Forum:Pre/Post timeskip switch

Problem:
We recently decided to use a pre/post time skip swich in the infobox of some of the characters in One Piece, but there are still some problems needed to be solved. There might be some other problems that i haven't took into account, so feel free to add them if you come up with any.
 * Which image do we use as default (pre/post time skip)?
 * for which characters do we use the switch? we can't have a swich for every character, because some of them didn't change after the time skip, and some characters we haven't even seen yet after the time skip.

Discussion starts here
i think we should use the pre time skip image as defaul, because this is how the characters looked in the beginning, and people who hadn't reached the time skip yet can identify with the characters easier this way.

as for witch characters should have the switch, i think it obvious that all the straw hats need it. if think Keimi need a switch too. Strawhat1 12:40, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I think it is unquestioned to use the switch function for each Straw Hat, they are the very reason why the vote was hold in the first place. As to the default picture, I don't mind either way.


 * Pro pre timeskip: People who didn't reach the timeskip yet can identify the characters easier.


 * Pro after timeskip: People who started reading after the skip can identify the characters easier.

So yeah, it's like tossing a coin.

As for other characters, well I think we should use it for every character visibly affected by the timeskip. With visibly affected I mean things like scars, growth, adjustments etc. (not just a new dress or uniform.)

Example:

Perona should have an after timeskip switch because she visibly matured in the 2 years.

Makino should not because she looks exactly the same. 12:56, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

i think we should make a list of all the characters that need the switch, so i will make a different section for the list. Strawhat1 13:11, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think we should make a list here, not now anyway. We can still discuss that in the talk pages if we decide something like Jinbe said. You can provide examples though, if you want.

As well as discussing, let's gather the problems we have to solve as well possible options. My opinions:
 * Which version to use: preferably the post-timeskip one.
 * Why preferably? Because we should still follow the "quality" principle, so if post time skip image isn't really suited for the infobox (low resolution for example) it should remain either in the gallery/history section, or leave the pre-timeskip as default until we get a better image (like an anime or a color-spread).
 * Which characters: I agree with Jinbe, only characters visibly affected by the timeskip (For example, Zeff isn't one of them). If someone wants the switch only for the Straw Hats, say it.
 * To avoid problems: past appearance (like flash back) doesn't count as "pre-timeskip" images, I think... so Hody as a child should remain in his history section. We should limit the image as the ones from the "present". So every character presented from now on won't be affected by this discussion.

About your quality principle, I kinda don't agree with your values there. Resolution - ok -, but I'm against forcibly waiting for anime or color spreads. A normal manga shot is perfectly fine as long as the size isn't too small or the quality too bad (but that goes for every picture, not really related to the switch).

Pretty much agree with your other points tho. I understand the timeskip itself as a major cut that separates the 2 halves of the One Piece series, flashbacks appearances are another matter and shouldn't be considered. 13:41, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Anime and color-spread were examples, I have nothing against manga images (I voted for the anime/manga switch after all). As you said as long the resolution and the quality are ok, then there isn't any problem. I said that because for some characters there can be only few pictures after the time-skip and maybe they can be not so suited for the infobox.


 * do you think we need to have a vote on the defaul image, or should we just discuss about it? Strawhat1 14:16, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * For now let's gather the problems we have to solve and possible voting options, then we will eventually make the poll. It takes some time to gather everybody's opinion.

My vote is to have the pre-timeskip image as the default, then switch to the post-timeskip... For now. Personally, as time goes on, and we get further into the second half of this long, epic journey, I say we make the post-timeskip image the default. That being said, I think we should wait until the anime to use images for the info-boxes. - BattleFranky202 17:38, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

List of all the characters that need the switch:
Please write here all the characters you think should have a switch. Please don't write the same character twice.
 * Luffy
 * Zoro
 * Nami
 * Usopp
 * Sanji
 * Chopper
 * Robin
 * Franky
 * Brook
 * Keimi
 * Perona
 * Rika
 * Ninjin
 * Tamanegi
 * Piiman
 * Yosaku
 * Johnny
 * Nojiko
 * Chabo
 * Mr. 9
 * Wapol
 * Miss Monday
 * Makino
 * Kaya

I don't think this part is needed (at least now)... it will needed if we will decide to go as Jinbe said, but we can still discuss this in the talk pages.

one of the things needed to be solved is: wich character gets the swich? if we decide to give a swich only for the straw hats, than we will deletethe list. but for now we are making a swich to all the characters who have changed, and it is a good thing that we make a list so early, so we wont mise any character. Strawhat1 14:13, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Just a list won't work because we might lose some and more characters in need of a switch might come along. We should just have a general rule and decide on a case by case basis. Bastian964 23:09, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

but we can't go through every single character! especially when most of them didn't make an appearance after the time skip. our general rule can be this: no character that appeared after the time skip gets a switch, even if it had a flashback. other characters will only get a switch if their appearance change. it shouldn't be so hard to make a list, because we don't have to pass through every character, in one piece, only the once that appeared after the time skip, so we have to look back at the chapters that are after the time skip. Strawhat1 07:40, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

i have a question - will we give a switch to characters that appeared only in "From the Decks of the World" mini series, or should we leave them out? Strawhat1 07:44, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No. Default image should always be pre-timeskip because that is what the characters were introduced as. SeaTerror 09:51, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No. Default image should always be post-timeskip because that is how the characters currently look like. It is the current policy, see e.g. Coby.

how is that the current policy? up until now we used the general look of the characters, not the current look. i think we should use the pre time skip, because of what @SeaTerror said and because people who didn't reach the time skip would recognize the characters better. Strawhat1 11:22, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it the current policy? Well, can't find a better answer than "because it is"… Here are other examples aside from Coby: Helmeppo, Alvida, Duval. I can't find any counterexample.


