Forum:Scanlation Allowed Images

It has been bothering me for quite some time now, but there are images that allow scanlations simply to provide information for readers, such as maps and Devil Fruit revisions, while others, such as Dressrosa's map here, retains RAW.

Now, I wanna clear this out for good. Scanlations are now not allowed on this wiki, and I don't think we should let this be an exception. After all, scanlators and subbers alike can have discrepancies in their own variations of translation, causing confusion, such as "Arabasta" instead of "Alabasta".

In a related issue, manga images that have emptied out speech bubbles are not considered RAW, they are just adulterated scanlation images that we use on desperation that we cannot get our hands on the actual RAW yet.

My point of this forum is: eliminate all scanlations, either by replacing them with raw or outright deletion. 04:22, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion Starts Below
If I remember correctly during the forum was specified that those images were exceptions. Although if you propose to remove (replace) them, then it's another story, but my point is they currently aren't against the guidelines.

I agree. 13:02, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

My understanding of the original raws forum is that it allowed for scans to be used when the raw couldn't explain what the image needed to explain (maps, diagrams, etc) or when the raw was poor quality. And even in the case of the latter, usually a good raw will show up eventually to replace it. I think the general attitude has been that blanked scans can be used temporarily until a good raw comes out to replace it. Using scans for a few hours (or days) is the only way for us to get images for several hours, and opens up image editing to more users than those who download the raws.

I think the current policy is fine, it just needs clarifications. 13:53, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

No reason at all to remove them. The images are fine. Blanked out ones are good and can be higher quality than most high quality RAWs. Personally I think we should go for the HIGHEST quality image and not just a blind "Only use RAWs" If we just blanked the scans it would be perfectly fine. SeaTerror (talk) 17:34, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Uh no. Blanking every bubbles is gonna leave very ugly empty spots. And as for the scanlations allowed, some SBS images that have words do not have scanlations, while others do. I just see inconsistencies that makes somewhat of an eyesore. Besides, the translators tend to make mistakes like using "r" instead of "l" for a certain country's name, and there are so many other examples. 18:35, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

That was never a mistake. "very ugly empty spots" That is also just your opinion. Blanked images are actually much better images than most RAWs with low quality text. SeaTerror (talk) 00:25, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Blanked out bubbles means the page has been edited. We want unedited, undiluted images. Otherwise, we can just add whatever we want into it. Here's an example of File:Tyrannosaurus.png: some guy edited this one, and RAW and undiluted. And that Hannyabal post-timeskip image, before it was properly replaced, some guy just filled in the lettered portion with pure black, doctoring it and not adding the buttons on his uniform. 06:15, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, when an image has been doctored beyond just cleaning, of course we should use raws. And have we ever considered getting someone who can make our own english translation images to match our own spellings? That would make things way more consistent for us.

And Yata, I understand you think preferring blanked scans for every image is wrong (and I agree with you there), but where do you stand on using them when there is no raw, or a raw is particularly low quality? 14:14, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

I understand blanking out things when we have no raw, but once we have it, I mean. 15:00, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

The funny thing is how eveery single RAW image on this wikia is edited by Calu or somebody else who can clean. So your "unedited" argument doesn't fit. SeaTerror (talk) 21:20, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

I guess cleaning is one thing we can allow, just to make the images cleaner. An exception, otherwise all other scanlation is not allowed. 02:09, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Cleaning an image doesn't mean its a scanlation. You still ignored how there is absolutely nothing wrong with blanked out images. They are almost always higher quality than the RAW images. SeaTerror (talk) 17:17, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Blanked out images: I see empty gaps in the image like the characters are just mouthing mutely to each other. Besides, when you blank it out, you can see pixels of the deleted dialogue compared to the background of the rest of the image. It stands out. 18:09, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Point is, many SBS images are RAW, while some are scanlations. That is inconsistent. 05:36, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

