Template talk:Monkey D. Luffy Tabs Top

Age
According to Oda, One Piece Film: Strong World is "Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old", this quote can be found here. Now this is a reputable source and one that should be easy enough to verify if you doubt it. I'm not particularly sure why people keep reverting Luffy's age to 17 since Strong World took place between Saobody and Thriller Bark. This is proven by Sengoku still being Fleet Admiral, the whole crew being together, and Brook being part of the crew. Since Luffy has clearly had another adventure it must mean he is 18 years of age.Bastian964 03:45, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oda's note does indeed say that it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, and events within the film seem to place it between Thriller Bark and Sabaody. However, there are some discrepancies.


 * In the manga, there has yet to be indication that Luffy has celebrated his 18th birthday after Thriller Bark. Did he have his birthday after Strong World, before Sabaody, during Sabody, near the end of Saboady, or so on?
 * Oda says that Strong World is Luffy's adventure as a 17 year old, however how exactly can it be interpreted? Can be interpreted as literally or metaphorically? In a metaphorical sense, during Sabaody and the later arcs, Luffy came into situations that practically overwhelmed. Him not protecting his crew and not saving Ace, are kinda key situations that the normal 17 year old Luffy couldn't easily handle. He kinda needed some self personal character growth that would pretty much surpass Luffy's kid personality.
 * Strong World is called an adventure. However, what is exactly Oda refering the adventure as. Is it Luffy's last 17 year old adventure with his crew? Is it Luffy's last 17 year old personal adventure and not a quest to save a family member?


 * Mugiwara Franky 04:32, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. Does there need to be an indication in the manga? If it happened off screen or if Luffy forgot

about his own birthday, so be it. We have Oda's word that he turned 18.
 * 2. and 3. You are saying that we should take "This story is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old so watch it over and over again!" figuratively. It seems pretty clear cut. He's 17, Strong World happens, he is no longer 17 before his next adventure. Even if you were to try to go all philosophical and argue the meaning of adventure, it would be pretty hard to argue that Luffy's Amazon Lily adventure wasn't an adventure. Also, an adventure is an adventure, whether it is horrific, fun, or personal is not the issue, Oda just states that it is an adventure. Furthermore, if the wiki isn't going to take Oda for his word and just start speculating on the nature of adventure, then who else will. Finally, you are trying to tell me that you think last adventure as a 17 year old means he metaphorically grew up? Seriously? Bastian964 05:02, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Having an indication in the manga kinda justifies stuff so it doesn't seem like speculation. Oda's word by the way, was that Strong World was Luffy's last 17 year old adventure, he didn't say Luffy is now 18 years. You can say that this is a person's last adventure as a 30 years old. It does not mean that exactly before his next adventure, he is 31 years old. He could have become 31 in the middle of the next adventure.


 * Taking from what I said, would the events from Sabaody to current be considered as completely separate adventures with different goals or one single adventure expanding across different parts but with one overall goal.


 * As for what I'm saying, I don't mean that last adventure as a 17 year old means he metaphorically grew up? I kinda mean that Strong World can be interpreted as the last time Luffy would act like his old childish self. After that, especially what happens in Sabaody and Marineford, Luffy's personality would slowly but surely change to a more grown up one.Mugiwara Franky 05:22, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * (indent) That is growing up metaphorically and might be a valid option if Oda said he was going to grow up or that he was mentally no longer going to be a child instead of saying he was no longer going to be 17, no longer 17 means he is now 18. Even if he became 18 in the middle of the next adventure that still makes him 18 since the adventure is over. I'll give you a hint, it doesn't matter if they are considered separate adventures or the same one (though they certainly didn't have the same goal since some of them were to get back to his friends and some of them were to free Ace) considering it's over and thus he is now 18. Bastian964 16:41, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * True, it would be clearer if Oda had said that after Strong World Luffy grows up. However, what he said really doesn't necessarily support Luffy being 18 to a degree. His quote was that Strong World would be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old. He however really does not specifically say Luffy is no longer 17 years old.


 * Sure, you can interpret that because Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old therefore Luffy becomes 18 years old some time after the movie. However, some real specifics like a birthday scene or a box stating Luffy's age, it really falls into speculations. It's like guessing a sequence without getting all the details. The sequence I say is like this:


 * A;B;C;D
 * A=1 and B=2 so what is C?
 * Based on A and B, C would probably be 3.
 * This however is wrong, because D is unknown.
 * Without D, B could be 3, 4, 1, or whatever else.


 * The problem with Oda's quote is kinda like that. Without Oda specifically saying that Luffy is no longer a 17 year old, you really can't second guess that Luffy is definitely 18.


