File talk:Negikuma Maria Anime Infobox.png

Face Issue
Let's discuss this here. MasterDeva (talk) 07:07, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, while it is acceptable to have a lacking full-body shot in the infobox, and a detailed face picture in the gallery, I don't think that's the best option here. The original image is just way too LQ. The snowflakes are too big and they obscure her, and Luffy bowing in the front is another distraction. In the new version, we lose a it of her full-body shot, but we can still see most of her body. Her face, while not a shot of her normal expression, is still a shot of an expression that is fairly close to normal. Neither image is prefect, but to me the old one is just way too low quality to be an acceptable profile image. 17:13, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for answering with actual arguments JustSomeDude, I'll try to answer all the points you made. Well let's start with what would be preferable as an infobox image. According to our Image Guidelines, an image of a full body pose is preferable and the only exception to that is when no full image existed at all. Furthermore, the character's full body pose in the image must not distort the character's features regardless of quality.


 * I agree that the full-body image image taken from episode 80 isn't very good because her face isn't drawn very well but pay closer attention to the one captured from episode 81. Her face is better drawn and recognisable, plus Luffy's distraction is missing, and even though snowflakes are present nothing of significance is actually obstructed. We can actually see the whole body of Maria and the only thing that does stand out is Vivi's presence, however the image from the movie suffers from this too. What's left to discuss is the face issue which is really the problem. In the movie version Maria's face is drawn with eyes of uneven size and weird expression that gives the wrong impression of her. Something not present in the manga or anime tv series but found uniquely in the movie remake of the Drum Island Arc.


 * Actually an example of a similar problem and solution can be found for Edward Newgate's infobox image when Whitebeard's appearance was animated for the Marineford Arc. I solved the issue then by replacing the flawed version with a better drawn one and placing a full-body image in the appearance section for reference. That worked perfectly well then and it still works to this day. We could just as easily apply a similar solution to for Maria's infobox image, by placing the full-body shot in the infobox and having a detailed version of her face in the appearance section. MasterDeva (talk) 21:37, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the full body is an issue here, you can split the two version in two different files and add the first version in the appearance section, as long the full body is added on the page there shouldn't be any issue. Unfortunately, though the second one has an "higher quality", I believe is overall worse, since it was taken from the movie which has that horrible cartoon/3d like effect.


 * Yeah the main problem isn't the full-body issue but that "off" expression on Maria's face. I don't even know what words to use when describing it. We could still keep the image version if we added it in a gallery section but certainly not in the infobox. MasterDeva (talk) 22:42, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

The original image is LQ and therefore does not belong in the infobox. This is in the image guidelines for christs sake. 22:58, December 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually what's written in the guidelines is this, "The character's full body pose in the image must not distort the character's features regardless of quality." Let me give you an advice Galaxy9000. When you are talking about something be specific and don't rely solely on blanket terms like "LQ" to make an argument, otherwise we're not having a discussion anymore. MasterDeva (talk) 23:07, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

That's nice. Your full body image distorts the characters features pretty well. You cannot see her behind the snow, and it's blurry and very pixelated. This is not the type of image for the infobox. 23:08, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

As terrible as both images are, how about you guys just try finding a higher quality version of MasterDeva's, or a better shot of Galaxy's? Galaxy's would be better if not for the face-fault. That alone makes it an inferior image. You can find high quality versions of old episodes; even FUNimation's DVDs give it HD, and those aren't very difficult to get. Instead of going back-and-forth on two images, just find a new one or drop it. In the case of these two, though, I'm going with MasterDeva's. 23:23, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

To the Image.

There. Best image possible. Imageshack made it a bit pixely, but the image I have is clear. 23:34, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I put the image in a link so the talk page is eaiser to look at. Anyways, it's better than your previous one. But a high-quality version of MasterDeva's can compete. For now, I'm going with Galaxy's. 23:44, December 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * I can still see the same flaw with her face as I've described already above. The problem is not pixelation in this case but faulty drawing, which no amount of pixels can fix. I agree that the version from episode 80 isn't very good but the one from episode 81 is good enough to use. As for your claim regarding the snow, I find it false. Maria IS visible in both images and I can't seem to notice any pixelation but it is a little blurry and I can't do anything about that. If anyone has those two episodes in DVD quality feel free to upload them. Unfortunately I can't help with that. MasterDeva (talk) 23:59, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

The DVD quality is almost no different. The problem with the snow is it creates a "blur" effect that makes maria's face a blurry mess. This is just the best we're gonna be able to get (my version). 00:22, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

I must agree with MasterDeva, "high resolution" != "high quality" and whatever we said, the guidelines are always guidelines, not ironclad rules. There as much guidelines that you can appeal on for a version then the other. Let's speak frankly, the Drum remake movie was poorly drawn... or rather its style was so much different from Oda's or the canon anime. I got the impression of watching spongebob instead of One Piece, so if we talk about quality in my opinion the canon version is so much better, this is like fanart and that's a huge con for the second version. The snow is not a problem, we have images over-illuminated too, and the image is big enough for an infobox, not big enough to zoom in you won't see the differences if you don't.

