File talk:Trafalgar D. Water Law Portrait.png/Archive 1

Which One?
The image uploaded by Genocyber showing Law's face with a frontal look would be preferable here. Otherwise the two anime images uploaded from YazzyDream would be great alternatives. After all, Law hasn't changed significantly after the time skip so it's okay to use them. MasterDeva (talk) 00:05, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

The colored image is more attractive. It doesn't obscure or change his facial features, nor does it change who it is. The only real difference between the two is that one is colored and the other is frontal. However, the frontal's angle has such little difference that it hardly matters, so you might as well go with the colored. Besides, the anime isn't far from introducing Law, so there's little point for this war. 00:46, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I only stated my opinion for reference, since I haven't noticed any flaw in particular either image is fine by me. MasterDeva (talk) 01:06, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * The other image doesn't have a flaw, but the colored is better simply because it is colored, in my opinion. 01:09, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

Manga vs. Anime
Weird how I didn't realize this before.

We need to use the manga, since Law's hair in the anime is black, while his hair in the manga is blue. 08:43, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

I do prefer the manga image but his hair color is a minor detail. 08:51, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say it's important enough, and the manga has good detail and quality to allow it. 08:53, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify something, I like this image. I hate this one. 08:58, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Meh, they're both the same quality and detail wise. I do prefer the other one though, but am fine with the current one. 08:59, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

The one Hime uploaded is really bad. 09:11, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Not really. It's from the cover of Chapter 693. 09:12, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Staw, if you look at the March 9, 2012 edit, you'll noticed that I was the 1 who originally uploaded the image you like. I only cropped the 1 you hate (December 18 2012).

Anyway, I'm fine with either 1 as well, but we usually go for frontal unless we have a good reason not to use it.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 09:30, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I know that >_> 09:34, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Even though the blue hair is a detail I would ideally like to see kept, the anime version looks better as an overall portrait since the viewing angle shows Law looking directly at the screen and it's not viewed from a top down angle like the one from the New Age poster and not off to the side in the latest one. M4ND0N (talk) 16:04, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Since he canonically has the blue hair, it's best to have the blue hair portrait. The anime image is non-canon. And the 693 image has a great angle and great quality. 16:05, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

The New Age version shows him with black hair too, but Oda drew and colored that as well so does the color make it non-canon? Besides I don't really think Law's hair is blue in the manga shot, it just has a lighter shade than the anime version but it's still black. Minor detail in my opinion, I don't think a lighter shade of black is worth changing the portrait.. And I disagree, the ideal portrait should have Law looking at the screen imo. We changed Akainu's portrait because everyone thought him looking down slightly wasn't as good a viewing angle for the port, and changed it to one with his eyes looking directly at the screen. M4ND0N (talk) 16:15, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's blue. Zoom in on the new age image and you can see blue hair. He is looking at the screen in the New Age image. You were all about canon on the ace dies image, so why not here? 16:16, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

That's because Ace's necklace appeared on his tombstone so for plot reasons I felt like it was important to show on the photo where he dies. With that being said, we do use a manga photo for Robin's portrait for the color of her eyes so I guess since we've done it this way before, it only makes sense to use the manga photo less we have a double standard. M4ND0N (talk) 17:29, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

well the main idea is that we can see law's face, thats the main idea of the image. hair is minor detial. quite frankly i never noticed the blue hair until the new age chapter cover with law and kinemon with the crew. i just hope this isn't because galaxy is having another fot about the manga vs the anime, he's had his fits about it lately. but what ever works, as long as it's good quality and we see his face, because quit frankly i assume we aren't all hair stylists here and that we all just want to see laws face. if galaxy is raising an argument of where the hair is "canon" or not i find that hilarious. AsuraDrago (talk) 19:19, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Everybody here wants to use the "canon" image. Oda's drawing is better anyways. It's sad that you can't appreciate the source material, and resort to calling people that actually love the manga's superior art style "hilarious" 19:22, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

^What Galaxy said. 05:48, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well of course canon material is important, but his hair? really? its such a minor detail. besides it looks black in the manga and the only time we see his hair dark blue is on the color cover "new age" and the new supernova time-skip manga cover. the onl way you'll see his hair color is if you look super close at it. the point being is that the current image being used is not of good quality. the anime image is perfect, its clear and HQ. thats all that matters. it's what is best for the wiki we have to take into consideration. AsuraDrago 04:26, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

His mouth line isn't even fully drawn in that anime version. 04:26, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I just remembered; his hair's black on volume 69 cover.


