Talk:Kozuki Momonosuke

Animal?
Since he "changed into a dragon" should he be human and animal? or should we wait untill "Zoan Dragon fruit" 22:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should wait until we get more info. Besty17 (talk) 22:09, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Is that dragon REALLY him?
I don't think that picture should be in his infobox. I actually agree that is Momonosuke, but it isn't confirmed yet. All we know is that he's a dragon now. Could be any dragon. Doesn't mean it's this one (though it probably is). 02:04, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

It's unconfirmed and very presumptuous to have him as the dragon now. Be patient and wait (2 weeks! ARG!) for the inevitable confirmation. 02:10, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

It could be the eastern dragon that Luffy met in Chapter 684.OhJay (talk) 07:13, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

It's confirmed now, so can we unlock this page? Are You Serious (talk) 13:06, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Picture?
Should we use his dragon form or his silhouette? Are You Serious (talk) 14:23, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Should be his dragon form for now since it will probably be awhile til we see his human form.94.254.95.13 14:29, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

The human silhouette would be better. The dragon is more to look at, but if we have a his real appearance then we may as well use it, even if it is shadowed. 14:31, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Flying ability
'''Look at the panel in which Momo and Luffy "fly". Momo is grabbing the clouds he himself exhale to climb. ''' Aoshi shigamori (talk) 20:41, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Wow...what the hell's up with that? He can make island clouds now? 20:53, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Design
Shouldn't it be stated that his Dragon form design resembles Shenron from Dragon Ball? TomNamikaze (talk) 15:58, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Oda is a huge fan of Dragon Ball and it's most likely but I don't think we should write it in the trivia..


 * Comparisons to other series have often been rejected from my days here at the wikia unless it was a hugely unique design that had no doubts behind it. Even DBZ's dragon wasn't unique, so while highly likely its true, its not impossible to put a finger on it 100%. One-Winged Hawk (talk) 10:22, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Airborne
In the latest anime episode, Momo was seen, in a non canon flashback, flying in his dragon form without the use of clouds whatsoever. Should this be mentioned in his abilities section or as a manga-anime difference?

He's walking on the clouds. 11:48, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Not in that scene. When he escapes from the guards in the forbidden room. He floats out without usind the clouds.

Well, maybe he just jumped or something. I don't know cause I don't watch the anime but if you are sure about it, go ahead and add it. 12:08, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I am sure but I'll wait for some more opinions cause i wouldn't want to spend time to constract the post only to see it get effortlessly deleted in 5 seconds ^^

Go ahead an add it. Nobody has complained. 18:10, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

I added it as an anime-manga difference last week.

Refusing Food
I never got what the deal was with both him and Kin'emon in the refusing food from others. is it some part of Bushido or did I miss something in an episode?Lightningbarer (talk) 01:10, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. It's a bushido thing. Accepting handouts from others or acknowledging your hunger is seen as a sign of weakness or something like that. I don't know the exact thing. 01:39, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

It most likely is a bushido thing, but during the scene when Sanji fed them, he realised that something has happened to them, so there could be more to it than that but we'll find out in the future if there is. Anima40 (talk) 07:25, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

Surname
Momonosuke's surname is confirmed to be "Kozuki" in Chapter 817, but would this go before or after his name? Stream puts it after. 13:44, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Before in Japan, after in... well, almost everywhere else. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:02, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Should it even go on the page title at all? The pages of several other characters whose family names were revealed later weren't updated to include it (Sanji, Viola, Rebecca, Scarlet...), so I'm not sure Momo's page needs it. But if it does, I'd say it should go before his name; every name in the series aside from the Bascùd siblings follows the Japanese order of putting the surname first. Unless the Japanese manga itself puts the given name first, I don't think it should be any different.Totoofze47 (talk) 00:01, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

Unlike the characters you've just listed, he was referred to as "Kozuki Momonosuke" in the chapter. But yeah, the name's there and everything's fine. 00:15, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

Thing is, the Japanese manga will never give the surname first, because that's just not how it works there. If we follow that rule, shouldn't we at least put a note somewhere about it? • Seelentau 愛 議 17:38, February 26, 2016 (UTC)

