Talk:Hody Jones

name
unless I'm mistaken his name was not revealed in chapter 608 and 609 is not out yet... so where is this name coming from??

There is absolutely no evidence that backs this up. The spoilers for 609 aren't even out yet. I'll mark it for deletion until or unless further information is revealed.DancePowderer 15:48, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

I withdraw my last statement, spoilers are out. I'll still mark it for deletion until the chapter comes out.DancePowderer 15:57, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Chapter's out on mangastream. They spelled the first name "Hodi", but they're pretty famous for their translation errors, so I wouldn't put too much faith in it. Regardless, he is named, so the article is fine for now...Gerokeymaster 21:37, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

I was he one who posted that, I Looked up a spoiler (On Christmas Day I Believe) and as I read it said Hody Jones, And as I looked at another spoiler it shoed the same thing but the translation could of been off my bad--

User:Ryahoe

His name can be spelled Hodi, Hody, or any other way that has that pronunciation. Article is most definitely not fine, just look at the romanization, his name is clearly NOT Hordy.

What romanization? Which databook/manga chapter had it? SeaTerror 23:49, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

The romanization on the page. Do you even read the manga? Every chapter out since his introduction has had his name spelled as Hodi.

That's the romanization that the translation groups have chosen to give him. Unless I missed it, then give the chapter/source where the official romanization was given. leviathan_ 89  13:32, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

The translation groups are the ones this site should be following, they're the authorities on the spelling/pronunciation since they actually do the translations.

I don't know who chose this romanization and I agree that until the official one come out we have to follow the one of the scanlation group, but there isn't only one scanlation group so maybe this name comes from another group (I usually follow mangastream). But please sign your post (with four tildes ~ ) and if you keep editing on this wikia you should register yourself. leviathan_ 89  14:05, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Why is he a replacement for fisher tiger?
Which part says he's a replacement?ANd Fisher Tiger is a captain in sunny pirates.Jinbei somewhat replace him but this hordi guy??u gotta be kidding change the sentece or delete it.!220.255.2.21 09:27, December 27, 2010 (UTC)Awesome!

Trivia Section
It basicly speculating that he is Arlong's brother, but we can't speculate until proven otherwise. Unless someone gives me a good reason to keep it, I'm going to delete it until then. We should keep this site with facts and not rumors. (68.36.166.78 12:36, January 15, 2011 (UTC))

Spelling Errors
Who created/edited this page ? It had a number of spelling errors and grammatical errors, which i corrected (although apparently my user was not logged on). The sentences ran onto each other and it could get confusing. And i thought this was kind of like a formal wiki ? Legendary857 22:59, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well it's a wikia. Anyone can edit, that's why we've got users like you to come fix up grammar and spelling. Keep it up. :) -- YazzyDream  23:15, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

White Shark
Am I the only one who thought that those ES steroids were based on the White Sharks reaction to blood? Maybe we could put that in the trivia? 213.65.173.166 21:57, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

It makes them feral but it doesn't increase their muscle mass or strength. I'd hold off on adding it until we know a bit more about it.DancePowderer 22:44, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Possible inspiration
It's possible that Hordy Jones and Vander Decken IX are modelled on "il Gatto e la Volpe" (The Cat and the Fox) from Collodi's Pinocchio. Here the things in common:


 * In Disney's Pinocchio the Fox and the Cat are given the names "Honest" John Worthington Foulfellow and Gideon, John can be connected with Jones (I think there isn't yet an official romanization).


 * Hordy Jones is wearing a dog-like scurf, which can be a fox.


 * The Japanese bullhead shark is called "cat shark" in Japanese (see Mangastream's note in Ch. 613, although I didn't find a reference on wikipedia).


 * In the Disney's version the cat tries to hit people with a hammer, this could be a reference to the Mato Mato no Mi.


 * Hordy Jones and Vander Decken IX team up in order to destroy Ryugu Kingdom. In Pinocchio, they go as far as tried to attempting to murder Pinocchio in order to rob him.

