Talk:Ope Ope no Mi

Name
So since this is the ability of a popular character, this page is sure to grow very fast.

I've looked into the name of the ability, and unless there are other ways of using the kanji, the "ope ope" comes from the kanji from "operation". The japanese name would be オペオペの実. This is confirmed when looking at the raw panel where Smoker names Law's devil fruit. So the long name of the fruit is the "operation operation" fruit. I wonder how Viz is gonna name it. WhiteSnake357 13:31, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ope Ope no Mi's First Apperance - Chapter 505, Episode 398 (Hcw88 15:48, March 21, 2012 (UTC))

Interesting indeed. So this fruit allows the user to completely manipulate reality within their radius of influence. Incredible!74.99.77.194 16:33, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
I must ask how is this fruit pronounced? Is it OPE as in ANTELOPE or "oh-pee" (yea those words are weird but how else am I supposed to write it >.>)? I have to say this page has sky-rocketed in less than a day though =P PhoenixRising101 11:44, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was oh-pay, but this isn't really that big of a deal. There are a lot of different pronunciations for words. 12:42, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

It's close to "oh-pay". Actually it's the same "é" as in "Pokémon"—though I don't know whether English speakers pronounce Pokémon correctly…

Since it's japanese, and they don't pronounce "E" like you crazy americans, it's pronounced Oh-Peh. You know, like Vader's breath? Ope. Not Oap, not O-pay, not O-pi.Ruffy 13:12, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

And, no. English speakers do not pronounce Pokémon correctly. It's pronounced Pock-eh-mon. Not Poke-a-mon.Ruffy 13:12, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Sff9 and PX are right. Think of what Smoker said, his power is like an operating room. Operating, now just apply a Japanese accent. 13:35, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

No its definatly Oh-Peh, if you say it like you say operating room. 13:50, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Does it really matter? 13:54, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

No, but it's nice to be helpful. 13:57, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

uhm we will eventually hear how to pronounce it in the anime won't we. (OnePieceNation 19:13, March 22, 2012 (UTC))

Well, yeah, but it's going to be a while. The anime is still only up to the Otohime/Tiger flashback, so there's a ways to go. Not to mention that's only if they don't include filler. It is way too far off in the anime to bank on it now. 15:34, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Do the powers work on Logia type users
He dislodged Smoker's heart, while Smoker was fighting Law in his smoke form. So it could be possible that the fruit's powers work on Logia type users.121.74.174.246 09:00, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

no he was obviously using haki to do that. (OnePieceNation 12:24, April 4, 2012 (UTC))

Haki is speculative, and Smoker might just have had to turn tangible in order to crush that rock. Don't add anything presumptious yet. 12:37, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

don't wurry, I am not adding anything untill it is confirmed. (OnePieceNation 12:42, April 4, 2012 (UTC))

Busoshoku Haki need body contact for be effective against fruit users, so law didn't use haki for 'mes'.

78.185.103.138 22:21, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Zoro slashed Monet with an air blade using Haki, so we cannot say for sure that Law didn't use Haki for "Mes".

Although, I don't think it's the case. He had Smoker's and Monet's hearts (both logia) and they couldn't just turn their hearts into elements, like a logia should regularly be able to, and get them back. So it's probably just the extension of Law's ability. Also, I think it only counts to "Mes", a arm severed with his ability, for exemple, should be able to turn into element and attach back, since the user remains in control of that part even far away. (like Kinemon).

(201.53.125.6 07:31, February 15, 2013 (UTC))

Law used BH to be able to steal their hearts and he sealed them in an ice embeded with BH so that the heart won't just return back into element whenever the user want to.

