Talk:Sengoku

A Devils Fruit and what it could be
We finally see him use some of his power and Oda smiles on us. This could turn into a copy of Marcos fruit discussion, but I think he has an ancient zoan fruit.

A) A buddha isn't a common animal. B) He didn't use an element so we know he isn't a logia user. C) It was a pretty drastic change so I think it's an animal fruit instead of just an ability. D) A buddha is a mythical creature.

He could very well be just like Marco and have a really rare mythical fruit for all we know. Which would mean that just like Marco, he is pretty much a zogia. A zoan logia combination. Since Marco pretty much was a combination of Aces fruit and a bird. True, it has yet to be shown if he can materialize once he has an arm or something blown off, but this needed to be started about him.

Dantheman 1.20.10


 * I have nothing to say about the power of Sengoku because I haven't read the chapter yet. But I really don't think you should call any devil fruit by the name of zogia, there is just three classes confirmed by Oda and that's paramercia, zoan and logia.


 * As stated in the series itself it is just a mythical type of zoan and Marco (who seems to be the only one that you call zogia-user) does not have the typical attributes of a logia-user. The blue flames you talk about seems to be in two cases, the first being when they cover Marco in his partial- and total phoenix-form just like they do around the mythical creature, the other case being when they heal his wounds wich also is something that the phoenix can do in myths. I don't really think that logias CAN heal themself but rather turn themself's into their element to prevent damage. The only time that I can find where it's compared to a logia is when they state that "mythical zoans are more rare than even logias".


 * So to sum it up: There is nothing that proves anything such as a logia-zoan-combination. Just a mythical zoan FifthDisciple 17:17, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * While there is definitely a high possibility that it's a devil fruit, there is also a chance that it might not be. His ability seems kind of similar to Urouge's still to be determined ability. Though I personally think his power comes from a devil fruit, it may also be something like life return, again referring to Urouge. Just saying, it's a possibility.DancePowderer 17:56, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * The thing with Sengoku is the whole size thing and budha appearance. It seems a bit too much to be a naturally attainable thing like Life Return. It also seems a bit different than Urouge's. With Urouge, it appeared that he absorbed the pain inflicted upon him earlier to buff his size. For Sengoku, his transformation was almost instantaneous without anything else supporting it.Mugiwara Franky 12:51, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Sengoku's fruit
I don't think Sengoku's DF is a Zoan, a "Buddha" isn't an animal at all, mytical or ancient. I think it's probably a Paramecia, if it's a DF: I'm not sure about it, since his ability looks pretty much like Urouge's one.
 * Okay please sign your posts with ~ as it is considered proper manners around here.


 * On the one hand I agree, on the other... Well traditionally compared to the western monsters, Japanese monsters have usually visually only been one step short of humans and animals appearance wise. So if it is a zoan, its not a normal one. One-Winged Hawk 12:16, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

The name of the devil fruit is KYOJIN NO MI. 01:31, January 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah the name is KYOJIN NO MI. I readed it on the mangastream.com Coldhandzz 11:52, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Where did you see it Cold cause I also read the actual chapter on mangastream.com and didn't see it being mentioned anywhere.Mugiwara Franky 12:51, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Its not been named. If you saw it there, its a lie. One-Winged Hawk 12:56, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

As far Sengoku's fruit is concerned, these are the speculated possibilities.

So it's either a Zoan or a Paramecia.Mugiwara Franky 12:51, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Sengoku ate a fruit that allows him to turn into a giant (the race). A Zoan
 * 2) Sengoku ate a fruit that allows him to turn into a Buddha (a creature). A Zoan
 * 3) Sengoku ate a fruit that alters his size to that of a giant. A Paramecia
 * 4) Sengoku ate a fruit that transforms him into a giant statue. A Paramecia

He can produce energy blasts or shock waves from his palm. It most likely is a Paramecia. Can't someone unlock the page so we could put it up? The chapter is already out. Yatanogarasu 14:08, March 17 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why but i was sure he was able to transform himself into a gold Budha statue. i thought it was the gold the base of his devil fruit power and the Budha only a nickname due to what he looks like. Scual

Buddha isn't an animal or a mythical creature, he is a human. So if it exsists a Buddha fruit, it might as well exsist an Albert Einstein fruit or a Napoleon fruit. And besides, Chopper already ate a human fruit. It's not like there is zoan fruits for individual representatives from a race, it's just the race itself. Sandrew