 * You COULD quote the guidelines on this one; The clothes the character in the image have to be at least the ones that they are most commonly seen in. A good example would be Luffy's red vest and blue pants. They do not have to be the most up to date, however if the standard clothes the character wears changes, then the new style may replace the old in such an occurrence. This CAN be changed though, its not set in stone. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 14:02, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I will put a note that the previous defination of "up to date" just to refers to characters like Nami and Robin who change their outfits often (see the rule after it #5), it was to save us having to update the outfit they wore every arc. Major changes weren't included... Because we never expected a major change like that of a time skip. Again, this can be tweaked to make it more defined so no worries. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 14:04, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, notice that I only included examples of radical appearance changes, not just changes of outfit (I discarded Jango for example).


 * These toggling things will have to be very definate, otherwise you will never explain "why this just can't go in the Appearance section". So guys, please make sure all of this is tidy, this will most likely end up with someone having to add a section just to explain the purpose of Appearances anyway. But right now I'm not pushing that issue until this is sorted. I'm bored of saying that so I'll make that the last time I say it. I just hope there isn't another time skip planned in several years time otherwise this will all get very messy. I guess we'll cross that hurdle when we get to it. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 14:31, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Sff9, the current look is what matter, but anyway there will be both options, so just say your reasons if you want. About your question strawhat1, the characters that appeared in "From the Decks of the World" were all introduced before so why not? That depends on the discussion about the "unchanged characters" though (we will vote on this too), for example, in my opinion with people like Zeff a switch won't add anything while it's worth with people like Rika.

if you think she can have a switch, than add her to the list, as well as all the other characters you all think should have a switch. it will be more organized if we will have a list and we won't have to look for all the characters people mentioned in the discussion. Strawhat1 12:17, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

should we have a switch for Makino and Kaya? they seem to have matured a lot... i don't think we need to have aswitch for Mr. 9 and Miss Monday. what do you think? Strawhat1 12:34, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I personnelly don't think a switch is needed unless theres a major change of appearance overall, but you may just want to wait a while for a better image to come up. Knowing Oda though... Ah... Thats 5 years in the future. So that might not be a great idea. ¬_¬ One-Winged Hawk 14:08, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

When we're done, we could do with an example on the Image Guidelines.

''BTW I just opened up the space for all this to go into. I'm updating the IG today now I've got time, if anyone has an issue with anything, let me know.'' One-Winged Hawk 14:24, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

No the original look is what actually matters. Whoever changed the others to post-timeskip made up their own "policy" since sff9 claims that is "policy" SeaTerror 17:32, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * All the infobox pictures of the examples I gave are pre-timeskip. It was meant to show that even before the timeskip, the policy de facto (I don't claim anything, it's a fact anyone can notice) was to use current appearance rather than original appearance.


 * (edit conflict) I think Sff9 was referring at Coby's example because he had a drastically change of appearance during the story (note: during the pre-timeskip, since we didn't see him yet), so if in that case (and others like Alvida) we preferred the newest look it's not so absurd to use the post-timeskip as default. We will vote on this anyway.
 * i think we should start the vote now on the default image, because every one is saying what they think and we should just put ut to a vote. i also think we should have a shorter vote of like a week instead of two, because this is not the the big vote, this is just a vote about a smaller subject the came later. Strawhat1 18:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * i think we should start the vote now on the default image, because every one is saying what they think and we should just put ut to a vote. i also think we should have a shorter vote of like a week instead of two, because this is not the the big vote, this is just a vote about a smaller subject the came later. Strawhat1 18:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Basically we should add it in every character that appeared after the timeskip... No exceptions, only Dorry and Broggy - Patty, Zeff and Carne - Momonga... Oh and Sentomaru should be on the list too..

Ok but let's wait a couple of days, meanwhile we should discuss if there are other problems over the switch. We have just focused on the default image, so if you think there are other discussions to make just bring up the problem.

so far no one brought up any other problem, and i think we should have the vote about the default image, because we were only talking about this and the list and we can just get one thing over with. we can continue the discussion while the vote is taking place.

for @LPK, if you think a character needs to have a switch then put it on the list. Strawhat1 20:43, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

but, @LPK, i don't agree with some of the characters you mentioned. we are only making a switch for characters who have changed after the time skip - we do have exceptions, because if we will make a switch for every character that appeared after the time skip, then we will have two images that are the same and that doesn't make sense. Strawhat1 20:49, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I've suggested to wait a little before voting and making a list, because we will decide everything in one poll, it's no use starting a vote over the default image then voting over other things... it will become a mess. And it's ok to start making the list, but I said to wait on that too because if the option "everybody gets a switch" will win, the list will be useless, also it's not clear if the current list is meant for characters who have changed or to gather all the characters seen again after the timeskip up until now. Let's wait until tomorrow at least.

