Talk:Charlotte Amande

Design trivia
So, after having my edit removed, I wanted to show my reasoning behind it and why I feel Amande's design is based on Hachishakusama

First, I'll explain what hachishakusama IS. Hachishakusama (Roughly translated as "Eight Feet Tall" is an urban legend similar in the vein of Slenderman that has been popular in Japan for almost a decade now. The monster was described as an eight foot tall woman, wearing a white dress and a wide brimmed white hat, all of which Amande has in common. She also generates a surprising amount of fanart.

http://anomalyinfo.com/sites/default/files/images/Hachishakusan.jpg

http://bcl.rpen.us/zerowiki/images/a/a6/Tall_Woman_concept.png



The urban legend has been fairly popular, even being included (though renamed) in the Fatal Frame games. Here's the shortest vid I could find that features her. (Language warning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKb8Yi9O4QI

So, Let's see... Impossibly tall and thin? Check. White dress? Check. Wide brimmed hat? Check, and exaggerated by Oda to fit his usual style. Demon moniker? Check.

Of course, Oda takes the character description and uses it to make his own unique and badass character, which is something I love about the series. However, I do think that the current entry is wrong. Plus, it just makes more sense for a Japanese artist to include a reference to a popular Japanese urban legend than a single obscure picture of Alice in Wonderland, especially when there's only one real similarity there.

BigBurkhart (talk) 23:13, April 7, 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree that the legend probably factors in to her design.--Sandwichman2449 (talk) 00:16, April 8, 2017 (UTC)

We've had more dubious trivia on this wiki, so this one seems okay to mention with me. Anyone else have any opinions? I can't really remember what rules we exactly had on these kinds of trivia though :S 17:51, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

The trivia can be reinstated if the editor makes their case and the community agrees - I also think this can stay too. (Dino was the one who removed this but I think ST was the one to tell him to) Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:27, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

I'm still not sold. To me, this just seems like a character from a horror story. Is it really an urban legend if the main source is a ficticious story someone wrote? Unlike other urban legends (Bigfoot, aliens, etc.), I get the sense that this is a very recent creation and probably is not that well known. It is possible that Amande has some inspiration from Eight Feet Tall, but it seems like something that would need SBS confirmation. 19:30, April 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually, it is has been featured in Fatal Frame, it is popular enough. Disregard my previous comment. 19:34, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Fine by me. We're kind of forcing the Alice theme here, when allusions to other works is fair game as well Godess of Time Dimaria (talk) 19:36, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Well, the urban legend has been around since 2008, and it's about as popular in Japan as Slenderman is in America. The two do have a lot in common, actually. BigBurkhart (talk) 21:00, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

I agree that we should get rid of the Alice comparison pic. However, at the same time and this will seem contradictory, I'm not quite sold on using Hachishakusama as the basis, given its rather recent origins. First, I'd like to point out that Amande's height and tall stature derived most notably from her neck, while Hachishakusama has a large figure in general or abnormally long legs. I realize that could be nit picky, but I felt I should point it out. Second, and most importantly, Oda hasn't used recent lore or video game designs like that in his work prior to this. Iconic fictional and real world figures yes, and even characters from old Japanese folklore, but never an urban legend this recent whose only solid mass media footing is a video game. I'm not saying he can't, I'm just observing patterns. So, while not condemning the use of Hachishakusama as a comparitive basis, I must first ask, is there any piece of similar folklore, Japanese or otherwise, that predates Hachishakusama, preferably by a significant amount? If we can't find one, then I can't fully support its use. Sorry for the long post, but I had to be thorough in my explanation. 06:38, April 10, 2017 (UTC)

How specific is the folklore that you're looking for? I mean, are we talking about something else that Amande could be based on, or just something that validates Hachishakusama? If you really want to get specific, Hachishakusama could qualify as an Onryo, or female ghosts that often seek revenge on the living or grow malicious after death, and I've seen a lot of accounts referring to her as a yokai. I know ghost stories about yokai vary wildly, with some being crazier than others, but this certainly falls within those lines.

As for asking if there is a different piece of folklore that better fits the design, isn't that kind of counterproductive for me, as someone who is trying to make a case about her possibly being an inspiration for the design? (Not sure if that's actually what you're asking.)

Also, 9 years is plenty of time for a urban legend to get around and take root, especially with the internet. I'm certainly not saying that everything about the character is derived from the ghost story, and in fact, the similarities end after the design (unless there's something in the future where Amande has a preference for attacking children). However, there's way too many similarities there for that to just be a coincidence. It's possible Oda heard the story, thought it was interesting, and sketched a character that he liked.

Lastly, after a little bit of looking, I found that in 2013, a television show called "Yamishibai: Japanese Ghost Stories" featured the story, as well, with some changes made.

BigBurkhart (talk) 03:50, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Forgive me, I wasn't trying to undermine anything you were saying. I was just taken aback by how contemporary the legend is, my mind did some subconscious associations that had nothing to do with it, and I arrived at my skeptical conclusion. Forget that happened. Anywho, while I feel like the onryo is the main inspiration, the hachishakusama shouldn't be overlooked. I think it would be best to use the onryo as a basis for her overall stature (long neck, demonic appearance), while using the hachishakusama mainly as the basis for her wardrobe (dress, big hat) and some specific parts of her physique (skin tone, slender build). 08:24, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Although I haven't found other instances of urban legends being used in the series, I still find it to be trivia worthy given its popularity and the similarities 22:37, May 1, 2017 (UTC)

Snakenecks have been foreshadowed since Sabaody and tall people are nothing new for One Piece. I don't think it's particularly trivia-worthy, unless Oda confirms it in an SBS or something. 11:39, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

If it was just the height or the neck, I wouldn't have mentioned anything. It's the whole motif. The hat, the height, the extremely pale skin, the demon moniker, and now that she's had a speaking line, (albeit brief) her voice, too. If she sounds like a male character when she has some more speaking parts, that only deepens the similarities. BigBurkhart (talk) 21:43, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

I think DP's interpretation makes the most sense. Also, Amande does have a reasonably deep voice for a woman (I referred to the latest episode where she has one line), but we would have to wait for more dialogue to draw a definite conclusion. I say stick to onryo and hachisukusama for the trivia. 22:37, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

We could ask Klobis what he thinks about this, since he's an actual Japanese person. 22:43, May 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Or you know what, just add it in. Not really that big of a deal. Keep it short though and mention onryo as the general inspiration. No long list going through every possible similarity. 22:58, May 2, 2017 (UTC)