Talk:Voice of All Things

Needed?
Well, this should have been discussed before the page was made. Do we need it or not?

11:45, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

First of all, I think it is needed because it's a power that certain people have so I don't see the difference between this and haki. Furthermore, it has relation to the Straw Hats (Luffy in particular), Gol D. Roger, the poneglyph and Poseidon (and as a result the Great Kingdom), the Kozuki clan, and Three-Eye Tribe so way not?

Secondly, for future reference, where should it have be discussed beforehand? Rhavkin (talk) 12:37, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

To be honest I don't think we should keep this article at the moment: In conclusion, beside having the wrong title, the article is highly speculative.
 * "The Voice of All Things" is not the name of the power, rather what the power allow to hear, therefore the power itself has no name.
 * Although possible, the ability to "hear" sea kings, zunisha or read the poneglyphs may not be necessary the same thing. If that was true, Luffy should also be able to read poneglyphs but he cannot. Thus saying all these things are the same power is a speculation.
 * The reference about chouchou is way too far fetched. Luffy just deduces what happened, he doesn't talk with the dog.

"Secondly, for future reference, where should it have be discussed beforehand?" - you can just create the talk page, even if there isn't the page itself.

It's speculative that it's the same ability. There are similarities, but they're not 100% the same. And we have forum pages for a reason.

13:49, January 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * The name can be changed and we can add the Conjectural Name Template.
 * The connection is Roger:
 * Rayleigh confirmed he had it.
 * The sea kings confirmed Luffy has it aswell, and that Shirahoshi has an additional ability.
 * Otohime and Neptune confirmed Poseidon had it.
 * Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, and Kin'emon confirmed Momonosuke and Oden could hear a voice from the whale tree.
 * Both Luffy and Momonosuke ware the only ones on Zou able to hear Zunisha.
 * Big Mom confirmed that Roger used it to understand the poneglyphs.
 * Luffy might have but can't control it, like haki initially so maybe that's way he can't read them.
 * http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/13/18 and http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/13/19 is a clearer use of this ability, but stil...
 * Thanks, I did not knew that, so I asked. There is no need to get upset. Rhavkin (talk) 13:51, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

Our knowledge of the ability is still way too vague to justify making a page for it. Also, Rhavkin, a lot of the points in your list are speculative at best. We can't make even a good startup article with the info we have. I say we delete it, again. 14:13, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

What's speculative about what i wrote? and lack of information has never stopped this wiki before, that's why we have the Stub Template. Rhavkin (talk) 14:17, January 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * Of course we can change the name of an article, the point is that there is not known name for this ability yet. The article itself start with The ability to hear "The Voice of All Things" - the subject of the article is what "the ability" stands for, "The Voice of All Things" is the object of said ability. It's like calling Doru Doru no Mi "Wax" because the ability allows the production of wax.
 * It's still a speculation that the article presents as a confirmed fact. You cannot use transitivity on these examples, otherwise saying that "Poseidon has this power because Luffy also can understand sea kings" is not different then saying "Nico Robin has this power because she can read poneglyphs like Roger could". And don't bring up that rayleigh said roger could not read the poneglyphs, it's just an example to show that the fact two people can achieve the same result doesn't necessary means they can do it by the same means. Therefore the fact that both Luffy&Roger and poseidon can hear the sea kings or that luffy and momonosuke can hear Zunisha may very well be for completely unrelated reasons. As a matter of fact Poseidon and momonosuke can "do their things" better. I can get behind saying Luffy has this power, although that still wasn't explicitly said, but for the other people is still too speculative.
 * About Chouchou, it's not clear at all. Luffy actually states he doesn't know what happened, he just know that richie attacked the dog and he deduces he fought back. Anyone could make that guess, no reason to see that deeply into it. I mean if that is enough proof of this power then we should add every member of the crew because they "talked" many times with Carue back during the alabasta arc.
 * "What's speculative about what i wrote? and lack of information has never stopped this wiki before" - well we don't have the name of the ability, we don't know how it works, as I said before we cannot be sure who has it beside Roger, that's a lot of things we don't know.
 * No one is upset, I don't know why you thought that but then I apologize if I sounded so. We are just having an argument, that's the point of talk pages.

