Talk:Seven Warlords of the Sea

Former section termination?
Should I terminate the "former Shichibukai" section? And mayby the "Replacement" section where we can have one simple section? Any thoughts?

(Joekido 02:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC))


 * Personnely, I would prefer "Dismissed Members" rather then Former... But if one quits on his own accords that would be the wrong word to use. I say leave it alone for now Joekido.  It seems fine to me right now.  One-Winged Hawk 08:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll leave it that way. It's not my wikia anyway.

(Joekido 09:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC))

Last edit
I have deleted this paragraph:


 * "How a member is chosen to become a memeber is unknown, although a pirates bounty is apparently not huge factor in the choosing as the bounty range with the memebers is huge, ranging from no bounty at all to the highest yet displayed in the series. Also losing a fight with another pirate is not cause for a memeber to lose there position, both Moria and Crocodile lost to Luffy, yet Moria is allowed to keep is position in order to keep the world balance, Crocodile lost his position do his attempted Coup d'état of Alabasta and threating the balance."

It has been already shown how a member is chosen, both during Marejois reunin or recent events about Blackbeard. In Sengoku (or some marine, it was not clear) words "must sacry another pirates". And even, if a pirate must be feared, either the bounty ammount or losing a fight are influences.

Ilovefoxes 00:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that was text left over from wikipedia days. Sorry for the slow reply... I guess though we're still finding the wikipedia problems even now though.  --One-Winged Hawk 09:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Revamping the page again
Trying to make this page flow better.

Opinions? :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 09:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

New and final Shichibukai member? Or is it too early yet?
I think we should list the new and last Shichubukai member I don't think that having one day is all that long considering that it's on the eve of the chapter revealing it.


 * Resist the temptation me friend.


 * It should be out within the next 12 hours! ;-) --One-Winged Hawk 05:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Fix Boas picture
Please fix the Boa Hancock picture in the Shichibukai picture roster at the bottom. It looks terrible and it needs to be fixed right away.


 * ~Daniel

Not all members have crossed the straw hat crew yet
Jinbei hasn't and doesn't even know about them. And when did Doflamingo ever meet a crew member from that crew? I don't remember him ever seeing any of them. So Doflamingo and Jinbei haven't yet. That needs to be changed.


 * ~Daniel


 * That's why I said "or indirectly", they doesn't really meet each other, but their actions does influence Straw Hats (Jimbei leaving his crew and meeting Doflamingo captain under command Bellamy).


 * ~Ilovefoxes


 * It doesn't matter, the history bit was meant to be written differenty... IT kinda got written wrong. I've corrected it now but it needs references on it.  --One-Winged Hawk 16:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Yosaku's Depiction
Do we really need to keep that picture of the Shichibukai from when Yosaku introduced them? We've learnt by now that isn't what they look like. I know there isn't a picture showing all seven at once but it just seems pointless.203.206.245.123 06:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Its the best + most fitting image we have of them that desrcibes the portrayal of them in the OP world, and besides you said it yourself there isn't another picture of the seven. One-Winged Hawk 09:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Well,we have an image of FIVE --New Babylon 07:02, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Trivia removasls
Okay:removed the "enourmous" stature (Crocodile seems fairly normal,plus Hancock and Mihawk dont exactely cut it.It's not exactely so that people cant see it for themselves anyway) bit and "asuming Doflamingo has" (asumptions-we could do the same for Miss Goldenweek before we got an explanation) ,as well as modified the "devil fruit" number part to be more..... comprehensive. --New Babylon 07:02, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Moria's theme
please stop putting his theme is a bat, other than the one attack name nothing else says that his theme could be bat, it just called that to go with the horror theme of thriller bark--Swg66 00:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There are a couple of things that point towards Moria's theme being bat. First of all his Brick Bat technique as mentioned, second his collar is reminiscent of bat wings, his teeth are long and pointed (something wich is uncommon in One Piece) just like Vampire Bats, whereas Gecko teeth are so small you can hardly see them. His overal appearance is a nod towards vampires who are associated with Bats. I have just mentioned a couple of things to strenghten my arguement that his theme is bat. What I'd like to hear is what proves his theme is Gecko. His name isn't really a strong arguement as it could point as easily to "Gekkou" wich as stated in the article means moonlight. --Caraccidential


