Forum:Can luffy go up against an admiral or smoker now.

Would be better if u used a blog 19:36, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know, because he hasn't fought them yet. That's about all you can say. 19:37, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

An Admiral and Smoker are not the same, I think he can tie/barely beat Smoker but would lose against an Admiral. 19:58, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

You're forgetting that Oda likes to let his characters exceed expectations. I think that Luffy's on par with a young Gold Rodger now that he has decent Haki control. He still has a lot of growing left to do, but I'm betting that Smoker doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating him. Regular admirals and weak shichibuka may give him a challenge later in the series, but only the toughest guys in the storyline are capable of beating him now.

Well you have to remember that Smoker also as a recurring opponent is getting stronger, he is supposedly the Garp counter part. And what do you mean by, "Regular admirals and weak shichibuka"? 23:10, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

If "weak shichibukai" can give him a problem, then who were Moriah and Crocodile? Super-weak Shichibukai? 01:26, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

I think it really depends on who specifically he's up against. I don't think you can simply say "he can beat an admiral" because even within the Admirals, there's such a huge difference in power. I personally think that Luffy could probably just barely beat Aokoji now (or in the near future), and he could fight but not beat Kizaru, and has no chance of beating Akainu. One thing I've realized is that Luffy has yet to have one of those fights that last many days that other people in the series have had. I would guess that when it comes time to fight one of these super-powerful characters from the first half, he'll have one.

With Smoker, the situation in my mind is more interesting. Smoker is one of few enemy characters that's shown to be improving throughout the series. Most enemies we see always seem to be content with their current capabilities and always trust that they can beat whoever comes along. Most recurring enemies don't seem to be doing this. Early on Smoker was far more powerful than Luffy. But now that Luffy can hit him, I think that Luffy could beat him in a tough fight. However; because both characters are always improving, I think as the series goes on, they will fight many times, and it will always be a tough fight. There will never really be a time where Luffy is on a whole different level than Smoker. (except for the end of the series, maybe)

And you can never say that Luffy is "on par with a young Gold Roger" because Luffy is probably always on par with a young Roger. If the two characters are really supposed to be as similiar as Oda leads us to believe, then Roger probably nearly died just as many times as Luffy has (and will continue to do) throughout his journey. Roger wasn't always the most powerful pirate on the sea, it's just because Roger was successful in his journey that he became known as that. JustSomeGuy... 02:37, March 13, 2012 (UTC) (my old sig. seems to have disapeared, so this is a new one)

I mostly agree except for the huge power gap between Admirals thingy, Akainu is not much stronger than Aokiji, in fact I think if you put against a random opponent they are about equal. Which was proven when their fight lasted ten days with both sides suffering serious injuries. In my opinion, Akainu only managed to win because his devil fruit has an edge over Aokiji's. Similarly Kizaru in my scaling is about equal to the other two and as of now they are still way ahead of Luffy in power. If Luffy beats one of them now it would be solely owing to plot armor. 03:27, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Throughout the whole series, Luffy has been compared to Rodger. He has the same carefree attitude. He visits the same places. He runs into people associated with Rodger. He has the "D". Powerful people like Shanks, Silvers, and Jinbe can sense his potential and help him, even at great personal cost. Therefore, he is like a "young Rodger". I stand by that. I also re-iterate that he has more growing to do or the series would be boring. That being said, logia types, as Pekoms has demonstrated, are not used to fighting people with a lot of haki. I think Luffy can mop the floor with Smoker and weak shichibukai that he has already beaten like Moriah, Crocodile, and (a guess here) Buggy. He's not on par with Kizaru, Aokiji, or Akainu yet. Admirals of lesser rank would likely give him a good workout though.


 * Admirals of lesser rank? What do you mean? The Vice Admirals / Rear Admirals? If that is the case, I agree, Luffy can easily beat a normal Rear Admiral and probably beat almost all Vice Admirals.

Also incase of the known current and former Shichibukai, he has already beated Moriah and Crocodile and I think if he fight them again he can easily beat Moriah now (considering Moraih did not improve, well might be dead too). As for Crocodile, it would not be easy but it would not be as tough as it was before as he can now hurt Crocodile even without moisting him and with much greater destructive power. I think he can also beat Jinbe and Hancock in a battle (although he would probably never have to). As for Kuma, it's a tough one cause if Kuma can use his devil fruit properly, it is uncertain as to who will win but if he is indeed totally mindless then it won't take more than a few seconds for Luffy to make short work of him now (cause Luffy did take out a Pacifista with only one hit). I think Luffy can beat Law too, although we did not see much about what Law can actually do, but, before the time skip he did struggle agains a Pacifista even after his entire crew and the Kid pirates helping them. Sure he must have improved but unlike him Luffy spent all the time only in training and must have gained a higher level of strength, I think Law would not pose more a problem for him (Luffy) in one on one battle than Jinbe would, which means that Luffy would have some difficulty would not need push himself too far to win the bout. However in case of Doflamingo or Mihawk, I don't think Luffy can match them yet, he might be able to put up a fight but those two will still beat him without much trouble. Same goes for Teach, (as he is a former Shichibukai I am taking him into account too) in fact, in my opinion, if the two fights right now, I think teach won't even have to try to mop the floor with Luffy.

