Talk:Sanji/Misc.

Zoro
Murry brought up an interesting note on the chat, that he doesn't remember Sanji calling Zoro by his name the entire series. Does anybody remember even a moment when he used his real name and not a nickname? Since if nobody does, it should definetly be added to the Trivia, the same goes for Zoro never calling Sanji by his name.

There must be a moment in the whole series.. Its really hard to think about it.. It needs a lot of search..

Dream
Would it be reasonable to say that Sanji is the first member of the Straw Hats to achieve one of his dreams, and as such worth noting in the trivia?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 19:39, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

No, they did not reach All Blue.

They reached Fishman Island and Sanji met the mermaids.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 19:47, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

It was a joke. Although one of his dreams was to meet the Mermaid Princess as he knew she was the most beautifull girl in the world.

That he did, and as such he has achieved one of his dreams, being the first among the Straw Hats to do so.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 19:49, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Don't know if its worth mentioning, but I dont have a problem. Wait for more to see it..

Fair enough.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 20:16, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

All Blue is his dream. The Mermaid Princess thing was a joke. SeaTerror 00:06, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Mermaid Princess' case is like Usopp wanting to see Elbaf...

It's on the Straw Hat Pirates article, so why not put it here too?--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 00:04, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Because it was a joke and we'd seem guillible if we put it here. Besides, his dream is already explained in his personality section.

Mellorine!
I just connected the pun revolving around the word Mellorine famously quoted from Sanji. In addition to it being a substitute for ice cream, it is also a romanization pun of the japanese onomatopoeia "Mero mero", which means "to fall down drunk", including being overcome with emotion such as love or lust. I figured it out due to it being the name of Boa Hancock's devil fruit. superlogan7437 (talk) 00:05, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Manga Anime Difference
What is whith the difference in the fight Luffy and Sanji vs Smoker in Loguetown? In the Anime he wasn't really involved but in the manga in chapter 100 he was defeated by Smoker. In the Smoker-article it was mentioned. Shouldn't it be added here too? 139.18.1.5 11:24, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Bobbin battle
I added Sanji vs. Bobin and it started a discussion with Kaido and later Filu. At first I had this discussion on Kaido's and mine Talk Pages, but with Filu, Kaido suggested we should move this to the actual talk page:

(I dont how to do this so I went with my intuitions)


 * page history log


 * 09:21, February 2, 2017‎ Kaido King of the Beasts (→‎Major Battles: bobbin was one kick)
 * 09:40, February 2, 2017‎ Rhavkin (So was PX7, Surume, Ikaros, Wadatsumi, Sheepshead... Kalifa was zero kicks)
 * 09:47, February 2, 2017‎ Kaido King of the Beasts (Undo revision 1396527 by Rhavkin (talk)the difference is that Bobbin was not battling Sanji)


 * user talk page


 * Let's continue here instead of edits war. I don't think the numbers of hits should be relevant, especially when Sanji fight multiple adversaries so we can't know how many hits each actual get. As for "Bobbin was not battling Sanji" I would like to bring up Kalifa again, and most recently, Luffy. Rhavkin (talk) 09:54, February 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * The difference is that with Kalifa, Sanji was intending to battle her but couldn't attack her, while with Luffy, Luffy accepted fighting Sanji but refused to attack him back. Sanji simply attacked Bobbin once and ran, it'd be like if Luffy rushed up and punched a random soldier that wasn't trying to stop him on his way to the spot to meet Sanji. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 09:57, February 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sanji has intended to hit Bobbin. And as for the "Hit and Run", that's pretty much like Luffy vs. Coby on Water 7 and Marineford. The numbers of hits, the existence of a counter-attack, and the duration of the fight shouldn't matter. Rhavkin (talk) 10:29, February 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * For Luffy vs. Coby both Luffy and Coby were intending to attack each other. Bobbin never intended to attack Sanji at all. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 11:03, February 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, Luffy didn't had an intention to fight Sanji. Sanji didn't had an intention to fight his brothers during his childhood. Luffy didn't fought Bellamy in Mock Town, just like Shanks didn't fought Higuma. Sugar didn't had an intention to fight Usopp, And I can think of a hundred surprise attacks, jumping to defend, and OHKOs that counts as fights. A one sided battle is still a battle. Rhavkin (talk) 11:35, February 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * page history log


