Forum:Making Blog Rules

I think its time we finally settle on some real blog rules so DP can no longer abuse his power with locking or deleting them.

First two proposed rules are: 1) No blog rules 2) If not that then anything non-OP related is allowed. This is obviously just a rough draft. Just comment and come up with your own rules. SeaTerror 21:36, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Your hard on for DP is amusing. Cheese Lord 21:37, June 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * But anyways, I think we should have no real blog rules. Unless it's spam or porn or something like that. Cheese Lord 21:55, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe setting up some blog categories is not such a bad idea...

Yes. The time has come for this forum. 22:02, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose to the "non op related" part because my lessons are non-related, but they're quality blogs. 22:04, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's just the thing. Your lessons aren't necessarily one piece related but they have content and effort in them. Stuff like the latest blog dp deleted wasn't even a complete sentence. 22:38, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't see that blog and assumed it was bad anyway because of the person that made it. An example of him deleting a blog would be when he deleted Calu's boob avatar blog. Also we do not need blog categories. I forgot about porn but that should be against the rules too. The only problem with a no spam rule is what is spam can be subjective. SeaTerror 00:01, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of categories a lot, because while I've seen lots of blogs about personal ideas/analysis on characters, etc that I'd really love to read more of, I never read the blogs. I never read them because there are just so many other blogs about stuff I just do not care about. The sheer volume of the blogs I don't care about just keeps me away from that section almost entirely, and I've been using the wiki for close to two years now. If we had categories, it would be so much easier and more enjoyable to process the blogs. I don't really know the capabilities of wikia to make categories, but I think it would be pretty cool if for example, we could compile all the predictions of the dialogue the next chapter into one category (or sub-category, as I think this example would be a better sub-category) so that it would be super-easy to compare everyone's different predictions. And while many people's blog's wouldn't fit into categories, as long as everyone's ok with having a large "miscellaneous" section, then categories really are a nice idea. Like I said, I hardly look at the blogs, so this is just my opinion as kind of an outsider from them. JustSomeDude... 00:47, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Making categories for the blogs might be good, but by the same token it might be a complete waste of time. I deleted Calu's blog because it was basically telling everyone to find and make their favorite rack into their avatar, which makes us look like a bunch of retarded nymphomaniacal lemmings. If you're going to cite Neo's stuff as a counterexample (and let's face it, you are), she was able to keep her stuff from leaking out onto the mainspace and the comments stayed for the most part pretty clean, as well as few and far apart. You may not like it, ST, but I'm an admin, and as such, I reserve the right to dispose of or disable materials I deem inappropriate or pointless. If you stopped to ask me, you'd know that I don't favor strictly One Piece related blogs, but blogs about the wiki in general so long as they're constructive, which is why I never objected to Jop's lesson blogs. The subject of the wiki is from Japan, and we see honorifics and the like in the manga, anime, and SBS, so why wouldn't I allow someone who is knowledgeable in that regard to share it with the community? Lately I've been viewing blogs as more of an annoyance, even if I occasionally partake in them. How sacred is something with a killswitch? The content of blogs has dropped to such low standards, that I would be doing a disservice not to delete the crap of the crop when they come along. They're a feature that is currently active, and that's all. We're a wiki first, a fansite second, so I can treat the optional feature that makes us a fansite however I choose. For you, this is less about the blogs and more about trying to make me atone for doing something you don't like. How many other people have complained that I've abused my power when deleting blogs like you have? None, that's how many. Anything an admin does that you don't like you claim is an abuse of power. I remember one time you said Yatanogarasu and I were abusing our power for holding a forum about an issue? Really? Trying to be fair is abuse of power? Ask yourself, what is the real issue you're trying to bring up here? 05:12, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that having some rules (or at least guidelines) will do good for everyone, blog author, reader, and admin alike. The things that an admin does could be seen as good by some and bad by others. If we have some obvious lines being drawn, at least when an admin deleted some blogs or comments will no longer be question as abusing of power, unless what they did does not fit into the rules or guidelines set.

