Talk:Vinsmoke Family

Infobox Image
Should I add Sanji as the info-box image? Something better than nothing. 22:30, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

We can use Sanji for now & make a proper infobox later when they're introduced. We could use Sanji's father, since he seems to be the patriarch. It's also possible that they have an insignia, as these sorts of families sometimes do.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 22:45, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that'd be good. We can also put Big Mom in the Charlotte Family infobox. 02:10, January 29, 2016 (UTC)

043
Okay, I wanna bring this up here. How is this NOT an Easter Egg? Rei(0)ju and Yon(4)ji's names, combined with San(3)ji's name, all make up the number of Sanji's first appearance. Oda could have used ANY other number, like Eichiju or Niji. But instead, he introduced the Vinsmoke Family with numbers that correspond to that specific chapter. No "rhyme or reason" for the numbers? I don't think that it's just a coincidence that Oda would choose these SPECIFIC numbers to introduce the family in. Oda very often has Easter Eggs in One Piece, and this is just one in the form of a chapter title corresponding to the family. Specifically, the way the family was introduced. 08:14, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

100% agree. He chooses any two numbers and they just happen to complement San-ji to make his appearance chapter? Oda doesn't do accidents like that.

10:32, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

It's just as silly as the "Gear Fourth was introduced in Chapter 783 which is the chapter where Gear Second was introduced backwards (387). There are just so many ways to manipulate numbers that any sort of chapter number trivia is banal. The only evidence of Oda structuring his story around a chapter number is chapter 100, where he rushed Loguetown so they would enter the Grand Line in it. "Oda could have used ANY other number, like Eichiju (sic) or Niji" - obviously they have a different role in the story and need to be introduced later, like how Mr. 1 and Mr.2 were introduced long after Mr. 8, Mr. 9 and Mr.0. 104.238.45.96 12:03, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, what the AWC said. This is just reaching, the "0" doesn't even factor in at all. 12:16, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

It's not much of a reach since it's something that can actually be discovered in the first glance. When I noticed these specifics numbers, I wondered what chapter Sanji first appeared in. Did a quick search, and it's true. I don't think it's the same as the Gear Fourth thing, since I'm pretty sure nobody ever noticed that unless they paid REALLY close attention. This trivia doesn't require as much attention. "0" DOES factor in the trivia, too. It's not usually written, but there's an infinite amount of zeros before the 43. We just don't write them.

Besides, what's wrong with having specific coincidences like this in the trivia? It's not very broad and it lines up extremely well. Even if Oda didn't intend it, it still seems worth noting. 06:20, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

The problem is you rearrange the number to suit the trivia. If you go by that so other orders should be consider: Chapters 340 (Sanji's working alone) and 403 (Sanji won't Hit a woman!) are also relevant so they should be consider as well. However, in the upcoming chapters we will probably be introduced to other family members and apparently the number in a name is standard, we know that there is at least two other brothers (1 and 2), and we don't have five digits chapter number, I think we're jumping to conclusions to soon. Rhavkin (talk) 07:28, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Chapter 034 (Numbers in ascending order) - Kuro's plan revealed.
 * Chapter 40 (The current family members introduction order to date) - Usopp Pirates disbanded.
 * Chapter 304 (Nicest in descending order)- Introducing Long Ring Long Land and teasing the Foxy Pirates.
 * Chapter 340 (The entire family introduction order to date)- Robin leaving the Straw Hat Pirates and Sanji goes after her.
 * Chapter 403 (Nicest in ascending order)- Sanji vs Kalifa.
 * Chapter 430(Numbers in descending order)- Marry's funeral.

Can't help but notice that Chapter 043 doesn't have a reason for that numbering order, and he even include nicest order (lol) 87.69.142.211 07:33, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

The entire family introduction order to date in revered order. Rhavkin (talk) 12:30, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
Vinsmoke as a portmanteau of vin (French for wine) and smoke seems logical enough to me, but looks like we're going to have to discuss it like we discuss literally everything on this site.

13:59, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

Speculation still. 14:03, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

According to our rules on adding trivia references; "Yes, but be aware not everyone will share the same opinion and "possible" connections may be considered speculation." Now, Sanji drinks wine and smokes. That's literally half his personality when he was first introduced. the other half being a womaniser and a chef. I see no problem with adding this trivia. Now either respond with a rational argument, ST, or wait a second you're not ST what is this.

14:06, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

You know who doesn't smoke and drink wine from what we've seen? The rest of the Vinsmoke ''Family. '' Basing this trivia for the family off of the characteristics of one member of it, is pretty speculative. And since you mentioned our guidelines, maybe you ought to have read this part :"10. Can I post Speculation here? Answer:No..." 14:22, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

Then we put it just on Sanji's trivia.

