Forum:Colored Manga Images

Hello all.

Oda's team has started coloring all the chapters so there has been an issue with the cover pages. The colored chapters are not online yet so we don't have access to many of them. A new user updated five chapter covers with colored ones but MasterDeva reverted the image and said we have to upload them separately. However, as discussed in chat most of us disagree and believe we must just update the current chapter covers since unless we do that, we will have to create a switch for the chapter pages with will be very inconvenient. But I didn't want to start edit wars so I uploaded 6 image separately and created a category about them till we decide what to do with those pictures. 22:47, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
I'll say it... they're just fancolor. You can see how random they choose the cover to color and X Drake... well, he's pretty clear took randomly too. so, can you give us any reference or proof about that being "Oda's team" works? 22:52, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I have proof but you'd better ask Gal to explain since he has the Japanese text that says it. 22:54, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Replacing the black and white with coloured versions would be the easiest option and the best option. It saves time creating a template and then applying the switch on page and having to add the photo along with it. -- 22:57, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. 22:58, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

If they're official, that means we're obligated to have them as a wiki devoted to everything One Piece related. That doesn't mean we should value them more than the original versions, just that we should have the color versions as well. It actually wouldn't be a lot of work to add them all as a switch template, as images in chapter infoboxes are now automated. All we need to do is edit the chapter box template and make sure the color versions are uploaded with the right file name, and the wiki will do most of the work for us. Since it's not that much work, we should just have both. 03:10, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and since these color versions of the chapters are coming out, we should probably have an article or some information about them somewhere on the wiki. 03:12, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm fine with having colored images, but is a switch template really necessary? They're not really that different except for color. We can just have the colored images replace it. 03:15, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Put them on here Cover_Page. The chapter articles should only use the original covers. SeaTerror (talk) 03:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

On a sidenote this is the message the uploader left. "Colored version from the digital "Color edition" put out by Shueisha. You can find color volumes 1-65 on Amazon.co.jp, Kinokuniya, and other digital booksellers. The normal black/white is labeled as a "Monochrome version." It says put out by Shueisha so do we even know if Oda colored them himself? SeaTerror (talk) 03:48, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Regardless if Oda did it, if it comes from an official source (Shueisha, in this case), then that might be something we could take. 04:20, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

If they weren't colored by Oda then we shouldn't use them as an "official" source. They should still be uploaded. SeaTerror (talk) 05:54, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Upload them somewhere, whatever. But the chapter pages should still have the original pictures. So either use the switch or do like ST suggested and put the color versions on the Cover Page article. 07:21, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Let's use a switch template then. 08:47, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I support the switch, but also poll if we should use them to replace some low detail anime images. 13:39, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Of course we will. 13:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

A switch is better than putting them on Cover Page because the table for color spreads there is already huge and hard to deal with, especially when you need to see all the covers, or when you're looking for a broken file link. And they would be way easier to find on each chapter's article. 14:23, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

True that. 14:26, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh god, not another friggin' switch template. Here's an idea, since their colorer seems to be the subject of argument, how about we hold off on going update crazy (again) until we learn more about this? 15:13, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

They're published by Shueisha. They're on the same level, if not higher then the anime. 15:16, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

They still look like someone from deviantart did them. Using them just because they're in color would be like driving with your feet. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a good idea. 15:25, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Except they look way better and more polished. 15:27, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I replace black and white manga images with colored ones. If galaxy replaces anime images, I will revert him. You seriously prefer the black and white pics for the infoboxes when we have access to colored ones? 15:30, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

You're being hypocritical Staw, since you also replaced numerous anime images. There shouldn't be a problem replacing anime images further down the road if the colored manga version is of higher quality. I've seen plenty of talk pages where people voted anime over manga simply because of the color. 15:32, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

No no Gal. I didn't replace any anime images. I uploaded them for the history and the reverted. 15:33, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Some of them, like that one with X Drake you showed me, are completely half-assed. I cite that picture because only the people in it are colored. Everything else is still black and white. I would rather have black and white than something that looks like it was colored by a fanboy. I'm willing to bet that Drake pic isn't the only one either. There are bound to be more half-assed ones like it out there, you're gonna want to upload them just because they're "more polished". This is one of the few times where the images actually look crappier in color. 15:37, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I think they look like crap. 15:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