Again I stress that my main point of having the rules or guidelines is to be fair to all - the blog author, reader and admin. Blog author will know what can and cannot be blogged about (e.g. porn or offensive content or spam, etc), readers will know what can and cannot be put down as comment (I'm still feeling bad for indirectly causing a user to be banned for a couple of days in one of my blogs) and admins will not be seen as power abusing if they take down any blog or comments which does not fall under the rules or guidelines. 06:12, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I think blogs need to be OP or atleast wiki related. The only other things I would request would be, the really short blogs that people make are really annoying, so can you people please elaborate on a subject because it's honestly just a waste of space. The next is the opposite those really long rambling paragraphs about total bullshit, there are exceptions like the funny ones by people like mdm, predictions and summaries are fine too. And the last is the bitching blogs, if people do the wrong thing we don't need a fucking blog about it that's what forums like this are for. 06:43, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I will just say my piece of mind since this forum is about blogs. Yes there needs to be some guidelines about blogs, they don't have to be detail but at least clear enough to support admin's decision if he/she deleted a blog. I always trusted a admin's decisions and if they delete a blog then I can understand their reason behind it. My blog had their comments closed and I don't mind cause that blog was really going in the wrong direction at that time. Thou everyone was having fun and stuff but we have to remember we are One Piece Wiki, not thubler or something like that >_> .. so if a list of 8-10 blog rules are made then that might really make these issues less complicated and people will understand why their blog get deleted rather then annoy admin over it all the time. My blogs are not always one piece friendly and the comments are notwhere near what people should be discussing but I keep it going cause people are having fun. If someone does feel offended because of my blogs then I aim to take it down immediately. Monkey.D.Me 18:48, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

It seems like there already a few rules that admins already follow and most of the people who wrote here are in favor of them. It seems that anything that is abusive, unhelpful, or damaging to the wiki (and damaging to the wiki's image, ie: porn, spam) shouldn't be allowed. I agree that Jop's lessons are non-OP related, but I also think they're quite helpful for the community, so I think there should be exceptions made not only for his blogs, but others that may be like it in the future. These rules may not get rid of as much as some people desire, but they would definitely get rid of all the stuff that's truly the worst of it. All there really needs to be now is a place where those rules are published and easy to find for all the blog users. JustSomeDude... 13:47, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Since I see major agreement in having some basic written blog rules, should we have some sort of discussion over it or should it be done by poll as well? Just curious and eager :P Monkey.D.Me 21:31, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

There are no rules yet. They just make up their own stuff. Non-OP related blogs should always be allowed unless blatant spam or pornographic. SeaTerror 22:12, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

How about rules on re-posting blogs, re-posting tourney or daily-diaries or chain-fanfric blogs that has no relation to One Piece? We also need a rule on how much content a blog MUST have in order to be considered a blog. At least 50 words if you ask me. SO these little things needs to be discussed as well. Monkey.D.Me 22:24, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

By your 50 word rule stuff like the chibi marines I posted as a blog wouldn't be allowed because it was basically just a sentence and some pretties.

hmm how about 25? or 35? come on Panda, anyone can write at least 25-35 words in introducing the blog, mini explanation and blog closer. I know you can do it .. its just members like LKK I am worried about >_> .. if you know what I mean. *cough*MakinABlog*cough* .. there is nothing wrong with that blog but it just misleads some other new members to make some shitty one-liner blogs. Monkey.D.Me 22:38, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

If there should be blog rules:

1) No non-op blogs. Like announcing something that happened in your real life. There are diaries for that. Or talking for another anime or manga alone. Go to their wiki for that.

2) Blogs that will lead to a spam in the activity. When the 'author' asks for a game that everyone has to comment.

And about the categories in the blogs. I'll say no.

@MDM. DP disabled the comments in that blog, so shut up.

The blog categories are just a way to make it easier for us retrieve and manage the blogs... I mean if we had a category "non op-related blogs" and now we decide to remove all of them you don't have to hunt them down in this category. Mine was simply a suggestion for a better organization, it's not a blog rule. Another advice: we should also decide if the rules decide here will be retroactive (normally they are).

@LPK, .. after 500 useless, worthless and purposeless comments? XDXDXD

Well I agree with Levi on having blog categories. If the Blog is one piece related then it must fall under one of the listed category and if it does not then its non-Op related and should no be there. More organized and straightforward.

Monkey.D.Me 19:13, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

I've already said I'm for the creation of categories. Even if the two categories are just OP-related and non-OP related. I don't think we should be terribly strict about the OP related blogs, as long as we can separate the serious OP blogs from the ones that are made "just for fun". And awhile ago DP posted the rules for the Avatar wiki on SeaTerror's talk page, and there was some interesting stuff there.

