Forum:Discord Chat Implementation

Greeting everyone ( .___.)/

So you have probably been hearing about this for a while. For the past two months I have been experimenting with a new medium in an effort to help users better communicate with each other and help grow our wiki. In the last two months, around 60 different wiki users and I have been using Discord Chat in an experimental setting to see if it would be suitable for use on the One Piece Wiki. Today, I am going to finally propose the implementation of Discord Chat for use on the One Piece Wiki. Before I go any further I would like to briefly talk about the history of chat. Special:Chat was first introduced to the wiki in 2011, and at the time it was a major game changer for the already 5 year old wiki. With the introduction of Special:Chat users were able to better communicate with each other and lead to an increase in wiki activity. Although Special:Chat has managed to stand the test of time for a while, in recent years its popularity has begun to dwindle. Nowadays it’s mostly empty, and the days when we are certain to have people are on chapter release days. Even when chat does have people, we barely ever manage to have 10 members online and we rarely get any new regular users. Now, Discord Chat is going to change the playing field once more. It’s 2016 (five years since the introduction of Special:Chat) and it’s about time we got a major upgrade.

So what exactly is Discord you may ask?

A quick answer would be: "a browser based chat for communities such as ours". Discord is a chat service that you can use on your browser without having the need to install anything. http://i.imgur.com/86ZaTWY.png

So what does Discord have to offer?

1. Discord has all benefits of a video chat service including emojis, uploading images and videos, adding friends, voice calls, etc. Discord is well known for its bots that can do a plethora of tasks, like searching stuff on the Internet, responding to simple questions or helping out with moderation. http://i.imgur.com/mpXuxuo.png

2. A sleek, fresh, and modern interface

3. The ability to create roles. Roles are essentially group names that may or may not have special rights. On the test server we have Crewmates, Bots, Yonko, and SupremeBean. Each role has a different color.

4. The ability to change your online status and get notifications when you’re mentioned.

5. It will get us a lot of new users! I helped Attack on Titan Wiki set up their Discord Chat last month and since then their once dead chat is now flourishing with life as they now have over 100 new members.

6.It will allow users and editors to be able stay in better touch with each other. With Discord, you can leave another user a message and that message will stay on the server whether it be on the main sever or in the pm. So now you have the ability to communicate back in forth without having to be always be online at the same time. This also great for when you want to message another user something private or personal, because talk pages aren’t exactly the most private….

7. Discord has a much more stable structure than a Wikia chat, because Discord is made to be a chat and Wikia chat is just a side feature of a wiki farm. Discord client is much less likely to crash and lag than the Wikia chat client. This in particular is in important. Our wiki chat is always lagging and pms have been known to crash a lot and that will most likely never be fixed. With Discord you can be assured you will have a smooth chatting experience.

8. Unlike our normal chat, Discord’s chat room is divided into several "channels" to talk about different topics (akin to the boards in this forum). As of right now our main channels including a general channel, a spoiler channel, admin channel, and an off-topic channel. Also another to thing note is that users have the ability to mute channels if want to stop receiving notifications.

9. Admins will find the admin channel to be very useful. The admin channel allows the admins to communicate with each other much easier than ever before. How? Well, the channel would be only be granted access to the five wiki admins and unlike normal chat if you leave a message in the channel, it will stay and you can scroll up to see the history of comments/discussions. So you guys are able to stay in touch without having the need to all be online at the same time.

10. Group pms! Remember how we used to have that and then it broke? Will it’s fully functional on Discord and there’s no limit to how big you can make the group.

11. Pinning important messages. Discord allows admins to pin important messages on the server. This is perfect to let users know when a poll or talk page is going on when they enter chat. http://i.imgur.com/XywhHHB.png

12. Voice Chat and Video Calls! Discord offers users the ability to talk with each other live! All you would need is a mic and sometimes headphones work too!

FAQ:

1. How long would it take for Discord Chat to get set up? If the majority of the wiki agrees with adding Discord Chat, it would take around a week to set up. It would take a few days for Staff to approve the javascript and get everything adjusted on the current channel.

2. Will my user rights carry over? All chat moderators rights will carry over. An admin would just have to create a role called “mods” and give them the power to kick and ban like regular chat.

3. How will we know who is who on the server? Admins can disable the ability for users to change their nicknames and we will require all new members to identify their wiki username when they join chat for the first time.

4. What about the issue of users being able to delete and edit their comments? There’s a bot that keep tracks of modified and deleted edits. Only admins will have access to that.

