Forum:Inactive Chat Moderators

Sup

There are a few users who have chat moderator powers, namely http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Pandawarrior, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:KuroAshi98, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Imhungry4444 and http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ryuzakiforever, who have either been inactive for a certain period of time, requested to have their powers stripped or just haven't been on chat at all, and don't really need moderator powers anymore. (note: I'm just the messenger for the chat goers, people, this isn't any personal hit list I'm making) As for the other chat moderators, who have either a. been coming online at least semi-regularly or b. attended chat whenever there are at least 3 or more users online. These users are http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Raptor_of_Love, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Calua, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:12th_Supernova, http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Jademing and http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Straw_Hat_Boy. If anyone disagrees and believes someone else should be listed as inactive/active, speak up or the list is in rock. Again, this list was made by a few people who are regularly on chat, and not necessarily the entire community, so it's open to change. Since chat has been pretty dead lately, the purpose of the forum is to discuss possible demotion of inactive users, not to discuss potential candidates as replacements. Since it's not really a huge deal, let's just keep it as civil and simple as possible. 20:58, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion 1
Sounds fine to me. It's not like chat is active these days, so losing a few mods won't really make any difference. And some of them have expressed their desire to lose their mod rights anyway.

12:27, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

If you only want to demote the inactive ones, then certainly. But I really don't want to see new mods here, the chat has been really empty during this year so the 3-4 active mods are enough. 13:35, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Look guys. This wiki means a lot to me. I entered the chat the very first day they added it, and I have personal connections to countless users. The community has been so supportive, I feel like it's shaped me into who I am and really pushed me forward in my dream. What's more is that's it's helped the people around me, my love Shay being strongly impacted by the friends she's made here. I've seen a million users come and go, and all I can say is that I really love this place. I still remember the day the chat encouraged me to become a chat moderator. They all told me to go for it and I left my request on DP's page. Now there are times, for the sake of my personal health, where I have backed off from excessive internet usage, but I've never left this community. I find it harder and harder every day to stay in touch as my schedule fills up and the chat remains dead. I promise that I actually am here, every day. I don't say anything, I just watch. It's a comfort to me. I check to see if anyone's in the chat, and there never really is. The truth is that I'm just really hopeful that one day things will return to the way they were, and that people will be chatting again and this community that molded me will feel less like the sickly bird you're waiting to die so you can stop feeding it. And if they day comes, I'll be there. So I would be very sad if you were to remove my chat moderator position. It means more to me than it probably should. And I realize I don't have much support for why you should let me have this, but it matters to me. If you feel a need to take it away from me, I really do understand and I will hold no resentment. But I don't feel as though my status is hurting anyone. Just please, take me off your wipe list, because I have no desire to lose my postion. 14:32, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

^ The chat is only dead because everybody is on Skype. SeaTerror (talk) 17:42, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Too bad we aint shooting a drama movie about break-ups, you would be perfect for the leading role. 18:18, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Calm it, Staw. Ryu, I get what you're saying, but if you only need the mod position to keep happy, then you probably shouldn't have it.

18:22, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Whatever has joined the chat.

11:23 Mr. Whatever dead. back to skype

11:24 SeaTerror ^ point proven

Mr. Whatever has left the chat. SeaTerror (talk) 18:27, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

ST, don't be jelly cuz nobody invites you. 18:34, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