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_Wiki:User_blog_policy

While the vast majority of them would be too strict to impliment here without people flipping out, I did find one rule I thought was really good. "Their intention (meaning the blogs) is not to act only as a conversation starter. Thus, blog posts should present some substantial content and should, at the very least, be one, full paragraph (and not one sentence)." That's not to say I don't want people to start conversations, I just think the forum is a better place for it. That way it's not like one person is responsible for the conversation. (and can be blamed if it gets out of hand.) JustSomeDude...  01:33, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

I can agree with that. 02:08, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Moving all the discussion to forums and have blogs serve its purpose as presentation content .. That might be tough to astablish on this wiki since most of the blogs are pure opinions that people want to start discussion on. While I agree with adopting some of the key blog-rules from avatar wiki, it's really impossible to maintain it unless strict watch and supervision is kept on the blog activity. Unless this responsibility is divided, all this work will come down on our admins and I am sure they have much more important things to handle the supervise all blogs. Avatar wiki has vast number of active admins while we have only 2 who are more then enough for controlling the wiki activity but I am not sure about this task. So in the end the it's up to DP and YATA .. Weather to make a blog-supervision team or do it themselves.

Monkey.D.Me 04:28, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I look at all that and all I see is this. 05:47, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Blog rules would have to be voted on by the entire community. I'm against blog categories 100%. SeaTerror (talk) 20:05, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

@ MDM. I don't think the rule on conversation starting is meant to ban conversation starting, just meant to ban *short* conversation starters. For example, a blog that consists entirely of "Do you guys think Luffy could beat ____?" would be too short for a blog. But if someone wanted to start a conversation about if Luffy could beat whoever, and made an entire paragraph explaining their own opinion or different points that would affect the outcome of the fight, then that is totally ok. It's just a matter of thought. If someone wants to start a conversation with thought (and length) then they can do it with a blog. If they want to do nothing but start the conversation (meaning there's not much length), then they should do that in the more public forum. As to where the line should be, I'm not really sure. It's hard to put a number on what's substantial or not, especially if there's picture involved in it, because a picture speaks a thousand words. In the end, it's very subjective, in my mind at least. If something is on the fence, instead of just deleting or moving something right away, the admin could close the comments and give the person several days to either a) add content to the blog or b) move the blog to the forum themselves.

And MDM does bring up another good point that if the blogs become more regulated, that is more work for our dear admins. If we look at the avatar wiki, they use an administrator noticeboard, and a user reporting system to manage them. Take a look: http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_Wiki:Administrator_noticeboardIt seems that it works fairly smoothly for them, and they have more strict rules, and what looks like more users than us. It also looks like they use it for more than just blogs, banning vandal anon editors, deleting pages, anything that needs admin attention, etc. Basically a lot of stuff that we use the admin's talk pages for, but centralized. I think the benefit of it is that while the admins would have more to examine/delete, if the rest of us report well enough, then at least the admins don't have to go reading everything to find the stuff themselves. But again with what MDM said, it's more work for the admins, and I'm completely ok with it if they don't want to manage the blogs more than they already do. It's their work, so it's their call. JustSomeDude... 14:40, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

What about controlling the images of the blogs but not minding the text? I see the thing that worries some of you the most is the possibility of having lots of images non-op related.. That might be a point. By the way, the argument "I'm an admin and I erase what I think is pointless" is horrible! Power abuse? Let's take this peacefully, people! ^^ Khaliszt (talk)

This needs a bump, because it is still very unresolved. 22:12, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

BUMP!! Indeed this is a un-resolved issue and we have yet to create a list of rules, policies or guidelines for blogs. Make it short with around just 5-10 rules but we should have a solid control over blog-posts to maintain blog-quality. So, since everyone has nothing else to do then troll ST's blog .. lets get thid issue resolved ^_^ 01:22, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Since no one is taking the lead except me and dude .. I will start on a Rough Guidelines draft myself .. reply if you disagree or want to add a guideline rules:


 * 1) Blog MUST be more then 20 sentences. 2 Intro, 2 Ending and 16 sentence of elaborated text of whats your blog about and what do you require the readers to do.


 * 1) (LPK's Idea) Blogs that will lead to a spam in the activity. When the 'author' asks for a game that everyone has to comment.


 * 1) (LPK's Idea as-well) No non-op blogs. Like announcing something that happened in your real life. There are diaries for that.


 * NO, re-posting old already-discussed blogs, re-hosting tourney or daily-diaries or chain-fanfric blogs that has no relation to One Piece.

well these are some that I came up with but I would request Admins to add few of rules they judge the blogs by to decide either to keep the blog or delete it. 18:55, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

'ADD

No misleading or False-Advertisement Titles that are aimed toward bringing in more readers. The title of the blog must be related to the Blog content.

