Talk:Caesar Clown

Crown or Clown
Is it Crown or Clown?81.170.200.79 13:26, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure it should be Clown. If you look at Mangastream's J-Preview (http://mangastream.com/read/jpreview/80098895/18), the RAW image on the last One Piece page has a speech bubble with CC's name in it in katakana, (シーザー　クラウン), but to the right it his name is in English. While the letters are hard to make out, the second letter of the second word looks much more like an 'l' than an 'r'. Mangastream would have had a bigger image to start with, and they said Clown in their translation, so it's probably right. As horrible as Mangareader's translations sometimes are (CC should be a bounty head, not bounty hunter), I'd hope they can read English.120.149.64.231 14:02, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Mangastream's translations have fucked up quite a bit some times in the past so I wouldn't take their word for it just yet.81.170.200.79 14:14, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Not asking you to take their word for it, asking you to decide for yourself. The link is the only RAW image of that panel that I've been able to find on the Internet - it hasn't been altered in any way except by superimposing mangastream.com at the bottom. Caesar Clown's name is written in english, and although it's blurry you can probably work out whether it's l or r based on the difference in character height between the two. Waiting for a clearer RAW's fine, but I think Clown is more likely. 120.149.64.231 14:42, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Let's wait to hear Jopie or Klobis' opinions... anyway I think "r" and "l" in Japanese are pretty much the same... see Alabasta vs Arabasta.

Pretty sure it'd be Clown, but you know easily how we'd be sure? When it shows CC's face and it looks Clown'ish. Lol.

No. We'll be sure as soon as we get a better quality raw for this chapter.


 * I was told by a translator working Alpha that it's "Clown", not "Crown". - BattleFranky202 03:33, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's Clown as well. 06:49, April 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, it's officially Clown. It's written/printed in English letters right next to the Japanese in the text bubble, so there is no debate, and no possible way if misunderstanding except for the incompetence of whatever scanlation your reading. - BattleFranky202 20:02, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

So, does that mean that his first name should be Ceasar? Because that's what I'm seeing in all the scans. At first I thought it was just a typo, but if his name was written in English...I'm trying to find a shot of it. 20:11, April 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * In the J-Preview, Mangastream writes him "Caesar Clown", and if you zoom in you can make out the "l" instead of the "r" in the name "Clown". Ceasar should be a typo.
 * So as Trivia: "Caesar Clown is the first character to be named by Latin script furigana."? ;) -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 21:45, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not doubting any of this, but I'm just having trouble seeig it. Where in the pic exactly can you see his name? 21:50, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * The one already posted. First picture with Caesar's name. It doesn't make sense to have Furigana on Katakana script, and if you zoom in (Firefox: ctrl><+>) you can at least see "C... Cl..." ;) -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 22:34, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Pics or it didn't happen. SeaTerror 21:53, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I see now. Thank you. 22:59, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

It's definitely "Caesar Clown":

Wish Oda is intending to do that more often…

I uploaded the raw for the infobox image, so there should be no more doubts: it's Clown.
 * 海賊-姫 05:25, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * He actually looks like a clown. More of the creepy "Joker" type clown than a goofy clown74.99.77.194 18:48, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Gal just changed it to "Crown" based on Vol. 68 recap page http://i.imgur.com/jdVAm.jpg Personally, I think we should keep "Clown". What's written in the actual manga should have priority over these recap pages. I'm almost certain there has been errors already.

It's the latest romanization. We have to keep it unless Oda spells it as Clown again. 23:19, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Canon wins out over SBS in this case. Until it's spelled Crown in the manga, it stays Clown. This was decided a while ago on the name spellings forum. 23:22, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

What? SBS is most definitely canon. 23:26, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

My mistake, I was thinking about two things at once. Recap should yield to canon. 23:31, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Recap is comparable to databooks: it's only supervised by Oda, not written by him as far as we know.

So this recap page is not considered part of the SBS then? And that makes it "Clown" since that is what was used in the manga, right? 23:38, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is still Clown. 23:40, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Bounty hunter or wanted man?
Some say Caesar was a former bounty hunter, others say its wrong and that he has a bounty on his head, which one is correct?81.170.200.79 18:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I read the manga. It said he was a bounty hunter. Eddy1215 22:51, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Some translations say bounty hunter, others say bounty head. We'll have to wait for Klobis or Jop to look at it. 06:53, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I read that he's a former bounty hunter with a bounty currently on his head. Besty17 09:10, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Probably, but I doubt it was stated in the chapter that he had a bounty, everybody is speculating on this, so you can found all kind of fake information on him.

Looks like this matter is settled now with this weeks chapter. Don't know to many bounty hunters with bounties on there own heads. just look at Zoro. --Kingluffy1 20:23, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Group
How should we name the group of Caesar Clown?