14:23, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

Or we just leave it. 14:24, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

1 and 2
I'm a little confused. Why are the two latest family members labeled as ?????. The chapter is called 1 and 2 and one of the brothers that we meet on the island, wears a cape with the nr. 2 on, like Yonjo had 4 on his. Doesn't that mean that we can safely assume his name is Niji and the other one is Ichiji? kenji87 (talk) 14:44, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

I did it because despite the fact that I agree with you, this wiki community says that if it wasn't directly specified in the manga or anime its speculation. Rhavkin (talk) 15:06, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

We haven't seen them named, we can't assume their names.

15:18, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

Sad but true. 15:30, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

Quadruplets
In the flashback in 833 one of the brothers said they were all born on the same day. Wouldn't that make them quadruplets? Unless it was translated wrong, we should add that. 03:14, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

On the page already Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:47, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't translated wrong. Whoever added it to the page misinterpret it. They were born on the same day on separate years. SeaTerror (talk) 06:24, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Why would Sanji care about their birthday then? He clearly meant that they were born on the same day, in the same year. If they were born in different years they also wouldn't be the same size as children. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:18, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Because it was the same day. That's also bad logic since people age differently. Not to mention they all weren't the same size anyway. Also the Japanese word for quadruplets would have been used instead of "born on the same day" if they were quadruplets. SeaTerror (talk) 18:11, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah they're quadruplets. 19:51, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Saying that two siblings were born on the same day is akin to saying they are twins. Assuming they were born in different years is much more convoluted than understanding that Sanji meant that they were born on the exact same day. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:56, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Unless all 4 mothers gave birth on the same day magically, they're quadruplets. 19:59, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

That's not how it works. Doesn't have to be different mothers. http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18273248?nclick_check=1 21:15, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

If that were true then Ichiji would be at least 3 years older than Yonji, but the two are the exact same size. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:19, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

They are quadruplets. 21:24, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

ST, as a fraternal twin, these kind of siblings (twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc.) don't have to be the same height. I have been shorter than my twin for my entire life. They are definitely quadruplets. 22:38, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who used height as an argument. We need to wait for the RAW anyway to see what was said exactly. SeaTerror (talk) 02:27, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

lit. "Why did only you turn out to be a dud even though all 4 of us were born on the same day?!" 03:50, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

And don't even try to argue "They could all be apart by a year but still have the same birthday". The odds of that are astronomical. 04:47, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

That happens as I already showed. Besides that the Japanese word for quadruplets wasn't used apparently. SeaTerror (talk) 06:00, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. A definition is as good as the word itself. Four brothers born on the same day = quadruplets. 06:06, July 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * ST, why are you obsessed with the word quadruplet? Would you recognise the Japanese equivalent? Is there even one? We have been told that four brothers were born on the same day. That is literally all the information we need to make this "decision".


 * 10:11, July 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GCb0lldiiM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m58s 11:09, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

The fact that they question why Sanji is the "only dud" out of the 4 that were born on the same day pretty much proves that they are quadruplets born in the same year. Their logic: Born at the same time = all 4 of them should have an equal mindset and equal strength. The statement wouldn't make sense otherwise. 19:12, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, "same day" is defined as the very "day" everything happened. If they are born on March 21st of different years, then each birth happened on a different day due to different years. "Same day" is same year, same month, same week, same day. 20:45, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

Trivia: Vinsmokes only royals in battle
It says the Vinsmokes are the only known royals who actively participate in battle, but what about the "Fighting King" Elizabello of Prodence? He is a royal who also fights in battles - perhaps change the trivia to say the 'only known royal family' or something that emphasises the family collectively? 110.140.2.22 13:58, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

There's also the Neptune brothers. And Wapol. And Inuraashi. List goes on. Just remove the trivia altogether. 14:02, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

We've also seen Vivi, Wapol, and the Riku family fight. Take it out. 15:06, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

I think that note was more about the commanding troops in battle part. That might be okay to add back. SeaTerror (talk) 22:49, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

I am still confused why is sanji listed as former vinsmoke
I understand if sanji was vinsmoke by marraige or even if he was adopted but sanji is a vinsmoke by blood  no matter if say judge isn't his father or judge says he doesnt see sanji as a son he can not be listed as former memeberTo love this (talk) 01:30, May 18, 2018 (UTC)

Habsburg Inspiration?
The Habsburg were a powerful family originating from Austria (a German speaking nation). It goes without saying the Germa kingdom heavily takes inspiration from a Germanic country. However this conflicts with Oda's reveal for Sanji's real world nationality being French. But the Habsburg family married into various royal families across Europe for alliances. An example being Marie Antoinette (a habsburg) marring the king of France, Louis XVI and bearing successors. This relates back to the arranged marraige taken between Sanji and Pudding for power and alliance between Vinsmoke and Big Mom. BluExorcist7 (talk) 19:47, May 31, 2020 (UTC)