(Looks at LPK)

Don't make me repeat myself Mister =_=  19:08, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we need any blog rules if a admin finds a blog is spam or anything like that he can remove it and that's all, we dont need any rules for blogs. 13:09, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * If that's something that people want, then we should at least have some list of things that DP finds "removable." If only so that people can have something to refer to in order to know if their blogs are ok. If there are already are rules that DP follows, the rest of us should probably know what they are. 14:05, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

BUMP!! The goal is not to make new blog rules .. its to have the current blog-rules that Admins judge the blogs by written somewhere for reference purpose. If you are against making new rules then thats fine but how about having the current blog-rules written. Oh trust me, if not now then in future people will want to know the Blog, Chat, Comment and Edit rules and policies. This is just a early walk-up call. 02:53, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * My suggestion is: Only Blogs on either One Piece in general (predictions, reviews, news, nitpicks etc.) or about this wiki (e.g. for site news on the main page, or reasonable critics) should be allowed. And there has to be some sense in the blog posts or else they should be deleted as spam activity and troll posts (e.g. "OP is shit!" stuff from narutards and bleachheads - regular fans are still welcome of course.) Blog authors may decide whether or not to allow comments. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 17:40, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

I call for a rule that don't allow blogs bitching about whatever, including accusing people of lying to other people. 06:40, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

BUMP DAT FORUM!! 02:13, August 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * My BUMP brings all the guys to the Forum,


 * And damn right, Its better than yours. 02:08, August 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * ^^^BUMP^^^

Well, since I can't seem to get a response out of anyone other than MDM, I propose we start a poll. Let's keep it really simple for now and have the only question on the poll be "Should there be blog rules, yes or no?" Does that sound ok? 04:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. I would have to see what rules we would be putting down before I vote on anything. Right now, I would want some order, but if later someone decides to go over-the-top with the rules, then I wouldn't be able to revoke my decision. For now, we just need a conclusive list of rules, based off of MDM's list above and with the other suggested ones added on. Then we can decide whether or not to add some, then we can vote about whether or not we can add the rules all at once. 04:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The rules we would vote on would be most of the ones people have discussed in detail here. If a rule hasn't been discussed here, then we simply wouldn't have it until a discussion about it occurs here. I think the issue is better handled through separate polls for each rule. There probably won't be too many rules to vote on. (And we wouldn't vote on any obvious rules, like spam/porn/anything that violates other rules of the wiki.) And this way, if there are any new rules that you don't agree with added later, you can vote against them, and you can still get the order you desire. I just wouldn't want people voting against the idea of any rules at all because they really want non-OP related blogs to be allowed. I don't want zero progress just because some people are opposed to one rule. I think the more simple system is to just find out if people really want rules at all, THEN find out which rules they want. 04:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

You have to list which rules were discussed first before making the poll. Then we decide if we really want them or not. SeaTerror (talk) 05:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

You have eyes, don't you? Read the forum, it's not terribly long.

But if you really need a summary of all the possible rules that have been proposed by everyone (not just me) in this forum so far:
 * Whether or not non-OP, non-wiki related blogs should be allowed.
 * Putting a minimum length requirement on blogs. Possible exceptions to blogs centered around images, provided what content there is sound.
 * Preventing the re-blogging of other people's ideas/content.
 * No game/tournament blogs that lead to spam in the wiki activity.
 * Blogs should exist not as merely short conversation starters. Short conversation starters would take place in the forum.
 * No false advertising blog titles.
 * No swears allowed in blog titles. Titles only, not content.
 * Any other rules that admins follow when they delete blogs, but have yet to tell us in this forum. (These are possibly not optional and will not be voted on. I just don't know what they are, because nobody's told me.)

There were also some proposals that are not rules to the blogs, but some changes into the way they are organized:
 * Possibly adding blog categories. Blogs would not be required to fit into set categories, as a large "uncategorized" or "Misc." category would exist. (is it possible to give blogs a table to organize them, like we have for the forums?)
 * Adding an admin noticeboard so that people may notify admins of blogs that need administrator attention.

That's all that's been discussed so far, and more can be added or some can be taken off that list with more detailed discussion. I am not proposing we vote on these rules right away, I am only making a summary to satisfy ST. The only thing I want on the first poll is "Blog Rules, yes or no?" 15:33, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Before opening the poll, I suggest to post a preview of the actual poll to see if anyone has critics about the options, the wording or whatever. This way we will avoid changing stuff mid-way.

^BUMP!!^ mmmmmmm what's up doc?

I think the preview of the poll will look something like this ..

This Poll is to decide if we should have Rules for blogs on this wiki or not and also which blog-rules should we have and which not.

The voting close at BLAHBLAHBLAH. You must have been on here for at least three months and have at least 300 edits to vote on this poll.

