Talk:Shyarly

"Madame" or "Madam"
Why having redirected "Madam Shirley" to "Madame Shirley"? Since Shirley is an English name, I can't see any reason to use the French word, have I missed something? sff9 (talk) 13:49, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, KingLuffy1 and I accidentially made a page for her at the same time. He spelled his without an E and I spelled with an E (this page). Since mine was already organized with completed sections, we agreed that it would be easier to just use mine rather than go through the hassle of redirecting it to a page that already exists (a MAJOR pain in the butt if you aren't aware), so he made his a candidate for deletion. If you want full details, check our talk pages under Madame Shirley. Either one is acceptable when refering to fortunetellers so there really is no problem.DancePowderer 16:27, January 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope, wasn't aware this was even slightly annoying! Didn't know Madame was used in English either. Well, thanks and sorry to have bothered you! sff9 (talk) 22:09, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

While it is traditionally French, it does have some uses in English, and no worries, bro. You didn't bother me at all.DancePowderer 22:36, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

Age?
Where are we getting her age from? For all we know she could be 20-29. Is 25 your way of literally splitting the difference just so you can have an age in her profile? That's stupid. People are going to get confused since the only thing we have to work from so far is the fact that, once past 30, a mermaids lower half splits into new fins. You can't just throw things in like that. If you're unsure about it, then just wait or leave it blank. Don't fuck it up and make it stupid by guessing. Jack asses.


 * Dan (ETZ) 5:02 March 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know how a wiki works, right? If you spot an error, you're supposed to correct it yourself. Insulting people is useless and just makes you more ridiculous when you're wrong.


 * If you had bothered to edit the article yourself, you would have seen Angel's comment next to Shirley's age, stating she was alive 25 years ago, since she predicted the Golden Age of Piracy one year before it began.


 * I'm adding a reference, since your criticism was legit. sff9 (talk) 10:36, March 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Listen "Dan", "Daniel" or Dantheman32 (whatever), if you want people to take you seriously, you shouldn't swear or curse when you've got something to say! Using the correct way to add a new section on a talk page to discuss a new subject could also help you too, so don't act like a "jackass", especially when you make such a broad statement!


 * The age number was first added by a random IP user as 25-30, was changed by another one to 25-29, after that some other made it 27 and to make a long story short, Angel left a message explaining why it should be "25 or more" with Sff9 adding a reference the proper way. So, before you start sprouting nonsense or making random accusations do your research and if you need help ask politely in the talk page of the article in question or ask directly some of the regular editors here, it's not something difficult to do. Don't make such a broad insult again though! Sff9 has already explained it to you how a wiki works so I don't have anything else to add, have a nice day. MasterDeva 11:01, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Romanization
I think that Shirley is a wrong romanization because when the Strawhats leave the fortuneteller's place, there is the beginning of a name written, which is SHYAR. So I guess it is more something like Shyarley than Shirley.LordRayleigh 14:31, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

True, and you are most likely right, but we don't know if that is actually the building they came out of. It could be something else. It is best to leave the name as is until we have a better confirmation.DancePowderer 15:52, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

However, shouldn't this page be named simply "Shirley"? In addiction, doing in this way we would remove the problem "madame vs madam". --Meganoide 00:47, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

It might be part of her name. When she was outside going crazy about Luffy destroying the island, some guy said "It's madam from the Mermaid Cafe." That would suggest that Madam is part of her actual name, and not just a job description.DancePowderer 05:53, January 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you know "madame" refers to a proprietress of a bar or something in Japanese? --Klobis 06:08, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

I did not. I knew it was the title for fortune tellers and brothel managers, but not a restaurant proprietress in Japanese. Still, she has never been refered to as just "Shirley."DancePowderer 06:29, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

At this point, it's clearly not Shirley. The new episode uses Shyarly, both Viz and Funimation use Sharley. Either of those should be used, so why were my revisions summarily undone? Batwing321 03:40, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, why were my revisions undone? Really, it's not Shirley, it's Shyarly. "Shyar" was used in the manga, and now, in today's episode, we see the full "Shyarly". Who keeps editing this article back to Shirley? HomunculusPride 03:49, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

That would be me.. Cause in the manga the romanization was S-h-i-r-l-e-y..

