Talk:Borsalino

Category Removal
Just so everyone knows, I removed the gender and species stuff for now. We haven't even seen a real picture or anything of this person yet, we have no clue what they are. It's probably best to just leave off some of this stuff until we have confirmation. --Murasaki 02:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a good bet that he has the Light Light logia fruit. No admiral would be without a logia based fruit. It just wouldn't make any sense for him not to have one. Plus he's already shown that a bullet pass through him and he can fire beams of light from his body. He probably has that fruit.


 * Anon. IP user, please sigh your comments with ~ please, its become a habbit lately for random IPs not to sign. It just so we 1) know the comment won't get mixed up with others, 2) common politeness (people like to know who their talking to).


 * Sounds a safe bet, but to be included on the page, its a speculation that needs to be written carefully. Hawkins page is the closet example to how it can go on the page. You must also state it IS speculation so people reading it know. However, on Logia, I see know full evidence to support that. For all we know it could be a Paramecia that allows the user to generate light. He can use it to step out of the way of things (hence the apparent going through him) and move. Unless its a Zoan, which is always the clearest form of DF, you should avoid writing its type. What stops him being a Logia right now: he hasn't turned INTO the power. All previous Logias (including Blackbeard's, though it didn't work the same) have included this ability. --One-Winged Hawk 07:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Devil Fruit Info
We should eventually list Kizarus devils fruit and put it in the logia page database.

Kizaru vs Blackbeard
Will that ever become true..? That's going to be so cool, Light vs Darkness... ^_^


 * Not forum. --One-Winged Hawk 17:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

That would be very cool yes. I also think that in that scenario, black beard would have a tough fight ahead of him. Although, so would Kizaru if you think about it. It'd be like an unstoppable force against an immovable object. Personally I think blackbeard would win.


 * I stress "Not a forum!"


 * note: please can you sign your posts with four tildes. ~ these things. --One-Winged Hawk 07:23, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Kizaru is now proven to have the light light logia. It should be evidenced by the fact tha in chapter 509 X Drake specifically said that Vegapunk recreated Kizarus abilities. If it takes someone actually saying he has the fruit for you understand and accept it, then good luck with that.

If it's really the Light Logia, it'll definitely be stated sooner or later. Better to be safe than sorry. Please sign with four tildes~ Sephirona 22:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Kizaru is a logia user. He has the light light logia fruit. Here is proof if you need it. http://img102.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-10669/loc335/08889_2_122_335lo.jpg


 * No doubts about it now. This is all we needed to see. Just seeing it is fine as well. I guess we can all look forward to putting speculation into facts now. Its all the reframing is aout, avoiding speculations, there are ways to get them ON a page, but its always unadvisable.


 * For those interested:


 * Give more then one piece of evidence to support.
 * Label it CLEARLY as speculation.
 * Must be a reconisable theory amongst the fandom. (in other words, it must have been discussed somewhere like Arlong Park Forums or the OPHQ).
 * Short and sweet (basically we don't want to go on about something thats likely to be proven wrong in the future).


 * If you can cover those three notes and write it as a theory on the page and not speculation, thats fine. About 75% of all speculation isn't strong enough to go on a page and thats where things end up. Believe me when I say this, but as a wikipedian I saw some beautiful crap being put on a page. Thats why the Mythbusters page exists here, to make people aware of the origins of much of the crap spewing out of forums by rabid fans. --One-Winged Hawk 18:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

DF Simulair to Kuma's?
If his fruit has similar abilities and properties to Kuma's fruit, then list them. Don't say he has similar things and then not list them like an idiot. What are his properties that are similar to each other?


 * Traveling at light speed... Traveling at light speed... Traveling at light speed...


 * Okay I give up thats all I can come up with! Who wrote this??? --One-Winged Hawk 17:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No thats fine now. You can say that it has light speed traveling but be sure to actually list it in Kizaru's fruit page. All I needed to know was what it was that was.


 * ~Dantheman
 * You keep forgetting to sign your posts Dan. Lol.


 * I'd say it only counts if more then one simulairity can be found. Otherwise, ts not a stron enough argument. We can say it gives but thats about it. --One-Winged Hawk 22:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Ama no Murakumo?
The scan here

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/512/08/

has it as "Amakumo no Tsurugi"-where did you get "Ama no Murakumo" ?