 * Also while the incident with Ace is over, it kinda doesn't justify that Luffy is now 18. It still comes within the realm of speculation because it still speculates that Luffy had his birthday somewhere between before Sabaody to current events. There's nothing definite to go on other than Oda's word which could be interpreted otherwise.Mugiwara Franky 17:49, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * A happens, A is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, sometime later B happens, before or during B Luffy becomes 18. The statement couldn't be any clearer unless Oda decided to get needlessly redundant. It doesn't need any birthday scene or age box because we have Oda's word that Luffy is no longer 17. It is not speculation to say that Luffy is 18 because the next adventure is already OVER. If you don't trust the word of the author then this isn't much of an encyclopedia especially since I have refute any other alleged meanings. My final words on your denial, I have refuted every single one of your statements and now your just making stuff up with the whole A doesn't necessarily beget B, when in fact Oda's statement forces A then B. Bastian964 18:43, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * The statement is only clear that A is Luffy's last adventure. The "sometime later B happens, before or during B Luffy becomes 18" is vague and is the problem. There is no definite specifics like A is Luffy's last adventure. It's just assuming that maybe he became 18 without any evidence.


 * As to the next adventure is over, is it really the B you speak of. True, the treks that Luffy went through Impel Down and Marineford can be considered as adventures but are they considered as adventures to Oda? If we speculate that they are, then the assumption range is small. But if we speculate that they aren't, then the assumption range is too great. In either case however, it's all speculation.


 * As to trust, I do trust the word of the author, I trust the statement. Its just the theory of what can be made up of that statement is filled with a bit too much speculation. With that in mind, I am also thinking of being encyclopedic as I would rather have facts to support a statement rather than speculations. Strong World being Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old is a fact. Him becoming a 18 year old after Strong World is a fact. He being already 18 is not a fact. It is a speculation as there is no definite statement that states he already turned 18.


 * The discussion is not over.Mugiwara Franky 19:22, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well before the discussion begins again, I would like us to get someone who understands Japanese to read the original statement and explain the undertext of each of the words because you are placing undue signifigance on the word adventure which isn't actually there in english and doesn't necessarily apply to the word in Japanese. Bastian964 03:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Whether the original Japanese word means literally adventure or something else is not the case. It is not a translation problem. It is a speculation problem. I maybe placing "undue significance" to the word but you are as well giving "undue significance" to a speculation without full facts.Mugiwara Franky 03:55, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * By "speculation" you mean taking the creator of the franchise at his word. Also by "undue significance" I mean you need to actually look up what adventure means.Bastian964 20:08, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

We don't even know where it took place in the timeline anyway. SeaTerror 20:44, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes we do. We know it is canon. We also know there is only one place in canon it could fit since Brook is on the crew, the crew is still together, and Sengoku is still Fleet Admiral. Thus it has to be between Sabaody and Thriller Bark. Bastian964 21:04, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say: if Oda says Luffy is at the end of his 17th year, then we should take it literally, until/unless he confirms that he was merely being metaphorical. After all, we should trust the author's words 100%, otherwise, we wouldn't be trusting SBS sources. Yatanogarasu 04:48, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Facts
Okay let me just list down the facts of what we know.Mugiwara Franky 09:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Oda said that Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old.
 * 2) He does not say that Luffy will be immediately 18 years old after the events of the movie.
 * 3) He does not say that Luffy will be immediately 18 years old before his next adventure.
 * 4) His line hints that in the near future Luffy will become 18.
 * 5) Luffy has Brook, the crew is together and Sengoku is still Fleet Admiral in the movie so that gives the theory that the movie may have happened between Thriller Bark and Sabody.
 * 6) There has been no indication yet such as a scene or box telling that Luffy has become 18 years old.

Discussion II
Now I know what Oda has said and the facts that are presented, but the fact that Luffy is already 18 is really a speculation. We really do not have anything definite yet that states he turned 18. We can speculate that he turned 18 offscreen during Sabaody but that's just that, a speculation.Mugiwara Franky 09:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * There is also the scenes from Luffy's and Ace's flashback with this and this. The flashback that is introduced says 10 years ago, and Sabo's introbox says 10 years old. Since Ace is the same age as Sabo then and 3 years older than Luffy, the 10 years ago would mean that Luffy was 7 years old at the time. It kinda means that Luffy is still 17 years. If he was 18 by the time he remembered, then the flashback would have said 11 years ago. True, there can be a few days or months that could be rounded off so that it can be 10 years by the time Luffy is 18, but that is speculationMugiwara Franky 09:40, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay points one, two, and three are ridiculous. Saying that it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old means he HAS to turn 18 before the end of his next adventure. And before you say Impel Down wasn't an adventure, look up what adventure means. Here's a link to google's definitions in case you are still feeling lazy. Point 4 is a obvious but incomplete. Point 5 is overly skeptical. That is literally the only point in canon where it could fit and it was agreed upon that Strong World is canon. Point 6 is your most ridiculous point. There doesn't need to be any sort of box or scene saying Luffy is older, we already have the word of the author so another indication would just be redundant. As for your other point, people have different birthdays, think about why that is important and maybe it will come to you. Bastian964 17:06, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * You forgot the author's word. "I will finish the manga within 5 years!" Tipota 21:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * So because Oda made a mistake about a future event, you think we shouldn't trust him on a present event? Plus the whole finish the series in 5 years thing was a real life issue (in other words his publishing company saw where the money was coming from and wanted more of it), this is an in series matter. Also if we don't trust the author's word then we clearly need to get rid of every bit of info from the SBS's. Bastian964 22:52, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Can I request a link to proof of this whole "LAst adventure as 17" business? Its rather confusing to know where its coming from unless you do post it. One-Winged Hawk 21:39, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Never mind... That was tiredness kicking in. One-Winged Hawk 21:41, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Bastian, you are speculating based on stuff that is not definite. I am fully aware what adventure means. However just because Oda says it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old really does not mean that instantly Luffy make 18 after the movie. A person can have a few months before their next birthday happens after their last anything. In that amount of time, people can have things that are similar to their last but are considered different by them or something like that. Besides, you yourself are saying that point 5, when Strong World happens, is skeptical. That's not a good argument to support your Luffy is already 18.

