Forum:Site Problems

Layout?
I've looked through the layout guide but I'm still confused. How do you add in charts and tables? And if this isn't the right place to post this sorry, I'm new. Goddess6 18:55, October 19, 2009 (UTC)Goddess6


 * Oh that section of the wikia is dated. Like... Since the beginning of the Wikia. For beginners, you can practice Copy + paste charts and tables and practice editing by creating your own sandbox page like this: User:Goddess6/Sandbox, just add that link anywhere on your user page.  Also, [] explains a lot of the coding, though you need to really sit down and read + play with it before you understand it. One-Winged Hawk 21:03, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Section Request
Why don't you make an "Outfits" section that shows all the characters outfits? I searched all over the Internet and it exists only in this German wiki, but I'm sure it will be useful here too, for the wiki and for cosplaying!

Hoping this was a good suggestion, an Italian OP fan "vfede".

Has anyone made this section yet? If not, I'd be happy to. Please let me know! EDIT: I see no one has, so I've started it but I've never made a page before and the layout is really irritating me! >.< Any help available? Goddess6 17:55, October 18, 2009 (UTC)Goddess6


 * Nami has too many outfits... One-Winged Hawk 09:08, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Episode Page Discussion
Ok, we need to settle this. I offer my time to work in every single episode page and the format I offer is the template with the basic information as seen in Episode 001. It offers the information of the Japanese name and airdate plus the DVD that includes it from the Funimation dub version and the music that opens and closes the episode. I also offer a collage, to meet the demands of the other users, so that instead of just the title card we can have another 3 images that tell the most important plot points of that episodes, however I get to choose those images and since it's opinion based I can't say that every user will agree for each to be the best choice.

What I was thinking is to rename the pages as "Episode 000 - Funimation title". At least that way we can have a concrete base as to how to name them all. And have the following redirect to that, which can include:


 * Episode 0 (For chapters 1-9)
 * Episode 00 (For chapters 1-99
 * Episode 000 (For chapters 1-ending)
 * Japanese title from translation
 * English title from 4Kids
 * English title from Funimation

Talking for myself, the way that I have accessed Episode pages is from either using the episode # or using the Episode Guide, I have never used the title of the episode translated because I don't feel the need of learning it or wondering if that version of translation was the one that some other user used to create it's article here.

About the issue of One Piece going over 1000 chapters, my opinion is that it won't get to that many, it's already stated that Oda is a little past it's middle like 25 episodes ago, so at the most I expect around 940. I know it's a guess, but it's as valid as saying that the count will go over 1000 and both have the same probability of being true.

I can't work on adding 4Kids information because I don't have access to that version of the show other than what it's stated here or in Wikipedia, so I just can offer not to remove that. I have tried to understand it but it gets really confusing.

One of the users that wrote in my discussion page said something about an Episode Guideline page. However I really can't find it. If someone can redirect me to it we can add it to the template so that every one interested in helping the episode pages can read it beforehand.

This is all the work I offer to do. The templates, look after and correct any possible redirect that can go into them (they are redirects, they work exactly to redirect to the content, doesn't matter the page's name!) and unify the format for each and every episode page. I'll try to go with Funimation's rhythm so to keep everything with a good quality standard.

These are the changes I can offer. I know some users will disagree with me so this is the time to resolve that differences in opinion and before I waste more hours of my life working in something that could be potentially reverted I need to know what else I'm missing or if I can continue. Thanks everyone! TheMario 00:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Just some notes.


 * Despite Funimation's efforts, there are still a lot of episodes without an English equivalent. This means no English title pic and no Voyage listing.
 * At some point of the Enies Lobby arc, Ending songs were dropped for a longer opening song. It's been that way so far.
 * Pics in the collage may need to be the same size to optimize balance.
 * A lot of 4kids episodes are combined episodes and the listing is different from the original Japanese. This means redirecting maybe a hassle but not really a problem.


 * Mugiwara Franky 01:57, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi MF! I'll answer to these: Of course that Funimation has many episodes still to unrelease, but going at their peace will help me do it better and less boring. About the music, I'm thinking about doing that an "if" clause when we get there so don't worry about that. Pics of the first collage were an example, I'll take them myself the sme way I took the title cards so don't worry about that. And about the 4Kids thing, I wrote in User:Mario/Discussions that maybe a good alternative is to make each 4Kids episode a separate article, or maybe just for those that were merged together. TheMario 05:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Funimation's pacing is indeed good at the very least. However considering they've only done about 100 something episodes of a 400 episode and ongoing series, some consideration may have to be taken at some point.


 * Making articles for 4kids episodes maybe going a bit too far. Not solely because of personal preferences, but because it may add more workload and lost pages to the wikia. Redirecting the majority of them is good enough. For those that are combined episodes, just mentioning in certain articles maybe enough.


 * Another thing, the title pic maybe indeed redundant. There's already information about the title elsewhere and an English version of the title pic isn't possible for the majority of the episodes.Mugiwara Franky 17:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

My 2 cents;

Regardless of someone's opinion of what will and won't happen, can we not put ourselves in the position of that SHOULD it reach 1000 chapters/episode that we have to go back and change 999 episode names. I completely object to this idea entirely as I would not put this burden on ANY editor. One-Winged Hawk 06:47, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Secondly, I notice we are sticking with FUNimation names... So now our Guidelines mean nothing???. If we continue with this naming scheme, this guidelines is officially broken, so what do we do with this?  Do we go against our fundamental rule that we set up when we first came here or what?  This is what the founders of this wikia, of which I myself was one, all agreed on right back at the start and I simply refuse to see it abandon now.  This is like surrendering to those idiots at wikipedia and accepting that they were right, since they were the ones who insisted we stick to the dub names.