No matter the outcome of the Forum, DP won't demote anyone, Forum over. 18:38, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Any mods who asked to be demoted themselves, they are definitely demoted. Any other inactive mod, we ask first, then if they don't respond or approve demotion, we demote. 20:40, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Yata, I know for a fact that X, (now Raptor of Love), Hungry, Panda and Kuro all asked to be demoted and none of them got their wish. Even though X no longer wants to be demoted, it's no excuse for the other three. I do know that they made a request for demotion to DP instead of you or Deva, so that's something to consider. In response to Ryu, I support you keeping your mod position if it means that much to you, but still try to come on chat at least once or twice a week (when chat is active, of course), because even if I support you, chances are others aren't as ok with it. In response to ST, I agree that skype has been overused lately, as it was originally just used as an emergency replacement due to OP wiki chat crashing a few months ago. Since then, it's kind of become more of a little club for some members, which essentially excludes the rest of community (though anyone who wants to join is readily welcomed and need only ask). Again, not a huge deal, but something to consider. 21:32, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Wow, this again, really? This is really immature of you guys, even if we have gone through many of these type of forums, you guys just can't give up even if it has already been agreed on. This is just complete bullshit. When clearly the reason why they are inactive chat moderators is because there is nothing to moderate! Why else do think we wouldn't get on for a long time? Most of the people on this forum are clearly on Skype and have ganged on us. Even if I'm practically assured to keep my position as a chat moderator, I'm sticking up for those you guys have listed as in risk. What is so hard to give up the idea? None of the moderators that you guys have listed have corrupted the chat or done anything wrong other than living their lives. We can't be on the chat for 24/7 like you guys want us to be. We have lives to live, so do you. When you guys are on Skype all the time, and using it as a chat, we can't moderate anything as there is no one on the chat anymore. Then we would be marked as inactive, making any chat moderator an easy target to remove their position even if they haven't done anything. I truthfully stand behind DP not demoting any chat mod, because as he explained they haven't misused their powers and if they want to come back anytime, they will able to take care of things. Having extra chat moderators that aren't as active or inactive will not harm the wiki, because it's kind of a separate thing when you think about it. We selected these chat moderators because we believe they will be responsible. Having the position will not kill anyone, other than Staw apparently. Even if you are a regular user, you can still report any sort of activity that does happen in the chat without a chat moderator present. It's simple and a chat moderator will probably talk to them or ban them next time they are on.

Staw, seriously shut the fuck up. You irritate me, and practically everyone on this wiki once in a while. We already got your view, you want demote as many people as possible. Maybe it's your weird fetish. You are acting really immature in this situation, putting down anyone who is fighting to keep the “inactive” chat moderators. I assume that you with probably Galaxy, as you guys are a duo, were the main ones to convince Fin to create this forum as you guys are known to make too many forums. How many times do we have to create this forum, in different forms, and have discussions whether or not to keep, when it usually ends with the same result as the previous one. How many times does it have to be done to get it through your thick skull? The progress is long and damn annoying. I still do not understand how you even became temporary admin, especially when you act like a tyrant whenever you do get it. You are a spoiled kid, wanting everything you lay your eyes on, and not giving up until you get it. In these situations, you will not give up until you get it your own way. I expect that you want to demote chat moderators so another chat moderator forum will be in action soon, asking for more active chat moderators. Probably will convince/manipulate someone to nominate you, and eventually somehow ending up winning it. Getting it your own way, like a spoiled brat. Fucking moron, I swear.

Anyone saying that it isn't Skype's fault is completely bullshitting themselves. I do blame Skype for the inactivity of the chat, I'll be one of the first ones to admit it. Many of the users that you have listed as "inactive" have actually come on randomly on random days to check on the chat, but in reality, there is nothing to check because there is no one on chat. It's a fucking ghost town. I get on the chat, and there is practically no one on there. What I figured out is that most are on Skype, which I get irritated by after a while. It's boring to just sit there alone on the chat. Poor ST, I feel you. So seriously, the currently problem is that no one is on it anymore, so there really doesn't have to be a reason to have a chat moderator when no one really is on it. If you did fix this simple problem, this stupid forum wouldn't have been created in the first place. So if you guys want to have more active chat mods on chat, then get on the chat, you lazy asses. 06:10, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, she's right. I don't need to be taking up the injured puppy position here, I haven't done anything to deserve my star taken away. The reason I haven't moderated the chat is because there IS no chat. If you think any mod isn't going to do their job, take it as a challenge. Actually fill up the chat. Get 5 or more people in there, I dare you. I'll be there, I've always been. The problem isn't inactive moderators, it's an inactive chat. 06:20, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Blaming inactive chat moderators for an inactive chat is not the way to go. It's simple to make the chat alive once again, it's just assembling people to the chat. If you guys, regular users, don't show up on chat, then it'll probably stay dead. I know that not anyone of us wants that, since we have made many friends on it and it gets fun. 06:42, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah... no. Don't name me as a supporter of this forum. I don't give a crap about it. Mr. Whatever (talk) 09:24, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x456/ShadowForce98/DemodMe_zps4874f1d6.png

