Talk:Haki/Archive 1

=2008=

Preposed move
I prepose we move this from "spirit energy" to its Japanese name of "Haki". Mainly becayse we use the Japanese name for everything else on this site already. One-Winged Hawk 08:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Besides, "ambition" is a better translation than "spirit energy" anyway. So it should be moved to something else no matter what. --72.82.2.204 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

The Force?
I've been thinking that a lot of the image of Haki being regards the willpower of the user feels more like some aspects of "The Force" in Star Wars than merely just Ki such as in Dragonball. While DB does have some aspects of this, I actually was thinking of adding references to that if permitted with the way both does have the "willpower" aspect in influencing or affecting others. -StrangerAtaru 17:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait a few more chapters I'd say for more info. One-Winged Hawk 17:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * now that you said that, it also resambles the reiatsu in bleach which is their spiritual power D.Sneasel 22:48, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * In regards to the force, a quick reread of some old uni notes I had somewhere... The Force is just a reharsh of a lot of "chi" things that have been around for centuries. Star Wars was based a lot on some guys notes on religion. I remembered a tutor at uni mentioning the BBC asking her to do a program on physociology and being told she can't because the guy was sensitive due to cult links. She turned round and said "Yet you are prepared to show Stars Wars which is all based on the guy's ideas?". One-Winged Hawk 07:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the Haki concept has a lot more in line with the Force than the Ki so prevalent in other Animes. Actually, I believe Haki should not be translated as Ambition. I understand that the manga is Japanese but Kanji characters are very similar to Mandarin and the meaning is actually closer to Dominance. In Star Wars, the Force is frequently used to dominate other beings as well. And it has a lot to do with willpower of the mind in question. The Haoushoku kanji can also be translated to Conqueror's or Tyrant's. Almost every scene shown involving Haki involves crushing the will of limited opponents. (well except for empowering weapons).

Shanks with Haoushoku
I'm pretty sure Shanks has the Haoushoku ability, as well. One Piece Chapter 434.
 * It seems like it but unless stated, it can also be speculated that he has a higher form. P.S. please sign your comments with " ~ " Mugiwara Franky 23:24, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Some say Rayleigh has it too, however, we're jumping to conclusions if we scream out "Haoushoku!" at every big Haki user. We need more info! One-Winged Hawk 19:06, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Just because Luffy knocked out some people with Haoushoku, that doesn't mean every time someone was knocked out by haki, it was Haoushoku. If Rayleigh and Shanks have it, Roger probably does too, and three people with a one-in-millions attribute on the same crew seems ridiculous. Not impossible of course, but it's too much of a stretch to assume it's true based on so little. --72.82.8.94 19:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * When Rayleigh used his Haki, it had the same, for lack of a better word, 'line' effect (Many lines stretching away from the centre of the panel) as luffy had when he used his Haoushoku. In Romance Dawn, the effect is not used by Shanks. Also I think it's quite likely three one-in-millions people to be in Gol D. Roger's crew. Haoushoku seems a very powerful weapon, and I wouldn't be suprised that people with it rise to great things, such as being in the Pirate King's Crew. Not going to add anyone to the list however, until confirmation.

People are still adding Shanks and Rayleigh to the list... Why can't we wait for confirmation on more Haki info? One-Winged Hawk 09:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

It was stated that rayleigh used haki in the auction house and we can probably assume that shanks used haki on the lord of the coast


 * Right thought, wrong subject. Also sign your posts with " ~ " please.One-Winged Hawk 20:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I had an interesting thought on the Shanks and Rayleigh having Haoushoku Haki or not debate. We have several instances ::where it is directly stated in manga regular haki is used or haki is explained to have such an effect.


 * Haki makes blows and weapons stronger: 'omg luffy punched the cat that hard without haki' and the arrows being made ::stronger with haki


 * To allow for a person to hurt a devil fruit user: the two younger Boa sisters hurting Luffy with bludgeoning attacks which ::is stated to be haki


 * To predict attacks: Younger Boa sisters are explained to use it to predict attacks


 * There is only one singular time that anything is called Haoushoku Haki and that is when Luffy used it to knock out the ::Kuja. The way the Kuja state it implies heavily that what gave them the clue that it was Haoushoku Haki was the effect. ::Just look at chap 519 page page 18 again. One of them states "Could this be?" Aother "the warriors are fainting" Another ::"Just now that was Haoushoku Haki" Another " No way only a one in a million people is capable of using the haki of the ::chosen one"
 * One of the Boa sisters" I've never seen a person aside from ane-sama who could use it" (who could use it implies he was ::using it)


 * One more important thing I almost left out. When Marco states that shank's haki is as strong as ever that does not mean he ::was using regular haki. A little like how Ace's line to Luffy didn't mean there was an actual pirate summit this can ::easily be misinterpreted as out right stating Shanks was only using regular haki. Marco stated "His haki is as strong as ::ever" which is a little like saying "Hi kick is as strong as ever" when a more exacting statement would be "his super ::ultra deluxe round house kick of death is as strong as ever" or "his sword is as sharp as ever" actually meaning "his ::sandai kitetsu is as able to cut through things as it ever was". WHile it doesn't necessarily imply that it could not have ::been haki it also doesn't imply it could not have been haoushoku haki.


 * Keep in mind this is just one person point of view right or not. Nor does my stating this imply that I think it should be ::outright stated in the wiki that this is the case. At most it could stated that this might be the case or is hinted to be ::the case. Immolo 22:51, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

I like your point of view, but I wonder why the discussion ends here, I wanna know why Shanks (and Rayleigh)are not on the list if the discussion ends with a "he should be there". 85.50.94.230 16:03, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Hancock's mastery
After much debate about Hancock's last line in chapter 519, Aohige finally confirmed that she said Luffy hadn't mastered Haohshoku, not herself.

http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=977136&postcount=254

He's a Japanese native and a very reliable translator, so we should fix anything that says she hasn't mastered it. --72.82.8.94 20:01, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Backed by stephen's translation --72.87.65.87 02:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

right here it says even i havent mastered it myself luffy doesnt know about haki so i dont think he said it and the only other person is hancock READ


 * Just confirming this as it was never settled and I don't want this to get a chance to really be picked up; don't trust onemanga.com completely. It takes the first reasonable translated scan it gets and almost never updates unless to up quality normally. This means inital bad translations never get fixed. That translation in THIS case is wrong. I'm noting this because every so often, someone takes that incorrect onemanga.com translation as FACT when its not. It gets really dull really fast.


 * Also, please can I take a moment to remind everyone to sign your posts with " ~, its considered proper mannerism, and can be taken as rude if you don't sign. Plus it helps to track a conversation. One-Winged Hawk 20:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

=2009=

Rework this Entire page
Ok, usually I don't pop into this Wiki because of the Extreme amount of Fanboyish Bias that exhists here, but I need to say this before this page confuses someone.

The fact of the matter is that we know Next to nothing about "Ambition". (Haki in Japanese and Weaboo) I don't remember Reileigh, Hancock, or any of the Other Kuja for that matter saying ANYTHING about Ambition being some form of "Spirit Energy" that this wiki page flat out says it is. We know almost nothing about it, yet this page talks as though Oda's explained in an SBS that "Haki, being a holy untranslatable word, is the Way characters can tell how powerful Each other are, and Luffy's is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAND!!". This ENTIRE article should be rewritten so that it's all speculative, because the way I see it, this is probabily going to end up being nothing more than characters literally imposing their Ambition or their Will onto their opponent, and being able to predict the movements of a weaker-willed opponent and it literally won't be a power at all.98.165.238.23


 * What is mostly stated in the article is what is shown and known. True we don't know much and true it isn't exactly spirit energy like in Dragon Ball, however the way its been used appears to be based from the same original basis the whole other anime and manga are based on.


 * Chi, as its been originally been viewed in real life, can be used by certain people to knock other people down without touching them. They're basically throwing some internal unseen force from their body at their opponents. Whether this is real or not is another matter, this concept is what Haki's main and first uses appear to be based on.


 * Though it may turn out no more like you said, the fact it got some emphasis means that it may turn out to be something more. Also just because its not a visible flashy thing like in Naruto or Dragon Ball, doesn't mean its not spirit energy. I mean the Force is an invisible concept yet its considered similar in concept with Dragon Ball's Ki.Mugiwara Franky 14:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * So, what you're saying is basically "Yeah, it can go either way, but I think it's this way so that's how it is" then? Ah, like I thought, Fanboy Bias. We know Pretty much NOTHING about it, so this article should reflect that, just in case there are people who take the things this Wiki say as fact, it will confuse them. 98.165.238.23


 * It's not Fanboy bias but basis on what is presented. Haki, as far as it has been shown, resembles a form of Spirit Energy. How else can one explain the whole knocking people out with one's own ambition? The whole concept of Haki in fact appears to based on the original concept of Chi. How can one not say it resembles anything else?


 * We are just writing here what is known. When more facts come, then it will be changed to clear up confusions. If you can provide a better explanation to be used in the article then please provide, cause complaining how much fanboyish and confusing this article is ain't much help if you can't provide anything else.Mugiwara Franky 08:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I like to point out that its translatable to "Spirit" anyway as well as ambition, so its a form of "spirit energy" whether you like it or now by that translation. And please, sign your posts with ~ it makes it easier to follow conversatins knowing where your speech ends! One-Winged Hawk 10:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It's literally the Character's Ambition and Will being stronger than the others, so they're able to intimidate the other, or read the weaker-willed person's Moves. That's all it is. 98.165.238.23 11:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Marguerite and the other Kuja infused their arrows with Haki to make the arrows more destructive. It's obviously more than that as you can't intimidate or read arrows.Mugiwara Franky 11:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not saying "I know what it is" I'm saying "There are differing theories as to what it is". Nobody knows, everything we have now on it is pretty much speculation as to what Ambition is based on what we've seen so far, which is very very little. All I'm saying is, this section needs to be rewritten to be speculative instead of outright stating things about it as fact. as in, Instead of "It's Spirit Energy" maybe "It's a mysterious ability that some have theorized is some form of Spirit Energy". My problem isn't with the theory, but the fact that the theory is presented as if it were known fact. Once Oda tells us "Ambition is ______" Then this section can be solidified, but it needs to be speculative until we KNOW what Ambition is.
 * Maybe rework the whole page to refer to it as a Mystery Ability (Basically take the Luffy approach to it) and then add a "Speculation and Theories" section about what it may be. 98.165.238.23 06:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Looking at the article, it seems it's just the first sentence of the page, "Haki (覇気) is a form of spirit energy of sorts that only a few characters can use.", that you have a problem with and not the whole page. Except for this sentence, most of the page doesn't seem to explicitly state that Haki is Spirit Energy. It mostly states facts and stuff that is known. As for the sentence itself, it somewhat seems speculative and ambiguous due to the "of sorts" part. It's like it's not definite on the concept. There seems to be no need to completely rework the page entirely. Maybe the sentence if it irks you but not the entire page.Mugiwara Franky 12:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There, Left pretty much everything alone, just made a few additions to clarify how little is actually known and that it's mostly fan speculation that it's some form of Spirit Energy. 98.165.238.23 03:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Haki was first identified here by Hatchan which is where everything started rolling in.Mugiwara Franky 04:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I must say from parts of the way that you wrote, you either think that everything that was originally written was made from pure speculation, or you didn't research deeply. Despite Haki not yet fully explained in detail by Oda in the manga or the SBS, there is actually alot of stuff that has been shown about it. Let me list down the evidences.


