Talk:Charlotte Linlin

Her life sapping power is obviously a devil fruit abilty
so why aren't you guys specifing that? it's not haki and we barely have seen any other example of weird powers that didn't come from devil fruits.5.45.142.109 17:56, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

alright, theres no disagreements from you guys, so i did it myself.5.45.142.109 18:51, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

You literally waited an hour. Simply stating that she has the ability to do that is perfectly fine without dabbling in speculation and hypothesis. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:14, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

how is it speculation when all signs point to it being a devil fruit power? as i said, we have no instances where a non-haki power turned out to come from something other than devil fruits. you tell me, is there anything else in one piece that gives characters powers other than haki? 5.45.142.109 19:29, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

The power of non-canon can do strange things, young AWC. Strange and terrible things.

19:33, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Big Mom also has acidic saliva, which also seems more like a Devil Fruit power than anything, but obviously Big Mom can't have 2 DFs.

There is no point in drawing conclusions unless it is absolutely integral to the page. Big Mom's abilities section does not suffer from the lack of a Devil Fruit classification. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:03, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

alright. lets say this very specfic power to sap other people's life span is not from a devil fruit. what else is it from? how else could she do something like that? i keep asking this question yet you avoid it.

you guys act like you have no knowledge of the lore at all.91.186.244.22 20:47, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

At this point, we can all agree it's 99.8% a Devil Fruit power. But on the chance it is NOT, that is what makes it a potential speculation. 21:16, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

"you tell me, is there anything else in one piece that gives characters powers other than haki?" Life Return. SeaTerror (talk) 22:45, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget Rokushiki in general. I mean, yeah it's training-based, but so is Haki for the most part, and when they're firing shockwaves from their fists it doesn't really matter anyway.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:55, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Personally, more then "it's a DF or not" I find more complicated describing the power itself, therefore it's better just describing her abilities. As Kaido said, it seems she also has acid saliva. People also speculate that she is behind the talking objects, but then what exactly is her power? Which abilities come from the DF and which don't? If we don't have a clear understanding of what her powers are, we are likely to drawn the wrong conclusions about her DF. If it was something simple like the Gomu Gomu then it wouldn't be an issue.

her power is what we saw of her, don't bring other things in the mix. she took someone's life span away. that is a very specfic power that doesn't come with either rokushiki, fish man karate or haki. it is a devil fruit power, and you guys should state all of what you have seen of it so far. which also includes the bit about cowering and fear.

the fact that she has acidic saliva means absolutely nothing, it could be a deformality or anything else. mihawk has yellow eyes, moria has a gap in his chin, kinemon can speak with his farts, and other op character that escape me atm may have weird bodly deformalities that have nothing to do with their power.

whats important is that we saw her use an exotic power on someone, a power that is very very likely to be a devil fruit, because what else could it be? we have an established universe guys, we're not following a new manga here.91.186.244.22 00:16, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah well, until someone says "She's a Devil Fruit user" or "She ate the [something something] no Mi", or weaken her with seastone cuffs, let's not jump to conclusions. 01:43, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Yatanogarasu is correct and has said all that needs to be said right now.--Sandwichman2449 (talk) 03:46, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

one piece wiki, i present to you... your contradiction of yourselves:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Jewelry_Bonney

Because Bonney doesn't have two different paranormal abilities. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:11, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

you seriously should consider special education. answer me this, between acidic saliva and life span draining which is more likely to be a deformity and which is more likely to be a devil fruit power?

did you know that in real life people could have a low PH concentration in their saliva? it won't reach corrosive levels of course, but we shouldn't be surprised that it does in this fictional work and to this character, who was established as having an eating disorder so...

95.172.209.202 17:34, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

I think you are missing a crucial point here: it's not like we are missing informations, we are still describing her abilities as far as we know them and that won't really change by stating they derive from a DF or something else. When we will have more clear informations, we will state she has a DF power. It's not like we want to hide something.

Also your theory about the saliva it's purely speculation, simply because no matter how you cut it, you cannot rule out it may comes from her DF. I personally believe the life drain, the saliva and the animated objects are all effect of her DF. But that's what I think, that's why I'm not pushing to state it in the article.