 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 04:35, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Interesting, and weird. I still find the manga image to be better drawn. 04:37, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Settle this goddamn forum before we have our umpteenth argument about a "canon" portrait. ''The forum must be resolved, and if this goes to a poll before that does, then we've shown how inept we are at making lasting decisions. 13:44, August 3, 2013 (UTC)''

That's a useless forum. 08:05, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Slight difference in hair color doesn't matter. The far better image for use as a portrait comes from the anime. It's completely frontal, and has significantly better art quality/image quality. 16:51, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

More people have voiced their opinion of wanting the manga here, so I'd say it has to stay on that until we go to a poll or more people post.

As for you points, no, Color Scheme matters. The anime image's art quality leaves much to be desired, since Law looks "bored", his mouth is not completely drawn, along with his nose. All this, while the manga image is of perfect quality, a perfect facial expression, drawn by the author, canon, better detailed, and not drawn by some random animator. If you want completely frontal, there's the cover of Chapter 693, which is the same detail as the other manga image, and better then the anime image (the new cover uploaded by XScar is without smudges and is of very high quality.) Here it is. 17:00, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Now here's the thing here: we see on vol 69 law's hair is BLACK galaxy. BLACK. then on the new age cover his hair is a very dark blue. its just barely noticible unless you edit the lighting of the image. or in the recent manga cover the dark blue becomes a little bit brighter. so in the end: it truly is not an issue, its not that big of a deal. when we see him in the manga it looks pitch black. who ever expected that after awhile the hair color would change a second time, turning into a very dark blue. you can't really tell a difference quite frankly.

as for the portrait, lets just use the current anime image. for starters its higher quality compared to any manga image out there. the detail is perfect and since oda intented at first for it to be black and changes it on and off, hair color is of little concern. the image needs to be clear and HQ, the anime image does that, all of the previous manga images are not even devent quality.

AsuraDrago 03:26, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, the anime image has better quality. 06:45, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

The anime image is not higher quality. Look at his mouth, it's not fully drawn, and neither is his nose. As I explained above, the manga image from Chapter 693 is of better detail, quality, and drawn by the author. 10:05, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Even in the image from 693 where his sideburns are blue, Law's beard is definitely black. This is inconsistent with every other coloration we've seen, furthering the point that color doesn't matter. And because the beard is black, you can hardly tell where Law's coat begins and his beard ends, making it bad for a portrait. Also, while in the anime Law's mouth may be 80% drawn, the 693 image has one simple line drawn for his nose. So I would argue that the anime image is more fully drawn. Drawn by the author =/= "Perfect". 12:03, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Color matters, always. Don't disregard the author's work.

I can see where his coat begins, so that's not an issue. His coat covers his beard in the anime version by the way. Actually no, the nose is fully drawn in the manga version, while in the anime, it leaves me questioning what his nose looks like at all. It just looks like a bone, with a hole (the nostrils look awful). There's also the fact that the anime image is not how Law looks (he looks bored). His mouth also being a half drawn line is an issue, and should not be overlooked. This is due to the art style of that animator (it's Nakatani). Either find a anime image that's closer to Oda's style, or the manga is better. Drawn by the author = Perfect :) 13:34, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Obviously Oda's art is perfect, but you can't deny the anime's detail. thats just the current art style. toei goes through different stages of animation and the current one is great. there may be a few animation goofs once and a while, but the current anime one suits good for now until we can make another one. of course oda makes mistakes as well, but rarely. once in awhile you can see a drawing goof, but nothing major. if his nose is drawn with only one line, its no big deal, as if his mouth may be not drawn fully but thats not a problem either, its the animation style for anime for mouths to be like that at times.

the main idea is that we have an HQ anime image, which we have at the moment. the past manga images haven't been the best. if we want a better one, we can compile a gallery of different law portraits from the anime and make a selection from there. i've already made several that i still have saved and some recent ones.

AsuraDrago 00:41, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Get a better anime image, or I support the manga. You won't change my mind with the current image. 00:48, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

