Talk:Seven Warlords of the Sea

Former Shichibukai Histories
I say we should keep the members post history in with the rest. Since they were Shichibukai doesn't mean they should be ignored completely. This page should cover the grounds of all characters. Genocyber (talk) 23:36, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

If they're not Shichibukai anymore, they shouldn't be covered. This page is about Shichibukai, not regular pirates. 23:43, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Crocodile's actions during Marineford and Impel Down are mentioned here for some reason. I suggest somebody fix it. 00:37, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Since Jinbe didn't actually resign until they got to Marineford, technically he's still a Warlord during the time in Impel Down, so I think it's safe to mention that Crocodile happened to be there at those parts, as long as we keep him in the "former Warlord" thing. Plus, most of Crocodile's actions in Marineford were against other Warlords. But the parts that only concerns him, like when he tried getting Whitebeard, should be out. I'mma do it. 00:46, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Just fixed it, but some parts had to stay in because they actually involved a Warlord in one way or another. Like Crocodile's quarrel with Jozu, Doflamingo stepped in. Jinbe had the most excluded, ironically. 00:56, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Tabs?
Given this article's length, I think it might be prudent to section it off into tabs, at the very least for the history portion. Sectioning off the history alone would shorten the article by at least two thirds and make it much more presentable, in my opinion. For that matter, I think tabbing some of the longer character pages might also be a good idea. Memnarc (talk) 09:47, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Bump., 15:00, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

What would the tab divisions be? I pretty much support the idea, as long as there aren't too many tabs, and they are logically organized. 15:11, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

History would get its own tab. Leave the introduction on the main page, and the overview.

Merchandise and trivia can stay on the same page. Not sure how to divide the rest. 21:34, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the history section should get its own tab. MasterDeva (talk) 21:51, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

We shouid make three tabs.The main article will have information about the members and general information about the group, the other tab wiill have the history and the third tab will have all the additional information (Merch., trivia, concept art, etc). 21:56, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

The third tab is not needed. There is not enough content to warrant a separate tab for the things you listed. MasterDeva (talk) 22:31, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Two Tabs then. WU out -  08:33, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and do it then. 10:47, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Gallery?
I thought about adding a gallery of the members as children. Would you people be ok with that? Genocyber (talk) 21:27, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

It's already in the Trivia, so it's not needed. 21:31, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well, we could swap it out for them. The one of Law there in the trivia could be added too. Genocyber (talk) 21:39, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

The one there is one collective image, and is better then having a whole galley. 21:51, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Crocodile Image
Discuss it here. 10:58, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

this isn't Crocodile. No reason to use such an undetailed image on the page. 10:59, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention, both images are completely useless for the page. It should show him attacking that Puppu guy. 11:04, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Law and Teach
I know they're not canon, but there have been merchandise that depicts Teach as a hippo and Law as a tiger to fit in with the other seven who have animal themes. I think it would be safe to put them in the chart as long as there was a note or something saying they only appeared that way in the merchandise. 13:47, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I can't believe this is coming from you of all people :P. About Law, we could let it slide, since tiger fits his name too (tora means tiger). But I have a huge objection for Teach. Oda has already chosen the hippo theme for Wapol and I don't think he would allow a second character with the same animal theme. At least there has been no such case as of yet .(looks like I was talking crap)

Law and Fujitora both have a tiger theme. The only difference is one of them is purple. 16:05, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Blueno and "Green Bull" Admiral shares the same animal theme too. Personally, I'm finding merchandises to be nothing more than "fanmade" items. They are not related to what Oda thinks and he also seems to have quitted the idea of animal-themed Shichibukai. He just created the first 7 Shichibukai with these themes and now he is moving forward without caring about it anymore. It is plain fanfiction to try reviving this old idea and we, as wikia, should avoid that kind of references. It is more confusing than helping in my opinion. K the AWC (talk) 16:46, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

It would be really easy to avoid confusion. All we have to do is put a reference with a disclaimer. It's worth pointing out. Law was a tiger figurine long before "Tora-guy". I'm not saying Teach going to have a hippo theme in the manga, I'm just saying there's a valid reason to add them. 17:47, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Leave it in the trivia. No need to put it in the canon section. 18:48, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with Galaxy. 20:13, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I already took the liberty of doing so, but what if we still mention the animal themes in the same section, but under the chart so it's not seen as canon? I don't think we treat the animal themes as canon, anyways.