No, seriously. It's dead, rotting, and even the flies and buzzards have grown tired and left. I asked DP to de-mod me months ago and never got a reply. I do pop into chat a few times every week, and every time I am the only one there. No wonder people think I've disappeared - they themselves are never around to see me. 09:30, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

^ this is literally the only reason I volunteered to make the forum in the first place

If a chatmod WANTS to be demoted, let's just demote them already. I agree that skype has way more traffic than op chat lately, and that overall you can't blame chatmods for being inactive lately because the chat's been dead as dirt, whereas the skype is alive and well just because people prefer using it. I honestly believe that if we demodded everyone, no one would care because that's how dead the chat has been. I didn't want to sound like a tight-ass, but the skype shit is getting way too popular, when it was originally just used as an emergency chat. But seriously, back to chatmods, I actually don't give a single shit about the inactivity of Panda and Hungry and whoever else as much as I do about ignoring their requests for demotion. The only one that was considered "inactive" and hasn't requested demotion is Ryu, and even if he were an inactive admin, I still wouldn't care cuz in the end, it's not hurting anyone. Anyway, people who want to be demoted should get demoted. This isn't some fuckin lifetime contract. 12:13, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously idgaf,and skype is way more convenient than this chat imo,but "Having the position will not kill anyone" was never considered whenever an admin/chatmod inactivity forum was opened in the past:/--

Well personally I also dgaf about the mods or the chat cause i am on skype with the exact same people that i was talking some months ago on the wiki chat, with the difference that the chat there is better and more efficient.

But my opinion on the matter is, the guys who ask to be demoded themselves should have the right to and as for the others who want to keep their star they should keep it since its not their fault for the chat being dead and actually not having anything to do. *If it was active and they weren't joining the chat then yes i would also support to replace the mods but thats not the case now since its dead.

As for the people who moan that the chat is dead cause skype blah blah (which is true) just shut up, you dont have the right to tell anyone on which chat to talk and be active. Also everyone is welcome in skype, just ask for it, we can't know who wants and who doesn't wants to be on skype. ST if you want to chat with us just leave your pride aside and ask to join the skype instead of moaning that skype killed the chat, and ignore staw, he's staw... 15:25, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Calu, I know many people hate me on this wiki but they have reasons.. except you. As far as I remember, I never did anything bad to you to make you hate every fucking tiny thing I say, heck I rarely even talk to you in chat. So you'd better shut your fucking mouth, drop this obsession and get a hobby or something. And no, making voodoo dolls of me is not a hobby. And btw, you should read less Agatha Christie, there is not a conspiracy behind everything, Fintin decided to make this forum by himself, I'm neither manipulating him nor is he a sock of me.

As for Skype killing the chat, why do you people even care about us using skype? Most people in here actually are on skype or were at some point and left. Having a skype chat doesn't mean we won't come in wikia chat, and it also doesn't mean that you guys can't come in there too. Oh, and Kuro actually does come in chat, I've seen him many times in there alone. 15:35, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Anyway, since we all appear to agree on the fact that mods who request to be demoted should indeed receive a demotion, I think we've come to a consensus! 15:43, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

"(note: I'm just the messenger for the chat goers, people, this isn't any personal hit list I'm making)"

"Fintin decided to make this forum by himself" Nice try Staw. SeaTerror (talk) 17:19, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

