Talk:Dressrosa Saga

New Name Change
With the Straw Hats now going to Dressrosa (I'd say it's safe to call the next arc the Dressrosa arc for the time being unless they end up sidetracked), it's apparent that, like CP9 and Baroque Works, these arcs will have an overarching thread: shutting down Smile production. Therefore, I believe calling the saga the "Smile Saga" would make for more sense, and would be more specific than "New World Saga". The Pope 19:10, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Saga should be called the Pirate Alliance saga. It's obvious enough. 21:20, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

I think they're both awesome enough, however how do we decide it? Do we open forum for users to vote or what? So that the rest of the community can give away their own opinion's. WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 21:25, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Nah. This is mainly a talk page thing. If nobody strongly objects, it gets changed. 21:37, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should all take a chill-pill and wait for at least one more arc. We shouldn't be so hasty. So far all we've gotten are hints and we could be using a much better name in the next 50 chapters, who knows, right now, I don't think "Pirate Alliance Saga" is that relative to the situation, I mean yes, Law's and Luffy's goals are indeed to defeat the Yonko, but it seems like something much more relevant will happen soon which will give us the proper name for this saga (Like, the troubles of Kin'emon and mysteries of Wano Country), let's just wait.
 * Ok, fine with me WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 21:43, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

The saga is obviously revolving around the alliance. That is the MAIN IDEA. 21:59, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Why are you in such a hurry… Wait and see.


 * Whatever the case, "New World Saga" is a bad name. Might as well call everything from Baroque Works to Marineford the "Grand Line" saga. They're going to be in the New World for the rest of the series; calling this the "New World Saga" is, well, dumb. Either "Smile Saga" or "Pirate Alliance Saga" is fine with me. The Pope 22:43, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

There's nothing to wait for. We know the alliance is happening, therefore the saga name should reflect it. 22:48, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

So...we going to do this or not? The Pope 15:33, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Even if it turns out "Pirate Alliance Arc" is an unfit name, we can just change it again. Why is keeping it as "New World" better than keeping it as "Pirate Alliance"? 15:42, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

What should the name of the current Saga be? New World Saga Smile Saga SAD Saga Pirate Alliance Saga Any of the above except New World Saga Something Else Any of the above (I don't care)

There. Try to get as many people on here to vote as possible, and let' settle this. The Pope 15:48, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Terrible poll format. With this, we can't determine who votes and who doesn't. Some random anon could walk in and vote, not to mention people with multiple accounts. 16:04, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Point taken.

All right, how about this then? I'm going to put down each of the options, and each of us will sign under whichever names we favor (you can sign as many names as you want). If you have a new name, feel free to also submit it in the same form that the others are in.The Pope 16:09, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

The poll should probably have it so that you can only vote once or twice. 17:20, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
The poll is now closed. The name will be changed to Pirate Alliance Saga.

New World Saga Smile Saga SAD Saga Pirate Alliance Saga
 * 1)   Apoelpaoole APO 19:16, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The Pope 23:54, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Besty17 (talk) 17:21, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The Pope 23:54, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The Pope 23:54, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  17:19, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  17:28, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Staw-Hat Luffy (talk) 18:35, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  20:05, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:06, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:08, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:25, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 00:58, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Memnarc (talk) 02:34, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Memnarc (talk) 02:34, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Two weeks on the poll? That's a bit much, isn't it? The Pope 17:47, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

My opinion is 1 week max, since the people who is voting has probably all voted in a week's time, and then we just have to wait an extra week for nothing... WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 17:51, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Poll is too soon. Wait a bit like what was already mentioned. SeaTerror (talk) 18:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * "Too soon"? We're already like a year into the damn thing. The Pope 19:59, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Just ignore ST. 21:06, February 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I think 2-3 days max is all we need on this; the final result is looking to be pretty clear. The Pope 21:11, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

You can change it. Polls don't have a set length on talk pages. 21:13, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Just drop it to a week. That should be more than enough. 21:14, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ignore Galaxy. He's still the only one that thinks poll rules only apply to forums. SeaTerror (talk) 21:15, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

If that were the case, Forum:Poll Rules wouldn't exist. Please learn to comprehend basic ideas. 21:20, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah DP, a week would be fine. 21:21, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Umm, why has "The Pope" voted thrice? 21:25, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

I removed his votes so he can revote. 17:26, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Uh, I stated from the start that you could vote as many times as you wanted. The Pope 23:53, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that Pirate Alliance Saga is a more fitting name than New World Saga at this point. In the past, sagas have usually been named for a location (i.e. Skypeia, Fishman Island, East Blue) or the primary antagonists (i.e. CP9 or Baroque Works). While the Whitebeard War Saga is an exception to this, as it does not take place in one definieable area, nor does it have a single antagonist group. Personally, I believe that the central antagonists will probably be Donflamingo and/or Kaido and that we may need to reexamine the name further on. That being said, New World Saga, while it might be a good name for the second half of One Piece overall, clearly doesn't apply anymore. Memnarc (talk) 02:42, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Then what about calling it Underworld Saga or Broker Saga in that case, because everyone of the "main" antagonists so far in the Saga are all underworld brokers, and it's mostly from there the "big" people do their business and stuff, and the most important of investigation between Kaido and Doflamingo happens there. Not that I have something against the names you guys have come up with anyway, it's just another view of the case, and that as far as I have seen it all of the guys who have made themselves a name in the New World at least have a connection through that black market. Again this is only my personal thought and if Pirate Alliance Saga or Smile Saga is chosen it's all totally fine with me :P WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 08:52, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