{Edit Conflict)I don't have access to those images and gal linked me on chat but all the images I replaced (that are not more than 5) are manga infobox images with black and white colors. You said you don't like the colors. If you don't like the colors of a specific image just revert. But when we have the possibility to replace the black and white images with colored ones in general, why not do it. I know that there will be many stupid images not good enough to be used but if there are only 10 or 20 of them, we shouldn't stop updating the black and white pics in general. I know they look kinda like fanart but that's because you are used to Oda's drawings and those are not drawn by Oda., but they will improve the site's appearance. 15:45, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I can only see the color images creating conflicts. Even if it's just ten or twenty as you say, that's ten to twenty edit wars we're going to have to deal with, minimum. It's better to just not use them. People are going to think they're fanart because they were colored digitally and in some cases rather poorly. We would be better off avoiding the whole problem if we just didn't use them. I can only see bad things happening if we decide to use even some of them. 15:52, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Kuro could do a better job colouring those. They're awful. 15:54, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with DP. 15:55, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Poll it then. Gonna have to use a bunch of different options though.

Should we use colored manga images over black and white images (if quality allows).

Should we use colored manga images over anime images (if it's better quality).

Should we upload colored manga image chapter covers?

Should we create a switch for them, or put them on the cover page page?

16:22, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

You neglected to add the option to not use them at all. 16:27, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Poll hasn't been made yet anyways, but I was thinking of the big options. It will be included in the poll. 16:29, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

There should not be a switch template at all nor should the the originals get replaced. I already linked to the proper article for them. SeaTerror (talk) 16:39, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

We should make two polls, one for the chapter covers and one for the colored images. 18:21, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

DP look at the X Drake image again. It is fully in color. That's when Drake is at Kaido's base, and therefore it's snowing and dark. You can see the coloring in it. here's the manga for reference. You can see that they color the whole image here and even here.

I'm gonna draft the poll below. 20:26, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Even if they did color the whole thing, they still did a bad job of it. 20:33, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

This is how I would word it:

First Poll: Will we use the colored chapter covers and how? We won't use them at all. We will make a switch template and use both the colored and the black and white version We will replace the black and white versions with colored versions

Second Poll: Will we use the colored images to replace others and how? We won't use them at all We will only replace black and white infoboxes We will replace every image when the quality is higher. 20:34, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Let's not talk about replacing the anime yet. The anime actually does look better in some cases, and there are quite a few colored manga that don't look very good. If we're going to poll this, let's let the anime in a second subject. Not all images should be replaced. 21:47, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but the poll should include that option. Only Gal will vote it anyway. 21:49, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

The poll should ask "Can colored manga images replace anime if they're better then them". I see no reason why nobody would vote for this. 14:44, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Cause they won't be better than the anime images. 15:19, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

They might be. You don't know. 20:20, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Not more than 10. 20:21, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Wrong, since you still don't know. 20:22, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Because sometimes the anime will still look better than the manga. Not all the time, but there will be anime images that are better. 20:22, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Dude we will only replace extremely LQ anime images. 20:25, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, the poll is way better now, shall we open it? 20:26, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

I have yet to see a source that states the images were coloured by Oda himself and not by some random person. As evidenced here (original colour) in comparison with here (digitally coloured) the colour palette used is different that the one Oda is using. This is understandable since it takes a lot of effort to create colour covers or double spreads, which can be translated from many hours to a few days. Hence the reason why we don't get them much often.

Not using Oda makes sense in that regard since it would help to ease his work load instead of adding to it. Still though, the difference is obvious. Since the coloured versions originate from Shueisha we, as a One Piece wiki, are required to illustrate them but not use them to replace the original manga material. An exception to this would the monochrome version, only if (and I'm assuming here) they are unedited digital copies of the manga. MasterDeva (talk) 10:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