 * 18:08, February 2, 2017‎ Rhavkin (Undo revision 1396530 by Kaido King of the Beasts (talk))
 * 18:11, February 2, 2017‎ Fliu (that's not really a battle)
 * 18:13, February 2, 2017‎ Rhavkin (I had this discussion with Kaido on our talk pages. Please see them before undoing)
 * 18:47, February 2, 2017‎ Kaido King of the Beasts (Undo revision 1396701 by Rhavkin (talk)the discussion wasn't resolved. Let's take it to an actual talk page)

And here we are... Rhavkin (talk) 19:01, February 2, 2017 (UTC)

The way I see it, Bobbin tries to eat a piece of meat, Sanji kicks him into a wall and then runs off. That was all there is to it.Fliu (talk) 19:23, February 2, 2017 (UTC)

And I say the fact Sanji kicked him is more then enough. Rhavkin (talk) 19:36, February 2, 2017 (UTC)

Given that we list Shiryu killing a bunch of Impel Down guards who had no intention of fighting him in 3 seconds on his page as a "Major Battle"...--Xilinoc (talk) 22:52, February 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * We should remove that as well. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:07, February 2, 2017 (UTC)

Kaido, I have no idea where your coming from. You suddenly want to change who know how many characters pages because you don't think Sanji vs. Bobbin is a big enough battle, despite the fact that this wiki has done more with a lot less?

The best theory I can came up with (and correct me if I'm wrong by giving the actual reason) is that the problem came from the title. If we go literally, then with "Major Battle" there should also be "Minor Battles", however I believe the criterias will be too "nitpicky".

Now, I'm not saying we should change the title on every page, but let us not think of them literally: instead of "Major" think of them more as "Notable Battles". That way, a battle that shake Sanji out of his doubt and depression, a battle that makes him actually say "what the hell am I doing?", a battle that similar to Jinbe vs. Opera has more to do with the consequences then the actual fighting, you can not say it is not notable, and by that, I mean Major. Rhavkin (talk) 05:37, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

I honestly don't really consider that a fight. Sanji kicked him and that was the end of it. He's kicked his own crewmates before, yet we don't see those listed. A violent act does not always mean a fight. 05:41, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Those are comic relief, let's not get to into it... Rhavkin (talk) 05:57, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

It's not that I don't consider it a MAJOR battle, it's more that I don't consider it a battle at all. It's literally a single attack against someone who was not belligerent/intending to fight. DP is right that a violent act is not always a fight. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:00, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

The wiki has indeed been very inconsistent with the major battles section, it's true. But the way I see it here is that Bobbin was not engaged in a fight, only Sanji was. He got beat up, that's all. That should not be considered a battle. 14:36, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

And again: Luffy in Mock Town bar, Shanks in Foosha Village bar, Sanji vs Kalifa, PTS Pacifistas on Sabaody... All of those are either one sided, without intention, and\or OHKO that counts. Are you really saying none of those are battles? Rhavkin (talk) 14:47, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

The former two should be removed, but the latter two should stay because Sanji was intending to fight Kalifa but simply couldn't attack her, while the Pacifistas were going to attack the Straw Hats but were finished off in one blow. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:59, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Do you know the definition of intent? Sanji could attack Kalifa but wouldn't because of his chivalrous nature. The Pacifistas are machines so any intentions are artificial. Sanji fully intended to attack Bobbin, he didn't say "that meat ain't for you, please put it back" and attack once Bobbin refuse. Rhavkin (talk) 15:06, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Would you say Luffy knocking Boodie out was a fight? Because I wouldn't.

16:14, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Are you comparing knocking someone out to protect him, and attack a member of the arc's main antagonist group? Rhavkin (talk) 18:37, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

I'm comparing two instances of someone offguard being knocked out by an unexpected attack, yes.

18:48, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

It was an attack, yes. Not a fight. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:49, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Nova, that exactly where "intent" play a role. Kaido, that's a One Hit Knock Out type of battle. Rhavkin (talk) 18:56, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

No because Bobbin never had any intent to attack or fight Sanji. He only wanted to eat meat. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:57, February 3, 2017 (UTC)


 * For those of you not keeping track, it's currently 5 for "not a fight" and 1 for "a fight".