Appearance
His appearance strikes me as familiar. Like its based off some kind of japanese tradition or something. I dont know maybe like a kabuki style sort of. What do you guys think? Does his style look like its based off something to y'all? --Kingluffy1 18:47, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I mean his hair looks like the hairstyle a kabuki dancer would take. However, to me he looks like a mixture of a kabuki and a mad scientist. Yet the real kabuki look archetype that I've seen in this story would be Kumadori.74.99.77.194 23:30, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Laugh
I'm reading that his distinct laugh is 'shulololololo' not 'shurorororo' ... I'm asuming the scanlators I'm reading from is incorrect? PhoenixRising101 12:21, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Seeing as we now have a reliable translation source of recent chapters (Shonen Jump Alpha) we can see if they repeat the same laugh pattern as the fan translations. 14:03, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Shonen Jump Alpha is reliable? SeaTerror 16:16, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Josef Mengele
Did anyone see anywhere any possible connection made by Oda-sensei between real life Nazi doctor Josef Mengele and CC? Also Vegapunk may be related to Baron von Verschuer. A basic difference is these Nazi eugenicists worked on twin research, not giantification. 193.140.168.108 07:41, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

I can see the connection to Mengele too. Also to quote Wikipedia's article on Mengele: "The facility provided better food and living conditions than other areas of the camp, and even included a playground. When visiting his child subjects, he introduced himself as "Uncle Mengele" and offered them sweets. " It sounds kinda like Caesar, doesn't it? Virus Dragon (talk) 23:00, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

Ryūsei Nakao will voice Caesar Clown (From Jump Festa 2013)
 It's been announced that  Ryūsei Nakao  (Freeza) will voice Caesar Clown in the upcoming

 Punk Hazard Arc in the anime.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=836

98.124.47.102 17:39, December 22, 2012 (UTC)Pieman

Volume intros
Who is the one making volume intros? If it's Oda, wouldn't Crown be correct?

Assistants, most likely. I would say that these recaps are kinda on databook level. Anyway, the manga is the first source, so nothing to change for now.

Caesar as Doflamingo's subordinate
As of Chapter 713, page 3, Doflamingo declared Caesar as his subordinate (not ally), and Issho comments that as long as Caesar is Doflamingo's subordinate (not ally), he shall be pardoned of all crimes. Shouldn't we reconfigure everything about Caesar's affiliation with Doflamingo, from ally to an actual member of the Donquixote Pirates? Like this one, move Caesar's position to the actual members section, and change his affiliations in his info-box? 01:55, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * And while we're at it, shouldn't Caesar's bounty be considered as revoked, since Issho pardoned him of his crimes? 01:57, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

yes-- 01:59, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it's clearly stated in this chapter that Caesar is Doflamingos subordinate. 02:10, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I thought Doflamingo simply said that so that he cannot be captured by the marines ._. FirePit (talk) 23:33, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Well, he said what he did, so it counts until/unless something else pops up. 00:23, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed since he doesn't get arrested his bounty should be considered as revokedVazelos3 (talk) 20:46, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

Not exactly. In this case, his bounty would still be active but Caesar would have immunity. There's a difference. 21:21, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

So you mean if some bounty hunter beats Ceasar and delivers him to the marines, Ceasar won't get arrested but the bounty hunter will still get the reward money?Vazelos3 (talk) 21:40, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

No, getting captured is different. 21:53, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

As far as I have understood it, when a captain of a crew becomes a Shichibukai, ALL the bounties of the crew get frozen. Issho merely confirmed it. As long as we accept CC as a member of Donquixote Pirates we should consider his bounty frozen. And I read Vazelos comment as a paradox if we consider CC's bounty active, while CC himslef with an immunity. K the AWC (talk) 16:10, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

It's like when a person wanted in one country gets asylum in another country. That person doesn't lose their wanted status, but they still can't be touched. 21:16, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

So is with the Shichbukai, since their bounties remain. All that change is "the asylum". In the shichibukai case the title is his "asylum" and in the crewmember case his captain's title is his "asylum". Personally, I'm not seeing any difference. K the AWC (talk) 22:44, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

They're still susceptible to the law. Remember when Arlong got out of Impel Down after getting placed there by Vice Admiral Borsalino? He had to be released into Jinbe's custody after he became a shichibukai. If Caesar goes rogue, he can still be susceptible, even with Shichibukai protection. In short, it's really a gray area, so just keep it up there for now. 03:12, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

Relationships with the Donquixote Pirates
Since Caesar has relationships with more members of the Donquixote Pirates aside from Doflamingo (a.k.a Joker in the Underworld), I think there should be a sub-headline of "Donquixote Pirates" under the sub-headline of "Allies", shouldn't I? It's unlike with Shanks who has relationships with only three members of the Whitebeard Pirates (not including defector Blackbeard): Whitebeard, who was a fellow Yonko, Marco and Ace.--212.150.174.180 17:55, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Aside from Buffalo and Baby 5, whose relationship with him didn't seem to be anything more than a hostage grateful to be rescued, who else in the crew have we seen him interact with? The only other one I can think of that he's even shared screen time with is Jora, and that wasn't enough for them to interact. 20:43, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Well, he seems to be familiar with all of them as he´s able to recall their names inmediately, which implies he´s interacted to some degree with them in the past.190.195.10.57 02:25, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Trivia Question
So I found this on the web. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Caesar_(pirate)

Do you think Oda could have been influenced by this for the name? They both have Caesar in their names.JJWarlordMaster (talk) 18:17, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Could be possible. Dinosel (talk) 18:31, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

The thing is, we can't just reference everyone ever called Caesar. I accept that this person is a pirate and shares a name, but that's still kind of weak in my opinion.

