Forum:Pre/Post timeskip switch

Problem:
We recently decided to use a pre/post time skip swich in the infobox of some of the characters in One Piece, but there are still some problems needed to be solved. There might be some other problems that i haven't took into account, so feel free to add them if you come up with any.
 * Which image do we use as default (pre/post time skip)?
 * for which characters do we use the switch? we can't have a swich for every character, because some of them didn't change after the time skip, and some characters we haven't even seen yet after the time skip.

Discussion starts here
i think we should use the pre time skip image as defaul, because this is how the characters looked in the beginning, and people who hadn't reached the time skip yet can identify with the characters easier this way.

as for witch characters should have the switch, i think it obvious that all the straw hats need it. if think Keimi need a switch too. Strawhat1 12:40, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I think it is unquestioned to use the switch function for each Straw Hat, they are the very reason why the vote was hold in the first place. As to the default picture, I don't mind either way.


 * Pro pre timeskip: People who didn't reach the timeskip yet can identify the characters easier.


 * Pro after timeskip: People who started reading after the skip can identify the characters easier.

So yeah, it's like tossing a coin.

As for other characters, well I think we should use it for every character visibly affected by the timeskip. With visibly affected I mean things like scars, growth, adjustments etc. (not just a new dress or uniform.)

Example:

Perona should have an after timeskip switch because she visibly matured in the 2 years.

Makino should not because she looks exactly the same. 12:56, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

i think we should make a list of all the characters that need the switch, so i will make a different section for the list. Strawhat1 13:11, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think we should make a list here, not now anyway. We can still discuss that in the talk pages if we decide something like Jinbe said. You can provide examples though, if you want.

As well as discussing, let's gather the problems we have to solve as well possible options. My opinions:
 * Which version to use: preferably the post-timeskip one.
 * Why preferably? Because we should still follow the "quality" principle, so if post time skip image isn't really suited for the infobox (low resolution for example) it should remain either in the gallery/history section, or leave the pre-timeskip as default until we get a better image (like an anime or a color-spread).
 * Which characters: I agree with Jinbe, only characters visibly affected by the timeskip (For example, Zeff isn't one of them). If someone wants the switch only for the Straw Hats, say it.
 * To avoid problems: past appearance (like flash back) doesn't count as "pre-timeskip" images, I think... so Hody as a child should remain in his history section. We should limit the image as the ones from the "present". So every character presented from now on won't be affected by this discussion.

About your quality principle, I kinda don't agree with your values there. Resolution - ok -, but I'm against forcibly waiting for anime or color spreads. A normal manga shot is perfectly fine as long as the size isn't too small or the quality too bad (but that goes for every picture, not really related to the switch).

Pretty much agree with your other points tho. I understand the timeskip itself as a major cut that separates the 2 halves of the One Piece series, flashbacks appearances are another matter and shouldn't be considered. 13:41, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Anime and color-spread were examples, I have nothing against manga images (I voted for the anime/manga switch after all). As you said as long the resolution and the quality are ok, then there isn't any problem. I said that because for some characters there can be only few pictures after the time-skip and maybe they can be not so suited for the infobox.


 * do you think we need to have a vote on the defaul image, or should we just discuss about it? Strawhat1 14:16, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * For now let's gather the problems we have to solve and possible voting options, then we will eventually make the poll. It takes some time to gather everybody's opinion.

List of all the characters that need the switch:
Please write here all the characters you think should have a switch. Please don't write the same character twice.
 * Luffy
 * Zoro
 * Nami
 * Usopp
 * Sanji
 * Chopper
 * Robin
 * Franky
 * Brook
 * Keim
 * Perona
 * Rika
 * Ninjin
 * Tamanegi
 * Piiman
 * Yosaku
 * Johnny
 * Nojiko

I don't think this part is needed (at least now)... it will needed if we will decide to go as Jinbe said, but we can still discuss this in the talk pages.

