Forum:One Piece World

Original discussion

 * From Talk:Animal Species/Baroque Works Saga:

If island whales come from the West Blue then why are they in the New World 15:05, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

They come from west blue, but west blue is next to new world, so that means they travel across Calm Belt and Grand Line (new world) and possibly north blue.

Where's the evidence that the New World is on the left side? SeaTerror 17:39, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

SeaTerror's right. For all we know the pod traversed the Grand Line and made it to the New World that way. 21:22, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

The evidence that the New World is on the left side is here. It's clear from the map that the first part of Grand Line borders EastBlue (where they come from, the X denotes Loguetown).



That's right. I couldn't find a better picture, I'll add that one too on this page. a diagram of the one piece world, based on what we know (though it's in Italian). Basically the Red Line cut the world in two halves: the south-east one and the north-west one, Laboon came from west blue and now is stuck in the south-east one, while the other whales are in west blue and, as we seen, they don't seem to have problems crossing the grand line and calm belt (they are whales after all, not ships).

If that was how it worked then anybody could directly sail from North or West blue to reach the New World if they had a Marine ship. SeaTerror 00:07, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think for all we know, that's the case. What's the problem?

Indeed, Marine ships can sail the Calm Belt like we have seen during Amazon Lily arc, but only a Marine ship, for a pirates is nearly impossible to do that. Remember that we are talking about whales, they don't care less if there isn't wind in Calm Belt and they are big like, if not bigger, then Sea Kings while moving in a pod Sea Kings are not much of threat.

If that were the case then any pirate could steal a marine ship and just sail to the New World. That isn't how it works. SeaTerror 18:25, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it is how it works, but the New World weather prevents them from proceeding too much farther. I don't see how the whales being in the New World is that outlandish of a theory. 18:36, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

What is that is not correct? The original topic was "why Island Whale where in the New World since they come from West Blue" correct? What we know is: Since island whales come from West Blue the fact that they were in the New World simply mean that they have traveled there from their birth place. I don't think I said something so unbelievable.
 * Form the maps revealed thus far, we know the disposition of the ocenas in the One Piece world (The oceans are in two halves of the world: East Blue - G.R.(Paradise) - South Blue and North Blue - G.R.(New World) - West Blue)
 * We know that Calm belts surround the Grand Line, and make it nearly impossible for ships cross them since there is no wind and it's full of Sea Kings
 * The only "safe" entrance know is Reverse Mountain
 * The only ship seen to be able safely cross the Calm Belts are Marine Ships and the Kuja's ship
 * Island whales are originally from West Blue.
 * Lavoon crossed Reverse Mountain when was a baby and now he is unable to return back
 * We have seen a pod of island whales in the beginning of the New World.

SeaTerror.. Maybe some unknown pirate crews did.. Don't try to find logic in One Piece like that..


 * Let's leave aside the theories of crossing the Calm Belt or how do you exit the Grand Line (otherwise this conversation won't end), we were talking about the whales.

You realize the Grand Line would be around the entire world right? Not to mention if West Blue and North Blue were actually next to the New World then Hawkins and Bege would have entered the New World right away when entering the Grand Line. The most logical explanation is that the New World is actually on the other side of the globe. SeaTerror 18:56, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Is it so hard to fathom that they just swam up Reverse Mountain the way a normal ship does and entered the Grand Line that way? You guys are really overthinking this. 19:00, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, so to simplify things, we have determined that somehow Island Whales entered the Grand Line through the Calm Belt. Since they came from the West Blue, then they entered the New World directly. Or if this is wrong, then they could have swum under the Red Line, considering there is a gigantic gaping hole there for Fishman Island. Any problems with this? 19:03, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

How about we just say "They entered the Grand Line", then people can fit the pieces together which ever way they want. 19:06, January 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * What's this about Hawkins entering directly in the new world? The only way a pirate ship has to enter Grand Line is through Reverse Mountain, and I remind you that no matter which blue you enter the only exit is twin capes.