What do you think? Can they be modelled on them? It's not the first time that Oda's get inspiration from Pinocchio, see when Laboon ate the Going Merry for example. If you think it's all right go ahead, but I think we should wait a little longer before put this. leviathan_ 89  23:50, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Hold off on putting it in. It's a good catch and it may be the basis, but I'm kind of iffy, on adding it. Could you by any chance add some links to clips of the movie where these characters are present? That might help somewhat.DancePowderer 23:55, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I think we should wait too, so their personalities will be more developed and we'll have more to discuss, that's why I put it on the talk page. I read something similar on iternet and I found it interesting. Meanwhile I'll look for some pics or detailed references and if someone founds other things in common he can put them here. leviathan_ 89  00:33, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Commenting here as well since you said here happens the "official" discussion.

This is really interesting. It makes sense considering the strange "catlike" mouth of Vander Decken and the fox (?) hanging around Hordi's neck. In addition, now it suddenly makes sense why Neptune has such a long.....wait for it...nose.

http://img535.imageshack.us/f/longnose.jpg/

Jinbe 00:46, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Wow that's really funny! But I don't know about Jones being Johns or something, since if it were Johns, the japanese would be　ホーディ　ジョンズ　instead of　ホーディ　ジョーンズ. Also, I doubt Oda knowing the disney version of Pinocchio since it's a pretty old movie, and unless you live in the U.S., there's a slim chance of getting your hands on that movie as a Japanese. Also, I think Neptune being based on Santa Claus would be a better deduction in this case, since everyone in Japan knows that dude, and his laugh/looks are very similar to that of SC. Let us just leave the page alone for now until we get a confirmation. 01:04, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

It is tough to confirm trivia, most of our information in that sector is uncertain (but likely). I think it would be a waste to deny people an interesting read because Oda didn't directly confirm it.

Also, Neptune resembling Santa Claus doesn't necessarily block all other interesting connections - after all Oda is known for mixing the various things he sees around him. It wouldn't surprise me if Neptune is a mix of Santa Claus, Pinocchio and King Triton from the little mermaid.

And for the Disney version of Pinocchio not being known in Japan...I have no idea...but at least Oda isn't just a regular japanese. He is a high class mangaka, he, for sure, read/watched western animations. The works of Walt Disney would be the bread and butter in that department.Jinbe 01:29, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well, thanks for your opinion on the name JapaneseOPfan, it's good to have a more accurate reference on this, but I completely missed Neptune's nose! I agree he's based on Santa though, but I agree nothing prevent Oda to use various characters for inspiration as well. But if Neptune is the "Pinocchio" of the situation, well, in Collodi's story the Fox and the Cat went as far as hang him on a tree, so I'd like too see what Hordy and Decken will try to do to Neptune!!! And for the Disney's version, actually I would be more surprised if Oda knows the Collodi's version than the Disney's one, because I myself am Italian and I never read the whole novel (shame on me), but I barely remember the movie. And it's not the first time that Oda's get inspiration from Pinocchio, aside from the Laboon thing don't forget Usopp! At the end of the arc it will be more clear and if we keep this in mind we can find more references, that's why I wrote this discussion now. leviathan_ 89  01:40, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

You found some connections between a movie and a manga. Congratulations. Do you want a prize? Because nobody on here is going to write up your conclusions as fact, as that would be LYING. Unless Oda himself says "I got the inspiration for these characters from Pinocchio", then nobody cares about any connections you think there might be.


 * Hey come on... if we'll follow what you said we must delete every trivia that brings up "similarities" with other works too, because none of them are officially declared. I wrote that in the talk page because I thought it was too vague to put already in the actual page and to see if anybody else would have found out other connections. There is no need to post something like that... and at least sign your posts anonymous... leviathan_ 89  13:23, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Then we should delete every trivia that brings up similarities with other works. This is a wiki, you post confirmed facts on a wiki, if you post any speculation at all there should be a heading for speculation.