How did this forum become a vehicle for personal grudges? 18:27, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Car or boat? SeaTerror (talk) 19:29, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Helicopter, actually. You can air more grudges that way. 22:22, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Day Two (since asking to have my rights removed): I wake up to find that I am still a chat moderator at the One Piece wiki. Members of the forum are more interested in personal attacks than actual discussion, and I am reminded of why I left this community. My request seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I cry, and then pray to Shrek that tomorrow may be better. 23:49, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Geez, sounds like DP is being neglectful of his duties. Why didn't you just ask me for a de-mod? I suppose I can just remove the rights of all who have asked? 00:11, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan, Yata. Is there anyone who objects? 08:16, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Jeez, harmful forum much? You guys need to stop taking pot-shots at each other and think about what will actually help the wiki. Maybe it's because I've been away for a while, or maybe it's just been a long time coming, but this forum seems to be much worse for us as a community than any other in recent memory.

I'll say my piece about mods here, but there needs to be a chat before we can talk about moderators. So I'm starting a new forum section to talk about the skype chat.

My thoughts on mods have always been this: There is no problem having extra mods, as long as the chat is fully covered. If people said they do not want their rights, then take em. If people have said that having their rights taken away will make them sad, don't take em. Ryu is incapable of doing any harm with his rights. The number of mods does not need to be a set number. Demoting the mods will not lead to new mod elections, and the ambitious people after their heads will not be elected. A chat that is not fully moderated leads to electing more mods, the removal of mods does not mean we need more mods. I see no logical reason why we have to make our friend Ryu, who has done a lot for our community with his presence, friendliness, service, and his pretty fantastic comic based on our community, sad by removing his rights. 01:57, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Skype Chat Discussion
This forum (and Nova's blog) are the first I've heard of this Skype group, and I'm a veteran editor. But my first reaction to the news was that it was bad, but not that bad. After thinking about it for awhile, I've come to this conclusion:

The private Skype chat is the single worst thing to happen to the wiki in all my years here.

It's exclusionary, and if it continues, it will lead to a slow, agonizing death of our community. Sure, it makes sense at first, as the chat system is pretty buggy here, and it drops every so often, and it is missing a lot of really cool features. On paper, it makes sense to just move the community's chat there. However in practice, it will not be so perfect. New users will avoid it because they will need to jump through a number of "hoops" to get into it:
 * First, they have to actually come into our regular chat when people are actually there, a huge problem when it's empty all the time. Very unlikely to happen, as I've actually been looking for this for several months with no luck.
 * Then, they have to actually decide that the conversation is good enough to want to stay, which was hard enough back in the pre-skype days.
 * Then, they have to "earn" access to the skype. Someone here said, "just ask for the skype", but there's a few problems with that. First, they have to overcome their own nervousness to ask for it, then they need to ask someone who will give to them. Can everyone in that group honestly say that they would give access to EVERYONE who would ask for access? No matter how annoying/useless they are? I sincerely doubt it. It will be exclusionary, no matter what your intent.
 * Lastly, you have to have/be willing to use skype. You have to download and run another program to chat, which is far less convenient than just clicking on the chat button on the wiki. Also, most people I know who use skype (myself included) just use their own real name as their username on Skype. I've told a lot of people on this website some deeply personal things, my real name is not one of them.

So you'll end up with a small community of active people with no influx of new users, but in a more reliable and personal chat. Sounds perfect, right? Sounds like there's nothing really wrong with that, right? That's until you get sick of someone in that group and quit. Which is bound to happen, especially with the way you guys have been at each other's throats in this forum. Usually, the process I just described is how people end up leaving our community anyways, except with the Skype group you've found a way to make it faster and streamline it. Good job.

And I bet some people who actually have the stomach to read the wall of text I'm making might say that "It's just chat, it's not that important." To that, I have to say that it's actually the fastest and easiest way to become and remain an active part of our community. I love forums and talk pages, but they're a fucking joke when compared to the chat in terms of what it actually accomplishes for us as a community. You get to know your fellow editors and One Piece fans, help people discover and learn about the series and most importantly, help each other edit. Even before the loss of my laptop, I wasn't editing much, and I can pretty much credit that to two things: The lack of a chat to keep me interested in sharing my opinions quickly, and the loss of my ability to talk to Galaxy9000. Without talking to Gal, I don't actually know what to really edit anymore... I want to edit, but the motivation to go find something to work on by myself just isn't there. I'm sorry that the community drove him away, and if the rumors that he is actually Mr. Whatever are true, it still doesn't matter because there is no chat anymore.