If you wouldn't mind, I know its set up on pre-time skip and post right now, but could we just have two additionals added to the tabs?


 * Most updated look (updates as we change)
 * Most common/well known (thats closet to what we would consider as our current "default" we have now according to IG)

Thats all I have to input. Right now I'm reading what everyone is saying... In a few cases the timeskip hasn't left the characters changing much. I did warn though this wasn't going to be easy. One-Winged Hawk 18:43, August 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't understand, are you suggesting a four-way switch? Isn't it basically another kind of switch? I think is easier to decide over the default image, beside this is an issue regarding the normal profiles too.


 * Their aimed at the post and pre-time skips... As in "the most up to date pre/post" or "average look pre-post" I didn't make it clear. Sorry about that. I'm trying to make this more definate on WHAT we're after here. Mostly because theres another section of everyone characters page that needs an IG written on it when we're done so the more sure on what the toggle images will have the better. One-Winged Hawk 21:40, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Nothing is ever easy Hawk, and if it was easy, if would be no fun at all, sorry I've been gone so much, but now I'm here, I tried to read all of your discussion, but I simply could not since it was way too much, but I got the big picture, this time-skip is the biggest difference between what "was and is" regarding the toggling topic, a big change in the manga needs to bring forth a change in the guidelines, toggling, this will need a vote as well..., but not until the first poll ends, BUT either way I'm gonna write it here so:What characters should hhave in their infoboxes the toggling option? The SH; everyone; the ones that changed after the time-skip at least one bit;

@StrawHat1: Those characters(Dorry and Broggy - Patty, Zeff and Carne - Momonga) are the only ones that we shouldn't add the switch on them. Thats what I meant.

i think we should start the vote. the vote will have this categorie:

1) defaulte image:


 * pre time skip as defaulte image.


 * post time skip as defaulte image.

2) witch characters should have a switch?


 * all of the characters that appeared before and after the time skip.


 * only the straw hats.


 * only the characters that changed their appearance after the time skip.

does anyone else wants to add something to the vote before we start it? Strawhat1 06:21, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, as mentioned earlier plus one additional I came up with;

Which version of the characters look should be used for both pre and post timeskip;


 * Most common appearance (e.g. Luffy's red vest and hat)
 * Most recent appearance
 * Best overall representation (regardless of if it is the most recent or common appearance they have, in other words the one that screams "Luffy" or "Zoro" the most)

I'd like to get this out the way because this is update to clarify a particular aspect of IG that is not closed enough.One-Winged Hawk 11:43, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Poll
The restrictions for voting are, unless the community says otherwise, min 300 edits and 3 month on the wiki. The restriction are only for voting, not for the discussion.

The poll will last two weeks, so it will end at the 00:00 am of the August 31. (if you want to change the duration discuss it). This vote will decide on the specifics regarding the pre/post time skip switch:

Default image:


 * Use of pre time skip images as default.
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   13:14, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   13:14, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Use of post time skip images as default.
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 16:24, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:56, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 18:51, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 19:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Bastian964 19:23, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Neutral

Characters who will get the switch:


 * All of the characters that appeared before and after the time skip will get the switch.
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 16:24, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) (change mind, more universal rule)
 * 3) Bastian964 19:23, August 18, 2011 (UTC) A lack of change is as significant as a change (or at least that's how it seems to me). Furthermore, it stops the 'did this character change enough' arguments.
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Only the straw hats will get the switch.


 * Only the characters that changed their (physical) appearance after the time skip will get the switch.
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   13:14, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:56, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) I hope with appearence you mean physically (scars, growth etc, not dresses) 19:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 22:40, August 26, 2011 (UTC) "Appearance" section can be used for those with little to no change.
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 22:40, August 26, 2011 (UTC) "Appearance" section can be used for those with little to no change.


 * Neutral

Which version of the characters look should be used for both pre and post timeskip:
 * First appearance - as they looked in the period when they were first presented


 * Most common appearance including outfits (e.g. Luffy's red vest and hat)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   13:14, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) One-Winged Hawk 16:24, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:56, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 18:51, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 19:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Most recent appearance including outfits - basically the current look and outfit (change it every arc)


 * Most recent physical appearance - if there will be physical changes, the image must be show them (e.g. Coby, Alvida; Luffy current picture is ok)
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Best overall representation (regardless of if it is the most recent or common appearance they have, in other words the one that screams "Luffy" or "Zoro" the most) - case by case decision


 * Neutral


 * Will this choice affect every infobox?
 * Yes, it will be our policy regarding infobox pictures (included those without switch)
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 07:47, August 18, 2011 (UTC) keeps everything more universal, plus it updates a vague and out dated IG.
 * 19:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 19:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 17:26, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, it will regard only the infobox with switches (both pre/post time-skip)


 * Neutral
 * 11:56, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   12:10, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) 海賊-姫 18:51, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:36, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Poll Discussion/Other Suggestions
I'd like the permission to vote on this poll, in spite the fact that i'm new to this wiki and i didn't edit 300 times, this vote is important to me, and i was the one who started it, so i'd like to participate in this poll. Strawhat1 12:22, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have nothing against you voting, but if you are allowed to vote then we should change the restriction to the poll to let everybody vote. I think it's unfair to make an exception only for you.

