Forum:Names Again

I'd just like to say that I really think this site is terrible with names. They erase every correction I make, i.e. Sir Crocodile, Sanjuan Wolf, and Monkey D Luffy.

1. Sir Crocodile is most likely Crocodile's full name, or at the very least Sir is his title every time he is fully introduced (he's one of the rare characters to have a formal introduction twice) his name is written サー•クロコダイル, which translates to Sir Crocodile. But every time I change this, it is changed back. I'm willing to admit that it might be a title, but if that is the case then they should remove the Don from Don Krieg's page. Because Don is definitely not part of Krieg's name. He's just Krieg, check out his Wanted poster that's all that their is written. P.S. Almost every Japanese site spells Crocodile's name out as サー•クロコダイル when introducing him (including the official Japanese One Piece site).

Here's a message a left the user KDom after he reversed my edits concerning Sir Crocodile's name:

"Well if you read the original Japanese raws when he is introduced you can see that his name is spelled　サー•クロコダイル chapter 155、 the Japanese site when introducing him also calls him サー•クロコダイル: http://www.j-onepiece.com/chapter02/story/story5_1.html. Characters occasionally, including Nico Robin, call him サー•クロコダイル. I was inclinded to think that this was only a title as a Royal Shichibukia until I read chapter 540 in the original Japanese, which still introduced him as サー•クロコダイル. Having the title Sir after being revoked of his status as a Shichibukai. Also this isn't a title of the Shichibukai at all. When Jinbei is introduced, his name is simply stated as ジンベエ not サー•ジンベエ. So I'm inclined to go with the original Japanese manga over the character book. What do you think?"

2. Sanjuan Wolf. For some reason someone on this site thinks Sanjuan Wolf name should be San Juan Wolf. If that was the case then his name in Japanese would have been spelled サン•ファン•ワルフ, but it isn't it's spelled サンファン•ワルフ. Every character in the original text of One Piece has the spaces in their names separated by the marker •, even in speech bubbles. Even titles such as Captain or Don are separated by the mark •. So why is サンファン•ワルフ translated San Juan Wolf? Because of the places? Well he's not those places, his name is very simular but until we see a Wanted Poster showing the correcting spelling we should all assume there is no space.


 * Sanjuan's name is revealed as I thought, I of course have some satisfaction in my correct prediction.Mr.S 10:45, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

3. Monkey D Luffy. Actually this goes to towards the entire D clan. For some reason this site feels the necessary to put a period after every D in the D clansmen's names. Here why that is wrong. If you put a period after the D it signifies that it has been shortened. The D is not shortened. That this entire name. Luffy's full name isn't Monkey Delware Luffy, It's Monkey D Luffy. The periods after the Ds are errors. No one in the series has stated anything for us to believe that there is more to the name than just D. It is true that the name D might stand for something but the name itself is just D, until proven otherwise. P.S. technically speaking Luffy's name is spelled out Monkey•D•Luffy. That's how it's spelled on his wanted poster dots and all. His wanted poster is the only one shown that has those dots.

Edit: I forgot to include my strongest point for the D not having a period. Read chapter 574, when Portgas D Rouge names her son, she says Gol D Ace. Now when naming your child don't you think that you would say his whole name, and not just an initial? That's because she did.

So I implore this site to fix these errors, as I have tried and have been stopped every step of the way. Mr.S 13:14 May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. See Crocodile talk page.


 * 2. This is how the 'San Juan' written in Japanese.


 * 3. D is a middle initial.


 * No one in the series has stated anything for us to believe that there is more to the name than just D.
 * Oda stated. Tipota 13:47, May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * The "D." has always been written as that when used BY the D's and "D" when referenced on its own, but this is as far as I'm aware. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 11:28, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. Ok, all that proves is that I haven't been the first to point out that Crocodile's surname is most likely Sir. Which raises the questions of why there is no mention of Sir at all in his page.