About the chapter covers, since they are definitely gonna be used on the wiki, and if they are added in the cover page the page will become really huge, I suggest creating a page about every single volume, where we will add all the information about the specific volume and all the colored chapter covers of the volume. If we do that, we will have medium sized pages and the navigation will be way easier. there is also a discussion about separating the volume pages on this talk page so I thought it would be a great idea to do that since unless we do that both the chapters and volumes page and the cover page will be too huge and inconvenient. 19:51, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we didn't quite have all the information needed to start this poll, but whatever. My main concern is using them with a switch template on chapter pages, where the black and white version is default. I don't think the wiki would allow us to even add 710 images to one page, whether it's Cover Page or a brand new one. That's just way too much data for one page, let alone how confusing the interface would be. I don't see the harm in adding them to chapter articles via a switch template. It makes them easier to find, and it doesn't create any difficulties in editing since the switch template is automated. And as the non-default version, people don't even have to look at them unless they click on the switch tab. It doesn't take away from the chapter articles to have them there. 19:53, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * If there are technical issues involved, I wouldn't have a problem if the switch option was used for the images. As long the original version is the default one that is. We could use them in the chapter articles. First and foremost though, we need to clarify the limits of the over page article before we go down that path. MasterDeva (talk) 20:21, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

They weren't done by Oda which is why they do not belong on chapter articles. SeaTerror (talk) 19:55, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Who said we can't have things that weren't done by Oda in chapter articles? It's Official One Piece releases of the chapters, I don't see why we can't have them on the chapter articles. They're official. 19:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah JSD I agree that adding them in the chapter pages with a switch template is the best solution but apparently the other users disagree so the solution I suggested is the best solution possible since we will have 70 new medium sized pages were people can find all the information about the specific volume and it's the perfect place to add the colored chapter covers. Creating 70 pages is not that hard after all and that talk page never decided what to do with the volume pages. 20:07, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It's not their legitmacy that's in question, it's their appearance. Frankly, they look like crap. They look like something you could find on deviantart. Some of them aren't even totally colored, but just had the contrast changed. Someone at Shueisha just used the color fill tool to excess on these. 20:09, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

"Some of them aren't even totally colored". Give me an example. 20:13, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Like that X Drake one you're so fond of. If you look, some of the backgrounds merely had their contrasts altered rather than color being inserted. 20:16, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Here. They forgot to color the sky on a few panels. I don't even draw and I'm disappointed at that. 20:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It's snow. 20:18, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The sky wasn't supposed to be colored in that Nada. They only color things that were supposed to be colored in the black and white manga. Usually, sky comes in when there are clouds in the sky. 20:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

So what, the sky just disappears? No, let's not make up excuses for them. It's inconsistent coloring. 20:26, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Not really. It's supposed to have a white background. It's more about the focus on Whitebeard's ability. 20:30, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oda didn't color it either. 20:33, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Official when it comes to chapters ONLY means Oda. SeaTerror (talk) 20:44, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oda doesn't color anything except for some intros of the chapter. The thing is that these new colors look bad because they never were supposed to be colored! They were made to be in black and white. So if you tried coloring it, there's so little shading or contrast that it looks terrible. 20:46, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, let's cancel the poll since the discussion isn't over yet. 20:53, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

What more discussion could we possibly have? The poll was made because people kept going back and forth over what they think is better. 20:54, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

As you can see the discussion isn't over and more options were suggested, so we should cancel the poll till the discussion is over. 20:56, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

yeah, cancel it. 21:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. We should discuss this properly first before we decide on what the best option is. MasterDeva (talk) 21:09, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Great, I will cancel it then. 21:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

So here's how I believe we should word the new poll

Poll 1:

Will we use the colored chapter images to replace others? Yes No

Poll 2:

How will we use the colored cover pages?

We won't use them at all.

We will add them on the chapter pages with a switch template

We will add them in the Cover Page

We will create pages for every volume where we will add both the colored chapter covers and all the other information about the volumes.

Do you like it? 07:33, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I guess it's good. 16:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's redundant to have a "not use them at all" option in a poll separate from using them. There should be one poll that asks IF we should use them in any way. We can determine their overall use later. 17:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, let's make a poll about whether we will use them or not and when that poll is over, we will make another one about how to use them 19:14, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

We should be sure to link the discussion to the Chapters and Volumes talk then, as that is where that issue is discussed. And while not related to the issue of colored manga images, that's where my alternative solution to having volume articles (creating redirects for every volume that send you to the right part of the chapters and volume page) is proposed as well.

And we should take everyone's signatures off the canceled poll, since that's a lot of space here, and it's kind of confusing. Just put an update in the community messages that states the first poll was cancelled when the new one starts. 14:28, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

But even if we make redirects, it will not be useful for the colored chapter covers.