 * Well I chose the wrong title for this topic, actually the trivias bring up the similarities with other work (as possibilities) they don't state that Oda got inspiration from this or that work. I think they are worth to be mentioned (I'm not referring at this in particular but at the others on the wikia) leviathan_ 89  14:12, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance
I was re reading the recent chapters and ive discovered Hody also wears a black sash tied around his waist

this can be seen in chapter 611 page 6 middle panel right after Hody pops the ES pills then this can be seen

again in the same chapter on page 14 middle panel.Hordy4040 06:57, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

energy steroid section?
they said in chapter 611, that the energy steroids increases fishmen strength 20 times for each individual steroid taken, so mathematically that since Hordy had consumed 4 energy steroids, it would increase his strength 8 times, not 16 times, which would equal 160 times power increase, the 80% power increase comes from consuming four pills, not eight. As 20 times 4 equals eighty, not onehundred and sixty. Wikia Helper 19:11, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

"One pill enhances the strength of the user two-fold, therefore a fishman's strength will become twenty times that of an average human. Two pills will make it four-fold, and each additional intake will continue to increase the strength exponentially. Jones took four pills so he gained a sixteen-fold enhancement, making him at least one-hundred-sixty times stronger than an average human."

Pandawarrior 19:23, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Surname Issue
I've noticed that there are a lot of people refering him by his surname (Hordy) rather than Jones. Am I missing something that both names are his first name?68.36.166.78 22:52, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

NAME
His name is Hodi Jones, not Hordy Jones, where in the world did you get this convoluted spelling of his name?

in every chapter he is called hodi jones,not hordy,so i truly dont see why

178.118.121.7 16:55, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Hodi is the romanization. Hordy is basically english. 17:03, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Hordy or Jones
I think the proper name to call him is going to become an issue. We refer to him as Jones in the articles, but the manga refers to him almost exclusively as Hordy. It seems odd, it would be like refering to Zoro as just Roronoa. I know we usually go by the given name and not the family name, but it appears to be the opposite with Jones. To make it work, that would mean his actual name would be Jones Hordy. What do you think should be done about it? 20:03, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well this is the strange part. In Japan, usually we read names backward (like Monkey D. Luffy) unless the person is a foreigner. In the foreigner case, you read the name normally like I don't know, "Michael Jones". The strange part I was saying is that almost everyone in the series has a foreign name but you read it the Japanese-person way. I guess Oda just wanted Jones' name to sound good since Jones Hordy sounds strange. The other scenario can be that Jones is actually his given name! Give me a second to check the raw and see what he is called. 20:40, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Okay so far it's Hordy. 20:54, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

So we'd refer to Hordy Jones as Hordy, the same way we'd refer to Monkey D. Luffy as Luffy. But I remember Hammond refering to him as Hordy Jones when he tried to take the Straw Hats to him, unless the raw said Jones Hordy. So, we should refer to him as Hordy from here on out or keep it as Jones? This would also raise the same question about Fisher Tiger's name. 21:36, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, well everyone refers to him as Hordy Jones so that's confirmed. I guess we can say Hordy if we want to go according to the manga, but people may disagree. As for Fisher Tiger, that's real hard since everyone so far called him by his full name. 21:58, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it may be more or less like Shuraiya Bascùd, whose name is inverted from the rest of One Piece. Or maybe calling him Hordy is similar to people calling others by their family names, like "Kiriyama" instead of "Kazuo". Japanese tends to call others by their family names out of formality or because they are not close enough to each other. Yatanogarasu 22:04, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

The thing is, the story isn't set in Japan, or anywhere on Earth for that matter. There seem to be no set rules for naming conventions in One Piece, and even major characters like Sanji and Nami get away with only having one name. While I would personally refer to him as "Jones", it would be safer and more professional to refer to him as "Hordy" on this wiki, as that's what they call him in-universe. Who knows, maybe Oda will later explain the reason for this. 96.237.177.144 02:49, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I am an unregistered editor, but I changed the last sentence in the "history" section of this page, as it erroneously (IMHO) claims that Zoro "slices up" Hordy Jones, but he seems to have just cut him pretty bad. 75.74.210.45 05:49, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

i wouldn't say that,we can't see the "slice he made" and by now we can't even know if hordy has no trick left upon his sleeve

Personality
Ok, I'm wondering why there are so many references to Blackbeard and Arlong in his personality section