New Babylon 23:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Absolute vs. moral
just a thought but would Kizaru be more for moral justice or absolute, or could he be considered a happy medium? Kingluffy1 01:05, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Intereasting point. While he went after any pirate he found, it was because of his duty. However, he hasn't gone overboard and just aressted/fought/whatever anyone linked to piracey, which the AM Marines tend to do. However, he hasn't shown he is prepared to disobey orders and has noted to arrest pirates not even linked to the world noble's incident.


 * Pretty much puts on boat with AM marines, but not one who goes overboard. Then again, he also hasn't displayed any opinions on justice yet so we don't know his personnel opinion. I think right now he is classifiable as the kind of marine who just obeys orders and his duty as a Marine without questioning the "What and why" of things. That could change in future appearances. One-Winged Hawk 12:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Absolute, its on his jacket for crying out loud. Those who believe in moral justice (Smoker, Aokiji, and saul) do not have it on their backs


 * Of the ones we've seen... They've been uniqueified and don't even wear the standard uniform. Pretty sure Hina does, regardless, this isn't proof... One-Winged Hawk 18:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, since this has been bugging me for awhile I am going to reword the mentions that lump Kizaru in with AM marines. I mean, it sort of is his job to capture pirates and obey orders so going after the supernovas not tied directly to the World Noble incident is not a sign of AM. At this point it is purely speculation and also utterly misleading to call Kizaru an AM marine.--84.250.46.128 22:24, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

According to the author, Kizaru lives by the code of "unclear justice", but what exactly does "unclear justice" adhere to in terms of morality and judgment. Do any of you know what it means? 74.99.77.194 21:25, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Introduction Picture
Kizaru's picture at the introduction box is far too big. We should use a smaller one. The same goes for Sentoumaru. Yatanogarasu 12:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Though big, the full view pic gives a better view of him than just his mugshot. Also considering its just one of two pics on the page, it doesn't take up much space.Mugiwara Franky 08:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought a full view pic was perferred? O_o One-Winged Hawk 15:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

We need to change his devils fruit use picture back to what it was or something different
For some reason you guys think it's ok to post and change admirals pictures to them using swords made of their element and then it being ok. First of all, why do you keep choosing swords? Kizaru has much more interesting things than a sword. You have the same thing for Aokiji as well. I don't think that's the most appropriate picture to show them using their respective elements from their fruits. It looks like they're just using a sword. If a new person were to see this site and join, a new fan perhaps, then they would be completely confused as to what they saw from that picture. They would just think they're using a sword. It's not good enough. We should make both of them, and any logia user for that matter, showing a body part getting destroyed to show the full use and power of the abilities they have. And besides, logias power isn't to makes giant swords out of their elements. It's main use (and the main reason it's eaten) is so that they take any kind of attack (not a full haki user of course) in from anyone. From cannon balls to gunshots, to blades. So it'd be best to change it back. So it'd be best to change it back to kizaru turning his head blond and dispersing into his element. And Aokiji losing a limb or back when he grabbed Robin and froze her during the fight on long ring long land. That would be best.


 * ~Daniel


 * Please check the whole discussion page you'll see something about the very picture... There was a bad picture and I was limited by choices by what we already had. The image previously on that section was this guy kicking Hawkins but it got replaced with that crap pre-sword picture which got complaints as poor demostration as it was. But your free to upload another and choose to complain rather then do it? I often pont out to people that pointing out mistakes are nice, but anyone can edit to correct it.


 * On the sword thing - there is limited restrictions on content of image so long as its not porn or fanart no complaints will be put forward. Its dwn to off chance if two pictures like this get uploaded. I didn't know about ice-admirals picture being him making a sword also as I didn't exactly look at the page. Should I check ALL pages on this wikia whenever I upload? That is a bit much if you ask me, I might check related pages like his Devil Fruit page, but Ice-admiral, while related by status isn't related as such directly.


 * I don't have any pictures right now on Kizaru that are decent enough for using here. Guess one can be taken off of onemanga.com though, I'm sorting out another picture tomorrow for uploading, if no one's solved the issue by then I'll get one back. In the meantime consider the thought you really can do it yourself. ^_- One-Winged Hawk 21:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay I swore I had noted a really bad picture there before, but I hadn't. I hat emy memory. You'll have to check history page to find it now. Sorry if it causes any confusion. One-Winged Hawk 21:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The sucky picture on there before: We do have a certain level of quality here. One-Winged Hawk 21:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I'm just saying that it doesn't really show who he is. It's like he's a dog peeing. I don't know how to edit pics. But honestly, who ever puts the pics up of the powers and stuff, needs some better taste. That's all. It was great before for Aokiji's photos for his fruit, and earlier pics for blackbeard, but this is getting so lack luster guys. Come one we can do better than that.


