Talk:Jack/Archive 1

Mammoth What?
Jack is the captain of the Mammoth... what? Doesn't the raw say anything else? Is it just that? KingCannon (talk) 01:32, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure who wrote that line but we must fix that

Joekido (talk) 01:36, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

The Mammoth is a ship. Like how Going Merry is called ゴーイングメリー号 (Going Merry Go) with the 号 signifying that it's a ship, but that part is lost in translation. In the raw, it's called マンモス号 (Manmosu Go). Though the 号 can be a suffix added to things other than ships (like trains or even people lol), the word used for "Captain" (船長) that comes right after that in the infobox indicates that The Mammoth (or just Mammoth) is a ship. 02:15, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Does that mean that this is situation similar to the Blackbeard Pirates, with ship captains (Burgess, Captain of the First Ship, for example) being subordinate to a "Fleet Captain" (Marshall D. Teach. Kaido in Jack's case)? KingCannon (talk) 02:24, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

I suppose so. 04:18, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, resolved. 00:00, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Drought Damage
Do we really have to use "the Drought Damage" as his epithet? Sounds rather silly. Even if that's the literal translation, I feel like "the Drought" gets the same point across just fine. When you think of "Jack the Drought" you already think of the damage caused by a drought, not really a drought as a natural phenomenon. So I suggest we just go with "the Drought" unless the other Disasters' epithets tell us otherwise. 00:00, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

agree 01:57, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, as a Californian, "the Drought" sounds much better.--Xilinoc (talk) 21:39, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Bounty
The newspaper listed him as dead, and I seriously doubt the government thinks otherwise. If the government thinks him to be dead, then there is obviously no use for his bounty and it should be inactive. 01:48, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

I don't remember what we do for dead characters, but I think we should use "formerly" only for people who had their bounty suspended or revoked, not if they died. After all it's not the bounty which was revoked/suspended, it's the character that died. This will also prevent similar discussion for every other suspected dead character. Maybe Talk:Bounties it's a better place to discuss this, though.


 * Example: we don't use the word "formerly" for devil fruits in the infobox of dead characters even though they obviously don't have them anymore.

The only example I know is Ace where it says formerly in the infobox. Maybe instead of saying formerly we should say inactive? 03:15, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

It was flat out stated that it was suspected he isn't dead. SeaTerror (talk) 03:48, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Wanda said that, and she is not the government. If he has an obituary in the paper, that's a pretty good sign the government considers him dead. 20:55, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

You mean how the newspaper said Moria is dead? SeaTerror (talk) 21:09, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Call me crazy, but there's a good chance that the World Government is covering this up like they did with the mass breakout from Level Six of Impel Down. What if Jack actually succeeded in overwhelming the Marines and freed Doflamingo? Eddy1315 (talk) 20:11, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

If Jack succeeded in overwhelming the Marine ships. I'm pretty sure the Marines would do a much better job of covering it up. 20:52, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Jack's fate aside, I'm suggesting to use "formerly" only if the bounty was suspended (Shikibukai), but simply leave it as it is in all other cases, dead or whatever. It will make things much more simple.

I agree with Levi. It'd make things somewhat simpler. 16:44, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

Which is exactly what we do with the devil fruit, so it's nothing new. And isn't there a "status" field? Let's just leave to it explaining what's his current status.

We should talk about what to call other bounties in a forum. For now, we should focus on whether we consider his bounty active or not in the article, then worry about the infobox. 07:46, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

Considering that the in-universe source that claims that Jack is dead doesn't even have evidence to prove that's the case, then we can call it unreliable.

After all, if in-universe characters like Wanda can question it, why can't us readers? The story all but indicates that he is alive.

So yeah, the bounty should still be active. After all, he is wanted dead or alive, so if somebody came with his body, they technically would have the right to claim the bounty. KingCannon (talk) 11:46, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

We know right now that the Marines mark dead guy bounties as inactive. The Marines brought Jack down and were the only ones in the general vicinity, so they wouldn't claim the bounty, and even if they did, there's no use for a bounty if it's been paid. Jack got an obituary because they reported him as dead; if they were making things up to save face they wouldn't have reported that Jack sunks two of the ships. It makes more sense for his bounty to be inactive. 12:57, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

Appearance?
At the end of chapter 809, some kind of horn, probably similar to Kaido´s, can be seen at the side of his head, at eye level. Whether is a horn or not has yet to be confirmed, but there is DEFINITELY something sticking out of his head.Buttbug (talk) 04:03, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Didn't notice it until you mentioned it, you're right, that DEFINITELY looks like a horn of some kind.

HanataSanchou (talk) 20:54, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Right hand man
Is Jack really Kaido's right hand man or just a close associate due to being one of the three calamaties/disasters? Anima40 (talk) 07:14, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Really though. Can we have some kind of a confirmation for this? 193.140.225.117 11:54, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, here. 14:33, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Ryu-chan it seems you misunderstood. In this Jack article it says that he is one of the 3 characters who are right han men of Kaidou. The ones that are closest to him. I personally always read MangaStream translations and they translated this as "Jack is one the calamities and star of the Beasts Pirates. He is the right hand man and the remaining two calamities are NOT Kaidou's right hand man. Do you understand? Anima40 and I want to know which is true. Is Jack the only right hand man of Kaidou or 3 calamities as a whole are right hand men of Kaidou. 193.140.225.117 15:50, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

He's the right hand man in the same way that Pica, Diamante, Trebol and Vergo were Doflamingo's right hand men.