ALSO, as an addition, we list the animal themes again for ALL the members in the trivia section? That way at least it's all still together. 22:12, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this should be a trivia info, there is no reason to keep the animal themes in member's profiles. As Nada said, even if some themes are obvious they still don't deserve canon treatment. K the AWC (talk) 02:06, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

So, are you suggesting we remove completely the "animal theme" section from the template, and move that part of info to the trivia section? Because if you are, I totally agree.

There's really no need to go that far. I actually agree more with Galaxy that Law and Teach's animals could and should go in trivia, which it has. There's no need to modify a whole chart because of two things that aren't even there. I think we can wrap this up here. 15:15, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

TRIVIA: About Multiple Members Only
There was a problem a few years ago with the trivia section being too long. I suggested in a previous section that we should keep the trivia to ones about more than 1 member & trivia about a specific member goes on said member's page. Although One-Winged Hawk was the only to respond to and follow my suggestion, others seems to agree since no one undid the edit. But right now SeaTerror is against it, so can I get other people's opinion on it?
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 02:30, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. 02:35, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I agree in general, but in this case about Ace, if the trivia is reworded like " The only known pirate who has turned down the Shichibukai status offer is Portgas D Ace" then it fits perfectly on this article, because it concerns the status itself not the individual.

I can go with Vaz's idea: the trivia is acceptable if the subject is the status/organization rather than the individual.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 04:00, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Works for me. 04:50, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I'm down for it too. The trivia would only really be seen in the Warlord page or his own page, and if we live it out of the former, it feels missing to whoever doesn't read the latter. If it's acceptable by regarding the organization itself, that's fine. The way Hime rewrote it is good. 07:45, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Tentative Shichibukai Trafalgar Law
Trafalgar Law is a tentative Shichibukai according to the translations of Chapter 746.

We all know that Admiral Issho "revoked" his title in Chapter 713. However, later chapters have indicated that Trafalgar Law is still a Shichibukai. Not a full Shichibukai, but a tentative/provisionary one. Here is the evidence I would like to bring up:

1. 16 chapters after Chapter 713, we find out that Chapter 729 is called Shichibukai Doflamingo Vs. Shichibukai Law.

2. In the very next chapter, Chapter 730, Donquixote Doflamingo speaks to the crowd that gathered around the commotion and refers to Law as a Shichibukai.

3. In Chapter 746, we are presented with new evidence. According to several translations, Law is said to be a tentative/provisional Shichibukai. This indicates that it has not been confirmed by the World Government that he has lost the title.

4. Chapter 713 is the chapter in which Fujitora "revokes" Law's title as Shichibukai. Chapter 713 is in Volume 72. In the very next volume, Volume 73, in the short bio section at the beginning of the volume (where it lists all the major characters), Trafalgar Law is still listed as a Shichibukai. In Volume 74, Law is once again listed as a Shichibukai in the short bio section.

There are also some points to consider:

1. In relation to point 1 from above, Chapter 629's title is called The Former Shichibukai Who Stands in the Way. This indicates that Oda has stated "Former Shichibukai" in the past, but oddly enough it is not mentioned in Chapter 729's title.

2. In Chapter 513, Shichibukai Bartholomew Kuma stated that the Shichibukai are not obligated to cooperate with the Marines unless under the direct order of the World Government. In Chapter 211, then-Master Chief Petty Officer Tashigi claims that Crocodile's rights, not title (though the translation could be shoddy), as a Shichibukai is stripped by the powers granted to her by the World Government. All we know is that Issho was ordered by Fleet Admiral Sakazuki to assess the situation, not by the World Government.

3. We have only seen confirmations of a revocation of a Shichibukai's title in meetings. In Chapter 234, Liffitte tells the Marines and Shichibukai that have gathered in a meeting that he has heard about Crocodile losing his title. In Chapter 594,in a meeting about the aftereffects of the war, the Gorosei confirms that there are three vacant seats that need to be filled (Jinbe's, Marshall D. Teach's, and Gekko Moriah's).

