:58, October 3, 2014 (UTC)

Rocinante is Corazon?
Was it ever confirmed that Rocinante is Cora? It could be that Rocinante was the 1st Corazon, and Law's "Cora-san" is the 2nd Corazon since there were three of them. They would be two people though. 73.170.68.149 00:11, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

You're kidding me, right? Baby 5 and Buffalo called him Cora-san as well. 00:16, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

But no one's called Rocinante Corazon before. And Doflamingo said he was his little brother, but he also said that for Law. 73.170.68.149 00:19, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Law said to Luffy that Doflamingo killed his own younger brother, who was an Elite Officer. Do read chapter 749. 00:24, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Just...nevermind. Sorry to bother you then.73.170.68.149 00:26, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Nobody says his full name is Donquixote Rocinante. Maybe he is Donquixote John Smith Rocinante. What is "ドンキホーテ・ロシナンテ"? --The name was made by fans, not by Oda. --Klobis (talk) 04:04, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to ask this but why is Rocinante's last name not included on this page. He is Donquixote Doflamingo's brother, ergo he should have the same last name!

193.202.17.249 07:50, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Nevermind, just as I posted this, it was changed correctly...

193.202.17.249 07:52, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Are you guys flipping serious? We know he's part of the Donquixote family and we know it's his family name! Is the possibility of being incorrect so scary to you that you won't even include information that's actually confirmed!? If you're going to be this nervous about including last names then we may as well revert every character who's last name is beyond obvious but not quite confirmed. 16:02, October 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * ^What DP said

Just explain to me this: If his father is a Donquixote, and his brother is a Donquixote, why wouldn't he also be a Donquixote? How does the transitive property not apply here? It's been that way for everyone we've known with a family name. The Monkeys, the Nicos, the Jaguars, the Portgases, the Nefertaris, all of them have the same last name as their parents. So why does it suddenly not apply here? 16:47, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

All those names you mentioned their full names were actually mentioned. Except for Jaguar since there was only one Jaguar in the series. SeaTerror (talk) 18:01, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Titi wasn't (and Yata that is not a queue to move her page) and Jaguar mentioned his family line. The transitive property works here, so I fail to understand why no one will apply it. We know they're biological siblings, we know their last name, we know Rocinante is a member of the Donquixote family, we know the parents didn't divorce and one of them got his name changed after the split, so why can't we, by deductive reasoning or even Boolean logic, conclude that Rocinante's last name is Donquixote? What ever happened to standing on our own two feet and realizing and applying these things ourselves instead of hiding like scared children because we're afraid to put the right answer on the other side of the equals sign? 18:34, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

I think the grandest example that caused this trouble was Lily Enstomach and Panz Fry, father and daughter who have absolutely different names. Non-canon though they are, they did tie in with a character and movie that Oda personally designed, not just some random filler arc characters created by Toei. 18:56, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

I can't believe people are seriously arguing against "Donquixote Rocinante". Do they need everything spelled out for them? Just move the page back. 19:04, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

I know, but we are talking about "no concrete evidence" here. As I said, Lily and her father have utterly different family names is a possible crash on here. 19:09, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Awaikage. Rocinante was never introduced through an infobox but only in Doflamingo speeches, so obviously he didn't use their family name. Just like Lami, Oda created a character called "??? Rocinante", and we know that "???" is "Donquixote". So "Donquixote Rocinante" is not speculation. --Meganoide (talk) 19:14, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

This one is more likely than the Lami one but I was just pointing out that DP used all bad examples since Oda actually listed the last names for all of those characters. SeaTerror (talk)

Lily and Panz are not only filler characters but had their names based on food puns. There's concrete evidence everywhere, you are just refusing to acknowledge it because you're unwilling to connect points that Oda has already laid out in front of you, but hasn't told you to connect them, probably because it's so obvious that it doesn't need pointing out. What are you afraid will happen if we move it back to Rocinante? What kind of fallout are you expecting to see? Trust me, there won't be any. This whole thing only started because Klobis had a problem with people adding Donquixote to his name in Japanese anyway. The reasons to change it are right in front of you plain as day, you just refuse to acknowledge them. 22:59, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I'm fine with Donquixote Rocinante. However, some are not, and under the claim that this is considered speculation because Oda has yet to officially confirm it with a dialogue, info-box, sbs or databook. 00:19, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

Those are the same uptight people who are never okay with any form of rationality. Cave into their butthurt and all is lost. Don't cave, Yata. 00:26, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

So, is anyone besides Klobis actually against "Donquixote Rocinante" or can we just move this back? 19:21, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't look that way. 19:26, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

So, unless someone has a really good reason not to, I'm going to drop the Donquixote back in there. 20:30, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

Not for or against, just a question. Would we use this logic to move Viola to Riku Viola then? 20:30, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

In theory yes, but this is not the place for that. Let's rekindle that conversation over on Viola's talk page. 21:05, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

DP, seriously? You can fabricate what the author never say as a fact in this wiki? And we may as well revert every character who's last name is beyond obvious but not quite confirmed Who do you refer? --Klobis (talk) 23:53, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

I prefer to stand by my choices when the facts support them undeniably. I wouldn't have done this if I weren't certain that it was correct. 00:15, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

It's fine how it is right now. We have to leave the romanization and other stuff off though since adding nonexistent Japanese seems wrong. SeaTerror (talk) 00:18, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

You genius with your talks about "nonexistent kanji/romaji". I'm taking them from Doflamingo's page. You're always, always, always, a pain for the wiki. Meganoide (talk) 00:27, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

No, SeaTerror has a point. It should just read Rocinante in his infobox. 00:28, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

Mmm, why? We have the kanji and the romaji of his full name. Why don't we add them? --Meganoide (talk) 00:40, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

We put the kanji in as it appears, and "Donquixote Rocinante" hasn't appeared in kanji. 00:54, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

So basically we assume it is Donquixote Rocinante because of his father and brother. However, we keep the Donquixote in his infobox and article out until/unless it shows us later. 00:57, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

Basically yeah. To put it in means we are saying the name showed up (in written form) when indeed it has not. Basically adding it would be like lying. 01:01, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

And I assume that we do this for Byojack, Viola, and Lami? Not suggesting, just asking are we? 01:12, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

When the time comes, yes. 01:19, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

You can't say "we're lying" if we add a kanji/romaji of a thing that we do know! As you said, we should "connect the dots": we know he's a Donquixote family member, we know how "Donquixote" is written, but we don't add it! That's absurd. That's a contraddiction. That's hypocrisy towards the ones who were against moving this page. Consistency is far away from this page. --Meganoide (talk) 14:46, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

Like I said, even though we know what it is, it hasn't physically appeared that way, and I don't want people to think it has. I realize I'm straddling the line here. I suppose we could compromise and put "Donquixote" in parentheses in the infobox. 15:25, October 13, 2014 (UTC)