Talk:Trafalgar D. Water Law

Dr. Law
Why does this page say that he is a doctor? The manga has never stated this and it is beyond me why someone constantly changes it every time I edit it out.

80.126.84.138 16:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)a concerned anon


 * No idea but his nickname is "Dark Doctor" so I guess thats where it comes from. One-Winged Hawk 18:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but doesn't this nickname come from the fact that he's pretty much cutting people up with his power? It's only a nickname, not his profession 80.126.84.138 00:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)a concerned anon


 * There is no stated evidence that Law got this nickname because of the way he cuts people up. It maybe a possibility but unless someone states it, it's more likely he is called that way because he is a doctor. In fact, the nickname itself suggests more of him being a doctor than being a slicer of body parts. If the reason he got the nickname was because for he slices body parts up, why call him a Dark Doctor or Surgeon of Death (based on which translation one uses), wouldn't it be more politically correct to call him Slicer, Battousai, or something related to body slicing? True surgery means to slice people up in a sense, but it conveys more to the medical sense than to random chopping up.


 * If this doesn't explain things enough, take this in mind. Doctors have intensive knowledge on how a human body works and is structured. They would know best the human anatomy. Wouldn't it thus help a guy who can split people apart if they knew such knowledge. Anyone bloke with a sword can hack away at people, but it takes a doctor to know which parts of the body would be weak enough to easily cut away and leave an opponent struggling in pain.Mugiwara Franky 04:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, I can go with that explanation. 80.126.84.138 07:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)a concerned anon


 * Still not convincing to me, though. Luffy was able to come up with Gear Second and Third on his own without having any kind of medical knowledge, so it's likely Law can figure that kind of thing out just through knowledge of his own Devil Fruit power. Also, his tendency to cut people up and reassemble them with his power is the only explanation for his nickname that can actually be proven so far; he has shown no signs of being a doctor thus far, so making claims that he is one here on wikipedia is misleading at best.


 * In general, I think that Trafalgar Law's character hasn't been explored nearly enough for us to all be assuming anything. Since we can't go switching back and forth between differing opinions on his occupation, we'll just need to stick with one. There are good reasons why both arguments can be true - however, until his character is further established I think we should just leave it as is. If the title of Doctor ends up only being associated with his manipulation of body parts, it's not like we won't change it - we'll obviously accept that you've been right and change it accordingly. However, it's best to go by his current given title until further notice, and going around changing it again and again isn't productive. He is a very interesting character and it does look like he'll be more built upon. :) Sephirona 04:25, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, I still think that leaving the 'Doctor' title is assuming; I am open to the possibility that Law is actually a doctor; I just think that randomly stating that he is a doctor when no solid information has been given to support that is working against this site's purpose of providing proven, credible information to fans. However, I have not registered on this site and have no intention to do so, so I'll just drop the subject now and leave it to those who have.


 * His title actually is "Dark Doctor" as translated - that isn't assumed. It's the closest to proven, credible information that we have. But it's good to see that there are many who care about the validity of the articles here. :) Sephirona 04:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I know I said I'd leave this topic alone, but I just have to mention this. Based on what we've seen so far, I'd say that taking a title *that* literally isn't exactly the best thing to do when coming up with character info for One Piece characters. Look at Zoro: he is called 'The Pirate Hunter', yet he has never actively hunted pirates; he just brought down anyone who happened to have a bounty so he could eat. Zoro has even said himself that the title had nothing to do with him. In addition, even you yourself just said that Law's title is 'the closest to proven, credible information that we have', not that it actually is solid, credible information. On other pages, speculated info has been deleted due to a lack of solid evidence; I just can't see why those rules change so drastically for this. Sorry for dragging this subject on; I read Sephirona's post, my mind immediately came up with a response, and there was no way it was going to leave me alone until I posted it.

And like I said, until his character is further established, we can't conclude anything either and should just stick with one decision - the one that seems most credible. If he's called the Dark Doctor by Oda himself, we should stick by it till it is disproved. Speculation is not preferred, but as the arc is new there's no way we'll know everything. His title, at least, isn't speculated to be Dark Doctor - that's what it is. You yourself tried to add yet unproven information to the Mythbusters page, which was uncalled for. I don't speak for everyone on this site either; please don't use my words in an effort to discredit everyone. Thanks :) Sephirona 05:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I admit I did that; I didn't notice this Discussion Panel by that point and was just operating under the assumption that some stubborn fan was dead-set on keeping 'his fantastic theory' from being deleted, and I figured I'd take a different approach and attempt to get the word across on a different page that Law's 'doctor' status was speculation and not a proven fact. I'm not defending that move in any way, though, and I admit it was a dumb one. Though it may seem otherwise, I'm not trying to discredit anyone, I'm just saying there's no reason to come to the conclusion that Law is a doctor this quickly; I kinda figured that it's possible to just leave all talk of whether Law is a doctor or not out of his page altogether, or at least state that it's merely possible that he's a doctor and is not actually given. Then again, when you jumped the gun and immediately assumed that the Mythbusters change was my doing, you were right; maybe this wild guess will be dead on as well. Well, there we go; all the evidence I can think of has been given and any further arguing from me will just be repeats of what I've already said. You all can rest easy, I'm outta here; I can promise you that any further edits to this site regarding Law won't be my doing.

