Talk:Marshall D. Teach

OP ep. 461
The images of Teach in the most recent episode would make great additions to this page - namely, his gleeful look upon killing Thatch.

Beard
I was wondering why the bit I just put in about Blackbeard's beard getting thicker after becoming a Shichibukai was removed. I've seen less relevant information kept and, honestly, look at Blackbeard during his appearances on Jaya and Banaro Islands and compare them with when he was at the Shichibukai meeting and when he appears in Impel Down and tell me with a straight face there is no difference.

The guy above has a point, really. If you're going to emphasize his appearance, it's dumb that you would exclude his beard growth. That was actually one of the first things I noticed after seeing his appearance as a Shichibukai.

Definately, it's his namesake for chirst's sake. Not mentioning the growth is like luffy getting a cut on his hat and not mentioning it.

Bounty?
I wonder how rich he is right now. After defeating and capturing Ace, he must have received a lot of money from Ace's bounty, which is still remain unknown, but I believe it's a very huge amount of belli (maybe higher than Luffy's). $_$


 * No bounty. --One-Winged Hawk 15:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

its defiantly higher than luffy's i mean hes 2nd commander of the white beard pirates that puts him 3rd highest ranked in the most powerful pirate crew on the sea


 * He still has no bounty!


 * Plus also could you sign your posts with " ~ " please. One-Winged Hawk 06:50, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the above poster was talking about Ace's bounty then Blackbeard. S.C. Amigo 17:20, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Profile Picture
I would highly advise, that the anime pictures from the Ace vs Blackbeard fight are not used considering that his body is horribly drawn being like a ball than a pin, like he was originally drawn.


 * (Please sign your comments with ~.


 * Not every scene in the anime was drawn badly. But agree with none of the bad images being used. If there is better, use it. If not - manga it. :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 15:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? He looks fine the way they drew him. He looks like he a real pirate. Thats how they're supposed to look. It wouldn't look right him being skinny or something. And I recommend that someone put in more pictures of him using his fruit during the Ace fight. If Aokiji was changed and had pictures added, then Blackbeard should as well. Every logia user in fact should have some more pictures added for their profile.


 * His proportions is like a pin, not a ball like it was drawn in that anime episode. Gojita 19:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)Gojita


 * Dan, sign your comments!


 * The quality in that episode was put into the animation itself, but not matching the original artwork. Whoever did the original cells did it half in Oda's style and half in their own style.


 * From my experience for many animes, you can have anything up to 8 artists working on a series. 50% of them will be Korean if the show is heading that way, because by Korean law they have to have them - 9/10 these are the worst artists normally (note:once you spot their work in a show, from then on then you notice whenever they bring these guys in. It can be bad sometimes. :-/). The best animator is brought in for the most important stuff, in Beyblade that was Takao x Kai in season 3 and think also the very last fight in the series. (all in all the guy did 4 eps of the series and every ep was amazing).


 * The frame rate wasn't high (usual sign of the "master" coming in is smooth animation), it was a little jaggered in places. The overall quality wasn't too bad... It just wasn't good. Its actually disappointing, if that was a top end animator doing that episode, he could have done much better. I'm guessing if they choose a choice they choose someone who could do special effects well because the best artwork was in the effects rather then animation and character.... And that fight was pretty much all effects once it took off.


 * Anyway... I could do that all day. Aokiji was done pretty well and BB wasn't. If the drawing is good, you can replace the picture, but sometimes the drawing is god damn awful your better off with the manga. I've seen some beauties people have pulled up on K-Fs of Nami mutants. :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 21:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

What's the deal with Teach's profile picture? It seems constantly to want to revert itself to a pic taken from anime episode 325. Personally I liked the Schibukai colorspread profile pic and that should be the one we use until something more decent appears in the anime.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 18:42, March 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, this image is much better. Actually I think color spread should be used rather than anime when they match our Character box guidelines Kdom 19:52, March 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can I ask why the profile pic always reverts to the same horrible image? I mean, it was not the first time this has happend, that Teach's profile pic from episode 325 is suddenly there without any visible edit as far I can notice. Or does somebody just keep putting that pic for some undescribable reason.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 22:23, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

I made a poll to vote on that topic, What is your favorite character image for Blackbeard ? Anime from episode 444 Color spread from Chapter 532 he is also on the file talk page but I understand we can duplicate it Kdom 08:45, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities at Jaya
So judging by his history, would Blackbeard have had the Yami Yami powers when he met Luffy at Jaya?203.94.188.15 23:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would probably be a safe assumption, unless Blackbeard had a weird compulsion to avoid eating it for a good couple weeks at least after stealing it, despite knowing that Whitebeard had to be after him already.