Really the heart?
In the latest chapter, Law swapped Smoker and Tashigi's bodies. We said before that he does this by swapping the victims' hearts. At the time of the switch, Smoker didn't have his heart, and still didn't after the Marines got away. So it must through some other means. Having said that, I don't know why hearts appeared out of them like that. 20:38, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

One of the kids wondered if their brains were switched, and I think they had the right organ in mind. 20:46, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's like the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi in this aspect, in that it can be used on intangible things. Just as Kuma used his DF on Luffy's pain and fatigue, Law used his on their souls or spirits (it's not just their personalities since they gave their own names.)
 * 海賊-姫 22:03, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

I agree the "heart" was the visual effect of the switch of the personalities, in fact the heart was shaped like the symbol, while the actual heart was shaped like an actual organ. We don't have to state which organs are switched, let's simply talk about personalities/souls.

Counter Shock
Do we know for certain that Counter Shock is from the Ope Ope no Mi? It doesn't have any of the traits of the ability, and Law didn't even use his sword. It looks like a non-fruit related attack. 23:34, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, he did create his 'room' before that attack cause he cut him in 2 first, so apparently it was his Devil Fruit.. Can't explain it better..

That was a different yeti though. This one actually caused physical damage to the guy, which his fruit power has nothing to do with. When's the last time he used an electric attack? It doesn't follow any of the Ope Ope no Mi's normal attack patterns. He didn't use his sword and since it's shock based can't be similar to Mesu. I don't think it's from the fruit. 02:43, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure it was a different yeti? The one that he hit was already cut in half, and last time I checked the other one had gotten hit by his own cannonball and was down. And just because it was called Counter Shock doesn't mean it has anything to do with electricity. 03:27, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it was an "operating room" that Law controls, and operating room have defibrillators for shocks, so the fruit granting him electricity (to an extent) is no surprise. 04:16, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Its the same yeti.

Even if it's the same yeti, it doesn't follow any of the characteristics of the other attacks. It actually causes physical damage including cracking part of Scotch's gas mask, it doesn't dismember, and it doesn't affect object placement. It would more seem like he had an electrical device in his hand when he jumped up and hit Scotch in the chest. It just seems too abnormal to be from Law's fruit compared to the other moves we've seen him use. 00:47, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

He didnt creat "Room" at all. But that doesnt matter since he still cut the yetiwithout "Room".G.Death 13:41, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Luffy can use Gear Second and Third without the steam or shrinking now so it is possible Law can use his ability without having to use Room. SeaTerror 16:23, May 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * He most likely did create a room. We've seen from the battle against Smoker and in the most recent chapter that his rooms can get really big now, so it was probably just bigger than the panel. As for creating the Room, well, it's just a waste of panels to show him saying "Room" every time. I can't think of any Devil Fruit ability where saying the same of the technique is actually necessary for it to work. Zodiaque 00:07, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

I believe there's an explanation for this technique that doesn't conflict with the description of the Ope-Ope no Mi's ability. The Ope-Ope no Mi is basically a fruit that grants the ability to move things freely within a limited space. So, when Law lays his hands on his opponent, he moves electrons in the space between his hands, creating an electrical current. The more electrons he moves at once, the greater potential difference (aka voltage) between the two locations (original location of electrons and the location he moved them to), and thus the more powerful the shock.

Likewise, the more electrons being moved at once, the higher the amperage (current in amps), also creating a more dangerous shock to the cardiovascular system. Anyone that knows more about electricity and shocks to the human body and anything else in my post that thinks I am wrong or left something out or feel they can improve on what I'm saying or clarify something better, please post your thoughts. Junaid-Sennin (talk) 11:30, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Retaining of original strength of those with switched bodies
There is no proof that people retain the same original physical power when in another body. Though Sanji and Smoker fought quite well while in Nami's and Tashigi's bodies respectively, Sanji was still easily knocked out by Nami-in-Franky when she punched him. One can argue that Franky's body is strong enough to do it against Sanji, but Nami-in-Franky made it clear when she knocked out Sanji-in-Nami that Sanji fainted because he was hit by Franky's fist while in her "weak self".