I didn't immediately assume it was you who added the information to the Mythbusters page - I knew it was you, it was in the history with your IP address. That said, I'm not disagreeing with your points either. You do present valid arguments, and it is definitely possible that the Doctor title could simply be referring to his abilities. I only said we should keep the original until further notice. A bit of what seems like speculation is inevitable when it comes to such fresh developments, but it'll all be resolved later. Thanks for your input. :) Sephirona 06:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Its one of those rare cases we can put it off as a theory - see Speculations for more. --One-Winged Hawk 17:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Ummm..i still dont see how he is a doctor....this site is supposed to state facts. Just because his name "Dark Doctor" it doesnt mean he is a doctor. When editing it says to leave the doctor on his occupations until further discussion, but i think it should be the other way around. Until it is absolutely proven that he is doctor, we should leave it out of his occupations. Oathkeeper of oblivion 22:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This is where the lack of facts and common sense puts us all in a problem. Here's what I figure are the keys points of it. It's a repetition but considering some points might have been lost, might as well list them down.


 * Law's pirate epithet is Surgeon of Death. Common sense states that if a guy's being called a doctor, he is a doctor even if he doesn't show us their skills. However since Law has not yet shown any medical skills of any sort, there is an argument that he might not be a doctor because of him not showing any skills. This same argument however would have to apply to everyone else who is called being in a certain occupation but have yet shown such skills. One example is Lafitte who is called a navigator but has not been seen navigating.
 * Nicknames given by Marines and the general public sometimes tend to be wrong in some cases. Calling Zoro a Pirate Hunter for instance, is generally wrong after he joined Luffy and became a pirate himself. Nicknames however are given based on the most prominent if not most popular aspects of an individual. Zoro is thus called a Pirate Hunter even after he became a pirate himself because his exploits as a pirate hunter are his most prominent aspect to any opponent. So if Law is not a doctor, why call him a doctor if it's not an aspect of his.
 * Law has some sort Devil Fruit ability that looks like surgery. Maybe he got that nickname because of his ability. It could be but there is no known fact yet if this is true. In fact, the amount of evidence to support this theory is just as less if not lesser than Law being a doctor himself. If this is true however, why give him a nickname that suggests a doctor rather than a nickname that suggests a person who rips body parts and replaces them.


 * All in all the fact remains that we are at a dilemma for now. Saying Law is a doctor maybe untrue to some since he has not shown any doctoring skills and his nickname maybe just a nickname. Saying Law is not a doctor on the other hand, maybe untrue to others since he is called a doctor and he may have some medical skills that he isn't using now in the same way that Chopper doesn't use his medical skills while fighting an opponent. While both are opposing ideas that have no resolve until more is revealed, the initial notion revealed in the first chapter that Law appeared in that implies that he is a doctor however has more weight at the time. When Oda reveals whether Law is called a doctor by profession or by ability description, that is when things can be truly resolved as stated before.


 * While it isn't resolved yet, I however wish to point out that Law's pirate crew is called the "Heart Pirates". Unless this means that Law is promoter of love and peace, their name seems to have a medical canontation. Also, apart from Law and Jean Bart, the jumpsuits that Bepo and the other two crew members wear almost look medical. Just food for thought for the argument.Mugiwara Franky 13:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out, that if it hasn't been exactly proven we should take it off his occupations. Oathkeeper of oblivion 19:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But considering all known facts point to him being a Doctor, it kinda should be until disproved.Mugiwara Franky 14:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But we shouldn't put it there if we're not sure about it. Shouldn't we wait until there is clear, concrete evidence to support this? We're supposed to put facts, not "probably true theories". I'm not saying that there is no chance that he is a doctor; I'm saying that we should leave it out, at least until we can gather more information about him. Oathkeeper of oblivion 02:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * While taking it out because its a theory maybe justifiable, its kinda more speculative based to take it out. True, its speculative that Law is a doctor based on as little as a title but its more speculative to say he's not a doctor on nothing. There is very little currently supporting that he is a doctor, but there is less than zero supporting that he isn't. One scale of the argument has a few points while the other has none. In retrospect, the argument with the more points, even if they are little, should make sense against the argument which has lesser, which in this case is nothing and very speculative.


 * In any case as stated above, if it is revealed that Law is not a doctor then we just change it as simple as that and accept it. However, constantly changing the article back and forth because of the need of facts is too tiresome. It accomplishes nothing especially when the article's subject is currently not in focus.


