Template talk:Monkey D. Luffy Infobox

Age
According to Oda, One Piece Film: Strong World is "Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old", this quote can be found here. Now this is a reputable source and one that should be easy enough to verify if you doubt it. I'm not particularly sure why people keep reverting Luffy's age to 17 since Strong World took place between Saobody and Thriller Bark. This is proven by Sengoku still being Fleet Admiral, the whole crew being together, and Brook being part of the crew. Since Luffy has clearly had another adventure it must mean he is 18 years of age.Bastian964 03:45, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oda's note does indeed say that it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, and events within the film seem to place it between Thriller Bark and Sabaody. However, there are some discrepancies.


 * In the manga, there has yet to be indication that Luffy has celebrated his 18th birthday after Thriller Bark. Did he have his birthday after Strong World, before Sabaody, during Sabody, near the end of Saboady, or so on?
 * Oda says that Strong World is Luffy's adventure as a 17 year old, however how exactly can it be interpreted? Can be interpreted as literally or metaphorically? In a metaphorical sense, during Sabaody and the later arcs, Luffy came into situations that practically overwhelmed. Him not protecting his crew and not saving Ace, are kinda key situations that the normal 17 year old Luffy couldn't easily handle. He kinda needed some self personal character growth that would pretty much surpass Luffy's kid personality.
 * Strong World is called an adventure. However, what is exactly Oda refering the adventure as. Is it Luffy's last 17 year old adventure with his crew? Is it Luffy's last 17 year old personal adventure and not a quest to save a family member?


 * Mugiwara Franky 04:32, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. Does there need to be an indication in the manga? If it happened off screen or if Luffy forgot

about his own birthday, so be it. We have Oda's word that he turned 18.
 * 2. and 3. You are saying that we should take "This story is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old so watch it over and over again!" figuratively. It seems pretty clear cut. He's 17, Strong World happens, he is no longer 17 before his next adventure. Even if you were to try to go all philosophical and argue the meaning of adventure, it would be pretty hard to argue that Luffy's Amazon Lily adventure wasn't an adventure. Also, an adventure is an adventure, whether it is horrific, fun, or personal is not the issue, Oda just states that it is an adventure. Furthermore, if the wiki isn't going to take Oda for his word and just start speculating on the nature of adventure, then who else will. Finally, you are trying to tell me that you think last adventure as a 17 year old means he metaphorically grew up? Seriously? Bastian964 05:02, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Having an indication in the manga kinda justifies stuff so it doesn't seem like speculation. Oda's word by the way, was that Strong World was Luffy's last 17 year old adventure, he didn't say Luffy is now 18 years. You can say that this is a person's last adventure as a 30 years old. It does not mean that exactly before his next adventure, he is 31 years old. He could have become 31 in the middle of the next adventure.


 * Taking from what I said, would the events from Sabaody to current be considered as completely separate adventures with different goals or one single adventure expanding across different parts but with one overall goal.


 * As for what I'm saying, I don't mean that last adventure as a 17 year old means he metaphorically grew up? I kinda mean that Strong World can be interpreted as the last time Luffy would act like his old childish self. After that, especially what happens in Sabaody and Marineford, Luffy's personality would slowly but surely change to a more grown up one.Mugiwara Franky 05:22, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * (indent) That is growing up metaphorically and might be a valid option if Oda said he was going to grow up or that he was mentally no longer going to be a child instead of saying he was no longer going to be 17, no longer 17 means he is now 18. Even if he became 18 in the middle of the next adventure that still makes him 18 since the adventure is over. I'll give you a hint, it doesn't matter if they are considered separate adventures or the same one (though they certainly didn't have the same goal since some of them were to get back to his friends and some of them were to free Ace) considering it's over and thus he is now 18. Bastian964 16:41, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * True, it would be clearer if Oda had said that after Strong World Luffy grows up. However, what he said really doesn't necessarily support Luffy being 18 to a degree. His quote was that Strong World would be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old. He however really does not specifically say Luffy is no longer 17 years old.


 * Sure, you can interpret that because Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old therefore Luffy becomes 18 years old some time after the movie. However, some real specifics like a birthday scene or a box stating Luffy's age, it really falls into speculations. It's like guessing a sequence without getting all the details. The sequence I say is like this:


 * A;B;C;D
 * A=1 and B=2 so what is C?
 * Based on A and B, C would probably be 3.
 * This however is wrong, because D is unknown.
 * Without D, B could be 3, 4, 1, or whatever else.


 * The problem with Oda's quote is kinda like that. Without Oda specifically saying that Luffy is no longer a 17 year old, you really can't second guess that Luffy is definitely 18.


