Forum:Appointment of Chat Moderators without Discussion

''I would like to state before this forum even starts, that it is not about whether or not User:Straw Hat Boy is qualified for and/or should be a chat mod. This forum is about the process which was used to make him a mod. Please, try and stay on topic in this forum, and do not let your emotions about certain users cloud your judgment and poison your words. Remember that it is not SHB’s fault that he was made a mod with this process.''

For those of you who are unaware, here is a summary of the events that have caused this forum:

Here User:Ricizubi posted on DP's talk about him wishing to retire. He recommended User:Straw Hat Boy to replace him.

After Rici’s rights were removed, DP entered chat and was there for awhile talking with other users. Once SHB came on, DP private messaged him, asked him if he wanted the job, and then SHB became a chat mod.

Now, I and several other users have a problem with this process. Not only are their memories of “last time” but also genuine concern about whether things should have happened due to the Forum/Poll rules that are likely to pass in the next couple days.

My main concern is that during the chat before SHB was promoted, several users raised serious concerns and basically from what I can gather, the majority opinion was “SHB should not be made a chat mod.” What really frustrates me is that even though many users said “this should not happen” and DP made it happen.

I don’t care if an admin appoints a chat mod without an election. But there should at least be a community discussion about it. And if the majority of users think something should not happen, an admin should respect the opinions of their community. A good admin does not make policy, but helps the wiki create policy. I was in chat at the moment that SHB was made a mod, and I was honestly dumbfounded that DP would do that and knowingly disregard the opinions of so many users.

So from here, I would like the discussion to be about the process that chat mods are to be appointed. Personally, I think an acceptable way to deal with this would have been to have a forum where the discussion (and possibly a poll, depending on how the discussion went) was about giving SHB chat mod status. It would not be about any other people getting chat mod status, just SHB, in light of Rici’s nomination. This forum is not intended to be the forum about if he should be a mod or not. I am not out to immediately take away SHB’s chat mod rights. I just want there to be a real discussion about this process. So please, let’s all be nice and talk about this. 21:16, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
*eats popcorn as outrage begins to come in.....* 21:20, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well, as it was wrong to make someone else a chatmod without voting, don't forget DP made me a chatmod by only asking me. Without a vote.. And then Rici and Ryu asked him and he made them too, without a vote. I'm not against to an admin's choice.

That was long ago LPK. Times have changed and when a bunch of users specifically state that it's a bad idea (including 2 chat moderators), then the admin should not just do what he wants in order to avoid a forum. 21:29, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

If a Mod is to be Appointed. It should be rewarded to a user is deemed as trusty worthy by the community and a user who covers a time zone that lacks Admin/Mod. Also Don't I think SHB isn't ready to be a MoD Yet. 21:31, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Now you are directly criticizing SHB's ability to be a mod. How come no one had a problem with this when Rici, Ryu, LPK, and Kuro were elected mods? Or when JSD and the other rollbacks were put in place? And I think that we are degrading the admins; remember they were elected to keep the wiki in line. I do think that DP should have listened, but I think that the only reason you people are making a fuss is because SHB was the one elected. 21:35, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

The whole thing was just ridiculous. I have no problem with a CM being appointed without a community vote, but to completely disregard others opinions on the subject is completely asinine. Putting this aside, SHB is in general just not a good candidate for moderator position. He absolutely does not assume good faith. Name one moment where a new user has joined the chat and he hasn't assumed they were a troll just because they were new? --I didn&#39;t come here to paint eachother&#39;s nails like girls at a slumber party - I came here to kick your ass. If you have something to say, you can say it while I&#39;m cutting you to pieces! (talk) 21:36, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

The forum is mostly about what you said in your first sentence Besty, but let's try to leave out the second part since it isn't the Main focus of the forum. The main focus is community being ignored. PX, that is not true at all. This forum would exist right now no matter who the new appointed chat mod was. 21:37, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

l agree with JSD, a mod needs to be trusted by the community, so a community discussion is needed. 21:38, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

If you guys don't want to be a chatmod at all don't participate in this forum. And if you want to strip off StrawHatBoys rights just because you think it's unfair then lighten up. Now if you want to be a chatmod instead of him then go ahead and complain

LPK that is not the point of the forum at all. It isn't about anybody being jealous, it's about the community being ignored. Numerous people stated that SHB would be unfit to do the job (which may or may not be true), but even so, DP should have listened to the people before making such a quick decision. 21:44, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

''This forum has become very accusatory and disrespectful. Please everyone, actually read what I wrote and try to do better in the area of "Respect."''' Take it seriously, guys. 21:46, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Look, with all past joking aside, I personally don't care if I never became chat mod. If I was offered the job like this so suddenly, I would have declined. It's not fair for other users to give somebody a job without consulting anybody. This situation is similar to when Kuro became mod, however I think everybody shrugged that off because they believe Kuro is a trustworthy member, and we probably would have voted for him if there was an election anyways. SHB, as far as I've seen, has not gained a status like this in our community. So when you give him a big position like this so sudden, without even consulting other users, that to me, with all due respect DancePowderer, seems very impulsive. 21:50, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Gal, I highly doubt that this would have happened if it hadn't been SHB. No one said a word when Kuro was made mod, let alone the other examples. No matter how much you say it, you guys are biased against him.

