Talk:Vergo

abilities and power
hi. about welgo's power, what we've seen in this chapter (672) isn't a new or strange or unique "ability to quickly change the density of an object into something much harder", but is simply the Busoshoku Haki, nothing more :)

_a.p.

Enchanting tale old chap. Except you're wrong.

As long as it isn't said what it is it's just an unnamed ability.

10:34, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Pics or it didn't happen. SeaTerror 10:50, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

As far we know, Busoshoku Haki has that effect only on Luffy, due to the vulcanization of the rubber, so it's unlike in my opinion that's an Haki effect too, but since we don't know let's say it's just an unnamed ability.

? maybe i don't remember well, but i think that the 'vulcanization theory' of Gomu gomu + haki that we have is not actually confirmed in the manga. and i definitely can't see how some of you can say that Welgo's ability change the material of his weapon, when the only confirmed thing is that it becames 'black' and harder :) . a.p. 151.76.176.1 13:09, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

It isn't Haki. Haki only effects the body itself and not objects. SeaTerror 10:57, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * The Kuja and Shanks, as well as Rayleigh explicitly saying Haki can be imbued into weapons suggests otherwise. Zodiaque 11:05, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's just imbuing them with extra power though, not changing it into another material entirely. Haki isn't alchemy. 11:29, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

While I will admit that Haki was my first impression as well, it's better to wait and see since we don't know if the koka ability can only be used by Luffy due to his rubber body. 16:17, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I am thinking he could possibly be able to turn objects and himself into a metal of some kind. 09:47, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking something like the poster above me, but I would alternatively suggest that perhaps his power might be more closely related to changing the density of objects, in that by changing the density of the air in Law's lungs (or other fluids in his body, perhaps) he could weaken him and make him gasp for breath as was shown, without any visible explanation. Albeit, there are two provisos to be added here, first, this wouldn't explain the change in color of the bamboo, although it could definitely explain its increase in destructive capcity via the material being more dense, and second, this power might be viewed as broken (overly powered) and thus not feasible. What do you guys think? 165.123.211.133 01:52, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

When you say law coughs up blood in the page, where is the proof? it's like assuming what's around Vergo's weapon was blood. It's asphalt, a black, sticky and viscous substance which explains how 1/he hardened his weapon, 2/ the black bits falling from his weapon when he hit law, 3/ the black liquid that seems like blood falling from law's head. And btw, luffy turns black because of vulcanisation, you can't expect oda to explain everything41.250.218.37 10:40, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Phrasing of Abilities and Powers
Yes, we know that the his ability is currently speculative. But what I think is that this phrase is also rather speculative and doesn't belong on the page:

"So far, he has been seen using an ability similar to Luffy's Busoshoku: Koka in which he can harden his body parts, though, whether this is the result of haki or some other ability is yet to be known."

I feel like noting the similarity makes the editing easier, as then random AWCs don't feel the need to add in that it's definitely Haki. BUT I think having the relationship on there is noting a similarity that may not be correct. 00:10, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

I am getting a little irritated with this. The entire fanbase agrees that this is haki. It looks like haki. It hits like haki. VAs can use haki. How is it not haki? Regardless, I'm not arguing that it is haki. The argument is purely regarding the similarity. The similarity exists and there is too much evidence to suggest that it is haki.

Therefore, I added that line, which notes the excessive similarity to Luffy's haki move (which this wiki makes it sound like Luffy invented haki hardening but that's for another discussion). It is not speculation, it is observation. If you disagree, then please get Oda to make some rush edits for the next volume. Nexus32 (talk) 02:31, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

I beg to differ. If you look at the above section, when someone speculated the same thing, most of the users following that do not think that. So the entire fanbase is wrong.