SHOULD BE HAVE BLOG-RULES ON THIS WIKI?

Yes

1.

No

1.

WHICH RULES SHOULD BE HAVE AND WHICH NOT?

Should Non-Op Blogs be allowed?

Yes

1.

No

1.

and then similar polls for every single rule the Dude posted above in his post.

So that it, if you want something fixed, let me know ..

  ☆ MDM ☆   ♡♥♡(･ω･)♡♥♡   23:57, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

That looks ok to me, I would just change it to non-OP and non-Wikia related blogs. We should allow blogs that are related to the process of editing/managing the wikia. Other than that, the poll looks fine to me. Make sure UTC is specified in the poll time too. 01:43, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Poll One
The poll is currently closed. The voting closed at 05:00 September 19, 2012 (UTC). You must have been on here for at least three months and have at least 300 edits to vote on this poll.

The only question being asked now is if the wikia wants to have any rules for blogs at all. If it is decided that rules will be made, separate votes and discussions will occur later for those. Please do not vote against rules if you dislike only a few of the rules discussed in this forum.

Should the Wiki have clear rules for Blogs?


 * Yes, the wikia needs rules for blogs.
 * 1)  04:42, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)   04:49, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 04:51, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 05:38, September 5, 2012 (UTC) (Not like super-super strict, like you can only have a certain amount of edits or something like that.)
 * 1) -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 07:36, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)  08:06, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)  10:45, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4)  13:21, September 5, 2012 (UTC)Zori
 * 15:39, September 5, 2012 (UTC) Only certain rules.
 * 17:48, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1)  23:41, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)    23:47, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)  23:36, September 6, 2012 (UTC) nuff said.
 * 4)  Rainelz 03:19, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 04:28, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 04:28, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, the wikia does not need rules for blogs.
 * 1) ( i know i cant win but i still support no rules
 * 2)  15:32, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Post Poll One Discussion
The poll is now closed. It has been decided that blog rules shall be made.

So, where do we go from here? I propose that we create separate discussions for every rule that's been discussed in the rest of the forum (and leave a discussion section for new proposals as well) and after about a week or so of discussion, we start polls in them. If any of the proposed rules don't have any substantial support, then we won't waste time with a poll for them. Does that sound reasonable? 05:11, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. 02:22, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Me too Galaxy9000 (talk) 02:24, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Then it shall be done. Below, I'll put a bunch of new sections for the rules mentioned before. We'll start polls in about a week then?

Where should we post new blog rule ideas, though? A new section? The first discussions? I don't really know, myself... 03:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Non-OP Blogs Discussion
I think blogs that are related to the wikia and it's functioning are fine, and helpful. But I don't see any need for blogs unrelated to OP or the wiki. We're a wiki first, and a fansite second, and we shouldn't be a social media site too. If people really want to talk about non-OP/OP wiki things, do it in chat. 03:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Blogs that relate to the function of the wiki should be allowed as well. However, I am in opposition to the whole "community" blogs because those are too "social-media-ish" to me. 03:32, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Minimum Con Requirement Discussion
I think that this rule's discussion should be a combination of the "Blogs should not exist only as conversation starters" and "minimum length requirement" rules. Does that sound reasonable? They're both restrictions on the minimum content blogs should have. If anyone has concerns about combining them, and thinks they should be separated, say so. 03:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Blogs, to me, are nothing but glorified conversation starters. A good blog is one that provokes thoughtful discussion and makes everyone consider an idea or issue and cover every aspect of it. Minimum length requirements, maybe, but "conversation starter" is unnecessary. 03:39, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

"Re-Blogging" Discussion
What exactly is this? Like remaking old blogs? If that's the case, then shame on you, but if there is new information about the topic of the blog that something thinks should be hashed over, we should not prohibit that. I think part of this coincides with "necroing" blogs, which I absolutely despise. I think it's kind of one-or-the-other. 03:39, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Blog Titles Discussion
This is about the proper etiquette for blog titles. Ex: allowing swears in titles, misleading titles, excessive symbol use, etc...

Personally, I don't think we should have any of that stuff. 03:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Blog Categories Discussion
Should we add categories for blogs? The categories shouldn't actually be a rule, as I don't think the categorization would restrict blogs in any way.

That said, I support blog categories. 03:26, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

How would we denote blogs of a specific category? Anyways, I don't think it's necessary and further complicates the creation of blogs. I don't know too much about this, so I want to hear what some other people have to say before forming a full opinion. 03:39, September 20, 2012 (UTC)