 * The main discussion about Moria's theme is in here. That being said, its not just his name. His Shadow Asgard form looks very reptilian. His neck is more reptilian than mammal. His collar also looks more like a lizard frill than bat wings.Mugiwara Franky 11:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Well it's one thing saying it because of his name but we already went over it before. His Shadow Asgard does not look reptilian AT ALL. Even Stevie Wonder could see that. Drunk Samurai 17:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In response to the name issue: The Gekkou/Moonlight thing is probably just a bit of added punning by Oda. He's always doing that kind of thing.  Plus, every Warlod's animal the is in their name except Blackbeard.  Mihawk, Doflamingo, Kuma, Crocodile, Boa Hancock, Jimbei.  So unless "Moria" refers to some kind of animal then, regardless of how reptilian or not he looks, odds are the gecko is the intended theme.  For all we know, it could be nothing more than Oda thought of Gecko first, and horror-themes later.--Sgamer82 23:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Seven deadly sins
Boa Hancock = Lust Jimbei = Gluttony Cocodrile = Greed Moria = Sloth Tyrant, Kuma = Wrath Donquixote = Envy Mihawk = Pride --Thenewjericho 00:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah been noted and sho down before. How can Jimbei be greed when aside from his largeness, he has't done much except talk and be punished. One-Winged Hawk 01:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

It might just be coincidence that some of those fit. There's no other evidence to point to any correlation between Shichibukai and the more western concept of the seven deadly sins, and Donquixote being Envy and Mihawk being pride seem more to be opinion than to be based off of truth. Sephirona 01:42, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

No. Just no. Why do idiots always come up with something stupid and try to pass it off as fact? Drunk Samurai

Well, to Oone-winged, LOL and Jimbei is kind of overweight, in one piece there's no coincidences, but maybe you're right Sephirona, Donquixote..I can't tell that because is just speculation, but mihawk fit well in pride.--Thenewjericho 06:32, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, some sins fits pretty well, but it is a Primary source (see here). It was in the Wikipedia entry on Shichibukai but was removed due to this fact. Greetings 08:05, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Jinbei's Shichibukai Status
Should we put Jinbei's status as Shichibukai as "former" or something alike? He has now officially forfeited his position, Impel Down guards tried to kill him, and the Marines tried to sink him while he helped three other prisoners to board a ship. Yatanogarasu 17:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant that since Jinbei has now refused to fight Whitebeard and forfeited his Shichibukai position, he is now an enemy to the World Government, and as he opposed the Marines, they retaliate. Therefore, should we classify Jinbei as a "former" Shichibukai, as he is no longer their ally? Also, is the message below meant to be a response for my request? Because I can't seem to connect it to my question. Yatanogarasu 23:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I didn't put my question in its own topic properly, but it was fixed. What I think about Jinbei's Shichibukai status is, though he has now openly rebelled against Impel Down and said he would throw away his title, the removal of his title has not ben official yet. When Jinbei and Crocodile were released, Inazuma said only one was a former Shichibukai (Crocodile) and even the Impel Down Guards on Level 4 called Jinbei a Shichibukai instead of a former Shichibukai like they did with Crocodile. That's just what I think, though. NANLIT 14:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * His position hasn't yet been officially renounced by a higher authority. A Shichibukai battling against Marines or any similar persons doesn't necessarily instantly mean that their position is forfeited. Take Moria, a good number of his victims were Marines however his position was not forfeited despite the number of eyewitness. In fact, Jinbei had already defied the WG before Impel Down when the war was first announced and his position wasn't officially forfeited then. In any case, Jinbei is still referred in the manga as still being officially a part of the Shichibukai. His membership is just not revoked yet.Mugiwara Franky 15:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

As of the latest chapter, Jimbei's pretty much assuming they've stripped him of his title by this point.--Sgamer82 22:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

"They are only allowed to attack other pirates."?
Are you sure about this? I mean to me, it seems like the Shichibukai can attack Marines as well. Crocodile tried to kill Smoker and there was no indication that that could cause him to lose his title, a Marine was shown to have had his shadow stolen by Moria, and Hancock petrified Momonga's men and Momonga made no indication that her title was in danger because of that. Not to mention that Kuma said that the Shichibukai do not have to cooperate with the Marines if the World Government is not involved. Like I said earlier, there does not seem to be any indication that the Shichibukai are forbidden to attack Marines. So should the wording there be changed? NANLIT 05:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems that as long as it's easy to cover up, they can do just about anything. The only reason Crocodile was banned was because his coup in Arabasta couldn't be. Losing a member would upset the balance of the 3 Powers, so the government would do anything to prevent it, even deception. Kaizoku-Hime 06:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Crocodile and Hancock aren't really good examples for this. At the time, neither Hancock nor Crocodile cared about their title.  Crocodile was less than a day or so away from fulfilling his Ultimate Plan by which point he would have lost his title no matter what happened.  Hancock was a spoiled brat who acted without being concerned for the consequences.  Plus in Hancock's case the situation was dire enough that they would have forgiven anything short of outright betrayal (Like Jimbei and Blackbeard).  Hancock's barely-a-whim attack hardly constitutes betrayal, even if it is technically treason.  Also, while Kuma's statement that Warlords need not cooperate with the Marines may be true, note he never actually attacked Kizaru or Sentomaru himself.  In fact, far as anybody present at the time knew, Kuma was aiding them. --Sgamer82 22:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Blackbeard
Blackbeard was under the command of the 4th division commander of the Whitebeard pirates (Thatch). Not the second division (Ace)