I have several so don't worry, i'll present them whenever the others are in agreement on what anime image to use. will get a better image in time, the current one is just fine. right now you are the only one fighting for the poor quality manga image, to which the others prefer anime. your opinion alone won't make the final decision, so i'm not worried about you since you don't care for the anime anyway. AsuraDrago 03:02, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Except plenty of people have said they want the manga more (Hime uploaded manga, staw too). The current one is not fine, due to faulty art (as I said, mouth is not fully drawn, it's not what Law looks like, etc). Stop disregarding other's opinions other then your own. 11:39, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Oh please galaxy no one wants to hear that. no one ever said yours, or others opinions didn't matter. its just that in your case you don't like the anime in general and anything anime for you is instant hate and negativity. the anime detail is fine, if there is an inch off the mouth so what, thats just fine. its a common thing for anime art style. this image IS what law looks like. besides we may as well consider these images canon, seeing as how all the way from law's first appearance up until the end of punk hazard his hair was black. i wonder why oda made it a dark shade of blue, no one could tell until the new age color spread. maybe he mixed up the colors and just rolled with it. either way the image is just fine, we can update with a newer anime image in time, or use a current one from the selectioni have saved on a folder on my desktop. i've been making a selection of law icons for my own use and may as well put them to use. AsuraDrago 03:17, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Man, please work on your grammar if you want people to read those wall of texts. It's really hard to read that.

As for your comment, no, it's not fine, which has been proven by this discussion. It doesn't matter if it's "common for the anime to have art faults". That just proves my point even further that we shouldn't use anime when they exist, so thanks. Nice speculation on Oda's hair color choices, but either way, his hair is dark blue, not black. Show your new images then. ANYTHING is better then the current one that's uploaded right now, that has an incomplete mouth, doesn't look like Law, and that's outright awful. 03:21, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

My god galaxy, just calm down. your starting an issue for no reason. my grammar is fine, you don't need to be so petty over it. and even so the fact that you have to pick at it and avoid the main topic at hand goes to show just how much you are not only start another argument with me on a simple talk page, but on how you have nothing else to back your statement with. all you do is repeat the same facts that don't apply to the subject here. his hair may look dark blue, but his goatee is black. his hair was dark until the punk hazard arc ended, and we are using a screenshot from that arc. it will suit just fine. the color scheme is hardly an issue. so can you just not be like this on the talk page? AsuraDrago 04:26, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

You keep failing to address the issues of art, and continue to say "it's fine". That is not an argument. You also continue to insult people's ideas on the talk page, which is not okay. Do you seriously think you're contributing new ideas when you repeat the same things, and disregard others' opinions because you think too highly of yourself or something? Color Scheme DOES matter, and is the reason that I see that Hime and Staw reverted it back to the manga in the first place. 11:20, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Now your just putting words in my mouth. no ones ideas are being insulted, thats just you saying that to cover yourself. i've already stated the reasonings but you just repeat the same few words and deny whats going on at the moment. if you would take the time to read maybe you'd understand. your insults are not helping the issue over the image or your own personal matters with me. your straying off the topic at hand to get after me right now is not working well with the issue. you keep speaking as though you have the final say in what image is going to be used, you do not have such authority. so if you could focus on the issue here and stop staring problems with me (as usual) it would be appreciated. But since you failed to listen to reason the first time i may as well talk about the high-points again.

Color scheme's are important obviously. But law has been an odd case. since his first debut his hair has been pitch black. all the way up to the punk hazad arc's end on the new age cover it was changed to dark blue, while his goatee is still black. maybe oda made a mistake, or law dyed his hair. in this case we have been using a screen shot from the punk hazard are while his hair was still black. can you honestly say while reading chapter 692 that you coud tell law's hair was a very dark blue from reading the manga pages? Its not like the anime gave him blonde hair or anything, they are sticking to the original color scheme used since chapter 498. if its blue now its blue (unless oda changes it again).

But the main idea here is that we want to get HQ portraits of law, and every manga image used is fuzzy and has poor quality. i already have several and suggested that we pick from my gallery on my desktop saved, or wait until the punk hazard arc ends and get some choices from there. i am awaiting a response from the others, not just you. since everyone else here should have a say in this. AsuraDrago 16:41, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Bump! I agree, the manga one is of very poor quality. I also have a problem with the fact he is pulling a strange face and looks demented. The issue with his hair being black in the anime and everything doesn't make any difference because his hair looks black enough on the manga. As shown by Law's hair being black on one manga cover and blue on another, there could have been some sort of quality or colour problem meaning the end result was a bluer hair colour. Anyway the whole point is the anime one is better. 13:39, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. besides.....i wonder if oda mixed up the colors for laws hair. thats the one thing that bugs me. he was black haired all the way until punk hazard ended. maybe he dyed it? well since the anime version is better, we could get another version if the current one has any issues. AsuraDrago 16:46, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

His face didn't change over the timeskip. If it did, we would have two portraits for him. Why can't we can't we also get a decent image of him Pre-Timeskip to be used here as well? 13:19, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

