Talk:Monet

Name
Harpy isn't part of the name... is like saying "dr." or "centaur" before the name...

Its the same has Dragons his name is the one of the beast and with her its probably the same. 12:47, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

In the dragon's case only the type of animal was given (Dragon), no name so it's not the same case. If the dragon was called "John" the article wouldn't have been named "Dragon John", but simply "John". Another example: we have Eyelashes not "Camel Eyelashes".

http://thumbnails41.imagebam.com/18194/b55fe4181932619.jpg You can clearly see that harpy was not meant as part of her name, but rather as her race. 13:39, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

It's clear her name is Mone.

its clear her name is Harpy Mone as it was in a box and even in the raw the Harpy was written ( link ) 14:15, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Change it back Jaimini626, as the others above said, "Harpy" was meant to show what race she is. Its not part of her name.94.254.85.216 14:36, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Dudes, the manga says 'Harpy Mone' ... Harpy is not a title.. Then change Doc Q to simple 'Q' .. I dont get it..

Dude, look at the raw. It says Harpy in english letters, than her name in Kanji. It's clearly not part of her name. 18:09, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

So? The 'D' on Luffy is in english in the kanji.. Are you saying its not part of his name?

i agree with lpk and x. Her name is Harpy Mone and not Mone 18:31, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Apparently it should Monet Are You Serious 19:13, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

I uploaded her raw infobox for anyone who wants to see. & I agree with Are You Serious, I think her name is either "Monet, Monnet, or Monnett" (variants of a French name, so the 't' is silent).
 * 海賊-姫 19:55, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

@LPK: Doc Q is a pun, if "Doc" was the profession, than it would have been "Doctor" like "Doctor Vegapunk". Quite often the name itself is a reference to the profession or other traits in another language.


 * Another example: if Harpy is part of the name then Gonbe should be named "Cat Gonbe" o Kokoro "Station Master Kokoro".

I'd say the "Harpy" is something like an epithet that names her race. I don't think it belongs to the name. We should make a poll to determine how to name the page and end the re-naming war. 20:25, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

I think Monet would be best. We did the same thing with the Bellamy Pirate Muret, and that's worked out just fine. As for harpy, it isn't anything, it's just saying her species, like with Gonbe. Remember after he was introduced as Cat Gonbe, there was the disclaimer, "although he's really a rabbit". No need for harpy. 20:55, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

I've already left a message for Jopie and Klobis, they'll settle this matter. No need for a poll. 22:32, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Animal?
I can't help seeing her more like a possible ability user who transformed both legs and arms just like Marco did in Chapter 557 to attack Akainu. Her species hasn't simply been classified yet. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 18:25, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

If we talk about speculations, I rather see her along with the centaurs as an experiment of some sorts (Brownbeard was a normal human after all). I am a bit hesitating to classify them as "animals" since if they are indeed guinea pigs, then they are not really animals, but let's wait and see.

Make what you will of this pic in ch 666.

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/666/6

I personally found it interesting how Monet is seen not wearing the "artificial legs" that Caesar made and how it looks like she was not paralyzed from her lower body like the rest of the prisoners.

109.228.163.199 19:02, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 671 may have given us the first hint that Monet could be a Zoan. Law said that he wanted to borrow her powers, granted though he could have meant powers as in her science knowledge or something like that. Still I found it interesting.94.254.85.175 12:49, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

If she really was a Zoan, then why not just transform back to human form to make reading books easier, rather then having to use her wings (which I'd imagine to be quite uncomfortable)? No, it's more likely he was just referring to her ability of flight thanks to the wings, or even her intellectual ability. 12:55, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Wait for it to be explained.

Law used the word "Nouryoku" (能力), which has pretty much always been used in the context of Devil Fruit abilities, and put emphasis on the word (with the little dots Japanese people put on the side). This isn't proof that she's a Zoan, but it's likely to be at least some kind of Devil Fruit. Zodiaque 13:03, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

As for your question KuroAshi on why Monet would not just transform back to human form if she really was a Zoan, maybe she's just like Caesar and prefers to be in a transformed state.94.254.85.175 13:08, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

"Law used the word "Nouryoku" (能力), which has pretty much always been used in the context of Devil Fruit abilities" Pics or it didn't happen. SeaTerror 16:20, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/671/nouryoku.png Is this good enough? Zodiaque 22:38, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

You said it has always been used for context of Devil Fruit abilities. I'm still waiting for those pics. SeaTerror 22:59, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

You ignored my use of the words "pretty much", and the fact that he put special emphasis on the word. Also, uploading the entire manga would be in breach of copyright. If you find an exception let me know, otherwise stop trolling. Zodiaque 00:59, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

You're still going to have to provide proof then. Just because you say its true doesn't mean it is. SeaTerror 02:04, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

SeaTerror, Zodiaque has provided more than enough proof. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't true, so back off. I've heard about Nouryoku being used to described Devil Fruit abilities like that, so I can attest that he knows what he's talking about. Chill out and trust people once in a while. 06:09, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Antagonist
Since Monet is CC's subordinate shouldn't she be in the Antagonists category as well?