 * Here, here, and here are a few instances where Blackbeard is pointed out to be under Ace.Mugiwara Franky 15:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Size Issue

 * "Of the seven human Shichibukai, four are of normal size (if not roughly): Doflamingo, Hancock, Mihawk, and Crocodile."

There's a slight problem with the above statement. This is what I gather...
 * Average: Mihawk & Hancock
 * In-Between: Crocodile, Doflamingo, Blackbeard,
 * Giantism: Kuma & Moria

...Some people are fighting over whether or not Doflamingo should be in there. From the 524 war-meeting and the 532 color-spread, I'd say he and Blackbeard are about the same size (probably taller if he wasn't bow-legged), but no one's adding Teach. To avoid any edit wars, should we just say that "two are of abnormal size: Moria and Kuma."?
 * Kaizoku-Hime 21:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Careful with the use of 'Giants' as thats not what hether of those two are. They are indeed large sized thugh.  I'd go for leaving the size issue off trhe page. One-Winged Hawk 22:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

About Gecko Moria being a non-human Shichibukai.
I saw that a person undid the Trivia fact about Jinbei being a non-human Shichibukai and it honestly made me wonder if Moria is a non-human Shichibukai as well? I know this not a forum and I respect that, I was just wondering if anyone knows if Moria is a non-human Shichibukai based on actual fact or proof. The only reason I bring this up is because I saw his picture (Gecko Moria) and it really looks as if he is not a "normal" human, but I'm not saying he is though. Thoughts and opinions are welcomed. Thanks JonTheMan 04:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Not a forum. On that note, while Moria may look like he maybe of another race, there has been nothing so far that says he's not human. He's just one of those guys that look weird like Kaku, Yama, Wanze, Iva, and everybody else that Oda's given a weird design.Mugiwara Franky 12:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think what's throwing him off most are the horns . --New Babylon 17:26, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with New Babylon. Kaku, Yama, Wanze and Iva looks like humans - just very exaggerated humans. All of their physical traits and body parts are the same as real-life humans, and if these traits just were toned much down, they would look nearly as normal as Law, Hancock and such persons. It's possible that Moria's pointed ears and teeth and size is just exaggerated parts as well, but how do you explain his horns? No humans has horns and Moria's unlike Hannyabal whose horns is just an exaggerated brow ridge. 89.249.0.170 19:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He's probably just someone like Absalom and the cyborgs (Kuma and Franky): humans with modified body parts. Until it's stated otherwise, he'll be classified as 'human'.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 19:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Former Shichibukai
Look at this link at the bonus moment [http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51956. We need to put some info that there was a schichbukai that got accepted 3 years ago. --138.88.38.228 19:04, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We know there was an opening but nothing else. Lets wait this one out a little while I guess. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 20:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Shichibukai introduction chapter
My paragraph on that subject has been deleted, may I know the reason ? I found that usefull, since I often make that kind of research and it seems the correct article to put it.

Trivia too much
Can we knock out 50% of the trivia here? Its getting silly long. One-Winged Hawk 13:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, the section is a bit much, especially for 'trivial' information. We should probably just keep the ones that concern more than one member. Ones that only deal with a single individual (such as Jinbei being the only non-human and Mihawk being the only one with an unknown bounty) should be kept to the said individual's article.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 19:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The Impel Down ones can also be removed; moved to the Impel Down page. At this rate, the trivia will be longer then the rest of the page if we don't hault this madness. One-Winged Hawk 16:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Combined Former Bounties
Now that Jinbei has officially become a former Shichibuki, shouldn't the combined former bounties of the Shichibukai be changed from at least 1,286,000,000 to at least 1,036,000,000? 205.152.94.130 18:03, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Main Ship: None
Is there any purpose to have that in the main box? NANLIT 19:46, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not really. In fact, the infobox is more suited for a pirate crew than a group of pirates.Mugiwara Franky 06:58, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Warlords replacing Shichibukai
Is it correct the change for Warlords? I mean their title is Shichibukai... I was about to revert but I had to ask. Greetings! --Omartron 16:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC) 05:22, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Reverted. Incidentally, the missing images on the "Warlord" version are now available again!--Omartron 16:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC) 05:25, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