 * First use of Haki by Shanks (note: appears to be initially intimidation at this point)
 * , Shanks dropping Whitebeard's weaker men
 * , Luffy using Haki against Motobaro
 * Rayleigh using Haki on Disco (note: Disco is not paying attention on Rayleigh meaning it's more than intimidation)
 * Giant figuring out that the burst of "SPIRIT" that hit Disco was from Rayleigh
 * Shalulai being hit by Haki by Rayleigh (note: again victim's focus is not on Rayleigh)
 * Rayleigh hitting everyone but a select few
 * Hatchan identifying what Rayleigh did was Haki (note: this means all previous instances of this happening must be Haki also)
 * , Kuja arrows exploding upon impact
 * Marguerite stating that her tribe infuses Haki to make arrows stronger
 * , Marigold and Sandersonia using Haki
 * , Luffy using Haki and his level identified
 * , Luffy stopping all the wolves at Impel Down to protect Bon-Chan

This means that we don't know NOTHING about Haki but we at least know SOMETHINGS about it.Mugiwara Franky 05:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We do know SOME Things, but for example, the thing Shanks did in the beginning of the series was never stated to be Ambition, for all we know it could be something like Mantra where he did something different that just brings about the same result. About the "Burst of Spirit", that was a translators Choice. all that's said is "Haki", the translator just didn't know how to fit "Ambition" into the scene in context so they changed it to Spirit. besides, it doesn't mean Spirit "Energy" just spirit as in Fighting spirit. Again, not saying I'm right, just that there are other ways to interpret the information we have. For example, I'm positive that all this is is the characters imposing the conviction of their ambition onto others. Yes, even the Arrow thing. Why is that? Let me explain it this way: in this Manga, Sanji uses an attack that literally lights his leg on fire. How the hell does that work? Why does it not Burn him? Why does it not Even burn his CLOTHES?! When Oda was asked, his answer was "The Fire in Sanji's heart burns hotter than the fire on his leg". SOMEHOW the fire in Sanji's heart was able to keep the fire from not only Burning HIM, but his PANTS TOO!! In a Manga where THAT can happen, people imposing their will into their weapons isn't really a stretch98.165.238.23 06:12, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * o anu mga pak syit kayo pinaltan ko na ung mga article kahapon tapos ako pa ung pinagalitan nyo sinbi ng lumabas na un eh maghirap kayo mga pak syit!!!Rainelz 01:11, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * o anu mga pak syit kayo pinaltan ko na ung mga article kahapon tapos ako pa ung pinagalitan nyo sinbi ng lumabas na un eh maghirap kayo mga pak syit!!!Rainelz 01:11, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Gol D. Roger
I say that Gol D. Roger was a user. I am pretty sure that he use "Haki" to win allot of is battles! Young Piece 22:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not the slightest hint he had or had not yet... YP, please be aware the rules here aren't the same as Fanons, we can't write speculation on or open chaty discussions. Annoy = very. But its like that for a reason. :-( One-Winged Hawk 00:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I know all the rules I was just saying what I was thinking! Is that breaking the rules? And I know that is not stated or that you and all the other user know I know! Young Piece 02:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum. 77.46.214.97 04:12, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you random IP adress but thats not helpful you know... Okay lets make it clear here: it is not against it, we can't punish you for doing it, but we wholely discourage it. The talk pages are for discussing the content of the articles. If it clutters up with forumish talk then we've got problems. :-( One-Winged Hawk 10:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes this is not a Forum, but this is a talk page and I am talking about Gol D. Roger and what I think and I wont put it on the Haki page because it's not confirmed. Young Piece 20:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Speculation?
Isn't it pure speculation that Shanks used Haki in the first chapter? When is it ever said that it is? It seems to me that after the concept of Haki was introduced, people said "oh...this, this, and this must have been Haki." While I personally would agree that Shanks used Haki to save Luffy, and when he brought Whitebeard's crew to their knees, it is never said to be Haki and is therefore speculative. Same goes for Rayleigh fighting Kizaru. The article should say "It is believed that 'x,' 'y,' and 'z' are examples of Haki use, but none have been confirmed." 24.231.109.233 14:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The one with Rayleigh hitting Kizaru maybe abit speculative at the moment but the one with Shanks is definitely Haki. It's not stated but common sense based on the following circumstances.


 * Shanks stared down the eel in the first chapter.
 * Luffy stared down Duval's bull similar to how Shank's stared down the eel.
 * The bull was knocked out.
 * Rayleigh knocked out several people in the same manner in the Auction House.
 * The technique of knocking people out in that manner is identified as Haki by Hatchan.


 * By simple common sense and deductions based on this, the thing that Shanks did was definitely Haki. It doesn't have to be necessarily be said to be identified as Haki.Mugiwara Franky 14:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If such a method of deduction is required, it should be stated that that is how one would come to that conclusion. Furthermore, if Haki is identified as knocking someone out in such a manner, then what Shanks did would not be Haki because the eel was not knocked out. I think your line of reasoning is weak, but more importantly, weak enough to merit its inclusion so a reader can draw his or her own conclusion. Or, as a simpler alternative, saying that it is speculation. As I said before, I too think that all those examples are Haki, but there is no hard evidence for any of them. I think the introduction should state how little is known about Haki and that there are numerous examples that are speculated to be Haki. Then in the examples section, the title should read "speculated examples of haki use". Its not a huge change, but it would be a lot more encyclopedia-ish.24.231.109.233 15:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The eel indeed was not shown to be knocked out but since the way it fled is the same as the way Motobaro fled, its pretty much the same thing.Mugiwara Franky 15:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

OH, OH, we can add this to you list; in chapter 536, Luffy stares down all of the wolves in a very similar fasion resembling shank's stare down with the Lord of the Coast --Kingluffy1 22:33, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think we should presume Haki levels not only have abilities but strength until proven otherwise... One-Winged Hawk 23:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Adding shanks used haki in chapter one sound very bias and something a fan wants to believe rather than actual fact. I think it's more suited as "it is highly believed". I mean it could be like zoro's devil stare or does that mean zoro can use haki now or anyone that scares someone with a stare are haki users too? Again you don't need to look into someone's eye to invoke haki proven by rayleigh. Another, haki (in the anime) always has some kind of nose or wind to it. Oda-sensei might has well said to the anime staff that haki has sound effect were as there wasn't any wind effects when the episode. What I am tring to say is there are facts saying that shanks did use haki and there are also facts saying he might not have. I think it's best you guys change that part until oda-sensei says it was in an sbs or shanks or someone says it was in future chapters. I'm sure more and more people are going to keep questioning that part of the article until it's changed supported by how long this discussion is already. Didn't luffy knockout those wolfs and the byson? hasn't every animal been knockout after haki was confirmed with the stare I might add. Like the previous people said "your reasoning is weak" and that part in the article is Speculation. Thank you for your time.86.169.247.179 18:00, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * You're the only one who has ever questioned it. Nobody else will because it was obviously Haki so it will never be changed. Also who is this Oda-sensei that you mentioned? I only know who Oda is. Drunk Samurai 00:04, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not the first. it wasn't confirmed has haki so it's still just Speculation."obviously" isn't good enough to make it haki. It's only a bias suggestion that isn't a fact, simply because you want the first chapter to be a connection. I was expecting a better post. come on??? I'll never trust this wikia again, when you don't even know people call every published manga-ka by sensei has a show of respect. I'm never coming here again. Now I finally understand why people don't trust wiki.86.169.247.179 18:00, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * wait... wait. you don't put zoro has the first mate because it hasn't been confirmed by luffy but you put chapter one has haki when that hasn't been confirmed to be haki by shanks or someone WTF??????? Isn't zoro obviously the first mate. You're such a hypocrite86.169.247.179 18:00, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Nobody cares. The wikia would be better off without somebody like you. Also it was sarcasm since you're obviously not Japanese so you wouldn't need to use sensei. Zoro is not the first mate because there is no first mate. Drunk Samurai 03:15, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Drunk Samurai please don't bite the newcomers. It's disrespectful especially if you don't explain things nicely.


 * For the Shanks part, it's not stated but it's clear from other scenes. The scene with Motobaro and Luffy, and the one with him and the wolves both resemble the scene with Shanks. There you see Luffy clearly do something similar to Shanks.Mugiwara Franky 05:49, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Your so busy arguing with this guy DS you didn't have a thought to ask him to sign his posts with " ~ ", this convo is hard to read and I've just had to layer it out to make it easier to see who said what... And even now I'm not sure. One-Winged Hawk 09:28, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * It seem no matter what I say you won't change the article, so I'm not going to bother. BTW drunk samurai there are many things wrong with your second reply I'm going to consider it a troll Thank you for the sensible reply Mugiwara Franky, BTW (again) people who don't take others seriously and reply with sarcasm are what this wikia is better without. Peace out.86.169.247.179 18:00, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Again sign your posts with " ~ " please, it can be taken as rude by some if you don't, plus it can cause convo confusions. One-Winged Hawk 15:52, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

sorry86.169.247.179 17:58, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it, its a minor thing a lot of peeps do. One-Winged Hawk 21:09, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * I've seen that the Admirals had been added to the Known Busōshoku Haki Users list. As Admirals, it's obvious that they can use this kind of Haki. Yet, have we seen them using it in the manga ?
 * I've seen that the Admirals had been added to the Known Busōshoku Haki Users list. As Admirals, it's obvious that they can use this kind of Haki. Yet, have we seen them using it in the manga ?


 * Akainu: did he use Busōshoku Haki to protect himself against Marco and Vista's Busōshoku Haki attacks ?


 * Aokiji: did he use Busōshoku Haki to protect himself against Whitebeard's Busōshoku Haki imbued Bisento ?
 * Kizaru: did he use Busōshoku Haki to kick Luffy away ? Was Luffy seen bleeding because of Kizaru's kicks ? :LordRayleigh 21:15, September 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's generally assumed that they used it in Chapter 564 when they protect the platform from whitebeard's earthquake. After it is up to you to decide that it is speculation or not. Kdom 21:33, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had forgotten about it, sorry. Well, it's obviously Haki. LordRayleigh 18:09, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

No more Garp Haki please...
I've been sick of this for a while and someone misusing the report function to bring it up there instead of here (its else where anyway had the reporter bothered to read around). Okay lets get it out of the way shall we:

Its the same effect Nami has on Luffy.

Now, please, for the love of all sanity... Please can we stop with the posting as speculation thats already confirmed as fact in a different way. Yes, he likely DOES know Haki of some sort, HOWEVER his punching of Luffy is not an example of Haki and so to date we simply cannot say the may have Haki.One-Winged Hawk 07:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The Fist of Love is a clear example of Garp's Haki. Garp's attitude and love for Luffy let's him punch him in a way that negates Luffy's DF power. And yes, this IS the same effect as Nami's punches. Haki is all about how people act. Nami REALLY IS DETERMINED to make Luffy learn a lesson. Her haki -- attitude and determination -- manifests in her ability to make Luffy's face swell up with punches. It's comedy, from our perspective. What does that matter?


 * IF its not stated, it can't be taken as fact. (also sign your posts with " ~ " please).One-Winged Hawk 20:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

What about when Garp punches Marco while he is in pheonix form? I know that he isn't a Logia, but he still turns into a bird that's made completly of fire. Josh Galen 20:35, 4 Feburary 2010


 * The phoenix that Marco turns into has Logia-like properties but it isn't exactly a Logia. When stuff blows through Marco, it literally blows through Marco. Marco doesn't turn into intangible flames to avoid attacks, he produces flames that regenerate his otherwise solid body when wounded. That's from what I understand.Mugiwara Franky 04:49, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

With chapter 582 we have another hint that Garp is using Haki. To me it is enough to not call it speculation anymore Kdom 05:55, April 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Its the same as Nami... One-Winged Hawk 07:08, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Obviously not ! It's just that it is not written 4 but 2+2.

Can we go on developing this wikia and finally add Garp to the Busōshoku Haki Users list ? We've got enough information to confirm that he can use it:
 * In chapter 594, a doctor confirms that Garp is a Haki user since he is a Vice Admiral
 * In chapter 431, the SH crew wonder why Garp can hurt Luffy even though he is a rubber man


 * In chapter 582, a seven-year-old Luffy wonders why Garp can hurt even though he is a rubber man

Luffy wondering why he got hurt even though he was a rubber man is obviously Oda saying " Hey, I want to make sure that you'll understand that Haki was used here ! " Luffy did that with Sandersonia and guess what she was using - Busōshoku Haki ! LordRayleigh 23:06, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * LordRayleigh, couldn't have said it better myself. Now if someone could just add the references..-- YazzyDream  23:12, September 2, 2010 (UTC).


 * Done. ;D MasterDeva 23:30, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Zoro's Haki?
I'm just wondering...am I the only one who doesn't agree that Zoro has haki? Is it really confirmed? He doesn't knock anyone out with it or anything and he's been doing stuff like that forever. I say its just intimidation. --Goddess6 04:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC) i think it just his fearful eyes--Coldhandzz 07:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC) --14 april:, I think Zoro doesn't have haki and I don't understand why they put it in the article because many people see these information as facts. It clearly are no facts because it never has been confirmed and I've read the manga, watched the anime and never seen Zoro using haki only scaring people off with his Devel-like look which he even did in episode 5 or something with some pirates of the buggy crew. The battle at the Saobady Archipolago ( yes I just can't write it )was the best proof of haki but it was anime-only, so I think you should remove it or add ( maybe ) because it's very likely that in further events Zoro will have haki. ( I'm no native English speaker )

I think we should put "Possibly" in front of Zoro since we don't know if Asura is a form of Haki or not. gohanRULEZ 07:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #20152
The following message was left by Anonymous via on 2009-03-24 06:46:36 UTC

Under the section "Known Users," you have not mentioned that Luffy's Grandfather may have the power of Haki. Back in Water 7, Luffy's Grandfather, Vice-Admiral Garp of the Marines, punched Luffy while he was sleeping. Luffy then cried out in pain claiming that "It hurts! It hurts! The punches from Grandpa always hurt!" This surprised the other crew members because Luffy was rubber and normal physical attacks do not affect him.