You can't see anything like that at all. The blanked out images don't have pixels. SeaTerror (talk) 16:53, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Some do. They have these large squared out blank white spots over the darker pixel background. 16:59, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

So I take it we should start filling images up with RAW, for ALL of them unless anime? 06:44, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

No. You're the only one who wants that and you have yet to prove blanked out scans are bad at all. SeaTerror (talk) 17:41, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I can say the same for you on the opposite end. Blanked out speech bubbles are like characters mouthing mutely. And we will NOT use scanlations when possible. 21:22, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with blanking out speech bubbles being a bad thing. I'd rather have something than big white boxes with nothing. 21:48, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I don't really care. I can't read Japanese anyway, so it doesn't matter if they're blank or not. 21:52, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Blanked out look terrible. 21:55, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Blanked Images aren't that bad, we should used them temporary until there is a Raw Available to replace it. -- 22:05, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

When a new chapter is out, we use blanked scanlation images till somebody uploads a raw. 22:08, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well, of course. If there's really no other clean option, we kind of have to use blanks. 22:08, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

But ST make it sound like it's okay (if not insisting) to keep using blanks after the Japanese version comes out. If I remember right, he also said it was okay (if not we should) to use scanlations. I disagree on both claims, blanks are terrible and scanlations have copyright issues. 23:02, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

I'm one to support the usual argument of "if it looks better, let's switch to it". But if the image is infringing copyright, and the scanlator's scan (it's technically stealing to re-use it), then of course it shouldn't be used. I bet most of the scanlations we've used have been stolen without even the scanlator's permission, which is both legally and morally wrong. I heard an argument a while back that we could try having our own original scans. I'm not sure if that was in this forum or another, and I'm not sure if it's been established on, but would it work? We'll have our own scans, it might not be copyright infringement (I'm not sure on that), and we don't really have to change the text. 00:32, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Of course it would still be copyright infringement. The manga picture is the copyright part, not the text. As for using the scanlator's scan without permission, it really doesn't matter at all. There is no legality behind the scanslators, and if they couldn't sue us even if they wanted to. 00:39, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

If we DO use a scanlator's scan, we should at least give credit. I did something like that for the Sprite images. Not that it NEEDS to be required, but more for an honor/moral sort of shite. 00:44, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

They don't look terrible at all. The idea is to use the best quality image possible. That Fujitora image you reverted to RAW was downright awful quality compared to the blanked out scanlation image. Nada if you want to use an argument like that then every single image on the Wikia breaks copyright law. It also isn't stealing to use those images but that's an entirely different argument. If the quality is better then we should use it. SeaTerror (talk) 16:18, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

A blanked out speech bubble is like the character is muttering mutely. 17:11, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * At least Japanese it has words to fill in those spaces, giving the (better) impression that a dialogue is being done. And scanlation sometimes have the freaking watermark blocking the crucial part of the picture. 17:13, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously your arguments to be against blanked out speech are all awful and opinion based. Watermarks can be removed and I'm pretty sure the scanlators that upload to Mangarule don't use them. SeaTerror (talk) 18:04, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Mangarule doesn't use watermarks. Though the raw is usually out by the time they release. 18:22, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

==Poll== Since the talk seems inconclusive and halted, let's just go to the polls to resolve the entire thing once and for all.

''This poll will decide whether we allow scanlations. To vote you must have 300 edits and be a registered user for at least 3 months. The poll is now closed and the options are below. The poll will end in one week, on June 6 at 12:00 UTC.''

Replace all scanlations with RAW

 * 1)  16:00, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  16:09, May 28, 2013 (UTC) There are not many scanlation images on this wiki so it won't be hard.
 * 22:18, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 23:13, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Keep them as they are

 * 22:12, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 02:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (I believe in what image is better.)