No matter how do you look at that, that is a speculation. The next sentence only make even more speculation-soundy like. 02:37, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * You keep saying it is speculation but you're not saying what exactly is speculative of that line. Nexus32 (talk) 02:39, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * "whether this is the result of haki or some other ability is yet to be known." Yup, sounding VERY speculative-thingy to me~ 03:15, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, Jade mentioned the exact phrase I would have. Also, see this. Mentioning the similarities between the two ideas creates the idea that Vergo's power is Haki. And this whole wikia doesn't give a damn what the fans think, until an official source states it's Haki, we can't even hint that it is on our pages. 03:34, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * "So far, he has been seen using an ability" - fact
 * "similar to Luffy's Busoshoku: Koka in which he can harden his body parts" - fact
 * "whether this is the result of haki or some other ability is yet to be known" - fact


 * I question whether the two of you know what speculation is. Luffy's Busoshoku: Koka description says his ability is very similar to vulcanized rubber but that has not been confirmed yet. Apoo's ability is said to be a DF but that has not been confirmed. This is not speculation but the attack imposed here lacks large inconsistency and misunderstanding of the documentation on this wiki. Vergo's ability is similar to Luffy's haki hardening, that's end of discussion. If you can prove (which you won't) that it is not similar to Luffy's haki hardening, then I'd like to see your evidence. However, right now, both of your arguments are not:
 * 1) Not being specific on your point: you say it's speculative but after repeatedly questioning you, there has been no specific answer as to what is speculative and no efforts have been made to fix the line
 * 2) Not addressing the problem: which is the large similarity between both attacks that has not been documented


 * If this is not going to specifically be addressed like adults, I'll simply revert the change.
 * Nexus32 (talk) 21:17, October 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with Nexus, I don't think it's wrong to say that it resembles Luffy's haki (it helps to provide an image of what is going on). As long as we don't state that this hardening is haki, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. 22:22, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

Possible Aid?
is it just me or this guy might help the straw hats? 94.156.160.107 11:52, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

For once I agree with an AWC 09:46, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see anything that Welgo has done or said that would suggest that he would help them.79.136.16.219 14:08, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yeaaah, now I'm definitely positive he won't help them in any way whatsoever.81.170.200.236 11:46, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Object on the face
I think it is obvious it is a bandage. Just like the coat, it is striped but not to his whole. We should name it as it is, a bandage. LordRayleigh 11:55, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

From a distance it does, however up close (as can be seen above and behind Welgo in the image) it more resembles half eaten meat. There isn't even anything connecting it to his face like a regular bandage would. 12:17, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I first though it was a half-eaten steak but it could look like a steak because it has crossed stripes. That would make more sense to be just some eccentric clothing style - a part striped and another blank - like Inazuma's own eccentric clothing style, and not in plus a man with a steak on his face. I just see the stripes as a style of Wengo printed on part of his wearing - the unknown object and the coat are both stripes and not to their whole. Thus the object would be a sticky bandage and not a sticky half-eaten steak. By the way, there isn't any of bite to me on the object : we don't see toothprint. Plus, if it's a steak, it means he removed part of the half-eaten steak's stripes because a steak would have to be fully striped. That would necessarily requite devil fruit powers to whiten a steak.LordRayleigh 12:54, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

i don't really want to butt in out of no where but that guy suffers from the old joke of food on the face just that is sligtly exagerated so he has a steak on his face men we know is food come on!

To be honest, to me it looks like meat too FirePit 14:11, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you all that it is some kind of meat but until Oda confirms it to be whatever it is, we should just call it a patch of some kind for now.79.136.16.219 14:19, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Looks like a chicken breast... Cheese Lord 14:25, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

someone edit it, it is grilled steak

As we expected, it is meat, hamburger in this case.81.170.200.236 11:48, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Welgo or Wengo?
I see that some people called him "Vengo". Does it matter?76.97.147.177 14:50, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Name
I think Velgo is better than Welgo for his name. If Welgo we have to pronounce his name in German. --Klobis 13:17, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Mangastream used Virgo, wouldn't it be a plausible romanization?

I agree with sff9,i think the mangastream translations can be trusted more then mangareaders,therefore we should think that welgo is actually a romanization for the name virgo. User:X-RAPTOR 14:31, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Virgo is ヴァルゴ. He is ヴェルゴ. --Klobis 15:39, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I should be changed to Virgo since mangastream is usually more accurate. 98.164.70.25 16:09, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Klobis on this one. Velgo, from the information we have, seems to make more sense, though my gut is telling me Virgo. 16:13, June 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Virgo is actually a girl's name, so it's not logical seeing that he is a male. 15:23, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

So Velgo it is, for now at least.