If you're in the Skype group, I strongly suggest you stop it, for the sake of the wiki. I place no blame on Nova for creating it as well, for one, it does seem like a good idea at first, and as like he said in his blog, even if he disbanded it others would make it again. So I plead to all of you in there equally to just stop.

And if you've never even been in chat, but are still a regular user, I actually urge you to try it out for awhile. This wiki is better at conversation than these hateful forums make it seem. It's fun, and it can be an insanely great tool for editing projects.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I really feel the need to say this, as again, I think the chat is very important, and this behavior is the worst I've seen from the community. Under normal circumstances, I'd try to spout some crap about how I don't mean to offend anyone, but I won't give you that honor this time. If you are a part of this exclusive group on Skype that is hurting our community, you should feel bad about it. I'm honestly shocked I'm the first one to bring up the morality of it. I'm shocked. I thought we were better than this. By the rules of the wikia, I can't say that you've done anything worth punishment, but honestly, it's morally wrong, and you all need to think about that.

If you want your precious isolationism more than you want your community to thrive, by all means, go ahead. I can't stop you. But you do it without me.

Sorry for writing the least fun post I've ever made on the internet. 01:57, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Did you people drink the water of stupidity or something? The fuck is wrong with you lot? You can't and won't fucking tell me what application to use and what not to use, is that so hard for your tiny little minds to conceive? You don't like our skype group? Then let me make someting clear: I DON'T BLOODY CARE! This is not really towards JSD, not him mainly at least. 02:10, August 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's true that I can't tell you what application to use. What you do with your time, with the friends you've made is not my business. But when you use an app to take people away from our own community and attempt to detract from our ability to survive, you have no right to be angry at people for asking you to stop. To try and replace OP chat with your own group isn't very good for us. We can recover from it, but it will take longer if you keep lying to yourselves saying that being on skype makes you a part of this community. 02:17, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * I still don't give a shit about your opinion on it, please do explain how you'll stop me from using it. 02:21, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you have the idea in your head that I want to take action against you. If you've read what I've said, I've repeatedly mentioned that I have no power to take against you. The only action I can take is to ask you and everyone else to stop, and explain why you should. 02:26, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't. What I do concerns nobody but myself. 02:27, August 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, well skype (and if you blame him, Nova) is not 100% to blame for all this. Though I do try and regularly join the op chat in order to at least be present in case new users come on by, the problem with trying to get back other wiki users now is that A. they're not obligated to help the wiki whatsoever by stopping with skype and coming back to wiki chat and B. skype's features are often much more convenient in contrast to wikia chat, which often crashes without notice, lags people out, or completely fails altogether, prompting many to switch from OP chat to Skype entirely. The chat, thankfully, has been more active lately due to people slowly trickling back in, but is still quite barren. I'd like to note, however, that a number of blog writers/commenters have decided not to come to chat, as JSD said, either due to their ignorance of the chat's existence or just their choosing not to join. If the latter is true, we can only guess as to why they have chosen not to if they've never been to the chat itself. Since many older regular chatgoers have left, we've had a shortage of chatgoers anyway in recent times, meaning that the small amount of people who are actually using the skype (around 8-9 people) can't be blamed for the inactivity of the chat. As such, rather than try and draw back the few people who were left on the OP chat, I suggest we try and draw in a new crowd of active users on the wiki to the chat using another method, as old users merely being present was clearly not working well. On another note, JSD, though some users have tried to maintain activity in chat (myself included), I haven't seen youin chat at all lately. Now, if you have a busy schedule that takes away from chat time, or you've been on a small hiatus from editing the wiki, or anything of a similar nature, then that is understandable. Another issue I'd like to point out isthat Nova did make the skype group public in a blog a few months ago, so although it is exclusionary in the sense that only those who know of it can join, it's innacurate to say that we've made it private, as we've offered invitations to various people to join the chat, some of whom have rejected. All in all, though the OP chat has indeed been heavily underused lately, the Skype chat is not 100% to blame, and we can make as many forum discussions as we want telling those who use it to stop using Skype, but in the end, they can do what they want and we are powerless to stop them. As such, I think the OP chat's saving grace is the attraction of new crowds of regular users who haven't yet used chat. If anyone disagrees or agrees so far, feel free to speak up.  02:38, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Skype is to blame since as already mentioned it was ONLY supposed to be used for when Wikia chat was down. Besides that's also why we had Tinychat anyway. We could have just kept using Tinychat. Anyway the Skype people are also to blame for the fact that you can both use the OP chat and Skype at the same time. SeaTerror (talk) 02:44, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Thing is, there's only 8 people that use the skype regularly. If that's the number of people it takes to kill an entire wiki chat, we clearly need to get some more people. Also, Tinychat is shit. 02:47, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Because they don't use both at the same time. SeaTerror (talk) 02:52, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