That was an awful comparison since all of the supernovas were said to have Devil Fruits in a databook. SeaTerror (talk) 18:27, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

In Oda's world, anything is possible. Lots of characters have special abilities that don't come from devil fruits. She might flat-out have witchcraft. Or maybe Big Mom is using one of her crewmate's powers instead. It could be the hat. Who knows? It's not confirmed yet. No sense in jumping to conclusions. 22:03, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

you people are illogical, self contradictory and deserve every bit of ridicule you get from the one piece community. i feel like i have wasted my time.

I don't see how we're being illogical. Unlike other people with paranormal abilities, Big Mom has 2 that don't particularly seem connected. If we listed the life force pulling as a Devil Fruit and not the acid saliva, and it's later revealed that they're both from 1 DF, then we would be wrong, and our speculation would be to blame. We don't cater to the One Piece community and their beliefs, we document One Piece in a straightforward and accurate way. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:34, July 8, 2016 (UTC)


 * If you're just not clear on how we discuss things, the rules are sort of laid out here.


 * 14:56, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

So yeah, it's at least 7 against 1 here, clear majority. Kaido, close this off.

14:58, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

@Anon: we all know that big mom has a df, we are simply saying we don't feel it's appropriate to state it yet. You came here, start insulting and raised a fuss because we didn't abide by your will and you didn't even question your position. I think we have dedicate your whims plenty of time, I bet you are part of that "one piece community" that's below 13 years. Goodbye.

"We don't cater to the One Piece community and their beliefs, we document One Piece in a straightforward and accurate way." That's not exactly true either. SeaTerror (talk) 17:40, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Big Mom is a giant Part 2
Last year Grievous67 started a discussion that is now archived and I believe that with the latest chapter we need to review it.

I know that the translation is not 100% reliable, and that is why I waited for the raw to be released, but I'll use what was said in the mangastream translation and I'm sure any mistranslated terms will be pointed out by someone.

In short, she said "My dream is [...] to enjoy a meal with my diverse family at eye level [...]!! Caesar [...] use the power of science to gigantify my entire family!!"

She pretty much said that she is a giant and she want her family to be giants as well. Barto mafia family (talk) 14:31, August 2, 2016 (UTC)

No, she didn't. And I think it should be obvious from the scenes where she's next to Jinbe and Ceasar that she's nowhere near the size of giants.

You, like a lot of people, seem to misunderstanding Big Mom's dream. It's not about her wanting everyone to be as big as her. It's that she wants ALL races in her family, including giants and dwarves, and she wants them all to be the same size. Look at picture where she talks about her dream. From left to right you can see: human, mermaid, bear mink, longarm, giant (warrior helmet) and dwarf (pointy nose). So, to have all the races on the same eye level, she needs to scale everyone (including herself) up to giant-size. 14:54, August 2, 2016 (UTC)

Could it be that Big Mom was an ex-experiment of the giantification progress? I mean we already saw a tantrun similar to the one of the addicted kids of Punk Hazzard. Caesar claimed that the giantification progress has been developed for centuries under different scientists and considering that Big Mom is pretty old it could be possible that she was one of those first experiments. Even if its true or not, Big Mom is not a giant... she might be giantified but not a giant. Dinosel (talk) 18:44, August 2, 2016 (UTC)

Awaikage, you can't say she isn't a giant base on her size. Bastille is a small giant and Sanjuan Wolf is a colossal giant. The sizes of giants aren't obsolete. Barto mafia family (talk) 19:50, August 2, 2016 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say she is human because she cannot logically be anything else: the initial doubt was between her being a human or a giant, however now we also saw a good number of her children. If she was indeed a giant, then all her children would be half-giants, including Charlotte Praline being a Wotans. However Praline seems to be a normal mermaid and the others normal humans.

Linlin is not a giant. And yes if she was a giant her kids would propably half giants as well. Dinosel (talk) 09:53, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

First of all, I think there shouldn't be on a separate discussion from the one above it. Secondly, Praline is a mermaid and wotans are half-fishman. And finally, we don't know how giant biology works so you can say that they are half giant but that the humans gene is dominant. Barto mafia family (talk) 10:08, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

A marmaid can be born from a fishman and vice-versa, therefore both of them can generate a wotan.