As for your argument about birthdays, I know they have different birthdays which I why I said you could possibly round some days or months so that Luffy is 18 years old and 7 years old 10 years prior. However, that is really over speculation. You are speculating that there has been n amount of time so that 18-10=7 or more precisely (18-n)-10=7.

In case people are not getting the math, here it is:

X=Luffy's age now

F=Years ago when Sabo Flashback happened

L=Luffy's age back then

A=Ace's age back then

S=Sabo age back then

F=10 years ago

S=10 years old

A=S

L=A-3=S-3

L=10-3

L=7 years old

X-F=L

X-10=7

X=17 years old now

Now this is math based on Oda's written words and not speculation. The only way it could be so that X=18 years old now, is that if there was a n amount of time to make (18-n)-10=7. However, we don't even know what n is because we don't know exactly when in Luffy's "adventures" after Strong World he supposedly became 18.

I trust the author's word. However, I do not speculate stuff if he creates a situation that gives a big ?Mugiwara Franky 01:09, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, when do you think we should take Oda's words that Luffy will become 18, if not right after Strong World? Yatanogarasu 01:14, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * We take Oda's word that Luffy is 18 when he tells us directly he is 18 now through a scene or a timeskip. We do not speculate that Luffy is 18 through a message that's not entirely clear.Mugiwara Franky 01:17, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

In case people are wondering, Oda's quote can be found in Vol. 0 and can be found translated by people via forum here or here for starters. The posters translate what Oda has said however the subsequent discussions after the original show that there's not exactly an agreed understanding by all.Mugiwara Franky 01:23, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Bastian964 02:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old was Strong World.
 * 2) Strong World can only fit into the canon timeline between Thriller Bark and Sabaody Archipelago because Brook was on the crew, the crew was together, and Garp and Sengoku still had their position in the marines.
 * 3) Sabaody Archipelago, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, and the war at Marineford were all adventures if you actually read the various definitions of adventure Google gave.
 * 4) Since multiple adventures happened with multiple goals in each adventure (or at the very least one adventure is over depending on your views), Luffy is 18.
 * 5) The problem with you 'math' is you are making the assumption (and thus the speculation) that Ace and Sabo are the same age. All the supposed proof that you gave is "Also Ace, which one of us is the bigger brother? It's a bit weird to have two first-born sons...." Without speculation, all that really tells you is that they are about the same age and Sabo isn't necessarily sure which is older.


 * For the hundreth time, yes Oda said Strong World was Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old but that doesn't necessarily mean he immediately becomes 18 at the end of the movie or become 18 off screen in between the movie and whatever else came after. Oda's quote says something but it isn't exactly that clear. I mean even the guy who was interviewing Oda at the time didn't understand what he meant and Oda didn't explain himself at that time.


 * For my math, I am assuming based on facts. By the line "Also Ace, which one of us is the bigger brother? It's a bit weird to have two first-born sons...." does indeed mean that they are about the same age. The same age means that since Sabo is 10 then Ace is at least 10 give or take some months since we don't know Sabo's birthday. Since Ace is 3 years older than Luffy, as given by his age before he died, that means when Ace was 10 then Luffy was 7. It's abit impossible for it to be any other way with Ace 10 and Luffy 8.