Poll Discussion
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Where's this poll coming from? I never saw any test poll or anything. According to the poll rules, we should have had some kind of test poll up before this thing got started. I'm all for resolving this, but I don't like this poll. I don't like either option, and I feel like there could be more, but we need to discuss that first. I move for cancelling this poll. 22:32, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, since nobody was participating in this forum anymore after a few days of talking, even after bumping it, I thought we should just start the polls to get it all over with. 23:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

You can put up a test poll if nobody posts for awhile, but polls shouldn't be started without giving people the opportunity to see what the poll format will be. I really don't like this poll, since it leaves out the option for compromise where we edit/create scanlation images to match our own spellings, etc. 00:18, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I haven't made a poll for a while... So please, do make changes as you see fit. My bad. 00:35, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Then the poll should be closed and redone after discussion. SeaTerror (talk) 01:22, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I'm closing the poll. Not even the "use blanked scanlations if they are higher quality" option was used. This needs to be redone. SeaTerror (talk) 03:11, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, then. Feel free to reset the poll in your (reasonable) terms. 05:14, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

How about one with 3 options: 1) Keep them the same. 2) Replace them all with RAW. 3) Edit or create new scanlations to keep them consistent with our spellings and guidelines.

Does that sound fair? 16:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

No point in creating the extra work. Using blank scans is the best way to go if they are high quality. SeaTerror (talk) 18:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Just add the blank option, so ST will stop mentioning it. We all know it won't win anyways.

Other then that, I support the new poll proposition. 18:31, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah because people love low quality RAW images. Nobody actually cares about quality images on this wiki. SeaTerror (talk) 18:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Some are LQ, but XScar has been cleaning a bunch of them, and they look just as good, if not better then the scans. 18:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

We also shouldn't delete the allowed ones but keep them the same. SeaTerror (talk) 18:42, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

In any case, here's a draft on how I think the poll should be: Conditions are 300 edits for 3 months to vote. How does this sound? 01:57, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Change all the "allowed" scanlations to RAW.
 * 2) Keep them as they are.
 * 3) Make some personal edits that are deemed allowable.

Bad because you refuse to listen to anything related to blanked out scanlations. Quit being so bias. SeaTerror (talk) 02:04, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

There's no point having a blanked out scanlations for maps and diagrams...if they could be blanked they don't belong in the Scanlation Images Allowed category in first place. But for clarification, is this poll just restricted to images in that category, or all scanlated images used across the wiki, including those with blanked text bubbles? 05:21, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

All of them, I guess people just didn't have time to find those blanked out ones in the past. And ST, blanked out scanlation is bull-and-cock. Might as well use some other language scanlation that is available at the first mark, if you put it your way. 07:31, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

You really don't get it. Most of the time the blanked out scanlation images are higher quality than the RAWs. Even AFTER they get cleaned. SeaTerror (talk) 08:10, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Blanked out scanlation is still scanlation. Rules are no scanlation in general. Now we are trying to eliminate the usage of scanlations altogether, so blanked out scanlations are the targets. 16:14, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Stop being a troll. You're own arbitrarily and asinine hatred for scanlations is making you blind and bias. Not to mention the fact that blanked scans are allowed until RAWs are available. The point has always been we should use the highest quality image available and that usually the blanked out scans are higher quality than even cleaned RAWs. SeaTerror (talk) 18:28, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently you're the biased one, against RAW. Blanked out looks like white blots all over the page. Can we just start the polls? 19:02, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

That's a giant lie and you know it. I support the highest quality images only. Even after RAW images are cleaned they are usually awful and the blanked out scan versions are still higher quality. Even a well cleaned RAW is usually beat out by the blanked scan images. You just have some extreme hatred for scanlations and scanlators in general. Maybe they stole your lollipop when you were a baby? Who knows what the arbitrarily reason is. SeaTerror (talk) 19:05, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Keeping on topic, the most problematic images are the ship diagrams for the Going Merry and Thousand Sunny. I can't see an effective way of using the RAWs for them without losing necessary information. All the other images could probably be replaced without too many issues. 19:14, June 30, 2013 (UTC)