The anime version is drawn quite good and the camera angle is perfect. I see no obvious reason why we should replace it with the manga version, unless we get something better from Oda in the future. MasterDeva (talk) 22:18, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Let's have a poll. This discussion has been going on for almost three months. 03:33, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, we are coming no closer to a decision in the three months we have been discussing this. 16:09, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, we'll poll it then. I'm a bit too lazy to make up a complete test poll now, so I'll just say what I'd put on it. Is everyone alright with the standard thing we've been doing for image polls? 1 week, 3 options: The most recent anime, and the two most recent manga versions? And I'll start it in 3 days if there are no issues. 17:20, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm fine with it, that format has seemed to work so far. 18:58, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yep. 03:48, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

well lets poll it, if you really think its needed. but generally people seem to prefer the anime, but whatever you think is best. what about my current profile pic? would that work as an option? AsuraDrago 04:38, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps, but the size would have to be larger. 10:39, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

If we're going to have an anime as an option, this should be the anime one. The mouth isn't completely drawn when closed. 12:39, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Asura's avatar makes a good portrait, since the collar of his coat covers his goatee. I guess the version Nada linked is better. Do we have the best quality possible for that version though? And what about getting a version that's more in between mouth completely open and completely shut? Would that allow for a mouth that is more fully drawn. I'll push back the poll until we get some answers to those questions. 13:22, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

What's the problem with a mouth open, anyways? It doesn't seem like any problem at all. Sometimes it makes an image better, in my opinion. 23:03, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I have a portrait i made awhile ago, i'm going to upload it in place of the new one to try it out. so let me see what you all think of it. AsuraDrago 02:45, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

galaxy already changed it (no surprise) but what did you guys think? at least the mouth is fully drawn. AsuraDrago 04:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I have to say that I prefer the image that Galaxy reverted to. But we are going to have a poll soon. So we'll just have to see the results. 07:17, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

I also think the best anime version so far is the open mouth version of the current one. But I'd still appreciate it if someone would look for one with a less-open mouth. Then we can start the poll. 13:48, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

ok, sofar we have the current one in the poll, what other ideas do we have? why not look at previous ones uploaded? if i change the current one to show another example or possible poll option, i'd like it if you'd all look at it before galaxy reverts it again. the last one i uploaded had the mouth drawn fully and the coat collar doesn't cover anything. of course i have others made for such an occasion if you all want me to upload for an example. AsuraDrago 16:23, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * In the case of this image, we have a policy on images used in edit wars. In this case, the image must stay on the current anime version until the poll is over. People are welcome to upload other alternatives to show people, but they should revert back to the current version once they've done so. It must be shown in the articles this way. That is why Galaxy is reverting to the anime version even though he supports the manga.


 * And to clarify, by "one with a less-open mouth" I just mean another screenshot from the same scene as the current one. One that is between this one and this one in terms of mouth-openness. 17:58, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, so as long as i revert the file back to the original after uploading the examples it will be fine? i have two i'd like to show. AsuraDrago 17:12, September 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's fine. 21:06, September 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Done, uploaded two others i made and put the original back up. take a look and see what you think. the mouths are drawn fully at least. did you check out the one galaxy called disgusting? its got a full view of his face and a full mouth. AsuraDrago 22:22, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

Neither of them are square, and they both have pretty bad angles. 22:49, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

The extreme angles of them make them unacceptable for use as portraits. 12:57, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

We can easily adjust the shape and make them square. the angles are fine, we've had worse and the details of the past few were good. we have to look at every possible choice before polling. AsuraDrago 04:30, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

The angles aren't "fine". 18:08, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Of course they are galaxy. You see, what we have is a large assortment of image to pick from, all ranging from different scenes from the anime of slightly different angles. Some are more liked than others and some are better than others. We have to look at every option we have before choosing on what to use for a poll. Any image we have can be fixed,, if its a few inches off from being a perfect square it can be re-made and fixed. simple as that. AsuraDrago 02:07, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

914 × 706 isn't a "few inches". I'm not the only one who said they were bad angles, so get over it. Those likely will not be on the poll. 02:08, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

there is nothing to "get over" about, i dont see what you are getting so worked up about. if you were reading anything said the main idea is that past images or possible ones can be adjusted and fixed to meet portrait. we need to go over every possible option, if one is off by a fe inches it can be fixed. AsuraDrago 19:51, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Just poll it. 15:43, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

thats the issue, we are supposed to decide what to poll exactly. AsuraDrago 02:48, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

