Talk:Haki/Haoshoku Haki

Garp
Why is Garp not on this list? And neither is Dragon, despite Garp saying specifically that "He did inherit it after all" and Iva-chan stating that "Dragon's blood" flowed through Luffy after he used it at Marineford.

Anon, 01:11, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Because it's not confirmed yet. We have only seen Garp using Busoshoku Haki, so he only gets listed there unless we see him using Haoshoku. Besides, it might be Dragon who developed it and Luffy inherited it from him. 01:16, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Then, Dragon should be completely confirmed by Iva's statement since she knows nothing about Garp so she can only have known if he had inherited it from Dragon.

24.253.198.224 17:41, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Keep dreaming. 17:44, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

He* SeaTerror (talk) 18:01, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Speculatively, it does make sense for Dragon to have Haoshoku based on the hints given. However, this is indeed speculation deriving from hints and since speculation is forbidden then Dragon or Garp cannot be listed as users until it is mentioned in the story that they have it or are seen using it. 18:24, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Chinjao's epithet
I think Chinjao should also be listed as the "royal" Haoshoku Haki-user. His epithet, Don  was originally a title reserved for royalty and select nobles.--Black Butler94 (talk) 09:36, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Chinjao is royalty, the word "Don" here is used similarly to "The Godfather" movies, indicating a leader of an underground/illegal organization. Even if he was of royal bloodline though, why should we state it in the Haki page?

Diamante's comment on Haoshoku haki
In chapter 716, when Diamante noted that both Chinjao and Luffy were using Haoshoku haki (or was it just haki in general?), should we state that when two users of it clash, drastic effects happen? Eg when Whitebeard and Shanks clashed it split the sky. Or is this just speculation? Anima40 (talk) 12:32, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

I got to agree with anima, it's pretty obvious some weird stuff happens when two HH users clash.

Nobody700 (talk) 13:07, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

Bumping, need more opinions on the matter please. Anima40 (talk) 03:52, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

Complete speculation to attribute it to haki. 04:07, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

Luffy vs Doflamingo should be the longest clash of CoC users we see so far, so it's best to wait until that happens to decide whether anything should go on the page. 05:32, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think something extraordinary happened when Luffy and Chinjao chashed, just a normal burst which has been seen happening even in clashes between normal fighters. Diamante's comment was there to inform us that HH possession is detectable by experienced and strong characters.

Yeah I see your points now, you guys are right. We'll learn more when Luffy fights Doflamingo and Diamante was just showing his experience. Anima40 (talk) 09:06, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

Now that we've seen another clash of conquerors haki with Doffy vs Luffy, can I add it into this page. Also on a re-read I noticed the original clash of conquerors haki with Luffy vs Chinjao actually caused people to be knocked out of the coliseum. Anima40 (talk) 05:31, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

Chinjaos words
Based on what Chinjao said about conqueror's haki: "The strongest among a legion of "conqeurors", thats' who the King of the Pirates is". Can we assume that Roger knew conqeuror's haki now? Anima40 (talk) 02:32, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

From a metaphor? Not even close. 19:30, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Coby
Why isnt coby on the list, he has been showed using this type of Haki when he stopped the battle at marinford. 85.166.144.158 23:11, June 8, 2014 (UTC)Makrell

Don't be stupid.

00:15, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Someone doesn't know how haki or yonko involvement works. 03:12, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

I do, and screaming could not have achieved the same, that was clearly Haki 85.166.144.158 09:20, June 9, 2014 (UTC)Makrell

Show me in the manga where people were knocked out by Coby screaming.

10:19, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

You're confusing immediate vicinity for the whole of Marineford. 03:48, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

They were already knocked out. SeaTerror (talk) 10:22, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Zoro's haoshoku haki?
Someone new to the wiki posted that zoro did have haoshoku haki. He claims that when Zoro is fighting the dragon at punk hazard he uses haoshoku haki.

Here's the video go to 4:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAlBwdsykI

It does look like the typical "Haoshoku blue bubble" and the Dragon's eyes go blank after being attacked.

What do you think? Personally it does look like Haoshoku haki to me.

LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!!!

Grievous67 (talk) 19:11, October 21, 2014 (UTC)Grievous67

Anime isn't canon. Debate over. SeaTerror (talk) 19:14, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

^What ST said. 19:17, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Do your research first, guys. That same scene happened in the Manga.