 * Year 1: Ace is born in January 1
 * Year 2: Ace becomes 1 year old in Jan
 * Year 3: Ace becomes 2 years old in Jan
 * Year 4: Ace becomes 3 years old in Jan, Luffy is born months later in May 5
 * Year 5: Ace becomes 4 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 1 year old in May
 * Year 6: Ace becomes 5 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 2 years old in May
 * Year 7: Ace becomes 6 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 3 years old in May
 * Year 8: Ace becomes 7 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 4 years old in May
 * Year 9: Ace becomes 8 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 5 years old in May
 * Year 10: Ace becomes 9 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 6 years old in May
 * Year 11: Ace becomes 10 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 7 years old in May


 * This is a chart of their Luffy and Ace's ages in a gist. Are you seriously saying that during Ace's age as a 10 year old, Luffy became 8 thus justifying the 10 years Oda wrote in the flashback in relation to Luffy's age after Ace's death?Mugiwara Franky 05:31, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to just drop in my two cents. I don't think Luffy is 18 yet. He'll probably become so soon, but until it's officially stated in the manga, I believe he's still 17. When Oda said this was Luffy's last adventure at 17, I interpreted as the whole Whitebeard War as that adventure. (Strong World takes place within that Saga.) It would make sense for him to grow older both metaphorically and physically after all the things he just went through. So, to sum is all up: I think Luffy is still 17. But, he may become 18 after the theorized timeskip we've all been guessing about. --YazzyDream 06:16, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

...Can I just say that I think you guys are taking this way too seriously. I know there are rules and guidelines to keeping the Wiki organized so it's a full fledged encyclopedia of factual information...but come on, people. All of these details, mathematical formulas and arguments are seriously just killing whatever joy there is in even reading the manga and enjoying the series. It's also making my damn head hurt reading through all this crap (I don't understand math, so all that stuff that MF posted up made me dizzy.) I just think you should lighten up, leave the whole situation alone, and wait for further information to be released. You shouldn't be arguing about it, because you senior editors or whatever know how the policy works around here. "No unnecessary edits until further information is released" and all that jazz. Subrosian 06:23, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I will only say that probably we will never see a birthday cake on Thousand Sunny, because it would be useless and this should happen for every crewmember, with the consequence of too much "reading time" lost. I'll continue thinking about this discussion during next days. --Meganoide 06:45, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think there is a definite possibility that Luffy is now 18. When Luffy was first left with Dadan in the flashback, it did not state the current month, so it is unknown when Luffy's birthday happened exactly in relation to the beginning of the flashback storyline. There is a high likelihood that his 8th birthday occured during the part of the flashback before the time skip to Ace's 17th birthday when he started his pirate journey, thus the "10 years ago" part could still hold water for both 17 and 18 year old Luffy. As it's been stated before, this could be and probably is merely speculation, but that's just my take on the matter. Personally, if you ask me, he's probably 18 by now. I agree with Subrosian that we should wait until something more official is released.DancePowderer 14:33, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Luffy now can be 17, but he can be 18 as well. Just write in the infobox "17 or 18". Ruxax 21:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Another idea: write "17 (as of Chapter 27)" or something like that. Ruxax 21:34, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ruxax has a good idea, putting 17-18 works for now. I was just thinking though, couldn't this potentially mean that everyone's ages would go up (ie.Nami would be 19, Franky would be 35, Hancock would be 30, etc.) DancePowderer 22:05, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's all really just based on speculation and not based on something definite. We can't write Luffy is 18 as of Chapter X because we aren't sure of when Chapter X is.


 * Luffy being 8 years when the first part of the Sabo flashback happened is quite impossible due to several things which I've stated above but I guess should be reiterated.


 * Ace and Sabo are stated as being the same age.
 * Sabo was 10 years old back then.
 * Ace is 3 years older than Luffy as evidenced by Oda revealing Ace's age through various sources.
 * Since Ace was 10 years old 10 years ago, then Luffy was 7 years old back then.
 * Since Luffy was 7 years old 10 years ago, then Luffy is 17 years old now.


 * You could say that Luffy may have been 8 years old when the first part of the Sabo flashback happened but that would conflict with other points. Notably, it would conflict with Ace's age. Ace is 3 years older than Luffy no matter how you look at it and with Ace and Sabo being the same age at the 10 back then, then Luffy couldn't have been 8 years old back then.


 * Now you can say I'm just speculating on Ace's age back then was 10 years old and he may have been 11 years so that Luffy's age back then could be 8, however that would really conflict with 2 notable points.


 * First it would conflict with Sabo's age and message. When Sabo left his message to Ace and Luffy, he mentioned it being weird that the brotherly bond they created had two elder brothers being him and Ace. Now it would conflict with Sabo's message if Ace was 11 years old. Sabo was saying it was weird because he was looking at their ages in general. It was weird because Ace and Sabo were of the same age. If Ace was 11 years old then Sabo wouldn't mention it being weird.
 * Second, it would conflict with the 10 years ago. If Ace was 11 years old back 10 years ago, then that would mean that Ace is 21 years old in present time. That is an impossibility due to Akainu's handiwork.