And a possible explanation to Smoker-in-Tashigi and Sanji-in-Nami good fighting performance against Luffy and Caesar's minions is that both can use Haki to improve their fighting capabilities, even if they're not with their stronger bodies at hand. Sanji, while in Nami's body, even mentions that his opponents are weak, justifing the possibility of defeating them when they said he was just "a weak woman". Shenduk 15:48, June 7, 2012 (UTC)Shenduk

scalpel
wasn't the scalpel technique used in the room. Because he used takt around the same location to impale smoker and that's an in room attack.Asian711 (talk) 18:52, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

If I remembered correct the whole fight between Smoker and Law took place inside the Room, so Mes was used inside the room aswell. K the AWC (talk) 19:34, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

out room attacks?
I just watched law use scalpel and conter shock. It seems that they're both still used in room How do you know it's used out of room? Where's the proof?Asian711 (talk) 19:47, September 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * love your username--

21:30, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

He says "room" when he uses in-room attacks. 10:01, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

OK, in both instances when he used mesu and coutner shock, he had room activated.Asian711 (talk) 03:33, September 20, 2013 (UTC) Can you give me proof that he actually wasn't in room while he used these?Asian711 (talk) 03:33, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Right now we have no proof. So this is considered speculation. 07:14, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

New Attack?
didn't he show a new attack in the latest manga chapter on Doflamingo? It think it was called knife or something and lit left a cut on doflamingo's cheekAsian711 (talk) 00:56, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

That was Mes (literally meaning scalpel). He used it against Smoker on Punk Hazard. 04:47, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ope Ope no mi teleportation discrepancy?
So it says that he can teleport by switching places with an object in his room. However, he's been shown to retrieve his hat and sword without switching it with anything. Can anyone address this? Also can you address how he was able to teleport with chopper?204.52.179.199 15:15, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Chalk it up to his DF powers getting stronger? No clear explanation at this time. 15:42, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hard to say. If he didn't have to switch with anything, then he wouldn't have done so when escaping from Green Bit. But keep in mind - the objects he switches with don't have to be big. In regard to teleporting with Chopper, there was plenty of snow around, and as far as retrieving his sword and hat go, he could've just swapped a piece of chain or even Smoker's smoke. It would waste panels for Oda if he spent a panel with the substitute object every time he switched something. Another possibility is that he just doesn't need a separate substitute object if he's teleporting an object to himself, but that's baseless speculation. 18:06, December 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hybrid Creations
I believe that the hybrid creations should be put in the Ope Ope no Mi page, since they are beings created via this devil fruit. Since someone has gone through the trouble of making a Centaur page we can leave it, but the main article on these hybrid races should probably fall under the Ope Ope no Mi rather than Punk Hazard, especially considering that they might no longer be residents of the island having surrendered to the Marines. Does anyone think the same? (Shadoguardian (talk) 14:07, June 30, 2014 (UTC))

Out-Room attacks?
OK, didn't he use shambles outside of room? From what I understand, mes and countershock are labeled as outroom attacks because he didn't say room before the attack. He did the same thing with shamble in the latest episode 655?64.126.35.32 16:57, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

I reviewed that episode and he said "Room" after saying "Shambles". Therefore it is still in-Room.

GOURD http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx27/sudhirshakya/1star4a.gif  ROGER  11:59, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

You don't always see/hear him say Room, but he still needs to make it. In this case, the Room had already been made and you could see the edge:

https://i.imgur.com/5Jir2x3.png

Also GR, please read this blog and fix your signature. You need to make two separate templates to avoid having a mass code every time you use it. 12:11, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Also don't forget that the anime isn't canon. SeaTerror (talk) 16:41, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

My bad. I'm doing that already. 12:38 October 26, 2014

Name Meaning
People, the name of this fruit is literaly meaning "medical operation", check it out:

http://jisho.org/words?jap=ope&eng=&dict=edict  http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E3%81%8A%E3%81%BA&eng=&dict=edict&romaji=on

Makes no sense to put speculation about what Oda really meant (if operation, operation room, etc), the word "Ope" really exist in japanese.