 * For some zoans, like the Ushi Ushi fruits, there are for individual species, though that doesn't mean that Sengoku's is probably a species of human since Chopper's the only one of it's model. Sengoku's fruit however could still be a zoan in speculation. He could be turning into a giant or an actual Budha, as in the god itself. Though whatever it really is still a mystery.Mugiwara Franky 15:04, June 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, in buddhism, Buddha is not a god. He is more like an idol or guru. He is a historical person, just like Einstein or Napoleon, which is why I doubt there exists a Buddha fruit. Sandrew


 * Yes in Buddhism, Buddha is indeed not a god. In Hinduism however, there is a Budha that is a god. There, Budha is a god, son of Chandra, and god and protector of Merchants. Due to the mythological association, some kinda see Sengoku's Devil Fruit going along the same mythological lines as Marco's phoenix Devil Fruit. True both the Hindu and Buddhist ones are not exactly related, however like Greek's Heracles and Rome's Hercules, due to one being the inspiration for the other, one can be unfortunately associated, if not mistaken, for the other despite the differences.


 * Whatever the case maybe, it'll be all clear once Oda explains things.Mugiwara Franky 15:29, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Answered in volume 60's SBS. Apparently, his fruit is a Mythical Zoan, the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu (Big Buddha). Silicontree 05:25, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Where did you get this information and is it reliable?DancePowderer 05:48, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found it on the Arlong Park forums, posted by a highly respected poster named Greg, who gave a translation of the SBS of Vol 60. Silicontree 07:32, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Removed "fights"
First off removed the "fight" against Garp because that was just one shove and Garp even told him to hold him down.

And as for "* Sengoku and Monkey D. Garp vs. Marshall D. Teach", that fight never happened. --New Babylon 17:37, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Sengoku's Haki
Could the blasts that Sengoku used against the Blackbeard Pirates actually be the result of Busōshoku Haki and not of any Devil Fruit abilities ? If you look at the blast's form and the way Sengoku made it - putting his hand into Teach's direction - you will notice it looks exactly like the three Admirals and Silvers Rayleigh's way of using Busōshoku Haki - when the first ones blocked Whitebeard's quake and when the last one blocked the elephant monster attack. Sengoku's Devil Fruit would only enable him to turn into a Giant Buddha/Rockman.

The size of this Busōshoku Haki would also suggest that Sengoku is specialized in that kind of Haki. LordRayleigh 14:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the thing: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS! its just pure speculation as there has NEVER been shown by ANYONE else, and until this is sugested to be the case it has no place on this wiki. also signing your own name and leaving your signature are two diffrent things85.166.166.105 00:01, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

It was showed that Busōshoku Haki can be used to make an armor which can block things and people and which can push them away at the same time. We've got three confirmed examples :


 * Sentoumaru blocking Luffy's attack and pushing him back


 * Marigold blocking Luffy's attack and pushing him back


 * Rayleigh blocking the elephant's attack and pushing him back

In these three confirmed cases, the Haki user uses his palm and puts it in the right direction - towards Luffy for Sentoumaru and Marigold, and towards the elephant monster for Rayleigh. We've now got two unconfirmed cases in which all the people uses their palms and put them in the right direction to block and push away - Sengoku towards the Blackbeard Pirates, and the three Admirals towards Whitebeard's quake. The position and effect of this two unconfirmed cases are exactly similar to the three confirmed cases'. Besides, the visual effect made by Oda of this " unknown " ability looks also like Rayleigh, Marigold and Sentoumarou's visual effect : some kind of walls - actually armors - before the palm. The only real difference is that these walls are way bigger with Sengoku and the three Admirals than with Sentoumaru, Marigold and Rayleigh.

So all these elements converge to an unique ability and solution in both cases : Busōshoku Haki. There is no " pure speculation " involved here.LordRayleigh 14:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * The sound and visual effects are different also, Sengoku is clear that create a shockwave. Tipota 00:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)