Two Things
No to both. MizukiGinZoro 23:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC) No to only one, We don't know if sentoumaru can use it or not, but the anime is pushing towards sentoumaru using it.86.169.124.189 15:54, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Is Luffy aware of his Haki power?
 * 2) Can Setomaru use it? gohanRULEZ 06:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Rokushiki and swordsmanship
Is it possible that Rokushiki and swordsmanship are connected to haki? CP9 Members channel their energy through their bodies to preform the six skills (Rokushiki). Swordsman like Roronoa Zoro, Dracule Mihawk and Ryuuma can channel their energy through their swords and their bodies.
 * Not exactly. Rokushiki and swordsmanship are simply martial arts and discipline. They are the result of constant physical training. Haki on the other hand, is something else.Mugiwara Franky 02:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Mugiwara Franky, you cannot guarantee that both swordsmanship and Rokushiki are merely martial arts and discipline especially when we know so little about Haki with it ranging from dodging attacks (mantra?), enhancing arrows to pass through and explode through rocks, ignoring immunities to damage in both Paramecia and Logia cases to "shockwaves/blasts" which can unsettle, scare or knock out others. Given that Rob Lucci could damage Luffy with hand to hand combat (a record, he has always been beaten by elements or life draining attacks which render hand to hand skill useless). These characters from CP9 also can fire wind/energy blades (and many not all feel that Haki resembles Ki) then Swordsmanship seems to be focused on spirit (with Kaku giving hints towards Zoro's aura and others hinting to his killing intent) along with Rankyaku like blades. I think it's highly possible that with this variation, that Rokushiki and some parts of swordsmanship could be related to Haki. Though it's safer to wait till it's confirmed.--One Piece Of Romance Dawn 19:39, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's possible that there is a relation between rokushiki/swordsmanship and Haki, but I feel it's necessary to add that Lucci's Shigan couldn't pierce Luffy, stating that it didn't ignore the Gomu Gomu defense (therefore no Haki imbued). It is possible, however, that the Kenbunshoku and Busoshoku Haki manifest at certain times without the need of the user to have mastered it, same way Luffy unleashed his Haoshoku accidently, making possible for attacks such as Asura to be a manifestation of Haki (but not confirming it).177.142.195.79 23:03, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Another Haki user?
I was recently watching the anime, and I noticed that Buggy's acrobat sword-user, Cabaji, seems to give a glare that frightens the lion, Ritchie, more than it would without Haki. Just speculation, but I'm wondering if Cabaji could be listed as a possible Haki user? Episode 7, if you want to check it. around 6:50 - 6:57 on AnimeFreak Frodo 11011 11:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's the case Nami has Haki too, you see my point I'm making here? One-Winged Hawk 09:25, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

First mentionned by name?
I was wondering in which chapter Haki was mentionned for the first time by name. Could it be in chapter 434 when Shanks showed up on the Moby Dick? -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 18:34, October 8, 2009 (UTC) 覇気 was interpreted as "spirit" in the FrankyHouse scan.
 * First time (to my knowledge) was in volume 25, chapter 234; that info is in the article anyway:

The term "Haki" was first coined and used when Blackbeard was commenting Luffy's bounty in Jaya. Odin89 19:07, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

=2010=

Literal translation of the kanji
After taking each of the kanji for "Haki" on their own, I found something http://onepiece.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Haki&action=editquite interesting: the first character literally means "hegemony, rule by might, domination", and the second means "spirit, mood, atmosphere, air". Thusly, the literal meaning of "Haki" could be taken as "Atmosphere of Hegemony", or "Air of Supremacy" as a more swallowable equivalent. I guess that's where the whole Haki concept arose from. MarqFJA 21:33, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Shanks and Whitebeard, and Jinbei.
Chapter 570 clearly states both to be Haōshoku users. The first translation missed this fact. Also confirmed by Aohige |here

what page would that be on? AzNSammanX26 17:37, January 16, 2010 (UTC) What page does it say that?

Whitebeard can use Kenbunshoku Haki. It's how he managed to avoid Ace' surprised attacks, even when he was sleeping. Marco also said during the Battle of Marineford that Whitebeard should have normally been able to avoid surprised attacks like Squardo's, even through it was a friend's surprised attack. This is the power Kenbunshoku Haki which was used during Ace's flashback and that Marco was associating to Whitebeard. LordRayleigh.

I intend to add him but I forgot. I'm pretty sure most of the users of the haki list have mastered the 2 types that's why I wanted to only put the specialization but it becomes a nightmare to maintain. On a more questionable topic I wonder if we could add Jinbei to the haki user list since he was able to fight against a logia during several days. Kdom 20:29, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I also agree that Jinbei should be added to the Haki user list:
 * Jinbei could injure Ace because of Haki - I don't find another explanation to him being able to hit him during several days, especially when the only known natural weakness of fire was magma.

LordRayleigh 15:40, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jinbei was able to touch and manipulate water with Haki since Rayleigh explained it allows people to capture flowing bodies as substantial bodies - the anime clearly shows that the water " state " was " transformed " by Jinbei's doing.
 * Jinbei probably blocked Akainu's magma punch directed to Ace with his Haki armor - otherwise his arm would have been turned into complete ashes like Ace's chest. I think his hand getting a little burnt is the result of a little lack of Haki armor unlike Shanks, who was able to block Akainu's magma punch easily and without any harm.

I've added Jinbei to some Haki user lists with the manga references. LordRayleigh 10:11, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't it still just speculation? We should wait to add jinbei until it's mentioned he can use it. --1201 19:59, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Was Whitebeard ever confirmed to be a Mantra user? I mean, the whole story about him avoiding Ace's attacks while sleeping just hint he is capable of using Kenbunshoku, and nothing more. On the same basis we could say Nami is capable of using Busoushouku because she hit Rufy actually hurting him...think we need more info about this. 94.164.34.112 19:04, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * :I'd definitely put it in the 'speculation' pile. Jinbei's haki use is likely, but not confirmed.ZeroSD 19:34, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Shanks Dragon & Whitebeard are confirmed Haoshoku users
The guy with the cigar says it plus http://forum.onemanga.com/showpost.php?p=3066342&postcount=33 here and in the recent manga Iva said that Luffy got his haki from Dragon

Hmm..., I don't see that anywhere.

I know that Whitebeard and Shanks have Haki, and that Whitebeard knows about the existence of Haoshoku Haki... but that thing with Dragon's a little iffy. --Reikson 19:33, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Look at the line. Yes, LOOK at it:

オヤジや赤髪と同じ"覇王色"の覇気！！

オヤジ = Pops 赤髪 = Redhair 同じ = same as

You get the gist.

The line says "He has the Haoushoku Haki... just like Pops and Redhair!"

http://www.google.cl/language_tools?hl=es

So its pretty confirmed that Shanks & WB has Haoshoku 201.223.164.239 23:42, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Until a scan is released that has it written in it, (even though it may be true) we'll have to wait before we add this information. Of course as soon as it has been confirmed it will be added right away. That's just our policy! ;) MasterDeva 23:47, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's actually a scan at mangastream but it maybe an early incomplete scan.Mugiwara Franky 07:01, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, just read more in a apforum, the scan in mangastream missed that part completely.Mugiwara Franky 07:05, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you think it's alright to add it then OK, I just commented to wait for a scanlation that has it written in it for those who can't read Japanese according to our guidelines.


 * Oh and you didn't have to tell me about the scan, I always know behorehand if a chapter has been released or if the raw is available. ;P MasterDeva 11:08, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I see why I missed it... The version on One manga doesn't have it at all (same version it seems). I didn't read the spoilers anyway this week since I felt sick. So I had a week without spoilers (which I do every so often anyway). So this caught me out. One-Winged Hawk 17:14, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure? None of the other scans I've read have it.

The Pope 17:32, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Look the picture above.

That is the ORIGINAL manga

It is not the first time that there mistranslation.

Remember the -Aokiji the strongest of the marines- or -Hancock hasn't mastered Haoshoku 201.223.164.183 18:42, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Binktopia scan has it and it has been said in every forum about the mistranslation. I hope one manga will update their version, also I fear they won't. However, it is not clear enough for Dragon and Ace to put them in the list. Kdom 20:18, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * One Manga unfortunately don't update their releases unless someone makes a loud fuss in their forums and "they happen" to take notice of it. Now that an English scanlation with the text properly written has been released, it is legit information that we can add to the wiki.


 * As for Ace and Dragon... Ace probably was talking about Whitebeard and not himself but since that is speculation on my part and the line is too ambiguous to be made clear it should be put aside until more information becomes available. The same with Dragon, Ivankov says "you can't beat the blood" but we don't know enough to include Dragon in the list. Let's just wait and see, we will know sooner or later. MasterDeva 18:06, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * What else I note is "Will of D." is being mentioned in the same chapter so the "blood" bit may be edging between the two, WB certainly refers to "will of D." at least once. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 18:20, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed and from the way he says it; he implies that the "Will of D." has changed the age once before. Is it a reference to how Roger (another carrier of the initial D.) changed the era previously with his actions!? MasterDeva 18:40, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Edit War
Sorry, if I was too harsh and stepped in though I'm not an official sysop in this wiki. But I felt like an edit war was about to begin whether or not Shanks, Whitebeard and Dragon are Haki users or have the Haoushoku haki, so I semi-protected the page for a week. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/intern/de/images/thumb/a/a4/C2.png/15px-C2.png · 19:30, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

KO people = Haōshoku Haki
In the forum I read, more and more people are saying that the ability to knock out people is something specific to Haōshoku Haki. Well, I was dubious at first, but it's true that this power has not been used by regular haki users so far (I don't count Rayleigh since we don't know what type of Haki he has). Also, I believe that the fact that Luffy haki type is immediatly labeled as Haōshoku when he uses it to knock out people, helps in the correlation.

So what shall we do ? I think it is to early to assume it is like that, but isn't it wrong either to let it in the general haki section ? Kdom 19:45, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well shall I deduce from the lack of answers that we keep it as it is ? Kdom 20:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Umm, the lack of responses doesn't necessarily mean one thing. It just means that either nobody has yet to find this discussion or have come up with a proper response. There's also the case where people who would want to respond are not around due to stuff such as computer problems and etc..


 * Anyway, I kinda agree that it seems that fainting is starting to be more akin to Haoshoku Haki. The problem however is Rayleigh. Since we do not know yet what level he is, saying fainting is exclusive to those with Haoshoku Haki level or doing something similar to saying it would kinda speculate that Rayleigh is of Haoshoku Haki level.


 * Maybe waiting awhile until more info about Haki would be best. The more Haki is displayed, the more likely a proper explanation is bound to appear.Mugiwara Franky 23:57, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

ARE WE SURE ABOUT WB BEING A HAKI USER?

I know about the fine translations which supposedly lead to consider WB as a King's Haki user.

But then again...are we sure the cigar smoking man was ACTUALLY talking about Whitebeard?

Coudn't he be referring to LUFFY'S father, instead of WB?

It would go much better along in the whole context: Dobermann and IVankok will talk about Luffy's dad too short after...

And besides had WB the Haoshoku, why didn't he use it to make people faint like Luffy does? It would have come in handy a lot during the battle...why was he holding back?79.23.33.97 14:55, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * YES, we keep saying this until the cows come home. It can't be Luffy's father instead of WB. We haven't the faintest idea how Hakiworks right now, is the fainting thing a assoicated link to the King's Haki? No, its not confirmed. It maybe there is Haki level and then there is the STRENGTH of the Haki on top of itslevel. We'remissing information. One-Winged Hawk 23:28, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

It may be not confimed, but Rufy's haki has been labeled as Haoshoku TWICE after making people faint in burst of anger....so we are dealing with quite an evidence, I guess.

Anyway, since I don't know Japanese I can only assume the translation is correct....even if having that balloon talking about Shanks and Dragon, instead of WB, would make much more sense considering the information we have about haki and the general context. 79.23.33.97 15:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC).

