Forum:Images Re-Categorizing

Hello. I recently been recategorizing some files that were double categorized (had a sub category and a parent category), and after User:Awaikage, and later User:Leviathan 89, took noticed, I started an even bigger re-categorizing. For example, the new image categories the Category:Haki Usage Images and sub-categories, and sub-categorizing Category:Databook and Special Volume Images.

Additionally, I wand to re-organize many images categories and I started with Category:Chapter Images. I wanted to make it easier to find images from chapter that have yet to be animated, so when the corresponding episode airs, it will all be in one place, something I've noticed when updating images from recent episodes, where I had to go to around page 60 of the Images page (the main uploading page, not multiple image pages), so I made Category:Chapter Images Yet to be Animated. However, after making those changes, I was suggested by Awikage that it should have been discussed beforehand in a Site Changes forum, so here we are.


 * 1) Before I continue the edits, does anyone object to those re-categorizing?
 * 2) If we were to continue, I planed on having other sub-categories that i guess now would be discussed by case afterwards. One of those for example, is a complimentary to the category I did that will gather all the chapter images that were decided to be better then their anime counterpart. The main goal is that a vague category like Chapter Images would be mostly, if not totally, sub-categorized.
 * Category:Episode Infobox Images is special episode titles, while the Category:Regular Episode Infobox Images are a sub-category and I think it should be the reverse.
 * 1) General files categories that are inherently both from the anime and the manga (Category:Portraits, Category:Devil Fruit Infobox Images...) should be either sub-categorized in both, or a new category for cross-media categories, otherwise, the Category:Episode Images and Chapter Images would be flooded.

I guess there will be more suggestions to categories, plus I have more ideas that, again, will be discussed individually. Thoughts, objections, and\or suggestions? Rhavkin (talk) 20:58, December 12, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
I can't really say my opinion on the matter because I didn't look into how images are currently organized, but once you decide what to do, if it's a simple matter of categorization I can help with my bot.

First of all, thanks for offering to help. If you want a comparecment, look at Category:Anime Images and its sub-categories. Category:Episode Special Images has over 300 files, and a minor sub-categorize by each special isn't hard to do, and it will make be easier to navigate. This apply to Category:Movie Images one movie sub-categories. The main issue is Category:Episode Images with over 5,000 images. Sub-categorize by episode is an option, and if the suggestion of cross media categories pass then the removal of portraits and infobox images would majorly decrease the number. Categories exist to help navigate the page (file pages in this case) and if someone for whatever reason would look for an image and its only category is "Episode Images" and alphabetical search in the category, that is far from convenient. Rhavkin (talk) 09:59, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

I may post a more extensive reply once I have time, but for now I'll just say this: You're right that a parent category is not needed if the page already has a subcategory of that parent category. (e.g. File:Crocodile_Portrait.png doesn't need the category Manga Images because Color Spread Images is subcategoized under that) But I think you've missed another important factor: Everything in a subcategory is supposed to also fall under the parent category. For example, your point about Portraits - Category:Portraits cannot be a subcategory of neither Episode Images nor Chapter Images because it contains both type of images. Similarly, you made Category:Character Manga Infobox Images a subcategory of Chapter Images AND Volume Images but that doesn't work because they exclude each other.

It's like making Category:Pirate Captains a subcategory of both Male Characters and Female Characters, then proceeding to remove those categories from all pirate captain character pages. Categorization doesn't work like that. 12:48, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, and that is way I brought up cross media categories. Either way, I still think there has to be a way to do it without flooding chapter images. Maybe do sub-categories inside Category:Character Manga Infobox Images of Chapter Infobox Images and Volumes Infobox Images (which are mostly volume cover images) and those sub categories can go into chapter images and volume cover images. Rhavkin (talk) 13:40, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

I don't really see any benefit in altering the chapter image category to distinguish between animated/not yet animated. The people who change pictures from manga to anime know which pictures need to be changed and in the end the category gets changed anyways, so not much if anything would go smoother with two different categories. In fact it'd be even more work since manga images that we don't change to anime would have to have their category changed as well. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:03, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

Chapter images that are changed to their anime counterparts already have their category changed from chapter images to episode images, so it will not add a category change, just different category to change from. And the fact that those people know what images to change doesn't mean that this category wouldn't be more comfortable.

As for your second point, and as I said above, I do plan on making a Chapter better then Anime Images category (name not final), and both categories are to prevent the chapter images from flooding and "not yet animated" and "better then the anime" are what the images from those groups have in common, so that how they should be categorized. Rhavkin (talk) 16:35, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Kaido and Kage. This makes no sense and will not benefit the wiki. The categories are fine as they are now. 20:20, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

It will add a category to change from, because you'd have to change the category of images that stay as chapter images. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Your propositions won't help narrow down categories in any way that's actually useful. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:30, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

Noland, how does easier navigation isn't wiki beneficial?