 * Then which are the blues next to New World? You can see in the maps above.
 * @Pacifista: the second option it's not possible since Usopp said in chapter 654 that Lavoon couldn't pass through F.I. hole in the Grand Line due his huge body.
 * @DP: I think there is only one fit, I don't understand the problem at all... saying that west blue is next to Paradise is wrong. (they couldn't enter in paradise and make it to the New World for the same reason I said above).

Does it really matter which blue is next to what? As for it being impossible for island whales to enter the New World, yes, it is impossible, when they're fully grown. When Laboon was with Brook he was roughly the size of a small horse or large dog. So, would it really be impossible for young island whales to get through the crack? We're talking 50+ years of growth here. The whales could easily swim through the crack at that size. 19:21, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, the problem is that there is no problem at all! I was just answering ST... what are we discussing on? Is the sentence "A large pod of island whales was seen right at the beginning in the New World, indicating that they travel across the Calm Belt and the Grand Line from West Blue."? Then even if you said was true (which is arguable) this sentence is still true, isn't it? I added in the beginning simply because people copied added Island Whales in the New World Saga's tab.

Oda gave us 4 maps about how it works, don't try to play Oda and figure out if the whales were big enough or not to pass.. They just did. Leave that aside. No reason to overthink it..


 * Who are you talking to? And I'm not playing Oda, about the fact the hole was too small I didn't say it, he was Usopp in chapter 654, I simply said that they don't have to pass it in the first place since they are on the other half to begin with. I think you guys are overthinking.

Which is why I said to just put "at one point they entered the Grand Line". Everybody thinks they went over Reverse Mountain because Brook instantly assumed that they were part of Laboon's pod. 19:35, January 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * It should "at one point they entered the New World" then, which is simpler, but isn't what it's already written?

What's wrong is to say the New World is next to North and West Blue. There is no evidence for it. If that was how it worked then reverse mountain would enter the New World at those particular entrances. SeaTerror 20:41, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

No wait, this is a fact, as you can see by the maps above and Reverse Mountain has 4 entrances, one for each blue, which all exit at Twin Capes. This was cleared up long ago.

It is clear that North Blue is actually on the other side of the Red Line compared to East Blue so it is divided by the Calm Belt to the Grand Line in the New World. The Island Whales are so freaking big that they can fight off Sea Kings, don't you think? It is plausible if you think about it. But you could simply wait for for the next chapter, I imagine that oda would explain what happened if he doesn't want to confuse us too much.

No it is not fact and it was NEVER cleared up before. SeaTerror 21:09, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should discuss this on the animal talk page, but whatever... you are clearly misunderstood something then, first what's your idea on the One Piece world? Like where are the blues? I don't understand how you cannot tell from the maps above... the red line cut the world in two sea-halves ok? Then the grand line runs perpendicularly to the red line, so it cuts those two halves in four sea: on one half you have south and east blue and on the other one you have west and north blue. Now if you look at the map of reverse mountain you have Paradise on the right (since there, there is the exit) and the new world on the left (next to the mountain on the right, there should be Raftel), for reference Fishman Island would be on the antipodes of Reverse Mountain. Now in the map the Est Blue is top-right (the x mark loguetown) hence the bottom right is the south blue (the south blue is in front of east blue beyond the grand line) and consequentially north and west blue are on the left side, next to the new World. There can't be other options. Maybe the sea names are misleading.