16:19, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. Then they should have translated it differently. Thanks for the answers guys. 193.140.225.117 16:27, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Face?
I feel like the panel in this most recent chapter (809) where Jack's bounty was revealed as $1B shows a pretty good portion of Jack's actual face and hands. If that wasn't him, who hell would it be and WHY? I feel like if his little silhouette while he was torturing the guy at the stake, and the portion we saw before he attacked Mingo's convoy are worth putting on his profile, why not this one? There's a break next week so I suppose it won't be shown in full detail until 2 weeks from now, and even then they might now show it in that chapter. So again, just not sure why this doesn't count as SOMETHING for now.

HanataSanchou (talk) 20:51, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that was the bragging underling who was serving as a backdrop to Jack for greater effect 01:45, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Caesar's Weapon
Chopper said that Jack used Caesar's poison gas weapon to annihlate Zou, however, people don't believe it was Shinokuni. Eddy1315 (talk) 20:09, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Yup. It could have been one of the hundreds of poison gas weapons Caesar could have produced. It's simply speculation to say it's specifically the gas named Shinokuni. 20:15, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

But Chopper didn't say 'a weapon created by Caesar Clown', he said 'Caesar Clown's gas weapon', implying that it was the one that they personally encountered. Eddy1315 (talk) 20:18, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

That's a bit of a stretch 20:21, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Still counts as speculation. 20:23, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

"Smiley died on Punk Hazard. Shinokuni was a one time thing." SeaTerror (talk) 20:23, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

The weapon wasn't named. So therefore you're speculating. 20:27, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

If it wasn't the weapon the Straw Hats saw on Punk Hazard, then wouldn't Chopper have said 'a gas weapon created by Caesar Clown' rather than 'Caesar Clown's gas weapon' to empathize that it wasn't one they hadn't seen before? Besides, didn't Caesar say that three countries who saw the experiment ordered a Shinokuni bomb?Eddy1315 (talk) 20:28, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Read my previous comment. SeaTerror (talk) 20:29, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Caesar wouldn't have broadcast the power of the Shinokuni if he didn't plan to mass produce it. Eddy1315 (talk) 20:30, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't count on the translation if I were you. And how would those countries be able to order the bomb if Caesar got kidnapped right after the experiment? 20:31, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Usopp came up with a theory at the beginning of the next chapter. Eddy1315 (talk) 20:32, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Right. 20:36, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, how about this. It's obvious that the flashback is going to show the entire disaster on Zou, so we'll just hold off and see exactly what the weapon Jack used is called. Eddy1315 (talk) 20:38, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

That's what we're doing right now 20:42, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

I thought the Shinokuni we saw on Punk Hazard was a test... and since the attack happened before PH, how Jack had a weapon that wasn't even tested? Jack's men also saw the experiment broadcasted, so why would they be interested in a weapon they had already? I'm leaning towards another gas weapon or the same weapon, but the version before he turned men in to stone. Anyway, as other said we will eventually see it.

Caesar did mention an earlier version made four years ago, but there's nothing saying that it was called Shinokuni.

In fact, Caesar only names the weapon before the test, calling it a new weapon and everything.

So yeah, it's not Shinokuni. KingCannon (talk) 02:11, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Name
Since ST isn't interested in discussing this like a normal person, I'm forcing his hand. Calico Jack is a very well known pirate of the same era as Blackbeard, and it's far from unreasonable that his name is a reference to this. Also, so what if it's also the name of a Disney pirate character? That's an entirely relevant point to make. Nothing in the trivia rules says that can't be mentioned. It can only be removed if someone disagrees and there is no discussion, as tends to happen with a lot of trivia edits ST takes it upon himself to remove.

20:11, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

During an edit war the article is supposed to be on the original version of the page before the edit is made. Anyway I already made the argument about Jack being a common first name. It doesn't matter if there also happens to be a famous pirate with that name. It would be an actual reference if Jack's full name was the same or another character in his crew had the name Rackham. SeaTerror (talk) 20:18, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

Might as well remove the Urouge trivia then, eh? Since his full doesn't match the real Oruc and no one in his crew is named Hayreddin Barbarossa or some shit. Just put the trivia in it, unless you can come with actual arguments. 20:22, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

So a pirate being called Teach is common enough to be a reference to a real life Teach? A name of a pirate being identical to the name of a real pirate is not coincidence. The name Bartholomew Kuma shares only a passing resemblance to Black Bart, but that trivia relating the names is fine. Been there for years.

