Talk:Seven Warlords of the Sea

Former Shichibukai Histories
I say we should keep the members post history in with the rest. Since they were Shichibukai doesn't mean they should be ignored completely. This page should cover the grounds of all characters. Genocyber (talk) 23:36, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

If they're not Shichibukai anymore, they shouldn't be covered. This page is about Shichibukai, not regular pirates. 23:43, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Crocodile's actions during Marineford and Impel Down are mentioned here for some reason. I suggest somebody fix it. 00:37, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Since Jinbe didn't actually resign until they got to Marineford, technically he's still a Warlord during the time in Impel Down, so I think it's safe to mention that Crocodile happened to be there at those parts, as long as we keep him in the "former Warlord" thing. Plus, most of Crocodile's actions in Marineford were against other Warlords. But the parts that only concerns him, like when he tried getting Whitebeard, should be out. I'mma do it. 00:46, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Just fixed it, but some parts had to stay in because they actually involved a Warlord in one way or another. Like Crocodile's quarrel with Jozu, Doflamingo stepped in. Jinbe had the most excluded, ironically. 00:56, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Tabs?
Given this article's length, I think it might be prudent to section it off into tabs, at the very least for the history portion. Sectioning off the history alone would shorten the article by at least two thirds and make it much more presentable, in my opinion. For that matter, I think tabbing some of the longer character pages might also be a good idea. Memnarc (talk) 09:47, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Bump., 15:00, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

What would the tab divisions be? I pretty much support the idea, as long as there aren't too many tabs, and they are logically organized. 15:11, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

History would get its own tab. Leave the introduction on the main page, and the overview.

Merchandise and trivia can stay on the same page. Not sure how to divide the rest. 21:34, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the history section should get its own tab. MasterDeva (talk) 21:51, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

We shouid make three tabs.The main article will have information about the members and general information about the group, the other tab wiill have the history and the third tab will have all the additional information (Merch., trivia, concept art, etc). 21:56, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

The third tab is not needed. There is not enough content to warrant a separate tab for the things you listed. MasterDeva (talk) 22:31, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Two Tabs then. WU out -  08:33, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and do it then. 10:47, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Gallery?
I thought about adding a gallery of the members as children. Would you people be ok with that? Genocyber (talk) 21:27, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

It's already in the Trivia, so it's not needed. 21:31, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well, we could swap it out for them. The one of Law there in the trivia could be added too. Genocyber (talk) 21:39, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

The one there is one collective image, and is better then having a whole galley. 21:51, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Crocodile Image
Discuss it here. 10:58, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

this isn't Crocodile. No reason to use such an undetailed image on the page. 10:59, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention, both images are completely useless for the page. It should show him attacking that Puppu guy. 11:04, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Law and Teach
I know they're not canon, but there have been merchandise that depicts Teach as a hippo and Law as a tiger to fit in with the other seven who have animal themes. I think it would be safe to put them in the chart as long as there was a note or something saying they only appeared that way in the merchandise. 13:47, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I can't believe this is coming from you of all people :P. About Law, we could let it slide, since tiger fits his name too (tora means tiger). But I have a huge objection for Teach. Oda has already chosen the hippo theme for Wapol and I don't think he would allow a second character with the same animal theme. At least there has been no such case as of yet .(looks like I was talking crap)

Law and Fujitora both have a tiger theme. The only difference is one of them is purple. 16:05, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Blueno and "Green Bull" Admiral shares the same animal theme too. Personally, I'm finding merchandises to be nothing more than "fanmade" items. They are not related to what Oda thinks and he also seems to have quitted the idea of animal-themed Shichibukai. He just created the first 7 Shichibukai with these themes and now he is moving forward without caring about it anymore. It is plain fanfiction to try reviving this old idea and we, as wikia, should avoid that kind of references. It is more confusing than helping in my opinion. K the AWC (talk) 16:46, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

It would be really easy to avoid confusion. All we have to do is put a reference with a disclaimer. It's worth pointing out. Law was a tiger figurine long before "Tora-guy". I'm not saying Teach going to have a hippo theme in the manga, I'm just saying there's a valid reason to add them. 17:47, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Leave it in the trivia. No need to put it in the canon section. 18:48, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with Galaxy. 20:13, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I already took the liberty of doing so, but what if we still mention the animal themes in the same section, but under the chart so it's not seen as canon? I don't think we treat the animal themes as canon, anyways.

ALSO, as an addition, we list the animal themes again for ALL the members in the trivia section? That way at least it's all still together. 22:12, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this should be a trivia info, there is no reason to keep the animal themes in member's profiles. As Nada said, even if some themes are obvious they still don't deserve canon treatment. K the AWC (talk) 02:06, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

So, are you suggesting we remove completely the "animal theme" section from the template, and move that part of info to the trivia section? Because if you are, I totally agree.