Yet you failed to have read my comment about how Hawkins and Bege would have entered the Grand Line. If they had entered from those seas and that the New World is on that side of the map then that means Reverse Mountain leads directly to it. If they had entered the Grand Line from Reverse Mountain that way, then that means they would have traveled through the East Blue side of the Grand Line. The ONLY logical explanation is that the New World is on the other side of the globe and you get there after going through the Grand Line and Fishman Island. SeaTerror 22:08, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

You still misunderstand how reverse mountain works: if, as you said, they would have entered directly in the New World than the Straw Hats would have entered the New World too, since there is ONE reverse mountain in the world and all its channel have the SAME exit, so it's either all the roads lead to new world or Twin Capes, it's obviously the latter. The Grand Line meets the Red Line in two points: R.M. and F.I, starting from R.M to F.I there is Paradise, which is half of the Grand Line (half world-round), then from F.I. to R.M.'s back is New World which is the second half, at the end of it there is (supposed to be) raftel which is behind reverse mountain since the world is a globe. When I say that on the left of reverse mountain there is the new world I mean that there is the END of the new world (in a sphere if you make a complete round across the world you'll arrive at the starting point). If you still have doubts then let me ask: what is there at the behind of Reverse Mountain's exit? These diagrams and this map maybe will help. Also think about Brook dreams: isn't it make travel around the world and returning to Lavoon?
 * It's clear from this picture.

You posted the same non-canon pic three friggin times, we get it. SeaTerror wasn't talking about the entrance from Reverse Mountain. He was talking about entering the New World from the Calm Belt, which is a theoretical possibility on a Marine ship. He's saying that if a pirate from West Blue jacked a Marine ship, then there would be no point for them to go through Reverse Mountain since they could just enter the New World directly by cutting through the Calm Belt. 23:02, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

That is entirely possible. They would just get destroyed in the New World. Anyways, why the hell does this matter? We have determined that the whales could have crossed the Calm Belt from the West Blue, and be in the Grand Line. I just don't see what is so hard to get about that. 23:07, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Because apparently some people have become overnight experts in whale migration patterns and want something a little more concrete than either/or. 23:14, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Aside from the diagram, all pictures here all canons (they can be found in the manga). Well sorry if I spammed the page, but if I left the matter as it was, it would have looks like there are doubts, which there aren't. For Marine ships in fact can theoretically go from west blue to new world, or from east blue to grand line, but hijacking one would be basically a suicide, remember that in Grand Line you still have to follow the Log Pose, so since you cut through calm belt you didn't recorded any island then you would aimless travel in the grand line. I guess the marines use eternal poses for that. And by Luffy's words "It's cooler getting in the Grand Line through the entrance", furthermore what kind of pirate would ever take a shortcut? Sorry again for being the bad guy here, but to me the matter was clear from the beginning. If there are still doubts I guess we should take this to a forum.

I didn't say it was the perfect plan or the most practical, just that it could be done. 23:42, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

You're not getting it so I took the most basic map and edited it. http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4337/map2l.jpg Where the red is marked you are saying that is the New World. So if that was the case then Hawkins and Bege would have entered the Grand Line where the New World is. SeaTerror 07:47, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Did you ever think that it's impossible for them to go there like that? Sea Kings, no wind, lack of a marine ship and so on. I'm sure that the marines can do that, but seriously, Bege and Hawkins didn't have the means to. Also MAYBE some pirates tried to do it like that, but rookies from a Sea that go directly to the freaking New World would lose their life from the start. Just think a little ST, Island whales are Island whales and Hawkins and Bege are Hawkins and Bege, you can't compare a group of whales the size of islands to simple pirate crews.

There was a elephant tuna (or whatever you cal them) in the east blue... And on Thriller bark... The way their world is designed, fish sometimes end up in waters far from their home. Its not just Island whales, but man species. Thats where the idea of the All-Blue came from, an ocean where they all collected due to the currents of the world. Its plausiable for the Island whales to end up in the grand line; so... Why ARE we questioning their pressence? This happens with fish and birds in the Real world all the time!Furrther more, real life whales, sharks and eels have known to cross waters to reach breeding grounds and prey. I know of at least one Killer Whale culture that travel several miles to hurt Great White Sharks, and its famously documented. One-Winged Hawk 18:40, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Second Part
Ok, so since the topic wasn't anymore animals, I copied all the discussion here. First, let me ask: where do you think people from north and west blue exit? They exit to Twin Cape, do you agree? Second, I don't understand why are you saying if that was the new world Hawkins and Bege would go directly to it... they would go to reverse mountain which exit the paradise. If you insist on saying "it's easier to hijack a marine ships and go there through calm belt", I believe there are several reasons:
 * The ability of the marines to cross the calm belt isn't a public fact.
 * It would be a suicide, without setting the log pose to an island (normally you start by registering Twin Capes) you would travel aimlessy in the Grand Line (new world which is worse)
 * It's not honorable, to become the pirete king you have to "conquer" the grand line, no pirate would take a short cut.

