Talk:Monet

First female character to die?
Alright, this kind of an extension of the discussion from the Villain Definition section above, but more specialized.

I say Monet is the first female character to die in the current storyline. Others like Belle-mere and Otohime died in flashbacks. The Zombie characters of Lola and Cindry shouldn't count because they died long before they became zombies. Their bodies were reanimated, and the people themselves were not reborn, and is therefore not a true resurrection, like Brook's devil fruit would be. And none of our articles say that the Zombies "died" when Moriah took in all the shadows, only that the bodies became lifeless corpses again. 02:45, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

They became new people. They died in the current timeline. 02:48, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

They were never alive to begin with. Making a puppet dance around doesn't mean it's a live, just that it can move. Zombies aren't alive, they're undead. 02:50, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

They are the bodies of dead people with the shadow (and personality) of live people. They aren't their own person, and they are neither dead nor alive. They are undead, and undead things don't die, they do something different from "death". 02:51, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Zombies are brought to life. Something that isn't dead is alive. 02:53, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Or undead. SeaTerror (talk) 02:57, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

The undead are still alive. They aren't dead. 03:00, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

But they aren't alive either. 03:00, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

The only possible classification for something is dead or alive. They aren't dead. They can only be alive. The undead are alive. 03:02, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat SeaTerror (talk) 03:04, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't apply to zombies. And undead is a term made specifically for zombies since they are neither dead nor alive. Learn hwo zombies work. 03:06, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

She just died outside a flashback, so she is the "first female character to die outside a flashback", not in the series at all.--Shay.avigad.1 (talk) 11:12, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

God this sounds like a campaign towards "Zombie Rights" XD

Grievous67 (talk) 21:47, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Sort of Fighter
I think Monet fits to be in the category of "Swordsmen" which is inside the category of "Fighters Who Use Weapons", and not in the latter category itself.--Shay.avigad.1 (talk) 11:16, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

She never used a sword.

Yup, but she might fit in Category:Polearm Wielders. 14:18, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Her weapons look more like daggers compared to her size, imho. I don't know which category daggers belong to though.

Monet's name comes from Claude Monet
I posted in the trivia that Monet's name (obviously) comes from incredibly famous French impressionist king painter Claude Monet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Monet

especially since Claude Monet did several paintings of snow landscapes like this ones

http://www.canvasreplicas.com/images/Lavacourt%20under%20the%20Snow%20Claude%20Monet.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_qjLGN--pS8/Tvh-zWYqWKI/AAAAAAAAHuw/k1ZaodQqDfk/s1600/Claude+Monet+View+of+Argenteuil+in+the+Snow+1875.jpg

and many others.

However, after posting it a few days later somebody removed it. Why? It's like they called Kanjuro Picasso and said "Oh no, he's totally not inspired off the painter". Personally I think it should be featured in the trivia.

What do you think?

Grievous67 (talk) 18:01, October 17, 2014 (UTC)Grievous67

Pretty sure it's a common French name. Plus, I don't think the name is likely to be based off the content of his paintings, as I think he's far more known for his more colorful spring and summer paintings. 03:04, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think her name was ever written out anyway. People originally used Mone. SeaTerror (talk) 07:16, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

Trafalgar Law
Monet didn't really know Law, since she hadn't been present in his past, so I think Law doesn't fit to be listed as her enemy.--844996 11:58, April 3, 2015 (UTC)

No, but Monet knew him because he's been a while in Punk Hazard

Grievous67 (talk) 21:48, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's also worth mentioning that Law was most likely the one who constructed her into an artificial harpy, much like he did with Brown Beard and the rest of Caesar's henchmen. (Not saying that should be added to the article, just contributing to this discussion) DazzlingEmerald (talk) 03:20, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

That's already on her page in the history section m7/11 - it was confirmed in chapter 675.--Xilinoc (talk) 07:04, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Monet Really Dead?
Why are there many people perstisting that a major character and antagonist is dead in the current storyline? It's not very clear cut. This One Piece. Sure, Ace and Whitebeard in the current near the end of the first half, but there's a major reason for that. Plus it's survival to have your heart stabbed in real life. I'm just saying there many evidence against Monet being killed. Why not leave hear status unknown? It keep this article from being biased. I'm sorry it all really bugs me. If you want me to make my case, I'll show you links to videos and quotes from the comment section for evidence.

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 22:38, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Monet/Archive_1#Dead That's why. Only reason really. Unknown would be better since it isn't speculative. SeaTerror (talk) 22:43, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

We're not discussing this again unless something happens in the manga that suggests otherwise. 22:45, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

^ Citation needed. SeaTerror (talk) 22:51, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

So you agree me that this is rediculious and those people should keep their opinions and speculations to somewhere else than wiki pages?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 23:11, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

The community decided long ago that the assumption Monet has died is a reasonable one. She got stabbed in the heart in an exploding building with no one around after all. 23:16, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

Why could you just labled the character's status as unkown? I thought we're suppose to write and edit facts, not opinions and speculations.

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 23:21, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it opinions and speculations, but rather deductive reasoning. if you know for example that there are 3 doors ahead, one white, one blue and the other green, and you can see the blue and white one already, then you can safely assume the door you can't see is green. Same case here. It's hard to please everyone, but the voting about this matter showed the majority is pleased with the assumption she is dead. I hope you understand. 23:26, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, but there are rebutals from what you said in first comment like not showing the whole building destroyed, right?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 23:31, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

Although I understand your point, by that logic you can question every "fact" presented in the manga with a "what if". Example: Sabo case. Sabo was presented as dead, and although there were the "hints" of him being alive, they were just speculations. Oda decided to make him appear dead until he revealed the plot-twist. Oda can decide to "resurrect" or "save" any character he wants but until he does so, we have to stick what he wants us to think, which is her being dead. Maybe Sabo was not so clear? Well what about Pell? Imagine the chapter where he blew up was just released today, would you consider the possibility of him surviving? What about other dead characters?