 * So either we squash the guideline, or we fix the titles. If we squash the guideline, I wash my hands of the wikia officially and forever, because I refuse to let this one go.  This one guidelines means more to me then any OTHER guideline we have. One-Winged Hawk 07:02, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You do know that the base of a law system is that said laws must apply as long as they are usefull for those that live under said law? If a law is just not working it has to be reformed so it applies to the new community, communities change and if you hope that everything has to continue the same way you'll just be swimming against a current, and I'm not just talking about a current here but almost everywhere. You have to understand also that there is a flood of new people discovering what really is One Piece as it originally was meant to be but in their own language. The Funi version is trying to be what is primarily available to viewers in America.


 * Now, I know that the changes to episode might scare you a bit for the HUGE amount of work that it seems, but that's a load that I'm risking to take and finish it, at a good pace however. As I have seen in your contribution list it's been a while since you edited an episode, many many episodes contain only statistics and a navigation template! They are very abandoned and they are an important part of what One Piece is about and I have some fun writing about them. So please, please, breath deeply and try to accept change. It's always scary to accept change but give it a chance and don't take it personally ok? TheMario 07:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Reframe this guideline? NO WAY!  This is the guideline that mattered to us right at the beginning, to the founders at the time, this was like laying down the American constitution (which I can't spell), and if we simply abandon it, it means we might as well abandon the whole dam wikia. This wikia isn't JUST for fans, its for ANIME fans also, of which everyone was when we first came in.  FUNimation is miles behind the Japanese.  And while it may change, they still have that gap and will always have it. If you abandon this now, things like Keimi mean nothing anymore and are open to become Camie again, this ties all names into the very least the Japanese translation and not an English dub.  This is why its important, this is one of our CORE guidelines at stake here.


 * As for the episodes, I was focused on simply the chapters, I linked to the episodes because I had to do a chart for the arcs. And I pleaded for help to tackle this a LONG time ago; no one bothered so I stopped.  380+ episodes and 450+ chapters done by 1 person?  Thats a bit much don't you think???? And besides I don't watch the anime, I stick to the manga.  I'm there editing things when I have time and when I don't, I'm not.  Like any editor here, I'm not committed to this as a job, I do this of my own free will and time. Though I consider it low you'd pick my faults in editing here when your the one actually going against the guidelines not I. One-Winged Hawk 07:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm just saying that even the Constitution has made amendments. Of course it's not abandoning it! It's the exact opposite. It's making changes that give new opportunities without falling in anarchy! For example, you say that the wikia is for anime fans. Imagine that you are an anime fan that just discovered One Piece and let's say that he saw a random episode. Of course he or she won't remember the title! If he looks for it in the Wikia he knows the number of the episode, which is the same for any sub version and now for Funi. About the Keimi issue, we all know that a rose by other name smells the same, that's what redirects are for since the mermaid will be the mermaid and the article talking about the mermaid remains even if the title is a version that some know and some others don't. And STILL the name Camie exists in that page as an "English name" so it's noted that you can't ignore that at the end the people who most edit this wiki has more knowledge in the English language than the Japanese language.


 * About the other thing, sorry, I didn't meant to point out anything other than the fact that I think you write incredibly good bio articles, and about the editing a a job, I make it for fun too, but I think that by offering so many changes to the way things are now in what I think is the best visual and content way, the very least I could do is to honor my word and get that to the end. Once again I ask from you to calm a bit and see things in other eyes, I wouldn't be very proud of myself if this community loses a valuable member like you because of me. TheMario 07:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Regardless, the Japanese lack of understanding of the English Language has NOTHING to do with the matter at hand, thats a pretty poor excuse in fact. Oda has always stuck to the spelling of Zoro, and he has access to quite a variety of resources. We can only take Oda's word for it when he spells something out. To dismiss say a thing would be to call the Japanese stupid for attempting a language they don't normally master. Should an English person never attempt the Japanese language? These kind of arguments are two way.


 * I'm mad, but only because this issue at hand is one I take to heart. I was there when the fights over Zolo and Zoro took place on wikipedia.  We choose to write this guidelines with that in mind, better to have the Japanese and avoid argument then to argue over the dub. People took 4Kids translation too much to heart and expected us to yield to their requests; even though we were at the W7 arc and 4Kids had only just started the BW arc.  In the end it took a loop hole to get what we wanted.  Then the next problem happened; HOURS AND HOURS upon HOURS of work deleted as it was deemed "worthless".  And the icing on the cake was someone coming onto wikipedia and simply claiming we'd stolen their site; bang a whole page of needed terminology GONE.


 * For the founders, particular those like me who spent hours arguing with wikipedians, this sort of thing was heart breaking. Even those of us that are left, I'm about the only one who endured it all from start to finish from when most of it began to the end of things.  Some of it had to change, but the core elements are unchanged since day 1.  But tell me this; How EXACTLY would you change those important guidelines??? You haven't even told me that much, you've declared that we need to change it, time to adapt, but you've not made a single suggestion so far.  How can we comparison a "all or nothing" guideline??? The only time the Japanese, in the entire history of the wikia, could not be used was for Grand Adventure and thats only because there is NO Japanese version of that game.  One-Winged Hawk 18:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

If the issue is about what titles to use for episode articles, why not just simply use Episode #. Somewhat of a compromise I guess since there can be multiple translations for an episode depending on who's translating, whether it be subber or dubber. Funi has only dubbed at least 100+ at the moment and it would be a bit broken for a list to have one part using Funi titles and the rest using Japanese translated titles.

