Forum:Separate Volume Pages

So yeah, this was discussed a while back on Talk:Chapters and Volumes. However, since it would affect quite a number of pages, we decided to resolve this in a forum.

Basically: I suggest we create separate pages for all the One Piece Volumes. The current Chapters_and_Volumes page is very long and cluttered, and doesn't allow us to present much information. Separate pages would be much easier to use and information would be more easily found. We could also merge content from Author's Notes and Usopp Gallery Pirates to declutter those pages as well. Here's a draft I made:

User:Awaikage/Sandbox

As you can see, it's much easier to find all the information about a volume. Currently, you'd have to separately go to the Chapters and Volumes page (trivia section for the inside cover), Author's Notes page, Usopp Gallery Pirates page etc. and even then you'd be missing info. Namely, the "Volume Changes". Many changes happen between the original maganizine chapters and the volume versions; Corrections or sometimes even MAJOR changes (Such as Doflamingo's dialogue being changed recently). These changes usually aren't noted anywhere on this wiki, though, meaning that we're missing significant info.

For SBS, I think they shouldn't be merged entirely due to their relative length and the fact that merging them would cause problems for referencing. So the idea I had for that was that we could make "SBS Notes" which would cover the major points, similar to Chapter Notes on chapter articles. Of course, another option would be to simply link the SBS somewhere on the article, but I like the Notes idea.

Share your thoughts below. 15:29, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
I like the idea of having separate volume pages. As Kage pointed out, we lack the volume changes, which can be significant at times and pretty interesting for readers, and having separate volume pages would allow readers to know the changes. I also like the idea of having SBS notes, which allows easy access to important information and getting rid of nonsense parts of the SBS such as penis questions. So I'm all for having separate volume pages. 15:35, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I think all the SBS should remain because it's one of the only ways for many people to read them. Though they should probably keep their own pages, and we link to them 16:10, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Jade. Seems like a nice and doable idea that can cover information that would otherwise have no place to be put. Also, I like the SBS notes idea with all those SBS pages remaining intact as said before. 16:19, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Can't deny it's a grand idea. Similar to Naruto and Bleach. Although, should we use the Volume's title or number to be the page name? 16:37, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I'd say numbers, we use them for chapters and episodes as well. Might as well be consistent. 16:40, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me. 16:47, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

@Kaido- Kage suggested having SBS notes, much like how we have notes for chapters, to summarize up relevant and important informtaion from the SBS. We will of course link to the full SBS as well. Kage is not suggesting to remove the SBS pages, but to summarize them up in volume pages and link to the full SBS page. 17:04, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

In the past I've been against this idea. And I still am now. Let's argue about this for weeks and weeks and weeks and...

Nah, I'm just screwing with ya. I'm in total agreement with what Kage said, pretty much. Name them "Volume X". Make the SBS Notes section, with a link to the full SBS.

Also, in the past, there was talk of a sort of SBS master page that included short notes of important things in every SBS, so that you could search the page in order to find which SBS something was in. Perhaps after all the volume pages are made, we can make that page too? (Like a subpage of SBS)

One thing I do want to make clear is that we should not delete/alter Chapters and Volumes, as that is an important page for the wiki, with a lot of information in one place. And it gets a lot of reader traffic on here too. 17:34, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. Even if it's getting cluttered, it's a good base page that people could use to navigate to the individual volume pages. 21:00, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed^^ 12:44, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I agree, but I feel like the volume page and the SBS pages be merged. If they were separate, the volume page would just be empty.

There appears to be a consensus, so we should try and figure out how to lay out the pages.

I personally like the layout on Narutopedia, as shown here. After a brief explanation like on chapter pages, we list the chapters in the volume with the short summaries of each chapter included. Then, we put the SBS notes/Usopp gallery Pirates afterwards. The Author's note could go before the list of chapters. How does this sound?

Of course, I support the numbering system like we use for Chapters and Episodes, so it would be Volume 77 instead of Smile, for example 14:39, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

@JSD: Yeah, I'm fine with leaving the Chapters and Volumes page intact to serve as a hub of sorts. I like the idea of having a master page for the Notes once they're all done.