I mean the Article isn't called "Hordy Jones with a hint of Blackbeard & a bit of Arlong" I guess I can understand

the Comparison to Arlong he is kind of trying to be just like him but Teach???? what does Hody's situation have anything to do with him? the last four lines in his personality are errelevent,it should be erased.Hordy4040 21:04, March 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement with the last statement. Since they are related matters, it is okay to reference Arlong. However, there is no relation to Teach at all between the two characters. One-Winged Hawk 21:38, March 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, there is no need to keep relativing characters back to the same character. Don Krieg tricked the Marines in a past campagine by making them think he was Marine when not. In a way, he is the first to betray a side, though he did not join. It doesn't matter, characters will often share traits with each other, however, by the time you've said character X no.5 has betrayed, is it really worth even mentioning it? Ask yourself, does this make the event special anymore once so many characters have done it? No it doesn't, we should stop trying to put every character name on every page. One-Winged Hawk 22:59, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Disney reference
I decided to remove and keep Disney referrences as this is problematic right now to add.

See here.

Disney isn't the only one to use the things mentioned in the arc, I doubt it is more then chance theres things like a Kraken and the flying Dutchman together. HOWEVER, Fishmen appeared in One Piece before POC got where it did. Remember that. It makes some aspects of the Disney referencing difficult to judge.

Also, Davy Jones Got referenced Previously so it makes it even harder since Oda's referenced the name once before. One-Winged Hawk 23:13, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Age
he was 15 years old 15 years ago if you read the last chapter you would see that they jump a head to 15 years ago after Arlong and Jinbe meet Fisher Tiger

Romanized name confirmed
Oda confirmed it's Hody and not Hordy so I think this should be changed in all articles pertaining to Hody.Hordy4040 15:40, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Hordy Jones not hody
I am so confused. Is it, Hordy or Hody? And I believe that Jinbe is gonna join the Straw Hats as the 10th crewmate.

Chapter 631, somewhere between pages 5-8 spells it as Hody not Hordy. And if you want to discuss the future of the Straw Hat crew, please go to forums :)74.105.224.17 18:55, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Control over marine monster
Hi! Reading chapter 630, the last page, I thought perhaps Hody can control marine monsters, similar to Jinbe's whales. A pirate said that the beasts are under Hody's control. Aoshi shigamori 22:01, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well, fishman are able to communicate with marine life, so if properly trained, they would only respond to one person. It's like training a dog, only in this case for warfare. 22:04, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Change in appearance after Energy Steroids?
Shouldn't it be mentioned that after overdosing on Energy Steroids that he also got a light sash to replace the dark sash he had before overdosing on Energy Steroids?Iamnofool1 18:31, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

He also switched his light colored shorts to black ones, that turns light as it goes further down, he switched to light sash after overdosing on Energy Steroid, shouldn't that be mentioned under his appearance?Iamnofool2 20:43, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

spelling error in trivia?
The word plight needs to be addressed, as it is mispelled phlight, when the actual word is plight.Iamnofool2 17:52, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

If it's just a spelling error just correct it. You don't have to ask that.

Main Picture
I noticed that the main picture has been changed to Hody's appearance after his transformation from Energy Steroids. I think that it should be reverted to Hody's appearance before his transformation. While I know that anyone looking at a wikia is kind of asking for spoilers, I don't think that the representative image of a character should be a look they don't sport until after they're introduced. I mean, are we going to change the Straw Hats' main image to their post time-skip looks once the anime catches up? Because at this point, their looks prior to the time-skip are definitley more iconic. I've gotten sidetracked, but I think the argument needs to get out there. Memnarc 10:58, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it is too early to use his after-ES picture, since we have no confirmation that this appearence is permanent. We have a similar case with Alvida, tho there we know for sure that she wont loose her powers (and thus appearence). 11:12, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Agree too.