^Tell that to Kelly Funk and Bobby Funk. KingCannon (talk) 00:19, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

We used to say "Tell that to Edward Newgate", then it turned out that Edward was his family name. At this point, I wouldn't have a hard time believing that the Funk Brothers are actually unrelated to each other but share the same first name. Or maybe their full first names were "Bobbyfunk" and "Kellyfunk" and the family name was never given. 01:14, February 27, 2016 (UTC)

Hearing the Voices of Poneglyphs
Although there is of course no conformation and is just inferred Chapter 817, I think the moment where Momonosuke is feeling ill and complaing of the "voices" while he and his party climb the Whale Tree is a scene worth noting on his page. Specifically when he complains of the voices Kinemon notes that this diposition was very similar to his father Lord Oden, who we already know could understood Poneglyphs. Inu and Neko then speak amongst themselves noting Momo's statement about "hearing the voices" is much the same as one of another man they previously encountered. In the following chapter it's revealed that Gol D. Roger had been on Zou before and was friends and possibly crewmates with Lord Oden. Rayleigh has already informed us that Roger understood poneglyphs despite being unable to read them, as he could "hear the voice of all things". Anyway, I'm not suggesting that we explicitly say Momo is able to hear the voices of Poneglyphs but that the scene where his party climb the Whale Tree is an interaction worth noting. Reeves92 (talk) 23:24, March 9, 2016 (UTC)

That sounds like speculation. 00:13, March 10, 2016 (UTC)

I agree and it's why I mentioned it might be best to simply mention the interaction, the fact that he struggled with "voices" on the way up the Whale Tree. And then simply leave it at that because like you said at this point the rest is speculation.Reeves92 (talk) 02:06, March 10, 2016 (UTC)

Now that the new chapter is out, it is worth mentioning it, the ability to hear the voice of things. I agree with Reeves92. Feroza (talk) 07:12, April 1, 2016 (UTC)

I edited it out, it's not confirmed at all, and has no place regarded as a fact. He, same as Oden, heard "a noisy voice" the closer he got to the whale, which is the closest point to Zunisha's head in the city. It could easily have been Zunisha's voice, since Momo has no reaction whatsoever once in front of the poneglyph. If someone wants to edit it back in, as a theory, and speculation go ahead, but there's no evidence to state it as a fact. ElChOrC (talk) 11:26, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Momo and Oden having the exact same experience with Zunisha as Luffy and Roger, who had been previously shown to have the ability, pretty much only leaves VOAT as the option here. Luffy hasn't communicated with a Poneglyph either, doesn't exclude him from having the ability. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:20, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Momonosuke's age
This is an issue that I want to clear up once and for all. As KaidoKingofBeasts said before, Momonosuke did not live in the 20 years he jumped. He only teleported to another point in time. Therefore, Momonosuke only has his biological age. If he was in suspended animation like Aang from the last airbender, then we add a chronological age.Fliu (talk) 02:17, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

The year you were born doesn't change. Time travel doesn't matter. SeaTerror (talk) 04:40, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

He is 8 years old, and was born 28 years old. He lived 8 years, no matter when he was born ElChOrC (talk) 11:28, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

That's why chronological and biological ages would be different. SeaTerror (talk) 17:45, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

The year of birth doesn't change. An age is the amount of time the person has lived, and Momo, Kin'emon and the rest didn't live during those 20 years. If the only criteria for age was the year of birth, dead characters ages should be updated. Rhavkin (talk) 17:50, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Chronological age is how many years someone has existed. Biological age refers to the maturation and decay of the body. Sugar has lived 22 years in a 10 year old's body, Momonosuke has lived 8 years, period, since he didn't exist for 20 years. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:55, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

That's why biological age is 8 and chronological age is different. SeaTerror (talk) 17:58, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

My explanation literally outlined how his chronological age is 8. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:00, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Chronological is when you are born. Biological is how long you have actually lived. SeaTerror (talk) 19:45, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

If he has only been alive for 8 years, then he is 8 years old. 20:13, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Just say he's 8 biologically, 28 chronologically. 05:09, April 10, 2019 (UTC)