 * Now you could say that Luffy turned 8 during the Sabo flashback however it wouldn't change the fact that he was 7 at the start of the flashback. The start of the flashback stated 10 years ago and that's where we first calculate Luffy's age at. Unless there was a box saying otherwise, it can be justifiably assumed that when Luffy turned 8 it would be 9 years ago and not 10.Mugiwara Franky 00:00, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The compromise of writing 17-18 would be still speculation also as we still wouldn't be sure if Luffy had turned 18 already. As for the ages of other characters, that's really speculating since they all have different birthdays.Mugiwara Franky 00:06, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * This argument is completely ridiculous but I understand where both sides are coming from. Here are my thoughts:

1. The birthdays for the character are made by FANS, not Oda himself. He just goes along with whatever they say, so the birthdays shouldn't be taken too seriously, thus math is useless.

2. We know that Strong World took place between the Thriller Bark and the SA arc. Oda said Strong World will be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old.

3. Since both the SA arc and the ID arc have chapters with the words "adventure" in it, it is safe to assume that Oda considers those two arcs as "adventures". (the two are chapter 497 titled "adventure on the archipelago of dancing soap bubbles", and chapter 526, "adventure in the great prison.")

4. Since you can argue metaphorically that Oda meant it would be as his last adventure as a 17-year old as psychological development, this point is void, since there is no clear definition of how 17 or 18 year olds should act.

All these points point to the conclusion that Luffy is 18. Oathkeeper of oblivion 17:11, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Major problem with the notion is that, though Strong World could only logically have taken place between Thriller Bark And Sabaody, but the situation doesn't completely line up, because Sengoku mentions Shiki during the Impel Down Arc, and no mention is made of his resurfacing. In this situation, we are lead to believe that Shiki, one of the most legendary pirates in the history of the One Piece world, resurfaced after 20 years, attacked Navy HQ, and Nobody in the entire Naval Hierarchy seems the LEAST bit concerned about it? From watching the movie, I didn't get the hint at all that Sengoku was made aware that Luffy beat Shiki, but if he did that raises another question. When Sengoku brought up Shiki AND realized who Luffy was, why not mention "Straw Hat took down Shiki too!" or something? So if the movie is indeed canon, we have to believe one of the following things about it:
 * 1: Sengoku knew Shiki had returned to wreck havoc on the world, he even gave Sengoku a Warning, Yet through the entire Sabaody, Impel Down, and Whitebeard War, and Post War Arcs, he doesn't mention this ONCE even though Shiki himself DOES come up
 * 2: Despite Luffy having taken out such an amazing Threat as Shiki, this gets no mention when the WG realizes that Luffy is in Sabaody, Impel Down, or Marineford? Even though Sengoku made sure to mention a few of the other things Luffy has done?
 * So then we have to ask what exactly did he MEAN by "Last adventure". Was he talking about the movie's placement in the STORYLINE, or was he talking about the time of the Movie's release. (which was in the middle of the War Arc) The idea being that the War would be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, because it was released at around the same time as the Movie. So, is it the movie that's his "Last Adventure" or is it Marineford? The fact that the manga currently appears to be building towards a time-skip seems to lead credence to the latter.
 * I'd say, if there ends up being an honest time-skip, that coupled with Oda's comment would be enough to definitively say Luffy is now "18". (Or 19 if the timeskip turns out to be like 2 yrs, which I think is unlikely)
 * So I'd say; wait just a few chapters until we know where we stand on the topic of a Time-Skip. It's pretty clean if we're getting one, it's happening soonDemonRin 23:49, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ummm hi, sorry to burst your bubble, but Oda specifically states that Strong World in the STORYLINE is Luffy's last adventure as being 17. And there is no need for Sengoku to mention Shiki. He was mentioned once during the ID arc as having broken out 20 years previous, and nothing more is said. This does not prove that Strong World has not taken place. Second, Sengoku would have no need to mention defeating Shiki along with his previous actions, since defeating Shiki is actually helpful to the World Government.

Just because some things are not stated does not necessarily mean they have not happened. Since Sengoku is still FA and Brook the apart of the crew, the only logical explanation is that Strong World takes place between the TB and SA arcs. Also, you should not assume that just because a speculated time skip is going to occur that Oda meant Marineford as the last "adventure." Oathkeeper of oblivion 02:13, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

That's like saying that Zoro is the first mate because many people believe it's an "unsaid fact". SeaTerror 04:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Uum, Hi, sorry to burst your bubbles, but whoever said EVER that movie 10 even IS Part of the "Storyline"? Where was this stated? Did Oda say it? Show me the interview.
 * Movie 3 couldn't have happened because there was never a time when Chopper was on the crew and Nami was the only female (Either Vivi or Robin should have been there) This movie doesn't deserve any special treatment, Until Oda states "By the way, Movie 10 happened in the manga, and here's where" it didn't. It should be treated like every single other movie.
 * Leave it to the fanbase to take one little, extremely vague comment that nobody can truly discern the meaning, and blow it out of proportion.DemonRin 05:55, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

@Oathkeeper, while it's true that the birthdays are made by fans and accepted by Oda, the exact dates are not in question here. Its the ages that's being discussed. As far it can be seen, when it comes to stuff like years ago, Oda appears to have pretty much an idea. So Luffy being 8 years old when Ace and Sabo were 10 is really impossible.