5. Will the old chat stay if Discord gets implemented? That depends on you guys. It’s possible to keep both chats, we’d just have to create a hyperlink underneath the Discord Chat module. http://i.imgur.com/ljVGkfL.png

6. Do we have to download anything? Nope, nothing mandatory. But if you really want there are optional desktop and mobile apps to enhance your experience.

'''For those of you who haven't joined yet. I encourage you to do so. Don't knock it until you try it''' Invite Link: https://discord.gg/USPmUCa

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/wanpies/images/d/db/Discordlogofinal1.png/revision/latest?cb=20161111145618

15:24, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion
Sounds like a good idea to me. The bigger our userbase is, the better, and it can attract new users because Discord has been growing in popularity. 15:44, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

^ Looks much more appealing than the current chat here. Most of the time it's dead with only one person on. With this we could have more users HiddenAssassinxxXX (talk) 15:47, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

While Wikia Staff has a wide array of features they need to pay attention to and maintain, Discord has a developer team that's dedicated to make it have the best features for its purpose.

On top of that, Discord has a special app that you can get for most types of devices, so it's easier to carry around and access than Wikia chat.

Lastly, since a number of other wikis also have Discord, you can join those too and have one access point to go to several wikis' Discord chats at once. Totally not to make you all join Wikia International server too

YATTA ヽ( ° ヮ° )ﾉ ☆ 2016年11月11日、16:02:00

I support Mihawk  http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/sedali/images/c/c6/Moha2.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/35?cb=20160826212954 Moha  16:05, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Full-heartedly support. Regular chat will never even come close to topping Discord and Discord gets regular updates for new features and they actually listen to user feedback Godess of Time Dimaria (talk) 16:13, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support. Just as long as the actual admins and mods are in charge  and we keep my korner. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:29, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support WolfLord315*Talk *🐺 My Wiki 🐺*Message Wall*CC Profile*Discord Server                            17:15, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah it's good so it should be used. SeaTerror (talk) 17:18, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I'm game, lets do it. Boy-Yo (talk) 17:38, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

better than opening 2 chromes at once, you dont need to re enter every time your comuter starts(if you have the program) and its much more organized... i will rate it 9/10  Nidvos (talk) 18:13, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I've been using discord since that faithful 3rd party twitch message (I won't get into that, unless you know what I mean) and well it has grown since then so I'm all in for this to be implemented.

The discord dev team are quite nice so it shouldn't be too much for wikia staff to implement it if and when they decide to do it. You can also install discord onto your computer or on iOS/Android for extra features such as notifications and better support since you're not on the browser version which imo is kinda crappy.

P.S. For those who have linux or people who love dev/upcoming test features they do have a PTB and a Canary version as well. Also what would happen to the current roles that are on the test discord chat? Dragonquiz (talk) 18:32, November 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * It's already approved by Staff http://dev.wikia.com/wiki/DiscordIntegrator. And roles would be adjusted to match those of the wiki 18:44, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

This is as unofficial as Skype, and Skype was a terrible idea. Oppose.

18:41, November 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Well ofc it's unofficial hence there's a forum. Also the difference is the Skype group you made was just a very bad clique. And if I recall correctly, you just made it into an exclusive club so you could keep certain users out ;) The point of Discord is so everyone can use it 18:46, November 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * The initial skype group was made for an entirely different reason than now. Now the group is just certain users that have been using it for 3 years but still anyone can be added. The man who made the first group (not saying names (k it was nova)) made it only cuz he wanted to be the only one there to have mod rights. That's why we left :D 18:50, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support it if staff are ok with it, since out of wiki chat, skype and this it's the only one that is alive. Also it isnt like skype since the link for the skype group was never made public because we didn's want it to be public. Most people on skype arent even active on here anymore. On discord on the other hand there can be all users, old and new and its pretty much like a better version of wiki chat. 18:46, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Staw, I made it so only I had mod rights. That way, I knew FT people weren't going to be added. It was for OP only. I made it entirely available, incidentally, I stated my Skype username clearly and asked people to inform me through that so I could add them. And who has the mod rights to this Discord channel, incidentally?

18:51, November 11, 2016 (UTC)


 * Literally everyone has mod rights. And I will step down once this forum is done with. 3 of the admins have control of the server anyways 18:53, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

About discord, i have no idea who has rights and who doesnt since i only joined yesterday and stayed for a bit, but in skype there was never a rule about OP only people. During the two something years that we are in the new skype group, me apo and fin have all modship and we only have had to use them once, to kill gal out iirc. But discord is nothing like what we have now on skype, its something new which the community loves and everyone can access it. And btw nova, if FT people want to come and chat with us in some kind of group, there is no reason to start kickbanning them, is there? 18:59, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

We agreed at the time, and there were no objections from anyone until months afterwards.