Regarding the last poll I think the option "first look" should be added (for example, Coby's case), and I don't understand some things: We can always add more options to include/not include the outfits.
 * will it affect the normal profiles too? (those without switch)
 * For "most recent (or first) appearance" we mean only the physical look or we include the "outfit" too? Because, for example, I'd like to vote for "most recent appearance", but I don't mean outfits changes... we have to be clear on this.

i have no problem letting everyone vote, i will change it right now.

@levi, i don't think it should change the profile without a switch, because that will case only unnecessary work, and i'm not in favor of it in general. about the second question, i think you should ask @hawk, she suggested it. Strawhat1 13:09, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * No wait, I think "let everybody votes" is something to decide all together, maybe with a quick poll, maybe someone has complains to just change the restriction like that, so please undo that. I think the last poll should regard all profiles, so we can decide once for all what image choose.

We had a forum about the rules. And the results are 300 edits and 3 months. We cant change it whenever we want.


 * If its a case of a few missing edits, that IS possible to resolve by the end of the poll so you can vote, even if its just a quick one (one week) just by some serious knuckling down and editing. Heck, I used to have this handy dandy list of things editors can do if they feel they want to do some SERIOUS editing. I can always resurrect it if you want. Originally it was meant to poke fun at a whiner though who conplained and criticised the wikia for being oh so wrong... When he wasn't prepared to actually EDIT the wikia to help clean it up. Haha! It sorta put him in his place, but in due respects the list was actually quite a serious one with a LOT off problems to resolve. While it was fun to shove in his face, it reflected the darker problems of the wikia... :-/ One-Winged Hawk 14:58, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

i changed it back and deleted my votes. if changing the restrictions takes so much time (if it's even possible) then we should let it go. Strawhat1 13:28, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

but what do you say about making it a quick vote of one week instead of two? this is not the big vote of making a switch, this is the small vote that came later for the little details. what do you think? Strawhat1 13:32, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * I say if you really want to vote, maybe we can add a little poll that will last a week about the poll restriction, to choose if use the normal restriction or none (but in this poll the normal restriction are still applied). Aside from that are clothing included in the "appearance"? We have to be clear on this, also if that counts for normal profile too.


 * Erm... Can I just say this; can we just stick to the rules. You complained about me stepping in and closing toggling temporay while I tried and sort a mess on IG because of the sudden toggling thing. Now please after all the lectures from that one panic action of mine don't turn around and abuse the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules, don't go rubbing the rules on someone else. It is also disrespectful to everyone who voted on the poll for voting restrictions. SH has restracted the vote and understood the rules; leave it at that.


 * If you say a greenbelt piece of land cannot be built on, don't keep digging it up to add an odd house here and there because there won't be a greenbelt anymore. ^_- One-Winged Hawk 16:22, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Appearance? I wrote it to mean overall look. Do we need to define that? ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 16:23, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * lets leave the restrictions as they are, it creates too many problems. but what about making the vote shorter to one week insted of two? Strawhat1 16:40, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * lets leave the restrictions as they are, it creates too many problems. but what about making the vote shorter to one week insted of two? Strawhat1 16:40, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Me sure you are cryptic angel... I just say to make things clear, you said that too otherwise it will be a mess. What I mean is, if we vote for the "most recent appearance" we will change the pic for every suit Nami or Robin will wear or we will just change it if there will be changes in the phisical appearence? (that's what I mean for "most recent appearance" for example) If I have this doubt, maybe other has it too, I simply don't want to cause misunderstanding. That's why I wanted to wait a little before start voting...

Well, in my opinion the last part should go as this:


 * Which version of the characters look should be used?
 * First appearance - as they looked in the period when they were first presented
 * Most common appearance including outfits (e.g. Luffy's red vest and hat)
 * Most recent appearance including outfits - basically the current look and outfit (change it every arc)
 * Most recent physical appearance - if there will be physical changes, the image must be show them (e.g. Coby, Alvida; Luffy current picture is ok)
 * Best overall representation (regardless of if it is the most recent or common appearance they have, in other words the one that screams "Luffy" or "Zoro" the most) - case by case decision


 * Will this choice affect every infobox?
 * Yes, it will be our policy reagarding infobox pictures (included those without switch)
 * No, it will regard only the infobox with switches (both pre/post time-skip)

With this we can decide once for all how choose the infobox picture... what do you think? Also adding a "neutral" option to every point is a good idea. @Strawhat: since there are still ongoing problems about this problem I think is a good idea to leave the deadline in 2 weeks.

i agree with you, @levi. Strawhat1 17:32, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not cryptic, I just forgot to make things definate... Don't forget, I'm the one who wrote IG and left things too open here in the first place on a few issues, but in some cases since no one gave me feedback at the time it was a little "shot in the dark" or open because it had to take int consideration on what we had at the time. T_T One-Winged Hawk 07:51, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Just a note, if there is only a bad quality post-timeskip image we won't use it in the infobox (it will remain in the gallery/history section), I believe, because it will go against the other guidelines for the infobox pictures right? (since it has poor quality) Or we need to add this topic to the poll?