About your map, do you realize that there isn't "another side" of it? Maybe it's misleading because the red line is straight so you think that there is another side, but think about it: in the world there are ONLY 4 seas: north, south, east and east blue, the grand line cross the world, the new world is half of the grand line then it MUST be near some seas... which seas do you think the new world is next to? And if on the right of reverse mountain there is paradise do you think that on left there is paradise too? That's make no sense: the red line meets the grand line in ONLY two points, reverse mountain and fishman island, from r.m. to f.i. there is paradise (half world), from f.i. to r.m. there is the new world (the other half), you cannot have more other halves...

Look at this map I made: it's the Mollweide projection of the one piece world, your map would be the straight version of the left side. I don't understand why is so hard to get it.

SeaTerror, it is entirely possible that they could steal a Marine ship and cross into the New World that way, but they obviously didn't, seeing how they were at Saobody Archipelago. You don't seem to understand that when everyone goes up Reverse Mountain from ANY of the four blues, they come out at Twin Capes, NOT the New World. 13:35, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

So you're saying the One Piece world is flat now? SeaTerror 18:22, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

All of the four blues converge upon Reverse Mountain. All of them have a path that leads up the mountain. All of these paths meat at the top and come down to Twin Capes. I don't see how you get flat out of any of this. 18:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Are you saying that the Earth is ? Try to answer my questions and tell me what is wrong... if you still have doubts take a sphere, draw two perpendicular circumferences, now you divided the sphere in four areas, those are the four seas, one of the circumferences is the grand line and the other is the red line. Half of what you picked as the grand line call it paradise while the other half label it new world, now tell me how the new world cannot be next to two of the four areas (seas) you have?

You're the one who said it. "About your map, do you realize that there isn't "another side" of it? Maybe it's misleading because the red line is straight so you think that there is another side," SeaTerror 19:35, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I mean that in that map the Red Line is straight, the other half of the Red line would be on the right. But come on you can see it clearly in {{redlink|this map}. Do you think now that the New World isn't next to west and north blue? Then what there is next to it? You still haven't answer any of my questions or confuted any of my points, if you clearly tell your argumentations we can discuss but if you simply reject what I say then we won't get anywhere.

I have another examplwes of the OP world being flat (note; I should mention this is sarcasm here, sorry I couldn't resist that);

Incidently, you can see the red line and grand line clearly on that too if your paying attention to the centre globe. I must confess... I really don't get this topic... It seems really odd like someone is questioning something for the sake of quetioning it. Everything being discussed is present in the manga and quotable too for that matter very easily. We've had explainations for maps, displaced fish and Marine life, evolution, geography, etc, etc by now for evrything witnessed so far in the manga. I don't get the lengthy discussion, at this point its becoming a lot harder to track the conversation for those not in it and the longer it lasts the longer I question how much some of those try to question things here are paying attention to the details of the series.


 * By the way, it's not really clear where the seas are on that image... The proble is that SeaTerro says that New World is not next to West Blue and North Blue.

