Talk:Nui Nui no Mi

Trivia
Who keeps erasing the corrections on the trivia section?? Kin'emon and Van der Decken also call their devil fruits curse/spell/magic. Vazelos3 (talk) 13:02, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

That trivia isn't needed, really. 22:14, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Staw; 1st-time instances is okay, but such type of trivia shouldn't go onto 2nd, 3rd, etc.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 22:26, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Moved
Who the hell moved this? Just because he didn't say fruit doesn't mean it can be moved without discussion. Unless someone can come up with an award-winning argument why it shouldn't be moved back, I'm moving it back. 21:58, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

i think it may have been User:SeaTerror but im not sure, anyway ill recreate the page myself-- 22:10, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

WTF dude, you made a page with a similar name because this one is locked? Are you f**cking kidding me? 22:23, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

calm down, seaterror deleted the old page so i remade it. if the page i made needs to be deleted too then that should be an easy thing to do-- 22:25, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

SeaTerror...didn't...delete...the...page...because...he is...not...an...admin...on...this...wiki... 22:29, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

well he deleted all content from the page and made it redirect to Leo, so thats basically deleting the page.-- 23:01, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

so why is this a redirect? we have plenty of information, we even have a name.

cause seaterror decided to make it into a redirect-- 23:38, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

People are blind SeaTerror (talk) 01:42, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

true but then it was turned back-- 02:03, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

If it's a redirect, add information in the redirect, don't create random pages. 08:52, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

klobis is the one who did it not seaterror  Rainelz 10:42, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe if you lack a "no Mi", then it can't be proved to be a Devil Fruit yet. Like the Mato Mato no Mi, maybe we should either wait until a proper source says so, or at least a video game, or move the page to another name: "Nui Nui Power" or something. 15:51, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

But we didn't wait on the Mato Mato no Mi. It's the exact same deal here. Shirahoshi called Decken's power a curse, and Leo said it was some kind of spell. A curse is just another kind of spell. We already know from Fishman Island and Kin'emon that not all cultures are as aware of Devil Fruits as most of them are. If it didn't have the same naming scheme as the other Devil Fruits I'd agree, but it's the Mato Mato no Mi all over again. 16:00, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

obviously a devil fruit, what else could it be-- 17:08, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Well, Devil Fruits are said to be cursed or something (look way back in the first few chapters or so...). 01:59, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

It seems that we've come to a conclusion, however, there's been edit wars again. I know it's not their fault, since I doubt they were aware of this discussion. I think the best option is to open a poll and add it to Category:Open Polls. That way, everyone will be aware of it and we can come to a definite conclusion. 10:50, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that a poll is needed but I believe there is a little more to be discussed. I went over the Japanese text and I noticed that it says Nui Nui "power" instead of "ability" which could be used as an argument against Nui Nui no Mi. Other than that the naming scheme, words and actions of Leo point to it being a Devil Fruit. MasterDeva (talk) 13:15, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

DancePowderer forged Japanese name for the "fruit" in the box. (Firstly DFs names are katakana, not hiragana) It should be N/A. --Klobis (talk) 01:42, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't forge anything. I wasn't even on here when the page was made so don't point fingers if you're just going to lie. 04:03, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Can't we just settle this once and for all by having a poll? 08:31, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

A poll is not needed. 23:03, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Since we're not getting anywhere, a poll does work fine. 23:36, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * My three suggestions are:
 * Redirect under Leo's section.
 * Keep as Nui Nui no Mi.
 * Move to Nui Nui Power.
 * These three are the best options I can think of for the vote. 23:37, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

keep as nui nui no mi-- 23:45, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the text wall, but I wanted to do this for the sake of comparison:

Nui Nui no Mi:
 * Has the name of a Devil Fruit (although the double word structure is common to many Japanese onomatopoeia, and it was written in hiragana, not katakana as it should be).
 * Abilities appear to be those of a Devil Fruit - no other explanation.
 * Has not been expressly confirmed to be a Devil Fruit (abilities not referred to as 能力, person not referred to as 能力者).
 * Obviously a Devil Fruit - not considered speculation.

Fujitora (Before Chapter 705):
 * Has the name of an admiral (Colour + Animal in Kanji, furigana for colour in hiragana, furigana for animal in katakana)
 * Demonstrated strength matching that of an admiral - other possible explanations.
 * Has the appearance of an admiral (famous Japanese actor's face).
 * Was sent to Dressrosa by Akainu as a response to hearing Smoker's report which held Kuzan's suggestion to send the admirals.
 * Was not expressly confirmed to be an admiral until 705.
 * Obviously an admiral - considered speculation.

If obviousness was the test for speculation, more details about Fujitora would have been written before his infobox confirmation in Chapter 705. If obviousness was the test, Absalom's page would contain a paragraph about his recent activities as Absa the reporter, unless there's another possible theory as to why an undetected person is sailing away from Kid's hideout in a ship with Thriller Bark on the sails. In both of those cases, you were able to lock pages and prevent information being added that had not been expressly confirmed. With the Nui Nui, you've been rushing you create a page where the Japanese name hasn't been confirmed. Although it's very likely that it will be the ヌイヌイの実, the evidence available also suggests that Marco's fruit will be called the Tori Tori no Mi, Model Phoenix (トリトリの実 モデル：不死鳥（フェニックス）), yet that page has been deleted whenever someone tries to create it, and the last few years have passed without anyone crying over the fact that the info's in Marco's Abilities & Powers section. I really don't understand why there's so much inconsistency in how these matters are approached by the wiki. 00:20, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

The difference between those two has to do with room for error. I'll admit, when I first saw that blind guy go aggro on those guys my initial thought was maybe he was Fujitora. But I didn't do or say anymore because there was too much room for error. For all we knew, one of the Gorosei died and the blind guy was his replacement and he just happened to be on holiday there. You could argue both cases, from what we knew at the time, about just as easily. But with the "Nui Nui Power", given what we know about what it does, its disyllabic naming scheme, and different cultural aversions we've encountered regarding Devil Fruit (the Kuja tribe thinking the Boas' powers came from a gorgon curse, Decken's power called a curse by Shirahoshi, Kin'emon and Momonosuke's strange fruits and sorcery), it falls perfectly in line with the other three instances. Normally, I'm all for discretion when it comes to this kind of thing, but there comes a point when declared certainty is safe. Decken gave every indication he was a DF user, including his caution around water, but no one actually said it was a Devil Fruit. But from what we knew, we could safely say it was a DF. If I told you I had something that was huge, made of metal, hauled cargo long distances, with wheels that ran on rails, you would instantly conclude that I was talking about a train. Same thing with Decken, and less so but still significantly Leo, every indication of a Devil Fruit, without someone actually saying the phrase "Devil Fruit". 01:19, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

The 'margin of error' argument doesn't really work for Absa(lom). I don't see any other reasonable explanation there.

I'll leave aside Fujitora for now, since it is easier to say things in hindsight, but even when he hadn't been physically introduced, the name 'Fujitora' and the context made it clear that that person was an Admiral (looking at the talk page, it appears that was accepted, although it was still treated as speculation in the article).

I'd probably have less of an issue with this if your speculation policy was consistent but... it's clearly not. At the very least, this article should be in the conjectural-titled articles category, because the Japanese name's unknown (Oda might have a super-secret reason for using hiragana that we don't know about, or he might not). 06:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)