@levi, i honestly don't know. if a character needs a switch but it dosen't have a good image for it, it will be a problem. i think we shouldn't give that character a switch, especially when it will probably be a character from the cover series, so the character won't appear that mach anyway... i say we wait and hear what people have to say about this, and than we will decide to have a poll if necessary. Strawhat1 14:24, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

i'd like to add another thing to the vote. it's about the profile images (like the ones in the Straw Hat Pirates page). should those images be pre or post time skip? Strawhat1 14:50, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * "The vesion of which they were a member" is the only rule for indentity images really... And I don't know if it was ever written down. So sir crocodile in the Shibukai template should look like when he joined, ditto for baroques but if theres one for Impel Down, he looks like what he did in Impel Down. Thats at the mo, the only general rule. But they were written in late 2006 when no time skip was expected.


 * I just think its best to go with most up to date. The thumbnails contain spoilers anyway as crew members get revealled. One-Winged Hawk 20:33, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * i think we can use those images for the post time skip side of the switch (the ones in the lower half), don't you think? post time skip imageStrawhat1 10:01, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * here is an example of Nami: Strawhat1 12:54, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * here is an example of Nami: Strawhat1 12:54, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think they have enough quality yet... maybe waiting the anime? But even the manga one are fine to me.

mabye we should wait for the anime, but right now we don't have a good colored image from the manga... Strawhat1 12:54, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

can those of you who voted for "all the characters that appeared before and after the time skip will get a switch", can you explain to me why have you chose this option? i just don't understand why people like Zeff should get a switch. why should we have to images in the infobox that looks exactly the same? Strawhat1 05:51, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

I've changed mind because it's a more universal rule, ti will avoid discussion and I think it's more "fair". Beside it will remark the fact that they didn't changed during the timeskip (this is also why I preferred a manga/anime switch). Of course I am not particular against the other option.

That image shouldn't be on the wikia since it is fanart. SeaTerror 09:55, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

are you talking about nami's image? it's not fanart, i just cut it off from this image, which is not fanart. that image was published in the weekly shonen jump, to show the straw hats after the time skip, and to announce that the time skip episode will be broadcast on october 2nd. Strawhat1 12:49, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

This poll ends on the 31st... If no one updates IG, on the 1st I'll be doing a major IG update if you guys don't mind and sorting everything out. It looks like we have some winners at least. One-Winged Hawk 19:37, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Just a note, wait a moment before adding the switches, because I still have to edit the template. What I used in the forum was a test, so there can be some changes. I'm a little busy at the moment, but I think I can do that these days. Thank you. I'll post here when it's "ready to go".

The time for voting is over, can someone end the poll?

Poll's results

 * The default image will be the post time skip one.
 * Characters who will get the switch: Only the characters that changed their (physical) appearance after the time skip will get the switch.
 * The version of the characters look used for both pre and post timeskip: Most common appearance including outfits.
 * The affect on every infobox: Yes, it will be our policy regarding infobox pictures (included those without switch).

Poll's results Discussion
We still need to finish some details, so here is the place for that.

Ok, so we have the pre time skip image for the switch, but we still need to decide on which post time skip image will we use. I think we should wait until the anime will reach the time skip, because their must be good images from there.

So we decided that only the characters that changed their (physical) appearance after the time skip will get the switch. We made a list bedore of the characters that have changed in the time skip, so we can use that.

The results are supposed to affect on every infobox, but we decided that the most common appearance will be in the infobox, so i don't think we need to change much in the infoboxs that don't have the switch.

What do you think? Strawhat1 04:16, September 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can get on with the updates in IG though, so this I can leave to everyone to sort. I'll be updating IG tomorrow morning (for me its morning anyway lol). One-Winged Hawk 07:25, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like the jist of it. For the Straw Hats, I like the images from that site the example Nami came from. Some of them will require a bit of touch-up work to get the letters out of the way, but otherwise they should be good. As for the others, I think that it's best to do what we always do, use the best manga pic until a better one becomes available. So, for people like Kaya and Wapol, it would be best to use the cover images we already have, which won't be any trouble. 04:39, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

i agree that the images from the site the example Nami came from are good, but the images are too small... and we need to lose the letters, and we can't even use franky's image because brook and robin are hiding him... Strawhat1 09:23, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I saw that there are already switches for some of the straw hats, and it looks good! the only problem is that we decided that the default image will be the post, and not the pre time skip one and it seems that right now the default image is the pre one... I don't know if it's just the beginning and it's going to change, and if so then i'm sorry, i just wanted to mention it. Strawhat1 10:12, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, my fault there, I forgot that the post time-skip one has to be first

Here are some images of the straw hats that i took from this image. I don't know if we will use them, it's just a thought: Strawhat1 10:35, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

If a picture hasn't a good quality isn't suited for the profile, those are nice but they do not even have the minimal dimension for an infobox, so I don't think we should use them. The manga ones are far better. The same goes for other characters, if we have only a little not-so-good picture we don't use it in the infobox. I think there is a minimal "quality" requirement in the image guidelines for the infobox, we have only changed the "switch" part, not that.