In the three Admirals and Sengoku's cases, the visual effect is alike so there is no more reason to confirm that the three Admirals stopped Whitebeard's quake with Haki than Sengoku used Haki against the Blackbeard Pirates. So will we need to remove the three Admirals from Busōshoku Haki users just because the technic they used has not been made official yet despite the evidence ? There is also no reason to associate Sengoku's " shockwaves " to his Devil Fruit, especially when it is totally illogical. And the visual effect with the three Admirals and Sengoku are way bigger than with the three confirmed cases because it is the result of a different level of Busōshoku Haki used. I'm looking forward to watching the anime dealing with these technics, just for people to see the good sense confirmed. Anyway, if it's not Busōshoku Haki, tell me what it is when it looks like Busōshoku Haki and likely cannot be Sengoku's Devil Fruit.LordRayleigh 14:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * For the comparison of sengoku and the admiral's: have you even looked at them? the ONLY similar thing is that they both used their palm's.
 * Why did sengoku use his palm: because its a convinient way of shooting someone with energy, DBZ is a good example.
 * The difference between Sengoku and the Admirals: Sengoku is the ONLY character in the series to have shown this ability, noone else, not whitebeard, not the admirals NO ONE.
 * Busōshoku Haki look: haki is invicible, it can not be seen (show one example outside of the pulse effect that clearly cannot be seen by the characters).
 * Devil fruit: There has never been stated that his DF is parmecia or zoan just look further up on this page for that debate.
 * And finaly: SING YOUR DAMN POSTS 85.166.166.105 01:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Devil fruit: There has never been stated that his DF is parmecia or zoan just look further up on this page for that debate.
 * And finaly: SING YOUR DAMN POSTS 85.166.166.105 01:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Busōshoku Haki look :


 * there is no visual effect when the attacks are ridiculous - when Rayleigh touches Luffy's nose (confirmed), when Garp holds Luffy by the cheek in his childhood
 * there is a little visual effect when they are clashs - when Whitebeard and Shanks use their weapons, when Rayleigh stops Kizaru (confirmed), when Sentoumaru stops Luffy's attack (confirmed), when Marigold stops Luffy's attack (confirmed), when Sengoku punches Luffy, when Marco stops Akainu's magma punch, and when Shanks stops Akainu's magma punch


 * there is massive visual effect with some kind of bubble when there is a massive Haki armor displayed - when Sengoku attacks the Blackbeard Pirates and when the Admirals stop Whitebeard's quake.

And these visual effects used on the anime does not necessarily mean that the characters can see them as you said - even with the cases of the Fleet Admiral and the Admirals. Also, DBZ is not an example which belongs here - and, if you think about it, the equivalent of energy in the One Piece world would be Haki. LordRayleigh 15:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * First: we are reading different manga.
 * Second: every use of Busōshoku Haki were in close range and almost in contact with the opponents/attacks. Sengokus' is very different.
 * Third: different sound effect means "different", not "alike".
 * Fourth: the Blackbeard Pirates said "shockwave" and not haki.--Tipota 15:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * First: where is the point in being disdainful ? It's not even an argument.
 * Second: Sengoku's attack is in direct contact with the opponents - the Blackbeard Pirates - even if Senfoku is not near them. And it's the same with the Admirals, they're not in contact Whitebeard's quake, yet their bubble is. The explanation is obviously that the Admirals' armor can stretch very far. To me, it's just the same with Sengoku's "shockwave " attack which is actually Sengoku's armor. And please notice, that Sentoumaru and Rayleigh who were near their opponent did not touch respectively Luffy and the monster elephant when they blocked them. To me, they are nearer their opponent because their armor did not stretch very far.
 * Third: where there always the same sound in the raw manga each time Busōshoku Haki was confirmed to be used ? In my previous post, there is a list of several confirmed examples. Also, what is the official japonese sound of the Admiral's bubble and Sengoku's bubble ?
 * Fourth: I understand your point but it's far from being a dead end. Mantra who was was used instead of Busōshoku Haki and had a big introduction with its own definition was finally Busōshoku Haki. Also the term " shockwave " was not used by Sengoku to name his attack. Anyway, Sentoumaru's attack Ashigara Dokkoi, which is in this case was named by his user himself, was finally Busōshoku Haki. LordRayleigh 16:08, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1: I guess i should have been a little more clear when i first brought it up. what i meant was that its a good way to aim, if you dont want goku as an example go read/watch luffy vs blueno luffy does this during that fight, hell its even on the cover of volum 40. also its possible this is the only way to do it for Sengoku.
 * 2:Here's how rayleigh described it "imagine yourself wearing an invisible suit of armor" and "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon" wanna know something that isnt hard? A NON-PHYSICAL ATTACK! the difference between the admirals and sengoku? its clear the admirals had a physical shield while segonku had a shockwave. also you cant say that they never touched their opponents, for all we know the blocking can have simply sent them flying and that we simply never saw the contact.
 * 3:I dont know if haki has different sound each time its used but there was a difference between Sengoku and the admirals
 * 4:The difference between luffy and blackbeard? Luffy couldnt even sense haki while Blackbeard could notice luffy's progress despite it never actually being used against him. i dont know about the Blackbeard pirates but i imagine its the same for them, and also its possible it was Blackbeard himself wo said "shockwave" its not really clear.
 * 85.166.166.105 22:45, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I want to add that, unlike Tipota said, every use of Busōshoku Haki was not in contact or almost in contact with the opponents/attacks. Indeed, Kuja warriors can throw Busōshoku Haki imbued arrows and be very far from their opponents. So it's possible to use Busōshoku Haki against someone even if you're far from him. It also means that Kuja warriors can throw Busōshoku Haki thanks to their arrows. So even if people don't believe Sengoku's blast is Busōshoku Haki, it is still possible that it is, unlike they say. LordRayleigh 15:29, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Arrows... physical arrows that needs to be in physical contact with something to harm them even with haki. and also they cant throw these arrows, they shoot them with bow not their hands.85.166.166.105 19:27, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't put in that that he use haki against if (luffy) he bleed from the attack because it could have Sengoku physical strength that cause it.
 * I want to add that, unlike Tipota said, every use of Busōshoku Haki was not in contact or almost in contact with the opponents/attacks. Indeed, Kuja warriors can throw Busōshoku Haki imbued arrows and be very far from their opponents. So it's possible to use Busōshoku Haki against someone even if you're far from him. It also means that Kuja warriors can throw Busōshoku Haki thanks to their arrows. So even if people don't believe Sengoku's blast is Busōshoku Haki, it is still possible that it is, unlike they say. LordRayleigh 15:29, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Arrows... physical arrows that needs to be in physical contact with something to harm them even with haki. and also they cant throw these arrows, they shoot them with bow not their hands.85.166.166.105 19:27, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't put in that that he use haki against if (luffy) he bleed from the attack because it could have Sengoku physical strength that cause it.