 * Just my two cents: If it would be pronounced German, it's the company's name WERGO - it's written the same way as transliteration as this character.
 * But the name ヴェルゴ could also be written - and that would actually fit to what we see him doing to Law - as Vergo. vergo is the Latin word for bend.
 * Nevermind though - let's keep it this way until Oda gives us something official. Maybe he's gonna troll us all next chapter ... ^^ -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 13:22, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Just found this little gem: Stephen, the official translator for Shonen Jump Alpha has confirmed that his name is, in fact Vergo, based on an advance copy of Chapter 673 he received. Feel free to wait until the chapter comes out to transfer it if you want, but it appears we're getting an official confirmation this week. Zodiaque 11:35, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed for Vergo http://images.4chan.org/a/src/1341390012334.png 67.183.53.142 08:22, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Haki?
Isn't his attack on law with the bamboo stick just him using Busoshoku haki. It seems very similar to how Luffy using Busoshoku haki is drawn and seems to have the same effect, making the bamboo stick harder.Skippidy-Bops 16:22, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you. Though I definitely think he has a DF power, his attack with the pole was a haki attack IMO. If you take into account that all vice admirals have haki. The whole thing with luffy's rubber turning black is a bit up in the air, and the whole 'vulcanisation' issue seems to originate more from fan speculation than facts indicated by oda. The anime hasn't shown luffy turning black for any of his gear second moves. If you look closely in the fight between law and vice admiral smoker he shoots out smoke with black coloured fists at one point, this could just be the way in which Oda is telling us that haki is being used. I think we will see Vergo sporting some kind of power that has something to do with that patty stuck to his cheeck. In the flash back where the citizen remembers Vergo's face you can also see what looks like chips stuck to his face, or it might just be one of those crazy One Piece personality quirks. Only time will tell.

straining?
in the conversation with Law, he said that If Law had killed him, Law would have died, as well as mockingly "Did you think he didn't know?" saying that adults will allways find law's secrets and so forth. The implication I got wasn't that Welgo was causing the strain, but that Law had been poisoned by Caesar instead. The fact that Caesar knew Law had turned on the Yeti Cool brothers, and didn't seem to care, also supports this. In which case, the strain by presence thing is just a misconception.13th madman 13:21, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

You misinterpreted. Velgo said that if Law tried to take action against him, he would be dead already. By that he meant if Law had somehow attacked him then and there. 19:12, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Can't really argue with that. But it still feels like Caesar's doing not Velgo's13th madman 20:54, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Caesar's poison gas works instantly so it couldn't have been him, Law didn't even encounter him when he sneaked around FirePit 00:25, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

In my honest opinion, Velgo's power probably isn't haki, because really, Silvers Rayleigh is EXTREMELY POWERFUL and Law wasn't even knocked down with Rayleigh's haki, and that was two years ago, imagine how powerful Law is now, it'd not really make sense with Velgo being able to use haki to bring Law down to his knees, it may be some devil fruit power perhaps21:13, July 2, 2012 (UTC)Thisishabushness

And people were calling me an idiot for saying he was part of the Marines, oh and look here he's a vice admiral. 10:06, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

who put him in the polearm wielders? a flute isnt a polearm, it is a musical instrumentAntonisgabrielides 10:59, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Marine talking with Momonga
A possible Vergo 2 years ago at Impel Down with Momonga : http://images.4chan.org/a/src/1341397250725.jpg

86.74.0.93 18:32, July 4, 2012 (UTC) Doflamingo

This is the picture you're looking for, but the theory's been shot down on the basis that Ch 673 showed him 3 years ago with his distinctive facial hair, which the Marine two years ago doesn't have. Zodiaque 18:42, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

That was the same exact image. SeaTerror 20:46, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wait...
I thought that Vergo was Doflamingo? He's actually his subordinate?Black Ronin8 (talk) 08:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. They are entirely different people. 08:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Vergo's full name
Is "Kichiku" an epithet or his actual name? Reason I ask is because 1) I looked at mangastream's title (Marine Base Captain of G5 'Kichiku Vergo') for the chapter and it seemed really convincing for a first name so I went ahead and changed it and 2) upon looking at Chapter 680 on wikia, it is translated to "Demon Bamboo".

If it's not his first name, go ahead and revert the edits and apologies in advance for doing so. Nexus32 (talk) 21:03, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

"Kichiku" is a Japanese word meaning something like "brute." The title of the most recent chapter is "Kichiku no Vergo," or "Vergo the Brute." Kichiku is not part of his name and will not be anything more than an epithet at best.

