Talk:Gomu Gomu no Mi/Gear 5 Techniques

Gomu Gomu no Mi or Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika
I know that there may be plans to change all the Gomu Gomu pages to Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika pages, but before you do, can I make a suggestion? As Nika is basically only the awakened form of Gomu Gomu no Mi, can we just change the Gear Fifth page to the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika page? This way, hundreds of pages won't have to have their links altered from Gomu Gomu no Mi to Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika. Please consider. (Shadoguardian (talk) 15:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC))

There are no plans to rename the pages as of now. 15:58, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Rubber Hose Animation and Tom and Jerry?
Based on what has been shown so far, is it possible that Gear 5th takes inspiration from the Rubber House Animation and the style of Tom and Jerry?4th Six Paths (talk) 17:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Chapter 1028 Cover?
Should Luffy's design on the cover of chapter 1028 be credited as being the design or foreshadow to Gear 5th?4th Six Paths (talk) 18:52, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

No, Gear 5 isn't on fire. And the Nika design appeared before then. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 18:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Given Gear 5's overall effects, it's less of "Super Saiyan" and more of "Sun Wukong attaining Buddhahood"
After all, Dragon Ball took inspiration from Journey to the West. Tsukiyomaru0 (talk) 14:15, 2 April 2022 (UTC)


 * There is no direct connection to Sun Wokong yet. Damage3245 (talk) 14:32, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Could someone not adding something in trivia? Nika-Luffy vs. Kaidou resembles Goku vs. Freeza, and Gear 5 is as a simple design as the Super Saiyan God. Newgate438738743 (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

There isn't a significant enough resemblance between the two fights to warrant being mentioned in a Trivia point. Damage3245 (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Powers: Reality bending + Immortality?
Now, I might be getting a little ahead of myself, but aside from what is already written I think Luffy has access to two certain powers: Reality bending and immortality.

It's a bit of a stretch, however, claiming that he's "stretching through people" might not be a wholly accurate description. Rather, through the power of his imagination, Luffy seems to bend reality so he can achieve such feats.

Furthermore, his seemingly immortal physique might be an extension of the aforementioned reality bending, or due to being an awakened zoan, or due to being a deity, but Luffy's current ability to sponge up attacks and shake them off is basically invincible. Even advanced Haoshoku + advanced Busoshoku infused attacks, that Kaidou threw at him, which should bypass the Devil Fruit's defenses, were wholly ineffective. Aside from getting burnt and a bump on his head, both lasting less than a page, Luffy hasn't spilled a drop of blood since awakening.

What does everyone else think? (Shadoguardian (talk) 16:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC))

I think he's just more flexible than ever, which allows him to pretty much shift his form around attacks in ways normal Luffy couldn't. Like the Five Elders said, his rubber body has been granted new freedom.

There's nothing saying he's immortal. He still feels pain. KingCannon (talk) 11:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Ability to Levitate?
Something I brought up in General discussion but still unsure about. Does Gear 5 allow Luffy to float? Not sure how else you can explain how he was able to stay up in the sky long enough to clash with Kaido and deal Bajrang Gun without falling, especially since he had already let go of Kaido by the time he threw the punch. It didn't seem like he was doing anything with his legs like he would with Gear 4 to "fly".

The Power of Imagination
I'm seeing entries on the Gear 5 page that state that Luffy has the "power of imagination" and that "he can make anything possible", which is resulting in a lot of misinformation about what Luffy's powers actually are, so we should probably clear this up.

Gear 5th appears to grant Luffy two specific abilities, which are: A) The ability to dynamically stretch and reshape himself, and B) The power to turn surrounding objects rubbery (including other people). While this results in a fighting style that's evocative of old cartoons, most of he's actually doing is just applying the two aforementioned abilities on top of his previous techniques. He's not manifesting things with his imagination or anything.

Not to mention, the part about him getting stronger through laughing [|comes specifically from concept art from before Gear 5th was finalized]. So I don't think it should be taken as a canon source on Luffy's abilities. (Derpalooza) (talk) 00:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes and the eye popping thing in particular was used years before. It is not from Gear Fifth. SeaTerror (talk) 18:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

joy boy
so when luffy awakend his fruit, zuensha ( cant spell it but the zou elephant ) said joyboy has returned. so does that mean that Joyboy ate the hito hito/gum gum fruit? so shouldnt we mark the previous user as Joyboy?