19:03, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Can we stay on topic?

I'm fine with Discord being implemented, it certainly has its benefits. Only if the original Wiki Chat stays as well, though. A few questions: 19:32, November 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Would people banned on the wiki be banned from the Discord server as well?
 * How would channel creation be regulated?
 * Can we purge the chat history from time to time or does it stay forever?


 * People banned from the wiki would have to be banned separately from Discord as well.


 * Admins would get to decide the default channels and newer ones could be added by popular demand I guess. We have a few samples channels already.
 * Chat history can be purged with use of a bot.

19:55, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support the One Piece Discord Server. It is far more organised than the current chatroom and provides the users different chatroom channels to participate in (it also has voice channels that so far noone uses them but they could come in handy in the future especially if used by the wikia admins and mods for easier comunication). The thing i like the most is propably the fact that you can read old msges if u just want to dissconnect. But the thing that discord shines the most is at its crowd control (no moba pun intended), meaning that its easier to monitor the users that enter the server and its also easier to discard the users are there just to cause trouble (spamming, offensive language, etc). The last thing id like to point out is the cool user interaction features (some users are into them). So to sum up its an overall good idea. The discord server is up for a couple of months now and so far so good, the current users are enjoying it. Dinosel (talk) 19:36, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support, and would be happy to skin up the module for this wiki so that its much more native to the wiki's design. -SPD ☎  ✎  20:54, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I support this change Meshack (talk) 20:55, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I've used Discord before too. Count me in too DiamondKnight42 (talk) 21:00, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I've been using Discord for a few weeks now and I like it. No lag, lots of different groups you can be in, plus an easier and sleeker interface. JUST DO IT.--Xilinoc (talk) 21:55, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

I whole-heartedly support this change. Discord chat in general is much more structured and customizable than wikia chat. Bots are easy to implement (and have been implemented in the server already) and can be used for music, utility, and other purposes. Discord is also much more mobile friendly for people who can't be on their computers all the time (e.g. me), and the channel function gives users the ability to mute whatever discussion they're not participating in. Finally, BetterDiscord allows for integration of emotes, backgrounds, and custom themes, while Discord in general has easy-to-use emoji importation.

 Night Talk  There is a terror way beyond that of falling.

The Discord channel has audio on the channels so yes i will support it. 22:16, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, Discord seems like the greatest path to take, with so much more versatility than the wiki chat. I fully support it. 00:52, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Wow I didn't expect a whole lot of support for a discord integration this is fantastic. Now the question is when will it be made/by who (or if the current owner transfers his ownership to an admin which will be better imo) and how populous it will be compared to the /r/OnePiece discord and the type of rules for each channel unlike the wikia chat where there's only channel for all conversations (imo that's pretty lame).

Arctic Blue, BetterDiscord (bd) is client side only so unless other people have it they won't be able to see those emotes even on mobile. Since discord now offers up to 50 server only emotes which will be plentiful since one of the admins or owner of the server won't have a twitch account to integrate betterttv (bttv) onto discord which will allow them to use bttv emotes on the wiki server as well as users of the wiki server to use those emotes discord wide. Dragonquiz (talk) 02:59, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm fine with keeping it for basically the reasons everyone else has listed. I'd rather we have it in addition to chat, though. 08:07, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

I support this.

 Cheese Ausar undefined    "I am Deathless. I am Ausar." 14:57, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Against implementation. I'd much rather keep discord and the wiki chat separate. Discord allows users to: I also dislike how many channels there are.
 * Impersonate others
 * Create multiple accounts
 * Sign up with a different username (I can't tell who half the people on discord right now are)
 * Edit statements after the fact.  Apparently admins can see edit and delete history.


 * There's all these channels on the sidebar, except there's no point because people post things that should go in its specific channel on the general tab anyway.

Speaking of abuse, what are we going to do about chat rules? Will we just completely rewrite them? I have a lot more to say but this is already a lot so I'll stop here. I don't mind the discord existing but I'd really prefer that it stay separate from the wiki chat unless we figure out a way to work out these issues. 15:41, November 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * With this many channels going simultaneously, its hard for admins to keep track of possible abuse.
 * When someone gets banned on wiki, should we really kick them out of the discord as well? That doesn't seem fair. It makes sense to ban someone from discord if they're being an ass on the chat, but if they're not, what's the point of kicking them out?
 * Temporary kicks are so much easier on wiki chat. If someone is being mildly annoying on discord, what are we going to do? Kick them out and then go through the hassle of re-inviting them into the channel?
 * Power- who gets the power and how is it arranged? I don't quite understand what rights each category has and why some are above others (cough Yonko cough Veterans). And again, if someone manages to impersonate, say, an admin or founder for long enough, do they automatically get promoted to supreme status? How will we prove that they are or aren't actually who they claim to be?