 * 2. You are still ignoring that every character's name in One Piece is spaced by •. And by the way San Juan is spelled multiple ways in Japanese the most common being サンフアン and サンワン. Both of which are different from the One Piece character's name サンファン. Katakana is a far than perfect phonetic alphabet used to try and convert foreign words into Japanese to make them easier to say by native Japanese speakers. Just because a character's name is spelled out similar word in Katakana doesn't mean they are have the exact spelling when translated into the roman alphabet and vice versa (see the multiple San Juan spellings above). So that argument is null if you ask me.


 * 3. Please state in which volume that the SBS states that Oda says this. I'll go to a Book Off tomorrow and check it out. But even then, if it does stand for something that doesn't mean that it's an initial. My full middle name can be Seph, and I was named after Sephiroth. That doesn't mean my name is spelling of the name Someone Seph. Somebody. If it is true that the D is an initial I'm very curious that no character seems to be aware of what the rest of the name means. And if they aren't aware of it then that would mean that it is currently just D. Maybe their will be an event later that will cause characters to somewhat change their names adding to the D. But as of now nothing suggests in the manga that their is anymore to D than just D. Again I could be wrong but I would like to read the original Japanese SBS where he says there is more to the name than D.Mr.S 14:46, May 25, 2010 (UTC)Mr.S


 * Chopper does not have a dot between the 2 Tony and we do not write it Tonytony. Since the D are a very particular case I don't think they should be considered. In the romanisation you gave there isn't a dot either. It's obviously a reference to the spanish surname, so I think it settles the case. Kdom 20:23, May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * While this is definitely the most convincing argument anyone has presented yet, the only thing I consider confirmed is that Chopper's given name is spelled Chopper. There has been no official spelling of his surname. His wanted poster only has Chopper written. What we do not is that every other wanted poster that does have a space (Roronoa Zoro, and Nico Robin) all have dots to separate their names. So I'm inclined to believe that Chopper's full name may well be Tonytony Chopper. Also those other names I gave don't have a dot because they aren't names from the One Piece manga. They are actually names of places and people in Japanese spelled in our world, not the manga. That was my point. In the One Piece MANGA every name is separated by a •. Even titles like Captain, Don have a • when used with a name. Mr.S 01:09, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * For Chopper's name there has been an official spelling in various official sources such as the Yellow data book.Mugiwara Franky 03:19, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok I'm willing to concede as the Data books are considered "official." Though to be honest these data books also apparently make no mention of the Sir in Sir Crocodile, so it makes me question their validity. Let me just say that I will not be convinced until I see it in the manga, as I believe that to be the only True text of One Piece. But then again I'm a perfectionist.Mr.S 13:45, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edit: Actually I found that in the manga's 4th Character popularity fan poll Chopper's name is spelled Tonytony.Chopper. So yeah another official source that spells his first name with as TonytonyMr.S 14:52, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Volume 17 SBS Chapter 147, Oda apologizes for a mistake that happened with the first printing of Volume 16. He says the intended spelling of Chopper's name is Tony Tony Chopper.Mugiwara Franky 17:35, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, that is true, then I'll admit that I was proven wrong, I'll go to Book Off tomorrow and check out this for myself, very good find.Mr.S 11:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the D in the name, it has been constantly been pointed out in the manga itself that it's an initial. In Whitebeard's last drink with Roger, he asked Roger what the D stands for. Robin also asked Saul the same question.Mugiwara Franky 03:25, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all it has been been pointed out in the manga that it is an initial. What is an initial in a name? It is the first letter of a proper name. I am thinking that a lot of people here just can't accept that a one letter name can be a proper name, it can. But anyway on with my counter argument. Your Saul link only re-enforces my believe that the D is not an initial but a proper name. When questioned about the D, he does not say "It short for..." He only states that he doesn't really know much about it, and that his whole family has it. I perfect situation to tell his full name, but he doesn't because that is his full name.