09:07, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Tashigi is with Smoker too, but she is not an antagonist.

Mone vs Monet
Can somebody please clear this. Many translator seem to use Monet over Mone. Mangastream used Mone, but now they switched to Monet. Since the majority of translators are with Monet, I not sure which one to follow. However I know for a fact that Carlos (cnet) uses Mone. Cnet is the most trusted translator next to Stephan. But since Stephan is with VIZ now, it is just cnet. I understand in French Monet is spoken with a silent "t", so Mone. But not sure if our Mone/Monet is based on a French name. --- Billa

Cnet would be more trusted translator than Stephan since scanlators generally translate more directly. Either way the name doesn't really matter. Just wait for Oda to romanize it. SeaTerror 18:04, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Member of "Joker's" crew as well?
So Vergo turns out to be a vice admiral + head of the G5 base but is in truth a pirate member of Joker's crew, Joker being Doflamingo. I was thinking, does this all mean that Monet is also part of Doflamingo's crew since she is allied with Vergo and all? What do you think? I suppose we should just wait with writing anything until Oda officialy confirms or de-confirms it.81.170.200.236 12:04, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Obviously she is. Vergo sent her as a spy. Means he trust her. But to begin with, I don't think they have usual crew setup. More like a organization. BlackHair 12:50, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Astrologist Monet?
Have listened to Greg theories about her on the One Piece Podcast(ep 05-22). She seem to be infatuated with the stars and the moon if you take a closer look at her scenes. Books with star and clip(eclipse) on it. How she was normal in the past, and she willingly got the Wing modifications. Her name and glasses being an allusion to Monets Starry Night painting.

Greg is nuts so no. SeaTerror 03:03, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

I have never seen a bigger pile of bullshit in my entire life. 03:13, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Fucking bullshit, I'm going on to Facebook and calling this liar out. 04:16, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Transformation
In her ability section it was said that Caesar stated that she can transform. Can someone show me where he said it, cause I don't remember that at all FirePit (talk) 03:18, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

nevermind, I saw it now. FirePit (talk) 03:28, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

(In)distinct laughter

 * Like many other characters, Monet has a distinct laugh, "Ufufufufu".

But ain't that only a pretty much standard female chuckle? -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 07:00, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yep. An AWC kept putting the line back in despite multiple users removing it a while ago. 07:34, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Devil Fruit - or not?
Okay, Redon from APForums/Mangahelpers provided a RAW, and in that Luffy asked Monet the question about the "ability" by using the standard word for people who have Devil Fruit abilities Oda has used ever since the Arlong Arc: 能力者.

And going by the formula that Oda hasn't changed the usage of that word, it is pretty much confirmed that Kamakura is based on a Devil Fruit even though it's Luffy that asks Monet, and not Monet that introduces herself... The only questions that remain are "which one?" and "which type?" -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 17:55, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

While I would guess Paramecia, it's better to wait on specifics like that. For now we should just put that she has a Devil Fruit and what we've seen it do. In short, keep the section the way it is now until we learn more. 18:38, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

she is a devil fruit user .. !Devilchild~Nico~Robin (talk) 02:41, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Assuming the wings are Law's doing, her transformation must be linked to this power. Kamakura is hard snow or something, and that is the one thing you wouldn't look twice at on the lab side of PH, allowing her to follow Law. So I'm going with Snow Logia. However I'd definately wait for more proof before we go saying what's power and what's not. After all, the power might be her wings not the wall...13th madman (talk) 20:31, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

According to the latest ch. 685, Monet is confirmed to be a Logia (holy crap, our first canon female Logia user!).94.254.95.13 09:46, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Monet also is able to create blizzards, isn't she? I think we have no add it to the articles. Aoshi shigamori (talk) 20:45, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Harpy Species?
Given that Monet was given wings &amp; talons via Law's devil fruit power as opposed to being born from a harpy, she doesn't really class as part of a harpy species does she? I move that it be removed from her description &amp; that the harpy species be removed from the species list. One might think that because she has the wings &amp; talons then she classes as a harpy, now, but you have to remember, according to what we've seen on Law's power thus far, she still has human feet and arms somewhere &amp; some bird is missing its wings &amp; talons somewhere, ergo both are still the same species in possession of the same limbs, however removed from their bodies said limbs are.Petronec (talk) 04:17, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Dead
Now, before someone says "who knows" and put her in the Kinemon situation, let's see the obvious: stabbed in the heart, collapsed and definitely dead. No arguments, right? I'm really getting tired of these edit wars, don't go saying she's a Logia so she survived the stab or something like that. 07:40, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree. If her logia powers had activated, she wouldn't have spit out blood. She's done. 07:43, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. If she's not dead, Oda must really work hard to bring her back to life. She's definitely dead.