Anyways, if you guys want this changed, propose a process. I'm not agreeing to anything until you present a plan to make sure this doesn't happen again. 21:50, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with JDS, a community decision is defenitly needed. We had this kind of situation before, and I don't see why DP appointed SHB as new chatmod..

PX what the heck. Kuro was already a trusted member of the community at the time, but if I had been here at the time, I would have been a little mad. This forum is NOT about SHB PX, so stop posting like it is. 21:53, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the community can make a decision like that. The community discusses about regular forums that are talking about rules and pretty simple stuff. That is an admins choice, unless it's a massive chatmod election that more than 2 people are going to be chatmods..

The community should have some sort of input over who gets to have power over them anywhere. Since many members of the community were AGAINST the idea of this happening, it obviously wasn't a good decision by DP. 21:56, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Gal, I'm not the one that started this criticizing of SHB. Anyways, since you all seem incapable of doing this, I propose a plan for new mods.


 * 1) Five or more users propose the need for a new mod on a forum.
 * 2) Nominations take place for the next three days. Each nominee must be approved by at least two current mods.
 * 3) Elections take place for one week. The winner becomes a mod.

This process is designed to be quick and streamlined. I personally don't think this is as important as an admin spot, hence the shorter amount of time. 22:01, November 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * By the way, the admin that appoints the mod has veto rights. He can choose not to elect the mod. 22:04, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Sure PX, that could work for future mod elections. If SHB went through something like that fairly and got it, then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. 22:03, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

And as for the amendment, sure. If the Admin feels that a new chat mod isn't needed, or that the person just isn't fit, but it would still go back to the community. 22:06, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Right now dispite us not liking DP's decision it's honestly to early to tell if SHB can be a good MOD. 22:11, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't really matter Besty. Since he was brought in without community consent, it has to be decided in a way like PX described. 22:14, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Again, you;re taking this to a personal matter.. Community elects admins to do their work. If an admin wants to make someone a chatmod he can do it as long as he wants to. Now SHB is a chatmod for like 2 days, don;t judge him cause you don't like the idea of having him as a mod. If he abuses his rights then he will be stripped right away.


 * One day, actually, LPK. 22:30, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Just gonna clarify some things.....

When the forum is created, the names of the five people must be at the top. Each forum must list the reasons the forum was created, a Nomination section, and a Discussion section. After the three-day nomination section is over, the voting begins (in a new section).

Each new nomination in the nomination section has a new subheading (like the current admin forum). The two mods must give their consent within the three day period under that same heading. Users may ask mods to support them.

Unless the forum specifies otherwise, only ONE user will be elected per forum suggestion. This is to avoid the craziness of the previous mod election.

If an admin deems a user not fit to be a mod after election, veto rights are available. If the admin decides not to mod the user, he can be overridden by 20 votes for a particular candidate. Without these votes, the user does not get rights.

For the sake of not clogging up the history with a bunch of useless forums, we might want to consider deleting the content of the old mod forum when a new forum mod is created (the same page is used). Or we could create a new category, or do neither.

Any questions? 22:30, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I always support community decisions, because the wiki is run by a community, but I honestly think that the chat moderator is nothing special at all... that's may be seem out of place from someone that usually don't use the chat (well, at least not here :P) but seriously, what the purpose of the chatmod is? To kick trolls out when needed. Moderate the users in the chat and deal with them if they don't follow the common etiquette? Sure, but that's something that an admin is qualified for... so the chatmod basically replace the admin when he is not around. In my opinion any trusted user can be promoted to chatmod, and you can have the admin double check later any decisions that he does (= kickban users, the only decision he could ever make). No big deal, if some kickbans were unfair then they will be undo in less then a day by an admin, probably. I propose that the admins give chatmod status to trusted users who actively frequent the chat each week, rotating the status between the users themselves. Simple, fair and efficient.

easiest way to handle this, give SHB one or two months with the position of chat mod if he don't play is role as a CM just tell DP about this behavior,  Nico ❤❤❤  22:39, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

LPK, if the community has a problem with someone being made a chat mod, then they have a right to bring it up. We aren't just supposed to sit back and watch when something we don't like happens. No Nico, 1-2 months is a long time. 22:42, November 5, 2012 (UTC)