KishinZoro177 (talk) 20:48, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Giving One Eternal Youth in Exchange for the User's Life
That doesn't really make sense I don't think, that while you grant yourself eternal life it also kills the user. I was under the impression that it was used to make someone else have eternal youth at the expense of the Ope Ope user's life (ie. Law using the technique on Doflamingo). I don't know if I'm misunderstanding this, but what's stated at the page I think infers that performing the Eternal Youth Operation grants yourself eternal youth while at the same time killing you, which isn't logical. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, thanks.

Reeves92 (talk) 05:45, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Yep, that's right. 06:02, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for editing it! Figured it would be best for someone else more active in this wikia who may word it best. While we are talking about page additions for this recent chapter, I think there should be a mention of the National Treasure and World Noble pages. Though I'm guessing you guys might be waiting while you write up all the other facts for the history, such as them attempting to have Doflamingo killed before finally relenting and coorporating with him. Sorry if I shouldn't be talking about it on this talk page, but I didn't know if it was worth starting discussions on two different talk pages and thought it could be easier this way. Again, thanks.

Reeves92 (talk) 06:21, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Confusing explanation
Could someone take a look at the text below and rewrite it, it's just bad grammar:

When Donquixote Doflamingo got his hands on the Ope Ope no Mi, he was able to make use of the national treasure of Mariejois, which he has knowledge of and that the World Nobles deemed too dangerous for him to live, allowing him the authority to conquer the world by threatening the Celestial Dragons with this combination, which they were forced to comply.[3]

193.202.17.249 08:01, October 23, 2014 (UTC)

Donquixote Pirates navi-box
Does the Donquixote Pirates Navibox actually belong here? Since Law already defected by the time he ate it, and unlike the Mera Mera no Mi, the crew never actually owned the fruit, as when Rosinante took it and force-fed Law, both are already defected. 06:19, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

But Dofla crew is closely related to the fruit from past to present, right? --Klobis (talk) 06:44, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

Then maybe place the fruit under the "Others" instead of "Belongings". 07:37, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be completely absent. --Meganoide (talk) 20:33, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Meganoide. MasterDeva (talk) 12:46, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah it should. As of this point it wasn't in the navbox either. 12:58, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Take it out. It's just misleading. 16:22, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd say leave it out. 17:07, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, it should be removed. And since there's a clear majority here, the dicussion is over. 21:06, December 9, 2014 (UTC)

PW2 Attack
I keep forgetting to ask about this: In Pirate Warriors 2 Law's 2nd special attack is called "No One Will Go Back" and it mimics the way Law defeated Vergo and sliced the mountain of Punk Hazard. Do you think its worth putting in the Video Game section? AsuraDrago 23:59, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well, we should probably have the Japanese title of it first. 00:30, December 11, 2014 (UTC)

Oh right. Well I tried comparing the Japanese spelling of the attack from the original version of the game to a translated version of the phrase, and a few Kanji matched up. Hard to determine since I can't fully understand Japanese. AsuraDrago 21:23, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

I noticed this wasn't fully resolved. The Japanese name for his attack is "もう誰も引き返せねエ！” which is the exact same line he says at the end of his monologue after defeating Vergo in chapter 690. MizuakiYume (talk) 18:16, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

Shambles vs. Chambres
So as you may know, Viz translates Law's "Shambles" as "Chambres"

We already have this note by Viz's editor concerning "Chambres": https://twitter.com/alexiskjump/status/262972317645275136

Today we received another piece of evidence supporting the latter and not the former: edit, alternate host: http://i.imgur.com/fTPinp1.jpg

The spinoff is by Ei Ando, author of Majin no Gald. So is this enough reason to change the attack name or no? Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 15:51, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

What the hell is this drawing? We don't use spinoffs as primary sources for anything. 16:42, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

So what's the primary source for you naming it Shambles? At least with "Chambres" we have the english editor for the series confirming it's straight from Oda and his editor. Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 17:20, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Funimation official subtitles.