Where? All we saw in the manga was "Shyar", and with the "lee" sound at the end of her name, we can assume her name is "Shyarly". HomunculusPride 03:54, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Her name is romanized as "Shari", to which the closest english translation is Shirley. Until we have better information, we aren't changing it. 03:56, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

What further information is needed, exactly? The signboard in the manga cut off at "Shyar-", and the anime clarified it as "Shyarly", both in English. The romanization of the katakana can work as "Shirley", "Shyarly", "Sharley", or even "Shaarii", but again, the anime clearly spells it out in English as "Shyarly", and while the anime is not infallible, it corroborates with what Oda started with. A new spelling in the manga or databook could dispute that in the future, but "Shirley" in English has never appeared either; it's merely what a few people chose to romanize it as in the fansubs and on this Wiki. The fact is that the current evidence clearly points to "Shirley" being much more speculative than "Shyarly" is. Batwing321 04:26, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

It's true that the sign has her name written on it, and it's written SHYAR. But that's not necessarily a reason to change it from Shirley to Shyarly. Given the number of characters in One Piece, it'd be understandable if Oda looked up a name, wrote it down in kana, and later forgot how it was originally spelled. He might not have been able to find his source, or even cared that much, when it came time for the episode to be made; the romanji spelling doesn't matter as much for the Japanese version. But we do know that Oda does tend to use names that already exist, and Shirley is the most obvious candidate so far. In the end either way could be considered correct. Shouchinosuke 06:01, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me on what basis Shirley was chosen in the first place? And why this argumentation is stronger then ''"Shyar-..." (manga) + "Shyarly" (anime)''? Because it seems to me the lately we encounter a lot of cases where we keep the initial romanization (chosen by us) over some clues that pop ups later in the manga, because until the "clues" found on the official sources are definitively proven we think that our conjecture are safer. I don't really understand this, because conjecture for conjecture, I prefer a conjecture based on "official clues". Let me be clear: I am not fixed to use Shyarly, but these discussions seems to me a bit contradictory to both their reasons and what we usually (meaning: for what I understood...) did on this wiki about issues like these. We can take this to a forum if necessary (I don't want bring up any polemics or any votes, because I don't know on what we can vote, just a good talk where we can think this through).

I really see no point in this argument. Shyarly has more official sources rather than "Shirley" which is a complete speculation. I don't see why there is a need to keep the name as Shirley, which has no base in the first place. We cannot speculate the spelling just from the way it is pronounced. Even in america, there are several names with common pronunciations and unusual spellings, such as "Michala" as "Mikela" or "Eric" as "Erick" or "Arick" (these names do exist) and Oda as well may have wanted to give her name a unique taste to it. The madame talk is nonsense, for that is like naming sombody "sensei" just because all his students call him that. In japan, calling someone by their job name is as common as calling your parents mom and dad. 16:33, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

The anime is not canon so it doesn't matter what the name uses. Hell it was probably just the fansubbers who used that romanization anyway. SeaTerror 18:29, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

The anime may not be canon but it isn't heretic and we are not more reliable then the anime. When an information is found only in the anime we should take at least in account, but the important difference is if the scene is canon or not, because the anime doesn't add wrong information in "canon" scenes. It wasn't used by the fansubbers because the sign was in the actual image and it wasn't edited. Keep in mind that there is always the "Shyar-..." from the manga, so at least we know that "Shirley" is definitely wrong.


 * The rule has always been; Manga -> SbS -> data books -> anime -> other
 * So long as the wikia follows that order it doesn't matter. If there later comes a source from further down that chain of ranking of legitablity, then the wikia simply alters it accordingl.  Every wikia is a work in progress, which means we're not without faults, all we can do is work to the best of our abilities. 20:57, December 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Then there should be no problems in using Shyarly by this logic.


 * Unless someone brings up a higher ranked source then the anime, the anzswer to that is "yes". Still, you might get resistance on that anyway from the other editors.  Just a note. One-Winged Hawk 21:34, December 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Of course things must be discussed, but I just wanted to check if it was so strange thinking of renaming the page in this case.

renaming
I've been thinking, I think it should just be Shirley. Madame is just a title. We can still call her Madame Shirley in the articles, but for the title of the article itself, I think just Shirley would be correct. 17:58, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Agree, yeah.. 22:34, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, now we know that madame is just a title. Can you imagine Arlog saying "my name is actually Madame Arlong"? Bwahahahah! :-) --Meganoide 23:20, July 12, 2011 (UTC)