This is what it would look like if the image you gave us would be used: (Edit:Deleted it)

Ok... it was just a thought... i'd like to propose another thing: shouldn't we change the font of the switch to something different and, well, cool, instead of the regular font? --Strawhat1 10:47, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Can you recommend any? Since I have a small list of fonts here: User:Ricizubi/Fonts Used, just as an idea to give us, if not you can go to wikipedia and look for a font

I don't know for sure if these pictures are on our wikia, but they are great the infoboxes of the characters that get a switch or have appeared post time-skip, Rayleigh

Franky needs to have this image used, all the other are not good enough, since they contain other people

Sentomaru

Perona

Aside from the font, should I move the "buttons" to the bottom maybe?

No, I don't think its a good idea, the infobox is full of things, it has to be pretty noticeable, the first thing you look at is the picture, then the title and between those two, also, when you open the page, the switch will not be seen if its down at most pictures, the switch needs to be seen, its about it being used and I wonder how many of you actually go to Brook's infobox to look at the japanese,romanized and english name since i don't,

I mean under the picture... like the 4th option of the forum (the 4-way switch, image it without the top buttons).

I know and as I was saying, its not a good idea, in my opinion at least

I don't think the switch should be at the bottom too. @Ricizubi, we are not doing a switch for Rayleigh and Sentomaru, because they didn't change after the time skip. read the poll's results. about franky's image that you suggested, i don't think it's a good idea because we can't really see his face... how about the image from the cover of chapter 604? about nami, i think we need to use the image from chapter 628, no? and about chopper, maybe the image from. i know it's not colored but we don't have much choice... what do you think? --Strawhat1 13:48, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think those game pictures above are terrible. We should use, or,. Any other potential colored post-timeskip pictures may come from, , , and , as long as their angle of snapshot is sufficient. Also, this brings up the pre-timeskip pictures: they seem to be derived from games as well, so why not find a manga or anime one instead. 17:34, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

the images come from a poster announcing the time skip in the anime, not from a game. just saying. about the image you suggested, we already have an image for all the straw hats except for nami, chopper and franky. i don't see any image for chopper in those images, but nami can use the image from chapter 628, and franky can use the image from chapter 604. all the other images are not good for the infobox. --Strawhat1 17:43, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yata I didn't mean to make them a switch, I showed links to pictures that can be used for the infobox, since the default images now for every infobox are the post time-skip ones, sorry for not saying enough for people to understand what I meant with those images, I think that the franky image from the manga is perfect, who cares about colors when you have a full body shot with nothing in it, like people, in every color spread till now, either he is behind his crew, either he's in a bad position for the infobox the chopper image is great too, allot better than the ones from the color spreads, and maybe one for Nami as well, even though I don't remember any form the manga nor the color spreads, I have to check them again

maybe we can take nami's image from here: i guess we can use the black and white ones until the anime/manga will have a better one. Oh, and what about a switch for the none-straw hats characters? --Strawhat1 17:52, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Well I showed some examples, like of Perona, Rayleigh and Sentomaru

those were good, but i told you that we are not doing a switch for Rayleigh and Sentomaru! --Strawhat1 18:16, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

People, what is so hard to understand that I linked them here for the DEFAULT image, not for the switch, only the perona one should get a switch

Just use the manga images until the anime shows good images for them. SeaTerror 18:53, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Why is the post-time skip image the first option? The pre-time skip should be first because that is what everybody is familiar with. Plus not to mention it goes in order PRE vs POST. SeaTerror 19:07, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

It was decided in the poll.

ST, first of all be patient, the template needs to be edited so that the unselected pre time skip will be first as an option, but as you see in the voting, the default image for the infobox is the post time-skip one, so it has to be the selected one when you enter the page and so the toggle feature has its necessity to show the old images from pre time-skip, I was against the post-time skip pic being the default one, but only I and enric shared this opinion, so I can't do anything about it

I did too technically. I didn't vote because by the time I would have everybody else voted for the other crap so I saw no point. What's even worse is they are using really really crappy images for the post time skip. They don't even fill out the info box all the way. At least on Zoro's I mean. SeaTerror 19:37, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

We aren't using the pictures above, they have too bad quality to be used (technically they will go against other image gudelins). We'll try to find other pics or wait the anime.