P.s i removed the entire poll since i don't see a reason why it should stay here. 14:34, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

We don't remove that stuff. Its for archival purposes. SeaTerror (talk) 18:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Shall I go ahead and make the first poll? 21:05, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Please do. 03:35, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

The poll is still badly worded. "Should we use the colored manga images to replace other image?" It should state "Should we allow them to replace other images, with discussion?" 13:12, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Change it then. 13:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I think people get the idea Gal. I'm sorry not everyone's English is as good as yours, but it's not everyone's first language.-- 13:20, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

SHB, I seriously hate it when people insult and offend other people indirectly. It's just not cool bro. 13:23, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

How was that insulting or offending him? I was merely pointing out that people clearly understand what the poll means and that not everyone's English is perfect, especially when it's their second language. Oh and don't bro me. 13:39, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's not meant to say people are stupid for not understanding it, it's just to make it as clear as possible, so people don't think we're going to replace them ALL with the images. 13:42, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

So pointing out "that not everyone's English is perfect" isn't offensive? 13:47, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

No.  13:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Good job, bro! 13:54, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Lelouch stop. Now. 13:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Fine. 14:01, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to not have followed the discussion very closely, but can someone point me to a source acknowledging these pics as official? Could not find any in the forum, and it's a major element in the decision.

They're available for download from Japanese Amazon. Shueisha is listed as the publisher. 17:29, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. OK, so there's actually nothing new. Shueisha has been doing this with a lot of mangas apparently. I doubt Oda has anything to do with that, he's got other things to do than supervising computer colorization for the e-book market… Plus, while I found the colored digital volumes on Amazon, I couldn't find the pics XScar uploaded. I suppose he took them directly from the volumes he bought. How are we supposed to check that they are not fanart? To sum up: 1. nothing new anyway, 2. work of some random colorists unlikely supervised by Oda, 3. hard to check for validity.

I find it funny that nearly all of you comment on the colored manga without seeing/knowing exactly what they are. I also find it weird that you guys would use the anime images, which are definitely not done by Oda, but then write the colored manga off simply because Oda might not have colored it all himself. At least with the manga, they come from his staff -- people who are around him and aware and knowledgeable about how things should be done and colored. The coloring follows any other manga colors we've seen up to this point. For example, Pearl is orange/white like he is on the volume eight cover -- not purple/black like the anime.

I also think it's weird that you have colored manga chapter covers, such as on Chapter 22 ("Hey, look! The sky is white, that's so unprofessional!"), but then somehow think this looks/is different. (And just to let you know, the background on the Drake picture was white because Drake was in a snowy location. I truly believe this all really well done.)

I seriously hope you guys consider using them. Colored pages are already used on some chapter pages, and I think having a full colored manga model would be nice to compare the anime/manga colorings. XScar (talk) 07:42, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

We should at least use them to replace monochrome manga images. 07:46, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently being done by Shueisha = Oda's staff. Didn't know Oda owned his own publishing company. SeaTerror (talk) 16:40, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

At least Oda provided the stencils for this one. 16:52, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

People keep calling them official, they're not. It's a completely different publishing company that is only doing it for e books. Also the colors are nothing like what they should be. NOT official. 16:58, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

It's the same publishing company SHB. Shueisha. 16:59, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I also find it sad that we will be unable to add the images to galleries, in order to show the color scheme differences that exist. We're supposed to include EVERYTHING One Piece. 17:03, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

My bad. 17:06, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Then give the their own page. 17:07, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

No way to do that now, since the poll is already underway. 17:08, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

The poll is about using them to replace other images. There's nothing in here saying they can't be uploaded as their own image. 17:10, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Ok... so would anyone object to allowing them to be placed in the galleries, as separate images? 17:13, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

That's a good plan. 17:17, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Poll 1 states that covers wouldn't be allowed to be uploaded though. If no wins on that, they won't be able to be uploaded at all, not even on their own page. 17:18, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

As long as they are not on chapter articles then I guess its fine. SeaTerror (talk) 17:19, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Poll 1
This poll was canceled because the issue was not properly discussed.

This poll will decide whether we should use the colored version volume images on our wiki at all. The poll is now open. It will close on June 8 at 20:00 UTC. To vote you must have at least 300 edits and be a registered user for at least three months.

Should we allow the use of colored manga images from the digital volumes in order to replace normal images?