There's no need at all to name it after a villain. The saga is definitely focusing on this alliance to take down Kaido at this point. 08:55, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

The outcome is already decided but we have to wait four more days for the poll to close. 09:05, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

As I said before, this is just my personal opinion, and I think that such a name as Underworld Saga would fit perfectly, because nearly everything from the Saga so far has some kind of connection to the underworld and to the brokers whom is a part of it, except as you/Gal pointed out about the most important thing in my opinion, which is the pirate alliance, and i agree with you on that. WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 09:26, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I know it's up to the vote, but I really don't think we should call this saga the "Pirate Alliance Saga". As Law said in the beginning of chapter 697, both he and Luffy want to bit all of the four Yonko, not just Kaido, and I belive that it will take more then one arc, possibly until the end of the series. We still don't know if the alliance will last for one saga, two sagas or more, so it's not a good name to call the first saga in the alliance "Pirate Alliance Saga", because that name might even apply to the entire series. I know it's up to the vote and as I see it now "Pirate Alliance Saga" will be chosen, but I think you should reconsider because I think you are making a mistake. Strawhat1 (talk) 14:17, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I think we can call this saga "Kaido of the Beasts Saga", but right now we don't really know where this saga is going to or if they will actually fight Kaido. So I think we shouldn't give this saga a name just yet... Strawhat1 (talk) 14:22, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

We should name it Pirate aliance saga for now and if it takes more than one saga,we can change the name again. -- 14:27, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Why don't you vote SH1? 14:29, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

"Pirate Alliance Saga"? Isn't that a little too early to make this decision? The alliance has only just begun and who knows if it'll even hold for long. Therefore, I don't believe it's an appropriate name to give the Saga, definitely not now at least (same goes with "Smile/SAD Saga"). "New World Saga" is the only name that currently seems to fit even though it seems rather plain and simple. 22:03, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

As I said before we can change the name later. 14:40, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think we should name it "Pirate Alliance Saga" after Law clearly said that this alliance will last for more then one saga. We already have a tentative name for this saga, I don't think we need another one... I didn't vote just yet because I don't like the name "New World Saga" from the same reasons I don't like the name "Pirate Alliance Saga". As for the Smile and the SAD Saga, I think those names are a bit too dull to be the names of a saga. I think we should name this saga "Kaido of the Beasts Saga", but then again we still don't know if they will be fighting him in this saga. So, because it's too earlly to tell, I don't think we should name this saga just yet, and even if "Pirate Alliance Saga" is only a tentative name for now, I think it's a mistake to name it this way. I don't think we should change the name all the time when it's too early for all of them. We should just wait, and name it when we know what this saga is about. Strawhat1 (talk) 14:46, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I believe we should name it Pirate aliance saga for now because I don't think the other names are suitable: So this is the best choise we can make right now. 16:42, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Smile Saga: The saga is not focused there.Morover If we name this saga smile saga,we have to name the Baroque works saga to Dance powder saga
 * Sad Saga: same as above
 * New World saga: Many sagas will take place in New world

What about my options then? "Underworld Saga" or "Brokers Saga"? For me, they both seem to fit in everything in the Saga so far, except for the whole "alliance-thing". WonderfulUnicorn (talk) 16:49, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well calling the saga brokers saga sounds good and i find it suitable for this saga,but unfortunately the poll will decide. 17:10, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to jump into this conversation, if you don't mind. First off, I have been monitoring this conversation for awhile now and I would like to put my two cents into this conversation, if you don't mind. I'm going to break down all possibilities:
 * New World Saga: This is an obvious name for the saga because the Straw Hats are sailing through it. There will be many sagas just like with the Rookie Saga.
 * Smile Saga: We have to look at this like the Whitebeard War Saga. The arcs complied into there lead to the war. The current arc is leading to the destruction of the Smile.
 * SAD Saga: Same deal as above.
 * Pirate Alliance Saga: This seems like a likely saga name because of the nature of how One Piece functions. BUt in all honesty, I think this is also the less likely as the "alliance" between Law and the Straw Hats could go sour at any moment and Law could go rouge.

I just wanted to throw in my two cents. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 17:51, February 10, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Well I don't relly prefer the name pirate aliance saga but i think this is the best option.Also I believe that this saga doesn't lead to the destruction of the smiles but to kaido's defeat.However,there might occure other events that have nothing to do with kaido's defeat.An exemple is whitebeard war saga that seemed to end with the strawhats entering the new world but the events of sabaody lead to arcs that were inconcivable for us at the beggining of the saga.So i suggest we name the saga pirate aliance saga and if something happens,we rename it. 18:01, February 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Still not convinced but I guess, for now, we will have to go with Pirate Alliance Saga. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 19:13, February 10, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

I believe we've reached a consensus. The Pope 20:50, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Poll closes in 1h30 and the result is obvious,great 14:41, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

So, we good? The Pope 15:33, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Pirate Alliance Saga should be rename SAD & SMILE Saga which started from chapter 654 to 801 in total 147, and that Zou Arc should be included as intro to the Tea Party Saga starting from chapter 802 (LuckyPirate3110 (talk) 16:50, April 14, 2016 (UTC))

I'm trying to help with the name
Just talking, but i think the name should be "Kaido Takedown Saga", as that's the main point of it. Just a suggestion. 201.70.126.65 03:50, January 6, 2014 (UTC)