I agree with Levi here. I believe we know too little about this power to already make the connections you described. I'm not per se against the deletion of the article, it can stay with the conjectural name template since the power has no name itself, but it'll have to be cut alot and only mention the direct references to "voice of all things". 18:18, January 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * So what you're all saying is that Roger has the ability to hear the voice of all things, and separately to hear Sea Kings, and separately yet again, to hear Zunisha?
 * This ability is very unlikely to not be related to the ability some people have to talk back, because so far everyone who could talk to- was also able to hear.
 * Let's assume we'll get a 'real' name for the voice, just like we do not have separate articles for medicine and doctors we shouldn't have separate articles for "The Voice" and those who hear it, or able to talk back.
 * Luffy saw the shop destroyed and Chuchu injured, and knew about Buggy Pirates taking over the town, but he didn't knew about Chuchu fighting Richie, or that Chuchu "told" him to be strong.
 * I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but Nova's comment about the forum seems a bit judgy.

Rhavkin (talk) 18:43, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

Keep the article. It's now major enough to deserve a page. And keep it as "Voice of All Things" instead of conjectural nonsense. I agree that a lot of unconfirmed information has to be removed, though. 18:56, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

If we keep it, we'd have to lock it or face a literal hoard of editors wanting to "correct" our decision. It's something that will be explained in time. We know that for certain. Until we know more, there's no point having a page saying "yeah this is a thing Roger can do and maybe Luffy and Momo oh and this brand new race we just heard of too".

22:45, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

It's true that the available name is a little vague, but it's indeed the best we've got. Since it showed up quite a few times, we should keep it, with a lock on it until enough information comes out to allow public edit. I mean, we have Ryusoken, which we managed to acquire the name when we see Sabo use "Moeru Ryusoken : Kaen Ryuo". We get such "dodgy" names by reading between lines. 23:26, January 28, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, may as well keep this but with a "conjectural name" tag at the top until we get more concrete information.--Xilinoc (talk) 23:43, January 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * "So what you're all saying is that Roger has the ability to hear the voice of all things, and separately to hear Sea Kings, and separately yet again, to hear Zunisha?" You got it backwards: Roger has the power to hear the voice of all things which allows him to do all the stuff he did, then separately Poseidon has the ability to talk to Sea Kings, but that doesn't mean she can read poneglyphs for the same reason. If you are saying that it's all the same stuff, then Roger, Momonosuke, Luffy end the three-eyes are all to be considered ancient weapons since they can talk to the sea kings.
 * About the name, you all are missing the point: "Voice of All Things" is not the ability. The voice of all things is a feature present in all things, it is not the power to perceive such feature. It's like naming "time" an article talking about a clock because a clock is an instrument used to measure time. You are literally swapping object and subject.


 * The fact that the ability to hear the voice of all things and the ability to talk to sea kings and Zunisha are separate but related so the article is name after the main power and the talk ability is mention in one paragraphs, and the poneglyph hearing is in even less than that. You can't deny that every one who is/was able to talk to- is also able to hear, and so far only one (two) persons who could talk to- are said to be ancient weapons, saying everyone who hear is a weapon too is the speculation.
 * Let's compare this to haki: The article is about the feature and not the ability to use it.

Rhavkin (talk) 10:22, January 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I didn't really understood what you meant, but apparently you didn't understood my point either. I'm no questioning the abilities of these people, I'm questioning the fact that you assumed to be the same power. Example: chopper can talk to animals, apparently those able to hear the voice of all things can talk to animals too. That doesn't mean that chopper can hear the voice of all things, in fact chopper can talk to animals simply because he is an animal. The same result achieved by different means.
 * That's not the same case since people use their own haki. Haki is basically the One Piece equivalent of auras/chakra of other mangas. Roger doesn't use his own "voice", he is able to hear the voice of other things which is different.


 * I'm agreeing with you, they are not the same power, but they are related. It seems the ability to talk is a derivative ability.
 * The power(s) origin isn't the issue. The fact are that this wiki have articles about powers in general and saying who uses the power on said article. If you're uncomfortable with the haki reference let's focus on Kenbunshoku Haki which actually allow the user to "hear the voice of other things".

Rhavkin (talk) 11:01, January 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * The fact they are related it's your assumption, they are related as much chopper talking with other animals is. The whole article is based on too many assumptions and speculations which is not fitting the wiki.
 * Exactly, "Kenbunshoku Haki" is the name of the power and what the article should be called after, while "voice" is what the power act upon. Using that as an example, you have just created an article named "Voice" which talks about "Kenbunshoku Haki" although you currently don't know its name. Let's say the next chapter this power will be named and explained as well what these "voices" are, what will that means? Let's call this power "hearing" for now, it will means that all the articles linking this page actually were meant to link "hearing", but instead link the "voice" page which is what the "hearing" allows to perceive.