20:24, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

The Kuma one isn't there because of the name it's there because both carried a bible. SeaTerror (talk) 20:28, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

But a lot of people carry bibles 20:32, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Bartholomew Kuma and Bartholomew Roberts with the nickname Black Bart are clearly unrelated.

20:38, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

Nah, Oda has  never taken inspiration from RL pirates. Not at all. I mean I could go on. But at this point it's kinda obvious that Oda DOES clearly take inspiration from real life pirates for names. 20:38, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

Just say "Calico Jack was a British pirate during the 18th century". Calico Jack was already referred with Yorki, btw.

As much as I'd like to agree, Jack is just too common a name for it to be plausible and not coincidence. Rackham was not the only pirate who went by Jack. If we knew his full name, that might be something to go on, but I say it's too vague at this point. 02:35, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

That argument would hold true if Oda regularly used common English/American names. He doesn't, and I'm fairly sure that the majority of the times he has used english names so far, they've all been inspired/semi-inspired by famous pirates. And as Levi pointed out, Oda is familiar with Calico Jack. Would be weird to assume that Jack is now a coincidence. 09:17, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

Let the reader decide if that's a coincidence or not. We are going to just say there was a pirate named Calico Jack, that's all.

So something like "Jack shares his name with Calico Jack, a blah blah" and don't outright say that he's inspired by it? Works for me.

14:24, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

Even less then that, literally just say "There was once a British pirate named Calico Jack".

I'm resisting the urge to rattle off the laundry list of other pirates named Jack. 02:21, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

We could point out that he shares his name with other famous pirates, point out two or three notable examples, then say it's inconclusive who this character is based on. That seems like the best option other than not having any trivia at all. 02:30, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

Putting it that way is basically admitting it's speculation. I say it's better to not have it at all. 04:17, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, who are these other famous pirates?

Jack or John Ansell, Bowen, Callis, Colaert, Cooke, Coxon, Crabbe, Evans, Fenn, Halsey, Hawkins, Julian, King, Morris, Quelch, de Sores, Tavernier, Tardy, Taylor, and Ward to name a few. Not to mention the fictional Jack Sparrow (and before you argue), if he based Crocodile's appearance after Captain Hook, then fictional pirates are not off limits here. 06:15, December 12, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it was ever stated that Crocodile is based on Captain Hook. It's not even on his page. But still, he probably did have some fictional influence on his characters. 07:24, December 12, 2015 (UTC)

Status
I'm just going to make this clear so no one gets into any arguments over it. Jack is alive until we learn new information. Thank you, and have a nice day. 11:58, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

a devil fruit that got obliterated and flung into the ocean...

ya... hes a goner  Judge Magister Pyarox  16:12, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

Well, you know One Piece. He could've landed on a floating piece of wood from his ship. Or better yet, maybe he can just miraculously hold his breath underwater unconsciously for days. In whatvever case, anything can happen at this point so it's not safe to say he's dead yet. Mhj0808 (talk) 16:23, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

Would be cool to have a "defeated" status to settle many of this "are we sure" discussions. Basically that's the closest thing to death we usually get in One Piece.

There's the "unknown" status. I think we've decided against a "KO", "unconscious" or similar statuses. 17:24, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

Unknown means we don't know if he is dead or alive. Unconscious means he is still alive, just fainted, while KO means knock out, sounds too unprofessional. This ain't Pokemon. 17:31, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I think likely dead would be a good status. I doubt there's a piece of wood large enough to buoy an anchor as big as Jack. His ship was pulverized and all the debris was covered in a wave. If he was floating I think the monkey mink would've spotted him floating.Rayfire (talk) 16:26, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Likely dead? Well we used to have a "presumed deceased" category for that, but it got nuked after the whole Doflamingo vs. Kyros clone-switcheroo thing. You're gonna have to lobby for a poll if you want it brought back because by and large, we can almost never assume somebody in One Piece is dead unless it's stated from a trustworthy source (Doffy on Vergo, for example) or if it's pretty much shown on screen (Monet). Not to be rude, but doubt doesn't mean much of anything; after all, lots of us "doubted" that Doflamingo would survive having his organs ruptured and yet he did. IMO "unknown" works just fine until he's confirmed dead Mhj0808 (talk) 21:50, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Neither of those happened actually. Also presumed deceased was removed because it was a horrible category in general. SeaTerror (talk) 23:43, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Well turns out the whole thing was a moot point. SOB just refuses to die. I've learned my lesson on that. Rayfire (talk) 16:13, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Haha, what did I tell you? Both on a section of wood and apparently holding his breath/breathing. Only he's not even unconcious. Oh Oda. Mhj0808 (talk) 18:21, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

The personality section
I feel the personality section doesn't really chalk up to Jack's personality. It feels like we're attributing whatever we can to fill the section for no good reason.

A person feeling fear isn't a personality trait per se and neither does it really add to our understanding of Jack as a person. As such, I'll try to figure out a way to change the personality piece to really represent Jack's persona, rather than just chalking up every single reaction or drawing conclusions about how he is based on small quotes he's made. I'll make some changes! Tiyza (talk) 01:15, April 1, 2016 (UTC)