1. Yes
 * 1)  20:32, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  20:34, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  20:36, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) SeaTerror (talk) 21:37, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) -- 22:26, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  22:43, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  09:15, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) If it is 100% proven that those are legit images.  10:21, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  19:56, May 26, 2013 (UTC) If the importance of color schemes is "Manga>Anime>Colored Manga" I'm fine with this.
 * 10)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

2. No
 * 1)  20:43, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  23:49, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  00:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  03:01, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5) MasterDeva (talk) 03:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  10:59, May 26, 2013 (UTC) (not replacement, even if 100% official.)

Poll 2
How should we implement the colored chapter covers onto the pages?

1. Create a switch template on the chapter pages.
 * 1)  20:33, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  20:34, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  20:36, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  22:44, May 25, 2013 (UTC) we should also have the 'original'
 * 5)  09:15, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  19:54, May 26, 2013 (UTC) If original is default, there's no harm. We can't have 710 huge files on one page.

2. Add them to the Cover Page page.
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 21:37, May 25, 2013 (UTC) (or a new article for them and they do not belong on chapter articles)
 * 2)  22:27, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  00:03, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  00:14, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  00:17, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  03:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7) MasterDeva (talk) 03:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  10:22, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  10:25, May 26, 2013 (UTC) Make them a sub-page of the Cover Page article, like we did with the Galleries of the Straw Hat crew members.
 * 10)  11:05, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  20:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

3. Do not upload the colored chapter covers.

4. Replace the old Black and White covers.
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
This poll will decide whether we will use the colored manga images or not. This poll in now open and will close June 24, 17:00 UTC. To vote you must be a registered user for at least three months and have at least 300 edits. The options are below.

Poll 1
Should we use the colored chapter covers on this wiki?

This poll was extended because it resulted in a tie

Yes

 * 1)  11:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:08, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 15:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 19:19, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:26, June 13, 2013 (UTC) They're official (See recent conversation for proof of that), we need to acknowledge them in some form as a wiki devoted to One Piece.
 * 1) MasterDeva (talk) 17:01, June 20, 2013 (UTC) (In the light of recent events, I'm changing my vote to yes.)
 * 17:26, June 13, 2013 (UTC) They're official (See recent conversation for proof of that), we need to acknowledge them in some form as a wiki devoted to One Piece.
 * 1) MasterDeva (talk) 17:01, June 20, 2013 (UTC) (In the light of recent events, I'm changing my vote to yes.)

No

 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:49, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14:49, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 16:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:28, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Official or not, they look terrible.)
 * 17:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (as Nada said)
 * 1)  (hard to check for officiality)
 * 21:16, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 00:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) - As Sff9 said. We cannot even check if those already uploaded are the original, how are we suppose to distinguish future ones from fanarts?
 * 3) Genocyber (talk) 04:02, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * MasterDeva (talk) 21:10, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Too little information currently known.)
 * MasterDeva (talk) 21:10, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Too little information currently known.)

Poll 2
Should we allow the colored manga images to replace other images, with discussion?

'This poll is closed. We will not use the images to replace others.'

Yes

 * 1)  11:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 12:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC) As long as they are of good quality.
 * 1) (Why isn't there a "without discussion"?)
 * 15:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:20, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:38, May 30, 2013 (UTC) In the vast majority of cases, they would be inferior, but we have some terrible images out there.
 * 1)  19:19, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

No

 * 1) Genocyber (talk) 10:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:31, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:38, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:43, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:45, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:47, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:08, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:25, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 16:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:33, May 29, 2013 (UTC) (Wait, if this option wins, will they be used at all?)
 * 17:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  (Nada, they would be used for example on Cover Page, I suppose… Not to replace other pics)
 * 2) MasterDeva (talk) 21:10, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:16, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 19:19, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 19:19, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Tell me if I missed it, but where are the evidences that: Why do you even started a poll without providing these two evidences? This is like adding informations on the wiki from spoilers found on a forum. In my opinion, they are fan-made because they are clearly digitally colored, plus the basic images looks like the scans we have on this wiki.
 * 1) Someone people other than fans started to color chapter covers.
 * 2) Those images are indeed the ones and not fan-made (where they were downloded from? Who uploded them in the first place?)

The vote isn't over yet, so I don't know why you've labeled this section "post vote", Levi.