Tekkai User?
Everyone seems to creating these theories about Vergo having some "density controlling" power, but wouldn’t a much simpler explanation be that he knows how to use tekkai? I mean he has already shown the ability to use shigan so we know he has access to rokushiki techniques. And in the latest chapter Sanji comments that Vergo's a "Mass of Iron". That’s literally what "Tekkai" translates into. He's even blocked swords and kicks the same way other tekkai users have in the past. How he hardened his bamboo stick may still be up for debate, but him hardeneing his body seems to have already been explained.

72.196.196.54 19:13, September 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * He already used "shigan" so it's probable, but it may be a part of his abilities (a fruit or something). Khaliszt (talk) 19:17, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Sanji is speculating about Vergo's ability, so until we hear it form Vergo's mouth, we don't know what it is. Sanji is only noting the similarity between Vergo's technique and Tekkai based on his own fighting experience. Tekkai is likely, but unconfirmed. 19:25, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

His epithet has to do with bamboo, which if you've never seen can be incredibly hard, almost as hard as iron. Play the waiting game and we'll learn what his abilities entail. That stuff is always explained during fights like this. 20:44, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

It's Tekkai c'mon.. And a katana(Tashigi's) can easily cut a bamboo, right.?

No, it's not. His epithet and hardening ability (the stick from his first appearance) should more than explain how it's not undoubtedly tekkai. 15:27, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Armament Haki deflects blows and negates Devil Fruit abilities. It does not make one take less damage from a blow that connects. That is Tekkai, i.e. "iron mass", which is what Sanji describes it as. Vergo is shown to display other forms of Rokushiki. Just because it didn't come out of Vergo's mouth doesn't change the fact that the evidence is clear as day that it's what's at play. The Pope 05:16, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Where are you even getting the idea that Armament can only deflect blows? Have you not seen the blackening type of haki? 02:52, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

Color of Infobox?
Should the color of his infobox really be Doflamingo's? It was never actually stated if Doflamingo even has an organization to begin with, it could just be a bunch of people with him. Even then, who's to say Vergo isn't just a partner? Even if he was, he's still a Vice Admiral of the Marines. So which comes first? The organization or the Marines? 08:06, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

He's a mole in the Marines, his primary allegiance is with Doflamingo (he was explicitly stated to be his subordinate). Associating him with the Marines first would be like associating Vivi with Baroque Works first. 08:33, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

I see your point, though the difference between Vergo having Marine colors and Vivi having BW colors is that Vivi is no longer a member of BW, while Vergo is still a marine. 08:39, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Soru
look at this. It looks like he used Soru, shouldn't we add this to his Powers and Abilities? someone already tries to add but it got deleted. 92.77.22.24 00:37, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

That could just be Law's heart disappearing. It's hard to tell, though. He probably can use Soru, so it's best just to wait for a better confirmation. 00:45, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Young Vergo
Is that young Vergo right behind Z on the 691 cover?

AvarusTyrannus (talk) 03:30, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sure looks like it, judging by the facial hair. 03:32, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

The Chapter 691 page includes him as a featured character, but his own page doesn't have his face.AvarusTyrannus (talk) 03:39, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Dead
Vergo was trapped in a room that was blown up, and Law's quote confirms he was in the blast radius. There is no indication he escaped, and plenty to suggest he didn't

. Why hasn't he been counted as deceased?13th madman (talk) 20:17, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you, but I still think we should wait on it. Since we don't have a body, there's room for error. 20:32, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Because explosions don't kill people in OP.

20:53, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I hate to do this, but...Pell. Also, let's just wait until we see the place in smithereens beyond recognition and/or a body or remains. 21:02, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

We don't have a body for Monet, just her coughing blood and collapsing, which has only one case of actual fatality in at least five instances in the manga so far. If you're calling her dead, then extend the same to Vergo, surely. It is confirmed Monet's heart got stabbed and she felt it. It is also confirmed the room Vergo was in was completely destroyed, and he was still in there. Same logic applies.13th madman (talk) 22:15, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