Trafalgar Law is not a former Shichibukai. He is a Shichibukai whose status is in limbo. He has a provisionary/tentative status, not a revoked status. - Racht  01:37, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

The Gorosei haven't yet revoked his status, since Fujitora hasn't informed them, neither Sakazuki. However it's a detail. --Meganoide (talk) 14:31, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Right, but I'm saying that Law should not be listed as a former Shichibukai. Racht 23:02, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

An Admiral revoked his status. He is no longer a Shichibukai. What part of this isn't clear?

23:55, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Because of the reasons I said above. His status was "revoked" by Fujitora in a chapter before Law is referred to as a Shichibukai in a title chapter and in the text within the chapters. Racht 23:59, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

That's insubstantial evidence at best. One character, who is well known for mocking and for being Law's superior, and a chapter title, does not change the concrete fact that Issho revoked his status.

00:08, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

What does being Law's superior have to do with this? Also if the Shichibukai have no obligations to obey the Marines unless under the direct orders of the World Government itself, as the Marines page states and as Kuma had stated in the manga, then why should we take Issho's word as concrete fact? Only the World Government has that kind of authority to take away the title. There has not been any newspaper stories of Law losing his title, as the story hasn't progressed yet. Racht 00:26, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

. Mr. Whatever (talk) 05:41, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

There wasn't a story about Moriah losing his title either... And I don't recall Crocodile's dismissal making any papers either. Play it as it lies and keep it as rescinded. 05:48, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 713 is the chapter in which Fujitora "revokes" Law's title as Shichibukai. Chapter 713 is in Volume 72. In Volume 73, in the short bio section at the beginning of the volume (where it lists all the major characters), Trafalgar Law is still listed as a Shichibukai. The link that Mr. Whatever provides is the proof for my statement. Racht  06:16, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I would like to also point out, DancePowderer, that while Moriah's title was not discussed in a story, it was confirmed when the Gorosei are in a meeting discussing the aftereffects of the war in CHapter 594 (three positions need to be filled). That is when it became official. Racht 06:20, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I should point out that Oda doesn't always write the little character summaries at the beginning of the bios, so something from the actual story would be better. 06:37, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

He already did. Chapter 746, which says "tentative" clear as day in this image. The meaning of the word is far more straightforward than what Fujitora said (which would be consistent with knocking him down from a full Shichibukai to a provisional one). The chapter title and volume introductions are just icing on the cake. 06:47, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

Zodiaque's hit the nail on the head. Racht 17:25, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if this can be discussed further. Law's still considered a Shichibukai according to the manga. Racht 04:40, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

The evidence is clear. Just go ahead and change the pages. Mr. Whatever (talk) 01:59, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

[ Klobis agrees], so it's 4 against 2. Quit reverting it. 00:57, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Zodiaque. Anyone who is against, please read the first post again as it has been updated. The facts are right there. I don't know why this is STILL an issue. Racht 01:37, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Volume 74 lists Law as a Shichibukai. Racht 04:24, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

True enough, it still says "Ouka Shichibukai". In no place do I see "Moto" (Former). 23:55, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

3D2Y
As before his 3 month ban, SeaTerror continues to undo my edits accusing me of being a troll. This time I'm removing a sentence derived from the special episode "3D2Y". In that special is hinted that the shichibukai organization has been created less than 30 years ago. The hint is that World doesn't know about who them are.

The problem is: World did the same before his imprisonement with the Cipher Pols. So you're gonna tell me that the Cipherl Pols didn't exist 30 years ago?? Simply absurd. World is a person that doesn't care about the other people, who they are and what they do, until they cross his path. That is also underlined by the fact that he destroyed whoever crossed his path and by the fact that Byojack actually works as the brain of the pair. So the trivia about the shichibukai is totally false.