I haven't been able to find anything super-concrete, but I a quick google search found this. I think the problem of proof comes from the fact that these are only available digitally in Japan, and I at least can't find them easily, though I'm sure other users will be more capable. And my understanding is that Shueisha is being cheap about it and is digitally coloring the images, hence their "fan-made" appearance. 16:49, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't mean anything deep with naming this section "post vote". Eventually, the vote will end anyway, since the poll was already opened it felt a little weird to continuing posting in the discussion section. If you want you can move the text. My point is like we wait for the actual chapter release to post new informations, I don't understand why we should upload these images if the two points I made are not cleared up first. Enve just a news about Jump releasing a re-print of one piece or something like that will be enough. The link you posted doesn't prove anything, it simply says you can read one piece online, and before you says "the image is colored", it can be one from the actual manga since the first ones after the color spreads are often also colored. And most of all, doesn't prove the ones being uploaded are indeed the official ones.

They are not fanart or anything. They are published by Shueisha. 19:19, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Can I ask why do you believe that? Did you read a news somewhere? And by the way, where did you downloaded them from?

Amazon says that Shueisha publishes the colored chapters. And I didn't download those image, I don't have access to them, Galaxy did and he linked me on chat. 21:11, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Can you give some links? Because this is exactly when you heard/read the famous words "Oda said this and that". As wikians, we should know the importance of references, so if we have some reliable sources we can actually start discussing if using them or not. I don't understand why a poll was started without even be certain of this. By the way, with links I mean links to reliable websites mentioning this project or actually showing the images.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/ONE-PIECE-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9DIGITAL-ebook/dp/B00ASZ0HA0/ref=sr_1_5?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1370124657&sr=1-5&keywords=one+piece Here's but one example. The ones they have colored stretch well into the 50's. 22:14, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Shueisha also has a JUMP app for Android/iOS where you can buy all the volumes as well. Here's a link from the JUMP website about it. The #4 bubble on the right talks about the full color versions. XScar (talk) 22:51, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, finally! Thank you.

It may have been done by Shueisha but we know for a fact that it wasn't done by Oda. SeaTerror (talk) 00:57, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

True. We can't even say for sure if he had any involvement in it. 01:00, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, now that we have some harder evidence, someone who is knowledgeable should make a page or section about these. We kinda need to acknowledge their existence in a real article, not just this forum... 01:37, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

No need to go that far. We can just add them to the manga page. 01:46, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Where are you getting your "fact"ual information that none of it was done by Oda?XScar (talk) 03:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Definitely don't belong on the manga page either. Already long enough as it is. Cover Page or a new article would work fine. It is damn obvious Oda didn't do it because it was all digitially redone. If Oda had done it himself then the art would be much better. SeaTerror (talk) 03:09, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

He also would have been credited for it somewhere. He also probably would have done them by hand and not digitally. 03:20, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

He's credited on the front cover and inside info page just like always. There's no one else's name on the book at all. You cannot say it's a fact that he didn't do any of it -- what you're doing is speculation.

I still don't understand how you think it looks bad/doesn't look like Oda. As I noted above, [[Chapter 22] looks just like this in terms of coloring. The art is exactly the same, so I have no idea what you think has "been redone" to make it look worse. Would you like more samples?

I understand the unlikelihood that Oda colored every single thing, or even the majority -- that's absurd. He doesn't even do everything in the normal chapters (yet you guys use those images without batting an eye too). Each panel isn't going to look like a color walk coloring -- that would overly time consuming. But totally writing these off makes no sense, especially when it's official and things like the anime are in use here.XScar (talk) 04:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

I can't vote, but I believe we should add them because they are official, we are using anime in this wiki even if Oda didn't draw the anime, so it doesn't make any sense to leave them. we should work hard to provide OP fans with everything about OP, we are working for OP fans so being lazy won't be a good choice, if we are working to add just what we like so we can do whatever we want. Brain.Y.Z (talk) 07:53, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't about using or ignoring them entirely, it was about giving them priority over images already in use by updating the files with them. That's what a lot of people were against; not that they were being used, but how they were being used. I am sure that if they were simply added to a gallery as their own image, there would be far fewer objections. 16:42, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

That's right, although we confirmed them not being fan arts, I personally saw them as merchandise-related things or a web-comic version of the manga. They have nothing to do with the manga. About what you said, it's true I personally wouldn't mind using them on their own page, but what exactly the poll is asking for? What does it mean by "use them on the wiki"?
 * "Should we use the colored chapter covers on this wiki?"
 * "Should we allow the colored manga images to replace other images, with discussion?"