Kaido, it will replace chapter images. Let's use File:Jinbe Attacks Opera.png for example:
 * Before it, categories are Plot, Action, and Chapter Images. Now, in order to clear as much as possible the chapter image category, the new category replaced the chapter images category on that file. Three categories in total remain.
 * When the corresponding episode airs we would have change chapter images to episode images (considering it will be at an equal or better quality the the current image. hence the Manga>Anime Category... Still working on the name), now the new category would be replace. one category change in total remain (either episode images or M>A Images).

Also, I'm not suggesting to narrow dawn categories, on the contrary, I want to add more to make navigation easier. Rhavkin (talk) 20:51, December 13, 2017 (UTC)

But whose navigation will it aid? Who is assisted by the knowledge that it's from a chapter that hasn't been animated yet?

The category changes will still increase. Because you don't have to change the category if an image isn't changed to an episode image the way we do it now. But if it isn't under this new idea, we still have to go through all the images from that chapter and change the category. I just don't see the point. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:01, December 29, 2017 (UTC)

It will help in cases when an episode is released and instead of going to page 60 of the Images, and simply go to that category, which is also arranged by the chapter each image is from.

You're saying that the category change will be increased if the anime adaptation is worse, and for that reason I suggested the M>A category.

The general basis for categorizations is to make navigation easier for whoever needs it for whichever reason. Does gathering all the chapter images that would presumably be replaced in the future wouldn't make an easier navigation for those who replace them? Doesn't having all 360 images from chapters without further sub-categorizing make it harder? If you'll try to find an image, wouldn't it be easier to find it among 6 (average images from new chapters)? Rhavkin (talk) 18:16, December 29, 2017 (UTC)

No objections for well over a month, I think its time to move onto the Manga > Anime category.

Since it is costumed to replace the manga images with its adequate anime counterpart, I think that labeling those images who are not to be replace, just like the thinking behind the Category:Scanlation Images Allowed. Rhavkin (talk) 05:17, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

That's not how discussions work. Just because Kage, Noland, and I haven't responded to this in a while doesn't change the fact that you're outvoted 3-1 on this right now. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:23, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

Kaga was against the idea of putting the manga infobox category under both chapter and volume images, not the yet to be animated idea, and Noland agreed with you on the misconception that it will add another category swap, which I explained that it wouldn't, and you haven't commented on said explanation so I figured you understood it. According to my count its 1-Nobody else care\object. Rhavkin (talk) 05:33, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

So this is stuck until someone else will comment so I'll just put this on hold and go on the next topic. Rhavkin (talk) 04:38, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

I oppose the ideas of the "Chapter Images Yet to be Animated" etc. as well. 15:24, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

Can you please explain why so I wouldn't feel blown off? Rhavkin (talk) 18:15, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

Because it's a REALLY bad category. Not every scene has ever been animated and they aren't 100% exactly the same when they are. SeaTerror (talk) 23:56, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

What's bad about a category that helps find the chapter images that need to be updated when a corresponding episode is released? Right now, without this category, how can one find the images that should be change from CI to EI? It is by going to each pages with the images? going back 30 pages in the Images page? This category makes it easier to find those images, and it is organized by the chapter. It help find specific Images easily, so again: What's bad about it? Rhavkin (talk) 04:22, April 13, 2018 (UTC)

Multimedia
some images categories like Category:Portraits and Category:Infobox Images (excluding characters) do not differ between manga and anime. Instead of adding Category:Chapter Images or Category:Episode Images to each image, having those first categories in a non-distinctive category would be beneficial. Your thoughts? Rhavkin (talk) 04:38, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

That's just incomplete categorization. If it's a chapter image it should be categorized as such. 15:24, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

Is there a reason you're so adamant about keeping Category:Chapter Images as vague as possible? As I see it, the more subcategories (given there are enough files for a category of their own), the easier it is to navigate between the images, and isn't easy navigation the main point with categorizing? Why would every portrait file be both under "Portraits" and "Chapter\Episode\whatever Images" instead of "Portraits" be under "Multi Sources Images"? Rhavkin (talk) 18:13, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

I still think we don't need to change the categories. Portraits are still chapter or episode images, so they should be categorized as such. We don't have any "Multi-source Images" because an image can't be from both the manga and anime. If we update an image to be an episode image, we should remove the chapter image category, and vice versa if we decide that the chapter image looks better.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 22:51, April 12, 2018 (UTC)

The category wouldn't be on file pages, but as a head category in Category:Images by Source that would include categories that has images from both the manga and the anime.

And I think that CI and EI are broken because they are very general and vague, and it is hard to find specific images if it is flooded by portraits every other image. Right now, EI is 5,657 images, and CI is 997. Does anyone really think that someone can find a specific image out of those faster then if there was a subcategory? Rhavkin (talk) 04:22, April 13, 2018 (UTC)