Luffy's haki has been named haoshoku haki twice by people who have been close enough to feel it, it could just be that the haki feels different itself. It may well be that they're not identifying it through the fainting at all. 84.208.208.230 15:28, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

OK now with Chapter 587 and the famous you too. The question is raised once again. Honnestly, to me, the fact that knocking out people is regular haki by explaining that it feels different is the part which becomes speculative. On a minimum, we should remove this part of the regular haki and put it on a dedicate section which explains the different point of view. Also maybe we should have a section suspected haki user like we have for devil fruit. Since, despite what Angel says, Garp has clearly been hinted being able to use haki in chapter 582 and I think it should be mentioned somewhere. Kdom 21:51, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Glad this is finally settled Kdom 05:16, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Since we now know that Haoshoku is de facto the ability to "knock people unconscious", are we still sure that Whitebeard was a King's Disposition user? Why didn't he use this power during Marineford's battle?79.23.32.63 15:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

May be due to old age WB can't use Haoshoku no haki properly. For instance he couldn't predict squardo's attack but he did it over a 100 times when Ace tried to kill him beforing joining WB's crew. So I thought that would be the case for WB unable to use his Haoshoku no haki. This is just my speculation.

Redundant Lists
As I read through this page, I noticed more about how little we know about Haki despite nearly 600 chapters passing. Though the thing I most want to change was the lists which repeate the information over and over. All of us seem to agree that all Haoushoku Haki users can use basic haki or are at least "Haki capable". It makes more sense to rewrite it a bit and say that the Haoushoku types are in the above list or whatever. --One Piece Of Romance Dawn 18:44, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Navigation
I find that most of the navigation templates are a bit out of place wrt the content of the article. If we have to add all the templates which contains a character who use haki or the arc which displays a haki move, the list will become a bit huge don't you think ? Kdom 10:09, May 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Generally yes but it's kinda what usually happens when a certain subject is shared amongst different groups. The navigation section being big though is no different than any other section of a article being bigger than the rest. Besides, there is the hide feature which helps reduce the size reasonably.Mugiwara Franky 12:09, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Admirals and Fleet admirals
It's not explicitely said in Chapter 594, but can we imagine that vice admiral all possesses haki and ranks above them not ? Is there anybody who is against puting Kizaru, Sengoku and Kong as Haki users ? Kdom 21:44, July 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually I believe the actual translation of what the doctor was that Vice-Admirals and above all have Haki. Even if otherwise, it kinda makes sense that they would have Haki too since they've all passed the Vice-Admiral rank.Mugiwara Franky 23:24, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Simulcast using "Haki energy"?
I haven't really checked on it, but I'm pretty sure only the first time it was subbed was it used as "Haki Energy". The rest of the times, it's just "Haki" I remember taking pictures of the first and second time it was used: 1st, 2nd. Don't recall other times when it was subbed as "haki energy". Jinjo Ghost 04:27, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Double post, sorry.


 * I'm going to look at later Funi subbed episodes to see what they used for Haki, but I'm pretty sure its just "Haki" and not "Haki Energy" since that second mention. Pretty sure the article is wrong saying that they're using only "Haki energy".--Jinjo Ghost 03:16, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Total rework
In light of the newest chapter, this whole page needs to be redone. We've received confirmation of Haki users for at least two characters, and an actual definition of the three types of Haki and their uses. Most notably, the section on Mantra needs to get worked into this article. I'll start cleaning things up for now, but... well, its gonna be a lot of work, so I hope everyone else is as interested in fixing this article as I am.Beowulf89 00:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, looks like someone beat me to it. Still, I'll work on cleaning it up when I can tell things have calmed down.Beowulf89 00:39, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if we should incorporate stuff like Edward Newgate with the Busoshoku Haki. It isn't confirmed by dialogue, but his ability to hit Akainu is also good evidence, no? Horologium4 03:58, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * That About paragraph still needs some reworking. He was written little by little each time we learned something but now everything has been explained clearly. In particular the fact that the hability to counter devil fruit is a Busōshoku Haki ability.
 * @Horologium4 in fact everybody who has haki can use this 2 types. It's just that you specialise in one type but we don't know which one Whitebeard was the most skilled at. Concidering he was stabbed it may be not the mantra one but that's speculation. Kdom 06:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Specialization
Is it possible to stop adding people who are not specialized, ie which we know for sure that the one type of haki they use the most is Kenbunshoku or Busōshoku. The only one that clearly demonstrated that they are specialized in Busōshoku Haki type so far are Marigold and Sentoumaru, so they should be the only ones on the list. If they use it randomly like Rayleigh, Garp, Whitebeard, etc... then they are not specialized in that Haki type. If we put all the character that have use a type of haki, the interest of these lists are pointless since Rayleigh clearly said that everyone could have access to this 2 type of haki. Kdom 12:38, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the Mantra type, that's rather clear.


 * For the armor type, people are kinda gonna naturally put every character that displays this type. While Marigold and Sentoumaru are definite, others however seem to be also specialized especially if they don't use any other form of Haki. Characters like Marco who have only displayed using only one form of Haki will always be labeled as being proficient in that form.


 * For characters who use more than 1 type, that may maybe a gray area. Rayleigh did say that most people tend to specialize in 1 type of Haki depending on their character. However that's kinda where the gray comes in. Rayleigh said that most people specialize in 1 not that everyone only specializes in only 1 type. His words kinda suggest that there are some people who are able to specialize in more than one. His actions also kinda backs it up what with him using all 3 types on a gigantic elephant. If we are going for listing only the type what characters are most proficient in, Rayleigh would kinda fall under the armor type since that's the one he's been seen using most often.


 * All I can say is probably not to be too strict in handling this matter.Mugiwara Franky 13:14, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't have any more-or-less final opinion on that, but I want to note that Enel and other Mantra users didn't show Busoshoku Haki at all, and, on the other hand, Marco and Vista didn't show usage of Kenbonshoku Haki (possibly only yet). Ruxax 13:50, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, from the chapter it is quite clear that every haki user can use both basic type of haki when needed, so there is no need to put them in the list when we only have seen them use it a few times. Rayleigh also says to Luffy that he has to find the color he is the best at. I mean this category thing is such a manga cliche. You have it everywhere, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, Psyren.... The interesting category is where the character is the most good at. Sandersonia showed that she could use Busōshoku but if we put them in both list we lose the fact that she is clearly specialized into Kenbunshoku. And we don't know if Oda had the idea of the color haki when he created Mantra so it's difficult to classify them. At least it shall be noted that they don't use it and that they are the exception, not the rule Kdom 14:03, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if I can entirely agree there. I can agree that there are Haki users who are more specialized in certain aspect than others. However, I kinda don't agree we should just list characters based on what they're most skilled at. It's really gray and confusing. It's also a bit confusing with how you've arranged things. You list Sandersonia as the Mantra type since that's the type we've seen her use most prominently, however you don't list Marco as the Armor type even though we've seen him use this type of Haki just as much as we've seen Sandersonia use the Mantra type. It's really confusing.Mugiwara Franky 02:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * The setup you made also might confuse people. You have one list on top that lists down all people who have used the Mantra type and you have one list at the bottom that lists down all the people who have used the King type. Based on those two lists, people will naturally add more people to the Armor type in order to coincide with the other lists. Its really not that clear.Mugiwara Franky 02:39, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It's not confusing at all if people were able to read the title. I have changed them on purpose. To me what Rayleigh said is quite clear and not grey at all but since I am the only one to understand it this way I will change it. Kdom 07:59, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

"i. The characters in bold are those who have shown that they are inclined to use this type of Haki the most. " Ok, maybe I'm being a little slow, but isn't this a pretty redundent? It's not like those characters are on other lists. They're placed where they are because they've been shown to use that type of haki, so... yea, I don't understand the point of having bolded characters, since everyone on the list would have to end up bolded, no? Haha. -- YazzyDream  22:19, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

As explained above, initially I wanted to put only the one specialized in the list but it was perpetual edit war. So I went up with this compromise. Also there are some characters like Rayleigh and Sandersonia who have shown both abilities so they are in the 2 lists. But like I said, to me, beside the Mantra users, all of the experimented Haki users are able to use both haki types. Kdom 22:30, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I see what you're trying to do. But that's not quite what I mean. Here, I'll try to explain myself better:


 * Coby and Sandersonia are only on the Kenbunshoku Haki list, so there's no point in them being bolded, unless they're mentioned in the Busōshoku Haki, or Haoshoku Haki list. Since that's all they've been seen doing, you can't say, "they specialize in it"; because you haven't seen them use the other types. You see what I mean? Same as vice versa with Marigold and Sentoumaru.


 * Now if Rayleigh, whose on all three lists is bolded in one of them, that would make sense. Or Newgate, or Shanks (who are on two lists), etc., etc., Bottom line, a character should only be bolded if they're on more than one list, and we know that's what they specialize in. -- YazzyDream  23:39, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure why I was reverted. The bolding might actually be useful if it wasn't complete speculation. We don't actually know what any of them are specialized in, we only know what they can use. Even the Mantra users might be able to use more than just Mantra if Busōshoku Haki was actually known of in Skypeia (note Enel thought himself invulnerable). Bastian964 02:49, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * See, actually, that's another point. We don't know what any of them are specialized in. Like Bastian said, it's speculation. We only know what they can do. I don't want us to end up looking like idiots because we guessed at what everyone was best at without any confirmation. It's like, hm... (Metaphorical story time!):

One day, I went to Bastian964's basketball game (just using you as example here.) Now, Bastian is really, really good. I also know Bastian is good at sports in general, but I figure, "Damn, Bastian is so good at Kenbunshoku Haki basketball, it must be the sport he's best at! I think I'll go tell everybody." And few days later other people are telling each other, "You know Bastian's really good at sports, but he's best at basketball." But then, a few weeks later Bastian plays at a soccer game, and he's amazing. Afterwards, people go up to him, and ask, "Hey, we heard you were best at Kenbunshoku Haki basketball, but you're much better at Haoshoku Haki soccer!" And Bastian will reply, "I never said that. I always say soccer's my specialty, even though I can play both. Who told you that?" "Well, we heard it from the One Piece Encyclopedia YazzyDream." Basically in the end, we I end up looking like fool.