The community discussed then if the informations we had was enough to consider Monet dead and it concluded so by majority. I don't know what are the current rules about re-challenging a community decision, but you have to understand that we cannot question community decisions each time just because someone doesn't agree with the outcome. If you bring some new piece of evidence, probably people can reopen the discussion but otherwise it's counter-productive, I think.

Fine. If I find new, legit evidence from the series' chapters and episodes, past and fast, I'll show them. That includes online sources also.

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 00:00, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Questioning it is actually completely valid. We shouldn't state something as a "fact" but we should make it ambiguous. The poll was made before the status template existed anyway so we never had unknown before. It's speculation to say that Monet is dead just as much as it would be to say she is alive. SeaTerror (talk) 00:38, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

I like your arguement, SeaTerror. Keeping it ambiguous, while leaving it come for other to come up with their own theories and predictions to share and come up with their own conclusions.

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 01:16, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

We voted. She's dead until further notice. Drop it. 01:50, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Only 23 people voted there. I say we repoll. Leman-Russkin (talk) 02:28, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

>only 23 people voted

Do you realize how many users USUALLY vote on polls? Like 10. 23 is an unusually high number here, you're not going to get more by re-polling.--Xilinoc (talk) 04:08, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? Atleast I've seen, there were way more people voting on polls in wikis. What type of polls are you refering to?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 04:56, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

This poll. As DP said, we voted and the majority was for dead. (the presumed deceased category the poll talks about was later deleted because of another poll)

The system for opening issues again is wait at least 3 months, and bring something new to the table so that we might have a different result. You have brought nothing new to the table, and per our voting rules you wouldn't even be able to vote in the poll. There's no reason to discuss this now. And there's even less reason for this to be an "active discussion".

Drop it. 05:49, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Altright, I think I've found something new. In the archive, you believe that Monet wouldn't be able to survive with her heart being stabed. However, it is possible to survive being stabbed in the heart in the real world. Although it's 1/3 chance, It's been proven a fact. Here's so proof. Here's an ABC 22 news story: http://www.abc22now.com/news/top-stories/stories/Man-Stabbed-In-Heart-Survives-Suspect-In-Custody-157047.shtml

Not convinced? Here's an article titled  " 7 Deadly Things You Won't Believe Most People Survive".

Here's the link: http://www.cracked.com/article_19698_7-deadly-things-you-wont-believe-most-people-survive.html

Look for it in #5.

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 07:31, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

We are NOT discussing this again.

Also, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Monet?diff=next&oldid=802705 You are gal aint ya? 07:50, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

"and bring something new to the table so that we might have a different result." That's not the rule. But if you want to claim that then I already did. "The poll was made before the status template existed anyway so we never had unknown before." SeaTerror (talk) 09:52, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Jesus Chist ST stop whinning, you have to whole wiki against you. Just stop. 09:55, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

I'd be up for repolling. We should just use unknown status. 10:00, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

If she's back > Alive. If she's not -> Just keep her dead. By the same logic we should keep Higuma "unknown" because MAYBE he mangaed to get out of the sea king's mouth (he wasn't teared apart, he was eaten alive so MAYBE he got out of there, right?), maybe PuddingPudding swam away from Arlong Park, by the same logic we should keep Bell-Mére unknown because a shot through the heart (or head) MAYBE didn't kill her, just like Monet. I mean we saw blood but, we didn't see her after right?

Monet should not get special treatment. If we consider a stab to the heart and a mountain collapsing to be "unknown" then we should change all characters who died in a similar matter.

Grievous67 (talk) 11:08, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Wait a minute. So they have been lying to me about this?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 15:08, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

I'm a boy. And did you ask me that?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 15:08, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Post in order, not in the middle of the talk.

15:12, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Any of you, actually read what I found?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 15:42, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

It's hard to take that article seriously, as it takes into consideration that there are actual hospitals in the area of the victim. Monet was alone in a building on a deserted island (with a cut in pieces Vergo), with the building collapsing as it exploded. Recognize the difference? It's not something valid I'm afraid. 15:48, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

By "bring something new to the discussion" I meant something in-series. We've already had the "people can survive getting stabbed in the heart" discussion before. Oda wants us to believe she's dead regardless of her actual fate. I have no problem categorizing her as such, and I will have no egg on my face if she is alive.

But beating this dead horse of a discussion again because one user that does not have enough edits to vote on an eventual poll would be bad for the community, in my opinion. This discussion should be over. 15:56, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry that. I wasn't sure. I'm done with this disscussion. Atleast, for now. One more thing. When you meant by "in-series", do you meant like relevance, impact, and continuity of the narrative?

Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 19:40, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

I believe "in-series" kind of means just that. What happens in real life is mainly irrelevant to what happens in this fantasy story. Sure, in real life, people MIGHT be able to survive a stab to the heart (of course the situations are drastically different), but that doesn't necessarily mean people in One Piece will be able to survive a stab. Even if the situations were similar, it's not actual evidence. We can use real-world inspirations to deduce events in the fantasy world, but that's still speculation. 22:14, October 18, 2015 (UTC)