Well guys, I didn't want to add a switch to each of them since that would completely screw the page up when you click one button, so I gave you a comparison between them, I say that the manga images for Nami and Usopp are best and for Franky as well, what do you think?

lets use the manga until the anime has better ones. Strawhat1 03:49, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

So does anybody have any problems with the pictures of post time-skip being from the manga at the SH, Zoro, Franky, Nami and Usopp? if not then Ace will reupload the pictures that were deleted and that are here with a red link, those have been imporved and all of them have good quality, no fantext and there are no other images like that on the wikia(except for Franky)

I think we can use the manga images for now, since no one has complained yet. if someone will then we will discuss it. Strawhat1 06:17, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

about zoro's image, in know that someone change the original image so that the scar will be on the correct side, but it seems that now the colors of the image have changed, and now they are worst than the image with the scars on the wrong side. i wanted to know if there is a way to change that, and if not then what do we do? --Strawhat1 06:26, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

--im confused!!!!!.... My suggestion is that we use their default appearance.... We can add the Post Time Skip appearance at the gallery or History??? CuL HanZ | Talk 04:12, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

We are using switch in infoboxes, so no point in adding up in gallery.The poll decided it all. 04:21, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

for now i think we can use franky and nami's manga image. Strawhat1 12:44, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

back to the font topic, i still think we should change the font, so the switch will be more obvious, and more cool :) --Strawhat1 13:27, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think a different font will be a good choice, a different style, maybe, like a more button-like features (border, background). I'll think of something. I still don't understand what's wrong with the manga-colored pictures... maybe because they have a different point of view? It's not a big deal... and those image Ace uploaded are still not good... (bad quality, bad name) if you downloaded them from the wiki, you have to do "save destination as" not "save image as", otherwise you will only save the thumbnail, not the actual image (in fact they have 250px-...).

i agree about the button idea. about the images, i don't care either way, we are going to have the anime images soon enough. Strawhat1 13:58, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Anime would take some time for now.It is on Oct.2nd. 06:01, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

yea, which is less than a month from now. Strawhat1 10:32, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

why where the infoboxes deleted except from the Introduction section in the straw hats page? is that vandalism or a decision by the wiki? where was this decision made? --Strawhat1 13:50, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

For this I need a citation from the image guidelines: "On every character page, there may be a infobox section on the page acting as a 'quick reference' for viewers." Every Page doesn't mean Every SUBPAGE, there is a difference. I also followed Panda's motto: "Edit then ask" since first I don't remember them being there, 2nd, what would they be doing there? an infobox is just as its written in the image guidelines, a quick reference, we don't need it everywhere, 3rd Panda asked me to, but don't put the blame on her since I wanted to delete them from moment I added the switches and noticed there was something there.

If u follow that rule there will be only edit wars on this wikia.Just ask admin first about this or create a forum.U are vandalizing articles. 14:40, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Rika, Yosaku, Johnny, Nojiko, Chabo, Mr. 9, Wapol, Miss Monday, Makino and Kaya still don't have a switch. just wanted to know what's going on. Strawhat1 18:41, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Johnny and Yosaku should get a switch, but the other no, no physical changes

no physical changes? ok. lets see. Rika got way taller. Nojiko changed here hair, and she looks a bit different. Chabo got older, taller, and have longer hair. Mr. 9, longer hair, and no "9" on his cheeks. Wapol, looks thinner, has glasses and his chin now looks like farnky's. Miss Monday's hair looks a bit different, but i'm not sure if it's different enough. Makino and Kaya look way more mature. now tell me that they didn't change their physical appearance. Strawhat1 04:03, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

and what about making the switch more button-like? Strawhat1 14:14, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

oh, and another thing, i think it would be best to have a pre/post time skip switch for The Eleven Supernovas, now that we have their looks post time skip. i'm not talking about making a switch for each of them individually, just for the Eleven Supernovas's page. and we still need to make a switch for the other characters that i stated before, and think about making the switch more button-like. --Strawhat1 05:31, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

It is a good idea, but can u give me source from where did u find the Supernova pic. 05:38, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

i didn't found this pic, i saw it in this blog. the writer of the blog said he found the pic here. Strawhat1 05:45, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

The picture is from magazine, so it may be Fan art.I did not see it in manga. 05:49, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

it's not fan art. i know that they didn't appear in the manga yet, but it's oda's. in the blog someone explained it:

Greg: For everyone wondering about the below post, I'm 99% sure I know what it is. It's the result of the 'phrase' contest held a few months back where they asked JUMP readers to make a catch phrase for their favorite series to which the authors would create their image to meet the style. The entry for one piece was from a Kato-san of Aichi who entered, "We are, the Age of Pirates!" That was the winner and Oda chose to draw the SNs. The phrase above is an unrelated and perhaps perverted series.

you see? it's not fan art. we can use it in the switch. Strawhat1 06:30, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I can' t resist u r reason.Provide a source for the image. 06:45, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

here you can see the image among other images. i can't read japanese but i think the image is from the weekly shonen jump. --Strawhat1 07:11, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

New Discussion
With the recent Doflamingo picture, I felt that this needed to be bumped. We should change the characters only if they have a change in outfit, or a change in the way they look. Characters like Hancock and Ivankov have the exact same things on, and should not change. While characters such as Zoro and Doflamingo are wearing different things and in Zoro's case, he does look different. Discuss. Galaxy9000 (talk) 01:49, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

That's how it's been going on, has it not? Doflamingo looks different to me though. The shirt and pants look different. If we have to wait for a colored image before posting it though, just to confirm its difference, that's fine. 01:53, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