 * The Roger/Whitebeard conversation is even more convincing that D is the proper name and not just an initial. When talking about how the Government has been falsely calling him "Gold Roger" he says that his name is "Gol D Roger." He just stated his full name. Why would he shorten it when he is announcing to Newgate about an error in his name? Whitebeard asks about the D, and Roger says he will tell him. Whitebeard doesn't ask him what it short for, nor does Roger imply that their is more to the name other than what it might elude to.


 * I have never said that the D didn't stand for something. I am saying that it's not an initial. Ω can stand for something, but we don't place a period next to it because it's not short for anything. Ω is Ω, and D can be D. While I can openly accept that the D may have once been part of a longer name, but I bet your name is spelled and pronounced differently than how it was originally. What I'm implying is that in the current story the D is D, unless every character in every situation decided "yeah I don't feel like saying my full name I'll just say the initial instead." Mr.S 13:45, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * In names, single letters are usually initials especially if they are in the middle of one's full name. In stating one's full name, it's actually just as proper to state your full name with initials as to state your full name not shortened. Reasons for stating your full name with the initials can vary from the shortened name being too long to just how they prefer to refer themselves. It's true that single letters can be proper names but it's not usually the case.


 * For the Saul situation, it is treating the D as an initial. Robin upon hearing it, asked what it stands for like how a person would normally ask another what their initial stands for. Saul not knowing what it means can be just a case that he doesn't know what it means. There can be people that state their full names but may not the origin due to various reasons. A girl can state that her name is Dorothy Garland Maryweather and not know that her name was created from a combination of a famous actress and a famous role she did.


 * For the Roger situation, it is also treating the D as an initial. Roger was stating that Gol and D are separate and not one word. Him shortening it is him explaining the error that the Government. For Whitebeard, while he doesn't exactly ask what it stands for in those exact words, the context of his question is the same.


 * For D being like Ω, that's a bit overspeculating. Ω is widely accepted and known as a symbol. The D on the other hand in the characters' name is a mystery. It could be a symbol but there's kinda nothing concrete pointing towards it being a symbol. There are some points but those points also point it being an initial if not more.Mugiwara Franky 14:17, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Where and what points does are you talking about. Everything you have listed so far has only re-enforced by belief that D is the full name. Everything in the manga has pointed that D is the full name but their is some hidden meaning to it. That's different that being the first letter in their names. Remember an initial is the first letter of a proper name. By saying D is an initial you are saying that every D clansmen have more to their name, which would mean they already know the full name. If they aren't named something longer than D it isn't an initial. Thus when Portgas D Rogue said her child's name was "God D Ace" she wasn't shortening anything, same goes for Roger when he announces his name to Whitebeard. There might be an event that occurs which causes characters to change their name from D to something longer, but that would be a change from it's current state as D. And yes Ω is a symbol but it's also a character in the roman alphabet just as D is a character in the English alphabet, see where I'm getting at?Mr.S 14:52, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Can I remind you here Mr. S that the Japanese text is what Oda, Japanese, is trrying to convey in Japanese. There HAVE been cases where name and Latin do not work out the same or have about 3 translations (see Thriller Bark). To simply say "we're wrong" is incorrect, and to say your "correct" is incorrect, because sometimes there ISN'T a definate answer yet. And we NOT get one for YEARS. We do the best we can where. One-Winged Hawk 21:54, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, when I try to edit this site, (which takes took time, consideration, and thought) almost all of my edits are erased. Only once was I given a reason why, I have given reasons why I changed what I did, but it took me calling out this thread for me to get some real feedback. I was trying my best as well, and I felt that undoing my edits is indirectly calling me wrong, so can't I voice my opinion as well. I think this is a good debate and consider this thread a success as both sides are explaining their reasons. I'm reminded you as a fan of One Piece, that I want information about it to be as accurate as possible.


