Talk:Fansub

K-F + 4Kids
As I recall when I first went to that site... Didn't they get investigated a couple of summers ago by 4Kids or something. I vaguely remember reading about it. If my memory is correct I'd like to write a note on this page about actions 4Kids have taken against Fansubs. One-Winged Hawk 00:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think they ever actually have... I know people have mentioned it multiple times, but those have all been practical jokes pulled by the admins... Frankly, I doubt it's ever happened; if 4Kids cared, they'd just give 'em a cease and desist order (or whatever it's called), they wouldn't just investigate 'em... I know that's happened with other groups. So, it's possible... but I'm not sure... I'm sure Dythim wouldn't mind answering questions, though, he's pretty much okay to talk to as long as you're polite about it. ^^ --Murasaki 04:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple questions...
Just wondering, how many episodes should a group have before we give them a page? I was thinking 10 or so, but I didn't know what everyone else thought... ^^;;

Also, I don't remember where all our rules are as they're laid out... strangely still, so I'll just ask here: Links to fansub groups are against the rules, right? I'm assuming they're not allowed, but if they are, I thought I'd add the links to the pages, so they'd actually be referenced. XD --Murasaki 02:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think links to the forum is allowed but not to the bit-torrent. A forum is... Well... A forum. But a bit-torrent is a violation of copy-right rules for sure. One-Winged Hawk 07:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But from the forums of the sites, there's a download link normally (I know there is on K-F and Vegapunk, Gerusama never had its own forum, I've never found where ADC's forum actually is), so the links are right there in plain sight... Which is why I was unsure. ^^;; --Murasaki 07:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow... In that case I guess more or less all the forums are taken out. >_<' One-Winged Hawk 08:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Needed
Content and discussion moved to Forum:Fansub Page in order for a poll to take place.

Legal Disclaimer
Because I want to avoid an edit war, I decided to take the matters here. In this edit, I added a disclaimer which explains that the use of fansubs are in fact illegal, and we at the One Piece Wikia do not support piracy (which is kinda ironic). I understand this disclaimer may not be perfect, but I believe it's necessary to have as this is information on an illegal distribution, and it shows our support for the official releases. I don't quite see a reason NOT to have this. Without it, our Wiki can easily be mistaken as one that does support these things (since we don't quite mention ourselves in the article). I request the addition of this disclaimer, as it gives us a good name and makes this page more legal. 04:41, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not completely against it, but it seems rather redundant. The article as it is definitely isn't us "not condoning the use of fansubs". 06:39, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe I'm incorrect in saying the article says we condone fansubs, but it doesn't really say we don't condone fansubs either. I believe this disclaimer is a nice, legal, respective way to show these are illegal, as it is the first thing you see, and it respects and promotes the official translations. 15:23, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

We condone fansubs just by having the article. Maybe it would be different if we removed the names but you would have to open that forum again. SeaTerror (talk) 18:56, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

If we are talking about showing fansubbing's existence while not supporting it publicly, then shouldn't we take an example from another respectable wiki: Naruto? I know Naruto have several subbing groups, but Narutopedia does not even mention them, yet take info from subbing and scanlations, and at the same time keeping legal disclaimer rights and references a priorities. 19:01, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

@SeaTerror: I don't believe mentioning fansubs mean we support them. We mention them to provide information. Rather we like it or not, we need to give out information even if we don't support it. That's an unwritten rule for an unbias encyclopedia. If people think we condone fansubs just by having the article, then that disclaimer should clear things up.

@Yatanogarasu: I don't often visit Narutopedia, but I just did to see what they say about fansubbers and scanlators. Only mention I've found is in the main series page, where they were talking about the fansubs and how they are prosecuted. They still explained that they are still being produced. However, since One Piece has a whole bunch of fansub groups, each one having something else to go into detail about, we've got a page explaining it all. I'm likely wrong on this, but Naruto doesn't quite have as much to talk about when it comes to fansubs. That's why they don't have an article but we do. We go into detail about these subbers, for information purposes. That's why it can be mistaken as us condoning it, so I made that disclaimer. 20:45, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Naruto had more subbers than One Piece due to the anime's popularity in North America. I assume One Piece would have had more if 4Kids never got it. Pretty much fansubbing had a larger impact on One Piece because of K-F and 4Kids which is why the article exists. Anyway Nada it really does condone fansubs due to listing the names. I'm saying you would have to open the forum again if you want the names removed. Having the disclaimer up there is just plain hypocritical. This article needs to be rewritten anyway to make it more neutral. SeaTerror (talk) 21:20, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Having the names do not mean we condone fansubs. Just because you talk about something doesn't mean you agree with it. I don't want the names removed, but let's not get into that. The disclaimer is legal and shows we do not condone it. If you think giving information about something means we condone it, then you need to grab a dictionary. 21:25, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

So is everyone okay with adding the disclaimer? 19:20, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

I already said why we don't need that disclaimer. I told you the issue with the disclaimer is the fact that we list the fansub names. We would need to open the forum again and either revote on it all or a forum to vote on the disclaimer. It would be hypocritical to have the disclaimer while we list the fansub names. It would be like how politicians say one thing to get elected but then do the complete opposite once they are elected. SeaTerror (talk) 20:24, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