In addiction to this, SeaTerror is still a pain in the ass for the users of this wiki. To avoid misunderstandings: I mean that he makes the other users' work much harder. Meganoide (talk) 19:14, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

Welp that's Seaterror. I think we should leave it until Oda confirms it. Joekido (talk) 20:45, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

We should keep that speculation? PS that's SeaTerror is a way to say "he can do whatever he wants". But he can't. He must learn to stop himself, otherwise some admin should stop him. --Meganoide (talk) 23:53, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

It's not speculation. We know that pirates and Marines banded together 30 years ago to fight World. Someone even said that he was the reason the Shichibukai were created to stop world. You can put 2 and 2 together yourself without having the whole thing spelled out for you. 07:29, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I would remove it only because it is non-canon but it still fits with trivia guidelines so it's still valid. SeaTerror (talk) 22:51, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Royal Shichibukai
Why are we using a shortened name as the title? The real name of the group is "Royal Shichibukai", so that's what the page should be called. Obviously we can still refer to them as Shichibukai in the contents, but there's honestly no problem with having the full title as as the name of the article. 13:18, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, but instead of "royal" we should use "Oka", the Japanese term. It would be absurd to use a name which is half English and half Japanese. Meganoide (talk) 15:46, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

Forgot to comment on this one before. I wanted to open a section about this before but never got around to this. But what Meganoide said. It has to be full Japanese. SeaTerror (talk) 16:52, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Well, we use "Shichibukai" in Japanese because of the difficulty in getting a decent translation to English. If "Oka" translates smoothly to "Royal" I don't see why we shouldn't use "Royal". 17:02, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Because we don't use half translations. Gomu Gomu no Mi, not Gomu Gomu Fruit. SeaTerror (talk) 17:03, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with JSD. "Royal Shichibukai" is better. 17:06, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Then I say Shichibukai only if you're going to push for terrible half translations. SeaTerror (talk) 17:11, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't want a half translation, so I'm going with "Oka Shichibukai". 00:18, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

We already use plenty of half translations in island names, but whatever. Let's just keep it as "Shichibukai" then. 21:32, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

No we don't. Islands all use the original name. SeaTerror (talk) 01:25, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

We could transform it into "Royal Seven Warlords of the Sea" or "Oka Shichibukai", depending on how the "Celestial Dragon" issue goes. 05:54, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Different situations. SeaTerror (talk) 18:08, November 21, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, does anyone care strongly about this? At this point, I'm just for leaving the page the way it is right now. If nobody posts saying they care in a few days, we'll close this discussion. 16:58, November 24, 2014 (UTC
 * Nobody cares, we're done. 19:12, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Plunder to the Gov.
"They are only allowed to attack other pirates and must also compensate the Government with a tenth of their plunder though this regulation is not usually followed at the very least."

Where was it stated specially that the Shichibuki had to give tenth of their plunder to the Government? I read that part with Yosaku explaining this to Luffy and Zoro in the manga, and watched the scenes in English and Japanese in the anime, but never once did it state the specific amount of their plunder they were supposed to give to the Government as part of their duties. Was it stated in a databook or something?--137.30.93.133 15:07, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

If I remember correctly (and I may be wrong), it was stated in the VIZ version of the chapter Yosaku explained about the Shichibukai. 17:03, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

I don't remember that. Viz was probably wrong. SeaTerror (talk) 18:26, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

I looked into Batoto's translation and it just said "a portion", and did not specify how much exactly. I've left a confirm template on the section on the article for now, but we do need to see if anyone can find a source for the exact amount, otherwise we should remove that part of it. 19:43, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

It's literally "some percents" (何割), if it's a tenth it should be written as 1割. http://imgur.com/2aJiMJC Mocha21 (talk) 07:30, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, so there's no proof it's a tenth, I've changed the wording to "a portion". 18:55, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

Trivia Wars
So there's been a big edit war here. We need to just talk this out before we edit the page.

I am of the mindset that anything included here is valid. The only question in my mind is if it all qualifies as trivia. Since everything to me is valid, I think we should move anything that is deemed not "trivia worthy" to another section of the article.

Thoughts? 17:19, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

I think we should move the SBS stuff to the appearance, as Kage did in his edit, since they aren't really trivia, just appearances of the Shichibukai of their kid selves and genderbent selves.


 * "While Yosaku was accurate in describing their immense powers and alliance with the World Government, the shadowy figures he imagined bore no resemblance to the actual members aside from Mihawk."