Trivia
I am not familiar with the concept of Buddhism but the isn't the trivia information about Sengoku being enlightened incorrect?From what i can recall Oda sayed that if you were to eat a Zoan of the same species then you would become enlightened(in the case of humans)and unable to swim.So since Sengoku ate a diffetent model he isn't enlightened, though increased intelligence is still a propability since that's the strength of the human race. UsoppSpell 17:56, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

I guess you refer to this line:

And also, Sengoku is possibly enlightened as stated by Oda that any human who has eaten the Hito Hito no Mi will become enlightened.

We simply don't know, however it is a possibility. Oda made no distinction between zoan and zoan models yet. 18:09, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

I guess you do have a point there but i still think that his ability to transform is proof that he isn't enlightened since from what i understood from Odas statement was that the Hito hito no mi consumed by a human would simply make him enlightened and unable to swim(no transformation included)which makes sense since standart form=human but hybrid and zoan model form=human again? UsoppSpell 18:20, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. To my mind, Oda was clearly referring to Chopper's fruit only, and what's more, all this enlightenment thing was just a joke. Hence this statement should be removed, or at least reworked. sff9 (talk) 18:32, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

I removed it. Some troll probably added it. The Hito Hito no mi has nothing to do with Sengoku. SeaTerror 19:02, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

First off, we don't know if Oda was refering to Chopper's fruit exclusively because he only said hito hito no mi, he didn't say anything about other models since they were not introduced yet. Second, Oda did not say it as a joke, he really meant it, as he explained that a human eating the hito hito no mi would learn what it means to be human. Whilei it is still speculation that Sengoku is elightened, the part about Oda's answer in the SBS should be kept. 20:16, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the answer would make no sense if he wasn't talking about the plain hito hito fruit... But whatever. How do you know that wasn't a joke? Based off the wiki's translation of the SBS, it really does not seem serious:
 * "I suppose I should say they "BECOME HUMAN". Uh, I guess you could say that means like becoming an adult, or finding your true spirit or something. So basically, people will live more human-like. Well. I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away)"
 * sff9 (talk) 20:30, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree with Dancepowderer, I can't spot a joke there. Most of Oda's answers are like that, tho I always wondered if he tries to be funny (and fails) or if the translation is just off. Anyway, if this was indeed a joke we can not take 95% of the SBS as a source (which would be sad, since a lot of our info stems from SBS's chapters) 21:13, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Most of his answers are like that, but the few important ones that we use as references aren't (except when he gives names, but the joke does not interfere with the info in this case). How can you say "Oda did not say it as a joke, he really meant it", whereas he ends his answer by "I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not."? If it's serious, then it's an official source both stating one thing and its contrary? Come on. (It would nonetheless be valuable that JOPfan or Klobis confirm that the translation is correct...) sff9 (talk) 21:33, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Why are you still arguing about it when the Hito Hito no Mi has NOTHING to do with Sengoku? SeaTerror 21:40, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

I just changed the trans for SBS 20 to a more accurate one. Oda admits he was just making things up, so related or not, this should not be counted for as any type of source. 21:52, March 1, 2011 (UTC)