 * Also while the incident with Ace is over, it kinda doesn't justify that Luffy is now 18. It still comes within the realm of speculation because it still speculates that Luffy had his birthday somewhere between before Sabaody to current events. There's nothing definite to go on other than Oda's word which could be interpreted otherwise.Mugiwara Franky 17:49, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * A happens, A is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, sometime later B happens, before or during B Luffy becomes 18. The statement couldn't be any clearer unless Oda decided to get needlessly redundant. It doesn't need any birthday scene or age box because we have Oda's word that Luffy is no longer 17. It is not speculation to say that Luffy is 18 because the next adventure is already OVER. If you don't trust the word of the author then this isn't much of an encyclopedia especially since I have refute any other alleged meanings. My final words on your denial, I have refuted every single one of your statements and now your just making stuff up with the whole A doesn't necessarily beget B, when in fact Oda's statement forces A then B. Bastian964 18:43, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * The statement is only clear that A is Luffy's last adventure. The "sometime later B happens, before or during B Luffy becomes 18" is vague and is the problem. There is no definite specifics like A is Luffy's last adventure. It's just assuming that maybe he became 18 without any evidence.


 * As to the next adventure is over, is it really the B you speak of. True, the treks that Luffy went through Impel Down and Marineford can be considered as adventures but are they considered as adventures to Oda? If we speculate that they are, then the assumption range is small. But if we speculate that they aren't, then the assumption range is too great. In either case however, it's all speculation.


 * As to trust, I do trust the word of the author, I trust the statement. Its just the theory of what can be made up of that statement is filled with a bit too much speculation. With that in mind, I am also thinking of being encyclopedic as I would rather have facts to support a statement rather than speculations. Strong World being Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old is a fact. Him becoming a 18 year old after Strong World is a fact. He being already 18 is not a fact. It is a speculation as there is no definite statement that states he already turned 18.


 * The discussion is not over.Mugiwara Franky 19:22, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well before the discussion begins again, I would like us to get someone who understands Japanese to read the original statement and explain the undertext of each of the words because you are placing undue signifigance on the word adventure which isn't actually there in english and doesn't necessarily apply to the word in Japanese. Bastian964 03:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Whether the original Japanese word means literally adventure or something else is not the case. It is not a translation problem. It is a speculation problem. I maybe placing "undue significance" to the word but you are as well giving "undue significance" to a speculation without full facts.Mugiwara Franky 03:55, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * By "speculation" you mean taking the creator of the franchise at his word. Also by "undue significance" I mean you need to actually look up what adventure means.Bastian964 20:08, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

We don't even know where it took place in the timeline anyway. SeaTerror 20:44, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes we do. We know it is canon. We also know there is only one place in canon it could fit since Brook is on the crew, the crew is still together, and Sengoku is still Fleet Admiral. Thus it has to be between Sabaody and Thriller Bark. Bastian964 21:04, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say: if Oda says Luffy is at the end of his 17th year, then we should take it literally, until/unless he confirms that he was merely being metaphorical. After all, we should trust the author's words 100%, otherwise, we wouldn't be trusting SBS sources. Yatanogarasu 04:48, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Facts
Okay let me just list down the facts of what we know.Mugiwara Franky 09:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Oda said that Strong World is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old.
 * 2) He does not say that Luffy will be immediately 18 years old after the events of the movie.
 * 3) He does not say that Luffy will be immediately 18 years old before his next adventure.
 * 4) His line hints that in the near future Luffy will become 18.
 * 5) Luffy has Brook, the crew is together and Sengoku is still Fleet Admiral in the movie so that gives the theory that the movie may have happened between Thriller Bark and Sabody.
 * 6) There has been no indication yet such as a scene or box telling that Luffy has become 18 years old.