Do we not already call her a human? That's should be the default. But yeah, she's obviously human. Latest chapter once again affirmed that there's a lot of big humans in One Piece that are just that - big humans. The applejuice guy is about the same size as Linlin and was confirmed to just be a disproportionate human, not a giant. It's pretty pointless to try to argue "half-giants" etc. since that could be said about literally any character. I could say Brook is quarter-giant since he's so tall. See? Pointless. 11:26, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

Leviathan, the first part of your sentence has nothing to do with the second part. Yes, a mermaid can be born from a fishman and vice-versa but that has nothing to do with the topic. And obviously they both can birth a wotan but Praline is a half-mermaid and wotan are half-fishman. If Big Mom is a giant, and IF praline was fishwoman than she would have been a wotan. The first part is the topic, and the second is a fantasy. Either way, that doesn't prove Big Mom isn't a giant.

Awikage, yes we already call her human, but the resent chapters gave another possibility. First of all, how can you tell applejuice guy is the same size as Big Mom? and second, your right, it's pointless to discuss the percentage of a random person giantness, but with Big Mom it does have a point because of her dream.

And again: way isn't this part of the above discussion? Barto mafia family (talk) 15:20, August 5, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't the above discussion solved? (I don't see Active Discussion there) and that discussion was trying to make the point she is a giant, I'm trying to make the point she is human. I don't see why I should've posted there.

That discussion wasn't over, it's just that no one comment in a couple of days. I think it just need a few more chapters for it to be completely close, or a infobox. And there isn't any point in the discussion "Human" until there is evidence that she isn't, which is discussted above. It is like your making a counter argument to the "Big Mom is a Giant" in a separate discussion, especially if the only other race you vetoing is giants. Basically both of them can be one discussion called "Race", but I thing we can already cross-out dwarfs, longarms, longlegs, minks, fishmen, sky base races, and devil fruit based; whats left is humen, giants, merfolks (older then 30), and cyborg. Barto mafia family (talk) 08:55, August 6, 2016 (UTC)

We should keep her status as a human for now. This discussion must close here coz everything else is just a speculation. Dinosel (talk) 09:13, August 6, 2016 (UTC)

Active discussions have the template, therefore since I didn't see one I assumed it was over. However I don't really see the problem here, since we are discussing about her race and the two sections are consecutive with each other. Basically there is just an header in the middle, it doesn't change anything about the discussion or the arguments. If she is a giant, she is not a human and if she is a human she is not a giant. If you are more confortable just remove the header "Human" and there you have one discussion.

For now, the wiki should consider Linlin as a human, who happens to be unusually large. This discussion should be closed until further information about her is revealed. As of now, calling her anything other than "human" is pure speculation. 04:43, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

What Jade said. SeaTerror (talk) 02:45, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Alright clear majority. 18:15, August 18, 2016 (UTC)

Regarding the "acidic saliva" stuff
With the revelation of Big Mom's DF power revolving around souls and not corrosive spit, I looked back at her introductory chapter and found this page. Here, Big Mom makes note of how she's so excited to eat Fishman Island's candy that her stomach acid is "overflowing". I also looked at the other reference for her drooling, and there's no indication that her saliva is corrosive on the one panel featuring it on this page (by comparison, her introductory scene had the liquid emitting steam even while it was still in her mouth). Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that the "acidic saliva" appearing in chapter 651 and nowhere else was actually Big Mom spitting up highly corrosive stomach acid due to desiring FI's candy. Now, I know saliva in real life helps the human body break down and digest foods and that this is most likely Oda exaggerating something for comedy or what have you, but I feel like it would've been made note of in other scenes (such as her rampage in Sweet City) if her saliva really was that corrosive. With her explicit mention of overflowing stomach acid, it seems the more likely scenario that some of it came up into and out of her mouth like bile - again, not very realistic, but very much within the realm of OP's history of exaggeration (lolmilkhealsbones). Thoughts?--Xilinoc (talk) 06:21, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

As you already said i think it was just for comedy reasons. Its a comon thing for glutons to be depicted as having highly acidic spit and stuff. Dinosel (talk) 07:51, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

Broken Refs
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Mom#References

You have to finish to write [5], [13], [64], [128],

Fixed 23:09, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Mama's Devil Fruit powers
Hello!