Also there might be a chance that, heaven forbid, Funi will get tired of dubbing episodes. If that happens and if another company picks up One Piece and decides to start all over again, then there would be a massive confusion on what to name things. Best to keep things simple and not a hassle for everyone.Mugiwara Franky 10:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Mf, thats... What we had before... ^_^'


 * There is still no 4Kids version of the English titles on the templates, I see the FUNimation, but not that. Also, don't forget Odex? Theres a kettle of worms I hoped we don't have ti hunt down. Fior the Odex, I can hunt that down at the weekend.  We've never really tackled the Odex version before. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 18:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Using 001-whatever is a horrible idea. Nobody uses a format like that. Also nobody honestly cares what Funimation uses. I say they should all be moved back to the titles we had before. If we go like this then soon enough somebody will try to change all chapter names to Viz names. Everybody knows Viz is a crappy company. Drunk Samurai 18:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Using 001 is not necessarily a bad idea since it helps identifies episodes. The way the episodes were titled back then doesn't exactly help some people in easily telling right away what episode was which without going back a page. The idea however comes into conflict with some issues so using simply using Episode # is a fair enough compromise.


 * Some people care about what Funimation uses as they are considerably a better dub than 4kids. Viz has some faults what with using 4kids terms and all. It however has its ups like with it speeding up its release of One Piece chapters. Mugiwara Franky 19:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But the bottom line here is MF, we choose to stick to the closet Japanese translation we could find, that is our aim. Not using a the most preferred name; but using the none that seems correct. As far as I'm concern when it comes to dubs, we cannot pick and choose over which one to use.  May I also point out we had a "no anti-4Kids" thing going on, so making a dozen editors happy that are 4Kids haters isn't now going against that policy?  I prefer they be treated equally on par with each other, and when it comes down to it, Odex was the most accurate of the dubs produced so far, even on top of FUNimation's dub. One-Winged Hawk 23:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

001 is a bad idea. What you said makes no sense. Episode 1 is episode 1. Adding an extra 0 does nothing but make no sense. K-F is still what we should use. There is nothing wrong with their translations. If TheMario wants official English translations on a wikia then he should go join the Naruto wikia where they use all the crappy and wrong names. Also when has Viz ever sped up releases of One Piece? All they did was release 3 volumes of Naruto for like 3 months and One Piece got like 1 every 6 months. Drunk Samurai 18:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The only reason you'd use Episode 001 instead of Episode 1 is as Wikis can't properly organise the latter in numerical order (So it'd end up placing Episode 20 before Episode 3 or something like that). As far as the naming goes it's probably best just to stick with the original method, making what seems to be such a controversial move only causes hassle and prevents other, likely more important tasks, from being completed. Galrauch 20:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The normal method of handling shows is SX EXX (Season: no. Episode: no.) even OP could fit into that method, but it would make life harder for us and everyone by that system. One-Winged Hawk 23:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I say we move everything back to how it was. He hasn't even been on since the 16th anyway. There is no point to the format he moved everything to. Without a consensus I might add. Drunk Samurai 02:02, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Users can't be expected to edit the wikia on a daily basis as they have lives as seen here.


 * Having any number of 0's before a # works if there is a known number of things. If there are a 100 to 999 things then two 0's help organize things. If there are a 1000 to 999 things then three 00's help organize things. This however only works if there is a known total number of things. Since it is unknown how many episodes of One Piece there will be, the 0's don't work.


 * The titles of most of the Episodes as far as I can remember were originally simply the translations of the Japanese titles. While there were the closest, they however are a bit of a hassle when arranging things especially in the category parts of the wikia.


 * As for Viz, I'm not exactly sure of the details but according to somewhere here, they're planning to sped up One Piece.Mugiwara Franky 04:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

About the whole "Viz speeding up the release of One Piece" thing, they're actually doing it much faster than they did with Naruto: 5 volumes per month between January and June of 2010 = 30 volumes in just 6 months! You can read about it on their official website.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 05:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

The point is we should be using the names that we have been using and not Funimation's. Like I said he did it without a consensus. Also that doesn't make me think any higher of Viz. Though that discussion should be taken to my talk page. Drunk Samurai 05:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Now MF, you once had a few words with me on supporting a new editor who came in and wanted changes made to the Luffy page, at that time you backed the notion a new editor can't simply come in and demand changes. Now the take is reversed, your the one supporting a new editor that comes in and makes huge changes and all. So does things change to suit you now MF, or this Wikia?  I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to get annoyed at this, as DS has so rightly pointed out, (and myself), this SHOULD have been discussed BEFORE the changes.


 * As for the editor who made the changes, TheMario may have left us because of my previous comments. As I said to him, at the end of the day, TheMario broke guidelines, and did things without discussion; while his intentions were good ones and he helped A LOT he left us with problems and he still broke the guidelines.  I also had also said to TheMario and I'll say it to you MF, before we can go ahead with this staying, that guideline I pointed out to him NEEDS to be amended. We should either:


 * knock this discussion on the head until we've discussed that guidelines changing,
 * delete that guideline on vote,
 * or simply all agree this breaks the guidelines and come to a conclusion fast regarding this matter.


 * Yeah... I've still not forgiven Viz for messing up badly with Beyblade translations, so theres my stance on Viz. If we had to make a stand on Viz, I would be in that discussion.  I have hot blood regarding them. One-Winged Hawk 08:01, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't necessarily support all of TheMario's proposals on this. At the very least, I don't support his initial choice of formatting the episode titles to follow Funi's titles as it breaks the list. I prefer it to however it to be a compromise with just the Episode number in order to balance issues between two sides of a coin.