 * ~Daniel


 * The various pics of Devil Fruit powers are not all uploaded by the same person. The current pic of Kizaru lifting his leg to kick light however indeed is not exactly the best but it does show something more than a colorless version. It can however be changed.


 * To add an image to the site, press the upload image button located on the left side.
 * After uploading the image, one can insert it in a page by this simple code format [[Image:(Image name).(Image type)]].
 * This would show the pic in its full size but that would mess up the page depending on how one wants to put the image in. To make it smaller you can either adjust the size by using this code format [[Image:(Image name).(Image type)|(desired size)px]], or by making it into a thumbnail by using this code format [[Image:(Image name).(Image type)|thumbnail]] . Both code formats can also be combined depending on how one wants to use.


 * This are the simplest basics of adding an image.Mugiwara Franky 10:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Vice Admiral?
Should we put that Kizaru was once a Vice Admiral? After all, the other two Admirals were once Vice Admirals (Aokiji was once "Vice Admiral Kuzan", Akainu was once "Vice Admiral Sakazuki"). Therefore, should we put that he was "formerly known as Vice Admiral Borsalino", like they did on Aokiji and Akainu's pages? Yatanogarasu 02:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Theory: His foil is mirrors /reflective surfaces.

Might be worth mentioning as in the anime Rayleigh's sword seems to be especially reflective. Of course his kick would remain unexplained unless he prepared reflective soles beforehand

So vice admiral or not? 22 years ago, he was just dressed and acted like one with Garp. Yatanogarasu 02:35, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Told ya he's a Vice Admiral! Ha! (Can't help but to brag). Yatanogarasu 20:03, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Theoretical Weakness: Worth Mentioning?
Theory: His foil is mirrors /reflective surfaces.

Might be worth mentioning as in the anime Rayleigh's sword seems to be especially reflective. Of course his kick would remain unexplained unless he prepared reflective soles beforehand

- I would say no. It's not like the sword was bouncing his attacks or anything, and haki is the most likely explanation. It's possible but it's so speculative as to not be worth mentioningZeroSD 08:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Anime is not canon so it doesn't count. Besides there isn't supposed to be speculation on the articles. Drunk Samurai 19:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

3 animations = lag
Hate to say it, but one or two animation is okay, but 3 is lagging the page. Well at least their loading times. Can we drop at leastr one of them for a still image? The number of animated images on this page is pushing towards there being more then still ones, I didn't check to see if thery out numbered still frames. One-Winged Hawk 14:03, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe smaller versions of some the gifs would work. Other than that, still pics of equal informativeness would have to be used for some.Mugiwara Franky 14:13, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Might solve the problem, several other pages share these images. Once they've loaded its not a problem, but these animations are the last things loaded on these pages. By the time they've loaded I've already read most of the page itself while checking it over. They cause the scrolling capablitiy of the page to be sluggish. One-Winged Hawk 14:29, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I've been downsizing the ones I uploaded; they're displayed in the smaller size, so downsizing it would chip off about a good megabyte of space while changing nothing in the display. Buh6173 16:23, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

22 years ago
I know that he appeard in Episode 0 OVA, but he's nowhere to be seen in Chapter 0 of manga. Should that image be there? GMTails 20:35, May 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Chapter 0 page 4, above Sengoku afro. He is visible only in Weekly Shōnen Jump release not in Volume 0 due to different paper size.Tipota 20:39, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, now I can see him, thanks ^^ (Pandaman is easier to find) GMTails 20:41, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Do we have the names?
I was wondering, we mention that Kizaru has named his techniques from the three great teasures of Japan, right? Shouldn't we mention the actual names as well? Mihoyam1 08:14, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Already did on his Devil Fruit's page; the name of his attacks are exactly the same as the treasures.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 08:44, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Possible picture additions?
I think it would be cool, if someone can add more pictures to the Whitebeard War of kicking ass, like him holding Edward's Bisento with his foot, and adding him do one last assault before standing down. Iwilllisten 03:03, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hawkins
I deleted the paragraph with Hawkins' calculation about fighting Kizaru. Those numbers surely are based even on Hawkins's abilities and are not universal, and maybe they're based even on the circumstances. I hope no one will get angry. --Meganoide 20:52, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