@Gourd: Not really. We have the cover info, Author's Notes, chapter list, SBS Notes, Usopp Gallery Pirates, Volumes Changes, possibly trivia etc. And in the end merging the SBS would cause more trouble than it's worth, as we have a ton of references that would have to be changed. Personally I think it wouldn't really look good aesthetically, either. Well anyway, the majority seems to support the Notes idea.

@Kaido: Well, you know, there's that draft I made... Not sure about having the short summaries, but that's a possibility. 14:57, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea to me, though I'd propose adding brief chapter summaries (even shorter than the short summaries) to the page below each chapter so that people can identify it by content in addition to name.

Also, what's this business about Doflamingo's dialogue being changed?--Xilinoc (talk) 16:51, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I've been waiting for this. As JSD said, this won't really change much Chapters and Volumes since that's simply an "index" page, like Episode Guide for example.

Chapters and Volumes article use to originally have volume summaries like the episode guide. It was changed for no reason. We should probably add short summaries back to it and either leave the name the same or rename it to Chapter Guide. SeaTerror (talk) 18:53, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Layout Discussion
Seems like we're in unanimous agreement on creating the pages. There's also majority for the SBS Notes idea and leaving the Chapters and Volumes page intact. Time to discuss the layout, then. Is anyone opposed to general structure presented in my draft?


 * Cover
 * Author's Notes
 * Chapters
 * SBS Notes
 * Usopp Gallery Pirates
 * (Volume Changes)
 * (Trivia)
 * References
 * Site Navigation

Also, should we have short summaries or short-short summaries for each of the chapters? 18:59, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

If someone wants to read the chapter summary, shouldn't he just go the the chapter page? It's probably best to add a volume summary, like those that used to be in the volume list.

You can make the same argument for the episode guide then. There should be short summaries for chapters like there are for the episodes on the episode guide. SeaTerror (talk) 19:12, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I'd say short-short summaries would be best so the reader can choose between three levels of detail (short-short, short, and long) if they want. An example for, say, the volume that contains chapter 789 would be "Luffy regains his Haki and confronts Doflamingo once more", as that's the focal event of the chapter and such.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:15, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I was just about to reference the episode guide! Anyways, that has short 1-2 sentence summaries for each episode, maybe we could do that here, but with some kind of hide or drop-down template? That way the summary is there if people want it, but is not in the way if they don't want it.

And are we going to include all the individual chapter cover images as well for each one? 19:17, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

If you have a separate page for volumes then you'll lead a longer general summary for them anyway. Not too long since most of them are covered by the arc articles. SeaTerror (talk) 19:19, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I would prefer to have short chapter summaries and NOT have a summary for the whole volume. We already have summaries in too many other places, and we don't need a general summary if we have chapter ones. 19:22, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with JSD. It should either be a general summary OR short chapter summaries. Not both. And I'd prefer chapter summaries.

I don't think chapter cover images are necessary. There'd probably just be a ton of wasted space if we put the vertical covers next to few-sentence summaries. 19:31, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

I think a volume summary is better then short-chapter summaries and as was said is probably best to have either one or the other. @ST: Personally, I'd remove even the episode "short" summaries from Episode Guide. The reason why pages like Episode Guide and Chapters and Volumes had summaries in the first place, was because that format was imported from Wikipedia. Since on Wikipedia they don't have single volume/episode pages, they added the summaries in the listing page. However, since we have the possibility of creating such pages, I feel it's redundant to keep "short" summaries in "listing pages" when we have the single dedicated pages.

I think I like short-short chapter summaries better than a volume summary, though I'm not entirely sure... And I agree with Kage, chapter cover images aren't necessary.

I see no problem with Kage's proposed layout, so let's go with it. 20:20, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

"Just do it" - Nike PS: I am for short chapter summaries 18:00, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, just do it. And I think the summaries are there mostly to serve the purpose of being user-friendly.