Anyways, regardless of that, we can't prove it's Haki. The eyes could just be shock from clashing with Zoro. No concrete evidence for it makes it speculation, which we can't have on articles. 19:23, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

GODDAMIT ODA, SHOW IT BETTER!!! *adds to the list of things that should totally be in the sbs Grievous67 (talk) 19:59, October 21, 2014 (UTC)Grievous67

6.5 years later, we're at chapter 1010. Kaido suspects Zoro can use Haoshoku Haki. I am doubtful that this makes it canon, especially since Zoro denies it. For one thing, it is possible to overcome Busosoku Haki coating with sheer force, so it is possible that Zoro overcame Haoshoku Haki coating with his strength + Oden's sword. So can we not rush to claim Zoro has Haoshoku Haki? Or instead of removing such speculation entirely, we could put it in trivia until it is confirmed. Lore.reclaimer (talk) 10:14, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Given that Kaido is a Haoshoku user himself and that Haoshoku users often awaken their abilities unknowingly, I don't really see any reason to think that Kaido is mistaken about Zoro using it. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:06, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Admirals possessing Haoshoku haki?
Hey, I read in SBS 77 (one rough translation) that all Admirals possess Haoshoku haki... can you guys verify it? If that is the case then how would it go? Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Fujitora, Greenbull, Sengoku, Kong, Z (non canon) and also Garp (cause he was offered the position)? 10:52, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

i second this i read the exact same thing.  Judge Magister Pyarox  08:49, April 3, 2015 (UTC)

We're waiting for our translator to get to work on it, as well as the official release of the new volume.

08:53, April 3, 2015 (UTC)

Haki Clash
In the Anime/Manga differences, its mentioned that only in the Anime those who clash with Armament/Conqueror's Haki cause the ripple/shockwave effect. But with the newest chapter (782) when Luffy blocked Doflamingo's kick they both had their feet clad in Haki and caused a huge shockwave effect when clashing. Trebol called it a clash of Conqueror's Haki. So should we consider that effect canon with the manga now? AsuraDrago 22:40, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

The same happened with Luffy and Chinjao in the manga (chapter 716), so I don't know why the page claims it's anime-only. 22:47, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Well considering all things now we may as well add it into the page itself. AsuraDrago 23:27, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead. 23:28, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Would you say it suits either "Usage" or "Other Information"? AsuraDrago 23:36, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps both. Usage could mention the way Luffy/Chinjao/Doflamingo use it in conjunction with Busoshoku hardening, while Other Information can talk about the ripple effect. 23:41, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Well for now I'll just edit "Other Info" when including both effect and see how that goes. Feel free to check the page in a couple minutes and change what you see fit. AsuraDrago 23:47, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

They didn't. They both used conqueror Haki. That's where the effect comes from. It was first seen during Whitebeard vs Shanks. SeaTerror (talk) 04:40, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Bump. SeaTerror (talk) 06:51, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

What's your point, ST? What do you mean "They didn't"? We agreed that the black ripple effect is Conqueror's Haki. 16:01, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

What I removed stated it was due to a combination of Busoshoku Haki and Haoshoku Haki when we know that it was only due to Haoshoku Haki SeaTerror (talk) 17:34, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Well, I agree with you. 17:41, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Well, it seems there's no opposition so I'm closing this. 19:14, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Gol D Roger
Shouldn't he be on the list? I mean when the Conqueror's haki first came out I remember clearly characters making a comparison between Ruy and Gol D. It happened more than once too. It's also logical.93.67.108.113 22:21, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

That makes no sense. It comes down to this: Have we seen Roger use any form of Haki? No, until we do or someone in the series confirms it then we will add him. No speculation. AsuraDrago 19:40, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

So it's not sufficient that it has been stated multiple times and his character is at the center of Conqueror's haki explanation? Oh god how can this wiki be complete with such rules? It's a fucking manga and a written proof is not enough?! I'm pretty sure many other articles here are based on stuff mentioned by characters so I don't get it. There is no speculation it's a fact. 188.217.122.169 11:20, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Someone comparing Luffy and Roger does not say anything about Haki use. You're certainly free to make your own (likely correct) assumptions, but as a wiki we need to be able to cite things from the original work. 11:27, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