A bird may be able to survive an atom bomb, but I think a stab to the heart is fatal. Even the scene gives the mood that she died. She's dead. Definitely. 07:47, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, yes. She was stabbed clean through the heart. She's dead. &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 07:50, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

We may have an issue..

http://www.cracked.com/article_19698_7-deadly-things-you-wont-believe-most-people-survive.html

07:58, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oh come on! I know it's rare for Oda to show a kill onscreen, especially not in a flashback. But 1/3 chance of survival... aren't we going too scientifically on this situation? 08:01, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

What is so wrong in adding that she simply got stabbed in the heart and collapsed? Why do we need to assume she is dead? I thought we don't like assumptions. - Racht  08:03, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

She's dead until confirmed otherwise (which is unlikely). &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 08:04, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well Yata, it's also pretty weird that she would die just like this, and then the scene switches to Law smirking. Doesn't really fit the writing style of dead character moments. I still think she's dead, but.. still. 08:08, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Gal, if I had a nickel for every time you said "but...still" I'd be a clothesless man &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 08:12, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

He smirked because he scammed Caesar, he could never know that Monet died just at that moment.

Well it doesn't matter what Law is thinking at that moment Sewil, what matters is Oda's style. 08:15, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Oda's style? You mean "alive until proven otherwise?" SeaTerror (talk) 08:16, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

No no. Just the way he wrote the apparent "death". 08:18, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree it's not Oda's style to kill off characters like this but I believe Oda might be trying to prove how really tough the New World is or maybe just it's an introduction to Doflamingo's real power.

Before the New World, Oda rarely kills. Ace's death might have been the first significant kill to set off that downward spiral, and now Smiley, Monet and Zephyr joins in confirmed deaths. 08:35, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Lol. Smiley.

Monet is a confirmed death? Did you use 1.21 gigawatts of electricity to find that out? SeaTerror (talk) 08:38, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well. Zephyr doesn't count, but yeah Smiley. 08:42, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, why don't you try using that 1.21 gigawatts to shock some sense into anyone who believes Monet is not dead? Just saying... 08:44, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

The point is that Oda operates under alive until proven otherwise. There are numerous examples of this starting with characters such as Pell and going on throughout the series. It is stupid to say Monet is dead when we already know how Oda operates. SeaTerror (talk) 08:49, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

There is proof that Monet is dead. As you can clearly see, you don't see her alive. If I've learned one thing from Dawkins, it's that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. It's logical. Don't try to argue. 08:52, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Aww cmon Nada. Even though I agree that Monet is dead, that is flawed reasoning. "I don't see Garp alive, therefore he died of old age".

Just saying how your statement isn't as logical as you put it. 09:00, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Twas a joke. Franky, I thought this whole discussion was a joke. It's hard to take it seriously anymore. 09:04, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

In any case, she died unless she jumps back up. Period. 09:05, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

You mean like Brownbeard? SeaTerror (talk) 09:06, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Brownbeard was never actually seen getting killed.

(Edit conflict) He got blasted, not his head popped off. And if you're gonna be like this, then why not say Ace did not truly die, but climbed out of his grave and continuously pirated in secrecy? 09:11, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

There are only a few named non-flashback characters Oda has openly killed. Ace was one of them. SeaTerror (talk) 09:18, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Who's to actually say Pell just trained his pet eagle to fly with bombs and sacrifice himself while he sits at home writing NaruSasu fanfiction?