Saga Split
I believe once the Zou arc ends, we may need to split the Saga, else it may be too large. Perhaps making Punk Hazard Arc and Dressrosa Arc into the Donquixote Pirates Saga, with Zou and the following arc into a different one, especially, if Luffy splits from the crew at the end, like it's indicating. (Shadoguardian (talk) 08:51, February 16, 2016 (UTC))

We may very well have to, but let's wait for now and see how things play out. Maybe his crew will go with him. You never know. 09:31, February 16, 2016 (UTC)

I feel we should make Punk Hazard and Dressrosa the "Joker Saga" or "Donquixote Saga" or something like that. Sure, there are many elements that have strong connections to future arcs, but Doflamingo is what nicely ties both of them, and Zou truly feels like a beginning of a new chapter involiving the fight with yonko. 89.68.209.194 12:39, March 28, 2016 (UTC)hippo

New Saga "Vs. Yonko" announced on Shonen Jump
This: http://orojackson.com/attachments/vsfouremperors-jpg.12152/

The "Vs. Yonko" Saga begins with Chapter 821, literally in the middle of the Zou Arc.

Good Luck figuring this mess out.

P.S.: I think making Punk Hazard-Dressrosa as a Donquixote Saga is absolutely necessary at this point.

83.63.155.253 13:33, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and some translations quote this as a "New Arc" and not a new Saga.

Yep. Good luck.

83.63.155.253 13:37, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't say arc/saga anywhere on that page (I have the big version). And you need to look at context - the next issue is out on 4/4/2016, so the theme is '4', which is just being represented by the big four enemies Luffy is facing in the future.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be the saga name eventually, just wait for a proper source/story development. 107.6.117.181 13:55, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

You're right, I can't find the Kanji for Arc/Saga on the page. Do you have a translation of what's on it anywhere?

83.63.155.253 14:16, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Yep, pretty much confirmed that it was all a hoax/mistranslation from animenewsnetwork. The page simply hypes up the upcoming Yonko fights and unrelated One Piece announcements.

Guess the curse of mangapanda never dies

83.63.155.253 14:34, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Actually (it's me/107.6.117.181 again), seems like it was referring to this page:

https://imgur.com/c7jK9XX

which actually does say VS Yonko Arc/Saga (VS四皇編) on the right side. 167.160.116.58 14:40, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Wait, so is an actual VS yonko saga coming up????

Is this genuinely a new saga?

83.63.155.253 15:04, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not the name of the current saga? The most recent saga names aren't actually accurate, right? (Shadoguardian (talk) 15:50, March 28, 2016 (UTC))

The column says "They finally clash! This is the start of the "VS. Yonkou Saga"!! Don't miss out the curtain's rise of a new legend!!"

"start" means that it's the new one

However we need to keep in mind:

1. This is an announcement by Shonen Jump, not Oda. They've done stuff like "Luffy Vs. Doflamingo. The final fight ensues!" several times

2. Their sagas is not the same as our sagas. Saga could simple be used loosely and mean "the upcoming events in the story". There is no confirmation that this follows the so-called "Pirate Alliance Saga"

83.63.155.253 16:03, March 28, 2016 (UTC)

Guys, guys. Just because an official source has given us a title doesn't mean we need to freak out. I think you should probably read my crash course on arcs and sagas to put things into perspective. I wrote it a month ago, but it's never been more relevant. 04:22, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

Just ignore it unless Oda himself uses the title. SeaTerror (talk) 07:04, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

Waiting's fine but don't delude yourself; Oda has nothing to do with any of the arc/saga titles. Shueisha/editor is the usual practice. VS Yonko Saga should be the first choice for everything Zou onwards unless something better comes along, rather than another shitty title created by a random user who's definitely not Oda. 104.238.32.67 08:35, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

Well it appears to be a saga name and not an arc. Still lets wait and see before we change 'Pirate Alliance Saga' to 'VS. Four Emperors Saga'. And if its that serious a poll might be created (not by me fyi). Dragonquiz (talk) 12:24, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

I agree to wait and see how the story turns out especially since it appears right now the Zou Arc is almost over due to the fact the group is preparing to leave Zou right now even if it still might take more than one week. At least keeping that page for the Vs. Yonko saga from being created right now is the best solution until more proof is confirmed (ex. new chapters leaning towards it, or unless if a retraction article is presented confirming it is a hoax). -Adv193 (talk) 13:39, March 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * On another note I would recommend putting the Story Arcs page under protection to avoid any unnecessary edit conflicts until this mess is sorted out. -Adv193 (talk) 13:45, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

Same for me, the "sagas" as we know them are completely different from Oda's "sagas". Really, in the end a saga is simply a unit of measure used by the fans to archive the story.

I personally think that the "VS. Yonko Saga" is simply something made up by a Shonen Jump editor. Basically it would mean something like "Soon our heroes will fight the Yonko in a saga of adventures!", with "saga" being simply a way to refer to the upcoming installments of One Piece.

I say to ignore this for now, however I would still insist on closing the "Pirate Alliance Saga" (and renaming it "Donquixote Saga" or something like that) and starting a new Saga on Zou. Zou has taken a massive turn of different events and it doesn't even look like Kaido's up next.

Oh, and like it's been said, both Saga and Arc share the same kanji (編), so it could be any of the two.