 * True, TheMario did change the episode titles however from what I gather he did after starting a discussion. The problem was it started abit slow and badly with too few people talking. He's not exactly a new editor per say as he's been around for some time. So far, he's edits have been helpful. It's just now that everyone's taking notice. He's also hasn't left as seen in his contributions. He's not just a random IP or editor who comes in out of the blue and demands something. Mugiwara Franky 08:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Since I rarely see any of TheMario's edits, I had gathered looking at his contributions he a) wasn't a regular or b) a recent editor as such. Maybe its because I'm used to having the crowd thats been hear for more a year around. Either way, if no one was involved with the discussion, word should have been put around on it to the other editors. One-Winged Hawk 19:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * About breaking the guidelines, to tell you the truth the only guideline that I could find in the site where the Image and Spoilers guidelines. It's true that I never read the Naming guidelines and that ignorance of the rules is never an excuse not to follow them. However, the episode pages needed a lot of work and someone that can look after 400+ pages while trying to keep them correct, informative and standardized. However, having the episode page's name as [Fansub translation] makes the name of the page inaccurate and difficult to find for readers and potential editors. I also want to note that if Toei rectified their decision to give the license to Funimation, and that Funimation is doing their best to keep the true spirit of One Piece then their version of translation of at least the phrases that give the name to the episode can be taken as the most "accurate" version of the title in English that Toei themselves can offer us.


 * OK, after reading everything that we have discussed here I think we can all settle with the following:


 * The article names should have the following set up: [Episode X - Funimation Title]. In other words, no zeros if the episode is 1 or 2 digits. This will settle the discussion of whether One Piece will have less than 999 or more than 1000 episodes. About episodes without Funimation Title, only [Episode XXX] should be used while the released of the episode in DVD happens.
 * The Template inside of Episode page should use the heroes so that as Galrauch correctly pointed out the wiki categories can be ordered neatly and by order.
 * I'll rewrite the Episode Info template so that if no Funimation release exists yet then the Template won't display Season/Voyage. I'll also condition it to whether the episode has an Ending or not.
 * I'll re-redirect all redirects. (Heh, that rolls funny in the tongue.) to the correct page. I'll also try to maintain my rhythm of 1 episode every day, maybe 2 if I have time. I'll also offer myself to continue with the photo collages, any complaint that maybe an image is not good enough or any suggestions of an specific photo can be made to my user discussion page.

TheMario 08:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there's still a bit of disagreement between people an no consensus yet. The main argument so far is having all of the episodes using translated titles or just having a few with Funi titles. As I've been saying, simply having [Episode X] regardless whether it has a Funi equivalent or not would be better as it is a compromise.


 * For the guideline, I believe this is it. While Funi may be doing a better job and all, its still on equal grounds with 4kids and Odex. Due to having more than one English dubbing company, its best to be neutral and just follow the original Japanese version.Mugiwara Franky 09:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank You MF, I actually had a mind blank when I wrote my previous comments and forgot I already mentioned it on the page. Thats the guideline that would need to be fixed in order to allow the FUNimation naming scheme to go on. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 19:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

No. Episode X fansub title. I will say no to any suggestions to using Funimation's titles. I meant to bring that up before but I forgot. My original suggestion was going to recommend all episodes be like how the chapters are numbered. Drunk Samurai 09:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Fansub titles also provide a problem to a degree as the question is which Fansub to use. Some Fansubs use fan based names, some use their own names, and some even use Funi names. Though following like how the chapter titles are named is not a bad idea as it provides consistency throughout the site. The only problem would be which names to use.Mugiwara Franky

We should just use K-F until what they have then so on with the other groups until K-F finishes. I'll be willing to edit the templates until they are done. Drunk Samurai 19:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * K-F is rated as the most accurate of the regular subbers, however even they make mistakes. Just watch for any possible mistakes in their either works like "merman" instead of "fishman". One-Winged Hawk 19:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No. Just no. How can you leave something so important in the hands of a bunch of people that as you say "make mistakes" in the way they label the episodes. I vote that if we are not going to use the Funimation title then we leave it as Mugiwara Franky suggested, as [Episode X] and that's all. TheMario 05:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * PD: If what you want is consistency I also nominate that all the Chapter pages be called [Chapter X]. Without fan translated title.


 * Actually thats what we had originally for chapters and I still recon was the best option. I've been arguing over having any names in chapter titles at all for the same reason. Episode 5 is much easier to work around then Episode 5 - "Insert whatever name it is". One-Winged Hawk 05:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Nooo, actually what you originally had was [Fansub Title] and like 70% of them redirected by an [Episode X] page. If we can settle with the [Episode/Chapter X] I'll stop arguing. I still think we should standardize it to 3 digits, but if it isn't possible then fine with me. TheMario 05:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm talking about chapters there not episodes... But Yes, ORIGINALLY we had them all without a title (You've not checked out the full history of redirects here). One-Winged Hawk 05:59, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't care if they make mistakes. They hardly make any mistakes at all. Use the fansubbed titles instead of numbers. It was much better that way. Chapters should remain the same format also. Drunk Samurai 09:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The same can be said for Funimation by a Funimation supporter. Since Funimation is doing a better job than 4kids, a supporter can say, "We should use Funimation titles cause they hardly make any noticeable bull like 4kids. I don't care if they use 4kids terms or any other mistake.".


 * Having the Episodes and Chapters as Episode x and Chapter x respectively is not a bad idea. It would at most make navigating easier for the general public and not the select few.Mugiwara Franky 14:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I still say use the fansub titles. This whole disagreement is only because one Funimation fanboy was mad about the Wikia using fansub titles. This is not Wikipedia where they use official English titles 100% of the time no matter what. Having only episode numbers will have made me fixing the templates and making the redirects completely pointless. Drunk Samurai 10:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't exactly think that TheMario is mad at all about the Wikia using fansub titles. It seems more like he wants to help the wikia out in a completely ignored section.


 * Just some side notes, Drunk Samurai. If you are gonna be angry about this change because all of your work is gonna be made pointless, then that's kinda being a wee bit selfish. The wikia is free for everyone to edit and not just a select few. Changing your edits won't make them pointless, they'll just be changed. They certainly weren't pointless back then when redirects were needed. This type of re-editing and stuff is just part of wikia development.