I do not think that that trivia of Yosaku is that important because the first part of the trivia is obvious and pretty much useless, while the second part, Oda likely did not plan ahead for the Shichibukai's appearance, or they were just draft appearances. I don't think it's ever meant to be accurate, especially when you consider that Yosaku quite likely have no idea what they look like, other than Mihawk, and these figures are probably just figments of his imagination.

However, I'm comfortable with keeping the trivia for Ace. IMO, not that good, but whatever, it seems okay enough to leave it up on the article.
 * "The status of Shichibukai was offered to Portgas D. Ace, but was he refused the offer. This is the only known time an invitation into the organization has been rejected."

So yeah, that's pretty much it. 21:42, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

The gallery is fine but not having the trivia to go with Yosaku's image doesn't really make it a good image since the whole point of uploading it was for that trivia piece. If we're also getting rid of the SBS trivia on that section then just make a new page called Misc like we do for the Straw Hats and put everything there. SeaTerror (talk) 22:24, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

Then we'll remove Yosaku's image from the gallery. And how much SBS trivia we have to make an entire new page? Seems like there's only a few, so I don't think it needs a new page. 22:27, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Jade. --&#34;The good mean well. We just don&#39;t always end up doing well.&#34; ~ Isaac (talk) 01:14, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Well, the Yosaku info one does have its connections to the article itself, so why not keep it? But comparing the figures to Mihawk is rather presumptuous, maybe rid that. 02:49, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Since it was the first image of the Shichibukai shown, it's worth keeping, surely.

21:15, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Nothing about Ace or the SBS trivia? 22:59, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind the SBS trivia (like the genderbender and children) to be moved under a new heading, but it should at least include from what SBS volume it came from. Like the original trivia moved underneath it the images or something. As for the Yosaku trivia, it should stay. What he said was helpful in figuring out more about the Shichibukai, and his vision of them is important as well. As Nova mentioned, it was the first image of them shown. It's kinda like Kanjuro's appearances that Oda kept changing. Ace's should stay too. Having all of these trivias won't hurt the page. 02:06, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, we can list which SBS the genderbent and children images showed up in easily enough.

Ace's trivia can stay if the majority is for it. 02:20, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I think the Yosaku thing works better as trivia. While the image really belongs in the appearance section, the image is nothing without the text about Yoskau, and the text doesn't belong in the appearance section, imo.

The Ace one is totally legit, I don't see any reason to move or remove it.

As far as the SBS based ones, why not just leave them all there? 03:49, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Obviously, SBS all stay there. As for the Yosaku one, we could give a text box sentence saying "Yosaku explaining the fearsomeness of the Shichibukai to Luffy and Sanji." or something, if it goes in the appearance section or whatnot. 04:34, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Because the trivia is the reason the image exists. SeaTerror (talk) 05:39, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'm confused, Yata, JSD, do you mean the SBS trivia should remain as trivia or be moved to the gallery? 00:47, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

I meant leave them in the trivia section. 02:25, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, keep the SBS trivia in the trivia section. 02:55, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. The SBS trivia is literally just describing the images. Just look at what the SBS trivia says:
 * "In the SBS of volume 63 Oda drew all the known Shichibukai at the time (including former members) as children. Trafalgar D. Water Law was not a Shichibukai then, but he was shown as a child when Oda drew the Eleven Supernovas (which Law is also a member of) as children in the next SBS and when his past was revealed. Buggy is the only Shichibukai to have yet be shown younger than adolescent."


 * "In the volume 76 SBS, Oda drew the original seven known Shichibukai and Blackbeard as their opposite gender. Law was already drawn as a female in the volume 72 SBS along with the Eleven Supernovas. Buggy is the only Shichibukai to have yet be drawn as his opposite gender."

The images should be placed in a gallery, with captions, like Kage did in his edit, and the SBS trivia removed, as it provides nothing valuable. 03:26, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Well, appearance sections don't really belong on Organization pages though. Not according to our layout, anyways. And that makes sense, because a large group with changing members can't really have an "appearance" anyways. 16:52, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

The trivia, in this case, is that Buggy isn't included. That's the interesting fact. So this should be moved to Buggy's trivia, right? "Buggy is the only Shichibukai not to be drawn as a child or as the opposite gender." 17:18, March 4, 2015 (UTC)