Talk:Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance

Different Groups Trivia
Five different groups doesn't make it the largest allied group. The Straw Hats Grand Fleet has seven and the Whitebeard Pirates has 16 divisions not counting the allies. Rhavkin (talk) 16:19, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

Those are subordinates, not allies. The 16 Whitebeard divisions are part of his crew. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:19, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

They aren't subordinates according to Chapter 800, but lets say they are, the seven groups ware allied among themselves before coming to Luffy. And we don't know enough about the recruitment of the Whitebeard Pirates, the Spade Pirates for example, ware Independent before joining and then their captain became a division leader. Rhavkin (talk) 16:29, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

"These seven rowdy ruffians...have stepped forward as Straw Hat’s followers!" not allies, subordinates, even if they did invite themselves. And there is nothing to support the reasoning that the 16 divisions are not part of Whitebeard's main crew. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:46, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

They aren't subordinates. Luffy isn't their leader. They decided to work together before even suggesting the sake to Luffy. Rhavkin (talk) 09:01, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Kaido is right about the fleet and Whitebeard Pirates, but the Whitebeard allies are much more then five and they are called allies and not subordinates for a reason. The Whitebeard allies are the largest allied group but since their current status is unknown the trivia should say "With five different groups in this alliance, they are 'currently the largest known number of allied groups" with the Whitebeard allies in a sub-note. 87.69.142.211 09:10, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

History
Should Law's and the Kozuki Clan's history really be part of the alliance history? All that happened before the alliance was formed. The Buggy and Alvida Alliance and XXX Gym Martial Arts Alliance history section starts when the alliance was formed not from the reasons for seeking allies. Rhavkin (talk) 19:49, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

You have a point. But they do explain how the alliance came to be in a certain way. I feel like that is worth noting. The other two alliances don't have much of a background as well, but I get what you mean. 20:13, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

So at least it deserve a major clean up. The relationship between Law and Rosinante, and the samurais separation is irrelevant, and nowhere it is said that Law allied himself with Caesar "in preparation for the alliance..." and not simply gathering information. Rhavkin (talk) 20:22, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I agree, be my guest. 21:27, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

Fire Tank Pirates
I don't think the Firetank or Sun Pirates should be added to the alliance gallery yet. The purpose of this alliance, as stated in Chapter 819 and the page's introduction, is expressly to take down Kaido. The alliance right now is between the Firetank Pirates, Sun Pirates, and a tiny portion of the NMPS Alliance for an entirely different purpose. Neither of the two other crews have shown any interest in working with the larger alliance against Kaido yet. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:37, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I agree. They shouldn't be included in this particular alliance. 21:26, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I think it's a little more complicated than that. The question is whether or not the Sanji Retrieval Team are a subgroup of the alliance or just of the Straw Hats?

It's a given fact that the Fire Tank Pirates are allies with the retrieval team, but are they allies of the main group (whichever it may be)? The closest example is the Impel Down prisoners, who followed a (singular) part of the Buggy Alvida Alliance, and as a result are honor bound to its entirety.

On one hand, Luffy asked to pause the alliance activity until he brings Sanji back. On the other hand, he is aided by Pedro and Carrot.

Now, the derived decision affects the gallery, navibox, bounty, alliance strength, etc. and also, if the team aren't part of the alliance, then the Totto Land Arc shouldn't by in the history section as well.

Now I think that alliance with the retrieval team, count as alliance with the main crew which is the Straw Hat Pirates, who themselves are a part of the NPMS Alliance, so if you count one you have to count the other. If you argue that if they only allied themselves with part of the main crew(s) doesn't count, then I would like to point out that some of the allies in the Straw Hats "Allies" tab allied themselves with just a part of the crew, be it during their separation period or their split in the Dressrosa Saga. Rhavkin (talk) 12:17, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

If A and B ally, and A and C ally, B and C are not automatically allied. Bege may want to ally with Luffy, but he has given no indication that he wants to ally with Wano or the minks.

17:20, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

That's why the Fire Tanks won't be in the Heart Pirates, Mink Tribe, and Kozuki Clan gallery, Just like the Grand Fleet. The only thing that makes them part of this alliance is the fact that Pedro and Carrot, who are part of the Mink Tribe, are also part of the Sanji Retrieval Team.