 * cough*  YazzyDream  03:08, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * *laughs* Love your example. Bastian964 04:28, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Adding who specializes in what is entirely speculative, as not one user has ever been said to favor a type, only that people are inclined to do so. Coby only knows the one type, and thus cannot be said to be inclined to a power he has yet to even properly use. Etc, etc. They may use only one type, but that's different. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 06:29, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well firt I don't know why Sandersonia was removed from the Busōshoku list since she use it against Luffy. The difference of the current bold ones wrt the others is that this type of haki is part of their style of fight which is completely different from the other user which have jut merely punched haki user so far. What else do you want as a proof ? You want Oda to write it before each attack ? That's never gonna happen. The fact that we have a demonstration fight of haki with the Gorgon sister and then Rayleigh who explain than you tend to specialize in a type of haki is clearly enough. I agree that Coby is more speculative, it's just that it seems natural that your awake the type of haki your are the more incline to first. You can remove it if you want but not the others. And the intor phrase is perfectly clear on the meaning, I have remove the specialization part and put exactly what you said Rogue Penguin. Kdom 06:33, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe its best to go back to just simply listing down who can do what without specialization notes. Based on some answers here, not everybody seems to interpret the info the chapter gives the same way.Mugiwara Franky 06:48, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've re-added Sandersonia to the Busoshoku Haki user list since she clearly managed to hurt Luffy crushing him with her tail and since Luffy clearly asked why she could hurt him even though he was rubber. I've also added the reference. LordRayleigh 10:19, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * First, The Rogue Penguin, the discussion is not finished so it was improper to remove the bold parts.
 * Now we have an example that some information are lost by removing them. Sandersonia is at the same level as Rayleigh when she clearly show during an entire fight that the haki she used the most was the color of observation. Also the mantra user do not know about Busōshoku haki so at least them shall be kept bold.
 * I did not invent it, Rayleigh stated that user tend to specialize into one type of haki. So tell me why Oda choose, as an introduction to haki, to show us a girl who used only one type and the second the other one if it is not to illustrate that fact.
 * Oda demonstrate his storytelling abilities with the progressive introduction of haki, so that with chapter 597, most of our questions are finally answered and we are ruining it with this abuse of speculation (btw why do we keep the Admiral in the Busōshoku section ? that is as much a speculation). Under such rules 50% of this wiki content is speculation.
 * As we have said saying someone is specialized at something because we've seen them use it is ridiculous. The whole point of the list isn't to judge strength, it's to simply state who can use it. Furthermore, specialization doesn't even indicate strenghth. For example Rayleigh could be specialized in X form of Haki but still be better than most of the other users at Y form of Haki because he's just that awesome with Haki. Also, Sandersonia used BOTH types of Haki so your specialization argument for the two sisters isn't even close to valid. Finally, a user of Mantra might actually be specialized in another form of Haki but not know it because the other forms are not known of in Skypiea (note Enel thought himself invincible). Bastian964 19:12, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just because the discussion is ongoing doesn't mean its validation to keep your preferred version, especially in light of how it's gone thus far. As to lost information, any specific uses can be readded, as they have been already. It does not require the presence of the bolding to be readded. In any case, it remains speculation to assume they prefer one kind over another. Yes, Rayleigh does say people do such a thing, but individuals cannot be said to prefer one over the other without solid confirmation that they can use others and choose not to. Maybe they were only taught the one skill. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 19:12, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * The standard is to let the page in its original state until the discussion is finished.
 * Where did I specify that strength was an issue. It's just a matter of number of usage. Sandersonia systematically used mantra against Luffy except once, Marigold never used it. What shall we deduce which type they are the most skilled at when we know that there is one ? That's my point, why do you say it is not valid. Are you implying that we are specialize in one type one can not use the other ? I never said that. They live on the land of haki so they have been taught both usages, why would they deliberatly use the one they are the weakest at, that's stupid. And why did Oda choose this way to introduce us to haki using 2 characters who use each one a different type of haki and then later explain us that haki user tend to specialized ?
 * Also people do not need to have to read both list to get an information, especially when the list will get longer and longer.
 * But well, do what you want, I'm tired of this page. Kdom 20:41, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * While what you were doing Kdom was something I guess, the problem is that it really appears that people really are interpreting stuff differently. There are people here that get what you are saying and there are people who don't get what you are saying. I get what you are saying about Sandersonia but it appears that others don't get it. The listing down only by specialization and bolding in order to show who are specialized in certain types were great ideas to make things simple. Problem was stuff weren't that simple enough to make simple.Mugiwara Franky 07:57, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well if people are not able to understand the basics of storytelling, I prefer surrender than spending all my time reverting edits and explain people. We will have to add it someday, because I'm pretty sure Oda will one day make say to one of it's character : I'm specialized in this type of haki. Otherwise Rayleigh comment was completely unnecessary. Also I forgot to mention this great argument : Mantra users may be specialized in something they don't know !?! Now that I think about it, I'm really stupid, what am I waiting for ? Maybe I'm Mozart or Picasso but I didn't know it... Kdom 19:00, August 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people here that understand the basics of storytelling. The thing is not everybody interprets what is being explained the same way. The explanation of Haki from the chapter is very clear however some rationals taken from the explanation is as presented here not on the same page. Take what you've done, you stated that Sandersonia is specialized in the Mantra type partially based on the fact that it is the type she's seen most using. However, when it came to Marco, you didn't list him in the Armor type even though it's the type he's seen most using. Your reason for doing so is that you say we're not sure if it's the type he's most specialized in regardless of how many times he uses it. Correct me if I'm wrong but something like that is clearly not on the same page with what others are gonna interpret.Mugiwara Franky 00:48, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I already answer that. Sandersonia, Marigold, Sentoumaru : we have seen a complete fight that allows us to have an idea of what their fight style is. Marco and every marineford fighter we have nothing but cameo pictures. Isn't that something different ? Kdom 06:37, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Who's a leader?
"Two thirds of the people shown to possess the Haōshoku Haki are leaders" I would argue all of them are. First Mate is not *the* top position of a ship, but it's a leadership position, and Ace had his own crew before joining Whitebeard and runs a division. So this trivia needs some alteration. ZeroSD 20:52, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Seastone and the Busoushoku haki "armor"
I was just back-reading a bit and noticed this:  Ignoring the fact that Boa BROKE the seastone weapon (either via brute strength or busoushoku reinforcement, I dunno) which is supposedly as hard as diamond, what is noteworthy is that Boa is a DF user, but instead of being weakened by taking a seastone hit to her legs, she actually just broke the weapon instead.

Does this prove that busoushoku haki can protect DF users from seastone? 122.3.237.194 05:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only the tip of Smokers Jutte(?) has the seastone on it, IIRC. Just throwing that out there.--Jinjo Ghost 06:43, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Naviboxes
Too many naviboxes on the page. Ruxax 13:09, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's expected when a page becomes related to many groups. Best not to fret over it though. Other wikias face similar situations like this. Take Link in Zeldapedia or Mario in the Super Mario Wiki for example. As long as they provide navigation that's all that matters though.Mugiwara Franky 13:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Intro
Head of the article should be rewritten. Sentence "It is no different than the common senses that people normally have." makes no sense at all. Ruxax 19:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, somebody removed it. OK. Ruxax 20:51, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia/Hancock
Hancock is a confirmed Haoushoku Haki user and we've also seen her strike a Logia (Smoker). Has she ever been seen using Kenbunshoku Haki? I don't remember if she used Haoushoku "on screen" or not, either. --nub 02:04, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooh, I also just realized, Whitebeard has used all three, too. --nub 02:12, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you reference them? -- YazzyDream  02:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * He demonstrated the ability to detect surprise attacks, struck Akainu and was stated to be a Haoushoku user. --nub 02:25, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, lol. I know what you're saying. I mean direct references. Tell us the exact chapter this happens in, then feel free to include it. We can't just take your word for it, no offense. -- YazzyDream  02:28, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, hold on. I know about Whitebeard. I'm a little confused about your first post. Are you saying Hancock has all three Haki, or that it was mentioned in the trivia and you took it out? I feel like I'm missing a little context. -- YazzyDream  02:34, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

There are already references concerning Whitebeard, and so far Hancock has not displayed Kenbunshoku or Haoushoku Haki Kdom 07:37, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Luffy's Kenbushoku
When Luffy "saw" his arms cut by Mihawk during the Marinford arc, (as it's said in this page) I tought that it wasn't actually a vision, but only a sort of "fear" of having his arms cut away, and not a kenbushoku vision. Are you sure that it was a vision? --Meganoide 21:28, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't a vision. It was just Luffy being perceptive. SeaTerror 22:37, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that was just Luffy's common sense. (68.36.166.78 13:24, September 11, 2010 (UTC))

Being Luffy's Kenbushoku Haki though is not out of the question either and we can't rule it out completely at this point. We should wait until we see Luffy's new abilities before we can determine that it was his "common sense". Until then the text should be ambiguous and mention both possibilities. MasterDeva 14:14, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Busoshoku Haki vs Logia
I think that even the most powerful Logia like even a fake Kinzo Kinzo no Mi (Metal Metal Fruit) might not be able to stand up to someone like Rayleigh's Busoshoku abilities. If anyone thinks I'm wrong, tell me.Dogloverben 01:17, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Don't be impatient!
We'll just have to wait and see.

The true Power of Haoshoku Haki
I think there was an error in the mangastreamtranslation of what HH is.The Cnet trans which has been far more accurate in the past,lists it has being able to"Overpower the wills of creatures around"not"intimidate creatures around".Below is the trans.

'' 16-17 Rayleigh: !!! Luffy: ........................!!! Rayleigh: This is the ability to overpower the opponent's will... It is called "Sovereign Haki"...!! / It can often be found in the type of people who make a name for themselves on a global scale. / However, whilst it can be brought under control, the Sovereign Haki is unique in that it cannot be trained. // It is the user's very spirit manifest...!! It can only be strengthened by the individual's personal growth. Luffy: That's what you used back in the auction house...! Rayleigh: You have experienced it for yourself. I know that your potential for the Sovereign Haki has already been awakened. / Until you have brought it under control, you must avoid overusing it at all costs. / Otherwise, you will find yourself overpowering even those innocent bystanders around you...!! '' So which is the correct trans?

Why translate 色 as "color"?
I agree that 色 can mean "color"; however, it also has the other meanings of "kind", "type" and "variety", which make much more sense in the context of Haki. So again: Why? MarqFJA 11:11, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Chart Vs list
It would be better if the haki users were written in chart format with an X under which Haki we've seen them use. One-Winged Hawk 22:44, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually when Haki became more prominent, I started making such a chart. Never got around to refining it though what with all the arguing going about.Mugiwara Franky 04:40, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Might be worth starting it up again then now the arguing is quieter. One-Winged Hawk 21:11, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Built a basic design of sorts. The color choice is not a definite but just there to show the concept.Mugiwara Franky 14:28, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Nullify devil fruit weakness?
Can Busōshoku Haki nullify the weakness of seawater and seastones if it is activated before touched by either?Daikari 09:01, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't know yet the length of protection Busōshoku Haki can give to someone who is using it. To "shield" someone from Devil Fruit abilities (like Akainu's magma) and give the user the ability to hit the physical body of a Devil Fruit user; that's pretty much everything we know about the offensive form of Haki. An invisible armour that can empower physical attacks, Devil Fruit abilities and even weapons that can be used in physical combat like swords and weapons or bows and pistols. Anything else is anybody's guess and falls under speculation. MasterDeva 10:03, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Benn Beckman's Haki
I know that Beckman threatened Kizaru with his gun, but this is speculation that he was using haki. Are there any confirmed cases of him actaually using haki, not threatening to do something that may be haki?Pacifista15 05:40, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

There is no confirmation, no. I propose to remove Beckman from the list:
 * 1) Kizaru just acted in his typical weird, sarcastic way (clear in the anime version)
 * 2) Even if not, Beckman might use seastone bullets to harm logias (this isn't far stretched, the standard guards at impeldown use seastone-net bazookas and Smoker has his famous staff) 02:27, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Sengoku and his fruit?
This isn't a new topic, but I seem to be the only one who thinks that he can use/has Bososhoku haki with his fruit. He could be hands down one of the top three strongest characters in the series (counting his fruit and it's powers) and we need to acknowledge that. Okay top three might be a little overzealous but we have to get something out of the way.

Reasons:
 * 1) He completely tore through the entire blackbeard crew, all whilst making most and Teach himself, a fruit user, bleed.
 * 2) Forced blood out of Luffy when we was punched in gear third. Something that is very hard to do. Even cannonballs can't achieve this.
 * 3) Was able to pin down Garp with only one arm
 * 4) Was able to stop and lock up Shiki with Garp over 20 years ago. This is speculation, but knowing his (Sengokus fruit) Shikis fruit, and the damage that was done to Marineford with only three men, I don't see how his fruit doesn't give him instant haki or some kind of equivalent powers.
 * 5) He isn't even mentioned on any of the haki lists.

This is shameful. I don't know why respect isn't given to him on the haki page when after chapter 571 we all knew what he could do to anyone, fruit or not, who got in his way.

Daniel November 30, 5:08 AM.


 * No Devil Fruit can grand its user Haki no matter what the ability. Haki is an inborn power that all humans posses but very few can awaken and fewer still master! Haki has nothing to with Devil Fruit powers other, of course, than used in conjunction with them, to empower the individual offensive or defensive capabilities the consumer gains and allowing the user to hit the real body (Logia or not) if it makes direct physical contact with the target. As you must know already, Shiki possesses the abilities of the Fuwa Fuwa no Mi which allow him to levitate himself and objects that he can touch (like battleships) as well as control over the direction they float (including dropping them from the air).


 * It wouldn't be impossible to think that Shiki used his powers to aid him in battle against Sengoku and Garp. Also, as it was displayed in Luffy's case shockwaves do harm him as it was the case the Impact Dial and Lucci's Rokuougan can harm a rubber man. While Sengoku did manage to caught the Blackbeard Pirates off guard and damage them a little with his shockwaves it was shown in the next panels that they were able to recover quite easily from it. Making Teach bleed isn't something difficult to do since his primary Devil Fruit (the Yami Yami no Mi) takes in the full impact behind every attack causing his body to "absorb much more pain than a normal human" according to him.


 * Having clearly shown only 'once' to use Haki, it would be enough for him to be included within the "Vice Admiral and above" category. Garp on the other hand has used it multiple times in the series not to mention that he was the first Marine to display it first in the series! People don't underestimate Sengoku by not putting him in the list, it's just that he hasn't done enough on-screen to single him out from the rest Marines.


 * Even Whitebeard admitted that Sengoku was one of the few people who "knew how the seas were back then" during Roger's time. Sengoku is admittedly one of the strongest Marines shown in a world scale, along with Garp, to have made a reputation for themselves and still be alive to this day! MasterDeva 12:08, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Removed the bit about Haki being something only certain people are born with
It's never been said anywhere that the Haki you can use is restricted by bloodline. And that goes against the thematics of the story.

Translation error?
As fas as I can tell, Oda did NOT make the doctor say that all Vice Admirals can use Haki. That's some weird sentence beginning with "Vice admiral class sailors..." ("Chûjô class no Kaihei-tachi") but not "Vice admirals..." ("Chûjô-tachi").