 * The only people so far who ware able to talk to, could also hear, there is a connection. The fact that others have a similar ability doesn't mean they have the same ability and I can list many example but I don't think it necessary.
 * Let's brake it down for KH:
 * Overview:
 * Everybody emits an aura, there is a power (called KH) that can detect those auras, and there are those who use that power.
 * Now, let's compare to Voice: Everything amints a voice, there is a power that can hear the voice, and there are those who can use that power.
 * Article:
 * The article is about (named after) the power, and what it's detect and those who use it are titles.
 * The article is about the power, and what it's detect and those who use it are titles.
 * The difference is the name and that is why we have the "Conjectural Name Template".

If you want to talk about the naming, and since most of the latest comments are about it, we should close this discussion about the need and start a different one.Rhavkin (talk) 13:20, January 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * You are assuming that connection which is why it's a speculation. There could be different abilities that could do the same thing like talking to the sea kings or zunisha. That was the point of my chopper example. The fact that Roger could hear the Sea Kings and the fact that Poseidon can also do that doesnt mean they use the same power, same with Momonosuke and Zunisha. As a matter of fact Poseidon and Momonosuke can communicate with the Sea Kings and Zunisha on a different level then Roger&Luffy which is an unquestionable difference. If you justify that by saying they didn't "awake" it enough or whatever, you are simply speculating and inventing things. If in the future it will be confirmed then so be it, but right now it's nowhere confirmed.
 * You are mixing tomato and potato: the issue is not that the name is conjectural but that is wrong. You said it yourself: the article is about the power but named after what it detects. That means that for sure the power is not named "voice of all things". If you make an article called that, then it has to be rewritten entirely.

Look, it starts to feel like I'm repeating the same things. I think I made my points very clear, so it seems pointless for me to stress them further, we have to just see what the others has to say.

I don't understand what the issue is. There's a concept known as the "Voice of All Things" and the article explains how people are able to utilize it.

It's no stranger than the "Will of D" article. 17:22, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

Those people don't utilize the "voice of all things", they utilize some unknown, unnamed power to hear the voice of all things. It is quite the crucial detail. It's like creating an articled called "sound" that talks about the "hearing sense".

Agreed. We don't know the exact difference, so it's tricky to say for certain anything apart from Roger being able to use it.

17:34, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't really matter. The Voice of All Things is a named concept that exists, so it has an article. People having the ability to hear it can be talked about on the same article.

Roger and Three-Eye Tribe should be the only confirmed people who can hear it, but article can mention stuff like Sea Kings comparing Luffy to Roger as hearing their speech etc. Shirahoshi and Poseidon may just have the ability to communicate with Sea Kings specifically, like other Merfolk with fish. 17:43, January 29, 2017 (UTC)

An admin had better lock the page then.

22:04, February 8, 2017 (UTC)

I have edited the page to include only users associated with the phrase "voice of all things". Anything else is wild speculation. After these edits, I support keeping the page. 14:37, February 15, 2017 (UTC)

It looks good enough now. I support keeping it. And for the name, just keep it like this. Everyone knows what it refers to and it's clearly defined that the article is about the ability to hear it, not the thing itself. 17:38, February 15, 2017 (UTC)

Can we at least mention Poseidon, Shirahoshi, Momonosuke, and Oden in a trivia section? Rhavkin (talk) 18:21, February 15, 2017 (UTC)

No. 02:37, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

No opposition for two months, closing this. 15:00, April 13, 2017 (UTC)

Momonosuke
How do we know that Momonosuke is a user of this ability?
 * He was never said to be one
 * All confirmed users weren't able to actually converse with the voice's origin
 * Shirahoshi being able to communicate with the sea kings while never being a confirmed user of VoAT proves that VoAT isn't the only way to converse with "lesser animals" (for the lack of a better word).

It could've very well been the case that Luffy was able to hear Zunisha because of VoAT, but Momonosuke could hear him because Zunisha spoke to him. Luffy didn't even understand who spoke to him, after all. So I think, in accordance with the discussion above, Momonosuke and his father should be moved to the Trivia section, since their use of VoAT is speculation. Else, it would mean that Shirahoshi is a confirmed user of VoAT as well, since she too can communicate with "lesser animals". • Seelentau 愛 議 23:06, December 13, 2018 (UTC)