I understand. It's that I remember something about character stating the ability of making friends (like Roger didi) and the fact that the conqueror's haki makes you realize incredible stuff like Roger as king of the pirates... but it's been years and it might be the dub of my country I dunno. Thanks for the answer anyway. If I ever find something on the argument I'll post it here. 188.217.122.169 12:08, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of which, why is he on the Conqueror's Haki list as of today? There hasn't been any official news that he had it. I mean, ok, obviously it's more than likely that it'll be revealed he could use it; but we shouldn't just go throwing fan theories into the articles guys, regardless of how accurate they might prove to be. We're trying to be profesional here. Mhj0808 (talk) 23:39, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Haoshoku Haki Garp
47.20.255.177 15:33, September 29, 2016 (UTC)Eh, I noticed that Garp was missing from the list of Haoshoku Haki users

It's stated that when two Haoshoku Haki users fight electric things fly out as shown when Luffy and Chinjao fought https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yes6ZvFQdIc/maxresdefault.jpg

Here is an example of the manga between the clash of Garp and Chinajou where he exhibts blue lightning  http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122199/3473063-one-piece-4412439.jpeg

And from the anime http://rs1084.pbsrc.com/albums/j417/ilbasone/One%20Piece/Screen%20-%20Grafiche%20-%20Lavori/Garp_VS_Don_Chinjao_zps04677ca4.gif~c200

Where does it state that that is something which actually happens and not just something Oda did for effect? 15:42, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

On the wiki " It has also been shown that when two users of this Haki clash, it causes a rippling or shock wave effect cracking the air similar to the Gura Gura no Mi . The shock waves from the Haoshoku Haki clash between Luffy and Chinjao were strong enough to blast people out of the coliseum arena into the water below. The Haoshoku Haki clash between Luffy and Doflamingo produced shockwaves that pushed Trebol and Law's incapacitated body away from them." 47.20.255.177 15:53, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

There's no way to tell whether it was H-Haki or impact lines. The lines weren't present in the rest of their clash, so it's unlikely to be H-Haki. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 15:50, September 29, 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, remember when Luffy and Lucci punched and caused a shockwave? Maybe Lucci has Haoshoku as well. And what about Impact Dials? Maybe they all have Haoshoku! And let's not forget Usopp's wolf shooty thing, that causes a shockwave so he must have Haoshoku.


 * Sometimes, a shockwave is just a shockwave.


 * 15:52, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

Also, it's a strange coincidence that this is discussed shortly after this blog about the same topic has been soundly naysayed. So are we discussing whether to remove that fairly speculative trivia from the wiki then, because it sounds like it should go.

15:55, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

Actual Conqueror's Haki clashes have a black ripple effect in the manga (Luffy vs Chinjao/Doflamingo) while Chinjao vs. Garp just had a common impact effect. Ignore whatever the anime does. 15:56, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

Elizabello II
In Dressrosa the "black lightning" effect was introduced for users of Haoshoku Haki. We see it first with Chinjao when he starts boiling with rage and is held back by his grandsons after first encountering Luffy in chapter 708. We see it numerous other times throughout the arc.

When Elizabello II does his king punch in the next chapter, the aftermath panel shows that exact same lightning radiating from the point of impact. As a King, he certainly qualifies as the kind of person who could possess Haoshoku Haki, and it'd explain how that punch is so powerful. He's not as skilled a user as others since it takes him an hour to build it up, but the black lightning's presence is indisputable, it's a pretty distinct effect, and introduced in this very arc.

I think he should be added as a user, and then perhaps the "only pirates have shown it" trivia line should be removed.

Tathanen (talk) 17:37, November 19, 2016 (UTC)Tathanen

Black lightning occurs in a clash between two Haoshoku users. What you're talking about here are just some impact lines. Complete speculation to say he has Haoshoku. 17:50, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

It's just pure physical force, which is why Bartolomeo was unaffected. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:09, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

The lines are very distinctive. They've been used for haoshoku exclusively, and never before dressrosa. Aside from the direct clashes, these are the only other two occurences I've seen. Chinjao powering up, and the King Punch, both seeming fairly reasonable as haoshoku events. Sure, noboday SAYS "boy, he's using conqueror's haki!," but it's absolutely the same visual effect. I think that's pretty telling, it's been used very purposely. Tathanen (talk) 01:00, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