Who put the Sanji Retrieval Team as a subgroup of the Straw Hats crew members section of their page, and put Pedro and Carrot as allies. I'm perfectly fine with saying that the Fire Tanks are only allies of the Straw Hats and not the entire alliance, and all of it's repercussions, but A, I'm not gonna vote for this option in a poll; and B, I need to know that what this community agree to. Rhavkin (talk) 18:48, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

So, delete the Whole Cake Island arc or add the Fire Tanks to the gallery? Rhavkin (talk) 10:37, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, different alliances for different purposes. The transitive property does not apply in this case 18:33, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

kid is a leader now if yes what section should his crew be under
the Kid Pirates are shown joining alliance in recent chapter he is leader of his own crew/group just like law and luffy and momo and neko/inuTo love this (talk) 14:43, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

A leader of a group in the alliance is different from one of the leaders of the alliance. Hyugoro is the leader of the yakuza, Kin'emon is the leader of the Scabbards... Rhavkin (talk) 15:05, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

no it is not if u are leader of a group in alliance u are a leader in the allaince law luffy momo inu and neko are all leaders of there own groups same as kid is. he is a equal to them
 * hyogro is not leader of all yakuza or even his own group currently he has respwct of other leaders but is not in charge of all of them
 * Ok we are not doing this again the Nine Red Scabbards are not there own group they fall under the kozuki famiy same with kyshiro family nowTo love this (talk) 15:12, March 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * A leader in the alliance is not a leader of the alliance. Kid was not one of the leaders who formed the alliance.
 * The yakuza bosses from Udon treat Hyogoro as their leader, even if they were from different factions in the past, now they are all under his leadership.
 * I'm not saying they aren't, just that there leaders of groups in the alliance who are not leaders of the alliance.

Rhavkin (talk) 15:59, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

There is no indication that Kid joined the alliance:
 * When Luffy called out to him after he showed up, Kid stated that he did not want them to have all the glory for taking down Kaido.
 * Neither Luffy, Law, nor the samurai were aware that they would run into Kid, and Kid referred to the waiting samurai he encountered earlier as obstacles to him.

I wouldn't go so far as to plainly say Kid is only going to Onigashima to take down Kaido himself, but right now that seems more likely than him officially joining forces with the alliance, based on what we know right now. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:10, March 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * yes it is those not matter if he wasnt there when first was formed kid joined this alliance he not taking orders from any of them he has same amount of authority


 * no they do not they respect him and listen to him alot but he is not there leader


 * last time I am saying this they are not there own group they fall under kozuki family they are a sub group so the nine,the kyoshiro family, and my Amtyama thieves all fall under this so no kinemon would never be consider a leader because momo is his

if that's the case kid pirates shouldn't be on this page anywhere yet but if we agree they joined the alliance kid should be under leader section and his group under membersTo love this (talk) 16:17, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

They are just like the Grand Fleet and G-5, but we can't ignore them working together toward a certain goal, which is what alliances are. Maybe we should have "Allies" separate from "Other Members"? Rhavkin (talk) 16:21, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

ok grand fleet and g-5 shouldnt even be on this page
 * grand fleet falls under straw hats sense they are only loyal to them / affilated with them really its same thing for nine and other groups loyal to kozuki family


 * G-5 was never really ally to them they juat did t try to stop themTo love this (talk) 16:25, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

This page was originally about the Straw Hat-Heart Pirates Alliance, which then evolved with the Minks and Samurai present. With this in mind, having the G-5 and the Grand Fleet there is not wrong since they joined forces with the original alliance.

Kid at most is an reluctant ally like Smoker. He's not really a leader or anything of the sort.KingCannon (talk) 17:04, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

kid controls a faction that would be part of alliance he isnt like other people under ally section saying he isnt leader ia bascically saying he below those who are and smoker wasnt trying help bring kaido down he just helping his man escape.To love this (talk) 17:12, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

Smoker did more then that: even after his men were saved, he did not arrest the Straw Hats nor Law, something he wasn't against after Alabasta, and his actions against Ceasar and Doflamingo hirt Kaido.

Either way, the topic is about Kid status within the alliance, not the Kid Pirates being allies, so stop removing them from the template. Rhavkin (talk) 18:23, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

the discussion is about should kid pirates be consider members of alliance and if yes were should they be placed so until we all come to agreement of more info is revealed stop changeing the gallery follow the rulesTo love this (talk) 19:10, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

There is a difference between being a member and being an ally, as I mentioned three hours ago. Also, the Kid Pirates were listed as allies for a week since 974 came out, according to the rules, if you had a problem with that, you should have talked about it then. Right now, you're just saying that since they are not included as you think they should, they shouldn't be included at all. The work with the alliance, and will continue to do so until shown otherwise. Thus they should be included in the allies section of the template. Rhavkin (talk) 19:44, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

this last time i am saying this this is discuisson if they should be on this page and if yes were should they be listed it doesnt not matter if they were there for a week or a year as soon a discuission is made the page is to be revert back to before it was made until this discuisson is done and we all make majority agreement they will stay removed if u dont like that rule go talk to admins about changeing it but until then u will follow this rule just like rest of us have to. memebrs are groups straw hat pirrates kozuki family mink tribe and heart pirates l, the kid lirates are group led by guy who is not member of sub member of any of those groups so again my postion is they are not allies they are members of this allianceTo love this (talk) 20:56, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

First of all, if you think you can revert a year long edit because you don't like, let me inform you that you're wrong. After an edit there is a grace period of few days, and afterwards that is the template, any any changes, even reverts, needs to be discussed before the edits are made, not after you start an edit war. Learn the rules before you preach them, especially since you are preaching them wrong.