For the interview, it really is indeed vague. After Oda's message, the interviewer asked what he meant and Oda didn't answer. The guy asked Oda directly for an explanation and Oda didn't explain himself. I don't know. Why does everyone remember Oda's quote but not the qoute that came after by the guy interviewing Oda?Mugiwara Franky 10:05, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't really matter if you think there might be discrepancies in the timeline if Luffy is 18, we have the author's word. The interview is more than clear enough, Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old (despite Oda refusing to further clarify that much is completely and totally obvious). Furthermore, we know he has had adventures since then (the chapters are titled as such). Bastian964 17:44, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

"Oda: [previous text omitted] And as far as something that will hold true for both the comic and the anime, this will be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year-old. So this [movie] is something I want you to burn into your memories. Interviewer- Whaaat!? You can't leave me with just that..! Oda: Nope, I can't say anything more than that now."

"This story is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old so watch it over and over again!"
 * There, now anyone who didn't bother to check the links can stop arguing about things that are already stated. Bastian964 17:44, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Demon Rin. Since Strong World is written by Oda himself, it is seen as a canon material. Every other previous movie has not be written by Oda himself; he just provided character designs. Saying that SW is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old is not a vague comment at all.


 * @Mugiwara Franky. I'm pointing out the birthdays because your using math to prove your point. They are made by fans, so I'm saying calculating this logically won't prove anything. Bastian is right. We have the author's word for it, so it doesn't matter if there are discrepancies. Oathkeeper of oblivion 18:44, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, Oda himself has said that it is canonical for both the manga and anime (see the quotes I gave earlier).Bastian964 19:11, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Guys, your discussion reached a deadlock long ago. If you for some reasons don't like variant "17 or 18" then write "17 (as of Chapter 27" or "17 (during "Strong World" events)". (Chapter 27 is where SBS question about age was asked). This will be Ruxax 21:34, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * true, regardless of whose reasonings will turn out true or false
 * unambigous.


 * Actually we were at a deadlock until Oathkeeper pointed out the chapters with the word adventure in the title and I quoted Oda's full statement. Now we are just waiting for people to calm down from the argument and maybe comeback in a day or two. Bastian964 21:48, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

@Oathkeeper The exact dates such as Jan. 1 are not being discussed, it is the ages such as 10 years old. Ages. The birthdays maybe made by fans but the ages are decided by Oda himself. What I did was calculate ages in relation to years. I based my math on what Oda has stated. I based Luffy being 3 years younger than Ace and Sabo on stuff that he has stated. Are you guys seriously going to disregard the fact that Oda made Ace and Sabo 3 years older than Luffy. 3 years older is always 3 years older. You really cannot say that Luffy was 8 years when Ace and Sabo were 10 so that you can justify the 10 years ago in relation to Luffy's current age when he remembered Sabo.

@Bastian You keep going back to the interview and saying it is clear. Well, guess what it is clear to you but it is not clear to everybody. The "Interviewer- Whaaat!? You can't leave me with just that..! Oda: Nope, I can't say anything more than that now." shows that nothing was easily understood. The interviewer does not understand what Oda says. Are you guys seriously saying that you understand a message that not even a guy who was talking to Oda directly in the face could understand.

You guys keep saying to trust in the author's word. Yet you disregard other things that he has stated or not stated. You disregard the Sabo flashback and the math that can be applied to reveal Luffy's age. You say birthdays like Jan. 1 are fan based and say that Luffy could be 8 when Ace was 10 even when he accepts the fan suggestions and when he says Ace is 20 and Luffy is 17. You disregard the fact that he does not say directly when Luffy becomes 18. You just say because this chapter title says "adventure" then Luffy must have speculatively turned 18 offscreen without solid proof to back it up.