M8 he has not been stated to have Haoshosoku Haki, so we cannot add him in the list. Heck, we dont even have roger or Garp in there even though it's more than obvious, so we cant go ahead and add anyone whose techniques might bear a similarity. 11:21, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Haki/Haoshoku Haki This covers it. The lightning effect only happens with Busoshoku. The rest are just impact lines. Also as already mentioned Bart would have been affected if it was Haoshoku. SeaTerror (talk) 16:30, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

We've seen non-haoshoku busoshoku clashes in the past, they don't create these lines. It's only haoshoku clashes. All I'm noting here is the presence of an effect used exclusively with haoshoku haki, and how it's also present in a couple other instances. (Not the shockwaves, the lightning.) Actually, I just got to Burgess vs Sabo/Lucy and there it is, the black lightning, and it's just a bushouku clash, not haoshoku. Looks like you guys were right! Oh well.

RE: Bart, though, only chumps are knocked out by Haoshoku shockwaves, he's plenty strong enough to weather that generic effect, and his barrier obviously tanked the impact itself. Tathanen (talk) 18:44, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

Isn't it just as impressive the Straw hats handle rayleigh conquers haki
It listed on all the straw hat pirates (that took part of the whole cake arc) pages under abilites and power that they resist big mama conquers haki I get why that imporant she is a yonkou but why isnt fact they resist rayleigh up there  as well i mean  he wqs roger second in command shouldnt that be just impressive?need to speak to admin (talk) 21:54, December 1, 2018 (UTC)


 * Because Rayleigh probably chose not to target the Straw Hats with his Haki. Big Mom did. And yes, it has been shown that Conquerers Haki can target specific individuals rather than everyone within range. Timjer (talk) 10:30, December 2, 2018 (UTC)

Wait didnt rayleigh give them props for withstanding his coco burst?!need to speak to admin (talk) 07:17, December 6, 2018 (UTC)

Is Withstanding a Burst of Haoshoku Haki with Willpower a General Ability or a Physical Ability?
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, but is possessing a strong willpower to withstand a Haoshoku Haki burst a general Ability or a Physical Ability? I've noticed on several character's pages that they don't seem to really be in just one section (some have it in their general Abilities and Powers section and others in their Physical Abilities section, and one in their general Haki section). I want to make their pages consistent to one another, but I would like hear some others users opinions on the matter, so I can get a general consensus before I do. Vincent Dawn (talk) 23:03, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

A general ability. It's about willpower. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:52, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

Noland also thought it is more of a general ability in his opinion, when I talked to him on Discord. I was going to wait till Saturday to make the changes (unless you think it should be shorter) just make sure others have their chance to give their opinion. Vincent Dawn (talk) 17:05, April 29, 2019 (UTC)

It is a general ability but it doesn't matter to make it consistent when we have episode stubs for a massive amount of articles. SeaTerror (talk) 18:54, May 2, 2019 (UTC)

It's not much of problem for me I have a list of characters where that information is in different sections. I'm not certain how episode stubs help though since they don't list characters who possess strong wills in their notes or trivia section. Vincent Dawn (talk) 20:03, May 2, 2019 (UTC)

I meant work on something that would actually help the wiki instead of a non issue like that. SeaTerror (talk) 20:40, May 2, 2019 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with doing either, ST. How many episodes have you destubbed lately? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:52, May 2, 2019 (UTC)

So far that's three who think it's a general ability (Noland thought it was a general ability during a discussion on Discord). I'll work on those articles tomorrow. Vincent Dawn (talk) 04:51, May 4, 2019 (UTC)

If the character has a Haki section, the comment should go there instead of general abilities as it pertains to their strength and experience with Haki. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 01:17, May 5, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think the ability the withstand Haoshoku Haki is Haki specific. A number of characters possess strong wills, but don't use Haki. Also I don't think it's been stated yet that some who possess Haoshoku Haki can knock someone with weaker Haki. I will concede though that if someone knows about Haki and can use it than it should go in that section. But possessing a strong will is more about the mind than about Haki. Vincent Dawn (talk) 02:41, May 5, 2019 (UTC)