18:34, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

his name origin
His name is written in japanese シーザー (Shīzā) while the roman emperors are written カエサル (Kaesaru), but Caesar Salad is also written シーザー (Shīzā), which would fit into the Whole cake island arc food name theme. CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 00:54, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Caesar doesn't originate or reside in Totto Land, though. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:06, March 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you know where he was born? he at least has connections to them. and as i said, the salad is much nearer to his name then the roman emperors CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 01:33, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

That is majorly speculative. He doesn't have a food theme. 01:38, March 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * where is it speculative? it IS the same word, while it is NOT the same word as julius caesar CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 01:40, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

That doesn't mean he has a food theme. I could argue just as effectively that Oda wanted that spelling for the sake of easier phonetics. And, as Kaido said, he didn't originate in Totto Land. 01:45, March 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * but his name is NOT based on gaius julius Caesar, where the whole trivia part is based on, which btw, is pure speculation on wrong words. i mean that he (might) has no food theme is one thing i accept, but it still doesn't mae him a roman emperor CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 01:51, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

It was still romanized as Caesar. Whether one wants it to mean the salad or the emperor is up to the individual. The extra symbolism speaking in favor of the empiric similarity is cited in the trivia. 01:56, March 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * why is it "up to the individual" when its a totally different word? CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 02:01, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the original empirical title Caesar is pronounced with a k sound, but everyone I know and their mother pronounces it with an s sound. Not too far out there that Oda would do the same. Plus, there are elements to his name, design, and history that correspond with a kingly theme, whereas there is nothing connecting him to Caesar Salad. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 02:11, March 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * in english its pronounced with s, yes but in Japanese not, and oda is japanese. and also julius Caesar was not a king he was an emperor, romans hated kings because the ones they had long before caesar rised were tyrans. and when you now want to say it would be technicaly the same, no it isnt, an emperor is much higher in rank than a king, for example in the german empire the emperor ruled over many kings, so did the empress of india. CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 02:18, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

The King of the Land of Death
While this wikia doesn't use much that's conjectural, he does call himself "the King of the Land of Death" in Chapter 691. So the For can be used here and on new pages or sections for events or places that don't exist yet.Rgilbert27 (talk) 16:32, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

By that logic, every time Luffy is mentioned in the Relationship section there should be a For directing to chapter 2. Rhavkin (talk) 17:56, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

The For template is meant for if a term redirects to one specific page, but there are other pages bearing the name. "King of the Land of Death" does not redirect to anything at all, and does not warrant a redirect, as it was only used once. Putting that phrase in wiki search does not take you to Caesar's page, and the first result on a Google search is the chapter page. So it serves no purpose and is not helpful. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:34, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

That's not what I meant Rhavkin. "King of the Land of Death" refers only to Caesar in-universe wise as it's a title imposed by him.Rgilbert27 (talk) 21:29, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

And ""Straw Hat" Luffy" refers only to Luffy in-universe wise as it's his epithet. Rhavkin (talk) 21:40, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

That's not the whole title.Rgilbert27 (talk) 23:33, June 4, 2019 (UTC)

Edit War
User:Dragonus Nesha, do you have a repudiation to the comments I made in the most recent edit beyond just undoing it? Because if not, I'm going to return it to the version that I worked hard to clean up and update. The Pope 22:56, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll wait to see what DN has to say about it, but currently I support the changes made to the page by Buh6173. It seems appropriate to update Caesar's color scheme and the rewrite to the intro of the page looks fine. Damage3245 (talk) 23:03, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

I was wrong about the color scheme; that's why I changed it back to ScientistColors. Starting off Caesar's introduction with his scientific focus is a better choice because it's the through line for his character in the story. A reference to NEO MADS isn't needed there since it has its own paragraph later and the group isn't more story-relevant than his previous actions. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 14:53, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

His current faction is NEO MADS, therefore that should be in the article lead. The other revisions I made, which you broadly undid, were truncating cruft so that it would read as a basic summary of the character instead of a play-by-play clearly being added week by week as new information came out. The Pope 23:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

A character's most recent group isn't always the most relevant detail about them. Plus, the fact is still mentioned in the introduction. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 01:31, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, I'd argue Caesar being an "expert in chemical weapons of mass destruction" isn't his most relevant detail either, his ruling over Punk Hazard and his ownership over MADS is. Also it's okay for it to be mentioned twice if the first mention is literally just three words. The Pope 03:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Splitting Pages
Per the policy about splitting character pages after 100,000 bytes, I suggest Caesar Clown's page be split between Introduction and History. AverageLiteratureEnthusiast (talk) 02:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

It's only 331 bytes over, and is unlikely to significantly grow any time soon. Unless he becomes important again, there's not really any reason to split it. Walrsu (talk) 02:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)