Discussion II
Now I know what Oda has said and the facts that are presented, but the fact that Luffy is already 18 is really a speculation. We really do not have anything definite yet that states he turned 18. We can speculate that he turned 18 offscreen during Sabaody but that's just that, a speculation.Mugiwara Franky 09:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * There is also the scenes from Luffy's and Ace's flashback with this and this. The flashback that is introduced says 10 years ago, and Sabo's introbox says 10 years old. Since Ace is the same age as Sabo then and 3 years older than Luffy, the 10 years ago would mean that Luffy was 7 years old at the time. It kinda means that Luffy is still 17 years. If he was 18 by the time he remembered, then the flashback would have said 11 years ago. True, there can be a few days or months that could be rounded off so that it can be 10 years by the time Luffy is 18, but that is speculationMugiwara Franky 09:40, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay points one, two, and three are ridiculous. Saying that it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old means he HAS to turn 18 before the end of his next adventure. And before you say Impel Down wasn't an adventure, look up what adventure means. Here's a link to google's definitions in case you are still feeling lazy. Point 4 is a obvious but incomplete. Point 5 is overly skeptical. That is literally the only point in canon where it could fit and it was agreed upon that Strong World is canon. Point 6 is your most ridiculous point. There doesn't need to be any sort of box or scene saying Luffy is older, we already have the word of the author so another indication would just be redundant. As for your other point, people have different birthdays, think about why that is important and maybe it will come to you. Bastian964 17:06, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * You forgot the author's word. "I will finish the manga within 5 years!" Tipota 21:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * So because Oda made a mistake about a future event, you think we shouldn't trust him on a present event? Plus the whole finish the series in 5 years thing was a real life issue (in other words his publishing company saw where the money was coming from and wanted more of it), this is an in series matter. Also if we don't trust the author's word then we clearly need to get rid of every bit of info from the SBS's. Bastian964 22:52, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Can I request a link to proof of this whole "LAst adventure as 17" business? Its rather confusing to know where its coming from unless you do post it. One-Winged Hawk 21:39, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Never mind... That was tiredness kicking in. One-Winged Hawk 21:41, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Bastian, you are speculating based on stuff that is not definite. I am fully aware what adventure means. However just because Oda says it is Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old really does not mean that instantly Luffy make 18 after the movie. A person can have a few months before their next birthday happens after their last anything. In that amount of time, people can have things that are similar to their last but are considered different by them or something like that. Besides, you yourself are saying that point 5, when Strong World happens, is skeptical. That's not a good argument to support your Luffy is already 18.

As for your argument about birthdays, I know they have different birthdays which I why I said you could possibly round some days or months so that Luffy is 18 years old and 7 years old 10 years prior. However, that is really over speculation. You are speculating that there has been n amount of time so that 18-10=7 or more precisely (18-n)-10=7.

In case people are not getting the math, here it is:

X=Luffy's age now

F=Years ago when Sabo Flashback happened

L=Luffy's age back then

A=Ace's age back then

S=Sabo age back then

F=10 years ago

S=10 years old

A=S

L=A-3=S-3

L=10-3

L=7 years old

X-F=L

X-10=7

X=17 years old now

Now this is math based on Oda's written words and not speculation. The only way it could be so that X=18 years old now, is that if there was a n amount of time to make (18-n)-10=7. However, we don't even know what n is because we don't know exactly when in Luffy's "adventures" after Strong World he supposedly became 18.

I trust the author's word. However, I do not speculate stuff if he creates a situation that gives a big ?Mugiwara Franky 01:09, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, when do you think we should take Oda's words that Luffy will become 18, if not right after Strong World? Yatanogarasu 01:14, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * We take Oda's word that Luffy is 18 when he tells us directly he is 18 now through a scene or a timeskip. We do not speculate that Luffy is 18 through a message that's not entirely clear.Mugiwara Franky 01:17, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

In case people are wondering, Oda's quote can be found in Vol. 0 and can be found translated by people via forum here or here for starters. The posters translate what Oda has said however the subsequent discussions after the original show that there's not exactly an agreed understanding by all.Mugiwara Franky 01:23, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Bastian964 02:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old was Strong World.
 * 2) Strong World can only fit into the canon timeline between Thriller Bark and Sabaody Archipelago because Brook was on the crew, the crew was together, and Garp and Sengoku still had their position in the marines.
 * 3) Sabaody Archipelago, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, and the war at Marineford were all adventures if you actually read the various definitions of adventure Google gave.
 * 4) Since multiple adventures happened with multiple goals in each adventure (or at the very least one adventure is over depending on your views), Luffy is 18.
 * 5) The problem with you 'math' is you are making the assumption (and thus the speculation) that Ace and Sabo are the same age. All the supposed proof that you gave is "Also Ace, which one of us is the bigger brother? It's a bit weird to have two first-born sons...." Without speculation, all that really tells you is that they are about the same age and Sabo isn't necessarily sure which is older.


 * For the hundreth time, yes Oda said Strong World was Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old but that doesn't necessarily mean he immediately becomes 18 at the end of the movie or become 18 off screen in between the movie and whatever else came after. Oda's quote says something but it isn't exactly that clear. I mean even the guy who was interviewing Oda at the time didn't understand what he meant and Oda didn't explain himself at that time.