It was some douchebag vandal who changed everything. Warlord is never correct. Drunk Samurai 07:53, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not ness a vandal, there are some who simply love the dub disregarding the Japanese useage and/or don't read rules. One-Winged Hawk 08:43, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Ok then, it was a good idea revert those editions... By the way, I fixed the link on my sig, that's why you see two dates when you read my posts. --Omartron 16:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

They will always be a vandal to me for using English terms for no reason. Reminds me of the Naruto wikia which is absolute crap. Drunk Samurai 16:51, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Everyone, quick, get the crosses and torch lights out, DS said the "N" word!


 * (don't take this seriously, 3 weeks of illness and being stuck at home has gotten to me...) One-Winged Hawk 20:15, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Shichibukai numbers

 * 1) Mihawk - title still standing
 * 2) Jinbei - defected to Whitebeard and Luffy, personally quit his title
 * 3) Crocodile - title officially revoked via Tashigi
 * 4) Doflamingo - title still standing
 * 5) Kuma - title still standing
 * 6) Moria - title still standing
 * 7) Hancock - protected Luffy, title not officially revoked yet
 * 8) Teach - invaded Impel Down, title not officially revoked yet as WG is busy

Basic listing of Shichibukai status due to edit war by Buh and other editor. Jinbei personally stated his resignation to Sengoku. Hancock protected Luffy however her status has not been officially been revoked. It may not be revoked depending on how the rest of the arc will play out. Teach's status for sure is in jeopardy, however like Hancock has not yet been officially revoked.Mugiwara Franky 11:44, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no disagreements with this, this seems all logical to me anyway. Their not offically sacked until they or the gov. say they are.  This sort of dispute has happened "sort of" once with Moria and look, there he is still a Shichibukai. One-Winged Hawk 11:52, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Just because they haven't had their title revoked doesn't mean that they aren't defecting. In the cases of Crocodile and Moria, their actions that caused (or almost caused in Moria's case) revocation of their title was being defeated, not willingly turning against the World Government. In the cases of Jinbei, Blackbeard, and Hancock, though, while their titles may not have been revoked as of yet, they have most definitely defected from the Shichibukai. Whether they keep their title is yet to be seen, but that doesn't change the fact that they made the conscious decision to turn against the Shichibukai. Buh6173 04:43, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * We had a simulair argument with Franky joining and Usopp rejoining the SH crew. Listen, until it happens, it shouldn't be on the page. For two weeks prior their joining we had edit wars over people putting them back in.  Until it happens, its incorrect.  This is all I'm going to say further on the matter. One-Winged Hawk 08:10, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with having no statement that they have left the Shichibukai. However, like I said, even if they haven't left the Shichibukai, the fact stands that they defected. Buh6173 13:13, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no argument that some of them have indeed been doing actions that merit defection. However, in this time of epic war, anything can happen. From what I've been seeing in some places, affiliations go ring around with the characters. In any case, only two Shichibukai are in trouble of being called defectors. Jinbei, who has outright stated it, and Teach, who we have no idea of his master plans.Mugiwara Franky 15:23, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Just stop it, your the only one who wants this way, jinbei and crocdile are the only ones who have lost there titil. Hancock and Blackbeard have't lost there titles, None of them re really Loyal to begin with Moria and Hancock attacked a bunch of marines and they weren't considered traitors, your just jumping the gun don't put that there no longer memebers until it's offically confirmed--Swg66 21:24, October 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * First of all, Swg66, you're making yourself look like an idiot. But that's aside the point. Making marines attack each other and joining the opposing force of the marines are two completely different things. Now if it was just Hancock attacking some marines, that'd be one thing, but she has stated outright that she will not let anyone hurt Luffy and that she'll protect him. Defecting just means taking action against the World Government and refusing to live up to their title of Shichibukai, which entails what Teach and Hancock have done. It has yet to be seen if they will get their titles revoked, but they defected, that's that, so stop reverting it. Buh6173 05:52, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Look, I've been watching this page getting changed again and again. We have to settle this once and for all. Do we have to start locking this page due to editing war or ban users for stubbornness? No offense meant, by the way. Yatanogarasu 23:06, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * First, Hancock may have declared her love for Luffy, but the WG did NOT officially revoked her position, nor did she officially resign.
 * Blackbeard also did not resign (Lafitte even mentioned that Blackbeard finally got his desired position in Chapter 544 page 3, so it is highly unlikely he would consider, let alone officially, resigned). The WG also did not officially revoke him.
 * Until it is official (e.g., Smoker says Hancock is out of the group, like Tashigi did with Crocodile), PLEASE don't say they are FORMER members or that they defected or whatnot. I mean, Jinbei was not recorded to be revoked nor resigned until he made his official announcement to Sengoku.
 * Notice the official. If it is not official, we shouldn't say so!
 * Oh, by the way, Buh6173, you shouldn't call Swg66 an idiot in the comment above.