83.50.158.254 14:24, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

None of those should ever be taken serious anyway. They also called Thriller Bark arc and Fishman Island arc sagas which is ridiculous. SeaTerror (talk) 19:53, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

Thriller Bark and Fishman Island are both considered sagas by a) this wiki, b) Oda, c) Shueisha, and d) Toei. I can't actually find a source anywhere that include them as smaller arcs. I think that's just a you thing, ST. 21:08, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

The wiki voted on it and only because Shueisha did it. Oda never did that. SeaTerror (talk) 23:17, March 29, 2016 (UTC)

This talk isn't about those two sagas. Back on track, if the info is indeed reliable, I would support making the page for the Vs. Yonko Saga (not arc). Better we get a name from Shueisha than make one up ourselves. The Zou Arc can be in both sagas if necessary, should it start specifically at 821. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 02:26, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

We don't use official titles for any other arc or saga, unless by coincidence. The community has voted to always use island location for arcs, and the sagas that we see fit. For those of you who weren't interested in reading my link earlier, here's a tl/dr. This wiki has never used Oda or Shueisha's official titles for arcs and sagas. In fact, we don't even seperate the arcs at the same chapters. Just because "Vs. Yonko Saga" came from an official source does not mean it automatically has more merit. The only reason we should use it is if we think it fits best, which is usually decided by popular usage. 03:03, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

Forum:Saga_Official_Names You were saying? SeaTerror (talk) 03:18, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

OK, but then why do FI and PA have conjectural-name templates slapped on them? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:19, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

ST, you just linked to a situation where the One Piece Green Databook stated that Thriller Bark was a saga that includes Sabaody Archipeligo, and Impel Down is also it's own saga, but the community voted against using that system. So, yeah. We've always prefered our own system to an official source's. 04:15, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

The names Thriller Bark Saga and Fishman Island Saga came from Shueisha which we voted to use. That's the point. We don't use our own titles. SeaTerror (talk) 08:56, March 30, 2016 (UTC)

With the information we've received in 821, it seems that the Zou Arc and this Saga as a whole are coming to an end, but it's probably better to wait a couple of chapters before deciding. Hawkinz340 (talk) 12:26, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I've asked JOP to confirm the accuracy of the information. Assuming it is though, we should create a new page for the Vs. Yonko Saga starting from either Ch. 821 or Ch. 822. Zou Arc seems finished so I doubt we'll have to worry about it being split into two sagas. As decided in the Saga Official Names forum, we follow the Shuiesha/official site naming when it comes to sagas, and both the magazine and Oda himself seem to be making a big deal about the new saga anyway (as seen on the magazine cover). 17:15, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

They've dropped the VS on the Shonen jump cover, it's just Yonko-hen now. You should still backdate it to the beginning of the Zou Arc - it's not unusual for a saga's name or basis for that name to be disclosed further into it (e.g. AFAIK East Blue was named during Baratie), and this arc has been about preparing for the confrontations with the Yonko, the basis for challenging them (Sanji, Wano occupation, Road Poneglyphs) and dealing with a Yonko commander, like how Whiskey Peak was preparation for Alabasta and so on. 104.238.32.36 19:30, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, this saga hasn't had much to do with Punk Hazard/Dressrosa, rather focusing on Kaido and Big Mom, the samurai etc. Hawkinz340 (talk) 20:32, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

If they're saying the saga begins now, Zou Arc won't be part of it. 21:00, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

It's accurate. It's either VS Yonko or Yonko. Both are used. 21:45, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

We shouldn't create anything unless Oda himself uses it. SeaTerror (talk) 23:46, March 31, 2016 (UTC)

When have we used saga names from Oda? Aren't these his saga names?
 * Episode 1 - 冒険の夜明け - The Dawn of Adventure - 1-95
 * Episode 2 - 偉大なる航路「グランド・ライン」への挑戦 - The Challenges of the Grand Line - 96 - 216
 * Episode 3 - 天空の黄金卿 - The Golden Lord of Heaven [Heavenly Sky] - 217 - 318
 * Episode 4 - 麦わらの一味対世界政府 - The Straw Hat Crew vs. The World Government - 319 - 441
 * Episode 5 - ゴースト島「アイランド」の冒険 - The Adventure on Ghost Island - 442 - 513
 * Episode 6 - 進入！　大監獄！！ - Break In! The Great Prison!!　- 514 - 549
 * Episode 7 - 史上最大の決戦 - The Great Decisive Battle [The War on the Summit/ The Paramount War] - 550 - 597

Shueisha is better than nothing. Once the Zou Arc ends would be the best time to begin this saga. 00:27, April 1, 2016 (UTC)

Those came from a databook so there's no evidence those are Oda's either. Shueisha isn't better than nothing because we have mistakes like Thriller Bark being called it's own saga. SeaTerror (talk) 00:31, April 1, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, we know what ST thinks. He has presented his case about 10 times with nothing new to say. And at risk of becoming a broken record, I'm just going to throw my side in one more time until this conversation goes somewhere. I don't think it matters if it came from Oda or Shueisha or Toei or Luffy's own mouth. Our only concern should be what works best for our purposes. And maybe that is Yonko Saga. But maybe Luffy's going to be fighting Yonko for the next 400 chapters across 17 islands, in which case "Kaidou Saga" and "Big Mom Saga" would probably be more oppropriate.