Gear 5 wearing off GIF
Well, guess I have to be the big boy here, Ethan2awesome.

So: GIFs are intended to be used on Abilities/Powers pages to show effects that only work in motion. Yes, the manga panels do technically work. But anime is, as a rule of thumb, preferred. The manga is only used in the instance where the anime does not replicate the manga 1:1 or otherwise visually changes a scene in such a way that capturing it visually is incredibly difficult. However, that's where GIFs come in; if a GIF can visually demonstrate an ability that otherwise cannot be properly captured in a still frame, then they are a valuable tool in the toolbox.

One such example, courtesy of yours truly:



For reference, here is the manga image that was used prior to this GIF. It is, to use your own parlance, "2 simple panels", whereas in the anime, it would be difficult to use a specific still. The tree being destroyed? Perhaps, but it'd be hard to tell how it were being destroyed. The GIF succinctly displays the ability being demonstrated, while also being more visually appealing.

Now, to anyone in the peanut gallery, here are the two images being fought between:



This is, effectively, the same scenario as the Haki image: a multi-panel concept that was hard to replicate in a single frame. However, thanks to a simple GIF, this idea can be demonstrated as depicted in the anime. Except you decided to undo it..."because?"

If you can provide an actual viable reason for why this shouldn't go up, then fair enough. But "I don't like it" just doesn't cut it, and I've been through enough edit wars in my day that I'd really not have to deal with this crap of spending 30 minutes making a GIF only for some guy to smash that Undo button and go "me no likey". The Pope 04:17, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand why you're choosing to insult me over this, but alright. To be clear, I never once reverted it because I "didn't like it" or "because". My reasoning for reverting it stems completely around necessity. Let's look at your example. In that case, where you can't see the haki in the manga, and it's sort of abrupt, it does make sense to use a clip from the anime. It absolutely does look better in that case. For this case, however, I cannot express the same approval. This is simply looking at the image and clearly seeing the process with no difficulty whatsoever. It's literally right to left. Why is a long gif apparently required to show off that process? It seems entirely unnecessary for something so simplistic. I simply do not see the point in a gif for this. Thank you. ethan2awesome 23:36, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Ignoring the fact that you didn't get approval for the GIF (on either this or the original file's talk page), there's no reason for this to be uploaded as a GIF, as Ethan2awesome pointed out. GIFs are for "something that simply cannot be described between either image or text" (from Image Guidelines) - the manga version of this demonstrates the subject perfectly fine, in a simple structure that can be easily understood. I would argue the Busoshoku Haki GIF isn't even needed, but at least that one clearly shows the action in better detail than the manga counterpart; Gear 5 wearing off is already shown more than sufficiently in the manga version.

This exact image has actually been discussed before, informally, which you would have learned if you had attempted to get approval - which, might I add, is a discussion we've had before here, a bit over a month ago. I'm not sure why you thought this time you wouldn't need approval for a GIF, the Guidelines haven't changed.

I'd also like to know where "anime is, as a rule of thumb, preferred" comes from - it's not part of the official Guidelines, so it seems more like a personal distinction. The Guidelines just point towards using whichever version shows it best, anime or manga; and if neither of them work as standalone images, then we use GIFs.

Also, one last nitpick, related to the first message more than the image - there's no "[being] the big boy here". The person attempting to make a change is responsible for creating a discussion about it, not those who oppose the change. Walrsu (talk) 04:40, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I've been around for over 10 years, and I swear at one point the ruling was to stick to anime when possible. Either that's no longer the case, or my memory's failing me.

As for the Environment Manipulation GIF, the issue there was that there was too much going on, which is why I acquiesced. That's really not the case here, and this is a much simpler case where there's really no issues with the GIF, beyond "I'd prefer the manga".