Now I'm just bullcrapping. Monet got stabbed, the feel of the scene makes it look like death, and Oda is implying that she is no more. If she lives, then Oda is bullcrapping us. But until he does point that out, let's just keep Monet in. It's too dramatic and too "what-a-twisty" to not be so. 09:19, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

She's dead. CC stabbed with intent to kill. Money wasn't able to detect CC stabbing her, so she couldn't have used her powers. She bled out the mouth, collapsed, and became unable to finish off herself by blowing everything up. She's dead. 17:47, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

She's dead. Anyone who disagrees should stop thinking retroactively. If we handle deaths a la carte, it will sharply cut arguments like this. We can't be scared of plot twists. She's dead until shown otherwise, I don't care what the odds of a person surviving a stabbing are. 18:29, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

We should always handle things the way Oda has always done it and that is keeping almost all characters alive. SeaTerror (talk) 16:45, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Mr. 11 17:02, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also Tsumegeri Guards Rayleigh92 (talk) 17:10, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

And let's not forget the dozens of people outside the lab. 17:14, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Here. See for yourself how Oda "keeps every character alive".

Also.. Killer Giant. 17:48, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

The hell are we discussing this? She's dead. She got stabbed in the heart. She coughed up blood. She collapsed. If Oda whips up a total bullshit of how she survived a stab to the heart, in the later chapters then we put her as alive. Simple as that.

Unless you want to debate about whether Whitebeard and Ace are still alive? 18:00, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

I thought this was done ages ago. She's dead, duh. 18:37, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah it's done Yata. Seaterror is the only one really opposing it. 18:38, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

He always does... 23:19, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

"Keeping almost all characters alive" somehow = "keeps every character alive". Pell, Arlong, Brownbeard, Bon Kurei. If you want to claim coughing up blood = automatic death then I'm pretty sure Zoro had worst injuries than Monet throughout the series. SeaTerror (talk) 23:27, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Hey ST. Is Killer Giant confirmed dead? For all we know, he ate the a Yomi Yomi no Mi variation and is there to scare people. 23:31, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Try getting stabbed in the heart and then survive. If Oda wanted her to live, he wouldn't have 'killed' her this way. Now if Oda make her survive this fatal strike, I will lose all my faith to One Piece cause simply no one can die peacefully around here... 109.242.223.142 00:38, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

ST, if you're going to make fruitless arguments based on pure personal opinion alone (that being "Oda's style"), at least try to make them believable enough.

Monet is dead. End of story. &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 01:35, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

was posted at APforums. Discuss. 02:10, December 29, 2012 (UTC) 02:10, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

It looks like he stabbed her heart. What's there to discuss? 02:26, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, after realizing I could actually scroll down, it's completely speculative to say he missed, especially by that much. 02:44, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Coffee I really doubt you actually read my last comment if you think everything I said is "fruitless opinion" Also DP scroll down where? All i see is the image. SeaTerror (talk) 03:32, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

It took me to the post on AP, not just the picture. I guess it changed or something. What Coffee means is that situations like these must be treated individually and not have previous similar situations as points of reference. Treat the past as if it doesn't exist when it comes to characters dying. 03:42, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

For the love of... SeaTerror ALWAYS argues no matter what every other people says. Tell us why is it so hard to accept the obvious: Caesar stabbed her directly in the heart, killing her. 08:26, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

So everyone agrees she is dead, and yet you hold back because a user that disagrees with every forum and talkpage here in this wiki says she can be alive. 109.242.223.142 13:46, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

How are we holding back? She's in the dead characters category and it's been written into her history. 18:39, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Monet's heart was in a floating cube half a mile from the body it was pumping blood through, why are you guys attempting to apply logic to this situation? Monet's heart wasn't even stabbed very deeply. Whitebeard was shot 150 times, stabbed 50 times, shot with 30 cannonballs, had half of his face melted off, and he still basically died of old age. How can you possibly say with any confidence that a One Piece character is dead before it's been officially declared? Kaidou (talk) 10:50, January 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sadly, people on this wiki just seem to hate sticking to facts.

Which fact would that be? SeaTerror (talk) 18:48, February 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * The facts: she got stabbed in the heart, coughed up blood, and collapsed. No need to go further.


 * there is no proof monet is dead. none at all. just because someone falls of a bike doesn't mean they MUST have broken an arm or leg 96.55.178.237 23:42, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * So just because somebody got impaled through the heart, collapsed, and can't move means they're not dead? 00:14, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that just because she collapsed doesn't mean she is dead. Yes she got stabbed                through the heart, yes she did collapse. But this is a fictional world with nothing is impossible. We know only what we see- and that is: heart is stabbed, monet collapsed and for that one page she is unresponsive. For a wiki that puts up information based on fact, I don't believe it is the right thing to do to put up things based on inferences. I'm not saying Monet is alive or dead. I am just saying all we know is that something happened that probably killed Monet- not DID kill Monet My arguement is to change deceased to 'presumed deceased' because we don't know for sure whether or not she is gone for good. Changes could then later be made to alive or deceased when it is formally and explcitly presented to us in the manga. I hope I'm being clear here, this is my first time contributing to something like this. 96.55.178.237 01:51, February 10, 2013 (UTC)jo
 * I'm just saying that just because she collapsed doesn't mean she is dead. Yes she got stabbed                through the heart, yes she did collapse. But this is a fictional world with nothing is impossible. We know only what we see- and that is: heart is stabbed, monet collapsed and for that one page she is unresponsive. For a wiki that puts up information based on fact, I don't believe it is the right thing to do to put up things based on inferences. I'm not saying Monet is alive or dead. I am just saying all we know is that something happened that probably killed Monet- not DID kill Monet My arguement is to change deceased to 'presumed deceased' because we don't know for sure whether or not she is gone for good. Changes could then later be made to alive or deceased when it is formally and explcitly presented to us in the manga. I hope I'm being clear here, this is my first time contributing to something like this. 96.55.178.237 01:51, February 10, 2013 (UTC)jo