With Monet we actually have a visual confirmation. With Vergo we only have an explosion. He can go in the presumed deceased category until we learn more, but there's still too much room for error to put him in the dead category. 23:03, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I know you're all probably tired of these kind of conversations, but is there any way you can add a banner or something on some articles that specifies the details of their alive status are unknown (or at least, that everything points to them being dead without totally assuming so)? I know this wiki is taken by many as a reliable source, so, as a humble random user of it, I must say these sort of assertions leave me confused. It seems like the only confirmation of someone's death is having a grave and people accepting them as dead years after, so I think that assuming Monet is dead for coughing up blood and being stabbed while Vergo survived an explosion he couldn't possibly escape from is rather illogical. I know it seemed like everything in the scene pointed towards Monet dying, but the same applies to Pell, Pagaya, and Vergo. We've had some characters survive seemingly deadly stabs before. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2310-10/one-piece/chapter-203.html

Again, sorry for reviving the topic, but with deaths being controversial topics in OP, and this being taken as a reliable source, I think the specification must be done in both cases. 190.47.205.207 00:23, January 26, 2013 (UTC)A Fan Of This Wiki

That's why he's in the "presumed decesaed" category. We don't KNOW he's dead. 00:27, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Then, can it be made more explicit? Monet has her article written in past tense and went to the dead category while Vergo doesn't have anything that indicates he might not be alive. If you'll go thinking a stab can suddenly kill a character in the present timeline, then the same should go for explosions. 190.47.205.207 17:14, January 26, 2013 (UTC)Same dude.

Fine, show us any part of his charred remains, and we'll call him dead. Until then, stop complaining. 18:33, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sheesh, one is only asking for the characters to get the same treatment and everyone gets hostile. I didn't know visual confirmation was necessary since a good chunk of the deceased characters don't actually have that (Sabo, Olvia, Clover, Tom, etc). But well, it's your site. Do as you please. But if you're open to critiques, let me tell you this makes you look as a really biased and unreliable source. Sorry for wasting your time.190.110.152.225 02:30, January 30, 2013 (UTC)Same dude.

The point is that we have no idea how big the explosion actually is, or if maybe he somehow escaped. Calling him completely dead would be biased, but leaving it in present tense due to us not being too sure is perfectly fine. Monet was stabbed in the heart and coughed up blood, that is why she is marked dead. 02:38, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Pell, Bon Kurei, Brownbeard, Kinemon. SeaTerror (talk) 02:52, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Dude. Seriously. She's a harpy woman who can turn herself into snow and had her heart trapped in a floating cube a mile away from her body. By "harpy" the sentence no longer made sense in the real world. Luffy and Zoro have all received lethal wounds they have survived from - and I think they have coughed enough blood to fill a small pool. And don't even get me started on Whitebeard. You know, even Oda acknowledges surviving is illogical - he didn't even bother to explain how Pell and Pagaya survived. ALL of the secondary character deaths in One Piece have had a reason - to explain traumas that provide character development. WB's is the only exception and it was used to mark a before and after in the OP world. And Monet died by accident just like that?

With Vergo and the Yeti Brothers you just wrote there was an explosion and that they were outside when Smiley exploded, further details unknown. Can't the same be done with Monet? It's not like you're omitting information, you're just writing what the manga showed.

With Vergo, there was simply an explosion. With Monet, she was stabbed in the heart, but the main difference with her we have a BODY. Find Vergo's charred remains and we'll call him dead. Unil then, he's presumed. End of story. 22:44, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

You also had a "body" for Kinemon and Brownbeard. SeaTerror (talk) 23:34, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

That body could've very well fainted, it's not like she was beheaded. You're assuming she's dead and showing it as a fact, when in reality people survive stabs to the heart more often than you'd imagine (google it). If it's possible in the real world then it's more than just possible in the One Piece universe - and this is proven by that Robin scene above. Actually, there may be even more scenes I don't remember atm. 190.110.152.140 06:45, February 2, 2013 (UTC)That Dude

The moment you start comparing One Piece to the real world is the moment all arguments fly out the window, because One Piece isn't the real world, it has its own standards. We know Monet was stabbed in the heart and she then fell over after coughing up blood, with no one around to help her. Caesar stabbed it with the intent to kill, just not her, but since he thought he was killing Smoker there is no reason for him to hold back. With the surrounding circumstances taken into account, Monet should be dead and treated as such. With Vergo, all we know is there was an explosion. We need to see either his remains, or for someone to confirm him as dead through other means. Treat cases of death individually, and not collectively, and things will be much easier for everyone. 22:40, February 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed. With Monet, we saw the killing blow. This is not the case with Vergo. 22:44, February 2, 2013 (UTC)