(edit conflict) So when you're looking at a character's infobox, you want to see a monochrome image instead of a colored one?

The first poll is about the chapter covers. If people agree to use them,we'll make another poll about how to use them. 16:50, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. If Option 1 loses, then the chapter covers will be unable to be uploaded. 16:57, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

No it is a fact he didn't do any of it. If he had done it it would have been hand drawn and not digitally done. SeaTerror (talk) 17:24, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

But it's not like every single thing in the colored volumes are inherently digitally colored. These pages are included as well. Also, it's not like this is a "special edition" of the manga. The black and white versions are now labeled as "Monochrome editions" while these are "Color editions." And the first poll says "on this wikia" -- which I took to mean at all. Anyway, good luck. I'm done arguing. Not sure why you would choose the anime over the manga, but then choose the monochrome manga over the colored. XScar (talk) 22:53, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Well obviously this wouldn't apply to color spreads. This is only the in-story stuff. 23:04, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Good. Your arguments were terrible and you kept linking to crap actually done by Oda. SeaTerror (talk) 00:58, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

ST first use an actual argument and then tell the others their arguments are crap. 06:53, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

You seriously are telling me everything I linked to was done by Oda, yet you are arguing against me saying it's not? Yeah, I'm the one with terrible arguements.XScar (talk) 18:38, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

You linked to a color spread that actually came from a chapter then tried to claim it was the exact same as the ones beine done by Shueisha. So yes you are the one with terrible arguments. SeaTerror (talk) 20:16, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

I never said it was exactly the same; I said it was included in the colored editions as well. Please learn to read. I linked to it once (out of the dozen other images I've linked) to inform you guys that they were also included since it had yet to be brought up. XScar (talk) 22:42, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

So, if we upload the pics separately, is it ok with you? E.g if I upload the X Drake pic separately and say this is Drake's appearance in the colored chapters, is it ok with you? 07:32, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

I would have no problem with you putting it in the gallery. And also, Scar, the color spreads aren't the same thing as what we're talking about. The color spreads are hand drawn and colored by Oda, while the colored manga images in question are simply digitally colored by the people of Shueisha. 03:01, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

If you people have no problem with uploading them separately, I will start uploading. 09:07, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Question: if option 1 wins, since option 2 lost, means the cover can be uploaded but will be separated from the original ones? Basically making a gallery somewhere with them?

Yes, Levi. As I said before, I find it annoying that cannot easily check that the uploaded pics are not fanart. I'm not saying XScar is lying, but if in the future other people upload fanmade colored pages, claiming they are from the colored edition, who's gonna check? Aside from that, I'm not really against including them, as long as they do not replace the original manga pics. Also, I extended the poll, since it was a tie again, and discussion is still going on.

If the first option wins, We will make another poll about how to use those images. 15:33, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

So, what are we gonna do about the poll? We've already extended it four times. 18:56, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Extend it infinitely until the first vote. Do you see why I added that rule now? 19:17, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

No. 18:11, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we should leave messages on the talk pages of active users who haven't voted yet since at this point it doesn't look like the poll will ever end. 02:28, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

@JSD "They're official (See recent conversation for proof of that)" : There was no proof that these specific pictures are official. They could be fanart. Who checked?

http://www.amazon.co.jp/ONE-PIECE-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9DIGITAL-ebook/dp/B00ASZ0HA0/ref=sr_1_5?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1370124657&sr=1-5&keywords=one+piece Since they're on Amazon they're probably official. 23:27, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

The pictures are on Amazon? Unless I am missing something, the fact that the colored edition exists does not mean the uploaded pictures are authentic. Who checked? Who will check future pics?

I'd have liked to remain neutral on the first poll, but let's end this. As sff9 said the biggest problem is we cannot check if an image is a official one or a fanart. The ones already uploaded have no source and we simply trust the uploader. That way, I can post tomorrow 10 fanarts and say they are form the colored version and nobody can disprove me.

How about we add a rule saying that these must be sourced? They must link to the one they want. It seems silly to disallow the use of these completely (as will be the case) just because of some worries that can easily be remedied. The "no colored chapter covers" option will disallow them from being uploaded separately.