Haki, Not Devil Fruit
There's always the possiblity that the Yami Yami No Mi's power-cancelling power does not come from the fruit itself, but rather based on Haki, which, for Blackbeard, he himself is onluy partially immune to which may explain his inability to turn intangible like most logia users


 * He specifically explained why he can't become intangible as seen here, Darkness sucks everything thus it can't let anything pass through. Also, it's unconfirmed if Teach knows Haki.Mugiwara Franky 12:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Devil Fruit
He never really states that he receives twice as much damage, just that he receives more damage than usual. -AmazeKing 02:45, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

New crew members
I wanted to know if it was confirmed that the new nakama of Blackbeard really are Catarina, Basco Shoot, San Juan Wolf and another guy, though I did see the new members, nothing there was saying who they were. GMTails 21:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Their names haven't been revealed yet so it's not actually confirmed but as you might have guessed their the pirates Ivankov mentioned in chapter 538 during his talk with Bon Kurei regarding Level 6 in Impel Down. MasterDeva 21:50, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, then I suppose this shouldn't be posted until confirmation right? I know it CAN be them, but it couldn't be as well. GMTails 21:57, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well their pictures has been uploaded in 3 examples already so that is too late. :-)) The risk is low enough, compare to the risk of edit war if we don't do it... Kdom 22:22, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a long shot, but since Roche Thompson and George Black were also mentioned, one of them could be it. --1201 22:42, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think the biggest shot was that Basco Shot is clearly drinking a bunch. As for how they pinned down the giant as San Juan Wolf, I have no clue. The Pope 00:22, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I guess it is because his nickname is "Colossal Ship", giving us the idea that he's really huge. GMTails 00:25, February 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Where'd that nickname come from? Did Ivankov call him that?The Pope 01:03, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, actualy she called him "Colossal BATTLEship". GMTails 01:23, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Anyways, Chapter 576 confirmed it. S.C. Amigo 17:20, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Not a D?
Okay fans seem to have jumped the gun on this one. I have read chapter 576 and as far I understand it when Whitebeard says that Blackbeard is not one of them he does not mean that he is not a D but he is not one the folk that Roger has been waiting for. As such he does not carry the flame of the extingushed bloodline or the will of Roger or Ace, whatever that means.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 23:22, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a mistranslation, and means he's not the one that will be Pirate King. S.C. Amigo 17:20, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused
According to this passage:

'''The time Blackbeard escaped from Whitebeards crew and stole the Yami Yami no Mi was around some time after Luffy left Arlong Park since shown in a flashback of Ace was Ace showing Whitebeard Luffys first bounty and being proud. Because of this it is assumed Blackbeard did not kill Thatch yet since Ace left immediately to hunt down Blackbeard after he fled.'''

But according to chapter 133, Dalton said that Blackbeard attacked Drum island months ago but if Blackbeard killed Thatch when Luffy left Arlong Park, then how much time did Blackbeard manage to gather his crews and go to Drum Island super-fast before Luffy arrive? I find that to be confusing

Joekido 14:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * It only becomes confusing if you think that Ace left directly after BB left and never returned to the Moby Dick under the time he was looking for Teach. And Ace was looking for Teach for quite some time by his own admission. Time wise it is not an impossiblity because Dalton only mentioned that it was not even a full year since the BB pirates destroyed Drum. But the only thing that was implied about Ace going after BB was that he could not be convinced otherwise and went against the better judgement of his captain not that he did not visit during his search for BB.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 16:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting. Somehow, I feel this reveal some information about how much time passed from the Arlong arc to Drum Island?
 * Ilovefoxes 05:41, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hum, I found it hard to believe that Blackbeard killed Thatch at the same time than Luffy left Arlong Park. That would mean that the travel time between Arlong Park and Drum is much longer than the current believe. Do we have a plot hole here :-). Speaking of plot hole, I'm searching for the article page on that subject, someone remember what its name is Kdom 10:58, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ok it was deleted. Is it me who suggested that... ? Kdom 11:26, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