 * She was stabbed, in the heart, and we saw her go down. We have a cause, a body, and no reason for doubt (btw, "this is One Piece" isn't a reason). Those are the three criteria we look for before calling someone dead. That's why we haven't declared Vergo dead. No body. If she's alive later, then so be it, but until that happens, she's dead. We know we saw the heart get stabbed and she fell over after coughing up blood. That's all we need. If Caesar nicked it and she fell over, then you might have a better chance. But he didn't. She's dead, so drop the subject. 04:03, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems I wasn't clear enough, I'll try to put it in more simple terms: I am not advocating whether or not she is alive or dead. I brought up what we know (stab/collapse/no response). I then said it can be inferred/presumed she is dead, the manga doesn't explicity tell us this or as of yet follow up her status. We can say she is probably dead due to the premises, but not with certainty like Ace+Whitebeard. BTW, the "One Piece reason" is used to simply say that things can happen in One Piece that doesn't/cannot happen in real life (logia, haki, etc)= reason for doubt. Your criterian would fit everyone who was on the ground during the Marineford War- we can't say they are dead- but probably dead... I am simply giving my opinion on the conflict here, this is a talk page. I don't care if you disagree, I just hope you understand what I'm trying to say :) 96.55.178.237 20:45, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand your point and my belief is the same as yours.Movieseeker (talk) 13:42, February 10, 2013 (UTC)MovieseekerMovieseeker (talk)


 * The fact that she is a logia doesn't change anything.Ceasar stabed the heart because he thought it belonged to Smoker (who is also a logia) with the intension to kill him.Monet can't be alive. 14:03, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I still don't get why it is so important to you all to state unconfirmed facts in the articles. We know that she got stabbed in the heart, coughed up blood, and collapsed. Let's just state these facts and leave the conclusion to the reader. Stating that she's dead makes it look like we know more, but we don't. It gives no information to the reader (it's quite the contrary actually).

All right. Everyone let's stop talking about this and wait for the next chapters. I already held my opinion to myself all this time. I am also sick of listening to these. I will wait patiently for the future chapters. I hope this is the last comment to make, please no more and keep your beliefs to yourself and see the next progress of this story. Movieseeker (talk) 15:23, February 10, 2013 (UTC) 15:22, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I kind of agree Sff. It technically is speculation. 20:47, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

It is. We shouldn't allow any speculation even if its the most likely thing. Like how I remove Doflamingo from the Devil Fruit article or whatever. SeaTerror (talk) 21:39, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Then what do we have that says she's alive or even might be? (and let's stick to this case only and not draw on previous events, ok?) 22:01, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

All we need to say is that she collapsed. There's no evidence for either side of dead or alive, other than speculation. 22:03, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

So getting stabbed in the heart isn't evidence? 22:29, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

"Villain" definition
I don't edit often at all, but careful with the use of "villain".

Every pirate is a criminal in One Piece, therefore, a villain.

I think you mean antagonist... And even then she isn't the first to die. :-/ One-Winged Hawk (talk) 20:05, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

What other antagonists have died? 20:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Bluejam, Pudding Pudding, literally every evil zombie. 20:10, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and that Marine who was on the Baratie for like 10 seconds. What was his name? Lines? 20:11, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Bluejam isn't confirmed dead. Pudding Pudding didn't antagonize the straw hats, and Lines never antagonized them either. Try again. 20:12, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I believe she is the first female character to die onscreen, so just say that and leave "villain" out of it. 21:18, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Otohime... 21:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops. Still the first female character to die not in a flashback. 21:25, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently all criminals are villains now. Also, zombies don't count and Lines is not confirmed. I'll laugh when Monet is revealed to be alive anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 21:28, January 13, 2013 (UTC)