@Sff, the images are not on Amazon. You can check Levi's talk page on community central to see where I obtained the originals. I would be happy to check the authenticy of these images. 05:14, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

This stuff should not be allowed. Selling on amazon they might be, they are still unnoficial coloring and since it wasn't done by Oda it should be considered fan work. Colorized manga pictures have never been allowed before, they shouldnt now. Genocyber (talk) 10:26, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you read the forum...

The digital colored manga is done by someone at shueisha. It's about as official as the anime is. 10:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Also, people agreed to allowing them in the galleries above. You marking them for deletion is vandalism. 10:29, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

The polls have voted against the option to keep them. This discussion is not yet closed, so hold off on uploading them until people come to an agreement over it. Genocyber (talk) 12:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

The poll is still open Genocyber, which means that unless you stop tagging them for deletion what you're doing is vandalism. Either you wait until the poll closes or suffer the consequences. MasterDeva (talk) 14:11, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

The poll already closed for replacing images with the colored manga, but as discussed above, people were fine with them being uploaded as separate images in the gallery. 14:54, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Except you were replacing them on the character pages swapping out the original manga portraits when I was marking them for deletion, hence my reasoning. Genocyber (talk) 19:49, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, no. That never happened. You can't just mark so many files for deletion just because you are against them. 23:05, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Except that didn't happen. 19:54, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Just because something was done by Shueisha doesn't mean it is official. Oda would have to have done these to make it official. Also Geno you never even voted on the first poll about having them separately uploaded or not. SeaTerror (talk) 22:52, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

They are done by an official company so they should be as official as the anime. 03:54, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't vote on the first poll becasue I was just made aware of this happening. And I said that fanart colored is not allowed galaxy, which I said in the history. You can obviously tell the coloring is not from Oda, and since he didn't do it himself and that its also not part of the anime area either...why are we giving this a free pass? Genocyber (talk) 04:06, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Because it was done by the publisher, aka an official source. 04:09, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Quick question. I know Oda released his own colored versions of Chapter 1 not too long ago. Is this version the same as the digital colored editions? If not, that should say something about their officiality. 04:30, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

No, the colored edition had to go back and digitally color the images. You can see that it's basically the same as Oda's colors though, with the exception of being colored in more. Once again Geno, it's as official as the anime colorization. You sure don't seem to mind using those, even though they aren't colored by Oda. 05:04, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

And you don't seem to mind disregarding the anime despite being approved by him, what's your point? I am stating my opinion that since the manga is held so sacred around here, it should be heavily scrutinized if anything is colored without Oda. Genocyber (talk) 06:35, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I voted against uploading them for other reasons, but I think that even though they are official that doesn't mean we have to upload every single image of them. It's not a big deal if we don't, we just say that project exits, that's enough. you are talking like if we don't upload them we deny the existence of an important part of one piece.

Our purpose is to be a wiki dedicated to everything one piece Levi. We don't even know how we'll implement the chapter covers if the option wins (whether we put a few of them on a special "Digital Colored Version Page", or just create a whole gallery of them on the page. Either way, they need to be acknowledged in some way.

Geno, Oda has no say in what the anime does. He doesn't get to approve anything except for filler devil fruits. 15:51, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I believe that we must use everything related to One Piece on this wiki. Those colored chapter covers must be used on the site somewhere since they come from an official source. 15:59, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Acknowledging their existence doesn't mean uploading every one of them. Saying somewhere that a digital colored version of one piece volume exists with the link to it is enough. We don't have every single page of the manga either, does that mean we don't acknowledge it? Beware, this is not a reason to NOT upload them, but if the only reason for uploading them is to "acknowledge" them, then it's rather weak. There are tons of one piece derivatives works that we don't cover here.

If we don't upload those colored chapter covers, it does mean that we don't acknowledge them since the only way to let the readers of this wiki know that they exist is by uploading them. Creating a new article dedicated to them isn't that hard, is it? 09:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

But Levi, we aren't going to upload all of them unless the second poll we make says to. The current poll is asking if we should use them at all, and the second poll is going to have options such as "put some on a page", "put all on a page", "switch template". We need to have a few of them on this future digital manga page, because actually having them on the wikia looks a lot more appealing then having our readers go to external sites to view them (not to mention you cannot view them without an account on most sites.) 09:39, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Is there any rule for what to do for a poll that has been tied for this long? 03:18, June 25, 2013 (UTC)