Actually, so far no VA besides Garp has shown the ability to USE Haki, have they? -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 14:28, December 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, then keep the wrong statement... Couldn't care less. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 10:56, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

=2011=

Rayleigh Haki mistake?
I just noticed something strange about Rayleigh's Haki. As we know from after the Whitebeard war, the 3 snake sisters say that Rayleigh is their savior; in other words, that means they knew him before the fight with Luffy in the Amazon Lily arc. Rayleigh has a great deal of haki including Haoshoku Haki, yet when Luffy burst his Haki during his fight with the sisters, they claim that they never met anyone besides their sister that can use this power. Does this mean that Rayleigh didn't have Haki when he met the sisters or does it simply mean the sisters weren't aware of Rayleigh's Haoshoku Haki?? (which would both be highley unlikley...) Or is this one of Oda's mistakes? JapaneseOPfan 22:17, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

It is very likely that she didn't know Rayleigh had Haki when they were rescued. Just because he has it doesn't mean it's immediately noticeable. Hancock could have unlocked her Haki after she was with him and Shakky. I wouldn't look into it too much.DancePowderer 22:25, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Ok then.. we'll leave it for now, I guess. JapaneseOPfan 22:35, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Inheritance of Haoshoku Haki
This is mere speculation, yes I know, but maybe we should add as a side-note this possibility. Thinking over how Ace had it, his father had it. Luffy and apparently Dragon has it, Ivankov claiming that Luffy is indeed "Dragon's Son" after Luffy unleashed his Haki, at least for me, hints that this Haki at least can be inherited. You think we should add this as a "speculation"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with !


 * The fact that Roger had it also is speculation, so the Ace argument is only based on speculation...
 * And Ivankov's sentence is a clue, but not a confirmation; for example, suppose it's the Will of D that allowed Luffy to get Haoshoku Haki. In this case, this is indeed inherited in a way, but we can't deduce that Shanks' children would automatically have it. The rule is to avoid speculation as much as possible! sff9 (talk) 10:10, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Luffy´s second time Haōshoku Haki
The page generally said "He used Haōshoku Haki again in Amazon Lily", its quite true...BUT the second time he used it was in the auction house, he made all the audience faint using Haōshoku Haki, then he used again in Amazon Lily while fighting the Boa sisters.

Seriously? That was Rayleigh. SeaTerror 16:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Rayleigh using Haōshoku Haki. Yeah, it was Rayleigh, not Luffy. Look here. leviathan_ 89  16:37, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Lighting yourself/objects on fire
We know that CoA haki has various forms based on Luffy hardening himself. I'm pretty positive that lighting yourself on fire is another type of CoA armor, so I'm bringing it up here. Some evidence: So, that's all the main stuff, but I think it's pretty compelling. F la mi ng he dg e    Talk 03:34, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Everything in the Boa sisters fight with Luffy is presumably haki based (except the fact that they are snakes).
 * One of the sisters lit herself on fire.
 * For a long time it was considered a joke to light yourself on fire, but once it's an important plot device you can't assume that anymore.
 * Zoro lit Ryuma on fire at the climax of their battle so perhaps another example of him grasping haki at the end of a battle.
 * Besides armor haki, there really is no explanation for lighting stuff on fire.

It's possible to create fire from heat friction, which is what happened in both Zoro and Sandersonia's cases. There are other explanations beside haki as to why things happen. 05:09, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

My bad. I don't normally just write things off as haki. I went and checked out the Boa fight again but in the VIZ volume instead of online. What seemed to be lighting on fire and controlling the flames was actually her using a match on herself and doing the hair control technique (pretty hard to tell online). The roll haki played in the attack I guess was just keeping her from getting burned. Ah well. --   F la mi ng he dg e     Talk 05:30, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Naw, bro you got a point. Rayleigh said Haki mirrors a persons spirit and everyone know that Sanji has a burning spirit he said it himself, thus Diable Jambe. We all know Zoro has dark/demonic/killing intent spirit, thus Asura. And luffy has a spirit hard as a rock thus Koka.

Fire come from FRICTION! NOT HAKI. Sanji explained that he heated his leg up from friction. There is nothing to suggest that Haki can cause fires. Rayleigh already explained what Haki does, so stop trying to make excuses for things that happened next to haki. All you're doing is making stuff up and making connections that don't exist. I suggest you either drop the topic or take it to a forum. 01:30, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Sanji said friction but now two years later hes 6000 metres UNDERWATER MAKE HIS LEG BURN AND ON TOP OF THAT HE DOESN'T SPIN ANYMORE. NO FRICTION BUDDY!!!!!! NOW YOU CAN TAKE IT DOWN.

Ok, there will always be friction, whether he is underwater or not. There is gonna be friction with the water, friction from him rubbing his legs together, whatever, no matter where it is. But setting that aside, Sanji cannot use haki (yet) so it couldn't have been that.  PX15 | What's up? |2:39 29/Oct/2011 UTC

Fossa of the Whitebeard Pirates set his sword on fire with his cigar and McGuy can generate eletricity on his sword. Perhaps them and this others (like the Boa Sister and Sanji) can fuel the fire/eletricity with Haki. So far, only speculation, but could all be hints. Oda has been hinting Haki on the monster trio (it seems) for sometime and the War of Marineford was the introduction of a lot of experienced strong guys, which is always hint of Haki.177.142.195.79 09:41, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

"Haki energy" was only used once in the simulcast
Said this ages ago. I haven't noticed a second time "Haki energy" was used in the simulcast, the only episodes I really skipped were a few in the Impel Down arc. Since that first episode it was mentioned, only "Haki" was used. The article should be changed to reflect that. Jinjo Ghost 18:39, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

And on a side note I just looked at Episode 151 on both the Hulu sub vid and the DVD and they both use the same sub line where Blackbeard says, "In terms of ambitious spirit, I didn't think he was even worth 30 million..." Jinjo Ghost 18:53, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

The second time energy was shown in the anime was when Luffy was fighting Boa Sandersonia and Boa Marigold. When he got angry, waves were seen emenating from his body. 18:57, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the over glorified effect the anime gives it, I'm talking about the name in simulcast subs. Jinjo Ghost 16:34, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Acronyms
I came across a forum post which says: "Luffy and Zoro will have all 3 hakis. Luffy having complete control of, and . Zoro's would be complete control of CoA, almost complete mastery of CoO and CoC. While Sanji would have complete mastery over CoA and CoO". I found these initialisms confusing, does anyone know what they mean? I'd like to redirect them to whatever abilities they refer to and understand what they stand for. Ty 11:58, July 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * CoC = Color of Conqueror = Haoshoku
 * CoO = Color of Observation = Kenbunshoku
 * CoA = Color of Armaments = Busoshoku
 * I created the redirections.

Limited precognition?
I've noticed that "limited precognition" is used to describe Kenbunshoku Haki, however that seems to be a misconception or speculation at most of it's true nature. As it was displayed and discussed by characters aware of it during the Skypiea Arc it is a form of mind reading or empathy, that allows the user to "read" the opponent before he makes his move.

Mantra 心綱（マントラ）, literally meaning "Mind Rope" allowed Enel and his Priests to apparently "predict" attacks before their opponents even made them but Enel was unable to use his Mantra on Luffy in certain cases. As demonstrated by the later when he used pure instinct to avoid being hit by Enel (shutting off his brain) or used his Gomu Gomu no Tako Hanabi on Maxim so that his limbs weren't directed by his will, rendering Enell unable to cope in both situations unable to use Mantra.

If Kenbunshoku Haki had truly precognitive abilities then it wouldn't rely on reading someone's thoughts to "foresee" things before they occurred nor would it be possible for others to counter it in that particular manner. It would be appropriate to remove this bit from the article as to avoid misleading the reader and resulting in misinformation and possible speculation. MasterDeva 20:14, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

In a sense, the predicting aspect of it can be seen as precognition. Remember when Luffy fought the Gorgon Sisters. Sandersonia was able to say how Luffy would attack her and then dodge or block accordingly. I don't think it's mind reading as much as seeing quick flashes of the future or something. 20:29, August 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I do remember, however, the Gorgon sisters were able to tell how Luffy would attack because he was thinking about the way to attack them. If you can recall further back Satori and the other priests did the same thing, not to mention Otohime's Kenbunshoku Haki that allowed her to see into a "person's heart" (like she did with Fisher Tiger) and others.


 * The images the user sees when he uses it are presented as merely the visual interpretation of the person's thoughts and not the actual future, it is the same as when they hear people's "voices" like Aisa and Coby have displayed. I would like to remind you also the above example of Enel's inability to hit Luffy or dodge his assaults when he wasn't consciously directing his attacks towards him. Kenbunshoku Haki is definitely a form of mind reading, going further than just allowing someone to feel the presence of others in the vicinity. MasterDeva 05:18, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think MasterDeva is totally right. And since the matter is not really clear, it's important to be careful distinguishing between what's sure and what's not to avoid confusion and "myths".

The only thing that's keeping me from fully agreeing with you is the thing that happened with Luffy and Mihawk where Luffy had the image of his arm being cut off flash into his mind. I'm not sure if that was Kenbunshoku Haki, but if it was, the mind reading thing wouldn't hold as much water since it was a possible vision of the future, unless Mihawk was trying to cut off Luffy's arm, but that doesn't seem logical. 04:23, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're forgoting though that Mihawk was fighting for real against Luffy to test his potential as the "shining star of the next generation" and wasn't holding back against him. That was the only reason why Mihawk would fight against someone like Luffy. As he wasn't someone near his Mihawk's level to begin with and he isn't someone interested in "weaklings" as he has mentioned before in the past. MasterDeva 07:46, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I don't get it, so would the arm thing be an instance of haki or not? 16:14, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

It would be, so as far as we've seen, Kenbunshoku haki can make you "hear the voices" of those still conscious(Skypiea), making you not read minds, but feel what is in their heart, its kinda contradicting since the one affected needs to be conscious to have his movements read, also Luffy used haki on a Pacifista going further with contradictions...so I'll try to mention here all the occurences of kenbunshoku haki:

The Mantra from Skypiea where Enel and his priests read the movements of their oponents, but it did not work when Luffy went unconscious or when he hit the wall so Enel couldn't read his movements anymore, Enel knew the exact position of everyone and he could hear what everyone was speaking also this is speculation, but Enel knew how many people would remain conscious in the end after his game, that little girl(cant remember her name, but its the one from Sff's avatar) also had haki and she said that she heard the voices of people from around the island, but whe those lost consciousness, they dissappeared

Haki was then used by Sentomaru to read Luffy's movements, the same goes for the snake sisters.

During the Marineford war, Luffy used haki(speculation, but it seems to be true) and Coby heard voices dissappearing during the war.

Later, Rayleigh explained Luffy what Kenbunshoku haki is from mangareader: "the power to feel anothers presence" and now that I actually reread it, I see that there is no need for writing anything else, haki is the power to feel someones presence, but then...Luffy used haki when fighting a Pacifista and this creates a small plothole, but it also creates speculation: Kenbunshoku haki grants you the power to feel the presence of objects, but as I said, PLOTHOLE, Enel couldn't read the movements of Luffy's arms which came at him and he was hit, then this is my theory: The greater your mastery with haki, the better you feel the presence of someone and at some level you get to feel the presence of even objects. Haki is no mind-reading, those voices in all scenrios are the real voices and the real words that those characters say out loud before they faint or die. Luffy didn't see what will happen, he felt what will happen to his arms at Marineford and that was made into images to be visualized, this could be because of his lack of training in it, also now I remmeber something that always happens to me when I close my eyes. When I close them, I can still see where my body is and in which position it is, I forgot how this is called, something like this is happening, and no I'm tired of writing, hope this clears anything...

I don't think the "mind-reading similarity" is a myth or a misunderstanding... even Rayleigh said shortly after what you quoted "their numbers (fell their presence)... and even what they will do in the next moment can all be gleaned". So when Luffy got that flash of Mihawk who cutted his arms, he felt his intent to cut his arms in his head, so it's like a premonition, but not really one (so we shouldn't mention "premonition"), because a real premonition is one like Shirley. We can get more info re-reading the Skypiea arc I guess.

Otohime has Haki?
I deleted the part about Otohime having haki, I think this was a bit speculative. If someone has a good reason for it, then please tell me and add a reference, but otherwise, this sounds too far-fetched.

 Pacifista15 | Talk | 0:20 7/Sep/2011 UTC

I think she has Haki, check out this pages and then decide.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c621/4.html she is dodging the bullets like she know where they are gonna hit.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c621/11.html On this page Neptune says that she has Haki.

Well still you decide. 01:55, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

She has haki. Change it back. Its right there in the manga, no need to talk about it.

LOL MDM!

Alright thanks, I must have skipped over that part. Thanks for that.  Pacifista15 | Talk | 3:07 7/Sep/2011 UTC

IMPROVING HAOSHAOKU HAKI

Seeing as the Haki page has been locked from editing I wasnt able to rectify a specific mistake.The Haki page incorrectly says that Kings haki can be improved througjh training.But the manga here says [|here] that Kings haki cant be improved through training only controlled.The Power of this haki grows withb the user spirit/will.

dosent zoro have haku because he has super human strength and can handle stuff know other human can like when kuma said if zoro took all luffys he would die for sure he took and survived and zoro has shown amzing power is it posble he has haku.