As for your poor arguments, Law has no jurisdiction over the Straw Hats as seen in chap 930 page 13 when Usopp refuse his orders. The Yakuza doesn't follow Luffy orders as seen in chap 952 page 10. Those are proves of a leader without jurisdiction, and a sub group that does not follow a leader. Kid is aiding them in the takedown of Kaido, thus he is an ally.

So the Kid Pirates are part of the alliance forces, and Kid is not one of the leaders of the alliance, so they are just allies. Rhavkin (talk) 21:29, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

1)Go and read the rules when talk page is made to discuss a edit past or present the edit it to be removed until the discuisson is done does not matter how long it been up until the tlk page is done u leave as ot was before the frekaing edit happen so stop acting like child and grow up and follow rules just like rest us and dont start edit war because u dont like it learn to wait if others agree they go back up if they dont it stays down but until either one follow the rules. your edits do not superseded anyone else we follow rules u do the same.

2)take five seconds and think just five there are three sections for this page leaders l, memebers and allies are kid pirates subordinate group like grand fleet answer no are they un organzation group that all fall under a generic name like yakuza no they are not are they a singular person who kot offically affilated with group but still claim loyalty to them like riku family elizbeth or tama l etc answer is NO but guess what they are a singular core group that follow command of one specific person YES they are they follow kid same way straw hats follow luffy heart pirates follow law and kozuki family follow momo because just like them kid represents his crew in this alliance making him a leader if we use your poorexcuse for argument then then there be no need for memebers section at all it just be leaders and allies

and wow so your agrument is because in scence that obivously comical usopp refuse to listen laws order of dieing instead snitching about there plans as proof that leaders do not have jurdiscation and really i wait what order did luffy give yakuza did they not follow go ahead tell me?

the kid pirates are members of alliance not allies and kid is a leader because of that fact To love this (talk) 22:00, March 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * 1) Here are the rules, which clearly stat (twice) that a page should stay as it was before the edit war, and this this started when you added Kid to the leader section, the Kid Pirates in the allies section is the original. KNOW THE RULES BEFORE YOU PREACH THEM! Unless you can provide a rule that says otherwise, and source it, stop undoing the edits.
 * 2) What make you think those are the criteria for those sections? Who said the allies are just subordinate groups, group of generic name, or single person? Allies, as shown on the section can be a number of different thing, like groups affiliated with one of the key members (SHGF), an independent group that works with the alliance but is not part of them (G-5), a person who works with the alliance but is not part of them (O-Lin), and even someone who helped the alliance without even being part of their plans (Elizabello). There are no rules to being allies, so don't try saying that because they don't fit a category other allies fit into, then they are not allies.
 * 3) The scene being "obviously comical" is your opinion, and the Yakuza in the chapter I mentioned, after joining Hyogoro, try to kill Luffy, who told them to let him go, but only listen to Hyogoro, who isn't a leader of the alliance, proving that being a leader of the alliance doesn't give you authority over all of it's members.

Rhavkin (talk) 06:23, March 21, 2020 (UTC)


 * THE PAGE BEFORE THE EDIT WAR STARTED DID NOT HAVE THE KID PIRATES THERE WILL U FREAKING LISTEN FOR ONCE THE DISCUISSION IS ABOUT IF THEY SHOULD BE HERE ON THIS PAGE AND IF SO WHERE THIS HOW PAGE LOOKED BEFORE THEY APPEARED

subordinate groups Straw Hat Grand Fleet group of generic name to classify people Yakuza
 * That is lirteally what all of freaking people and groups in ally section are describe as

people who have no offical affilation to any of them but still help cause situion benefit them as well Tama Charlotte Linlin G-5 Riku Family Elizabello II

there are rules for allies if there werent every person that every helped the crew ould be listed in section.