"They"
I've noticed that with recent chapter events the matter regarding the peculiar "them" that has been brought up just after Teach's speech to Luffy in Mock Town. Is anyone going to put something about that in Teach's profile? -StrangerAtaru 00:26, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * The "they" that Luffy and Zoro mentioned was most likely Blackbeard's crew. For what's happened recently, we have absolutely no idea what Teach exactly did to enable him to get Whitebeard's ability. The theory that Blackbeard's got a parasitic twin in his belly thus allowing him to have more than one Devil Fruit is at least very speculative if not silly. I mean we don't even know for sure if Blackbeard ate a Devil Fruit that sprouted from Whitebeard's corpse or if he used his own Devil Fruit powers to suck the ability out.Mugiwara Franky 07:09, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just one note. After Luffy and Zoro talk about "them", you can see some crewmates in the background behind Blackbeard. So it is related to his crew.
 * Ilovefoxes 15:56, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I should add that silliness to Mythbusters... Since theres are lots of silly theories coming out of this. One-Winged Hawk 08:31, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Trigger
I think we should write that in this page, what the "trigger" is. Has it been revealed yet? 71.246.214.240 00:30, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Fixing Age
Instead of putting his age as: "In his 40s" shouldn't we put "40s"? --KiumaruHamachi 19:23, April 9, 2010 (UTC)KiuamruHamachi


 * Not sure, to me it shoudl really be saying "At least 40" since Ace died at 20 and BB is "twice his age". One-Winged Hawk 20:50, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point but having "At Least" or "In his" is saying you don't know his name yet. --KiumaruHamachi 16:55, April 10, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Real Age/Mistranslation
Guys, this is something very important.And may very well shock Wiki to it's core...All joking's aside, his age of "40" is horribly wrong.And it seriously is an embarresment to Wiki to have it wrong for such a long time, and needs to be changed to "Unknown" fast.There was a mistranslation of Chapter 440, in where Ace reveals Teach's real age.It was a mistranslation.Here is what Ace actually said:.....Start....Originally Posted by Aohige_AP Chapter 440 Teach: Zehahahaha... what's up Ace, it's been a while! How did you find this place? Ace: Teach, let's cut the crap... there's no way a man who has lived twice the life doesn't understand our situation here. Teach: Yeah... alright then, let me ask you one thing first.

I bet some translators translated that as Teach is double the age of Ace. But that's not what he said. The original text worded it this way, and even put emphasis (using emphasizing dots) over "lived twice" line. Check the RAW.

' '''END .....  Here is the link to a poster quoting it, you will need to click on view post, and have an account there:'''

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=12053&page=134

There was another translation from the Anime episode 446(newest one) and it goes like this:

"Ace:Teach, let's cut the idle talk!You should know the rules,having lived twice as much as others."

Link to that video: http://www.watch-onepiece.com/watch/...nglish_Subbed/

It is a proven fact that Blackbeard's age is probably impossible to guess.It would be most likely in his +80's..By the way, these are not speculatioms, these are facts that were hidden because of mistranlastions.

So should i edit it?It would be my first edit.Thanks for listening.Sorry if bit hard to read, first time you know..-Some Hero

Originally Posted by Aohige_AP Chapter 440 Teach: Zehahahaha... what's up Ace, it's been a while! How did you find this place? Ace: Teach, let's cut the crap... there's no way a man who has lived twice the life doesn't understand our situation here. Teach: Yeah... alright then, let me ask you one thing first.