18:25, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

User:Klobis SeaTerror (talk) 18:40, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

If "Chambres" really comes straight from Oda, then that's what we should use. 19:09, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Third party source so it isn't reliable. SeaTerror (talk) 19:12, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Chambres is French for room, Shambles means a state of total disorder. So they both make sense. Just adding fuel to the fire. 19:49, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a 3rd party source, but it also claims to be from a first party source. It's also on twitter. Why don't we have someone with a twitter (like our admin, DP) just tweet the guy and ask for a little bit more clarification? Like who the "editor" is, and any reasons for the change, etc.

With that amount of detail, it would be a great source, and irrefutable evidence. We don't have to go only off of published stuff, we can ask people directly involved in OP for some stuff too. 19:51, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Either way, Shambles makes far more sense. Also, I hate to be this guy, but I'm going to cry Engrish. 19:57, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

If it isn't published then it isn't reliable. Anybody could make up a claim on Twitter and say that "Oda said this". SeaTerror (talk) 20:05, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, except this is an editor for Viz who oversees One Piece. He has access to the editors at Shueisha and Oda himself. And as for Funimation Official Subtitles, what proof do we have that they consulted Oda or the editors for the translation? They could've just as easily done the same thing most fan translations do and assigned the closest sounding english word to it. Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 20:13, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

"Shambles" makes far more sense? I thought the opposite, actually. Law's attacks are pretty heavy on the "Room" thing. But I'm not fighting for either side here. I would prefer the FUNimation translation to Viz until we have an official source. 21:36, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

Well, "Chambres" does have its own sense: a chamber for the operation to take place. But "Shambles" does indicate how he jumbles up everything inside. 20:25, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

Both names make sense, since as Ryu mentioned that "Chambres" means "room" in French, and as Yata said, a chamber for Law's operation to take place, but Shambles means a state of total disorder, which refers to how Low disarranges everything inside his area.

So this is a pretty tough call to make for us, especially when an editor for Viz confirmed that "Chambres" comes directly from Oda, but it's on Twitter, and as such, wouldn't be considered official.

As JSD asked, would it be possible for us to get further confirmation on "Chambres" or not? If not, then I'm going with "Shambles". However, if we do get further confirmation on "Chambres", then I'll go with it. 00:14, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Well, if this turns into Chambres, should we consider turning Jora to Giolla too? 00:43, February 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * Why do you say that? 00:46, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone here have a twitter? I don't, otherwise I'd ask them myself. 03:00, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

@Jade, since Chambres and Giolla are VIZ translations, more trustworthy than fan-based scanlations as Shambles and Jora. @JSD, I don't either. 08:14, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

I didn't know Klobis was a scanlation. SeaTerror (talk) 08:30, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Frankly, I'd like to hear his opinion on this matter. 08:58, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Generally Viz is trustworthy with translating One Piece, but sometimes I question certain attack names/terms they use. Don't they still use "Zolo" over "Zoro?. But in this case the translation seems to work well either way. So whats it going to take to settle this? Ask a Viz person on twitter? AsuraDrago 20:42, February 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * We could also use a poll, see which name we prefer more. 21:15, February 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * If "Chambres" really comes from Oda, then our preference shouldn't factor into it. 21:17, February 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * Tough to know whether "Chambres" comes directly from Oda or not, without further confirmation. If not, then it may well go to the poll. 21:20, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Can anyone with a Twitter account please ask the editors for Viz for further confirmation or do I have to sign up and ask them myself? 21:20, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