There's really no need to go that far. I actually agree more with Galaxy that Law and Teach's animals could and should go in trivia, which it has. There's no need to modify a whole chart because of two things that aren't even there. I think we can wrap this up here. 15:15, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

TRIVIA: About Multiple Members Only
There was a problem a few years ago with the trivia section being too long. I suggested in a previous section that we should keep the trivia to ones about more than 1 member & trivia about a specific member goes on said member's page. Although One-Winged Hawk was the only to respond to and follow my suggestion, others seems to agree since no one undid the edit. But right now SeaTerror is against it, so can I get other people's opinion on it?
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 02:30, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. 02:35, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I agree in general, but in this case about Ace, if the trivia is reworded like " The only known pirate who has turned down the Shichibukai status offer is Portgas D Ace" then it fits perfectly on this article, because it concerns the status itself not the individual.

I can go with Vaz's idea: the trivia is acceptable if the subject is the status/organization rather than the individual.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 04:00, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Works for me. 04:50, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'm down for it too. The trivia would only really be seen in the Warlord page or his own page, and if we live it out of the former, it feels missing to whoever doesn't read the latter. If it's acceptable by regarding the organization itself, that's fine. The way Hime rewrote it is good. 07:45, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Tentative Shichibukai Trafalgar Law
Trafalgar Law is a tentative Shichibukai according to the translations of Chapter 746.

We all know that Admiral Issho "revoked" his title in Chapter 713. However, later chapters have indicated that Trafalgar Law is still a Shichibukai. Not a full Shichibukai, but a tentative/provisionary one. Here is the evidence I would like to bring up:

1. 16 chapters after Chapter 713, we find out that Chapter 729 is called Shichibukai Doflamingo Vs. Shichibukai Law.

2. In the very next chapter, Chapter 730, Donquixote Doflamingo speaks to the crowd that gathered around the commotion and refers to Law as a Shichibukai.

3. In Chapter 746, we are presented with new evidence. According to several translations, Law is said to be a tentative/provisional Shichibukai. This indicates that it has not been confirmed by the World Government that he has lost the title.

4. Chapter 713 is the chapter in which Fujitora "revokes" Law's title as Shichibukai. Chapter 713 is in Volume 72. In the very next volume, Volume 73, in the short bio section at the beginning of the volume (where it lists all the major characters), Trafalgar Law is still listed as a Shichibukai. In Volume 74, Law is once again listed as a Shichibukai in the short bio section.

There are also some points to consider:

1. In relation to point 1 from above, Chapter 629's title is called The Former Shichibukai Who Stands in the Way. This indicates that Oda has stated "Former Shichibukai" in the past, but oddly enough it is not mentioned in Chapter 729's title.

2. In Chapter 513, Shichibukai Bartholomew Kuma stated that the Shichibukai are not obligated to cooperate with the Marines unless under the direct order of the World Government. In Chapter 211, then-Master Chief Petty Officer Tashigi claims that Crocodile's rights, not title (though the translation could be shoddy), as a Shichibukai is stripped by the powers granted to her by the World Government. All we know is that Issho was ordered by Fleet Admiral Sakazuki to assess the situation, not by the World Government.

3. We have only seen confirmations of a revocation of a Shichibukai's title in meetings. In Chapter 234, Liffitte tells the Marines and Shichibukai that have gathered in a meeting that he has heard about Crocodile losing his title. In Chapter 594,in a meeting about the aftereffects of the war, the Gorosei confirms that there are three vacant seats that need to be filled (Jinbe's, Marshall D. Teach's, and Gekko Moriah's).

Trafalgar Law is not a former Shichibukai. He is a Shichibukai whose status is in limbo. He has a provisionary/tentative status, not a revoked status. - Racht  01:37, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

The Gorosei haven't yet revoked his status, since Fujitora hasn't informed them, neither Sakazuki. However it's a detail. --Meganoide (talk) 14:31, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Right, but I'm saying that Law should not be listed as a former Shichibukai. Racht 23:02, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

An Admiral revoked his status. He is no longer a Shichibukai. What part of this isn't clear?

23:55, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Because of the reasons I said above. His status was "revoked" by Fujitora in a chapter before Law is referred to as a Shichibukai in a title chapter and in the text within the chapters. Racht 23:59, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's insubstantial evidence at best. One character, who is well known for mocking and for being Law's superior, and a chapter title, does not change the concrete fact that Issho revoked his status.

