File talk:Ace Dies.png

Edit War
Same issue with File:Ace Saves Luffy.png: Both images have good quality. However, the manga image lacks colorization and the anime image lacks detail (necklace). 02:06, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's protocol. We ALWAYS use the manga photo if the anime counterpart has significant differences. [my point? Whitebeard getting his head blown off in the manga instead of his mustache] This is just as major. colorization isn't enough reason to use a non-canon photograph, especially when it creates a plot hole while the necklace is intact on his grave. M4ND0N (talk) 16:50, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

The difference is in the Whitebeard image, the whole point of it WAS that half his face got blown off. The point of this image has nothing to do with the necklace. It has to do with Ace dying. 18:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

We replaced the photo where Franky finds Kuma guarding the Sunny with the photo from the manga because he wasn't as battered up in the anime. That's way more minor than Ace's necklace being destroyed. it doesn't matter if both images show him dead, Ace doesn't lose his necklace in the manga. that's more than significant enough to warrant using the manga photo. M4ND0N (talk) 00:21, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

The Franky/Kuma image was about him being battered up. This image is not about the necklace. It's a minor detail that doesn't effect the scene. 01:17, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Neither does the Franky/Kuma image. He's still battered up in the anime photo and it does the same job the manga photo would, but we used the manga panel instead. Why? Because we follow the canonicity of the story. Ace's necklace not being there isn't a minor detail because it creates a plot hole in regards to his gravestone having the necklace intact. As far as anime/manga differences go, Ace's necklace is one of the bigger ones and we've used manga photos for less. It's how we've always done things here, if an anime photo doesn't follow the manga closely enough then we use the manga photo. there really shouldn't even be a debate here, it's what we do with EVERY similar situation. M4ND0N (talk) 01:37, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

We only do it if it's major. If the anime image has many details missing and doesn't portray the scene enough, then we use the manga. This is not one of those cases. And please stop uploading the manga images separately. It violates the guidelines and can be treated as vandalism. 01:43, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

You already took that to my talk page and I admit I made a mistake there, let's stay on topic though. Like I already said, Ace losing his necklace IS major, and we've replaced anime photos with their manga counterparts for far less than that. Does it convey the scene? Sure, but you could say that for any of Toei's adaptions of the manga scenes, it doesn't make it viable to use in a wiki that only goes by canonical facts. Ace doesn't lose his necklace, therefore the anime pic isn't canon, so I can't understand why it's even an issue. What harm is there in using the manga photos since the anime counterparts make significant changes to the original depiction? M4ND0N (talk) 03:31, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

What harm is there in keeping the anime image, which nobody had a problem with until you started complaining about it? It doesn't make a significant change. The necklace is missing. So what? If you want to get that specific, we may as well change EVERY anime image to manga since color doesn't exist. 04:04, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well there you go, now I know that color is your motivation for wanting the image to stay the way it is. You have a bias leaning towards wanting everything in the article to be colored, while all I want to do is make it more consistent to the canonicity of the story. Can we get an admin in here to help decide this? Obviously this debate is going nowhere if we don't have outside opinions to contribute. Again, I stand by what I said. the anime image isn't canon and therefore shouldn't be used. M4ND0N (talk) 05:33, June 14, 2013 (UTC).

If we can't come to a conclusion, we should have a poll. 09:15, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think that the anime image is better because it can perfectly describe the scene. But Lelouch, you can't make a poll when only 3 people have stated their opinion. We need input. 10:09, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

What is the minimum amount of people needed in order to start a poll? 10:11, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

There is no minimun amount of people but we definitely need more than three people's opinion to start a poll. 10:14, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

It's true that it describes the seen just fine, I'll admit that. But going back to the Franky/Kuma meeting that worked just as well to convey the scene, but we still use the manga photo, so I'm basing my opinion off consistency, because whether or not a photo works to convey a scene, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be used if Toei decides to make drastic changes to the art, like in the case of Ace's necklace. With that being said, a poll would work but like Lelouch said we don't have enough people. M4ND0N (talk) 14:50, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

The anime version is quite nice. However, the manga version helps to convey better the "shock" of that scene that adds something extra to it. Notice all the amount of blood underneath Ace's head and upper body that comes in contrast with the peaceful smile he has. There is also a technical issue with the missing necklace. Since it appears afterwards in his grave it is important enough to be visible in his death scene. MasterDeva (talk) 16:35, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

I honestly don't know if the presence of color is more important than the loss of the necklace. This would be an image where a colored manga image would be best in my mind, but we don't allow those here... So I am neutral, I guess. 17:05, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Do we have enough people to do a poll yet? Because like SomeDude said the presence of color is nice, but the loss of necklace is more significant. And I agree fully MasterDeva, the manga panel looks far more violent and works a lot better. M4ND0N (talk) 00:01, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I wasn't talking about violence... Well, nevermind. MasterDeva (talk) 09:45, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

My mistake, yeah. I was referencing what you said about all the blood and how it appears more violent because of it in my eyes. M4ND0N (talk) 16:19, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

As I said above, I am neutral. But color is really important, since it's really hard to differentiate black blood from shadows in the manga (at least in the pools around him). My gut reaction is to say use the manga anyways, but then I think about the intended use for the image is just to show Ace dead, and has nothing to do with the necklace. That's why I'm neutral here.

And depending on the outcome, Ace's his anime/manga differences section doesn't show the change in the necklace, which it should, regardless of the outcome. Once this is resolved, the losing version should be uploaded separately and both images put in the section. 12:42, July 1, 2013 (UTC)