Now can we either get some new voices in this discussion, or just move to a decision? 01:20, April 2, 2016 (UTC)

I'd say wait to see what kind of journey the Straw Hats undergo for each Yonko before you decide to give them a saga. For example, if Luffy's just gonna go to Whole Cake Island and fight Big Mom there, then you could just name that the Whole Cake Island Arc and call it a day; however, if he's gonna go to Whole Cake Island, save Sanji, fight his dad, then fight Big Mom somewhere, that'd be the Big Mom Saga, or something to that effect. Does that make sense?--Xilinoc (talk) 18:25, April 2, 2016 (UTC)

We can divide it later based on the arcs, but I think "Yonko Saga" does work best for purposes for now. If you're concerned about the length then that should be all the more reason to create a new saga, since the (conjectural) Pirate Alliance Saga is already the longest of them all by a mile. Again, they're making a big deal about this shift in focus. 19:29, April 2, 2016 (UTC)

That all makes sense. I'm fining with using "Yonko Saga" for now, and for the record, I'd happily rename "Pirate Alliance Saga" to "Dressrosa Saga". 18:15, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

It depends on the length. If it gets too long then we'd have to rename it. Most likely what will happen is there will be both a Big Mom Saga and a Kaidou Saga alone. Maybe even more depending on how it goes. SeaTerror (talk) 19:03, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

Sagas should be changed when the focus changes, not when it gets too long. The Dressrosa Arc was longer than many sagas! We should still keep Pirate Alliance saga as the name for this once because basically the crux of all three arcs contained are the formation and expansion of a pirate alliance.

Zou will probably end next chapter so after that we can make the Yonko saga page. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:53, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

I like the name "Pirate Alliance Saga" for the Punk Hazard Arc and Dressrosa Arc, since it's all about the alliance between Law and Luffy, and then at the end of the Dressrosa arc, Luffy's new supporters. Though I'm fine with renaming the saga to Dressrosa Saga, or Donquixote Doflamingo Saga, or whatever, since ultimately, it focus on Doflamingo's tyrannic rule over Dressrosa and the end of his rule. Honestly, I don't care if we rename this saga or not.

And I'm confused as for why is Zou Arc considered to be part of the Pirate Alliance Saga. I'd stick it in the "Yonko Saga", since Doflamingo is done, done, absolutely done for (can you tell how much I hated that everlasting fight?), and Zou Arc is the setting up arc for the Yonko Saga. Let's see, the kidnapping of Sanji, Luffy deciding to go to Big Mom's tea party and getting Sanji back, the whole thing with the Wano Kingdom and Kaido, blah blah blah. Seriously, with all of the upcoming events with two separate Yonko, how do you guys think that Zou Arc is still part of the Pirate Alliance Saga? Sticking it in the Pirate Alliance saga is just wrong to me, the conclusion for the saga, to me, was the defeat of Doflamingo and the kingdom celebrating the end of his rule. There's nothing in the Zou Arc to bring back Doflamingo. So IMO Zou Arc should be part of the "Yonko Saga".

Also, if it wasn't already obvious enough, I'm all for the name "Yonko Saga" lol. 23:52, April 3, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's suggesting keeping Zou in the Pirate Alliance Saga. Kaido said "Zou will probably end and we can make the Yonko Saga page after that", but I'm pretty sure he means once the Yonko Saga is longer than a single arc. As in Zou + whatever.

So we're all pretty okay with Yonko Saga? 00:25, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

That's not what I meant - Zou Arc should be in PA for two reasons. Official reason is that Shueisha announced the Yonko Saga to begin around 821, so after the Zou Arc. Second reason is that this arc was about forming the "Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai" alliance, so it would make sense to include Zou in the PA saga. Also since the past three arcs have been about preparing to confront the Yonko and the Yonko Saga is about confronting them, simple as that. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:31, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

If we keep the name Pirate Alliaince Saga then Zou should be a part of it because it expands the alliance in the fight against the Yonko's but if we rename it the Dressrosa or Doflamingo saga then Zou would be the start of the 'Yonko Saga'. However I agree with Kaido ASL Pirates 03:16, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Zou Arc is part of the Pirate Alliance Saga for the simple fact that more alliances were made. SeaTerror (talk) 04:28, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Everything from Impel Down onward has involved alliances between pirates, and in case it wasn't obvious it's going to continue that way until the end of the manga. The main purpose of the grand fleet is for the final war. Calling it 'Pirate Alliance Saga' at any point is just as vague as 'New World Saga' would be. 107.6.117.178 09:16, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly. Unless we get official confirmation from Oda that no more alliances will be made after the ninja-mink one we can't say that Zou is part of the Pirate Alliance Saga because of it's alliances. Besides, as we already said "Pirate Alliance Saga" was chosen on this very page, the main focus of the last saga wasn't really the alliance, it was more Doflamingo's story. The alliance in Punk Hazard was just the first in a long list of alliances for the Straw Hats until the end of the series.

83.50.159.56 10:12, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Zou should be in the Pirate Alliance saga. Oh, have I ever mentioned how much I don't like the name "Pirate Alliance Saga"? Can we just name it the Dressrosa Saga or something? It'd be consistent with the Alabasta Saga. 12:56, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

"Pirate Alliance Saga" WAS decided on this page. Over three years ago. During Punk Hazard. Suggested by Galaxy. Sooo... I see no reason we can't change to a more approriate name. I agree with anon that alliances started in Impel Down and will continue on forever. It's more specifically about Doflamingo, Dressrosa, and SMILE. 19:38, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Since we apparently already has a name for the upcoming saga, the "Yonko Saga", do we have any source with a possible official name for the Pirate Alliance/Dressrosa Saga? I find it a bit odd that we have the "Yonko Saga", with nothing about Punk Hazard/Dressrosa. 20:07, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for jumping in late, but here's my 2 cents: First off, I doubt the accuracy of a SJ cover as a source for an "official name". It's just a tagline to get people to pick up the issue, not a source of reliable OP trivia, like a databook/SBS.