Another testament to his power, possibility?
Shouldn't it be worth mentioning that he emerged unharmed and uninjured after the Battle Of Marineford, under his abilities & powers?I&#39;llbeniceandkind 19:40, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

No, you've tried adding that as your last three usernames and the reason is still the same. A lot of people emerged unharmed from the war, too many for it to matter. You can change your username again, and it still won't be added. 19:43, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Might I point out here, renaming is regarded as a attempted abuse of the system, in this case, you can ban a person for it... Please can you not renameyourself illbeniceandkind. One-Winged Hawk 21:25, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance?
Shouldn't it be mentioned under his appearance that his standard outfit consists of a dark gray shirt and a light blue tie?Iwillapologizeifyougivemeachancetodoso 21:58, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

First of all, the shirt is dark green, the tie is mauve. Secondly, we don't need to add this kind of stuff. That's why we have pictures. 22:03, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Kizaru's Haki abilities?
Shouldn't it be added that Kizaru used powerful Haki attacks against Silvers Rayleigh under his Haki abilities?Isaidiwassorrywhatmorecanido 18:13, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

We would be speculating on that, and the wiki doesn't tolerate speculation (tho according to Seaterror, it is partially allowed in the trivia section). 18:18, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Why Wasn't He Considered for Fleet Admiral? (Speculation)
I'm just curious here. Did it ever say (or why do you think) why Borsalino wasn't considered for the fleet admiral position? All the admirals are strong enough, and I'm sure he has a better work ethict than Aokiji76.97.147.177 20:21, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it was his absentmindedness, or maybe simply because he had no recommendations. He didn't stand out at Marineford like Akainu did, and he wasn't recommended by Sengoku like Aokiji was. Remember to sign your posts too. 20:04, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Z Render in infobox.
It appears the edit war here hasn't gotten any better today, so here's a talk page discussion about this. 1) He is not physically different in Z, only the outfit is. (And the outfit isn't even that different, either.) This means it breaks the rule on when to use the switch template. And it was corrected on Law's page after you brought that up, Gal. 2) Bad render is bad. Renders are against the rules except for in cases where no other picture can be provided, however I do believe there is concept and promotional art of Kizaru that could be used instead of this LQ render.

Even so, it still breaks the rule on when to use the switch, so no post-TS picture should be used in the infobox anyways. 07:00, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

I believe having this image violates our guidelines simply because it's from Film Z, which we treat as non-canon. If the movie isn't canon, neither are the appearances. Having their Film Z outfits is just misleading and hypocritical. It's either canon or it isn't. We need to decide that. As for the argument that Oda drew them in SBS, that couldn't be anymore false. Oda drew sketches of them in the volume to promote the movie. The sketches were not complete drawings, and they were not part of the question corner. Not everything after a chapter in a volume is part of the SBS, and this is one of them. It's a special couple of pages to show Film Z sketches, nothing more. Since they're incomplete drawings that don't have an actual appearance and they're part of a film we treat as non-canon, they should not be part of any infobox. 07:12, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

The characters in the film aren't canon. The film events aren't canon. Oda's designs of his canon characters are canon. Why is this so hard to understand? 15:32, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Because it doesn't make any sense. If the events aren't canon, the appearances aren't either. Oda makes many designs for movies. Does this make each villain canon? No, because their appearances are not canon. Everything they did never happened in a canonical storyline. To be absolutely consistent, the canon characters should be treated the same way. Oda never put these new appearances in a canon media. He made the designs for the movie. If we're going to treat the movie as non-canon, the appearances should be treated as non-canon too. This is how you stay consistent. If we're not consistent, we contradict ourselves. That's the worst thing an encyclopedia could do. 16:36, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't even matter if the appearance is canon or not for Borsaino. He is not physically different, so he does not deserve a post-TS picture in the infobox. 16:42, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, it's totally useless. You can tell by the fact that if you don't know where it comes from you will never able to tell that it's post-timeskip. Plus it's horrible. Can I go ahead and remove it?