 * If you are gonna be angry because its a super big change, then that's not progress. Everyone once in awhile a big change is needed to better the wikia. I mean you did a big change in the wikia likewise in the past. One of your first edits was taking out all the spoiler warnings in all the current events sections in all the articles, a decision not discussed forehand with the rest of the community and an action that kinda made some other's edits pointless. It however was pretty much overlooked and accepted one way or another.


 * If you are gonna be angry because of preference, then that's just close mindedness and a bit too selfish. The Episode and Chapter articles require development in a big way and someone is willing to help. If you are not gonna allow them to help the articles progress because you like the way they are now, then they're never gonna progress.Mugiwara Franky 13:26, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The change to the episodes and chapters is pointless and not needed. He is editing without an actual consensus. Of course he ignores these comments because he knows that I am right about it being pointless and him not having a consensus. The change he wants has no reason at all. It is only because he does not like anything except "official" English versions. I bet he is Goodraise or one of those people from Wikipedia. Drunk Samurai 18:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not really going to argue with you, but I'll say this: There IS a consensus, the consensus is to name episode and chapters by number and nothing else. You calling me a Funimation fanboy does nothing but remark that you are defending the fansubs like a fanboy yourself. What I have gather from your talk page is that you want things done your way and you have even been banned for being stubborn. If I were as stubborn as you I would still be pushing for adding the Funimation titles but I'm not, mostly because I have accepted both the view of others and the voice of an administrator. So please direct your personal attacks somewhere else and let me work in what I enjoy working. TheMario 19:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

There is no consensus. 2 people thinking something is a good idea does not = a consensus. Not to mention your were even working on it before without even paying attention to this. You're edits will get keep on getting reverted until you actually listen to people and stop pretending there is a consensus. Drunk Samurai 20:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey guys, cool the arguing a little. Its been decided at least we'll stick to episode and chapter no.s only from now. We have an English translation of names argument that will never likely be resolved. On the one hand the rules of the guideline ask for the closet translation, its been pointed out its not possible to declare what is the most accurate for sure and no dub name can be used without altering this guideline.


 * So we go back to our ORIGINAL format of episode titles (I screamed when we first changed from "episode x" and "Chapter X" it was a mistake) to save an argument. If we are to move back away from it, we've either got to decide on 1 accurate translation or change a guideline it seems its now boiled down to.


 * A small note on implementing problem that may be heading our way from reading your posts. If there are edits wars, please remember MF may step in any any point to end them, as Edit Wars are against the rules and are vandalism or at least post productive. Take note, if an edit is reverted by two people more then twice, it may be considered the start of an edit war I suppose. DS, please, please, you've been in those before; I suggest if TheMario and you get into this situation you seek out MF. Your a good editor, please don't edit these silly wars thats not your best points. Also TheMario, if MF has made a discussion and there is no new discussion pointers, I suggest you think this over for a few days and come up with something new.  If you want your ideas to stick, a cool off period to rethink your proposal might do you wonders; consider it if you don't like what we're suggesting.  A lot of people do leave a conversation if they don't get their way in a hump, but few are prepared to rethink things through and come back with a better idea.  ^_- One-Winged Hawk 22:27, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm just gonna list this down since it maybe getting a little confusing for some.


 * TheMario has suggested a change in episode titles
 * Angel prefers not to use Funi titles due to it breaking guidelines
 * DrunkSamurai prefers not to use Funi titles but prefers Fansub titles
 * I, Mugiwara Franky, suggested to just use Episode X as a compromise
 * Angel and TheMario agree to this compromise
 * For consistency sake Chapters are suggested to be also Chapter X
 * Drunk Samurai doesn't agree to this compromise because of various reasons against TheMario


 * So I'm gonna ask is there or is there no consensus among most of the editors. Please state your final verdict as to whether to change the Episodes and Chapters or not. I really can't help out until things are cleared up.


 * Personally, I think that 3 editors have come to a consensus and 1 just wants to do things his way and not helping to resolve the matter with his comments. Mugiwara Franky 03:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree there is. One-Winged Hawk 06:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with changing them too. TheMario 07:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with making the change. Kaizoku-Hime 07:55, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I Disagree with the change. Also that makes no sense easier to navigate? That's why the redirects were created. Besides even if you change the Episode numbers you still have to change the content too. Gum Gum? No way. Original Japanese 100% no matter what. Drunk Samurai 08:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Only the titles will be changed, the contents will not be changed. The episode and chapter titles will follow the original numbering they were given in Japanese.Mugiwara Franky 12:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Look at what I had to edit. TheMario put Gum Gum instead of Gomu Gomu. In fact he even took out a plot synopsis for no reason. Drunk Samurai 18:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Long Spaces
I'm sure some of you may have notice this already but for those who haven't I bring them up to speed to this problem. There seems to be some editors who have been placing long spaces between templates, most notably the navigation ones at the bottom. Since it seems to be abit too widespread to be just a single editor, I decided to try editing the wikia through a different computer. To my surprise, it seems the spaces are apparently caused by something in site. I'm not exactly sure what is the cause but at least it proves that there isn't some kind of prankster doing this. Mugiwara Franky 14:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems to only affect anons, probably some new users as well. Really don't fully understand what is going on. Mugiwara Franky 14:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We could try reporting the problem... I had something simulair with the main page, it does this from time to time, it adds things to tables while in Rich Text mode. I wouldn't be sure, but Rich text MAY be what causes the anons to get spaces.  If it causes oddities in one thing, maybe it causes them in another? :-/ One-Winged Hawk 16:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I kinda think so too cause when I edited as an anon when testing it out, this Rich Text thing popped out. What is this Rich Text thing anyway? I don't know too much about due to my preference setting in viewing the wikia. Mugiwara Franky 16:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There are two ways to edit: Rich text or Source.