The only anime image that should be on the poll is some variant of the current one. Has anyone checked for a version with a more completely drawn mouth like I asked for above yet? 19:36, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

the last three i uploaded have his mouth drawn full, just look up from the one galaxy called disgusting. all we would need to do with them are adjust the angles a little if we were to choose any of them for a poll. AsuraDrago 04:06, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. 10:33, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Bump 11:58, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Are we deciding images for the poll now? 12:14, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, like Asura said: we need to decide what to poll. 14:22, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Only the two manga, and the open mouth anime/closed mouth anime should go on the poll. All of Asura's other images go against the guidelines. 04:45, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, so can someone make a test poll? 06:29, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, I've made a test poll. 15:22, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

haven't we already decided on the anime opposed to the manga? and no galaxy, nothing i have done is going against guidline rules. we have been talking about getting an anime version with a complete mouth drawn, adding in the anime version with the incomplete mouth drawn doesn't make the poll fair if no one wants it to start. we have had other complete mouth drawn anime versions put up for example. all we would need to do is re-shape them a little. adding two manga versions and the one anime version we have been tyring to replace to the poll doesn't seem right. AsuraDrago 15:44, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

In this situation, I greatly prefer anime to manga. But even if they were the proper shape, Drago, your images are much worse than the current anime option on the poll. I believe I'm not the only person to have that opinion either. 18:24, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

There are plenty of other anime images that nobody has even mentioned in the history of this file. SeaTerror (talk) 20:29, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

How exactly are they "much worse?" Obviously you aren't the only one, galaxy recently called one of my examples "disgusting" but he usually treats me like that on a regular basis. Look i was just throwing in some examples, i know they aren't the best but its better looking than the current one. My suggestions at least have good frontal angles and full-drawn mouths. You can't just rush and make a poll like this, the only anime option is the one no one wants! Does that seem fair to give an edge to the other two options? Its like what SeaTerror said, there are plenty of others to look at. And we can make others from past episodes. Its best no to rush things. AsuraDrago 04:02, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

They just don't fit the guidelines very well Asura.. Image Guidelines. 04:08, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

They aren't frontal, they have weird shadowing, and neither shows enough of his goatee. That's why they're bad choices for portraits. 12:46, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

They're shot from a slightly, bottom view and one of the ones you uploaded has Law with a weird expression on his face. 13:54, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Like I said, there's plenty of other anime images already in the history. SeaTerror (talk) 18:53, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Well thanks for clearing that up, I just wanted the details. Oh well, I was just throwing in some potentials. But anyway there are still others to choose from and we can make others. All we have to do is go through episodes after he appeared during the time-skip. There is no point in making a poll where one side has no chance of winning. And on that topic why not use only the portrait from chaper 693 as the only manga option? It has a better frontal angle than the other. Anyway how about the anime version from June 16 15:32? We can see his goatee, its frontal and no shadowing? AsuraDrago 02:48, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

The head is quite small and it's not exactly frontal. The lighting isn't that good either, there's more shadow than the current image. 06:50, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

The lighting and weird colorization on that 693 image is because of a smudged scan. That problem doesn't exist in the version uploaded by XScar. 21:32, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

I love how you all ignored that there were other anime images in the history to also choose from. SeaTerror (talk) 21:45, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Are any of you listening? Between myself and SeaTerror there are others to choose from and make! Why rush in and make a poll like this when we haven't officially decided on anything yet! Besides why use the current anime image in the poll when we are talking about getting another anime version instead? And for some odd reason my signature isn't working right when i vote on the poll. --	AsuraDrago 04:46, October 19, 2013 (UTC)

I've mentioned this in my post on the poll, but I'd like to reiterate this further: The current winning manga version has some serious flaws. 1) There's a giant line and blur that goes across the image. 2) The image has far more focus on his hat than his face, and if it were to be a proper portrait, it should be substantially cropped. When it is cropped in such a fashion, it looks quite awkward and much less recognizable because it isn't very frontal. This is why I believe the anime version is the best for now. 04:32, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the poll has already started so it's too late for that now. 09:15, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Now that there's an extended poll, there's more time to talk about such things. Also, if the manga version does win, this poll does not stop us from having a separate conversation about how the image must be cropped. 20:17, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

In the event the poll still remains a tie what then? --	AsuraDrago 02:12, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Then we extend it again. It should be extended indefinitely until a new vote is in, then it has 3 days left. I think that's how we do it. 03:14, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Will somebody please vote? The deadline is closing again, and it's still a draw. 04:32, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

We still have until midnight of Oct 27 right? I'm sure something will happen. --	AsuraDrago 02:54, October 27, 2013 (UTC)