Power level
It seems that he is stronger than Arlong but weaker than Jinbe.Should we add a section about his power level?Antonisgabrielides 16:55, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

No, just talk about what he can do. If we start talking comparitively, then the problems on the blogs will spill over to articles and we'd have constant edit wars all over the place. 17:07, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Unless there is clear reference from manga source. 08:13, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Which picture should we use?
I am not sure whether or not we should use a picture of Hody after or before his steroid-induced transformation. One reason is that it's a spoiler, another reason is that we have no confirmation whatsoever whether or not this transformation is permanent. In storyline, he only had this appearance for a couple of hours. If it stayed for, say, a few days, I think it would be more clear, but I right now I don't see a reason to use a picture of him after the transformation. 84.59.39.185 08:56, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

First of all, this entire wiki is a spoiler, however it does not add ninformation before the translation is out. Have you seen how every image from the infoboxes is a post timeskip image of that character and if it has a switch, the first image to be seen is the post timeskip image. The most recent form of Hody is that of him after the transformation, don't worry, it can be changed once it is shown that the transformation is not permanent. Although it hasn't been discussed properly in this case, I agree that this image is better, just because it shows the form Hody is fighting Luffy in, the form in which the action happens. And I think that we've seen him in more panels in this form than in the other one already, should I check?

Regarding post-timeskip images: The timeskip happened in chapter 598, which was released October 4th 2010 - that's one year ago which means it's definitely less of a spoiler. But that issue is entirely secondary. Second, if we go by "that's his current fighting form", the page picture for Gekko Moriah should have been changed when chapter 481 was released. Counting panels is irrelevant. If we got a brief appearance of one of the demon guards from impel down in his (or her?) human form, we should use that one for the page. Ivankov has spent a lot of his panel time with his face growth hormones injected and it wouldn't matter if it would make up the majority of his panel time. But my primary issue is this: You got the order wrong. We shouldn't change the image back once we learn it was only temporary, we should wait until we learn whether or not it's permanent until we change the picture. 84.59.39.185 16:42, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well its pretty rude to say that I got the order wrong, I mean, its been changed and I don't see a problem to it, "what's done is done", the order that I gave is correctm since no one has a problem with the current image except for you. So if he appears to really revert back to his form before he became like this, it will be changed back to that, why bother so much when you have no facts to prove you are right, just wait and we'll see what happens. And I said why it is important that he appears in more panels like that, because in the Image Guidelines is stated that the most commonly seen appearance is to be used in the infobox.

Spoilers don't matter but the IP is right about the fact it shouldn't be changed just because something might be permanent. Also for the record it should have never been changed because the most current image discussion was about pre and post time skip only. Not if a change happened during the timeskip. SeaTerror 22:07, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why we couldn't just go with the most recent change. Keep his new form until we know if he'll change back. If we're wrong, and he does change back, we'll just fix it again. We're allowed to make mistakes, we don't have to get everything right exactly right the first time. Look at what we did for Zoro's bounty. When it was said to be 160 million, we changed it to 160 million. Then, when that turned out to be a mistake, we changed it back. It's not the end of the world if we have to change his picture back to his old form. If we want to keep things current, and up to date, then we should go with what he currently looks like in the manga. 22:11, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed, beside it's been some chapters that he is in that form.

Chapters aren't the best way to measure this. True, it's been several chapters, but in the manga it's only been 2 or 3 hours. Just saying. 00:24, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

I was just thinking, why not take the same path we did with Duval? He has a before and after change like this and we went with the after shot. And we know his doesn't necessarily have to be permanent since Wanze changed back to his original appearance after continuing his fight with Sanji after his deformation. So, theoretically, Duval could be changed back too. We have Duval after Sanji beat him up since that is how he is currently and we have Wanze in his original appearance for the same reason. It would only make sense to do the same thing with Hody Jones and act accordingly should his appearance change further. 01:18, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Considering Zoro's bounty, there was no way we could have know it was a mistake (similarly, his eye). That's not a mistake on our part - we were given wrong information and corrected it later. With Hody, we simply don't know. His appearance after his transformation has its place, but until we know whether or not it's permanent, it shouldn't be used as his main picture. Wanze changed back because his 'transformation' was undone by a kick in the face by Sanji, so it's not like we know that it runs out of time or something like that. The issue with Duval is that he has stayed this way for several years now, yet Hody took steroids that were supposed to have temporary effects so we really have no idea whether or not the resulting transformation will wear off. The number of chapters is irrelevant: he hasn't even completed a single confrontation in this form, the first time we saw him was on the plaza and since then, he has been fighting almost continuously for what couldn't have been more than an hour. What we could do is something similar to the post-timeskip picture frames: give him a "before" and "after" picture. But the mindset of "Let's just do it this way - if we get it wrong we will change it later" is simply to arbitrary and conflicts with the general paradigm of "Wait for confirmation". 84.59.62.254 11:16, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Its all a matter of how you damn look at it, in the image guidelines its stated that we should use the most seen in look, but that means both images are good, this argument is basically USELESS, as no matter how much you discuss, nothing will change at all. We can take it like this, most seen in as in a whole lifetime or in the manga, it matters only in what way you look at it. IP, you are right and we are right too, but it all depends on what the admin wants, he is not an admin for no reason, he said here on this talk that its ok to stay like this so just let it be.