 * Rich text is an "easy" editing system that acts as you would expect from say, M.Word. Source is the typical coding where you enter things manually, its what we started from the beginning using.  You now: , , [[Image:whatever.PNG]] all this coding stuff we should be familair with.  You CAN switch between the two, but once you save in Rich text format, thats when you get probs.  Rich Text adds oddities, I saw this happen once in another similar site, which is why I made a fuss and a half about Rich text coming here. Also, Rich text comes up by default usually which ticks me off.


 * If I knew how to make source dominate I'd set my profile to edit that way preferably. Both you, me and several others have been here long enough to have only to worry with Source Text anyway, Rich Text to us is pretty useless; its for noobs mostly. One-Winged Hawk 16:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. Though I'm an admin, I have no idea how to set this Lazy Text off. If I find out how, I think I'll turn it off so that it'll stop causing problems for the site. Mugiwara Franky 16:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay so far as I understand seen here, it's something that's more of a preference setting than something a wikia admin can change. I'll try to ask help from the main wiki for this matter. Mugiwara Franky 16:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thw site calls source text "wikitext"... For some odd reason. I'll note that much. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 17:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Chapter appearances by character
Just made an account today, but I've been visiting this wiki for a couple months now. Today I noticed that most of the chapter pages list the characters that appear in them. I was thinking it might be useful to create a page listing all the characters and what chapters they appear in and/or including it on each character's page for quick reference purposes. I am fully up to taking on this task, though it will take some time for me to complete it. I mostly wanted to make sure a) no one was already doing this, b) that it a page like this didn't already exist and I just hadn't managed to find it, and c) if anyone possibly wanted to help with it. It might be silly to do this for the Straw Hats since they're in most every chapter after they join the crew; but for all the other characters, especially the recurring ones, it could prove useful. Lils 15:21, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I'd protest but there exists list pages for other things so... Yeah go on. A page for all characters. Regarding the SHs, since they don't appear in all the chapters, (even Luffy's had a break or two I recall) they can be included too. But save them for last. One-Winged Hawk 21:54, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know if you should or shouldn't include Pandaman... Leave joke characters for now. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 21:55, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * I realized awhile ago, but didn't come back to edit it, that I forgot I can make each character's section collapse-able so you wouldn't have to look at 500+ links for Luffy unless you wanted to. I've got a good idea in mind for formatting it so that it'll be easy and unobtrusive to c&p to the bottom of individual character pages as well. Lils 22:05, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well if your up for it, sandbox some ideas. One-Winged Hawk 22:29, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Have done so. Lils 01:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have an excel table which contain the reapparition of main characters (well I don't promise it is exhaustive), are you interested ? However, it contains only the chapter after the arc where the character is introduced.
 * For example if we take Buggy, I have something like
 * buggy reapparition
 * buggy cover story
 * Luffy's execution : 99
 * Buggy and Ace : 233
 * Shanks Whitebeard II flashback : 434-05
 * Impel down : 526-18 (I don't put the chapters after this one, since he is then a recurring character)


 * Also Tipota has made a table in List of canon characters article which give the first apparition chapter and episode of every characters (it is currently updated). I'm not sure it is necessary to have more info for characters who sometime appear only once in the manga. Kdom 00:15, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think its ness. to go in deeper then first appearances, character reappearances are normally listed on the chapter page itself. So chapter 32 lists all the characters that show up, chapter 52 does the same, or in theory thats whats suppose to be there.  Character get their chapters linked via the "history" section when referenced.  This creates a two way link between character and chapter, something a lot of our list pages are struggling with as of late. One-Winged Hawk 00:35, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Whoa...
I've looked at the Spoiler Rules page and checked over the history page... You know I don't even recognise my own edits there? I'm reading it and it totally doesn't hit me I wrote some of that text until I read the history page and see, yes I did in deed write that. I get this a lot on the wikia, a lot of the pages just don't seem like me at all. Weird. O.o' One-Winged Hawk 22:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

..... Well since this was dated to 2007, I guess just you edit way to much in the Wikia that you'll end up forgetting

Joekido 10:35, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * My edits got a little lazy over time when I wrote that message thats why I was surprised. Lol, I still do this every so often, look back on what I wrote and think "I wrote that?" because it doesn't sound like a normal edit to me. One-Winged Hawk 11:42, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Your VERY OWN Picture-Guy
Hello. As you have noticed,I have uploaded over 50 images. Regard me as you semi-official picture uploader. If there is a pic missing, then tell me and I'll try and find it-most of them are on the wikipedia, but for those that aren't I go to the Simple Gallery, or a german anime screenshot page. However, I have problems, because I have not been able to find any pages with the screencaps of episode 151 and for the current episodes- which is not SO bad, but it only means I'll have to get the screenshot from the manga. I WILL but you will have to understand that at times the images may be a bit low quality, depending on the scan.

To get back to the point-report a missing image/pic/flag and I'm on my way. Just put it into my talk page with the title "Picture Request 1(and following numbers)".

User:New Babylon

Pirate Terms
I think they are getting silly. We've got pages popping up now that don't have links to and fro and are sloppily being put up. I'm not saying we shouln't have them, what I'm saying is we don't need all of them. Some of them appearing on the pirate terms template have almost nothing to do with pirates and have been stuffed there simply because their a term; not a pirate related term. I think its time we replaced some with links to wikipedia, because this is simply getting out of hand. One-Winged Hawk 09:36, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I kinda have to agree on some I guess. Articles like Straw Hat maybe included to a certain degree since Luffy wears one and thus a significant subject. Articles like Poison however maybe abit much since it only appears from time to time and isn't a significant subject.Mugiwara Franky 09:51, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Articles like posion don't really deserve a article. On straw hat though; be honest is that REALLY a pirate term?  And "bible"? How about "demon"? None of those three should be on that template. One-Winged Hawk 09:54, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess you kinda have a point since they're abit far from true pirate terms.Mugiwara Franky 10:01, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Breaks in long sequences of paragraphs in History sections
Can we have a discussion on the use of sections within sections of the History section. I'm asking this because of a somewhat irritating dilemma brought about Buh. The problem is that he wants to have the Straw Hats to have completely uniformed history sections. There is nothing wrong with that except the sequence of paragraphs per some sections for some characters can get really long.Some Straw Hats may get little to no action in some arcs and have very little paragraphs. Some Straw Hats may get lots of action and have so many paragraphs that they may require some divisions.