 * For my math, I am assuming based on facts. By the line "Also Ace, which one of us is the bigger brother? It's a bit weird to have two first-born sons...." does indeed mean that they are about the same age. The same age means that since Sabo is 10 then Ace is at least 10 give or take some months since we don't know Sabo's birthday. Since Ace is 3 years older than Luffy, as given by his age before he died, that means when Ace was 10 then Luffy was 7. It's abit impossible for it to be any other way with Ace 10 and Luffy 8.


 * Year 1: Ace is born in January 1
 * Year 2: Ace becomes 1 year old in Jan
 * Year 3: Ace becomes 2 years old in Jan
 * Year 4: Ace becomes 3 years old in Jan, Luffy is born months later in May 5
 * Year 5: Ace becomes 4 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 1 year old in May
 * Year 6: Ace becomes 5 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 2 years old in May
 * Year 7: Ace becomes 6 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 3 years old in May
 * Year 8: Ace becomes 7 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 4 years old in May
 * Year 9: Ace becomes 8 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 5 years old in May
 * Year 10: Ace becomes 9 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 6 years old in May
 * Year 11: Ace becomes 10 years old in Jan, Luffy becomes 7 years old in May


 * This is a chart of their Luffy and Ace's ages in a gist. Are you seriously saying that during Ace's age as a 10 year old, Luffy became 8 thus justifying the 10 years Oda wrote in the flashback in relation to Luffy's age after Ace's death?Mugiwara Franky 05:31, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to just drop in my two cents. I don't think Luffy is 18 yet. He'll probably become so soon, but until it's officially stated in the manga, I believe he's still 17. When Oda said this was Luffy's last adventure at 17, I interpreted as the whole Whitebeard War as that adventure. (Strong World takes place within that Saga.) It would make sense for him to grow older both metaphorically and physically after all the things he just went through. So, to sum is all up: I think Luffy is still 17. But, he may become 18 after the theorized timeskip we've all been guessing about. --YazzyDream 06:16, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

...Can I just say that I think you guys are taking this way too seriously. I know there are rules and guidelines to keeping the Wiki organized so it's a full fledged encyclopedia of factual information...but come on, people. All of these details, mathematical formulas and arguments are seriously just killing whatever joy there is in even reading the manga and enjoying the series. It's also making my damn head hurt reading through all this crap (I don't understand math, so all that stuff that MF posted up made me dizzy.) I just think you should lighten up, leave the whole situation alone, and wait for further information to be released. You shouldn't be arguing about it, because you senior editors or whatever know how the policy works around here. "No unnecessary edits until further information is released" and all that jazz. Subrosian 06:23, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I will only say that probably we will never see a birthday cake on Thousand Sunny, because it would be useless and this should happen for every crewmember, with the consequence of too much "reading time" lost. I'll continue thinking about this discussion during next days. --Meganoide 06:45, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think there is a definite possibility that Luffy is now 18. When Luffy was first left with Dadan in the flashback, it did not state the current month, so it is unknown when Luffy's birthday happened exactly in relation to the beginning of the flashback storyline. There is a high likelihood that his 8th birthday occured during the part of the flashback before the time skip to Ace's 17th birthday when he started his pirate journey, thus the "10 years ago" part could still hold water for both 17 and 18 year old Luffy. As it's been stated before, this could be and probably is merely speculation, but that's just my take on the matter. Personally, if you ask me, he's probably 18 by now. I agree with Subrosian that we should wait until something more official is released.DancePowderer 14:33, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Luffy now can be 17, but he can be 18 as well. Just write in the infobox "17 or 18". Ruxax 21:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Another idea: write "17 (as of Chapter 27)" or something like that. Ruxax 21:34, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ruxax has a good idea, putting 17-18 works for now. I was just thinking though, couldn't this potentially mean that everyone's ages would go up (ie.Nami would be 19, Franky would be 35, Hancock would be 30, etc.) DancePowderer 22:05, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's all really just based on speculation and not based on something definite. We can't write Luffy is 18 as of Chapter X because we aren't sure of when Chapter X is.


 * Luffy being 8 years when the first part of the Sabo flashback happened is quite impossible due to several things which I've stated above but I guess should be reiterated.


 * Ace and Sabo are stated as being the same age.
 * Sabo was 10 years old back then.
 * Ace is 3 years older than Luffy as evidenced by Oda revealing Ace's age through various sources.
 * Since Ace was 10 years old 10 years ago, then Luffy was 7 years old back then.
 * Since Luffy was 7 years old 10 years ago, then Luffy is 17 years old now.