And lastly, hitting undo without pinging a person or bringing it up in a talk page when the edit is a good faith edit is, yes, not "being the big boy". Vandalism, yes, I get it. But when someone actually spends time on an edit and then someone just undoes it because "I don't like it", that's not exactly going to elicit a positive response. The Pope 05:42, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

My point in bringing up the Environment Manipulation GIF was to point out that you were ignoring the process for uploading a GIF, even after being explicitly told about it. When uploading a GIF, it should be discussed on relevant talk pages before it's implemented into an article. An example of this being done correctly, which you actually participated in, would be here. The lack of a good image was brought up, and a GIF was agreed upon as a solution. Both here and in the case of Environment Manipulation you unilaterally decided to upload a GIF and use it on an article, which is not how they're supposed to be implemented. You either didn't pay attention to/didn't read the first part of what I said on the Environment Manipulation, or intentionally ignored it.

As I mentioned above, replacing this image with one from the anime has been informally discussed before, and if you had prompted a discussion about uploading a GIF, you would have been informed of it. Instead, you uploaded the GIF without asking, then got mad when people disagreed with it being uploaded.

There are no issues with the GIF, true, but there are also no issues with the manga image. The purpose of using GIFs is specifically when existing anime or manga images do not suffice, which is not the case here.

Ethan2awesome didn't hit undo because "[he] doesn't like it", he explained that a GIF was unnecessary. You then escalated into an edit war instead of starting a discussion about it, and when you finally did, you insulted him in the first sentence - not exactly being the more mature one.

I also want to point out that any arguments of "I'd prefer the manga" go both ways - you simply "prefer the anime". Nobody's preference overrides anyone else; consensus is what matters, and by ignoring the process for uploading a GIF, you ignore what the consensus may be to force what you prefer, whether intentionally or not. Walrsu (talk) 05:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I mean, I just kinda stumbled onto that talk page. In retrospect I could've just posted the GIF here before replacing it. Though counterpoint, Ethan2awesome could've very well just posted on here to state why he wouldn't want it, if need be. I didn't "get mad" when Ethan "disagreed" about me uploading a GIF, I got mad about him undoing my extensive work within minutes without any preemptive discussion on the matter whatsoever. As for there being "no issues" or a GIF being "unnecessary", you could make the exact same argument regarding the Narikabura GIF, which had a manga panel replaced with a GIF. I'd argue that this GIF is just as "necessary" as that might have been, that being in this displaying the progressive nature of Luffy's transformation regression. Him calling it "unnecessary" was completely subjective, i.e. that he didn't like it.

If enough of a consensus were on here to stick to the manga panels instead of the GIF, fine. I just take umbrage against anyone just blanket-undoing a good faith edit; it's lazy and thoughtless. The Pope 06:09, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

The policy around GIFs is to get approval first because of their significant impact on page loading times. If an image can do the same job, we need to use it in order to prevent the over-use of GIFs. This has been part of the image guidelines for about a decade at this point. The manga image does the best job in this context.

I think for any user to undo an edit that goes against the Image/GIF guidelines is the right course of action. Maybe a more detailed edit summary could have been given, but I don’t think it’s fair to accuse other editors of bias when they’re following wiki policies. 11:09, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Look, I didn't want to say anything else, but I figure it would be best to leave this with a final response on my part. To Buh, I didn't mean to offend you by reverting your work. My intention was purely based on the Image Guidelines statement, "something that simply cannot be described between either image or text". As JustSomeDude has stated, the gifs impact loading times on pages, which is detailed in the Image Guidelines. I suggest you read those and familiarize yourself with them before you spend an extensive amount of time on your gifs. It would save you a lot of your own time, and prevent something like this from occurring again in the future. ethan2awesome 08:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

As I've laid out, plenty of GIFs exist where a manga panel could hypothetically work, but using a clip from the anime is more aesthetically pleasing. This seems cut-and-dry no different from the likes of the Narikabura situation. The Pope 18:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree that the manga panels are more than sufficient. This differs from the Narikabura situation since the still shots of the manga and anime could not include both the swing and effect of the attack, and the manga page layout didn't allow for including the multiple panels. Here, the manga shows the progression in a simple set of panels. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 18:57, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Fruit ability: affecting other people
Sigh...guess I'm gonna have to do this every other edit if I'm just going to get instantly-undone if I want to save a page from being locked for a week.