Also, I don't see a reason to divide PH/Dressrosa and Zou/future arcs into two Sagas. As far as I can tell, we're still dealing with the same overarching plot in both. Caesar, Doffy, and Jack all represent stepping stones to Kaido. 20:08, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

I can understand JSD's point, I think all of us had thought that Dressrosa was just going to be a stepping stone toward Kaido's defeat, but it turned out to be a 100 chapter mammoth of focusing on Doflamingo and the complex situation in Dressrosa, which PH (sort of) served as an introduction for. Apart from maybe the East Blue Saga, all of the previous sagas have centered on one major villain. I think it would be wrong to include Zou in the Pirate Alliance Saga because of the obvious shift in focus from Doflamingo and his spiel to Jack, who is the direct underling of Kaido and not just a freelancer/broker who happened to be working with him.

I'm all for changing the name to Dressrosa Saga or something along the lines of that and removing Zou. I also think that the plot won't be as structured as it's been up till now, perhaps clashes with Big Mom, Kaido, Weevil, and who knows who else will be intertwined to create some sort of Mega - saga that will be pretty hard to define by the crriteria all previous sagas have been defined. Hawkinz340 (talk) 07:51, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

We already have the appropriate name since the entire saga is about pirate alliances. SeaTerror (talk) 09:08, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

Oh sure. And the entire Water Seven Saga is about the World Government. World Government Saga? 22:47, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

I forgot about that mistake. That should be called the CP9 Saga. SeaTerror (talk) 00:43, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

You could make the arguament that PH and Dressrosa were actually about Kaido though, with Ceaser being a stepping stone to Doffy and Doffy being a stepping stone towards Kaido. So while the pirate alliances obviously play a major role taking down Kaido is the actual point of the two arcs. ASL Pirates 07:19, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

So, since the Zou arc is over (or assumed to be), the Alliance has split into 4 teams and the reverie is (finally) coming, should we end the current saga and continue with the "VS Yonko" pending what the next chapter has in store? Dragonquiz (talk) 11:50, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Hawkinz, Zou has very little bearing with Dressrosa/Punk Hazard. Zou actually serves as a stepping stone towards the following arcs (Whole Cake + Wano): the straw hats all meet (except Sanji) and decide to split up in four teams, to later all reunite on Wano, motivation is given to go after Big Mom and Kaido, several events start unfolding in the world...

And if we have called other sagas "Baroque Works Saga" and "CP9 Saga" this should be the "Donquixote Saga"

81.39.36.172 16:34, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

PH and Dressrosa were definitely not about Kaido. That whole thing was pushed off to the sidelines while the story focused on Doflamingo and Law. There's always overarching plots, but remember to look at the main focus. Or else one could claim that everything since FI has been about Big Mom. The Yonko have received some build-up, but now the new Saga will finally bring them to the spotlight, as highlighted by the Jump Cover drawn by Oda himself. 17:42, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly. Main focus of PH-Dressrosa was taking down Doflamingo. Main focus of Zou + Whole Cake + Wano is to take down Big Mom and Kaido, the Zou Arc sets up the following fights agains the two Yonko in the series. Luffy declaring war on Big Mom was simply a way to foreshadow Luffy's eventual fight against her.

88.9.138.236 10:53, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I'm convinced. The Zou arc should be in the Yonko Saga. For the rest, I agree with Kage. This entire part of the story should be split into Doffy and whatever comes next. 12:12, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, count me on for Yonko Saga from Zou onward. 16:22, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Wait a minute, PH and Dressrosa are connected to Kaido, they are allies of him (Doffy and Caesar are his collaborates). Is there any official saying "Pirate Alliance Saga"? No. Is there any official saying "Yonko Saga"? Yes. Canon vs. Fanon. That should be self-explanatory. 16:32, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

There's an official source that says 'Sky Island Saga', another official source that says 'The Golden Lord of Heaven Saga', one that says 'Skypeia Saga', one that says 'Sky Island Part 1; Skypeia' and 'Part 2; Golden Bell'. And they all disagree about exactly which chapter it starts and ends on.

Our purpose is to most accurately and clearly present information on One Piece. And sometimes that involves using popular termonology over misleading sources. Shonen Jump said 'VS Yonko Saga' for one reason; to sell more copies of One Piece. That's why they said "it's starting this chapter!". They wanted people to buy that chapter, even though it seems like an awkward place to split the arcs. They aren't making an encyclopedia. They don't care what they call it unless it's going to get you excited. And that complicates our job.

PH and Dressrosa are connected to Kaido, but they seem to tell a larger story on their lonesome. Chances are, the story is going to continue to bleed arcs until the end of the series. That makes things messy. I think our best course of action is to rename Pirate Alliance Saga and moved Zou to the Yonko Saga. 16:54, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

They always make more fancy names to sell more copies, but to not use official names is our folly. As you say, "most accurately and clearly present information", so we must use any official sources, even from money-minded companies. Therefore, if we can avoid it, we should avoid making up names (i.e. these). 16:59, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

I mean, the Baroque Saga included Drum Island, which stands as a separate project from Baroque Works and Alabasta. PH and Dressrosa are like that, side project from Kaido, in between the time Luffy and Law made the agreement of joining forces on PH, and Zou Arc where their alliance is official. Besides, it's bad enough that Fishman Island Saga is still conjectural. 17:02, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Zou Arc shouldn't be in the Yonko saga for the simple reason that the saga was named at the very end of the arc.