00:08, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

What does being Law's superior have to do with this? Also if the Shichibukai have no obligations to obey the Marines unless under the direct orders of the World Government itself, as the Marines page states and as Kuma had stated in the manga, then why should we take Issho's word as concrete fact? Only the World Government has that kind of authority to take away the title. There has not been any newspaper stories of Law losing his title, as the story hasn't progressed yet. Racht 00:26, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

. Mr. Whatever (talk) 05:41, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

There wasn't a story about Moriah losing his title either... And I don't recall Crocodile's dismissal making any papers either. Play it as it lies and keep it as rescinded. 05:48, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 713 is the chapter in which Fujitora "revokes" Law's title as Shichibukai. Chapter 713 is in Volume 72. In Volume 73, in the short bio section at the beginning of the volume (where it lists all the major characters), Trafalgar Law is still listed as a Shichibukai. The link that Mr. Whatever provides is the proof for my statement. Racht  06:16, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I would like to also point out, DancePowderer, that while Moriah's title was not discussed in a story, it was confirmed when the Gorosei are in a meeting discussing the aftereffects of the war in CHapter 594 (three positions need to be filled). That is when it became official. Racht 06:20, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I should point out that Oda doesn't always write the little character summaries at the beginning of the bios, so something from the actual story would be better. 06:37, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

He already did. Chapter 746, which says "tentative" clear as day in this image. The meaning of the word is far more straightforward than what Fujitora said (which would be consistent with knocking him down from a full Shichibukai to a provisional one). The chapter title and volume introductions are just icing on the cake. 06:47, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Zodiaque's hit the nail on the head. Racht 17:25, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if this can be discussed further. Law's still considered a Shichibukai according to the manga. Racht 04:40, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

The evidence is clear. Just go ahead and change the pages. Mr. Whatever (talk) 01:59, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

[ Klobis agrees], so it's 4 against 2. Quit reverting it. 00:57, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Zodiaque. Anyone who is against, please read the first post again as it has been updated. The facts are right there. I don't know why this is STILL an issue. Racht 01:37, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Volume 74 lists Law as a Shichibukai. Racht 04:24, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

True enough, it still says "Ouka Shichibukai". In no place do I see "Moto" (Former). 23:55, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

3D2Y
As before his 3 month ban, SeaTerror continues to undo my edits accusing me of being a troll. This time I'm removing a sentence derived from the special episode "3D2Y". In that special is hinted that the shichibukai organization has been created less than 30 years ago. The hint is that World doesn't know about who them are.

The problem is: World did the same before his imprisonement with the Cipher Pols. So you're gonna tell me that the Cipherl Pols didn't exist 30 years ago?? Simply absurd. World is a person that doesn't care about the other people, who they are and what they do, until they cross his path. That is also underlined by the fact that he destroyed whoever crossed his path and by the fact that Byojack actually works as the brain of the pair. So the trivia about the shichibukai is totally false.

In addiction to this, SeaTerror is still a pain in the ass for the users of this wiki. To avoid misunderstandings: I mean that he makes the other users' work much harder. Meganoide (talk) 19:14, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

Welp that's Seaterror. I think we should leave it until Oda confirms it. Joekido (talk) 20:45, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

We should keep that speculation? PS that's SeaTerror is a way to say "he can do whatever he wants". But he can't. He must learn to stop himself, otherwise some admin should stop him. --Meganoide (talk) 23:53, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

It's not speculation. We know that pirates and Marines banded together 30 years ago to fight World. Someone even said that he was the reason the Shichibukai were created to stop world. You can put 2 and 2 together yourself without having the whole thing spelled out for you. 07:29, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I would remove it only because it is non-canon but it still fits with trivia guidelines so it's still valid. SeaTerror (talk) 22:51, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Royal Shichibukai
Why are we using a shortened name as the title? The real name of the group is "Royal Shichibukai", so that's what the page should be called. Obviously we can still refer to them as Shichibukai in the contents, but there's honestly no problem with having the full title as as the name of the article. 13:18, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, but instead of "royal" we should use "Oka", the Japanese term. It would be absurd to use a name which is half English and half Japanese. Meganoide (talk) 15:46, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Forgot to comment on this one before. I wanted to open a section about this before but never got around to this. But what Meganoide said. It has to be full Japanese. SeaTerror (talk) 16:52, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Well, we use "Shichibukai" in Japanese because of the difficulty in getting a decent translation to English. If "Oka" translates smoothly to "Royal" I don't see why we shouldn't use "Royal". 17:02, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Because we don't use half translations. Gomu Gomu no Mi, not Gomu Gomu Fruit. SeaTerror (talk) 17:03, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with JSD. "Royal Shichibukai" is better. 17:06, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Then I say Shichibukai only if you're going to push for terrible half translations. SeaTerror (talk) 17:11, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't want a half translation, so I'm going with "Oka Shichibukai". 00:18, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

We already use plenty of half translations in island names, but whatever. Let's just keep it as "Shichibukai" then. 21:32, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

No we don't. Islands all use the original name. SeaTerror (talk) 01:25, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

We could transform it into "Royal Seven Warlords of the Sea" or "Oka Shichibukai", depending on how the "Celestial Dragon" issue goes. 05:54, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Different situations. SeaTerror (talk) 18:08, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, does anyone care strongly about this? At this point, I'm just for leaving the page the way it is right now. If nobody posts saying they care in a few days, we'll close this discussion. 16:58, November 24, 2014 (UTC)