How do i look like the idiot here? on the point at hand to defect means "to abandon a position or association, often to join an opposing group" sense they haven't actully abandoned there position as shichibukai they haven't even defected--Swg66 06:23, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I wasn't the one who called you the idiot; Buh6173 did. But glad to see you support the fact that Hancock and Blackbeard are not FORMER members. Yatanogarasu 23:37, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

I know it was ment to be addressed at Buh6173, sorry for the confusion--Swg66 06:45, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Okay this is crazy, Buh, don't call others idiot. You can playfully get away with "silly" so long as its not in a hurtful context, but insulting someone goes against the rules. Please can we at least show respect for our fellow editors no matter what our differences of opinions are. One-Winged Hawk 07:46, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, can we end the edit war TODAY and not have one FOR A WEEK. In your efforts to get one over each other regarding this, you failed to notice the categories got deleted. When the page suffers more then just a cycle of edit and undo, then its gone too far! One-Winged Hawk 08:04, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

The terms revocation and defection here are seriously being confused depending on the interpretation.


 * Revocation: This refers to the Shichibukai title. Depending on the situation, the title of a Shichibukai can be officially revoked or not. For Crocodile, his title was revoked because he was causing a major war in a country. For Jinbei, his title was revoked personally by himself. Revocation in this sense, depends on the actions the Shichibukai do. The problem is the degree of the action and how it is viewed. Hancock and Moria have been beating on Marines way long before the war even began. Their stoning and shadow stealing are pretty much just as sever as Croc's and Jinbei's, yet they kept their status then. That being said, Hancock's and Teach's actions are definite candidates for revocation, however no one so far has yet taken away their titles.


 * Defection: This refers to the Shichibukai affiliation. Depending on the situation, the actions a Shichibukai does can be seen as defection or not. For Jinbei, he outright stated his defection. For the others, its a bit harder depending on how the WG and the Marines see their actions. Teach for sure is defecting while Hancock technically unofficially defected the moment the love bug hit her. The problem is that defection based on current events can be viewed as a heinous crime to the WG. Technically defecting in this case would mean your instantly revoking your title. Its unofficial but its still revoking.

Based on current events, its probably best to just simply state whether a Shichibukai has a title or not. Switching sides and defection apparently can be heavily misinterpreted here.Mugiwara Franky 08:23, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Not once was the page ever edited to say "Hancock and Blackbeard lost their titles"; it just says that they defected from the Shichibukai. Will they get to keep their titles? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact stands that, at the moment, they are not currently loyal to the World Government. Like I stated above, there's a huge difference between stoning some Marines and reviving them later (mind you that, had she not come with Momonga and revived them, she was bound to get her position revoked) and stealing Marine shadows to fight pirates, and joining the opposing side and fighting against the Marines. I'm not saying that the page should say "they have lost their titles", but it should say that they have defected from the Shichibukai, which they have. Buh6173 14:15, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem however is that the term "defecting" can be misinterpreted here as being synonymous with "revocation" depending on how one views it.Mugiwara Franky 14:48, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

The only one who's really observed Hancock's traitorous actions so far is Smoker, plus if she's enough use elsewhere in the battle they might overlook it, so I could even see her retaining her title fairly easily despite her 'defection'. It's not that she turned against the government, it's that she's protecting one and only one pirate.

Going by the official WG call is the only way to go. ZeroSD 12:46, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Buh6173 go by your interpretaion of defection then Hancock and Blackbeard are still shichibukai, then why do you keep putting it n the picture capation that there no longer in the group? saying that was the group before there defection, from what you say there still in the group so that's inaccurate to your point of view--Swg66 18:10, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Here is the definintion of defction " conscious abandonment of allegiance or duty (ax. to a person, cause, or doctrine) : desertion"--Swg66 18:57, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, best to leave out whether they defected or not due to edit war being caused by it. Swg's definition is technically correct going by grammar common sense.Mugiwara Franky 03:06, October 7, 2009 (UTC)