Also, Zou fits perfectly as a "Pirate Alliance" arc because the Heart and Straw Hat alliance united in full, and the real climax of this arc was when the alliance expanded to include the Mink Tribe and the fight against Kaido became set. Basically, the crux of PH, Dressrosa, and Zou have been the formation of alliances: PH was the Straw Hat-Heart, Dressrosa was the Grand Fleet, and Zou was the Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai. And there is a tonal shift between the two sagas, as PA was about preparing for the Yonko and setting up the conflict, while the Yonko saga is about direct conflict with the Yonko. Zou was all about preparation, so it being in PA would make more sense. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:34, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly what Kaido said. There was a pirate alliance of some kind formed in each of the arcs. SeaTerror (talk) 18:40, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

At this point I feel like we've all made pretty convincing arguments. We've heard from a lot of people and I think we should start figuring out how we're going to decide this. We've got 3 issues at hand. 1. Do we seperate Pirate Alliance Saga from Yonko Saga? 2. Does Zou belong to the former or the latter? 3. The fuck do we call these officially? And in my opinion, they need to be decided in that order to be completely unbiased. 20:10, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

"Pirate Alliance Saga" is a purely conjectural name. The title may suggest that the last Saga's main focus was the alliance, however the name was decided here. The alliance in Punk Hazard was just the stepping stone for all the alliances that will follow and it's almost a given at this point that the Ninja-Mink Alliance will not be the last one. There's still so many characters that may come into play, like Marco, Jozu, Vista, Bonney, Urouge, revolutionaries and any allies that might pop out of nowhere. Unless we get full confirmation from Oda that the Ninja-Mink alliance IS the definitive final alliance and that the last saga's main focus was indeed the alliance we can't say that Zou's alliance has any bearing on the last Saga. Doflamingo was at the forefront of the whole Saga at all times (Caesar was in some way a partner but also a straight-up subordinate of Doffy, Doflamingo's Jack you might say) while Kaido was more like "that guy that will eventually be fought in the future". We also have the big part of the alliance, the Straw Hat Grand Fleet, which as far as we know won't have ANY involvement in the Big Mom and Kaido Arcs, let alone Zou.

My case is that Zou was used as the prologue to the upcoming Big Mom and Kaido Arcs:

· A reason is given to go after Big Mom (Sanji + Poneglyph) and Kaido (Oden + Poneglyph)

· The protagonists already defeat part of Kaido's crew (Jack's squad), the first one of more to come

· Many characters who will play important parts in the following Big Mom/Kaido arcs are introduced (Pedro (and probably Carrot too), Nekomamushi and Inuarashi, Momonosuke as the descendant of the Kozuki Clan, all the Minks)

· The main teams for each Arc (Team Rescue Sanji/Team Wano) are chosen and depart for their respective locations

'''Plus Dressrosa had one hell of a Saga ending, it followed many of the typical One Piece saga ending tropes. We got:'''

· Massive and epic fight against Doflamingo and his executives, including the introduction of a whole new Gear

· Big changes throughout the world after Doflamingo's defeat

· Big new character/event reveals

· New Bounties

· The formation of the Straw Hat Grand Fleet

The only piece of proof for the other case that we have is that the VS. Yonko title was introduced at a very wierd time, but as we've established, it was nothing more than a simple promo, just a way to get people hyped and to buy the upcoming chapters. I mean, have you seen the internet's reaction to it? A lot of people are super hyped by the title "Vs. Yonko" alone. Here are some messages taken from the first page from a forum where they simply announced "The name of the new Saga is VS. Yonko":

"That sounds epic! Can't wait! HYPEEE" "i am very excited!" "Damn, Damn !!! What an epic arc name for the best arc in One Piece History !! Can't stop my excitement! Giggling like a girl now" "The hype level for this arc is damn high." "Ohhhh man Hypeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" "HYPE!" " Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man Oh man HYPEEE" "My heart! Oh my! Oh my!"

"So excited for this arc ! Things are finally getting serious... Epic fights, epic characters ! Sad moments, awesome moments, Straw hats pushed to their limits. Kaido, Big Mom, Black Beard, Shanks..! The 7 Fleets, the Mink, the Samurai !!

We're probably heading to the most intense arc ever."

I think you can clearly see that the effect that title was trying to pull off did indeed work.

81.33.215.131 16:13, April 10, 2016 (UTC)


 * Out of curiosity, do you know what a pleonasm is? And yes, this is a debate about fan names vs official names. We've got over that. Please contribute to the debate instead of ranting.


 * 16:59, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Well considering that Oda had a huge narrative at the end of the Dressrossa arc about the pirate alliance then clearly the entire saga was about pirate alliances. So yes Zou is still included in that. SeaTerror (talk) 18:52, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I really don't see how Dressrosa can be the end of a saga when it had huge hanging plotlines at the end like what happened to the Curly Hats and the samurai's continued mission to reunite, which are all answered in Zou. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:56, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

The alliance continues to grow even in Zou. Therefore, Punk Hazard up to Zou should be considered the Pirate Alliance Saga. Anyways, are we ever going to poll? Roranoa Drake II (talk) 19:06, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Well considering that Oda had a huge narrative at the end of the Dressrossa arc about the pirate alliance," there were a lot of narratives at the end of Dressrosa. The two most prominent ones were A) the narrative about the status of Dressrosa as a recovering country, and B) Doflamingo's speech about the major players in the world competing for the throne of the New World. The entire saga was about a lot of things, but the only thing that had any sort of conclusion was Dressrosa. So it should be the Dressrosa Saga.