According to Levi that shouldn't be the case, but it should. It's definitely a different outfit... Galaxy9000 (talk) 01:56, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think it looks too much like his old outfit to really be considered different. However, the important thing here is the rule. Jinbe has had no change at all, yet he has a switch template. Absolutely unnecessary. I think that only significant outfit changes (like Chopper and Brook) and physical changes should warrant a switch. By this logic, Hancock and Ivankov would also have no switch. 03:43, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Jinbe's outfit change is incredibly different. The color, symbols, and he doesn't have that sleeve thing. 03:47, September 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * He has worn at least five different outfits of that same style (not pattern), and yet we don't have a switch for all of them. It can go in the gallery section. 04:21, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

I personally feel a switch box is only necessary in the case of significantly different physical appearance (such as maturation like Nami or Luffy, and alteration like Franky). Something as minor as a different outfit should just be placed in the character's gallery. 04:14, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Scarring should be considered a physical change as well, like with Luffy, Zoro, and Kid. 04:19, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

His clothes are quite different though, but what if we just wait untill we find a better bodyshot before we change it? It's sure isn't that bad to wait a bit since he looks so similar..

Agree with Kuro. The switch was actually needed because some users refused to simply update profile pics for the Straw Hats. Then, rather logically, it extended to other characters who changed significantly. OK. But a switch for a mere outfit change is too much.

If you look up in the poll options, we considered the case of an outfit change, but we choose to go with only physically changes. Think about it: there is no real reason for that, since we have a gallery section (even a tab now) for that purpose (or just add the picture in the history section). Why do you feel the need of a switch for just an outfit? You say some people changed outfit, but other people change outfit over just a saga, so why don't we add a switch for them too? (only one is not sufficient too)


 * Well actually we didn't consider the case of a simply outfit change, but rather the "everybody get one" case.


 * It just really looks inconsistent to not have a post skip image for each character. That's all I'm saying, but Doflamingo isn't even wearing his signature outfit, which definitely is a big enough change imo. Galaxy9000 (talk) 01:30, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * It would be much more inconsistent to have a switch for a character who changed ONLY an outfit over 2 years, but not for one who changed an outfit after just a saga, this is what you should answer first. Seriously what's wrong with keeping this kind of changes in a gallery like any other character (here the consistency)... I cannot see what's the problem about Doflamingo not having a switch but rather moving the image in the gallery/history section (though I think he is just sitting on his cloak). Again, no information is lost, and everything is in the right place.

It should be physical change only but: in the case of Law, he only changed his clothes and he looks really different, and now he has a switch.
 * But it just looks better to have them all in the infobox. It's a quick reference guide, so if someone wants to quickly see the changes a person may have had over the timeskip, then it should be there. Galaxy9000 (talk) 01:57, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think the "Post Timeskip" pic should be the first appearance after the timeskip, or during the same arc if there can be a better pic. Sort of like how the main pictures of each character are their initial outfits, the post timeskip pictures can be their initial timeskip outfits. I don't think we should restrict it to physical changes because there is so few characters that got a physical change that it's almost pointless. I also think it's pointless to add a switch if the character looks and dresses exactly the same. Like Hancock and Ivankov, they don't need the switch template. 02:14, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I haven't read everything above, because there's so much, but I still think there should be the post TS outfit for Doflamingo. I mean, he has different clothes. Boodle has different clothes, and he has a post TS pre TS thing. And also, Koshiro hasnt even changed at all, and he has one. 02:33, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Koshiro looks like he's gotten older. More wrinkles. Also, would we consider a change in hair style to be a physical change? 00:27, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

If were going to have a post timeskip picture. It should be for those who have physically changed, such as the supernova's, G5 and few others who have changed. As for those who haven't changed, their picture should be added to their gallery. Besty17 (talk) 17:49, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

But there are so few characters who have changed. Even in the Supernovas, only Kidd and Drake have made a physical change. Luffy and Zoro too if you count their scars, but that's still not even half of the group. If we're only going to add the template on characters who only made physical appearances, there's virtually no point since not very many characters did. 18:37, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Still that's what we decided... some people just misunderstood the whole switch thing. Also post-timeskip image will ALWAYS be added, either in the history section or in the gallery section, so no information loss at all. "If we're only going to add the template on characters who only made physical appearances, there's virtually no point since not many characters did" - technically the switch was a special case to begin with, it should be avoided were possible don't you think?

Agreed with Levi. Outfit changes are worth noting, but they do not deserve infobox status. I doubt the anime will cover all the events of the From the Decks of the World cover story, so for many people, this would mean having a black and white image for the indefinite future. And for minor characters, this would obscure their pre-timeskip image, or their appearance when they were most relevant to the story. I don't see anything that can be gained by having an outfit change added to the infobox, when the gallery will do just fine. 19:08, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Because it can showcase the change a character has had within a long period of time, in this case 2 years. If we saw plenty of events that happened with the characters during the timeskip, I can see excluding from the infobox. But since this is a big leap in time, I think the switch template should stay. 16:18, September 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * The switch stays for characters who changed physically, nobody said it should be removed, but if the change itself is not relevant (outfit) why should it be more important than a normal change through sagas and be it put even in the infobox? If the new image is better, then just move the old one in the gallery and leave the new one in the infobox, like I did for Jinbe.

I agree with Levi here. If the post TS picture is better for those who have not changed then that can be used. But the second section of this discussion needs to be resolved because so many pages still have the switch that shouldn't in my mind. 03:51, October 11, 2012 (UTC)