I bet some translators translated that as Teach is double the age of Ace. But that's not what he said. The original text worded it this way, and even put emphasis (using emphasizing dots) over "lived twice" line. Check the RAW. This is basically the first quote guys.I'm sorry, i still don't know how this works.Link Above---Some hero


 * WOW! That's a huge mistranslation. SO he shouldve even have an age? Right? KiumaruHamachi 16:06, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Yes, i was shocked when i found out.But it really shows why and how he acts that way.His "foolishness" may in fact come from him being jaded and really not surprised by anything.Doesn't it change your view on him?He talks in the middle of fights because he has become almost too cocky. His massive strengh and the fact he really doesn't have to think about dieng could have made him this way.He might have gotten his ammoral views because he isn't afraid of being "punished" after he dies.--Some Hero

(Sign your signature with four ~ ~ ~ ~ [keep them together]) No. It doesn't. I was surprised to see a mistranslation. That's why I trust hard copy manga or the anime rather than the online manga(albeit: i read it) anyways: his age should be removed until Oda says something about it. --KiumaruHamachi 16:20, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Okay...But it should be better to have it as "unknown" and mention this in his trivia or somewhere in his descrition?That he has lived for a long time?Some hero 16:26, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Some hero


 * I've noticed that we don't even put "Age: Deceased" down for those who are deceased, so it should be deleted completely. We don't put unknown because there's no need for it. I mean: if we don't know the age, than we don't know the age. --KiumaruHamachi 16:28, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi


 * Ditto, unless we know the age upon death in which case: "21: (deceased)" should be written. Or alternately "Unknown:(deceased)". One-Winged Hawk 16:30, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Can we have some more examples such as Stephen's translation up here before we ultimately decide? As for the age, but we can write Unknown, witha Ref against it to note the age mentioning. Also, sometimes things change for the anime. One-Winged Hawk 16:29, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, leave his age out of the page.But we should probably mention this somewhere.Also, i got this from the manga.I was just ramdomly watching the Anime(it was my first episode) and i noticed it aswell.So even without the Anime's proof, it is still a fact..I just brought the Anime because they obviously did not do that for no reason(show that flashback right when it was revealed BB was different).Some hero 16:33, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Some hero


 * Admins will see the converstion when they log in. So for now, leave the age. But when they come, they'll decide what to do with it. KiumaruHamachi 16:36, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

I just wanted to make my first edit..Now i never will get too...I worked so hard to try and change something..Some hero 16:41, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Some hero


 * Go ahead. I'm not stopping you. Just saying. --KiumaruHamachi 16:42, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

I won't...Someone else should do it.Since i don't know how yet...Just wanted to helpSome hero 16:48, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Some hero


 * Click "Edit Page" than press Crtl and F and type age. Once you find the age delete the age. Than press save page. and your done. --KiumaruHamachi 16:52, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Yay! I did it! Thank you! My job here is done.Thank you again!Some hero 16:55, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Some hero

Welcome and anytime. :) --KiumaruHamachi 16:56, April 16, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

We're all doomed!
Now that Blackbeard has Whitebeard's quake power now, Does that now make him the worlds' strongest man?Black Leg Sanji 01:19, April 21, 2010 (UTC)Black Leg Sanji

of course not because whitebeard wasnt called "the worlds strongest man"just because of his devil fruit powers.this title given to whitebeard was the result of a combination of his deil fruit abilities his enormous strength endurance combat skill and his extremely powerfull haki.so just having his devil fruit is not enough to make blackbeard "the worlds strongest man"Halaros 17:14, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

This is not a discussion board. Take it somewhere else. Subrosian 18:04, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Coloration
Is he colored differently in the anime? Or is that just dark lightning that makes it look like that? It seems to me like the latter, but I'd like anyone else's opinion on the matter. The Pope 17:02, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * See, what did I say about this decision being a nightmare. As for coloring, the trim on his jacket is gold in the manga and yellow in the anime. Bastian964 17:05, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Choosing between the two colors" isn't a nightmare; all that needs to be determined is whether or not they're different, and if they're different, then the toggle is fine.