Actually, and maybe I wasn't clear, I was saying I want the post-ES transformation in the infobox. If we think too far ahead about this stuff, we just start doubting ourselves and getting into dumb arguments like this. Take the story as it comes. And right now, Hody is in his muscular physique from the overdose. He may revert, he may not. Either way, it's not the end of the world if he does and we have to change the infobox picture back to fat Hody. The same should be done for Hyouzou, and any other character who undergoes a physical transformation mid-storyline. It's like "innocent until proven guilty" only this time it's "permanent until proven temporary." 19:18, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

You're thinking too far ahead yourself. You're assuming all changes are permanent. Me might a well change Nami's image when she only wears one outfit for a chapter/episode. SeaTerror 20:09, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not talking about clothes, and you know that. I'm talking about bodily, biological changes, like Hody's. If Nami's clothing suddenly gains a ton of muscle, then we can talk about wardrobe. 20:29, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Nope. It is exactly the same thing since you want to go with what is the most current image. SeaTerror 00:31, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

How is it the same? Clothing doesn't matter here. If Hody just changed his outfit I wouldn't do anything about it, but his actual physical appearance has changed. It should be updated to show his current bodily appearance. 00:38, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

So we should change Luffy's main picture to Gear Third? SeaTerror 04:08, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

No, because he isn't in Gear Third constantly, unlike Hody's case. You don't see Luffy walking around casually with steam coming off of his body. Hody, however, maintains his new form in all circumstances after transformation. 04:17, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

You missed the point. Just because something might seem permanent does not mean it is. SeaTerror 04:18, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

I know, and until proven otherwise it would be best to use his current appearance. Why wouldn't we want to keep it up to date? Also, I just realized, why not do to Hody the same thing that was done with Hyouzou? 04:25, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

How would that be best? SeaTerror 07:27, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Because that way we get both pictures in the infobox. 07:34, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

"and until proven otherwise it would be best to use his current appearance." SeaTerror 14:18, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Should we act as if Wadatsumi is permanently blown up? Should we have assumed that Gekko Moriah stays in Shadow Asgard Mode? Should we have believed that Ivankov keeps his giant head or that Brook will forever have broken bones after fighting Ryuma? The only change of appearance that has not been permanent is Duval, so we have one example where we would have been right and otherwise we would have always, always been wrong. The only major example where a temporary change should have resulted in a change of picture would have been Buggy after he lost his limbs, but even that seems sketchy. I'd say his picture should be done the same way as Hyouzous. OverrideOTO 17:11, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

SeaTerror, quoting me there makes no sense, since you didn't seem to get I was trying to propose the same compromise as was done with Hyouzou. As for the other examples, Moriah and Ivankov's were changes from Devil Fruit abilities that could be controlled by the user, making it clear they weren't permanent. As for Brook, it was explained prior how he was able to heal himself and Wadatsumi is in the same boat as Ivankov and Moriah only not a Devil Fruit. His engorging is still a controlled ability. The examples given are all internal forces that can be controlled while the transformation came from an external source. Yes, Devil Fruits are external forces in gaining the power, but not using it once gained. That's the difference. 20:25, October 13, 2011 (UTC)