I think the Episode 81 image looks the best out of all of them. The snow really isn't a problem, especially for her face. There's no snow even on her face, so I don't understand your argument there. As for saying it looks "derpy", your images looked more like a derpy face. This one I would describe as creepy with no eyelids. She is an overall creepy woman, but that's beside the point. I think Episode 81 seems best fit, as her face really isn't that obscured and it's decent enough quality. Drawing isn't bad, and she's in a well enough position. Anybody who wants to see her face for some reason can find it not far away in the article. So...Episode 81 is best, in my opinion. 00:34, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

If we need to bend the image guidelines a but here, why not use File:Negikuma_Maria_Face.png in the infobox, and then include both of the other versions in the gallery. The image of her face is the only one that is not distorted or featuring animation errors. I would be fine with those images in the gallery, but I don't think any of them make particularly good infobox pictures. 01:33, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think we are so desperate yet to go that far... MasterDeva (talk) 01:46, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

So, did we reach a conclusion? I think it's about time to remove the edit war tag and decide which image to use. MasterDeva (talk) 05:23, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

I think there are still objections with everything, but how about we have another image similar to JustSomeDude's seggestion? Could we have one that shows about half of her body, and have the full view and face in a gallery? No full view seems to be an acceptable infobox pic that everyone can agree on. 15:35, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * There are no other images available to add though. Everything uploaded already is all we can get from the anime and movies about Maria. My suggestion would be to use the full-body image from episode 81 as her infobox, while keeping the detail version of her face in the Appearance section, and crate a gallery to add the movie version. I think that's good enough to wrap things up. MasterDeva (talk) 19:06, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Bumping. Still think we should use the better movie 9 image. The episode image is just way too crappy. 02:19, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Bumping in light of Forum:Fullbody Infobox Images. Taking it into account, I think the movie 9 image is better. 13:53, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. The episode image has terrible detail. 03:26, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Face Issue, Part 2
I thought we discussed that. The movie image is more detailed, has better lighting and is way clearer than the episode image. On the other hand the episode image has awful detail, he face is just derp, the snow is on the way, she is not close to the camera and the lighting is awful. 15:58, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yep. Movie image is better in every category. 16:14, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

You reverted to the wrong version. We revert to the original version of the edit war, which is the movie image. 16:16, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The movie version is actually less detailed. The weird expression she has makes it even worse for an infobox image. If you look carefully at her mouth and eyes you'll notice this, especially the eyes. They were drawn uneven (the right one is smaller that the left one), giving her what you call a "derp" look. Since no actual conclusion was ever reached, I suggest we poll it. MasterDeva (talk) 16:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Wanna poll it, let's poll it. But until the poll is over, we must use the movie image since it's the original version of the edit war. 16:23, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The original version is the one currently in use. The edit war was caused by the movie version, not the other way around. MasterDeva (talk) 16:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah but the edit war stopped in December. 16:31, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

You mean the issue was forgotten around December. MasterDeva (talk) 16:32, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the edit war stopped on December, didn't it? 16:36, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

No consensus was reached, it just got on hold. If it was polled properly then we wouldn't have to do this now. MasterDeva (talk) 16:39, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oh I see you're still using those awful arguments, MasterDeva. SeaTerror (talk) 17:50, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The talk page was bumped, and so was the image, I don't see a problem with how it was changed the first time. But at the same time, the new poll is still ok.

And for the record, the rule in case of edit wars is to revert to the version involved in the edit war that was uploaded first. In this case, it's the anime version. 20:33, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

They're all anime versions. SeaTerror (talk) 20:57, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

The rule is that when there is an edit war, we revert to the original version of the edit war, not the first file uploaded. 11:57, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
''This poll is currently open .This poll will decide which image we will use to describe the scene. To vote you must have 300 edits and be a registered user here for three months. The poll opened on May 26 at 16:00 UTC and will close on May 31, at 16:00 UTC. The options are below. ''

Which image will we use?

The episode image
 * 1) MasterDeva (talk) 16:27, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:34, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:01, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:02, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 03:23, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:13, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:13, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

The movie image
 * 16:26, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 16:26, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 17:47, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 20:33, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 20:43, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:21, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 07:21, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:24, May 27, 2013 (UTC) (Close call here...)