So if we've proven something, can we just accept it and let the issue rest instead of pointless continue to question things when people have already given the nswer? It is begining to feel like we're trying to get blood out of a stone at this stage. I hope I'm not sounding rude here, I'm not saying "shut up" or insulting you, I'm just saying there seems to be a little bit of stubborness, especially from SeaTerror to accept whats been thrown in front of the editors here. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 20:50, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

I moved the discussion here about the One Piece World because it was really spamming the animal species' talk page... it shouldn't be a problem discussing it here (I mean everyone talk about myths, theories or what they did when woken up). I'm sorry if I annoyed someone or flamed up this conversation, but I really want to try to reach a conclusion for once. Sorry if I don't want let it go, but if I do that it would seems that I will ignore SeaTerror and that there are unsettle matters or doubts in the one piece geography (at least at this level), and I'm surprised that this all come from SeaTerror who is an experience editor here (hence a old one piece fan), I mean we are the One Piece wiki aren't we? If we don't have clear what we know and what we don't know why are we here?

The conversation is reached this length because I still don't know SeaTerror's argumentations, and I tried to provided all kind of evidences that I find to convince him. I want to convince him, I refuse to believe that we cannot reach a conclusion on this matter, because if we don't reach a conclusion here than how can we ever think of discussing other matters on the wiki? (and I'm not talking about him, as wiki users we have to learn how rationally discuss things) We cannot always solve things by voting or by letting go otherwise we will pile up unsettled things or disputes, the recent World Timeline is a good example.


 * Ah.. that6 explains it. The reason this is hard to follow is you continued this over. Once something hits the forum, it becomes a formal discussion and debate of which the entire wikia can discuss openly, possibly resulting new rules and guidelines that help future situations. This is how I try to set up all my forum discussions. You may also have to recap on this every so often to keep everyone up to date. Just take that in mind. You should have transferred the entire discussion over as well if you are continuing this from elsewhere so evryone can see the past history of the topic.


 * We really have gone out of form in the last few years haven't we? You know, there was a period when we transferred a lot of discussions on talk pages automatically into the forum. I used to do that... Is it rude if I start doing that again? ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 21:36, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wasn't clear that this discussion came from a talk page? It's written in the beginning... and everybody can participate in a discussion in a talk page too : )... I moved it here simply because it wasn't anymore a discussion on animals but a discussion about geography, otherwise I don't see a reason to move it.


 * "If island whales come from the West Blue then why are they in the New World"


 * From that point onwards, the entire discussion is repeating itself here on the forum anyway whats on the talk page. I did read it, but my point remains; everything in that talk page and here can pretty much be proven so whats the issue? it feels like this is almost like a yahoo "dumb question" subject I often come across while on there when people don't do their research. Not quite as bad though as some of those discussions. I dont' mean to sound rude or anything but this is really easy to resolve and Iwhat I'm really saying here is "what is causing this to sake up so much time?" O_o' One-Winged Hawk 22:08, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * The casus belli was my sentence "They come from west blue, but west blue is next to new world" so the main point of the discussion was that. SeaTerror said that there weren't any evidence that new world is next to west blue and behind reverse mountain. The discussion goes onward on that topic (The first section is the part left on the talk page, the second part is its continuation here). So it looks like you find obvious what I said, that's why I keep insisting on trying to convince ST, since I find strange that we cannot reach a conclusion on a discussion that you said was a "dumb question". The issue is that I believe that if we cannot settle a "simple" topic like this how can we think of discussing things on the wiki?


 * So... My concluson based on this entire discussion is this;
 * Either ST needs to read the article and understand what he is making wrong
 * The article needs to explain and cover this better if he has read it and not understood it.


 * Either we can still point this out with a few dedicated images that show where the blues are... I think if Sea doesn't get it after a few images or anyone else, you just have to focusing on explaining this better in the article and updating it to detail this. Its sort of the point of the wikia to explain on the articles about OP stuff. Sea should be able to get that without the long lengthy discussions. I am not denying there isn't a point of discussion here, but somethings got to happen if Sea doesn't understand all that. This is why it gave me the feeling of a "dumb question", its aimed at Sea not the Whale thing. Its written in black and white in the OP page, but Sea Terror almost feels like he is question that there isn't a shade of red in there we haven't noticed this time. Wow... ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 22:55, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think the article (animal species) or any other has anything wrong in them... The discussion drifted from the article's topic so i moved here, which is a free-zone. I believe I have already provide plenty of evidences if you read my posts, that's why I'm insisting on this because since you think it's evident how come we cannot reach a conclusion?