1. I don't impersonation would be an issue. You can verify the person's identity rather easily by asking that user questions. And admin impersonation is very unlikely...I can confirm for the fact that the AoD, Kage, and Yata on Discord are the real ones since I personally sent them the invite link while they were on Special:Chat. Plus if a user is banned their IP is banned so they can't sock their way back in.

2. This was a test channel so much of them would get deleted an we would only keep a few.

3. If someone gets banned from the wiki they should get kicked out of Discord of well, they can't use chat when they are blocked so they shouldn't be able to use Discord either.

4. The current roles are inconsistent they were made at random and don't mean anything. Roles will adjusted as such when this becomes official: crewmates (regular users), bots, chat moderators, and administrators. Pretty straightforward really.

5. Chat rules will remain the same of course. AoD and I have just been very lenient since this wasn't official otherwise we'd have booted a couple already.

6. Kicks on regular was pointless. You could just hit F5 and be back in a second. This way the person who gets kicked has a chance to think about his/her actions. And they can easily reenter chat through the module on the wiki. No need to reinvite. Discord works identical to a wiki chat but with more features.

16:01, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Still concerned about the number of random channels we have. Also, people only get kicked out of wiki chat when banned because it was automatic. It wouldn't be in discord, so is it worth the hassle? Nah... 16:07, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Already deleted a few. The final product would only consist of #logs, #general, #adminchannel #spoilers, #productive wiki work, and #bottalk. Only 4 of the 6 channels are public to everyone. Plus, we have 9 chat moderators to help out the admins in keeping track. Lots of other wikis like AoT wiki have successful pulled this off with way more channels, so we can too 16:13, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

You can't exactly AoT wiki a success since the concept is pretty fresh for them too, but that aside, I approve. I'm still slightly worried about the fact that people can sign up with things other than their wiki username, but as long as the tweaks you've proposed are made, things will probably be generally fine. We should probably fix the chat rules though. Add stuff like "spoilers only in the spoilers channel" "wiki work only in the wiki work channel" etc. 16:22, November 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * Admins are able to disable the ability for users to change their own nicknames. Only they will be able to change a user's nickname upon request or if they need to make the username consistent with their wiki username 16:28, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

There are important things I want to share, not looking at whether they've been mentioned or not, but here they are:


 * I have talked alot with Drake about this and I'm repeating it: There won't be any nickname changes happening on the server. The name visible with everyone HAS to be the wiki name. This will be enforced by the mods and admins.


 * About Roles: as Drake said, we will only have a few: Admin, Mod, Bots, and the regular people. Easy as that. The mods will be the exact same as here on the wiki, the current people that are helping us create and build this server will be demoted eventually.


 * About Channels: We will have a few. Here's a list that Drake and I agreed upon:

- General (= main chat)

- Spoilers (talk about spoilers go here, your own risk)

- Help channel (for newbies and people with questions, I advise having this unmuted for every mod)

- off-topic (we have general for this, but if it really clogs the main chat up, this is your place to be) (not sure this will stay, we'll see)

- productive wiki work (ONLY AND ONLY wiki work related things are put here)

- bot-talk (people can spam their bot things here without disrupting users like me and you)

- oh and admin/mod chats but hey we know what they're for

- We still have Kaido's Korner, do you want to keep it or not? I'll leave it up to you


 * About reinforcing channel rules: things will stay in their respective channels, and hey we have like 9 mods, let's actually put them to use.


 * We've demoted everyone that doesn't need their rights. Wiki Helpers and other wikia people will keep mod rights to simulate their power in the normal chat.

Any questions, any feedback, please do tell them. We need to know if everyone of you poops agrees with this organisation before we implement it. 16:59, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. I'm an admin at the Attack on Titan Wiki, and as Drake said, I was invited by him to join the One Piece Wiki's Discord server since I'm also a user of this wiki. After a short time using it I liked the idea and thought it would be a nice addition for our wiki too, since our old chat was dead 99.9% of the time (to the point where I once disabled it for a month and nobody noticed).

Our Discord server doesn't have a month yet and we have recently hit 186 users. Only a percentage of them are active though, but there's at least some activity at all times (more or less depending on the hour), and we have managed to build a small community which is slowly but constantly growing. Most of them are readers of the wiki who were never interested in opening a Wikia account but who have found in the chat a more entertaining place to spend their time; either talking with each other, playing with the bots or listening to music in some radio we put there.