Now don't go putting Smoker in the same level as Caribou, Pekoms only said that Logia who believe they are invincible have short life span. However Smoker is not so naive, he is a Vice Admiral now, that means he must also have learnt haki. Besides his base endurance is pretty high too, he got kicked by Hancock and did not show any damage (note Hancock broke Pacifista armor which is harder than steel with her kicks). Also as Smoker is a recurring enemy who is somewhat of a reminiscent of Garp to Roger, he won't go down easily. I think if the two fights now, it would end up in a tie. As for the old Admiral trio, they can still beat Luffy hands down, just as easily Teach can (Akainu can probably do it even faster). Luffy still has a long way to go before he can beat them (however he might be able to do it sooner because of plot armor, like the time when he deafed Crocodile even being nowhere near the former Shichibukai's level). Well that is what my thoughs are. 00:32, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

With the Shichibukai, I agree that he could still beat Moria and Crocodile. (he'd have much easier time with Moria than Crodile though, provided Moria didn't have another Oars on hand) And I agree that he probably couldn't beat Doflamingo. (that random dismemberment that he can do is some scary stuff.) And he probably couldn't beat Mihawk, though I doubt that they would ever fight again, as that's Zoro's fight. Jinbe and Hancock, he's probably never going to fight, so I'm not gonna waste my time thinking about that. Unless Buggy has somehow become MUCH stronger after the timeskip, that's an easy win for Luffy. The only ones I can't figure out are Kuma and Law. While Luffy can break a Pacifista pretty easily, I'm sure Kuma is made of stronger stuff than a regular Pacifista. And I'm confident that after the heavy damage he recieved protecting the Sunny, that Vegapunk would take the time to upgrade Kuma further. That being said, I don't think Kuma's all that tough when it comes down to his physical capabilites. What makes him a wildcard is his devil fruit. If Kuma gets one hit in with his paw, Luffy is on his way back to the East Blue before he can do anything. And his ability to transfer pain would cause serious damage too. Especially if Kuma can transfer the pain that Luffy inflicts on Kuma back to Luffy. As far as Law, I just don't know enough his abilities (even pre-timeskip) to say either way. I also can't even figure out who Luffy's even going to fight in the Punk Hazard arc. The possible main villans could be Smoker, Law, or that Logia user who is the boss. I could see Luffy fighting at most two of those people, but I doubt he would end up fighting all 3.

As far as my thing on the power gap in the old Admirals, I still think Aokoji is still the weakest. It all comes down to their devil fruits, and not so much Haki and other stuff. When it comes down to it, Ice is solid. And solid things are way easier for Luffy (or anyone else) to stop than anything else. Luffy can break solid, and Aokoji's body isn't inherently harmful to anyone who touches it for a punch, unlike the magma body of Akainu. Akainu's body is only semi-solid, and it's going to hurt to hit him, even with Haki. And there's plenty of things he do with his powers besides regular combat that could give him a serious advanage over anyone, like melting himself into the ground or stuff like that. Kizaru is interesting in that his body isn't harmful or anything, it's just that if you to hit him normally, there'd be nothing to hit. (It would appear from what we've seen of him that his light is only harmful when focused down into lasers or something) And while with Haki, Luffy could hit him, Kizaru's real power comes from the fact that he's fast. Probably the fastest character in the series, and unless Oda decides Luffy can break the speed of light (something that science currently believes is pretty much impossible), Luffy would be in serious trouble against him. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of stuff Kizaru could do outside of attacking to get the advanage over anyone, let alone a concevable way to defeat him. If Akainu is stronger than Kizaru, the only things that would make him stronger would be having way more powerful Haki, and just his general ruthlessness. That and the fact that it makes more sense for Luffy to fight Akainu after Kizaru story-wise.

I think the reason the Aokoji vs. Akainu fight lasted so long is because their DF powers dulled each other's attacks. I don't think Akainu had a perfect advantage over Aokoji. Yes, the magma would melt the ice, but the ice would also cool the magma, taking the bite out of it, turning it into just rock. If Aokoji were going up against Ace's regular fire, he'd be in serious trouble, because his ice couldn't stop the fire. But magma is a very different beast than fire. Ice vs magma is very tough fight because the overall damage that both could do would be signifcantly lower than against anyone else. In the end, the magma would probably win out, (just like Akainu did) but it would be a long, tough fight.

If we're going to talk about people like Vice-Admirals too, then I would like to propose the idea of Luffy vs Magellan again. I think most people would agree with me when I say that Luffy did not "defeat Magellan" so much as "survive Magellan" when they last fought. Because of this, I suspect that they will fight again in the future, though I can't forsee a reason for Luffy to go back to Impel Down. Perhaps Magellan is a regular Marine officer now? Anyway, besides the plot issues with them fighting again, I can't figure out who would win. Keep in mind that Magellan's DF is Paramicia, not Logia, so Luffy can't just use his Haki to hurt him, he still has to punch through Magellan's poison armor to hit him. And yes, Luffy has gained an immunity to (at least) some poisons, but I doubt that would be effective against the cocktail of poisons that Magellan can control. I personally can't figure out who would win this, so I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say. JustSomeGuy... 02:37, March 13, 2012 (UTC)