Talk:Raizo

So, raizou clothes are taken from traditional kabuki like Kanjuro style and this pic (even the diamond shaped thingies):



- His ugly face seems to be the Hannya traditional mask (like Hannyabal)



-His eyebrows are shaped like lighting bolts (RAIzou)

-His moon shaped scar on the forehead could be a reference to naruto headband and obviously to the kouzuki family he is affiliated to (kouzuki = moonlight)



 I don't know if all of this is confirmed in any way, if someone else is more expert than me on this topic, he can edit this Wiki page



Roomer8 (talk) 16:42, February 26, 2016 (UTC) Roomer8

Samurai
In the chapter 808, Ginrummy says: "Samurai is a catch-all term for warriors from the wano country"

Should Raizo be considered Samurai and Ninja? Mihawk http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/sedali/images/c/c6/Moha2.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/35?cb=20160826212954talk:Mihawk Moha| Moha  22:19, December 19, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah he's a samurai. 17:26, December 20, 2017 (UTC)

Maki Maki Devil Fruit?
So there's been some discussion over whether Raizo has the Maki Maki (Scroll-Scroll) Fruit similar to Kin'emon and Shinobu's powers. I don't wish to jump the gun just yet, but here's the info so far:
 * First, is Maki Maki written in Japanese as マキマキ? If not, then we can probably rule it out as a DF for the time being.
 * Obviously, a scroll that can capture attacks is completely abnormal, and abnormal Wano techniques we've seen so far have been DF techniques. But I wouldn't consider it as abnormal as transforming rocks into clothing, or decaying objects with a touch. The scroll is still an external object, and it does fit with Raizo's occupation as a ninja.

Right now, so long as the Japanese matches up, I'm leaning toward treating it as a fruit. But I'd also understand if people wished to wait on this. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:15, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Does this help in any way? Rhavkin (talk) 16:23, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

So it's written in kanji. However, I had overlooked the fact that Juku Juku is also written in kanji, so it's still up for discussion imo. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:31, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I'd say wait on this until more evidence is apparent since there is too little detail to support this right now. -Adv193 (talk) 16:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Also, There is the off possibility that Raizo is using a scroll that ate a DF, since he did used other technique that does not include scrolls, and he said that "[his] scrolls can wrap around anything". Rhavkin (talk) 16:45, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I dont think it is a scroll that ate the scroll scroll fruit cause it is redundant... I vote for Maki Maki no Mi since there is a lot of evidence pointing to it as a Devil Fruit if we were to not treat it this as a devil fruit might as well not treat Juku Juku no Mi as a devil fruit. Also you could definitely see that Raizo summons the scroll from thin air and notjust have the scroll at hand. I suggest a voting for this one   19:33, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

The fact that Raizo called it "Maki Maki" doesn't mean that's the fruit's name. The Wano character don't name their attacks like those who know about Devil Fruits. Also, Raizo summoning a scroll could be Ninjutsu, not necessarily part of the attack. Rhavkin (talk) 19:42, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

That fact that Oda goes on his way to put the maki maki part when he could just put it as a scroll technique makes it more possible to be a devil fruit. Name any time that oda do a technique that have repeating names that doesnt turn out to be a devil fruit? Also kinemon and shinobu both did name their attacks as repwating word then jutsu. Kinemon's fuku fuku jutsu and shinobu juku juku enticing jutsu. 21:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Rainelz, especially since we have two precedents of abilities from Wano chars referred to as "jutsu" and also one, in the case of the Juku Juku no Mi, where the double-katakana become furigana to go along with kanji for an extra Japanese flair. I'd argue it is exactly the very same case as the Juku Juku no Mi, actually, which was given an article.Karama20 (talk) 11:13, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this is the exact same case as the Juku Juku no Mi down to its user being a ninja referring to it as their "jutsu", or am I wrong? (as far as I recall there has never been a reference to Shinobu's ability being Fruit-based.) So imo there is no reason to treat it differently. Also, I'm pretty sure there has never been a precedent of a non Zoan fruit being held by an object so I think that point is irrelevant. Karama20 (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I see no reason to believe this isn't the same as the other fruits that were named in the same way in the manga. Mato Mato, Nui Nui, Fuku Fuku, Juku Juku, Toki Toki. Should be considered a fruit until stated otherwise in my opinion. DewClamChum (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Speculation to call it a fruit. The page shouldn't have been made yet. SeaTerror (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't think there's enough information to consider Raizo's power a DF yet, we'll surely see him fight in the next few weeks so we can totally wait for further confirmation, however, the similarities to a DF should be added as Trivia. 19:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

It's the exact same Japanese spelling as Juku Juku no Mi though. So whatever we decide here, should probably apply to that too. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Just like the Juku Juku no Mi, even though they are very likely Devil Fruits, and the pages should be saved for when that is confirmed, I don't think they should be up right now. I see the wiki as a place where properly sourced information is stored, and there's no source for this. I'm open to arguments against my position, though. StoopidGuy (talk) 21:53, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree that it is speculatory to assume it is a Devil Fruit until otherwise confirmed. 23:48, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

So for those of you against assuming them to be fruits, would you be cool keeping their pages but renaming them to jutsus? Or just listing them on the ninjutsu page. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:32, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I think the ninjutsu page makes more sense, personally. 02:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Let's keep it at the ninjutsu page for now, we can simply make a page for it when it's confirmed. ( Dot  Talk  ) 02:55, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

We should keep the draft for the pages and put the techniques under ninjutsu for now, in my opinion. StoopidGuy (talk) 14:14, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

I think is clear that both Shinobu and Raizo are fruits, the spelling is clear. Cracker-Kun (talk) 14:35, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

It may be clear, but you are introducing a personal interpretation that is not explicit in the manga (unless you can show that it must be a fruit). StoopidGuy (talk) 19:51, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Raizo aside, Shinobu is confirmed to be a Devil Fruit user. In Chapter 935, she states that "sorcery users" like her and Robin are weakened in water. 20:29, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, so keep Juku Juku and delete Maki Maki. Can we put this to bed? 15:30, 24 October 2020 (UTC)