I do not doubt that Strong World is made canon by Oda's hand via making the movie and Chapter 0. However, there are some discrepancies that still make people wonder when it is placed in the story. One is throughout the movie, Zoro was not writhing in pain as an aftereffect of Kuma extracting Luffy's pain. If I remember correctly, Zoro still suffered the pain in certain parts of Sabaody. If so, why is he going around not showing any signs of pain if Strong world is indeed after Thriller Bark. Then there's the whole Sengoku thing. It's constantly pointed out that he is still a Fleet Admiral but is that really certain. Apart from the uniform and someone reporting to him, nobody calls him a Fleet Admiral directly. Also from what I remember from the meeting with Kong, Sengoku resigned his post but was allowed to keep his title and still be a part of the Marines.Mugiwara Franky 00:35, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Mugiwara Franky. I understand that Oda decides the ages and it does say "10 years previous", but this argument boils down to the month. Oda wouldn't put "10 years and 3 months ago", cause that sounds awkward. From my comprehension, the interviewer was most likely stating that Oda did not give enough information, not that he didn't understand it. Oda's statement was pretty much black and white. Yes, I am disregarding the math since from the SBS, Oda does not make the birthdays himself. Mathematically, yes, Luffy is still 17, but you still don't know when from 10 years ago. 10 years and a day? 10 years and a month? And yes, Zoro did not show signs of injury from the TB arc, but if I do remember, Dr Indigo was a much easier fight than the Pacifista one. Also, if Sengoku wasn't FA anymore, its likely one of the other admirals that had replaced him would've appeared, since Shiki resurfacing is a pretty big deal. Oathkeeper of oblivion 02:05, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Even when it boils down to a month, it still can't be that Luffy was 8 when the flashback happened. Ace and Sabo were 10 back then. When it comes to ages, people who are 3 years apart will always stay 3 years apart. If you are gonna consider months, then will have to consider the birthdays of Jan. 1 and May 5. Disregarding the birthdays by saying they are fan based, and saying that Luffy may have turned 8 by a month or so when Ace was 10 at the same time can't mesh with each other. Both rely on months and are supposed to support each other. If you consider by years, they say that Luffy was 7 when Ace was 10 and Luffy would be 8 when Ace was 11. If you consider by months, they say that Ace was 10 years old before Luffy was 7 years old and will be 11 years old before Luffy can be 8.


 * By your comprehension is the thing, it's your comprehension not necessarily everybody's. To you it seems very clear. You see a guy saying something on behalf of Oda. To others however like me and DemonRin, we see a guy who isn't sure what Oda was talking about.


 * In Strong World, it was not just Indigo Zoro was fighting. First there was that week or so he and Chopper spent being lost in that ice area fighting reindeer dinosaurs and such all because of Zoro's sense of direction. Then there was Shiki that Zoro fought alongside Luffy, Chopper, Sanji, and Usopp. Then there were those various pirate captains that were present when the Straw Hats burst in Shiki's meeting. Zoro wasn't seem fighting anyone specifically in that chaos but with what was going on, it would have been impossible to focus solely on Indigo without fighting anybody else. Then there were all those animals that came in. The Straw Hats practically had to contend with them alongside Shiki's forces. Through all of that, wouldn't at least a wound have opened at some point in time.


 * For the admiral that replaced not appearing especially in such a big case, I can say that it would be like the case with Kong. The whole Whitebeard war was certainly very big however Kong didn't appear until after the war. Linking that however would be speculation based on my comprehension.Mugiwara Franky 02:45, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, disregarding the math, we have Oda's word for it. He says specifically that Strong World is his last adventure as an 17 year old. What are we arguing about? He said it, we know when it takes place logically, and we know that the SA and ID arcs are adventures. You can point out discrepancies and mistakes everywhere, but we have the author's word for it. And from the interviewers words "''Interviewer- Whaaat!? You can't leave me with just that..!", it is seen that he wanted more information, not that he didn't understand it. Because if he didn't understand it, he would not have been able to write down the interview anyways (unless the interview was posted as a video instead of an article). ''

Anyways Zoro's wounds took affect after he suffered alot of damage from the Pacifista fight. Plus PX-4 was way stronger than any of the enemies, that took all the Straw Hats to defeat and depleted them of their energy. Oathkeeper of oblivion 03:33, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, Seeing Oda's actual quote, I have to bring this up to people.
 * Let's look at Oda's quote again
 * "Oda: [previous text omitted] And as far as something that will hold true for both the comic and the anime, this will be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year-old. So this [movie] is something I want you to burn into your memories. Interviewer- Whaaat!? You can't leave me with just that..! Oda: Nope, I can't say anything more than that now."
 * He says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING within this quote that mentions whether or not the movie marks Luffy's "Last Adventure as a 17 Year old" CANONICALLY! He never says "Yes, after the events of Strong World, Luffy turns 18" ALL He's saying is that Strong World is just the last "Adventure" as an 18 year old.
 * It's basically like this. Which Star Wars movie is the "last" Star Wars Movie? CANONICALLY, it's Return of the Jedi, Production-wise, it's Revenge of The Sith. You could, legitimately, call either of those the "Last" Star Wars movie. The actual thing that makes the difference is by what criteria you use the term "Last".
 * Now, by "Last", does that mean Strong World was the last adventure CANONICALLY? Or was it the last that the audience would see from THEIR Perspective? Because the audience was seeing Strong World AFTER the events of Marineford began.
 * Look at Oda's quote. I haven't seen the Japanese, but This looks like Greg's original translation of the quote, and I trust him. Oda speaks in the future tense several times. "this will be Luffy's last adventure..." this is "something that will hold true for both the comic and anime..."
 * Marineford had started already in the manga by the time the movie hit. By the "Movie 10 HAD to take place just after Thriller Bark" logic, Luffy was ALREADY 18 during the events of Sabaody, Amazon Lilly, Impel-Down, AND Marineford. Why would Oda be speaking in the future tense if Luffy was ALREADY 18 in the series proper?! The simple answer is that we don't know what criteria Oda was basing the notion of the "Last" on. Canon, or Production. If Canon, then he was saying Luffy was indeed 18 starting with Sabaody. If Production, he was saying that Marineford marks the last (Manga) adventure in which Luffy is 17. Until we know which of those two definitions of the term "Last" to apply to the situation, we logically CANNOT make a call on this at all.
 * Oda was CLEARLY teasing something, that's EXTREMELY Obvious. "Interviewer- Whaaat!? You can't leave me with just that..! Oda: Nope, I can't say anything more than that now."
 * The fact that Luffy lost so bad in Marineford and now has to "Grow Up" emotionally Lines up with this tease perfectly. Including the fact that we don't know if it's physical age, or whether he meant it metaphorically (my money is on the latter) we simply do not know enough about the cryptic comment to be able to tell, as of yet.DemonRin 04:26, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Oathkeeper We do have Oda's word that Strong World is Luffy's last adventure and all those other stuff, however are we seriously going to take Oda's word in argument against another statement of his? He wrote 10 years ago, Sabo is 10 years old, and all that in the flashback. It's written in the manga itself, therefore it's as good as an actual statement. Unless he made a major mathematical mistake somewhere, we can't assume that his word about the movie takes precedence over whatever other information he gives especially when the math proves otherwise. I mean he says Luffy is 18 at this time and then he introduces flashback with 10 years ago and Ace with the same age as a 10 year old Sabo. That doesn't make sense. It's as if Oda doesn't know his own story and just winging it. No, that can't be the case.