I find this a little ironic that Gal who was all for "destorying every render infobox picture" is now trying to get a non canon render picture as the post timeskip infobox xD

Either way, I remember that we are no long to use renders as infobox pictures now, so we can't use the Z picture as the post timeskip infobox image anyway. 17:03, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Jade is right, it's a render, not to mention the new pic is basically just a tinier version of what we already have. Get rid of it. 17:10, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Done, though the page is still protected. DP you have to decide when removing the protection.

I believe we should allow switches for outfit changes and not just physical changes but we should never allow non-canon images as a main profile image. SeaTerror (talk) 19:20, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

I can agree with that, but that's a moot point in this case because Kizaru hasn't changed his wardrobe at all. 21:00, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

It was a minor change. I meant all changes. Only thing that is different is no tie. SeaTerror (talk) 21:18, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

He's wearing a different undershirt now. The render forum was about replacing renders with anime images if they were available, but renders themselves aren't illegal. Nada, it makes perfect sense. Oda isn't going to design these characters to look differently if he's just going to change them later. The Z images are Oda's teasers of what the characters will look like, and if you can't accept the author's art, then lol. 22:30, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? You guys think the turtleneck (which is the same color as his last shirt) and the lack of a tie is enough of a change to add it to the infobox? This is exactly why we need the the physical change rule.

And like I said in my first post, there's plenty of concept art and promotional images of Kizaru post-TS available that can be used instead of this bad render. 22:38, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

The infobox should be the latest image anyways JSD. No need for the Post and Pre skip switch. Check the anime/manga switch forum for more info. 22:42, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

I posted in that forum as well, and as far as I can tell, nothing has been decided there.

The infobox shouldn't be the latest picture, it should be the best picture. The infobox is used for identification purposes, and it is a lot easier to identify Borsalino in the HQ pre-skip picture than it is in the crappy post-skip render. There's nothing wrong with having the render in the gallery, but it should not be in the infobox. 23:01, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Obviously. Find the concept art and put it there, but once again, you aren't reading what I'm saying. Check the anime/manga switch forum for the full details. 23:03, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Canonicity of mentioning Zephyr
If Zephyr (Z) is a strictly non-canon character, then why is his name present under Borsalino's past as having trained the future Admiral? I know he did actually train him (according to the movie), but since the movie, and by extension all "new" characters introduced in it, is non-canon, then why exactly is he mentioned? Is it because Oda devised his backstory? In that case, then it should be that the events of the movie are non-canon, but the character of Z (his backstory etc) is? My point is that there needs to be some distinction established for non-canon characters that have had interaction with canon characters, otherwise then technically canon Zoro has had interaction with Saga from The Cursed Holy Sword.

Non-Canon information is part of the wiki too. 21:45, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

I understand that, and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm arguing just for the sake of it now, but if that's true then why is there no mention of Saga on Zoro's page? It could have easily fit in when he was training at the dojo. And it's great that you guys actually acknowledge stuff that happens in non-canon works. I've been on bleach wikia before, and they are really strict about what goes into character articles. If it's not canon, then it doesn't deserve to be mentioned outside of an "In other media" section.

Forum:Filler History Sections. When this ends, it will decide if the non-canon info can go into the article with a disclaimer. 22:01, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

When was it confirmed that Film Z is in fact non-cannon? WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 14:11, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Way down at the bottom of this, Klobis mentions a quote from the pamphlet that came out with the film. 17:35, January 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, so both the film Z and non-Manga revealed characters in it remains non-cannon until the opposite is proved. Thanks for the link by the way JSD. WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 19:56, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Trivia
This isn't terribly relevant, but was Kunie Tanaka actually in any of the "Trucker Yaro" movies? He isn't listed as having starred in the series on Wikipedia, though Bunta Sugawara (Akainu's inspiration) did. -cg

He is in the movie according to Internet Movie Database. So the trivia is legit. 00:33, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

That's a site where anybody can edit. It's not reliable. SeaTerror (talk) 02:50, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Alias or Epithet?
Is "Kizaru" his alias or epithet? In the intro paragraph it is stated that it is his alias, however, in the infobox it is stated that it is his epithet. So which is it? 03:19, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

His alias 20:05, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Well, ST keeps on insisting it's his epithet and undoes my edit whenever I remove it from the "epithet" parameter in the infobox. 11:45, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it should exist in the inhfobox as an epithet but Kizaru is his alias. 11:52, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

So should we remove it? 11:53, June 27, 2013 (UTC)