Forum:Image Wars

It's obvious that for the last few months, we've had many different edit wars, and part of it is due to the fact that it isn't quite clear how edit wars is supposed to be run. Many people tend to make up their own rules, the most popular being the "default" rule, which is keeping it at its original version until the talk page as decided. But some people prefer a rule of it being the previously accepted version. We sort of have different unwritten policies with this subject, but everyone views it differently. I checked our guidelines, but it says nothing about any "default" rule, unless I'm missing something. We should definitely take care of this now. We need an actual rule on how to deal with Image Wars. 20:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Definitely the first uploaded version. If we use a "previously accepted" rule, we fall into a grey area where we need to how long a version has to be in place to be "accepted". Plus, there's issues where two images are uploaded within the same hour and there is no "accepted version". It's much less complicated to use the first uploaded of the images being edit warred over.

Something else that might be of use is to create a category that Edit War adds, so that the community can keep track of images that are being edit warred over. That way, no images can fall through the cracks and become not so much "previously accepted" as "previously ignored". 21:14, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. I'd rather have the "previously accepted" rule, as that keeps it how it currently was. I think however long it should be determines if the war is over. A set length will just cause conflict, so if the war is over and it's been decided, then we use the version that was accepted before the edit war. 20:18, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with what Nada said above. 20:23, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

What about for brand new images? That plan doesn't account for them. 20:43, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Probably will have to have different guidelines for those. Specifically, use the first uploaded for them, and use the accepted version for established images. 20:56, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Why not just have one simple rule? If there's an edit war going on about versions, I don't see how either the first uploaded images or the "accepted" versions could be any more likely to be better than the other. If we have the edit war category, we can keep track of all the edit wars and make sure they get resolved, making everyone happy. 21:21, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Think of it this way. First Image A is uploaded, then it's replaced by Image B. Nobody complains about the change, so we keep it. It stays like this for a lengthy time, let's say a month. Somebody suddenly sees this replacement, and would rather have Image A again. Since Image B was already the accepted version, shouldn't it be used over Image A until a decision has been made?

Then again, I suppose it being on Image A is also fair because it was the accepted version before Image B. Actually, after thinking about it, I'm not sure which is better...good thing I opened this forum then. 21:33, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

The way see it, this situation is just as, if not more likely: Image B is uploaded to replace image A, but this happens over the weekend or at a time when someone else is mass uploading images (say for jpg replacement or something). So anyone who would object to Image B doesn't realize that it's been uploaded until a month later, when they object and an edit war starts. To me, the fact that it was up for a month doesn't at all mean that it's "accepted". I believe it's the burden of the uploader of Image B to prove that it's better than Image A, since they uploaded to replace Image A. In my mind, Image A should be the version used during the war. 00:24, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Hadn't noticed this forum and I don't have time to read the whole discussion but here's what I believe is better. We should use the original vesrion of the edit war, which is the version that was in use before the edit war. That makes things very simpler. But if the two versions of the edit war are both new images, we should use the version used before those two images were uploaded. If there is no previous version, which is very rare, we use the first version uploaded until the talk page decides. The rule about the first version uploaded is really dumb because, usually, that version is the worst. 19:47, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Also yeah, we should make a category about the images with edit war (surprised we haven't made one yet). It will make things very easier. 07:56, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with SHL and disagree with JSD (but he knew already). If the edit war is between a previously accepted pic and a new one, then both rules have the same result: no problem here. The problem is when both pics in the edit war are new ones. Then clearly, the best solution to chill things out is to use the most neutral pic, that is, the one that was in place before the war. It is not complicated to explain, nor to apply: Granted, using the first uploaded in all cases (as JSD wants) is even simpler, but it's less fair—and when dealing with edit wars, I do believe fairness is important.
 * 1) the default pic is the one that was there before the edit war.
 * 2) if there wasn't any, then the default pic is the first uploaded.

I agree with JSD. One simple rule is good. 12:11, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. Also, I forgot to post here, but I made Category:Disputed Images to go with the template. 03:17, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Sff9. While a simple rule is well, simple, it doesn't quite seem that fair. The image before the war should be the default because otherwise, if the image is fought between it and an image long before it was replaced, it's almost as if the older image won. That's not so fair. I explained this horribly. I'm still sticking with the less simple but more fair rule. 01:39, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Even though this issue is one of the most important problems of this wiki nowdays, everyone keeps ignoring the forum. 23:17, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think that the image wars had began to decline. However, recently, they've began to increase again. 05:21, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

This forum isn't resolved yet.. 11:12, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Well, to throw in my two cents, I have to say that I agree with Sff in this case. WU out - 14:20, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I'm gonna bump and also reiterate one of my points earlier that nobody responded to: I think it should be the burden of the person who uploads a new image to prove that theirs is better than the old version, so the first uploaded version should be left up. If an older image was good enough, and people dispute a new version, it just seems more likely that the old image is better. Plus, if a new version is uploaded, the uploader is a lot more likely to be still editing and can be expected to take all the right actions to make sure the dispute is resolved through proper channels. 13:13, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. 13:09, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the July 18th comment. 18:13, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Staw-Hat Luffy and sff9's proposals above. MasterDeva (talk) 09:41, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Agree with JSD's comment above. 13:31, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'd poll it, but I feel we need a time limit that something can be "previously accepted" for. How's a month sound? 19:47, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. 16:26, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, here's a test poll. 00:26, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nobody complained in more than 24 hours, I'm opening the poll. 13:12, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Post-Poll Discussion
Alright, now that the poll is done, does anyone want to change the time for when something is "accepted". Personally, I like one month best (that's what I proposed on the poll after all). I think that the absolute smallest amount of time we should even consider is 1 week. Anything shorter than that and people can get away with some unnoticed shenanigans. But again, what I personally think is best is 1 month. 17:13, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with a month, I also like that better but I think the minimum should be 2 weeks for the simple reason that 1 week just doesn't seem long enough. 17:16, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

One month is fine. 17:17, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Poll was voted on for a month, so it's a month. 17:29, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I don't agree the time should have been finalized in the first poll. Personally, I think it'd be best if when the discussion has surely closed, that's when it's seen as "accepted". Then again, that's a bit debatable. I guess I can live with a month, but maybe that seems a LITTLE long. Two weeks, maybe? 23:03, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Willing to just go with a month now, Nada? This forum's pretty inactive and not going anywhere. We'd be well-served to close it. 03:52, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

If nobody would like to add something, I'll close this forum. 19:05, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead. 03:57, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

I have some rule suggestions to add, I don't really see the point for a fixed time for an image to be default. If we have two images, and they are both disputed on, shouldn't the one that has been active for the longest time be the default?

"An image that has lost in a poll can never be used again unless a discussion is opened where the image in question is once again accepted to be used."

"During an image dispute the image that was active for the longest time will be the one displayed. If that image then loses, it will be replaced with its conqueror."

(@Sewil, I moved your paragraph to this section to make the forum easier to read. Hope you don't mind.)

That's exactly what the poll was about, and those were both decided against. We went with the month. 21:37, November 12, 2013 (UTC)