Okay, so: the cartoon bug-eyes on non-Luffy people. Yes, this is a side-effect of Luffy's ability; it is diegetic, not just a goof from Oda. It would be one thing if it only occurred on the one panel of Luffy smashing his head through the rooftop of Onigashima and everyone reacted wild, but it happened there, Kaidou's eyes bugged out when Luffy grabbed him, and in one of the more recent chapters, everyone's eyes popped out of their head when Luffy grabbed Kizaru. In the same way that Luffy is able to make his environment rubbery, he can force other people to play by his "cartoony" physics rules. It's really not something that's questionable at this point. The Pope 00:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Oda has been using this sort of gag well before Gear 5; he even addressed it in SBS 31. While Gear 5 has upped Luffy's cartoonish effects, that doesn't mean we're meant to take everything so literally. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 01:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Different things. Chopper's hat flying off is a visual gag. Luffy's Gear 5 power is explicitly making things cartoony. In this instance, we are absolutely supposed to take what happens literally. It is unquestionably a part of his power. The Pope 01:04, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Apparently you intend to immediately nuke the image while the issue is being discussed due to it being "unused" for a total of one hour, so here.

Now it's being used. The Pope 02:05, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * ..."Image Guidelines violation?" Care to explain? The Pope 02:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It's still just a visual gag to emphasize the shocking and ridiculous nature of Gear 5. If we were meant to take it literally, then surely one of these affected characters would have mentioned or reacted to their eyes popping out of their heads. Compare that to the other cartoon-like changes that charcters have specifically addressed.


 * Also, nothing productive comes from edit warring over images either. Leave it deleted until the discussion resolves. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 02:50, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Or you could've not deleted the image until the issue was resolved. That would've worked too. Not sure what "image guideline" it broke, unless you were just coming up with an excuse to delete it.


 * Anyway: in the case of Chopper, it's in character for him to cartoonishly overreact, and the hat thing was an extension of that. Meanwhile, we've seen Law and Kid, characters who generally are rather serious, perform the same bug-eyed reaction as Nami and Chopper, and that's to say nothing of the panels literally showing Kaidou's eyes popping out of his head when he's being yanked around, plus Luffy punching through Kaidou's head, and also Luffy being inside Kaidou's body. Like, it's literally been drilled in over and over and over that this is part of Gear 5th's power: it's not just Luffy that becomes cartoony, but others within his proximity take on that cartoony effect too. In that exact scenario of everyone reacting to Luffy, if it was just his giant head, do you really think Oda would've used the exact same eye-popping effect that he's been using for Gear 5 Luffy's exaggerated reactions?


 * It's not a visual gag. It's a part of Gear 5's powers. I'm really not sure what more evidence you'd need, Oda's spelled it out over and over at this point. You might as well be asserting that the sky is red because you say so. The Pope 03:06, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * So unless you can actually prove that the cartooniness being applied to other characters isn't part of Gear 5th's powers and is instead supposed to not be taken literally (unlike every other cartoony aspect of the ability), I'll be putting that paragraph back up. I'd rather not go through another edit war over nonsense again, and this time it's not even over a GIF, it's over a basic agreement on how you perceive diegesis. The Pope 22:34, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Trying to rush discussions is unproductive, and threatening to continue an edit war will end up with the page locked and you potentially banned.


 * You are the one making the claim so the onus is on you to prove that the eye-popping is meant to be taken as literal. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 00:14, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I kinda did? I listed a multitude of instances in which the power is meant to be taken literally, namely how it affects characters who never react in such outlandish ways and all in matching manners (Kaidou, Law, Kid, etc.). While yes, Oda has been cartoony in the past, in this case it's meant to be taken literally, since Gear 5th's powers are entirely based around making things cartoony.The Pope 02:46, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * So...yeah. The Pope 02:05, 4 October 2023 (UTC)


 * So I've given my proof, so am I expected to just sit around forever now? I hesitate to say it's "rushing discussion" if you're not responding for 3 days. The Pope 17:24, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm genuinely unsure of what you expect me to do at this point; I've proven my point, you've given no further counter-evidence, nobody else is partaking in this conversation. All signs point that I should go ahead and make the change because otherwise this conversation has ground to a standstill, yet I get the impression that the moment I do that you'll undo it and slap my account with a ban for "rushing the discussion" or "not talking it out on talk page" or some other BS. The Pope 01:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I was giving other people time to chime in and for you to find actual proof of your claim. Neither happened, it seems. Again, this is just about the eye-popping aspect, not Luffy's ability to extend his rubber-like qualities to his surroundings. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 12:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

So there are four intersecting elements:

1) Luffy's base power gives him rubbery aspects.