 * You could say that Luffy may have been 8 years old when the first part of the Sabo flashback happened but that would conflict with other points. Notably, it would conflict with Ace's age. Ace is 3 years older than Luffy no matter how you look at it and with Ace and Sabo being the same age at the 10 back then, then Luffy couldn't have been 8 years old back then.


 * Now you can say I'm just speculating on Ace's age back then was 10 years old and he may have been 11 years so that Luffy's age back then could be 8, however that would really conflict with 2 notable points.


 * First it would conflict with Sabo's age and message. When Sabo left his message to Ace and Luffy, he mentioned it being weird that the brotherly bond they created had two elder brothers being him and Ace. Now it would conflict with Sabo's message if Ace was 11 years old. Sabo was saying it was weird because he was looking at their ages in general. It was weird because Ace and Sabo were of the same age. If Ace was 11 years old then Sabo wouldn't mention it being weird.
 * Second, it would conflict with the 10 years ago. If Ace was 11 years old back 10 years ago, then that would mean that Ace is 21 years old in present time. That is an impossibility due to Akainu's handiwork.


 * Now you could say that Luffy turned 8 during the Sabo flashback however it wouldn't change the fact that he was 7 at the start of the flashback. The start of the flashback stated 10 years ago and that's where we first calculate Luffy's age at. Unless there was a box saying otherwise, it can be justifiably assumed that when Luffy turned 8 it would be 9 years ago and not 10.Mugiwara Franky 00:00, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The compromise of writing 17-18 would be still speculation also as we still wouldn't be sure if Luffy had turned 18 already. As for the ages of other characters, that's really speculating since they all have different birthdays.Mugiwara Franky 00:06, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * This argument is completely ridiculous but I understand where both sides are coming from. Here are my thoughts:

1. The birthdays for the character are made by FANS, not Oda himself. He just goes along with whatever they say, so the birthdays shouldn't be taken too seriously, thus math is useless.

2. We know that Strong World took place between the Thriller Bark and the SA arc. Oda said Strong World will be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old.

3. Since both the SA arc and the ID arc have chapters with the words "adventure" in it, it is safe to assume that Oda considers those two arcs as "adventures". (the two are chapter 497 titled "adventure on the archipelago of dancing soap bubbles", and chapter 526, "adventure in the great prison.")

4. Since you can argue metaphorically that Oda meant it would be as his last adventure as a 17-year old as psychological development, this point is void, since there is no clear definition of how 17 or 18 year olds should act.

All these points point to the conclusion that Luffy is 18. Oathkeeper of oblivion 17:11, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Major problem with the notion is that, though Strong World could only logically have taken place between Thriller Bark And Sabaody, but the situation doesn't completely line up, because Sengoku mentions Shiki during the Impel Down Arc, and no mention is made of his resurfacing. In this situation, we are lead to believe that Shiki, one of the most legendary pirates in the history of the One Piece world, resurfaced after 20 years, attacked Navy HQ, and Nobody in the entire Naval Hierarchy seems the LEAST bit concerned about it?  From watching the movie, I didn't get the hint at all that Sengoku was made aware that Luffy beat Shiki, but if he did that raises another question.  When Sengoku brought up Shiki AND realized who Luffy was, why not mention "Straw Hat took down Shiki too!" or something?  So if the movie is indeed canon, we have to believe one of the following things about it:
 * 1: Sengoku knew Shiki had returned to wreck havoc on the world, he even gave Sengoku a Warning, Yet through the entire Sabaody, Impel Down, and Whitebeard War, and Post War Arcs, he doesn't mention this ONCE even though Shiki himself DOES come up
 * 2: Despite Luffy having taken out such an amazing Threat as Shiki, this gets no mention when the WG realizes that Luffy is in Sabaody, Impel Down, or Marineford? Even though Sengoku made sure to mention a few of the other things Luffy has done?
 * So then we have to ask what exactly did he MEAN by "Last adventure". Was he talking about the movie's placement in the STORYLINE, or was he talking about the time of the Movie's release. (which was in the middle of the War Arc)  The idea being that the War would be Luffy's last adventure as a 17 year old, because it was released at around the same time as the Movie.  So, is it the movie that's his "Last Adventure" or is it Marineford?  The fact that the manga currently appears to be building towards a time-skip seems to lead credence to the latter.
 * I'd say, if there ends up being an honest time-skip, that coupled with Oda's comment would be enough to definitively say Luffy is now "18". (Or 19 if the timeskip turns out to be like 2 yrs, which I think is unlikely)
 * So I'd say; wait just a few chapters until we know where we stand on the topic of a Time-Skip. It's pretty clean if we're getting one, it's happening soonDemonRin 23:49, August 19, 2010 (UTC)