I really don't see how Dressrosa can be the end of a saga when it had huge hanging plotlines at the end," You should rewatch the Post-Enies Lobby Arc and see how much was left open at the end. Or the end of the pre-timeskip, where everything was left wide open. It's just Oda's style to end his biggest chapters with more questions. 21:49, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

Zou is an even worst closure for the Saga. We still have Sanji's wedding, the situation back at Wano, the Revolutionaries Vs. Blackbeard, destruction of Baltigo, Marco's situation, Momonosuke and Zunisha and the Reverie among others in the air. While the end of the Dressrosa Arc left few threads open, the Zou arc might have closed a couple, but it opened a hundred more.

83.50.156.29 13:30, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

With the Zou Arc over now'd be a good time to make the Yonko Saga page, I think we have a consensus for that. We might need to poll where Zou goes though. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:42, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

A saga needs a climax and resolution. Dressrosa and the fight with Doflamingo is a perfect one. Zou CANNOT end a saga when it essentialy opens many more plots than it closes and doesn't feel like climax AT ALL. It doesn't make sense. It's like storytelling 101. PH and Dressrosa may have a lot of set up to future arcs, but they stand on their own, they have their own conflict that is tied to Law and Doflamingo. If we're going to make Zou a part of pirate alliance saga, we might as well not make another one, because Luffy will be getting more and more allies as the times go by. It's not a theme of the saga, it's one of the main themes of the whole manga. Not to mention the Pirate Alliance refers to the alliance between Luffy and Law that was finalized and set in stone in Dressrosa arc.

PH + DR should be called a Donquixote Saga because everything that happens in it is relates to Doflamingo's family. CC, Law's plan and agenda, the kids, Vergo, Rikus, Fujitora and so on. "But some of the plots are related to yonko and upcoming arcs like factory and yada yada". Yes they are, and Ace's search for BB was pivotal to the WB saga too, yet Alabasta is not considered to be part of it.

A saga should be defined by the main plot it encompasses, and the main plot of PH and DR was to defeat Doflamingo. Don't forget that Law's plan WASN'T aimed at Kaido. It did play its role when it comes to yonko saga, but the main reason for the destruction of SAD and SMILE factories was to screw over Doflamingo, not to weaken Kaido.

So as I said, if we consider that PH and DR had an impact on Kaido's saga, then we might as well say that Alabasta had an impact on WB saga, and Enies Lobby had an impact on The Final War Saga, and little garden had impact on Elbaf Saga and so on. Main plot, main motifs and main themes should define a saga, not the set up and smaller things happening around. No matter how many of those small things there is. 89.68.209.194 14:00, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

"You should rewatch the Post-Enies Lobby Arc and see how much was left open at the end." Also stop adding so much unnecessary coding. SeaTerror (talk) 17:43, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

What coding? It's plain text with paragraphs separated by hitting enter for better clarity. I think you've mistook me for some guy above my first message.

Post-Enies Lobby arc is the equivalent of last 10 or so chapters of Dressrosa. It's a closure arc that was needed because it was impossible make all the clousre happen at Enies Lobby. Zou is not a closure arc; it's a new island, with new characters, new plotlines and new conflicts. Actually, Zou has close to no connection to Dressrosa and Punk Hazard, aside from Kinemon and Momo, but we had Robin during Skypia and no one was saying that makes it a part of CP9 saga.

Moreover, what was exactly left open or new in P-EL arc? It was a resolution of new ship plotline, luffy vs usopp plotline, aokiji/robin plotline, franky joining plotline and the bountied which are basically the cheery at the top of most of the sagas. Then we got only a little bit of info about New World, Shanks vs WB and Ace vs BB which are the usual world building/set up stuff. P-EL closed much more stuff than it left opened, unlike Zou that, as I've mentioned has close to no connection to previous two arcs. 89.68.209.194 19:22, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Pirate_Alliance_Saga?diff=1337599&oldid=1337289 That was you. Big reveals happened let left many unresolved questions that still exist. SeaTerror (talk) 21:00, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

Let me explain why I compared it to Enies Lobby:

The Water Seven Saga definitely had closure. The plotlines that had opened up on Water Seven continued onto the train and then Enies Lobby. There was then a definite resolution and they came back to Water Seven for a cool-down/wrap-up arc. Of course, it still left some loose threads. It even opened up some brand new ones. This was just to lead into the next part of the story. The Saga clearly ended there.

Now we have what's currently known as the Pirate Alliance Saga. It had definite closure with the defeat of Doflamingo and the liberation of Dressrosa. There was a clear resolution. The had their cool-down and wrap-up within the last 10 chapters or so, Sabo flashback and Rebecca's plotline. But it still didn't end every darn plotline. There's still a Yonkou and a pirate alliance. But the point is that the Saga had a climax and a resolution. It ended on Dressrosa.

So my point was that Pirate Alliance should be seperated from Zou because of their roles in the story. Zou is the beginning of a new chapter. Punk Hazard through Dressrosa was it's own, isolated story. 21:51, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

Your comparison failed then since Zou was clearly the end of the saga if you're comparing both Post Enies Lobby and Zou arc. SeaTerror (talk) 22:15, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry then for "the coding", I have no idea how everything works here. I just wanted to make paragraphs so it's easier to read... Anyway, the above comparison did not fail at all. It's you who keep dismissing every argument we make even though you have none of your own. I have already explained how significant the difference between Zou and Post-Enies Lobby arc is and why Zou CANNOT be a saga-ending arc.

Also, "Pirate Allinace Saga" name needs to go if we're doing the split, because this pirate alliance will last for the rest of the manga, so it's kinda inaccurate to name a saga like that unless it covers every New World arc up to the very end.