For the divisions, think of the basic ruling of a paragraph structure, a paragraph requires four to six sentences so that people won't get lost. The same can apply to divisions to very long sections. A section that has a set number of paragraphs is not only easier to read but also easier to navigate and edit.Mugiwara Franky 14:24, November 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I can't deny the pointlessness of really short sub sections with one paragraph and that I want to express the oppposite direction of being too long is not a problem for me to handle... But I don't mind so long as there are: 1) only the actions of that straw hat written there and no one else 2) Paragraphs to begin with so we can read it 3) references, which are struggling to be added again. I wish I could be more useful, but rereading old chapters is something I have little time for at the moment, so I'm not editing history sections right now. One-Winged Hawk 19:22, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I would support shorting them up because I happen to agree that long titles are overly silly

Joekido 10:37, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

===Whats wrong with long titles, long titles are fun and productive and show how much we love talking abut nothing, yes their great, that is long sentences with no full stops to end, oh look a flying cow, and a two headed deer... lalalala...=== Sorry... I couldn't resist a joke. I'm freezing my butt off in a cold home and on top of that I'm bored. @.@ One-Winged Hawk 11:30, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Buh boy loves long title and can't shut up

Joekido 11:33, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * My joke wasn't directed at Buh, it was a general moment of insanity due to cold hands and boredom. But it does prove a little point in the process. I prefer short, snappy, eye catching ones like I wrote "bloody and murderous" or something for BB's page. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 11:38, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ridiculously long title aren't really the main issue but they however are somewhat part of the problem. Due to the length of ridiculously long sections, they sometimes require ridiculously long titles as a short title might not be enough to describe the situation. An example would be Sabaody. With just one arc section, it appears the section requires somewhat a long winded title called An Incident on Sabaody Archipelago and the Destruction of the Straw Hat Crew to describe the section. However if you split the entire arc section into smaller sections, like splitting the first part of the arc involving Keimi getting kidnapped twice and the second part where the Straw Hats get separated, you get at three titles that are somewhat shorter in essence. Main arc title: "At Sabody", 1st section: "Slavery and Bubbles", 2nd section: "Legendary First Mate and Separation" for examples. Mugiwara Franky 12:10, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Some of the titles need to be shortened but there really is nothing wrong with having them. Drunk Samurai 16:45, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Length Vs Efficiency
This is a bit off-topic, but the discussion about length vs efficiency make me think about it. I already made a warning (without much success) : The Arc pages are becoming ridiculously detailed. If I want to know everything that happen in the manga, it's easier to read directly the original than reading these articles. Is it possible to decide of a logic about them (and apply it)? Kdom 11:39, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with keeping it short and sweet. I've complained MANY times about the length of the history sectin on Luffy's page.  Worst is when others' fall prey to writing EVERY event in an arc including bits not to do with a character.


 * And while that thought is up, "Sandersonia's Sister" was used a dozen times on her page. She was there at the events so its all right to use "Boa Hancock". Using it a dozen times felt repeatable and like we don't even know her name.  It actually got on my nerves to read. One-Winged Hawk 16:50, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Main article
SOMEBODY UPDATE THE MAIN ARTICLE Coldhandzz 12:35, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Note
Rather saying "not a forum" can we from now on move such discussions to our forum and leave a link to the page its been moved to. That is all thank you and good night. :-3 One-Winged Hawk 10:55, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Foxy Arc
This arc and all its characters seem neglected. I know its one of the weaker and unpopular arcs, but we need to get something done with the characters and events. There are pages that have hardly been touched since day 1 of the wikia. One-Winged Hawk 11:13, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've kinda worked on Foxy and his Devil Fruit a bit.:-/Mugiwara Franky 12:36, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been working on the races as of late. Still not satisfied 100% even now.  I don't know what else to do with them though, halted until I can wrap my brain around them again.  Not helpful today I've kinda tired. One-Winged Hawk 15:26, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Editing Comments of Others
Okay an argument with DS, MD and myself. Basically, MD edits and corrects the spellings of others and DS argues that no one should edit others' comments. My view; so long as its not meant to be insulting, or is altered to say something entirely different from its original meaning it should be okay to correct spelling mistakes. When I was at wikipedia it was perfectly fine to do this as it made life a lot easier for everyone.

So opinions, what are everyone's overall views? I agree that a user talk page is under almost full control of the said user. So long as your not altering comments or just deleting when things don't go your way, or running a campaign against something theres no queries with how you set up your user page. Its our other pages that are in question here. On the one hand, their open for the entire wikia community to edit freely, but WHERE does that freedom end? One-Winged Hawk 14:42, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * I completely agree with Angel Emfrbl's on this matter. As long the editing is strictly spelling correction and not alteration to the point that it reflects someone's else opinion or it's insulting to the user it should be okay to be edited. After all, the reason most comments are often kept in archives and aren't deleted from the page itself is because they are left to be seen by people because they carry information about resolved issues, problems in need of attention and argumentations on something controversial. Not all users that come to this wiki speak English nor it's their primary language. Some people could very well get confused if in a word a letter is missing or it's in the wrong order. Especially people who are using site translators. Drunk Samurai is partially right about editing other people's comments because it could lead to a series of problems like the above mentioned and I can understand his concern about the issue BUT arguing just for the sake of arguing is childish and won't lead to anywhere. That's my opinion and my thoughts on this, I'd like to hear the opinions of others too. MasterDeva 15:27, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * *Actually can't stop laughing since I made 3 spellings mistakes that needed to be corrected apparently!*