 * Assuming based on something Oda has said and disputing whatever other information he gives in order to support the first assumption, is not the way. What we should do is take both info together not against each other. He says that Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old and that's that. He shows us a flashback with a 7 year old Luffy and states that it was 10 years ago, we should accept that Oda must have been writing with Luffy being 17 at the time.


 * For the interviewer, it can be seen that he wanted more information but only because logically he didn't understand what Oda meant. In most interviews, even if the guy doesn't comment on an important question related to the interview, him not commenting is usually also noted down. Interviewers are not the interviwees. When they ask a question, they have to note it down regardless if they understand it or not. If they only note down what they understood, then it would be an incomplete report.


 * For Zoro, I wouldn't call Shiki weaker than a regular Pacifista. Zoro fought in a team battle against the guy and what happened? Shiki crushed them with the very earth they were standing on. Don't tell me that massive physical wounds only open in certain events similar to the ones that cause it. If that were the case, Zoro wouldn't have been writhing in pain during Arlong Park as an effect of Mihawk's attack.Mugiwara Franky 04:34, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well then, I guess we should look at all the possibilities.

1. Oda made a mathematical error. 2. Sabo is younger than Ace. 3. Strong World takes place after the Whitebeard War.

Since I'm guessing 1 is probably not the case since Oda would most likely know his own story. 3 is logically correct (and maybe the fight with Shiki added onto the strain of Zoro during his fight with the Pacifista.) So 2 is most likely the answer. It is never actually stated how old Ace or Luffy were is it? And the whole "big brother" thing can just mean that Ace and Sabo's birthdays are months apart. Oathkeeper of oblivion 06:20, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * So then, are we ignoring the point I made in my last post?!DemonRin 07:55, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

@Oathkeeper Saying that 2 is correct a gross understatement. Saying that 3 is logically correct doesn't make it wrong. For how old Ace and Luffy at the Sabo flashback, do you really want to ignore some points just to fit it into your theory. If Ace was 11 years and Luffy was 8 years old 10 years old back then, it would not only mean that Luffy had turned 18 yearsold by this time, it would also mean that Ace had turned 21 years old. Ace died at 20 or are we going to theorize also that Ace had turned 21 before he died.

For the Sabo thing, you cannot justify it saying by months due to 1 important thing. We don't know Sabo's birthday. Oda has not yet given or accepted any birthday for Sabo yet. Sabo was stated as being 10 years old at the time. It's made clear from time to time from various statements that Sabo was the same age as Ace then. Stop twisting what Oda gives us through theories in order to prove your theory.

Also you are indeed ignoring the points DemonRin are making. Its not just me you are arguing with.Mugiwara Franky 09:03, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

The Protection
From Wikia's protection guidelines: "Administrators should not protect or unprotect a page to further their own position in a content dispute." I must say this is a shocking change considering earlier you were stopping the changing of this page from the disputed edit until the discussion was done. Bastian964 18:08, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

It took you 2 days to make a comment about the locking of the template? SeaTerror 21:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you guys shouldn't have pestered the guy you were arguing with to lock the page. The duties of an Admin and an regular editor should indeed be separate however it can only go so far.Mugiwara Franky 00:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)