 * 19:09, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Who care about Bobbin intentions? He was knock down on the first hit. Nine out of ten battle are someone attacking without the other want to engage in a battle.

The only times I can think about where both parties know they ware going to fight each other are Baroque Works plan, Enel game, Usopp vs. Luffy, CP9 key challenge, marine vs pirates after Tenryūbito incident, edd war, marineford war, payback war, and Doflamingo's game.

All other times ware either one side attacking with intent of stopping or hurting the other, while the other want the fulfill his plan or maintain the peace without interruptions, and counter-attack. Rhavkin (talk) 19:21, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

So Nove, are you confirming that there are 5 people who are wrong? Rhavkin (talk) 19:23, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Cute. It gets to 7 people for "not a fight" and still just you for "a fight" and this closes without further discussion.

20:08, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Okay, first of all it was 5 to 2 but I let it slide, now you suddenly count 7? How about instead of counting score, someone should give an actual reason way this isn't a battle but the rest of the example I mentioned are? What exactly are this wiki rules for calling something a fight? Two character wanting to fight and each one at least trying to attack? It's One Piece not Pokemon!. Rhavkin (talk) 20:33, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

We had a similar discussion about Kuzan and Doflamingo. Kuzan used his power on Doflamingo to stop him from further injuring Smoker. Doflamingo did not then engage Kuzan, and we decided it shouldn't count as a battle since "stop, no, freeze, break out, okay" isn't actually a fight. Same idea applies here. 21:28, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

We've given valid reasons. It was an unexpected attack that ended before Bobbin even had a chance to react.

And if you read what I actually said, I didn't say there are 7 against you now. I said that when there are 7 against just you, it's getting closed by majority vote.

22:43, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

From both my humble common knowledge and wikictionary, a battle is a situation where two parties engage in a fight. The dude tried to eat meat. The other dude kicked him. Ergo, that's not a battle. I don't see how this is so difficult to understand. As I said earlier, this wiki is full of these wrong battle sections, so don't use those as a comparison. 23:07, February 3, 2017 (UTC)

Look, numerous times has someone tried to add, change, remove, or altogether edit a page on it's been undoed because "that is not how this wiki works". Now I'm adding something by this wiki rules and you're saying that this custom is wrong? If you remove every surprise OHKO on this wiki (which also include by definition most unseen battles due to "speculation"), then I'll drop the Sanji vs. Bobbin even without the 7 for 1 ratio. Until then there is no reason to remove it. Rhavkin (talk) 09:00, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

One hit KOs are still battles so long as the other side was still intending to fight. Not simply be a jerk and eat meat. Anyways, look like we can close this; if anyone comes across "fights" similar to this in major battles sections feel free to remove them. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:56, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

So you're okay with deleting any and all surprise attacks? And it won't be considered vandalism or need to be discussed case by case? Who exactly can you determine intent? Does a third party jumping to defend someone count if the intent was to fight someone else? How strong should the intent be? Is it a person intent if someone one was order to attack? How about Hakuba vs block D? Did Cavendish intended to fall asleep? And how about Elizabello vs. block B? They most certainly didn't had intent to be blown away. Luffy fired the Davy Back fight gun without the rest of the Straw Hat intent. Luffy ordered the Straw Hat to escape Kuma on Sabaody but Kuma still attacked them, does that count? Did you think I was exaggerating when I said I could think of a hundred examples? Rhavkin (talk) 14:18, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Not a fight. As Rhavkin is the only person to disagree, we have a clear majority. I'm closing the discussion. 14:43, February 6, 2017 (UTC)

Trivia Addition
To my knowledge, Oda uses the same two katakana (メロ, mero) as the first syllables for (メロリン, merorin). this brings up the question regarding how the wiki deals with pun-based translations if they are at risk being treated as mere speculation? AnonymousAnomani (talk) 13:33, April 8, 2020 (UTC)

Trying to match a different word to something that is the speculative part. Especially a French word to a Japanese word. SeaTerror (talk) 22:24, April 8, 2020 (UTC)

"Mellorine" is a loanword that the Japanese language borrowed from French, not to mention that you're underselling Oda's ability to make puns.

That being said, I don't have a super strong opinion on this and would be interested in input from someone who knows Japanese - is "Mero" being a part of "Merorin" a strong enough indication of a possible pun on "meromero"? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:07, April 8, 2020 (UTC)