 * Lol. X-D One-Winged Hawk 16:46, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * XD MasterDeva 16:51, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Honestly Drunk Samurai is clearly too integrist on this point. After all he is undoing some part that does not belong to himself. Technically he is contradicting himself. If you want your spelling mistake corrected you can't do it in the current status. As for me, since I'm not fluent in English, I'm always glad when someone corrects me. Kdom 20:00, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the support Kdom. I'm glad to know that I can help and be of assistance. By the way, your vote would be appreciated here it's about the Eneru/Enel issue. MasterDeva 20:29, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Kdom has a point (psst, you didn't sign your comment with ~ Kdom) and actually I'm jealous since I didn't think of that point (darn it!). One-Winged Hawk 20:32, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Damn, I thought about it, but I always forgot in the end, I should right it first :-( Kdom 20:45, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't sweat it, better late than never as they say! ;-) MasterDeva 20:56, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

The comments only belong to the person who created them. They do not belong to anybody else and only the person who created them has any right to edit them. Drunk Samurai 22:15, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Repeating the same thing over and over again like a parrot and acting like a problem child doesn't make your point any stronger! MasterDeva 22:37, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hate to say it but a point has been raised, undoing the edit of another is likewise yourself commented the same act, whether you like it or not. If you truly believe that the edits belong to only that person, then it means you cannot undo the edits made to anyone else's comments but your own.  And under what rule do we place it under?  Its hardly vandalism.  We have no rule to cover editing of comments, and until now its been largely an unwritten rule that only the deleting and altering of others comments was a bad thing.  Hence the discussion here was opened.


 * In your court, you say we can't alter anyone's edits, but not the full "why". On our court we say its okay so long as its not an attempt to mock and humilate the person, and the other things I've said I'm not going to repeat.  At the moment, there is a greater reason not to be concerned unless the serious stuff kicks off.


 * Still, lets get word around and make this more formal shall we. Theres only the opinions of 4 people here thats hardly enough of the wikia. One-Winged Hawk 22:46, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Editing other's comments simply for spelling errors is indeed okay to a point as long as the overall content is not change. However there are some exceptions I think.


 * 1) If someones notices the spelling error and points it out in discussion and the original author decides not to edit his comment, correcting the spelling error might make any further discussion strange.
 * 2) If the spelling error is documented along with other comments as a record of a particular discussion then correcting it maybe a violation of the documentation.
 * 3) If the spelling error was intended as a insult or compliment, correcting it might change its original effect.

That's all I can think of know. Mugiwara Franky 05:05, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly Mugiwara Franky, you nailed it straight to the point. So far I tried to be careful not to correct any mistakes in phrases that seemed intentional, jokes or ones that are referred to further later because it would make the whole discussion strange. If I'm in doubt I'll leave it as it is, there are sometimes though I can't even understand what they're trying to say! 0_0' LOL!! MasterDeva 09:25, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Would the removal or correction of redlinks be considered a spelling edit as well? I ask this because for me, it would be the main reason to edit the coomments of another user. El Chupacabra 14:04, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

I think that when it comes to spelling and grammatical mistakes on the official articles, it only makes sense that someone with better skills is allowed to fix them. The point of a wikia page is, after all, to provide information to the reader, and not to stroke the ego of the person who wrote it. I've come across several articles where the writing was either child-like or illegible, and I don't mean to offend any writers when I say this. As long as the information is kept constant, no one should complain. We should strive to have the clearest information, and not be fighting over smaller issues.

A person's own user page should be entirely up to them, though. Sephirona 16:16, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

You shouldn't be looking at talk page comments to correct them in the first place. They do not belong to you and never will. Editing them proves you think they are yours. Also this isn't about article pages Sephirona. It is about talk page comments. Drunk Samurai 17:07, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Huh, if we don't look... How are we suppose to communticate? One-Winged Hawk 17:08, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

You're supposed to read them. You're not supposed to read them just to edit them. Drunk Samurai 17:15, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, my mistake. For a moment I thought we were talking about actual articles, not the discussion pages of those articles. In that case, I've personally never corrected anybody's comments. It's entirely up to them to type with proper grammar, though it's best they choose to do so as to avoid miscommunication. For purposes of documentation, I'd think it's actually best that another person's comments aren't changed - readers should be concerned with the results of that discussion as editted on the official article, and not what's on the discussion page. Seems like a waste of my time and energy to go around editting how a person chooses to speak on his/her own time, imo. Sephirona 17:28, November 24, 2009 (UTC) Sephirona 17:28, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

How many times do I have to say it Drunk Samurai that I never claimed or thought that I own any user's comments besides my own!? Stop making things up because that's not the case and you will end up exposed in the end!! To the second point you made I don't read them just to edit them rather I edit them for other people's sake so they can read them AND comprehend them.

The same principle we follow to make articles comprehensible applies almost(spelling check only!) to the talk pages were various issues about the articles are discussed and resolved. One of the reasons that these discussions are kept, (then later moved to archives), is that in case a similar problem arises the whole process that lead to the solution won't have to be repeated again.

As I have said already, this is all about the people who don't have English as their primary language and small problems like spelling or grammar keep them away from not understanding the context of a sentence that's been written incorrectly, it all comes down to that. MasterDeva 18:57, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

The One Rule to Rule them All
Don't add comments here, I'm just separating this for reading purposes. Here, thats the only thing that we have within our rules to speak of this sort of thing. One-Winged Hawk 22:59, November 23, 2009 (UTC)