 * This argument has become pointless. I don't see what is trying to be accomplished here. Are you trying to prove the world is round? Or can we just move on and say that Island Whales, which originate in the West Blue, travelled over to the Grand Line through currentyl unknown means? 23:37, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well... Technically if you re-read the entire conversation, you already came to various conclusions by yourselves, its just one or more partis were too stubborn to accept them. If I had a magic marker I'd highlight where you did your conclusions, but I don't know do I have the time to quote everything. I really can't add anything else at this point. Pacifista15 also seems to be in agreement on this discussion so I'm not alone in this thought. One-Winged Hawk 23:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Levi just tries to explain to SeaTerror why in, the New World is on the left side. That's all. The Island Whales are unrelated with this specific topic.


 * Wow, this is stuff I knew off by heart 4-5 years ago, I don't mean anything against Sea by that. You only have to look at a altas of the OP world to understand all this though. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 23:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's the point! If we aren't able to reach a conclusion on a matter like this with a fellow editor, things like Talk:World Timeline are bound to happen. Is it too weird hoping that we can rationally discuss something and reach a conclusion? Well probably this topic is drifted from an already drifted discussion... we aren't even talking about the one piece world anymore..

@Pacifista: Why is it pointless? I also start to think like letting it go, since I'm not really get much of response, but seriously, I started arguing with seaterror about the position of the seas, he thinks that I'm wrong so we are discussing the matter here, why should it be pointless? Until the matter is not settled it's only logical to continue the discussion... there are two forums about the next nakama, so what's the problem on talking about the One Piece World? I have already summed what we know of the One Piece World in this map. By the way, is the fact that the world is round in question now? The discussion was about saying that the New World is next to West and North Blue (basically that the map I made is wrong), the whales was simply a deduction, but I already removed it from the article.


 * It looks to me like SeaTerror isn't even arguing anymore. I think that you have established well enough that the world is round and that the four seas are positioned where they are. If someone refuses to accept them, then that is his/her problem. Basically, I think you are dragging out a closed argument. 00:05, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sea thinks your wrong? Aside from that blunder the issue is your right in what you are saying, which is what I've been tryinbg to point out here (I obivously failed). This is dragging out a closed conversation indeed.


 * Only one thing not mentioned here. The seas are named where they are because their world sits on a angle (which is also visiable in that globe image up there). North literally points north, west sits on the west side and east eastern side and south south side. Well, that is the theory, there isn't the natural spin of the world for day and night times or seasns taken into account with the naming but I don't think Oda intended to be that technical and prob. named them for simpliness sakes. O_O One-Winged Hawk 00:07, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

@PX15: SeaTerror didn't answer for 5 hours only... Maybe he's got a life, ya know! Anyway, if you don't like this discussion for some reason, why don't you just ignore it? (No offence meant!). @OWH SeaTerror still seem to disagree, so no, I don't think the discussion is closed.

I think we should go back to the actual topic now—which means we just wait for SeaTerror to say whether he got it or not.

Well if SeaTerror still disagree, we can discuss it here, if he changed his mind then the discussion is over. But why do you care of this discussion so much? Was I spamming the wiki? There are tons of forum of pointless discussions as well there are 4 new blogs per day, what's wrong with this forum? I appreciate the concern, but if you see the second part of this forum (the part created from when I moved the discussion) is made most of this discussion about the point of the forum. Now, back to the topic, since you seem to take as facts what I've already stated I hope you will participate in the discussion in case someone thinks otherwise.