Think of it this way: How old would we have said he was if he had been from the future who was sent 20 years into the past? Would we've said that he's chronologically negative 12 years old? Then if he grew up during the present and turned 20, would we've said that he was chronologically 0 years old? Does that even make sense?
 * 🏴‍☠️👸🏻 (talk) 06:00, April 10, 2019 (UTC)

I never said to add his chronological age to the infobox. I'm just saying by how years of birth work that the ages would be different. SeaTerror (talk) 19:28, April 11, 2019 (UTC)

Vivre Card Spelling
As much as I like Kozuki, Vivre Card has spelled it Kouzuki, which is not a misspelling, but just an alternate form of romanization where the ō's are spelled ou. Since we've followed other Vivre Card spellings, we might as well follow it again unless manga romanized it Kozuki.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 19:52, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

I agree. It's not the first time Vivre Card romanizes kanji with wapuro (e.g. Luffy-tarou, Zoro-juurou). Cdwp22 (talk) 20:34, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah if there's no other spelling then we're supposed to change it. That's why Jarl's page was just moved too when it was most likely a mistake. SeaTerror (talk) 21:12, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

No. Kanjuro and Sentomaru, whose names are kanji, are spelled as "o", just like Japanese romanization system. We must follow the Japanese system for Japanese names. The inconsistency comes from VC writer's ignorance, we have no need to be at the mercy of it. --Klobis (talk) 23:27, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure Jarl being Jarul is a mistake. Jarl is a fan romanization. The official English one had always been Jarul. But that aside, Oda has done stuff like Hyouzou before. Oda's pretty inconsistent himself. Nightmare Pirates (talk) 23:53, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Oda himself has only done ou when spelling names that way. Zou is another example. SeaTerror (talk) 17:45, August 6, 2019 (UTC)

Hyouzou and Zou are katakana names, like Luffy and others, which can be Western names. Kozuki, Kan"juro", Sentomaru are kanji names, which are Japanese language. --Klobis (talk) 06:46, August 7, 2019 (UTC)

Isn't this just romanization preference? I know the wiki prefers to stick with a specific romanization style, but with romanization, there's no right or wrong, only preferred vs not preferred. Japanese language/kanji can still use this form of romanization.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 08:09, August 13, 2019 (UTC)

It is a preference that stemmed from a databook that wasn't done by Oda because the name spellings just happened to be single vowels. Oda clearly has a preference for double vowel romanization when talking about the manga directly and his own notebooks. He still uses single vowels but not as often as double vowels. SeaTerror (talk) 23:20, October 23, 2019 (UTC)

Wano Trivia
"It's irrelevant unless Oda later claims he based it all off a non canon cover." Just going to copy and paste my original comment in the edit summary. SeaTerror (talk) 23:20, October 23, 2019 (UTC)

I'm so-so about this trivia being on Momonosuke's page, since he and the dragon there don't look particularly alike aside from color (and Kaido's an eastern dragon as well). The other connections that are definitely trivia worthy, like the Kozuki symbol and Luffy's kabuto armor, are fine just staying on the Kozuki Family trivia. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:30, October 23, 2019 (UTC)

We have a Kozuki Family crest like symbol and a pink eastern dragon. It is trivia worthy in every way. The armor part is the only thing that doesn't belong here. Rhavkin (talk) 05:38, October 24, 2019 (UTC)

I guess as long as none of the trivia claim that Oda planned it then they're ok to have. SeaTerror (talk) 19:02, October 27, 2019 (UTC)

Mythical Zoan
Why is Momonosuke ranked as a Zoan-type DF user and not a Mythical Zoan-type one ? Since we learned the Fruit was made from Kaidou's Mythical Fruit, shouldn't Momo also be a Mythical Zoan user ? There's no real reason to classify it as a "normal" Zoan.--Loiciol (talk) 12:24, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Actually, since Category:SMILE Devil Fruit Users is just two subcategories, maybe it should be renamed to Artificial Devil Fruit Users and place Momo there? Rhavkin (talk) 12:56, 27 September 2021 (UTC)