I have a twitter I havent used in about an era, I'll shoot them a message. It seems silly to hold a poll over an attack name. Provided we find correct info and sources to compare to. Heck maybe the Viz website will hold answers. I'll get in contact with Viz. AsuraDrago 21:23, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

So if we're following VIZ unless Oda brings out another spelling, then should we change Jora to Giolla (since both VIZ and FUNimation use that spelling)? 02:25, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

No. And nobody said we are using Viz's spelling anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 02:39, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

No. Why does everything have to be the transitive property with translations? We go with the most accurate, which may or may not be Viz or whomever. 02:46, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

If we did simply switch out for Viz terms it would lead to more debate. Such as Eneru over Enel. I'd trust Funimation over Viz, since there are some differences between them at times with translation. AsuraDrago 02:49, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Funimation uses Bon Clay though. SeaTerror (talk) 02:51, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Alright guys, stop bringing out your hatred for official translations now. We're trying to decide whether is the correct name, not naming out reasons why we hate official translations. 02:53, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Stay. On. Topic. We're talking about the name of one move, and only this one move. If you want to talk about other translations, take it to those pages. Not here.

I have nothing else to add until there's some response from twitter, and you guys should to. 03:07, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

If I may interject briefly in this debate...it seems much of the argument on either side is based on how accurate Viz/Funimation's translations might be, but I'd like to bring up some logic arguments against romanizing this ability as Chambres. Just thought I'd throw those out there for posterity in the midst of the translation battle.--Xilinoc (talk) 03:10, February 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Chambres translates to "Rooms" in French, and Law's already got a technique called Room. If it were the only extension of that technique, I could see why it might be Chambres instead of Shambles, but it seems redundant in a naming sense to me.
 * 2) Chambres is French, not English. Obvious, I know, but consider this: on the whole, the techniques for a Devil Fruit are either in English, Japanese, or another foreign language, but only that language. "Chambres" would be the only non-English technique in all of Law's known repertoire, which doesn't fit with any other DF we know. Shambles, on the other hand, is English like everything else he uses.
 * 3) Shambles makes more sense as a technique name considering what said technique actually does. Pretty opinion-based, I know, but a lot of the arguments I'm seeing are as well.

Shambles is read as Shanburuzu. Chambres is read as Chanbāsu. Does that solve anything? 04:40, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think Japanese romanji helps here, how about we just settle with Shambles like Xilinoc suggested for now? Then in the future if we find out the spelling is different we fix it.

Besides, I doubt Viz will reply to my tweet or messages at this point. AsuraDrago 04:50, February 9, 2015 (UTC)


 * Did you tweet Viz, or the guy who posted the tweet above? 05:08, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Still, I like to hear Klobis' opinion on this matter. 05:25, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

It may be Chambres, but I think it is most likely Shambles. Chambers (English) is read as Chanbāzu. Chambres (French) is read as Shanburu. --Klobis (talk) 14:22, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

So does that settle it, then? Yata and Klobis's evidence seems pretty solid and final for what the word actually is.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:30, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I have no objections against using "Shambles". 21:06, February 9, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, let's use Shambles. 10:44, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Shambles seems most accurate, and yes I sent the tweet, but the odds of a reply are slim. AsuraDrago 22:35, February 10, 2015 (UTC) I didn't see that the tweet was 3 years old before... Why don't people tell me these things? Does Viz still use "Chambres" though? 22:54, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I checked their translation of the chapter where Law throws the piece of wood when Doflamingo is attacking the Sunny. He said Chambres. 22:56, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

The Chapter 2 cover for One Piece Party says "Chambres". I'd say that this combined with the word of the Viz editor is enough proof. 22:43, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

While ST is gone, allow me to step in for a moment:

Spin offs are non-canon.