 * Any one with I.Q higher then orochi could tell that scence was comical it was meant to be funny and omg so was yakuza scence dude u really need to stop here because if your really trying use comical scence as arguments

and this last time i am tell u this stop editing page with the stuff were discussing on the talk page do not try say oh i made new section for them so its differnt now its not wait until the talk page is doneTo love this (talk) 14:50, March 21, 2020 (UTC)


 * The Kid Pirates were added on March 15, you removed them on March 20. The edit war is about their removal, not their addition. So far all who have comment about the subject agreed that thy are allies, so stop removing them.
 * You cant categorize the allies. The fact that there some are groups and some are individuals, some follow one subgroup of the alliance, and some are independent, some joined to fight Kaido and some joined earlier for a different reason, all of that proves that you can't say the Kid Pirates shouldn't be included.
 * And even going by your misguided categorizations, since there is one subordinate group, and one group with generic name, why couldn't there be one crew?
 * What makes you think it was comical? was Usopp never shown to be a coward? What about his willingness to say anything to save his life contradict his personality? Is Usopp cowardliness sometimes used for comedic effect? Yes. Does it proves this scene is comical? No.
 * You need to re-read the rules of edits. You can't remove what you don't like and then start a discussion about it. If you disagree with something, First start a discussion, Second try to convince others or wait about a week of no comments, and Third edit the page. Adding back the Kid Pirates is the way the template should be until this discussion is over. Accept it.

Finally, if you use "freaking" or insult someone's IQ, that may be a cause from suspension, or even a ban. Read this before your next comment. Know that someone not agreeing with you does not make that person lesser. Watch your words. Also, I am not a dude. Rhavkin (talk) 15:37, March 21, 2020 (UTC)


 * It doesnt matter they were added on the march 15  the rules clearly state the page should be reverse to how it was before  the edit war started  the kid pirates were not on this page before edit war started


 * Yes u can categorize this groups to show who usually is in ally section for alliances so that random people groups etc are not consntanly added to  sections if we go by your way of thinking germa 66 and fire tank pirates would be under allies as well  which would make zero sense.
 * Yes it is comical scenceevery time usopp acting pike a coward has been a comical scence this manga same as every time buggy has appeared it has been for laughs i can not believe i have to explain this like some one asking to explain how luffy  jumping off zou  is funny or ace and whitbeard death scence was sad.
 * YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULES it doesnt matter if u think your right or do not like how something is done  you are not special or better any one else on this wiki we follow talk page rule same as we do that means until it is done u do not added your edit back nor do u try to sneak it in a new way u wait until a decision is made on the talk page  u dont have to like it but u will follow it like rest of us do.

finally freaking isn't insult of any kind  and i.Q lower then orochi is broad statement for any one who trys to pass off a questionable  arguments as facts but know what i am not about to tell u why using comical scence as proof makes zero sense u have realize for your self dude. but do u know what will get people banned starting edit wars and not following wiki rules. u need to learn u bound by rules like every one else and acting like u can do what ever u want is not fair to rest of us who follow these rulesTo love this (talk) 16:12, March 21, 2020 (UTC)

Alright, here's my input on this:
 * I still don't consider the Kid Pirates to be part of the alliance. An alliance is a pact formed to work together for a mutual goal. While Kid appears to have the same goal as Luffy and Law, there's zero indication that he is working together with them. If anything it seems more likely that he's operating alone and just ran into them.
 * There cannot be a distinction between "Members" and "Allies" on this gallery. This is an alliance, so any allies here are members. Whether this be the groups who allied with Luffy and Law on Punk Hazard/Dressrosa to take down Caesar and Doflamingo, or the groups who joined the alliance on Wano.
 * Thus, Big Mom should be removed. Big Mom was never part of the alliance; she went to Udon for a different objective than the rest of the group.
 * I'd propose changing the "Leaders" section to "Founders". Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:15, March 21, 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for locking that page

my input they offically were not allies but they all worked together for a common goal.
 * yes its not offical said that kid joined the alliance but i feel this situation  is like punk hazard one with marines and   germa 66  in whole cake arc


 * I feel there shouod be differnt section for members and allies because members take direct orders/affilated with representative


 * i would be ok with leaders be turned into foundersTo love this (talk) 17:36, March 21, 2020 (UTC)

Mt. Atama Thieves and Kyoshiro Family(when chapter is officially relase)
these groups do not need be in this ally secion both of there leaders are memebers of kozuki familyTo love this (talk) 21:02, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

Former members of the family who only recently joined. The groups were formed outside of the family. Rhavkin (talk) 21:34, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

really ok when did Denjiro leave the kozuki family go head tell me chapter this happen in u cant cause never happen?

Kyoshiro Family is a yakuza family so even if we use your way of thinking ally sections it would make zero sense  to have them right next to gallery that says yakuza.

Ashura Doji is member of kozuki family once again he not leader  like  he surbinate.he rejoined he is leader of that group it lirteally implyed any one loyal to him is loyal to kozuki family  them. sayikg they should be under gallery section is like saying Inuarashi Musketeer Squad  need a spot under alliesTo love this (talk) 22:09, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

They're not members of the Kozuki Family. Only their leaders are. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:15, March 21, 2020 (UTC)

They are not blood members yes but reatiners fall under as memebers of family because  they  serve them a  subordinatesTo love this (talk) 17:22, March 21, 2020 (UTC)