Talk:Donquixote Pirates

First appearance
Shouldn't be the first appearance be the same as doflamingo? Since he is the captain, the crew first appeared with him.

I don't think so, since he only began to form his crew after the timeskip. If he was talking about being in his own crew, I can understand. But in this case, the Donquixote Pirates didn't exist until Donflamingo decided to start it, which is as far as we know, after the timeskip. 23:42, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

How do you know he didn't have this crew pre-timeskip nada? It's silly to assume he didn't. 23:47, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

It's silly because he did have the crew before... Vergo was already infiltrated in the marine long before two years ago and since Law "used to be" doflamingo's subordinate there was already the crew. He did not build his underworld connection in just two years.

You make a decent point, Leviathan, but we never see, or learn, that he is affiliated with pirates until after the timeskip. Before then, he could have just been his own man; his own Warlord self. Maybe he didn't build the underword connection in just two years. But until proper backstory is revealed, then the safest thing to assume is that their first appearance is after the timeskip. Before then, we never learned any connections. 23:58, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

He was affiliated with Bellamy in chapter 303. It's safe to assume he had the rest of his crew as well pre-skip. 00:01, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Straw Hat Pirates, first appearance, Chapter 1. Does this influence anything at all? 00:10, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

@PX: Yes. At the end of the chapter, Luffy began to set sail and start his crew. In Chapter 1, the Straw Hat Pirates had a maximum of one crew member. You're not in a crew at birth. You start your crew when you decide to. Before the timeskip, we don't know if Donflamingo started his crew yet, so it's actually speculation. 00:13, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Nada he's a warlord. All warlords are pirates. They all have some sort of crew. It's safe to say he had his crew post timeskip, seeing as how Monet was sent to PH by him during the timeskip, and Law was in his crew before Sabaody. 00:15, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why are you so cautious here... I believe it's actually speculative saying that the crew was formed during the two years... before the time skip there were alredy involved with doflamingo Vergo, Bellamy, Law, Disco and we pretty much know that dressrosa was already his base (or at least he had another "island where the affairs were going well" [first shichibukai meeting]). The "wait until it's confirmed" principle is applied only if there is ambiguity or uncertainty. Do we have a clue that indicates the possibility of doflamingo's crew was formed during the timeskip? No, we don't, so that's a speculation and there is no reason to say otherwise. If yuo do have such a clue, then it's another story.

@Pacifista: actually I'm against saying the straw hats appeared in chapter 1, I believe the crew was formed with the going merry and the jolly roger, I said that in that talk page too. Anyhow, Rufy and Doflamingo are two separate cases.. doflamingo wasn't a rookie the first time he appeared (it would have been the same case if doflaming appeared first in chapter 0 then the manga).

We never had a clue that he formed his crew before Chapter 678. During that scene where Donflamingo and Kuma are in the Marine base in the Jaya Arc, could be at a time where Donflamingo wasn't forming his own crew. And maybe it could, but we don't know that. It's not silly to think he was on his own, nor is it silly to think he had his crew for a really long time. The point is, we don't know if Donflamingo started the Donflamingo Pirates in his first appearance. That's what I'm saying. 00:22, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

The Straw Hat Pirates thing was directed at the idea that a crew can have only one member, but that doesn't seem to be the issue anymore. Here though, I agree with Leviathan that there is more evidence to suggest that Donquixote's crew was in action for some time. The association with the Bellamy Pirates and Vergo's infiltration of the Marines lend far more credibility to this argument than assuming that he might have just recently started this crew. 00:32, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I should be more clear. I'm not saying it's a fact Donflamingo formed his crew during the timeskip. I'm saying that Donflamingo didn't necessarily start forming his crew before his initial introduction. If there's a flashback of the crew, with Vergo or Law or somebody, and the event is BEFORE Donfamingo's meeting during the Jaya Arc, then I'll retract my arguments. 00:37, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

His jolly roger being present at Jaya is more than enough proof. 00:42, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's right.
 * Good point, but that jolly roger appeared AFTER his first appearance. He could have started forming at the moment he confronted Bellamy one last time. In fact, that could be foreshadowing. 00:50, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

But he had already subordinates! Leaving Bellamy aside, there was Vergo and most important two years ago Law already quitted his group meaning that his group is older the two years too. Seriously, I understand what you are saying, but won't you admit that's over thinking? If we start doing this kind of speculations argumentations the we have to doubt everything, for example who said that Garp is human? Nobody, then sould we wait to confirm that he is indeed human? No (this is obviously a different case, but I believe it's still the same kind). As I said, if there is no clue in favour of your hypothesis than it's just a speculation and we simply shouldn't worry.