2) Luffy's awakened form causes him to become cartoony.

3) Awakened fruits allow them to turn other things "like themself."

4) Since Luffy is both rubbery and cartoony, he is able to turn other things both rubbery and cartoony.

This is not a metaphor, this is meant to be literal. It's why Luffy was able to bounce around inside Kaidou's body, to fly out of his eyeballs without causing any kind of serious damage to Kaidou's eyes, and why Luffy could punch straight through his (and Kizaru's in the most recent chapter) face without tearing a hole in it. The bug-eye effect some characters display is an extension of this.

I understand the argument of "Oda's done exaggerated reactions before", except Gear 5 is meant to be taken literally in-universe. You might as well be arguing that all of Luffy's cartoony effects are just "the same over-exaggerated effects" he's done through the series, but no, it's an actual power of his. So yes, that is "actual proof" for what's going on, even if you disagree. The Pope 16:41, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * So...yeah, if you have no additional dissent beyond "I don't agree with your interpretation of events but cannot provide evidence to the contrary," I'd like to go ahead and return the page to how it was before you undid it, please and thank you. The Pope 19:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

"Luffy's awakened form causes him to become cartoony." Not quite, the expanded control of his rubber-like body and the added ability to extend those rubber-like qualities do lend themselves to a wacky fighting style that resembles cartoons due to them bending and reshaping people and things beyond normal; however, that's not the same as saying that the awakened ability turns Luffy and those around him into cartoons. That would be an entirely different powerset and would require a greater rewrite of the article.

"Awakened fruits allow them to turn other things 'like themself.'" Where is this quote coming from? It doesn't seem to align with what the series has shown us about Devil Fruit awakenings.

At the end of the day, the series is still a cartoon and won't lose the multitude of aspects and embellishments that go along with the medium, and that's all the more reason not to take everything so literally, as Oda pointed out so long ago.

Side note: Don't post spoilers in Talk Page discussions. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 20:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm personally waiting for an instance of a character's eyes popping out (or something similar) to be used as an actual plot point. Not an important plot point, it can be something like a character just acknowledging that it happened, but I want a real acknowledgement of it. Until we get that, I think it's just a visual gag and shouldn't be taken as something that is literally happening to the characters. So far, the only times Luffy's powers have meaningfully effected someone else is turning their bodies into rubber, which is how we would expect Awakenings to work. There hasn't been a real moment with any consequences where Luffy makes another character "cartoony" without touching them. DewClamChum (talk) 00:49, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I mean, it wasn't a "plot point" per say, but Luffy affecting Kaidou's body during their fight definitely displayed the power at work.


 * As for the Awakening thing, I guess substitute "is" with "creates"; Katakuri is a weird case where he really should be Logia but Oda kinda changed his mind at the last second, but both he and Doffy have shown the ability to turn other things into the thing that they normally produce. While Luffy doesn't "produce" rubber, he is rubber in the same way that Katakuri "is" mochi.


 * Also, I think it's pretty blatantly obvious that the idea behind Gear 5 is that he's cartoony, not "makes things rubbery". Him being able to shake off burn marks like a cartoon isn't "being rubbery", his exaggerated reactions isn't "being rubbery", being able to literally grab lightning bolts isn't "being rubbery". There's a reason the meme is calling his power "toon force"; his base level is basically just the "powered down" version of being a cartoon character.


 * At any rate, Kaidou's eyes bugging out, surviving his eyes being blown out, these are all effects of applying cartoon effects to Kaidou, not "rubber" effects. It's really not that hard to see. The Pope 05:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)