Zoro has haku
zoro has haku because he has show adnmorial strenghth and supassed the limits of a normal human like when kuma said if he took all of luffys damage with is current state he would surrley die but he does not he surrvived i have proof zoro can use haki watch this video i found on youtube it proofs it []

This is not the place for that. Try forums or even blogs.

it is iam saying put zoro under a haku user because this should be enoungh proof

No, Zoro didnt show any sign of haki..yet..

watch the video link click on the 24 then u will see.


 * 1) It's called "Haki", not "Haku".
 * 2) Your proof is not Haki, it's just intimidation. If it was Haki, they would've been knocked unconscious.
 * 3) Even if it was Haki, the scene is anime only & anime does not count as canon.
 * 海賊-姫 01:51, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

well he still used and it should count.

As I've just said:
 * If your proof was Haki, it does not count since it was NOT in the manga. However...
 * It is NOT Haki since the bounty hunters weren't knocked unconscious. They were just scared of Zoro.
 * 海賊-姫 02:01, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

it s because he did not try 2 knock them out he wanted know how 2 get 2 grove 1 he know if knocked them out he would not be able 2 tell me so he only used a little bit of haki.

Make up all the excuses you want. The fact remains that it was NON-CANON so it doesn't count. If you keep trying to press your argument you're just going to look foolish. 02:13, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

then why is he able 2 survive stuff a normal human cant wut about his super human strenghth and special abilites where does it come from he does not have devil fruit powers so it is probally haki..

Jus make a forum or a freaking blog

A lot of other people were able to survive stuff too. It doesn't mean haki was involved. The problem with hakimaniacs like you is that you're so bent on proving a character has haki that you don't even acknowledge that they could have done something using their own physical abilities. Until it comes from the manga and directly from a character's mouth, we will not even think about putting even the slightest mention of haki anywhere on Zoro's page or this one. Now, I suggest you drop the subject and save yourself a lot of trouble. 05:20, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

how about we put him as a haku user and right possbally with brackets and some people are saying asura might be a form of haku because when kaku was fighting zoro hesensed a weriod aura from zoro before he used asura just right down zoro like theis zoro(possbally)

that doesnt automatically mean he has haki, thats called speculation. you cant prove he has haki and in the video there us a difference between K. haki and pure intimidation. a one piece fan should know that zoro is an intimidating figure considering he was a supernova at the time and because of his nickname, pirate hunter. once there is clear proof that he is using B. haki or K. haki then we'll add it to his article but right now its pure speculation no matter the video or the argument. plus, the video is non-canon which means technically it didnt happen. Imhungry4444 14:47, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Face it, your argument has no solid evidence and is therefore invalid. If you continue to add Zoro to any of the users sections on this page it will be considered vandalism and you will be dealt with accordingly. 15:21, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Garp and the Vice Admirals
Garp is a Vice Admiral, so there really isn't any reason to seperate them in the list of people who can use haki.Redbird41 14:52, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

But we have only seen Garp "using" haki, for the other we don't even know which type they have, and saying both (although very possible) it's a speculation.

We haven't seen Garp use Haki. Unless your referring to the time he punched Luffy, and that wasnt confirmed as Haki.Redbird41 04:34, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the fact that he is a vice admiral and was able to injure Luffy with just his fist is proof that he used haki. 04:46, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

No, it doesn't prove that he use Haki. He's called Garp the Fist, it could be that he's just so strong physically that Luffy's not immune to his punches. Until it's confirmed that he used Haki in that instance, he didn't.Redbird41 07:56, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Don't make up excuses. Luffy can't be hurt by normal punches. In order for Garp to have hurt Luffy, Haki would have to be involved. The fact that he is a vice admiral only further supports it. What more do you want aside from the two most relevant pieces of evidence available? 16:28, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Garp used haki, it's exactly the same as Sentoumaru's palm trustes. It has also been mentioned both times it shouldn't have hurt luffy

Otherwise the others would have point it up that a rubber-man was hurt. If it was a comic effect, nobody would have point it out, like when Nami beats Luffy up.

A wiki isn't a place for speculation. If you guys want to discuss theories and speculation you should take it to a forum. A wiki is meant to deal in the facts. And facts are that it wasn't confirmed. Is it possible that he was using haki? Yes. Is it confirmed that he was using haki? No. So until that's cleared up he shouldn't get an individual mention. And furthermore, he can use haki, just like everyone else who's a Vice Admiral or at a higher rank. That includes Garp so there's no reason to seperate him.174.3.181.136 05:15, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

he also used haki when punching marco...cmon it's obvious he already used haki, why are we even still discussing this sss

THT is right. Just because it was never flat out said that he used it doesn't mean we should ignore what has already happened. He was able to hurt Luffy. What's more, it was acknowledged by the crew, so it wasn't just for comedic effect. He was able to hit Marco in one of his transformed states as well. Don't cling to the notion of stuff being said flat out, because a lot of times it won't be. There is more than enough confirmation that Garp can use Busoshoku Haki and it should be added. Ask yourself this, if it wasn't haki, then what else could it be? Something that actually isn't true like kairoseki brass knuckles? Please. Haki is the only answer. 17:00, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

But what we're discussing isn't whether or not he can use Haki. We already know that he can. He shouldn't be seperated from the Vice Admirals because the mention of Vice Admirals includes him. Either don't seperate him from the rest of the Vice Admirals, or name each Vice Admiral, Admiral, and Sengoku individually. Furthermore, you can't just jump to the conclusion that he used Haki against Luffy. Have you guys ever considered that he's just so physically strong he didn't need it? He's called Garp the Fist for a reason. The Marco example is a good one though.174.3.181.136 17:45, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

The harder you puch rubber the more it wil extent, but you wont do anything else to it, so if garp couldn't have punched luffy so hard it hurted him if you get what it mean....

Guys, in this latest episode in one of Luffy's flashbacks of busoshoku haki was garp so we can add him, not onl is he an admiral and it was clearly stated that all vice-admirals have haki, but he also hits Luffy and hurts him even though he's rubber, so we can stop saying its speculation, we should add him already

I was going to mention that if no one brought it up. As for the anon's comment, it is impossible and highly foolish to add every single vice admiral to the haki section when we don't know what types they use. We added Garp individually since we know what he can use. We can't do anymore until we find that out. 17:18, September 25, 2011 (UTC) There is a section for known users of Hak

There is a section for the known users of Haki and Vice Admirals are listed. That includes Garp. Now, if we know what type of Haki we use then by all means add him to the list under that type of Haki.174.3.181.136 20:00, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Improving Haki
Seeing as the Haki page has been locked from editing I wasnt able to rectify a specific mistake.The Haki page incorrectly says that Kings haki can be improved througjh training.But the manga here says [[23]] that Kings haki cant be improved through training only controlled.The Power of this haki grows with the user spirit/will.

Zionite7 20:41, September 23, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

Learning how to control it is the training. 20:48, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Luffy has increased his control in 2 years from training.No need to correct it thinking it as a mistake. 07:45, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Your missing my piont.The page incorrectly said that Kings haki improves with training.Rayleigh emphatically denied it .Rayligh said the other 2 hakis can be strengthened with training,whilst Kings haki is not.It is only strengthened by the users will.

The training therefore doesnt make Kings haki improved.It simply controls it.There is a big difference between controlling a power and stregthening a powerZionite7 06:53, September 25, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

I can' t see any big difference between them as controlling and strengthening needs a common thing "training". 09:19, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Theres a differrence because Rayleigh said there was one.The Haki page contradicts what Rayleigh said-It says CoC can be Improved through training.Rayleigh clearly said it cannot be.Therefore the Page should be corrected.

Training will not make improve the power of CoC haki.It can improve the power of the other 2 hakis but not CoC.To increase the power of CoC haki,the Users will has to grow.To summarize

The Other 2 hakis can be Controlled and Improved through Training

Coc haki can be controlled but not Improved through Training.

I hope its clearer nowZionite7 12:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)Zionite7

We already went over this. Learning to control it is the training. 15:28, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Zoro and Sanji confirmed haki in chapter 650?
I think it was pretty much confirmed that they have at least coo haki at this point, as they long with Luffy sensed where Caribou was. Which was one of the things coo allows you to do when Rayleigh explained it sensing the presence of others.

Also Sanji wanting to kick Caribou knowing he's a logia is another indication of haki.

I see this is still speculatory. Not hard proof enough yet. Until Sanji and Zoro actually kick or slash a logia, its not haki (or something else, which is proof enough).

Yeah... It's still speculatory... People may think that they have Haki... But the main reason is maybe that Luffy first knocked Caribou out with Haki, nullifying Caribou's powers thus allowing Zoro and Sanji to hit him.Evanalmighty 15:46, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, the coa haki I will concede on but I still think they should be given COO since this fits in with what we were told by Rayleigh, and it's almost never stated when Luffy's uses COO haki.

It's unconfirmed, so we aren't mentioning it. End of story. 02:35, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Has the take on this been changed yet? Confirmation by luffy that Zoro, Sanji and him Luffy have Haki... in chapter 668? (139.80.123.42 23:08, May 23, 2012 (UTC))

= 2012 =

Pekoms?
I went ahead and added Pekoms as a Busoshoku haki user, but a reference is needed. If there are any disputes, then feel free to remove.... 16:53, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how there would be. I mean, after punching a Logia and sending him flying, how much more proof do you need? 16:56, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Caribou faced him head on, no surprise attack or whatever.

However, I hope we haven't added Luffy to the people able to hit Logias yet. Because Caribou got caught off-guard as we found out this chapter (he doesn't know who has send him flying). 17:00, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well that it was haki in action XD. No dispute it seems.

Well, if there no argument, then where did his name go? I don't see it on the list anymore. 17:03, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Its straight up Haki..

Fine then, let's keep it that way....but it might help if we add a reference tag. 17:17, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Top Infobox Removal
I suggest we remove the infobox at the top of the page, Rokushiki doesn't have one at the top of its page, but it does for the various techniques, just as Haki does for its various "colors". GenkiMan 21:44, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

It can also be read as "Let's add one to Rokushiki"...

What Leviathan 89 said. 01:07, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

External link
Could somebody take out the link to the german wikia at the external link section? It's already linked via the language thingy at the bottom...Did I ever mention how I hate locked pages? 178.191.161.232 15:13, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Tabs
Should all 3 haki have seperate articles in Tabs?

User:COOLMAN1223455589617:00, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think that them being in one page is good enough.

First of all, it would be 3 subpages and 1 main page.

Second of all, there isn't so much to add about haki in general.

Third of all, there isn't so much to add about each separate form of haki.

So it'd be pretty pointless to have them in 4 tabs...

Btw, you should make your sig a template...which reminds me I have some sigs to create.

Zoro and Sanji should be added to list of Kenbunshoku Haki users.
It's confirmed with this chapter that they have haki and they should be added to list the Kensbunshoku Haki users because they demonstrated it when they sensed Caribou at the palace.

Which is what Rayleigh said was one of the aspects of it all even post a translation by Cnet128 for people don't believe it.

Rayleigh: The power to feel another's "presence" to an elevated degree... / This is "Observation Haki"!! // Master it, and you will be able to perceive enemies who lurk hidden out of sight... /

Which is excatly what Zoro and Sanji did now if people don't believe that is confirmation then your just being purposley dense or really stupid.

Link to translation: http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/24376

Thdyingbreed 17:21, May 23, 2012 (UTC)Thdyingbreed

They have been confirmed haki users, but not of a specific type. The Caribou thing is still speculative. 23:25, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

How is them doing excatly what Rayleigh stated an aspect of Kenbushoku haki is supposed to do in anyway speculative?

Explain it to me please.

24.79.202.74 02:31, May 24, 2012 (UTC)Thdyingbreed

As you can see from the various issues addressed on this talk page, haki is very easy to speculate on. As far as I know, we have adopted a policy of "unless-it-is-explicitely-stated-that-it-is-haki-then-it-is-wrong" in all but non-obvious cases. 02:43, May 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just to add to that, Rayleigh stated that hitting Logia users was a characteristic of Busoshoku haki, but somehow Luffy hit Ace and Smoker in Alabasta. I'm just saying that many things have many different reasons, and haki is a touchy subject, like Jademing said above. Until it is stated what types of haki they have, it's best to leave them alone. 02:46, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

It has been confirmed in the latest manga that Zoro and sanji can use haki.