We have channels to talk about the different aspects of the series, like manga, anime or even merchandise; and also wiki issues. We have a private channel for administrators where we discuss minor issues and we have found that it's way more comfortable than the forum or Message Walls; especially since we all have the app installed in our phones and can get notifications and talk in real time. We can also notify users when a new chapter comes out and talk about spoilers in its specific channel without spoiling anyone outside it.

Comparing Discord with Wikia's native chat is unfair because it's incomparably more powerful. Not even Skype is that versatile. So far we all have liked it and we don't plan to come back to that old, useless chat.

I write this in a "my experience" style because I honestly think it would be great for the One Piece Wiki to have their own Discord server. Since this wiki is much bigger and active than ours, I don't doubt you will also be much more successful.--Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 18:14, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

I believe having it will bring more interaction between users and better information sharing. Discord overall, more superior to Wikia's inferior chat service. --GamerTimeUS 19:49, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

I'm all open to having the discord server as the official chat. I've been using discord for months, and been in the test server for a few weeks, and I really like Discord as a chatting client. The test server needs some more work, but after all, it's still in the testing period. And I support removing Kaido's Corner, since its purpose is basically the same as the general channel.

I have a few questions about the discord though. What are we going to do about people who don't have a wikia account but have a discord account and join the server? I don't think kicking them out of the server is a good idea because that'd make us hostile to new users and drive away potential editors. What I'd recommend is making separate roles clarifying that an user doesn't have a wiki account or something along the line. That way, we can still identify who are who, and without driving away new people. For example, a new person join the discord server, and a mod or admin ask whether that person has a wiki account or not. The person says that he doesn't have one, then the admin/mod will give him the role "No wiki account". If the person does have a wiki account, then the admin/mod will change the nickname to match the username on here and give him the role "has a wiki account", so no one will be confused on who are who. (P.S. I'm sorry for the bad names for the roles, that's all I can think of right now XD)

And what will happen to the wiki chat? Will it stay? Will it be disabled? Should we hold a funeral for the wiki chat? Or will you guys just wait for a time and decide later?

I suggested a few ideas to improve the server in discord, but I'm going to say this again on here so everyone can see my suggestions. We should make a rules/welcome channel, with all of the rules in the channel but no one can message in it other than the admins. It would be the first channel people would see after joining. An example of this would look like this. Everyone would see it, but only the admins can post in it. That would definitely fix the problem of the rules on the server.

Speaking of rules, are the admins planning on rewriting the chat rules to suit the server? It seems fine to me, but maybe someone else have a few ideas for new chat rules for the discord.

By the way, because Discord have a lot of permissions, we should clarify which permissions do the admins get to have and what permissions mods get to have. The admins can decide what permissions do the admins and mods have, but the users should know as well. (For people who don't know what permissions discord have, there's kicks, bans, as well as adding emojis, giving nicknames to people, server management, adding/removing roles, etc.) Since a lot of users are still new to discord, it would really help clarifying which rights do admins and mods have.

Lastly, with the transfer to Discord, I heard some people being concerned over possible abuse of permissions. I would like to say that if you cannot trust a certain mod with certain rights, then it's a grave sign that the said mod probably does not deserve the position in the first place. So I'd like to recommend the admins to evaluate who can stay as a mod and who might not need to be a mod anymore in the process of transferring to the server.

Welp, I ended up typing a lot but that's all I can think of for now. If I think of anything else, I'll post again on here. 20:03, November 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm just going to address one of your topics for now because it's a lot. I thought of doing something like this for the module http://i.imgur.com/2drFAKq.png That way we can have Discord without having the old chat module too on the rail. The old chat would be accessible with the link below. Since the Discord module shows who is online anyways, no need to have a second chat module show another list of users as well. We can just make sure two chats are interconnected. The old chat will have the Discord link when users join "Welcome to Chat. Join our Discord server here" and then the Discord welcome bot can link the old chat when users join there as well. That way the 2 chats are in a sense linked and no need to clog up the wiki rail  21:00, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

I recently joined the Discord, and I think the layout is much better than our current chat. Not sure about the admin/mod rights and how to regulate those, but I approve of the general implementation. 23:30, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

@Drake I don't like your proposal for the module. If we're going to keep both chats, then Discord shouldn't overshadow the wikia chat, and vice versa. In your proposal, it's so easy to overlook the link to the wikia chat that so many people won't even know it exists. I say let's keep both chat modules if we keep both chats. 03:10, November 13, 2016 (UTC)