It seems like the biggest problem with chat is how many bugs there are. Has anyone contacted staff about it? 02:55, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

I think there may have been a user who contacted staff about it. I never heard about the outcome. 02:58, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Staff seems to do that a lot. They still haven't fixed the problem with the visual editor and the refs It seems like chat's pretty active now, though, so maybe nothing needs to be done. 03:01, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I know I haven't been in chat much recently, mostly due to the death of my laptop, but even before that, chat was still empty most of the time and I saw no reason to join and wait for others to show up. Personally, no matter how good Skype is, we can't link it to the wiki for new users to join as simply as clicking one button. That to me, is a feature so important it outweighs all the drops and lag of the wikia chat. And in regards to Nova's blog, I do vaguely remember that, but since it was months ago now and is I'm sure locked by now, it can't really be used as a basis for saying that the group is currently publicly open. And hey, I'd kill for even 4 people to use the OP chat regularly at this point. Anything is better than nothing. 03:02, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Dude! Tinychat were the days! There was also FlockDraw, Cards against Humanity, and OMGPop, if anyone remembers them. But they did not manage to kill the chat entirely. 03:03, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Probably because those rooms were made just as a fun little time with each other. It wasn't strictly for chatting alone. This Skype thing, on the other hand...actually, sometimes I find it annoying whenever I'm in a conversation on Skype and I keep getting messages from the group when I'm not even participating. I have to keep leaving. How is a new user supposed to know we have a Skype, anyways? If they see there's nothing in the chatroom, they'd probably assume that we just don't chat with each other at all. 06:31, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

The fact that skype killed the chat (star) for the most part is pretty undisputed at this point. Arguing about it any more is pointless. If we're going to look for solutions, I'd say trying to bring more new people to chat is one we should consider, as OP chat is just as exclusionary as Skype if people don't know about it. 10:14, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't plan to stop from using the skype no matter what you say (pretty sure all the other active users on skype feel the same as well), but i can understand the problems that come to our comunity with our wiki chat being dead so I will be online as much time as possible on the wiki chat even if i am alone to attract new and old users to join as well. If you really care about the inactivity then do the same even if you are alone cause if everybody says 'i am alone why would i join?' then nobody will join from the very begining. Also before you blame only the skype and its users for the inactivity of the chat and the lack of new users make sure you come on chat yourself cause the only users i see on chat when its not dead is us from the skype + ST.

nada there's a mode called busy or you can just put it on silent from the settings. 11:19, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

Skype feels like that small Wal-Mart that just opened up across from your family market. Now everybody is heading to that and the store you bonded with is closing down. I've actually seen that happen. It's not a pretty sight. 18:02, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't have Wal-Mart in Greece, therefore you didn't make a point. 19:45, August 2, 2014 (UTC)