one of the things needed to be solved is: wich character gets the swich? if we decide to give a swich only for the straw hats, than we will deletethe list. but for now we are making a swich to all the characters who have changed, and it is a good thing that we make a list so early, so we wont mise any character. Strawhat1 14:13, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Just a list won't work because we might lose some and more characters in need of a switch might come along. We should just have a general rule and decide on a case by case basis. Bastian964 23:09, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

but we can't go through every single character! especially when most of them didn't make an appearance after the time skip. our general rule can be this: no character that appeared after the time skip gets a switch, even if it had a flashback. other characters will only get a switch if their appearance change. it shouldn't be so hard to make a list, because we don't have to pass through every character, in one piece, only the once that appeared after the time skip, so we have to look back at the chapters that are after the time skip. Strawhat1 07:40, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

i have a question - will we give a switch to characters that appeared only in "From the Decks of the World" mini series, or should we leave them out? Strawhat1 07:44, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No. Default image should always be pre-timeskip because that is what the characters were introduced as. SeaTerror 09:51, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No. Default image should always be post-timeskip because that is how the characters currently look like. It is the current policy, see e.g. Coby.

how is that the current policy? up until now we used the general look of the characters, not the current look. i think we should use the pre time skip, because of what @SeaTerror said and because people who didn't reach the time skip would recognize the characters better. Strawhat1 11:22, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it the current policy? Well, can't find a better answer than "because it is"… Here are other examples aside from Coby: Helmeppo, Alvida, Duval. I can't find any counterexample.


 * You COULD quote the guidelines on this one; The clothes the character in the image have to be at least the ones that they are most commonly seen in. A good example would be Luffy's red vest and blue pants. They do not have to be the most up to date, however if the standard clothes the character wears changes, then the new style may replace the old in such an occurrence. This CAN be changed though, its not set in stone.  ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 14:02, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I will put a note that the previous defination of "up to date" just to refers to characters like Nami and Robin who change their outfits often (see the rule after it #5), it was to save us having to update the outfit they wore every arc. Major changes weren't included... Because we never expected a major change like that of a time skip. Again, this can be tweaked to make it more defined so no worries. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 14:04, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, notice that I only included examples of radical appearance changes, not just changes of outfit (I discarded Jango for example).


 * These toggling things will have to be very definate, otherwise you will never explain "why this just can't go in the Appearance section". So guys, please make sure all of this is tidy, this will most likely end up with someone having to add a section just to explain the purpose of Appearances anyway. But right now I'm not pushing that issue until this is sorted.  I'm bored of saying that so I'll make that the last time I say it. I just hope there isn't another time skip planned in several years time otherwise this will all get very messy.  I guess we'll cross that hurdle when we get to it. :-/  One-Winged Hawk 14:31, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Sff9, the current look is what matter, but anyway there will be both options, so just say your reasons if you want. About your question strawhat1, the characters that appeared in "From the Decks of the World" were all introduced before so why not? That depends on the discussion about the "unchanged characters" though (we will vote on this too), for example, in my opinion with people like Zeff a switch won't add anything while it's worth with people like Rika.

if you think she can have a switch, than add her to the list, as well as all the other characters you all think should have a switch. it will be more organized if we will have a list and we won't have to look for all the characters people mentioned in the discussion. Strawhat1 12:17, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

should we have a switch for Makino and Kaya? they seem to have matured a lot... i don't think we need to have aswitch for Mr. 9 and Miss Monday. what do you think? Strawhat1 12:34, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I personnelly don't think a switch is needed unless theres a major change of appearance overall, but you may just want to wait a while for a better image to come up. Knowing Oda though... Ah... Thats 5 years in the future.  So that might not be a great idea. ¬_¬ One-Winged Hawk 14:08, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

When we're done, we could do with an example on the Image Guidelines.

''BTW I just opened up the space for all this to go into. I'm updating the IG today now I've got time, if anyone has an issue with anything, let me know.''  One-Winged Hawk 14:24, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No the original look is what actually matters. Whoever changed the others to post-timeskip made up their own "policy" since sff9 claims that is "policy" SeaTerror 17:32, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * All the infobox pictures of the examples I gave are pre-timeskip. It was meant to show that even before the timeskip, the policy de facto (I don't claim anything, it's a fact anyone can notice) was to use current appearance rather than original appearance.


 * (edit conflict) I think Sff9 was referring at Coby's example because he had a drastically change of appearance during the story (note: during the pre-timeskip, since we didn't see him yet), so if in that case (and others like Alvida) we preferred the newest look it's not so absurd to use the post-timeskip as default. We will vote on this anyway.