Perhaps someone can add something about this to the Big Mom wiki page, I was rereading some old chapters and suddenly noticed this:

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/829/8

Here Big Mom can be seen conjuring (I think) Prometheus in her hand, and throwing him, causing a fiery explosions. Perhaps this can be added to her powers.

In the following pages she can also be seen generating flames and electricity by punching.

212.64.4.50 23:01, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

There's not really any evidence that suggests Big Mom conjured Prometheus in that scene; it would be just as likely that Prometheus approached her and she grabbed him right as the scene shifted to her. It's mentioned in her abilities section that she can summon Zeus and Prometheus to control the weather, so I think we've got it all covered. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 02:29, December 2, 2016 (UTC)

Most likely Big Mom devoured Mother Caramel alive. Judging by what's left of it on her sixth birthday, i can guess that she gain her Devil Fruit power from devouring Mother Caramel alive. Most likely Mother Caramel is the only victim that DF users has been devoured alive by non DF users which Big Mom immediately possess that power once she fully consumed Mother Caramel alive. Valkyrious (talk) 20:52, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Valkyrious, it's probably too early to speculate that the DF had returned to circulation to be found again later by Linlin, because there are chances that she acquired her DF power by eating Carmel (provided she actually did). It seems quite unlikely for her to come across that specific DF later through life. From what we know about the cycle of DFs (through the Doflamingo Family henchman who explained the revival of the Mera Mera no Mi, and how the Sara Sara no Mi reappeared in a nearby fruit seconds after Smiley's death) the "soul" of the DF leaves the user's body when they die and settles in another fruit that becomes a DF. Then when eaten again, that "soul" will settle in the eater's body. But in the case where a DF user gets eaten whole, would the DF's power escape to find a fruit to settle in? Or would it immediately settle in the person who ate the DF user? --Psionixx (talk) 15:01, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Image
Someone placed a huge image that the website cropped and I tried to delete it because it clearly was too big. My apologies but the coding on this page is pretty complex and I am not very familiar with it, so I deleted the template by mistake. If someone could repost the info template again I would appreciate it. Thank you and again sorry for the inconvenience.

Capitalistic
Nothing states or suggests that Big Mom is any more or less capitalistic than the default for One Piece as a setting. BM's candy tithes are entire orthogonal to capitalism as a mindset, never-minding that she isn't even demanding money.

For the sake of accuracy and non-partisan content, "imperialistic" or "hegemonic" would fix the sentence.

92.30.147.166 18:09, June 1, 2017 (UTC)


 * What does Pappug call it?--Sandwichman2449 (talk) 19:32, June 1, 2017 (UTC)


 * Pappug tries to clue Luffy in that Big Mom is not coming from a position of charity; she isn't protecting Fishman Island from the goodness of her heart like Whitebeard. Demanding a tithe (note again, not even monetary for protection is again orthogonal to capitalism, having been a central trait of ... every non-capitalist system since ever. Big Mom is literally feudal. "Feudalism" would work even better as a substitute word. (for completion's sake, charity is also orthogonal to capitalism)


 * The strongest case for the opposite is the use of the word "business". Business can refer to a capitalistic enterprise, and it can refer broadly to any regular activity a power or organisation engages in/gets up to. The latter obviously applies to Big Mom's kingdom, while the former is questionable given the lack of capital, capital motive or other traits that distinguish capitalism from other forms of power.
 * 92.30.147.166
 * ... so are there any more arguments for or against? I'm seeing a conclusive case to change the reference. 86.12.191.4 11:47, June 6, 2017 (UTC)

Rinrin Lomanization
So in Chapter 868, Linlin's name was romanized as "Rinrin" on her bounty poster. Now, I would normally support a move, but her name was romanized as Linlin in Chapter 829. So I think we should wait for the volume version to see if it's changed or not. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 09:15, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Remember, there's no L in Japanese language so they use R and they become romanized as L

Joekido (talk) 09:22, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah obviously we aren't gonna change it based on this alone since it's been spelled "Linlin" before. 09:37, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's "Linlin" in Viz's version. So, they have likely fixed the spelling in the digital releases. Adil  —  Wanna talk?  15:55, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Viz does change Oda's romanizations to fit their translation (e.g. when they changed Aladine to Aladdin) Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:38, June 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot to take that into account. Also, Stephen said that Viz retouched it. So, I guess that's that. Hope it gets fixed in the volumes then. Adil  —  Wanna talk?  21:18, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Splitting
This page reached a 100k bytes, and isn't it the condition for splitting? Not to mention the page will grow since we're not done with the arc, nor the character because even if she'll die soon (which I doubt), deceased characters have a "Legacy" section and I don't think her family\crew will let the Straw Hats leave in peace. Rhavkin (talk) 21:27, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

No obvious reason to split yet aside from the size. We've got next to nothing pre-TS. Once this arc finishes, then we can look at it, but for now there's no point.