174.130.223.139 01:30, May 28, 2012 (UTC)the master

Considering the fact that Mihawk and Ivankov trained Zoro and Sanji respectively, doesn't that logically mean that Mihawk and Ivankov are also capable of using haki and they just haven't shown in yet?

58.96.70.12 08:10, June 10, 2012 (UTC)SomeGuy

It's still speculation.

Ceasar Clown
I think that it is too early to place CC on this page under the Haoshoku Haki. Yes we know that he was able to knock specific people out using an unseen method, but he could have just used his gas powers. Until we have more information on his abilities he should be removed. In addition Smoker obviously knows about him and I do not see a marine not commenting on something as strong as that. The Bonehead Skipper 16:52, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Sanji-Nami
There's something that Sanji said/did in chapter 672 that's been bugging me. He was using KB Haki in Nami's body. Since Nami is confirmed not to be a Haki user at this time, that would mean that Haki, at least KB, is part of the mind rather than the body. Meaning you don't have to be in your own body to use it, as Sanji has demonstrated. I don't know if his difficulty with it while underwater stems from lack of experience or being in Nami's body, but the transferable aspect of it seems worth mentioning. We should say that so far it can only be applied to KB, and we don't know if it can work that way with the other two. Does anyone agree? 05:17, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

He said is ability with it was diminished because he was in her body so I don't know how you would note it. SeaTerror 05:22, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Haki originates from the spirit, that's how it was explained by Rayleigh. So the fact that Sanji can still use it in other bodies isn't really that surprising. However he does mention that his ability to use it is weakened by the transfer, so it'd be better to say, "Even if the user's spirit is transferred into another body, they are still capable of using Haki but to a weaker extent then if they were in their own original body." 05:25, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

CoO haki is hearing the 'voice' of the spirit. If the spirit weakens, they become more difficult to sense. In this case, Kinemon's torso was about to die from being eaten by the shark, which is why Sanji had difficulty distinguishing it from the other sea creatures (also remember Skypeia, where Enel couldn't couldn't sense Luffy when he was inside the snake). Given that haki literally means 'ambition' and Rayleigh's explanation tied it to the spirit, I don't see any evidence that being transferred to another body weakens it. Zodiaque 07:48, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Do Zoro and Sanji have Busoshoku Haki?
Ok, so I'm bringing this up because I seen that an editor have Zoro and Sanji have Busoshoku Haki (Haki of the Color of Armaments) which just in case you forgot, allows the user to create a force similar to an invisible armor around themselves for defensive or offensive purposes. I do know and it has been shown Zoro and Sanji can use Kenbunshoku Haki (Haki of the Color of Observation), but that is not what I'm concerning here.

Even though Law had stated that those who clad themselves in Haki shouldn't go near Caesar, Luffy just said that Zoro, Sanji, himself, can use Haki and assumed that Law could too. HOWEVER, it is not clearly stated or shown that either Zoro or Sanji can perform the usage of Busoshoku Haki, it is just stated that they can use Haki. It is two different things to use Haki and Busoshoku Haki.

So what I'm asking now is that until they are showing using or someone makes a clear statement (no speculation, has to be a sure statement) that they can use it, can we please take them off the list of known users of Busoshoku Haki?

Unless someone has a piece of evidence/proof that someone (within the manga) says that can use or Zoro/Sanji are shown using Busoshoku Haki. JonTheMan 04:13, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 668, Law tells Luffy that only those who can cover themselves in Haki are capable of defeating Caesar Clown. Luffy lists himself, Zoro, and Sanji as the only Haki users in the crew. Given that Law gave the stipulation that they have to be "covered" while talking about a Logia user, and that one cannot cover oneself in Kenbunshoku Haki, it can be concluded that those two can use Busoshoku Haki. 04:48, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, yes I saw that already and I am aware how Haki works (at least what has been shown and told and explained). But the response from Luffy merely was him just saying that Zoro, Sanji and him (and Law apparently) were capable of using Haki, even though Law gave the stipulation that only those capable of using Busoshoku Haki can fight Caesar. However, it has yet to be confirmed that either Zoro and/or Sanji are capable of using Busoshoku Haki. If Luffy said, that the 3 of them (Monster Trio) can use Busoshoku Haki, then I wouldn't be here, but I believe that until it is shown or said otherwise, the listings of their names in the Busoshoku Haki section should be removed. JonTheMan 06:49, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

But it's been said. Luffy told Law that they can use Haki when Law was specifically asking about Busoshoku. And since you can't cover yourself in the other two, buso is the only one that's left. It wasn't the most direct way of stating it, but it's still direct enough to make the information apparent. 06:59, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I guess. But I doubt that Oda will have Zoro or Sanji square off with Caeser at all since he is the head boss of this arc (for now at least). I still think most of us assumed that Luffy answered Law's statement that Zoro and Sanji can use Busoshoku Haki, however I do not think so. Until then, only Oda can prove us wrong/right. JonTheMan 23:38, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Then leave Zoro and Sanji in the Busoshoku Haki user list, and if they are proved not to have it, then we can remove both. Simple as that. 23:41, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Possible reference to Newtypes
While Haki is more likely based off of the concept of ki from the Dragonball series. It seems like it may also be partially based off the concept of Newtypes from the Universal Century era of Mobile Suit Gundam, particularly the Kenbunshoku Haki and the fact that it remains latent in people and awakens under different circumstances. An example being Coby during the war at Marineford, after seeing the death of several Marines and began to hear their voices disappearing. Jigsaw Billy (talk) 15:12, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know for sure, so no.

Gear Fourth
Does anybody else think Luffy might reach Gear Fourth by using Armament Haki on his entire body? It's separate from his Devil Fruit powers, and it bypasses defenses of other Devil Fruit users, so he would have a much better chance against Blackbeard's Kurozou. What do you think?

This isn't a forum, take your idea somewhere else please. 08:28, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 684 Blackening
Ok, so I think after the events of Chapter 684, we need to re-evaluate our stance on the visibility of Armament Haki. I could handle writing off Luffy's "blackening" as being special vulcanization due to the Gomu Gomu no Mi, and Vergo's as being some unknown ability, but Smoker also using it is too much. And he DOES use it because it's a whole section of his arm, not just his gloves that turns black. Also, on the page before that, it appears as though he may have also used it on his Jute (page 5).

So what are we going to do on our pages given this new evidence? 17:05, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

As much as I don't like it, I think we should go ahead and confirm this as Haki. There is simply no other logical explanation for Smoker's arm. If so, we should go through the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Vergo, Smoker, and Haki pages and add this new info. We shiuld also probably go back and edit the chapter notes of the chapters where it was first seen (the blackening, that is).

As a counterpoint, Smoker's jutte was blackened in his fight with Law. 20:09, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't see the jutte blackened in his fight with Law... 22:17, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Argh, sorry, that's what I meant. And Luffy didn't blacken his arms when grabbing Caesar either. My guess is that one can use Haki to touch someone without hardening their arm, or they can use the hardening effect, which blackens their arm. The again, this is a guess. 00:51, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

In order to correct all the pages, we'll need to have a decent theory to explain why we haven't seen blackening before. We'll have to have a decent reason. Here's my attempt to make one: I think that when using on your own body, it blackens you. But if you're using it outside of your body it's invisible. Cases of external use to touch someone, or to deflect an attack like one of Hancock's sisters or when the 3 Admirals used it, or when used offensively like Sentomaru does for all his attacks or like Rayleigh showed during his example. As far as cases where someone has applied Haki to their own body or weapons (not the arrows of the Kuja), I don't think we've seen any examples besides Post-TS stuff. Does that sound reasonable? 01:05, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would hold off on trying to explain it for now, given that the reason for the blackening has yet to be explained and is still the subject of debate on forums. I don't really agree with your inside/outside theory - my interpretation is that a blackened body part is stronger but inflexible, whereas the invisible/shockwave effect is weaker, but can still hit logias and is more flexible. While there's still disagreement, I'd keep it off the pages. 06:55, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Well, of course we need to wait for a good confirmation. But this about we should say on our pages now. Our current logic is that only Luffy can use Haki to vulcanize his rubber and turn it black. That's just been proven to be incorrect, so we need to figure out what to put on our pages now in order to hold us over until a good confirmation comes along. 07:01, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Only a few people thought it was brought about by vulcanization. The actual pages (both Luffy's and the Haki page) just say it looks like vulcanization, which is fine. I would keep Busoshoka Koka as a Luffy-only technique for now, but put a sub-bullet point saying that Vergo and Smoker have done the same thing, without naming the technique. As for explaining it - all we can say for now is that it's a technique that uses Busoshoku Haki to harden body parts. 07:14, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is clearly not vulcanization or Luffy's technique - in fact, this theory was a gun jumper as there was nothing to believe that a) it was vulcanized rubber and b) Luffy invented a haki technique - I had always been opposed to the very idea that Luffy created this technique. This chapter highly suggests that this haki technique is shared and we can easily derive Smoker and Vergo are capable of using it. I have edited it so it reflects this. If you have evidence that suggests otherwise, then show it. Nexus32 (talk) 05:35, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it's the same technique, what I meant was that Luffy is the only person who has named it Busoshoku: Koka. It could be a scenario like Geppo and Sky Walk - the same technique with two different names. The other possible alternative is that Rayleigh may have taught Luffy the technique and its proper name, but there's no evidence to suggest that this has occurred. 06:32, October 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Zodiaque pretty much summed up what I was going to say about it. 13:46, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * It is possible that the blackening can only be seeing by people "sensitive" to Haki (people with a fair use of it at least. And since Luffy now has mastered his Haki, the reader sees with a Haki User perspective. Other possibility would be that it happens when Haki is highly concentrated on a single area. Does anyone have confirmation of a non-haki user noticing the blackening? 177.142.195.79 10:08, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, because your first idea is completely wrong, and the second one is completely obvious. So obvious, that it was already on the page 18:32, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * It isn't. Both my suggestions are speculations just as what you're saying now it. Difference is: I'm admiting it's only spectulation and asking if someone has PROOF or hints that it may be right or wrong. You're very enfatic for something you don't actually have a clue, since Oda hasn't said anything yet. My purpose here is to avoid rash judgements such as saying that "Haki definetely is visible", when we don't know who is it visible to. Everyone? Only few? Because CoA Haki has been used a bunch of times before, but never had it been black and now we've seen 3 people blackening parts at the same arc. Another hint is that, when Luffy fights at Marineford, someone states that his strength is raw strength, without Haki, hinting that this person is able to notice if an attack is imbued with Haki, something Luffy couldn't tell at that time. Next time, mister, add something that isn't your sheer opinion.


 * Coming back to my original issue, because this is not a forum to discussion ideas: Does anyone have PROOF of a non-haki user that can notice the blackening? For instance, if Usopp or Nami mentioned it, it's safe to say that anyone can see. I got back to the Kraken chapter and nobody mentioned the blackening (those who can use Haki wouldn't be surprised, but the others should). That way, it can be said that it IS visible. If not, we need official confirmation from Oda.177.142.195.79 22:50, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

The first reason your theory makes no sense because Oda doesn't draw things as characters perceive them, he draws them as they are. The second reason is that Luffy wasn't there at the beginning of the war, and he was knocked out at the end... how would his perspective make any difference if he wasn't present? 06:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Anime image
The current image is from the manga. An anime image was suggested previously, but was reverted because the manga image was being used in an SBS page. I made the anime image its own thing, but apparently it doesn't showcase Haki well enough.



If that's not good enough, does anyone have another image from the anime that visually represents Haki well? There's no law saying is has to be the exact same panel from the manga. The Pope 14:05, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

There's no law that it has to be that manga image, but there's no law that it has to be an anime image either. I don't see anything wrong with leaving the Manga image. 17:40, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

The "wrong" thing about leaving the manga image is that it can easily be replaced by an anime image, which results in higher quality. 21:31, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * And you called me biased... There's more to an image's quality than just colour. Every image has to be assessed on its own merits, rather than a flat anime>manga approach (which is becoming increasingly difficult for you to justify, as the anime's art and animation quality keep decreasing). In this case, to the best of my knowledge there isn't any anime image that shows the same 'invisible force' effect as in the manga, so the manga image should stay. 01:21, November 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with Zodiaque. If the anime pic wasn't labelled, everyone would think it was Rayleigh holding his hand out. The manga shows the idea of haki much better. 01:32, November 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I also don't know of an image from the anime that adequately "shows" haki, which is the entire point of the infobox picture. If any image shows up that's better than the one we have, I'm game for it, anime or manga. But until that image shows up, this one should stay. 01:39, November 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * There is no anime equivalent of this example. The manga clearly shows an aura surrounding his hand, while the anime has never shown such a thing. The manga should stay.  06:38, November 3, 2012 (UTC)