What chapter did Law say he quit Donflamingo's crew? Did the flashback take place before Donflamingo's meeting at the Marine base? 00:50, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Really doesn't matter now Nada. We know Bellamy was associated with Doflamingo before that, so yeah. 00:53, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

It does matter, because we don't even know Bellamy was associated with Doflamingo's current crew. The only reason he's still in the template is because we made that more as his affiliations with other people/groups. We did it before it was confirmed to be an actual organization. I'm asking for an answer to my question, not a change of subject. 00:55, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

It's not a change of subject. His "current crew" and "old crew" are one in the same, due to having the same jolly roger. Bellamy was part of his crew around Jaya, and therefore the crew first appeared around there. Hopefully this silly discussion can end now. 00:59, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Saying both crews are the same is the second silly thing that's been said in this discussion. The first being "I want an answer", which shouldn't be said, because the question should be answered. A flashback of the crew that takes place before Donflamingo's meeting is the only evidence to show that Donflamingo's crew truly first appeared aat Donflamingo's introduction. Besides, he was no longer part of the Bellamy Pirates at his introduction, so there's no connection. 01:03, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Doflamingo's introduction was before he cut off Bellamy. So... yeah. 01:05, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Doflamingo's introduction was after he left the crew. Just answer the question, please. 01:07, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

After who left the crew? Bellamy was still a part of Doflamingo's crew after his introduction. So.. yeah. 01:11, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

What chapter did Law say he left the crew, and when did the flashback take place? That's the question I'm asking. You're taking this discussion to a completely different direction. This would actually be over by now if you would answer me, instead you're only dragging it on. To answer your question, because answering questions is how discussions get closed, Donflamingo actually had the Bellamy Pirates under his wing (I thought he was part of the crew and left, but I was wrong). This doesn't mean the Bellamy Pirates were part of the Donquixote Pirates. The Bellamy Pirates were under one person, not an entire crew. Now, could you please acknowledge my question: When did Law say he left the crew? 01:18, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * To answer the question about Law...in chapter 673 Law says that he was a member of Doflamingo's crew "in the past", proving nothing. In chapter 690, Doflamingo just says "back in the day", again proving nothing. Therefore, that entire argument is pointless, and should be stricken from this conversation (unless of course someone can provide a more correct answer). 01:24, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

@Pacifista: Thank you for your response.

@Leviathan: I'm mostly trying to follow the way this Wiki works. We don't know if his crew began before his initial introduction, and all his subordinates could just be under him as a person, not as a captain. If the captain appearing before the crew is formed means the crew is introduced, then that's like saying the entire captain's history is part of the crew. If that's the way it works, then the very first thing the Straw Hat Pirates did is stab under the eye. I believe a crew is born when somebody says "I am now a pirate.", and I'm pretty sure that's also what the Wiki does in its crew introductions. This really isn't a big deal overall. If we find history of the crew that takes place before Doflamingo's introduction, then we'll just change the "first appearance" number and insert the events into the page. If he started his crew after his first appearance, for example what the page says now, then we don't need to do anything. You may say I'm overthinking it, and maybe I am, but sometimes that can be for the better (read 12 Angry Men for a good example). We know for a fact the crew appeared in Chapter 678, and we don't know the crew appeared before it. Until then, it's best to keep it the way it is. 01:34, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah... but we do know he had a crew at his introduction.. so yeah... 01:38, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Trololol &#34;Eh, you&#39;re probably the kind of guy who&#39;d find a mule shitting in a McDonald&#39;s kids meal bag entertaining. You&#39;re nothing special.&#34; (talk) 01:40, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Doflamingo himself is a part of the crew, so his introduction should be noted here. That seems to be what we do for most organization pages that I could find in a quick search. (except for Dragon and the Revolutionary Army) 02:16, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

But did Doflamingo start the crew before his introduction? That's the big, unanswerable question. 02:23, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

He was a Shichibukai at the time he was introduced, which means he had to have once been a pirate with a crew before. There's an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence that suggests the Donquixote Pirates have been around for a long time, and no evidence to suggest otherwise. If we're wrong, then we can change it, it's not a big deal. But for now, it seems extremely likely that they've been around awhile. 06:23, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

"Vergo himself was a pirate, but before becoming famous, he enlisted in the Marines under Doflamingo's orders, and ascended the ranks for about fifteen years, eventually becoming a vice admiral" thats proves it vergo has been a member of Doflamingos crew for about 15 years.81.111.192.120 10:40, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

@Pacifista: "in chapter 673 Law says that he was a member of Doflamingo's crew "in the past", proving nothing." - proving nothing? Maybe you are overlooking the fact that Law two years ago was on his own, so if "in the past" was in doflamingo group that means he was before two years ago. Since the whole point of this discussion is if doflamingo had the crew already during the first appearance, then this prove it. Also as the anon said, Vergo is another strong point, and there is Monet too which was already with Ceasar 4 years ago. Someone said that they could have been simply under his orders without being in his crew, well but let's say that we encounter a pirate which has other pirates under his command, how do we call his group? Maybe XXX Pirates? @Uknownada: you think you are being caution, but as I said before this kind of argumentation are inconsistent with what we do on the wiki... if there is no doubt, there is no reason to doubting... how do you know that doflamingo is a human? Nobody said he was... than this means we shouldn't add him to humans? That's not the case, since there is no reason to doubt that. My point is that you cannot generally prove something be true, but only to be wrong. Since there is no evidence leading to the conclusion "this group was formed during the timeskip", then the group was already formed 2 years ago and this is true until proven otherwise, which in that case we will correct the page.


 * Not really. Vergo was "by himself" (not outwardly associated with a crew) for a while while he was in the Marines. For all we know, Law could have been in the crew as something resembling a field agent like Vergo. Since no frame of reference is given for Law, we shouldn't use him as a point of evidence is what I'm saying. And I was talking strictly about Law, not about Monet or Vergo's time for working for Doflamingo. 12:54, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

JustSomeDude and Anon actually made good points...especially the Anon. The crew is over fifteen years old now, and that's evidence I didn't consider. So...whellp, I got stumped. Change their appearance to Doflamingo's first. I now know the crew existed. 13:39, December 13, 2012 (UTC)