There's no proof that the text on this poster was ever reviewed by Oda, so I still don't see enough of reason to change it. 22:50, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, but it has never been written in English by Oda. Obviously original manga takes priority, but we use databooks, anime etc. to determine the correct spelling if it's not in the manga. I think a spin-off should qualify as well. And like I said, we also have a Viz editor claiming that Oda/Oda's editor said it's "Chambres". So even if neither would do by themselves, I think that combined they're enough proof. 23:03, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Kage, why should we not include spin-offs as sources? And with the Viz editor claiming that it's "Chambres" as well, I'm inclined to think "Chambres" is correct. 23:49, February 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, "reviewed by Oda" isn't what I meant, exactly. I just don't see any evidence that it goes through any of Oda's assistants or the normal fact-checking things databooks would go through. 01:06, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

What Just said. It isn't done by Oda. SeaTerror (talk) 06:34, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Neither is the anime, yet we use it as a source for spellings when there's nothing more reliable available. 12:19, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

And I'm against that too. Think that went to a poll a long time ago though. SeaTerror (talk) 17:58, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

I would support it if it wasn't in conflict with what Klobis posted. But this is not like a case where the anime/spinoff or whatever is the only evidence. There is evidence to support other spellings from the manga. 15:25, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

Klobis said it may be Chambres. Not like Oda is an expert in French. What "evidence" are you referring to? 15:47, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

If we apparently can't decide what evidence to trust, let us look at it logically. The setup for this move to be used is called Room. Would Law then use a move that translates to Rooms? It seems much less likely than Shambles.

18:33, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

I decided to contact Mr. Kirsch myself and ask him what was the deal with the translation. Here was his response (redacted info is my personal details): http://i.imgur.com/guvesgn.png

If anyone would like to contact him themselves, please ask on twitter before emailing him. I don't want him to be spammed with mail because of me showing his official email address.

Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 17:32, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

You're basically saying that Chambres is correct, but Shambles is acceptable, and therefore we would have to pick either based on which one the people prefer more? Dang. 21:21, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Klobis said Shambles is more acceptable though. SeaTerror (talk) 00:18, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

With all due respect to Klobis, this is coming from an editor at Shueisha. Unless his conclusions are based on discussions with those same editors, I fail to see how his word would be any more different than any other translator for a scanlation group.Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 00:26, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Klobis is an actual Japanese person from Japan. I'm pretty sure he would know Japanese better than somebody who just learned Japanese in college. SeaTerror (talk) 00:35, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Just ask what Klobis thinks now that we have word from a Shueisha editor. He already said it may be Chambres, anyway. 00:42, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

This is a Viz editor anyway. Not somebody working directly from Shueisha. SeaTerror (talk) 00:55, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

"The editor from Shueisha contacted Viz to say it is supposed to be Chambres." 00:59, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Just to say this why would Law say "room" and then say room again in french "chambres" when "shambles" means disorderly which is exactly what he is doing by moving things around like he does. If the editor says that both are acceptable then why not look at it logically? "Chambres" makes no sense. HB Fagen 01:12, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Read the email again, Kirsch clearly explains why he thinks "Chambres" is the correct translation in the second paragraph. Our assumptions and logic on what the translation is supposed to be is irrelevant when an editor from Shueisha (not Viz, as SeaTerror seems to be thinking) dictated that the translation is supposed to be "Chambres".Idontknowwhatimdoing (talk) 01:53, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I have no problem with using "Chambres". 01:55, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

We don't even know if what he said is true anyway. It makes no sense why an editor would say something Oda should have said. Besides that you ignored what I said about Klobis. SeaTerror (talk) 02:08, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that... an editor for Shueisha is not Japanese...? 02:10, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

No. I'm saying Klobis already said what was most likely. I'm also saying we don't even know if what the Viz editor said is right. SeaTerror (talk)


 * Frankly, I think an editor at Shueisha would know better than Klobis. And why would an editor at Viz lie to us or something? 02:56, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I think it could go either way, to be honest. Chambres doesn't make logical sense to me, coming after Room is used, but if both Klobis and this Shueisha editor say it could be either then we've got a problem on our hands.