 * For your edits being somewhat constantly being reverted, it kinda somewhat has to do with how they seem. Considering most of them are name changes, it's not that farfetched for an editor or two to think that you are doing something wrong. An instance is like with the D's, it's kinda widely accepted in an unspoken understanding between editors and most fans that it's an initial. Changing it to simply a letter is kinda a very drastic change to most and can be interpreted as doing something wrong. This is especially so since you didn't discussed it beforehand.


 * Your contributions and the contributions of others are always welcome. However you must know that not all contributions can be perceived correct to everyone. What one person perceives like a justification of how a name should be interpreted, can perceived as wrong to others.Mugiwara Franky 14:40, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Volume 8 SBS Chapter 70 Page 168. Oda was asked by a fan what the D in Luffy's name stands. This and many others are the many letters fans have sent to him asking the same question. While Oda doesn't reveal anything, it appears that many people see it as an initial and not a single letter proper name even as early as East Blue.Mugiwara Franky 15:03, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

While I admit this does leave it a bit ambiguous, I can't help but find it funny that you are ignoring Oda's request to read it as D. And then again we all are breaking the request not to think about it. I still think that while the D stands for something, it's not an initial.


 * Yet its only ever written out as "D.". Regardless, the circling argument here is what conditions the "d" is being used under and how its used. As I said, normally when in a name it appears "D." Like "Monkey D. Luffy" but when NOT used like this, it usually becomes "D". There ARE exceptions. I believe mythbusters has a section on D theories and what they mean, but thats a differnet discussion. One-Winged Hawk 21:54, May 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Um, no it isn't. In the original Japanese, let just use Luffy as an example, Luffy's name is spelled out MONKEY•D•LUFFY. Those dots are not periods. If that was the case Luffy's name Monkey. D. Luffy. Those dots are used as spaces for every character's name. Even titles are given a • in a name, i.e. Captain Kuro, Don Krieg. Robins name when spelled out in manga in katakana is ニコ•ロビン but when spelled in the English alphabet it Nico Robin, no period. You can argue that sense Luffy's wanted poster is the only one that has two •, then that might signify a period, but I think that's a pretty far step. The fact is there is never a period given in the manga. Now in the translations I assume that you are talking about I am sure their are a lot of periods given to the D clansmen. But I am thinking this is just because of English mindset were if they hear Monkey D Luffy, they assume it's the same as F.D.R. which it doesn't have to be. If you open your mind to the possibility of a one letter name then you can see that it can be an easy mis-translation. Especially sense no character has ever said anything besides D ever, not when naming their child, not when correcting a mistake about how their name is pronounces. It has only ever been D.Mr.S 11:31, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * While one letter names are indeed a possibility, the usual thinking will always be that it is an initial especially when placed in the middle of a full name. For no one explaining what the D stands for, just because it has not been explained yet doesn't instantly mean that it is just D. The reason why it has yet to be explained is that whatever Oda has in mind for what it stands for, it's most likely going to be big. He just doesn't want it to be revealed before the right time. There was a potential chance for it to be explained with Roger's last drink with Whitebeard but the flashback was cut short. The words that he said may not be 100% to what you maybe thinking, but the context of the conversation can be interpreted to something similar to an initial.


 * It's nice to speculate that the D in these characters' name is a proper name and not an initial, but there's no other evidence other than the wanted poster to support your theory. You may not agree with it, but with single letters especially those in the middle, everyone and anyone is gonna believe first that it is an initial. With the mystery that's been building up of what it stands for, all the more people are gonna believe it is an initial. Initials and shortened words can have no periods like NASA or so forth, but it's not usually something that is done in full names.Mugiwara Franky 12:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Umm, Mr. S, you really don't need to say I told you so even if reworded. The official romanizations of the Blackbeard pirates were not known and most people were going with what was technically the closest to what could have been intended at the time.Mugiwara Franky 09:21, August 9, 2010 (UTC)