 * Though this might be rude but from my opinion, this whole argument is like arguing whether Moria was a giant or not when he first appeared. Back then, his size was not established with regular sized people but with midgets. Since we did not know all the facts, we assumed he was a giant and that was that until the necessary facts were revealed. Arguing whether Moria was or wasn't a giant before the necessary facts were revealed would be pointless. The same thing applies to Law here. It's just as pointless at the moment to argue whether Law is or isn't a doctor now, as it was to argue about Moria being a giant before he was fully revealed.Mugiwara Franky 10:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

My thoughts are as follows; removing Law from Occupations (Doctor) would NOT be saying with 100 percent certainty that he isn't a doctor, but leaving him on says beyond a reasonable doubt that he IS. Until it is demonstrated where the title comes from it's not proven beyond a reasonable doubt either way, I know the people who are arguing to keep him on the occupation (Doctor) category think that it is but if it was this discussion probably wouldn't have gone on this long. 96.242.70.208 10:45, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * New Chapter just came out. Law states he's a Doctor.  Argument over.DemonRin 18:56, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Additionally, people have been saying that Law's Jolly Roger appears as a mark on Whitebeard's IV drips from Newgate's first appearances. The manga images are blurry, but show that it's possible. Does anyone know if the anime images are clearer? Besides that, though possibly coincidental, the pattern on the stockings worn by the nurses tending to Whitebeard matches the pattern on Trafalgar's hat. What would you say is the likelihood that Law, who has already professed to being a doctor, was Whitebeard's own physician? CorbeauKarasu 12:50, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

That's almost probably not a 'nodachi'.
Ignoring the fact that what's almost clearly meant is 'odachi' (the term for a japanese-type greatsword), the fact is his weapon's a katana; if nothing else, you can see how fuggin' short the handle is in the picture there. Somewhere between this and the over-all wishy-washy description of Zoro's swords (also katana, damn it), i'm getting annoyed at all the nit-picking over how much not-katanas these swords are supposed to be.

Anyways, i'm going ahead and changing it 'cause i'm feeling justified after this little spiel. Odds are it'll be reverted just as quickly, but as a man, i can't just do nothing. KojiroZERO 01:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * A nodachi is a real type of Japanese sword, as well. That picture wasn't the only picture in which the sword shows up - in Chapter 505, on page 11 there's another picture of the sword in which the handle clearly looks much longer along with the rest of the sword. Oda's awesome, but he's not perfect; it's probably best not to only judge based on one specific panel.


 * Katana are traditionally held at the waist, but Law does not do this. Whether it is an Odachi or a Nodachi may be up to debate, but it seems most unlikely to be a katana, at least. In fact, in my opinion, labeling it as a Nodachi was correct, based, at least, on this reference page about


 * Odachi: http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/odachi_gallery.html
 * and a site with clearer pictures of different Nodachi here:
 * http://www.hyoho.com/Nkage1.html.


 * Traditional Odachi handles, on average, seem much longer in ratio to the blade, though this is said to be varied. Especially on the bottom left of the Nodachi page, you can see that the Nodachi in question has a wrapped hilt, much like Law's. Many of the Odachi have no binding around the area. With that said, it's still wonderful that you cared enough to bring up this issue; however, I'm going to revert it back to Nodachi, based on the aesthetic references I've found. Thanks for the input :) Sephirona 03:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Feh, fair enough. Although i'd still like to complain that how a sword is worn is the only real difference between a katana and a tachi, and as such it's place at rest is little more then a trifiling difference when deciding what a sword is, that's not exactly topical.


 * Still, i don't like the use of 'nodachi', either. The term is supposed to refer to swords used on the battlefield, including tachi; anything involving great swords should, itself, be referred to as 'odachi', since that's the term used for large blades. Rather than change it myself, though, i'll let you alter the page, assuming my arguement has persuaded you to do so. KojiroZERO 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
"Law is the first character to give another character the middle finger in One Piece"

Do we really need this? It seems irrelevent and pointless.203.94.188.15 00:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Law's Pirate Flag
Anyone have any ideas on the meaning of Laws flag? Doflamingo (sp?) has a similar flag but with an 'X' mark through it. I've come to believe that the meaning of the smily face is "Great Age of Piracy" or the "Age of Dreams". In One Piece Dofamingos underling Bellamy constantly talked about the end of the Great Age of Piracy and of dreams in the Gaia Arc. He continued to preach about how no one dreams anymore and stuff like that. Since he was an underling of Doflamingo's crew and used the same flag Dofalimgo probably believes in the same thing. Now, Law has the exact opposite of Dofalmigo's flag so he supports the Great age of Piracy and the creation of dreams. Anyone have any other explanations because I've been thinking about this for a while and would like to see other views on the matter. ---Insomniacpie 22:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)Insomniacpie

Interesting Observation
I have been looking at how Law handles his sword, and judging by that it would appear that he is left-handed. And get this, the two generals in the Battle of Trafalgar, Napoleon Bonaparte and Horatio Nelson, were also both left-handed. I don't think the connection is a coincidence.--DancePowderer 01:57, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Theres a type of crab with one big right claw and one little claw and the predators of this crab have learnt how to deal with this claw. Well every so often a crab is born with the big claw on the left and the predators DON'T know how to deal with left handed claws. So the rarer left handed claw has a bigger chance of survival.