15:14, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Bump. 03:03, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to care any more, let's just finish this off. We have an email from someone who actually works on the publication of One Piece. That's got to be fairly conclusive proof. I don't see the issue, just change it and close this.

14:56, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't really mind. In fact, if we really wanted to know, might as well send Oda himself an SBS question about it. 15:02, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

(Just change it for now though.) 15:03, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

"just change it and close this." That email is from a Viz member not somebody who works for the publication of One Piece. SeaTerror (talk) 17:51, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, strike what I said earlier. I found it odd that "Chambres" (french, pronounced something like "shambrahhh") and "Shambles" (english, prounounced how it's written) would have the same romanization/spelling in Japanese, so I decided to do my research. Here's what I found: On top of this, I'd like to mention how Oda seems to like keeping his individual characters' attack names consistent in language (one specific foreign language, and possibly the occasional Japanese), and that "Shambles" seems to be the more logical term definition-wise in this scenario. 22:07, March 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) First, when you enter "シャンブルズ" (how the technique is written in japanese) or "シャンブルズ日本語" (Shanburuzu- Nihongo [Japanese]) into google, all the top results that are unrelated to One Piece suggest that シャンブルズ refers to Shambles. Some examples of the top results include "Babyshambles [ベイビーシャンブルズ]", "The Shambles: York, England [イギリス・ヨーク、シャンブルズ道り]", "Omnishambles [オムニシャンブルズ]", and various blogs explaining the meaning of the word "Shambles".
 * 2) This one struck me the most. So, as we've established so far, we're not sure which term to use because both "Shambles" (a state of total disorder) and "Chambres" (rooms) are seemingly written as "シャンブルズ" in Japanese. Now here's the catch. After doing some research, (entering "chambres 発音"- chambres pronunciation into google) I came across search results that instruct Japanese-speakers to not pronounce the "s" suffix in French; in other words, both the words "Chambre" and "Chambres" would be written as "シャンブル[Shanburu]" in Japanese. This means that, by process of elimination, "Shambles" (still written as "シャンブルズ") would be the correct term.

Yeah, well, Klobis already explained all that. None of it really matters if Oda intended for it to be "Chambres", which seems to be the case here. It's not like he or the Shueisha editor are experts in English/French. 22:16, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

True. I simply expanded on what he said. But we also know that our only sources for Chambres are third party. 22:20, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

We emailed the Viz editor, and he confirmed that a Shueisha editor contacted him that it's "Chambres". I'm not sure about you, but that's definitely not a third party source at all. 22:23, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Who contacted first, Viz or Shueisha? Because it's entirely possible that the Japanese were suddenly alerted of the term "Chambres" and shrugged "sure", going with the flow of things. Anyway, my point was that even the general Japanese public (which Oda is part of) seems to agree that シャンブルズ=Shambles. 22:26, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

According to the e-mail, Shueisha contacted Viz. 22:29, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

And do we have proof that this Shueisha editor wasn't acting on his own will? Because I doubt Oda has the time to take watching Viz subs to catch a mistake. 22:35, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

Well, JOP's post is pretty convincing for me from an unbiased standpoint.

But as we know the email complicates things. Here's my problem: We like to take our things from our primary source (Oda & the manga). This email is not from our primary source. It's from a 3rd party/tertiary source (Viz), and it claims that an unnamed editor from Shueisha (secondary source) told him the proper translation. Not that I don't trust the guy from Viz, but this is hearsay. And it's not even hearsay of our primary source. If we want to cite this, it's kind of a nightmare of a chain of evidence.

Short of contacting Shueisha directly, I'm not sure how we can settle this. 01:51, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Well, if we ever get around to doing the SBS question thing that JOP mentioned, this should be our very first inquiry. Until then, I think we might as well close the discussion due to not have an official 1st party source, and just wait and see.--Xilinoc (talk) 09:17, March 13, 2015 (UTC)