Kaido
In chapter 951, we saw a clash of between Kaido and Big Mom split the sky just like the clash between Shanks and Whitebeard's clash of Haoshoku Haki, so shouldn't this qualify Kaido as a user of  Haoshoku Haki, too?Nekron2 (talk) 19:32, August 2, 2019 (UTC)

You can also see crackles like the ones between Luffy and Doflamingo when Luffy and Kaido are fighting. Mase-kun (talk) 11:12, December 22, 2019 (UTC)

Coating
The article states that coating with this Haki is striking opponents without touching them + long and dark auras of energy. However, when Kaido used Kosanze Ragnaraku on Luffy, it was noted by Luffy to have used this coating -- however it looks like it did indeed "touch" Luffy. Based on Kaido's demonstration, wouldn't it be more accurate to state that coating with this Haki simply enhances the user's attack to a greater extent and visually adds the long and dark auras of energy to it? ★WindStar7125  Talk Contribs 17:39, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Youngest Haki User
"Portgas D. Ace was shown unwittingly using it at the age of 10, being the youngest known person to use any of the three types of Haki "

Underlined text is incorrect, Aisa uses Kenbunshoku Haki at age 9 (Vivre Card 0292) during the Skypiea Arc and claims she's had the ability since birth (Chapter 265). Bababobodo (talk) 00:07, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that was an oversight on my part. It's fixed now. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:39, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Animal Taming
There have been one or two minor edit wars (mostly on the Haki page) over whether or not Haoshoku Haki has the ability to tame animals. I have looked at the sources of the claimed instances of Haoshoku animal taming in the series, and this is what I have come away with:
 * The most explicit usage of Haoshoku to assert command over an animal is when Luffy told Surume to stop attacking in Chapter 606. I have seen claims on this site that Surume became Luffy's pet because of his usage of Haoshoku, but given that this event happened offscreen this is nothing more than speculation.
 * Luffy has also been claimed to have tamed Ucy using Haoshoku, but again this happened entirely offscreen.
 * Luffy has used Haoshoku twice to make animals temporarily docile. Once against the Sea Squirrel in Chapter 609, then later against Hihimaru in Chapter 911. Hihimaru became hostile again not too long after until being fully tamed by Tama's ability.

With these examples in mind, I do not think we can 100% say that Haoshoku allows one to fully tame or subjugate an animal. We can definitely mention how Surume followed orders from Luffy due to his Haki, but anything more than that is not really confirmed. Any other thoughts? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:13, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Don't forget about when Luffy was sentenced to be executed on Amazon Lily. He used Haoshoku unconsciously to stop Boa Marigold and Boa Sandersonia from shattering the petrified Marguerite. Does that count as them becoming temporary subservient, even if they are both human.

Not sure if this is even relevant, but I would be remised if I did not bring it up.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 20:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC))

I would not go so far as to say that Luffy's outburst of Haki forced them to follow his command; it could have just as easily been them being shocked and/or overwhelmed at his display of power and wanting to attend to its aftermath rather than continuing to attack the petrified Kuja. Imo there's some room for interpretation there and I'd like to see it happen with other Haoshoku users before I consider it a sure thing. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:06, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Oden's advance Haoshoku (infusion) ?
''Question : I always play in the kindergarten and use "Togen Shirataki" and "Kamusari" will I get stronger?

Oda : Woah! Take it easy on the conqueror's haki!''

From one of the latest SBS,

I guess this proves Oden was already using (infusion) advance Haoshoku Haki in his attacks? Marco 1907 (talk) 20:50, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Zoro's Haoshoku Haki infusion
Same visual confirmation as Yamato. It goes perfectly well with confirmation stated and referenced in Wiki, as well, represented by same artistic and design choice author picks for Haoshoku infusion.

If we confirmed Yamato based off of nothing but the visual confirmation, we should give same treatment to Zoro's confirmation last chapter. Either that, or we remove Yamato from the list, as well. Shannyoi (talk) 18:51, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I tend to agree, though it's still a bit ambiguous whether Zoro is doing it consciously. 19:07, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Possibly, but it's about as much ambiguous as Yamato, who also showed visual confirmation with nothing else to support it- and visual confirmation might just be the best confirmation, honestly.

For the record, if we look at last panel, we confirm that there is no Armament Haki coating (Wado Ichimonji is completely uncoated and not black), confirming that there's zero percent chance of those passive spark being from Busoshoku blackening.