Also, we should probably keep the Chapters and Volumes page around so we have a place to note the chapters not yet published in volume format, and rename it "Chapter Guide" for consistency. In fact, maybe we should redo the whole Chapters and Volumes page as well to match the Episode Guide page format (tabs) because it's really a pain to scroll down and find everything. As for volume summaries, each volume (except 1-3) already has one on the back cover so we could just copy that if we wanted. Just saying. 15:59, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

The things on the back of volumes aren't really summaries, they're teasers. Then again, it wouldn't really be prudent to go into detail like in chapter long summaries, so collecting short short chapter summaries would be a happy medium. 20:41, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, it's been a few days and no objections to my layout. Clear majority is for having short short chapter summaries. I'll just close this discussion, add the layout to One_Piece_Encyclopedia:Guidebook/Page_Layouts, make the necessary templates and then we can start making the pages. (Let's do it nice and slow, by the way; No creating empty pages for every single volume as fast as possible.) 22:26, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

SBS- Probably no merge, too long already by itself and pages useful for referencing. Unless we do tabs.
 * I don't think you need to make a table for the author's notes, just add the image with the text aside.
 * So... are we not merging SBS/Notes/UGP?

Notes- I guess we could merge. I like how we explain where the notes are located on the Author's notes page though. I agree that we don't really need the table though.

UGP- Sure. Don't really mind it going either way. Like the notes though, I like having a place to explain what it is. Maybe we can move the explinations to the Chapters and Volumes page. (as tabs?)

Actually, lets just merge UGP and Notes. Information on Chapters and Volumes page, content on separate volume pages. 17:20, June 9, 2015 (UTC)

Project
To make the page-creating process easier, here's a list of Volumes, divided into ones without pages, ones with incomplete pages and ones with completed pages. 01:33, June 9, 2015 (UTC)

Update: For incomplete volumes, mention what needs to be completed. 02:13, June 10, 2015 (UTC)

Update 2: Changed this a little. For Volumes with pages, mention anything that could be added (can be optional). Bold print priorities. 19:09, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Would it not be best to work in a certain order? rather than creating random pages without any order?... 00:12, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter, but it might make at least my life slightly easier haha. More than that though, quality over quantity. Speed is awesome, but don't focus on just making all the pages, focus on making them all look good! We have all the time in the world. (^^)  03:12, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

Update 3: Crossed out "volume changes" are missing from page, but most likely not needed. 15:02, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

Update 4: Bold print priority pages to be made. 03:08, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

Volumes without pages (54):

Volumes with pages (24):
 * Volume 1 (Scans for early morgan and pirate flag segments, Volume Changes)
 * Volume 2  (Rough draft scans, VIKING context, Volume Changes)
 * Volume 3 (Buggy evolution page header scans, Volume Changes)
 * Volume 8 (Stub main SBS page, Volume Extras Images, Volume Changes, Trivia)
 * Volume 12 (Stub main SBS page, Volume Changes, Trivia, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 29 (Volume Changes, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 40 (UGP Images, Volume Changes, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 52 (Volume Changes, UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 54 (Volume illustration, UGP Images, Volume Changes)
 * Volume 58 (Volume illustration, UGP Images, Volume Changes)
 * Volume 61 (Author's Note improved translation, Volume Changes, UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 65 (UK Release date reference, Volume illustration, K15R Full Translation, UGP Images)
 * Volume 66 (UK Release date reference, KEY Corner Full Translation, UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 68 (UK Release date reference, KEY Corner Full Translation, UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 69 (UK Release date reference, UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 70 (UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 71 (UGP Images, Volume illustration,  Volume Changes )
 * Volume 72 (UGP Images, Volume illustration,  Volume Changes )
 * Volume 73 (Rest of UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 74 (Rest of UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 75 (Volume illustration)
 * Volume 76 (Front inside cover image, Rest of UGP Images, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 77 (UGP section, Cover spine information, Volume illustration)
 * Volume 78 (not yet released)

Useful Links:
 * Chapters and Volumes
 * Author's Notes
 * Category:Usopp Gallery Pirates Images
 * Easter egg series collection
 * Shueisha references
 * VIZ references
 * Category:Volume Illustrations