21:39, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

Wow, I'm surprised this got to 100k so quickly. We don't need to worry about pre-TS because we didn't split Doflamingo's history. Kaido said he'd work on cutting down the personality and relationships sections, but I am for a split. 00:26, June 12, 2017 (UTC)

Split it. We didnt make the rule for nothing. Keep the history tab intact. 16:44, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, split it. Meshack (talk) 19:35, June 13, 2017 (UTC)

BM is not a swordsman
According to the definition of a swordsman "A swordsman is a person trained in the art of the sword." Not someone just swinging a sword around. If BM is indeed a swordsman then change the definiton to " A swordsman is a person that possesses a sword. BM is nnot trained and her fighting style is not compatible with a swordsman's at all. Do we add people in the swordsman category just by seeing them holding swords? Does this mean Luffy is a swordsman too? And if so why isnt Sanji a swords man since he IS trained to the way fo the sword. BM is even less of a swordsman than sanji but just coz she has a homie around her that can turn into a sword somehow makes her swordsman. Not every person usin a sword is a swordsman. Swordsmanship is an ART. Adding someone usin to the swordsman category just coz he is usin a sword is the same as callin someone a karate master just coz he can use a punch. The logic of adding any person seen with a sword to this category is flawed.

As Dino said here she isn't a swordsman. SeaTerror (talk) 04:52, December 31, 2017 (UTC)

Don't reactivate a discussion from five months ago, that if you would look at the date you'll see it was stated about chapter 873 when Big Mom chased the Straw Hats but before she actually attacked them. Since then she had two named attacks so there is a base for some past training. Rhavkin (talk) 06:00, December 31, 2017 (UTC)

The argument still applies. The discussion is active. SeaTerror (talk) 20:13, December 31, 2017 (UTC)

No, the argument does not as it was made before Big Mom used any sword techniques. She's also had Napoleon for decades; it's not something she just happened to pick up for this battle. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 20:41, December 31, 2017 (UTC)

There's no evidence it only turns into a sword either just because that is all that was seen. SeaTerror (talk) 17:48, January 1, 2018 (UTC) Napolean is labeld as a sword homieneed to speak to admin (talk) 09:37, January 21, 2019 (UTC)

Please, don't abuse the template. Simply adding "What Dinos said" does not warrant labeling it an active discussion. You haven't added to or updated the argument beyond some idle speculation.

If you feel that the swordsman category needs thinning out, then figure out some actual criteria and discuss them in Category talk:Swordsmen. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 18:19, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

You're the one who is abusing it because you just don't want to see an active discussion that is actually active. The template ALWAYS stays until the discussion ends. I also gave other reasons. SeaTerror (talk) 19:25, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

This stays active until it's resolved or forgotten. You don't just remove the template because you don't agree.

19:35, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

Big Mom is clearly a swordsman, she has several named sword techniques. 21:13, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

I agree that Big Mom can be considered a swordsman now. Saying she isn't is like saying Pica and Jack aren't swordsmen because they also use their Devil Fruit powers extensively. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:34, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

I also agree that Big Mom can be considered a swordsman now 23:26, January 1, 2018 (UTC)

Unedited for 17 days and 5-2 majority - she will be classified as a swordsman. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:38, January 19, 2018 (UTC)

Bounty
Doesn't really make sense to keep her bounty as 500 million considering she had that as a child, and because one of her subordinates has a larger bounty than that. Is it okay to change to 500,000,000 (former) or something? --  I love turtles   03:32, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

No because there's no proof it went up. Common sense dictates it would, but when we assume things like that it's only a slippery slope from then on. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 04:45, July 25, 2017 (UTC)

It should say "At least" like it used to. 13:10, July 25, 2017 (UTC)