If we're not adding Zoro to it right now, we should be fair and remove Yamato, as well. In my opinion, we should add and keep them both there, as they've displayed the visual confirmations with artistic choice author has only ever used for Haoshoku Infusion and nothing else.Shannyoi (talk) 19:16, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

My thought is, why not simply wait a week. The chapter ended immediately after Zoro activated this new power without creating really any opportunity to explain it, so in situations like that we can save a lot of energy and trouble by just waiting for the next chapter. I'm sure King will have something to say about it. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:20, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I mean, the visuals are practically confirmation- it's about as much a confirmation as watching someone blacken their hand and considering it Armament coating. Not to mention, Yamato has absolutely nothing else other than visual confirmation, as well. No statements to match regarding such. Not to mention, the wiki's description of infusion only considers visual confirmation as most reliable one.

Waiting on next chapter is whatever, but at least we should at least come up with a good specification on exactly what kind of "confirmation" we're waiting on. Because there are characters included with similar confirmations as Zoro already, and they should await same confirmations.Shannyoi (talk) 19:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Personally I do think it is Haoshoku infusion, given how the chapter showed Zoro using Haoshoku right before powering up. But given that the powerup occurred as a cliffhanger and little has been given so far to contextualize it, that coupled with questions over how much Zoro knows about this power and whether it can be activated unconsciously like this, the best option is to wait. We've seen Yamato create the seeming infusion effect multiple times, including for Raimei Hakke which possesses the same Haoshoku effect as Kaidou's version of the attack (which was explicitly confirmed to have Haoshoku imbuement). Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I will stay neutral in all this and will not add/delete that information, but I was also thinking of starting this debate. I will agree with waiting as much like with Sanji's body enhancements as I stuck to what I read in the source material from VIZ back then and kept it from being confirmed too early until the appropriate time. Even if some spoilers show up when I check tomorrow, it will at least help me on knowning what to expect when the chapter is officially released so I can officially confirm it. -Adv193 (talk) 21:54, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

While I'd love it to be infuision, doesn't it seems a bit cheap to have Zoro learn this advence technique minutes after learning he even possess CoC? And in the end, can we really say for future occurances the black lightning automaticly means CoC infusion? Should we include Chinjao, Elizabello, Sai, Sabo, and Burgess as well as advance users? Rhavkin (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * There's two different effects. (1) Haoshoku Clash: A clash between two Haoshoku users results in black lightning flying off randomly in all directions. This happens naturally and does not require infusion. (2) Haoshoku Infusion: A Haoshoku user deliberately infuses something with Haoshoku Haki. This is indicated by a stream of black lightning flowing from the infused object or body part. Upon attack, there is also the visual effect of not making physical contact. Now, ordinary impact lines can sometimes look similar to (1), but (2) has been visually unique and consistent. In addition, one thing that helps distinguish Haoshoku lightning from other impact effects is the presence of the sound effect バリ バリ (bari bari) or *zap zap*. 10:44, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Whether it's cheap or not doesn't really change much about its presence objectively. As for black lightning, no, that in itself does not mean anything. Single streaks of black lightning passively emitting from one's weapon(s) is the visual indicator the author has used only for infusion and nothing else thus far. Kaido's and Yamato's club, Roger and WB's weapons, are perfect example, and Zoro's is exactly like that. His swords are not even infused with armament blackening otherwise, and he's not even preparing an attack; he's just standing there. It's fairly clear-cut.Shannyoi (talk) 07:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Yamato and the others had the benefit of displaying the technique in use. I think it's too early to declare what Zoro is doing, but it's not too early for Zoro to have picked up on the technique. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 15:30, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Confirmed by Chapter 1035. 15:15, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Did Yamato confirm that Pressure is an advance version of Infusion?
Since she said, when Roger and WB clashed, they splitted the heavens, it's the same thing with Kaido and Big mom, Luffy and Kaido, and all of them are all CoC Infusion users.