That is a terrible analogy. This isn't like that at all. This is like if a politician talked about the rival in their campaign. They're not supporting their rival, they're just giving information. We're not supporting fansubs by mentioning their names, we're giving information on them. Information does not mean support. 20:30, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to add it if there are no objections, k? 02:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

You already had plenty of objections to it. SeaTerror (talk) 03:16, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

And I've been responding to them, but they keep being left hanging. I just want a valid reason NOT to have this disclaimer. I've explained how we don't condone fansubs, so don't tell me we do again. 03:27, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

You may think we don't but it is a fact we actually do. There were even links at one point. If the page was only about what fansubs were without any names then we wouldn't be condoning them. SeaTerror (talk) 04:14, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

How does mentioning names mean we support them? We're giving information, not supporting. If we were supporting them, we would be telling people these are the best ways to watch it. That's not what we're doing. We're simply giving information. 04:19, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Giving information on racism doesn't make it racist. Giving information on religion doesn't make it religious. Giving information on humor doesn't make it funny. Giving information on piracy doesn't make it piracy. I don't know how many times this needs to be explained, and I don't know how many times you're going to keep this being ignored. If you don't respond, that's just acting like you have nothing more to say, so the discussion should be closed. 19:00, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

We already went through this before. It lists actual fansubber names instead of just saying what fansubbing is. If it was just what saying fansubbing is then it wouldn't be promoting piracy. Other than that, nowhere on the forum was voting for a Funimation disclaimer voted on. SeaTerror (talk) 19:15, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Because nobody proposed it. And I just explained many times how listing fansubbers do not support piracy. Many users in that forum explain how listing fansubbers do not support piracy. You keep ignoring this page when I explain how listing fansubbers do not support piracy. Could you explain to me how any of the points I've made are false, and that it is supporting piracy? 21:04, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

You didn't explain anything. All you said were unrelated things like "giving information on racism doesn't make it racist". I already explained numerous times how this page promotes piracy. We do not need the disclaimer and if we were going to put it up it would have had to be on that forum anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 23:38, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

That forum was talking about a completely unrelated topic on the page. Those "unrelated" things are called analogies. It means to clarify something by comparing another. Just like talking about racism doesn't make it racist, talking about piracy doesn't make it pirate. You shouldn't have to have analogies explained to you. You're not "explaining" how this page supports piracy, because all you're saying is that listing the names means we are, which I've already told how it doesn't. Mentioning names does NOT mean we support piracy. Do you even read what I write? If we supported piracy, we wouldn't need official pages like FUNimation, Viz, or Toei. I don't know how much more clearer I need to be for you. Please explain how this page promotes piracy other than "we're mentioning names", because that argument is moot at this point. 00:29, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

I know what an analogy is. I also know what a bad analogy is. You're trying to compare two completely different things in your analogies. The argument is not moot just because you think it is. Racism is not the same as listing the names of fansub groups so people could know where to commit piracy. Listing a name of a fansub group is helping people pirate. If this page just explained what fansubs were without any names then it would not promot piracy. People also mentioned a disclaimer on that forum but it never was on the vote. The disclaimer thing should have been on the vote but it never was. Which means it should not be added since it wasn't on the vote. SeaTerror (talk) 00:48, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

You clearly don't understand the analogy. It's saying how just because you talk about something does not mean you support it. I'm not comparing racism with naming fansub groups. I don't see how you could possibly get that idea. I even got that analogy from the forum itself; it's not my words. The disclaimer could still be added. It was brought up in the forum, but was never talked about in full. That doesn't mean it can't be added later. Once again, mentioning fansubs name don't mean we support them. They mention criminal names in crime shows, does that mean they support them? No, it means they're giving information on them. We're giving information on these fansubbers. Not supporting. 01:02, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

You really don't get it? The analogies are completely different than what this discussion is about. Your last analogy was much better and closer to what it was about. It should have been discussed on the forum but it wasn't so it shouldn't be put up. Screw it, we should just poll this stupid thing and get it over with. SeaTerror (talk) 01:13, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

That last analogy is more literally close to the fansub, but it still all conveys the same point: Just because you talk about something doesn't mean you support it. It's a little confusing how you connected the last one with fansubs but not the others. It wasn't discussed in the forum because the forum wasn't about the disclaimer. It was about having links in the article. Just because it wasn't completely discussed doesn't mean it can't be added later. So stop bringing up the forum because it has nothing to do with this. This doesn't need a poll because it's only two users who are discussing it, if you can really call this a discussion. I don't know how many times I need to explain to you that mentioning something doesn't mean you support it. We're giving information on fansubbers and groups. Promoting would be if we told them it was a better option on all fronts, and gave a link to each. This page doesn't have that, so we are not supporting them. We are giving information on it. Giving information does not mean support. They're two totally different things. Now, read this paragraph again. 01:35, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Critique about the 'Failures of FUNimation'
I think the part criticising FUNimation for failing to distribute should be removed, on the basis that they have not recieved to rights yet to make a dub for the Saboady Arc, or ANY ARC in the White Beard Saga. And currently, they are working on the Dub for the Water 7 Arc and the rest of the CP9 Saga. I feel it is unnecassary, and kind of comes off as angry a spiteful towards FUNimation, unless they meant to say 'sub' and not 'dub'.

- DOPE|Come on, sit down 19:46, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. 02:01, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

I've refixed it to be less harsh towards FUNImation, and basically say that they haven't released these episodes yet. It's valid information. 02:11, February 14, 2013 (UTC)