 * Same scenario, nature prefers right handers but throws in the left handers to throw the right handers out of whack. Ever heard of the phrase "led with your left", it relates to fighting where the first punch is thrown. The first punch is normally just to diversion and the second hand is brought in for a hander hit. Well a left hand is slightly harder to block by a normal right handed person, ergo leading with the left hand opens up the defender's defense line for a huge hit from the stronger right hand. Again its the same scenario as the crabs.


 * Many fictional works will purposely have a fighter who is left handed, because of the same reason; left handers have an edge against the common right handed fighters. One-Winged Hawk 09:37, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Napoleon Bonaparte himself was not present at Trafalgar because he was a ground-force general and not a naval officer. The french fleet was led by Vice Admiral Villeneuve (I don't know if he was a left-hander). As to Horatio Nelson, was he left-handed from birth? He lost his right hand in a battle, which means that he had only this hand. El Chupacabra 16:30, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

You're right about Nelson. I forgot he lost his right arm. I forgot about Villeneuve at the Trafalgar. You've done your homework, EC. Still, all historical significances aside, I'm pretty sure that Law is left-handed. If you look at how he handles his sword, that makes it look like he is a lefty. I'm a lefty myself and I remember doing a similar stance when I used to play swords as a kid. It's been noted in a couple other articles (Whitebeard and Zoro's, I think), so I thought it might be worth mentioning.--DancePowderer 17:22, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * He might be a left-hander, but it is also possible that he trained to fight with the left hand in order to have an advantage against right-handed fighters; I've read that some swordsmen in the real world did this. If he is a true left-hander he will not only fight with the left hand but also write with it, hold the knife when eating etc. Did he do anything else then fighting with his left? If yes he must be a lefty and if not, he have just trained this fighting style. However, in our world, around 10% of people are left-handed, and I think there a similar amount of left-handers in One Piece. El Chupacabra 14:56, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Page Locked?
Why has Law's page been locked from editing? Is it that whole "Is he or isn't he a doctor" thing that I see above? Well, that's no longer a problem with the new chapter (It's not a spoiler anymore, the Full chapter and even scanlations are out). But for those of you who haven't read it yet: SPOILER ALERT! SKIP THE NEXT SENTENCE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!
 * In the New Chapter, Law shows up and flat out says "I am a Doctor".

The page needs to be edited to add recent events and put this moronic "Doctor Law" fight to bed once and for all. DemonRin 18:48, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * The chapters out. When someone with the powers to unlock comes along, it will be undone. Until then, its okay to talk about spoilers on talk pages and its hardly a spoiler once the chapter is out. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 18:55, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * MF locked the page because people updated it despite our spoiler rule, so complain to these people if you cannot wait.
 * And for the hasty people, remember : No Mangastream Scanlation pictures on this wiki ! Kdom 19:33, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wasn't going to post any pictures at all, because I don't know how and I don't think its worth messing with, but I'm curious, why no Mangastream scans? DemonRin 00:50, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Its the same as to why no one used Stephen's translations when he was writing them. You just didn't out of respect.  Mangestream doesn't provide scanalations for anyone but themselves and on their site they even note this.  This is why their work is stamped with their watermark so they know someone has used it.  To use mangastreams images would be a bad thing for both sites if mangastream started kicking up a storm about it.  Its kinda the same for that RAW scan provider, the Chinese group, who stamp their RAWS with their mark because they DON'T want them used for scanalations.  One-Winged Hawk 00:54, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks! I didn't care either way, was just curious as to why. DemonRin 01:22, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

For the lock on the page, I kinda did do it because of people updating it despite the actual chapter not being out. It's really a problem with what's happening now. Like with last week, when by my quote, "Shit hit the fan spoilers" came out. Stuff like that is the stuff people just want to note down right away regardless of spoiler rules.

For managstream images, well they do say on their site not take their stuff so yeah, respect their rules.Mugiwara Franky 02:36, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Who would want images from a bad site that ruins a manga's art by putting a watermark on top of the pages? SeaTerror 18:41, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

His Epithet
With the current chapter revealing Law is a doctor we need to decide which one is the correct one. Is it Dark Doctor or Surgeon of Death? SeaTerror 18:42, March 19, 2010 (UTC)