It wouldn't make sense if a user is using pressure but not infusion, based on not even Yamato can do this, another CoC infusion user, and she was clearly impressed with Luffy's and Kaido's CoC clash, when they were using Infusion CoC,

So I think this confirm Shanks as a infusion CoC user, am I wrong? Marco 1907 (talk) 23:21, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Shanks/Whitebeard and Big Mom/Kaido did not infuse Haoshoku Haki when they clashed – their weapons made contact and there was no stream of black lightning. Therefore, the sky splitting effect does not require infusion to occur. 13:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I think you are wrong about ' making contact ', not making a contact is not a requirement for CoC infusion, Yamato has never done this (attacking without making a contact) and she is using infusion CoC, and Kaido's Ragnaroku attack made contact with Luffy and only after this Luffy figured out about CoC infusion, that's just CoC infusion with CoA Barrier ability combined with each other, not a requirement for CoC infusion,

This Wikia page itself said this; ' ' The advanced Busoshoku application of damaging objects without making physical contact with them has often been seen with people using Haoshoku infusion, but it should not be taken as a sign of Haoshoku infusion by itself, as it has been shown that infused objects can make physical contact with what they strike (source chapter 1009 / Kaido's Ragnaruku) ' '

you are right about there was no black lightning, but before the time skip, there wasn't even any black CoA Haki example, it revealed after time skip chapters, so there couldn't be any black lightning before time skip chapters as well, when Luffy and Kaido splitted heavens, as well as Big mom and Kaido clashed in chapter 951 there was black lightnings Marco 1907 (talk) 17:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Black lightning and shockwaves are always present in Haoshoku clashes, including those between Luffy/Chinjao and Luffy/Doflamingo. None of whom used infusion at the time. When using infusion, the black lightning is flowing from their weapons (or body parts) in a continuous stream. This did not occur with Kaido/Big Mom. 18:18, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

You are wrong about Kaido and Big mom clash in chapter 951, look at the next panel right after their clash, in the official color pages, you can clearly see the black lightnings covering the entire Onigashima island, and you can also see the sfx (sound effects) also such as ' zap '.

These can't be seen in Whitebeard vs Shanks clash but its because there was no such a thing black lightning CoC concept before the time skip, as I said, there wasn't even any black CoA concept before the time skip chapters. Marco 1907 (talk) 18:38, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Reread my comment more carefully. 18:44, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I did, I told you, their black lightning covered the entire Onigashima island right after their clash in the next panel, I don't think it should be necessary to show it before their attack, they can do it right after the attack, and they did that,

Also you are wrong about black lightning being necessary for CoC infusion, when Zoro used Asura against Kaido, Kaido said it was CoC infused in it, yet we didn't see any black lightning when Zoro used Asura against Kaido, so this should prove that black lightning is not necessary for CoC infusion, as well as Oda said this in SBS ;

' Question : I always play in the kindergarten and use "Togen Shirataki" and "Kamusari" will I get stronger?

Oda : Woah! Take it easy on the conqueror's haki! '

- SBS Vol. 100

So as you can see from this SBS, Togen Shirataki attack has also CoC infusion, and there was no black lightnings there when Oden used it against the mountain god. Marco 1907 (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Using Haoshoku Haki alongside an attack is not the same thing as infusing Haoshoku Haki into an attack. Infusion is indicated by the black lightning streaming off the particular weapon or limb, separate from the black lightning effect in clashes. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 21:50, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't think they ever said something like that in the manga so we can seperate the difference like that, also sometimes only Busoshoku Haki too creates the same thing, see Jinbe vs. Who's-who, there were black lightning coming from Jinbe's body

Using H.Haki alongside an attack should be the same with infusing H.Haki into an attack, unless you mean a classic H.Haki clash such as Doflamingo vs. Luffy or Chinjao vs. Luffy as using H.Haki alongside an attack, that's simply because of 2 H.Haki users releasing their H.Haki at the same time, that's different than Zoro using H.Haki in his Asura attack to get his attack stronger than usual as he did against Kaido, and that wasn't because of 2 H.Haki users clashing with each other like it happened with Chinjao vs. Luffy, and even in that, there was black lightnings, but again, in both Asura and in Togen Shirataki, there was no black lightnings involved. Marco 1907 (talk) 22:22, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Haoshoku subordinates
"So far, whenever a Haoshoku user has been subordinate to someone, it has been to another Haoshoku user"

Isn't Chinjao being Sai's underling breaking the rule, is it?

Chinjao isn't a subordinate, he's just retired.DevilSlayer123 (talk) 23:47, 7 April 2022 (UTC)