This is just a weird case. The color scheme is near-identical, but with tiny little differences like that. I think it's just a matter of shading in that image, but I'll wait and see what other people say. The Pope 17:10, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The manga picture is ten times better than the anime one, so let us, who prefer it, have it along with the anime one. That what the toggle is for not for outfit differences. Kdom 17:28, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * If a picture works, then you shouldn't need an alternate. What'll happen if a better image of him comes out? Will you be fine with having just the anime image, or still insist on using both? The Pope 17:30, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I sitll insist on having both of them. If the anime picture is better then we will have two good images related to the 2 medias. There was a lot of frustration due to this non written anime only rule. The toggle allows to make everyone happy. The only one who isn't is you apparently. Kdom 17:38, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you're going to argue that, then argue it on the template talk page. MF agrees that if there's no crucial difference, such as color, then having two images is pointless. The Pope 18:06, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, he said that he "guess(es it would be) maybe too much". That's hardly a resounding agreement.Bastian964 18:26, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

If there is a color difference then there should be two images. SeaTerror 20:14, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd agree...except I really don't see that much of a color difference. The Pope 21:46, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Don't see a difference except the anime one shows more of Teach's body. For this case, personal preference maybe not what is needed.Mugiwara Franky 04:39, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thekindwellmeaningone's questions

 * Is It okay If add on to Marshals trivia, about him being the only know DF user to possess two different kinds of DF fruits?

Is It ok for me to add onto Marshalls trivia? About him being the only know DF user to possess two different kinds of DF fruits? Thekindwellmeaningone 21:50, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dont' think its ness. Also, Trivia Guidelines is your friend, consulting it will give you a rough idea on if you should or shouldn't add stuff. We'll let you know if you make mistakes anyway, or we disagree. Don't be afriad to just edit + add, everyone has to start editing somewhere. 94.168.119.106 21:57, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Is It ok for me to add to Marshals trivia, for him being the only past Shichibukai to join the Shichibukai, solely for the benefits?

Is It okay for me add to Marshals trivia, about him being the only known former Shichibukai to join the World Governments; for the sheer benefits of being a Shichibukai? Thekindwellmeaningone 22:28, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Read above.  YazzyDream  22:33, September 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Were my additions ok?

Were my additions, alright with everyone? Thekindwellmeaningone 23:37, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't need to ask every time you make an edit. If someone disagrees they'll change it. No big deal. I've also put all your questions under one heading since they all corralate with each other. --YazzyDream 01:17, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Why were my edits reverted? They made sense.
Why were additions my removed? They made sense. Such as Marshall D. Teach, being the second Shichibukai to be knowledgeable of Haki. Iamnofool 02:27, October 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * The trivia were removed as they were obvious and were stated elsewhere in the article.Mugiwara Franky 02:10, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Does he really fear death?
While it did seem that he panicked and begged for his life when Whitebeard was attacking him, it seems that it was likely just a ploy to delay the attack for a few seconds so that his crew could intervene. So rather than cowardice, it could've just been Blackbeard's typical underhanded tactics. After all, he both intended to kill Whitebeard and knew he wasn't as strong as Whitebeard, so he could've been planning for the fight to go that way from the start. 75.76.213.106 06:52, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

How about adding more pictures?
How about adding more pictures? Such as more photos from the Impel Down Invasion? Or the attack on Marineford? Also, why not add photos of the Island the Blackbeard Pirates assaulted?70.49.221.68 22:20, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Possible trivia, additions?
Shouldn't it be mentioned under his trivia, that before he got his nickname, he originally lacked one? Shouldn't it also be mentioned that he is the only former Whitebeard Pirate to have become a past Shichibukai?A Wikia Helper 00:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

No, because the nickname thing could be said about anyone. And the shichibukai thing is again, too obvious. Trivia should be things that are not necessarily apparent to the average reader.DancePowderer 00:46, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Add onto anime and manga differences.
Such as when the Blackbeard Pirates attacked Impel Down, that how they managed down to Level 4 was extended in the anime.A Wikia Helper 18:35, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

That would fit better into the Impel Down Arc page.DancePowderer 18:56, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

When did he became a Shichibukai?
What episode/chapter did Blackbeard became a Shichibukai exactly? Peruzka 21:19, January 3, 2011 (UTC) Peruzka

Some time between chapter 442 and Luffy's first visit to Amazon Lily, between the time his and Ace's fight ended and when Elder Nyon read in a newspaper that Teach was made a Shichibukai for bringing Ace in. There was never actually a scene showing him being sworn in as a Shichibukai.DancePowderer 00:56, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

We are first told that he indeed became a Shichibukai when Kuma told Moriah this in chapter 474. NANLIT 03:40, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I forgot about that, you're right. My bad. At least I was in the right time frame, lol.DancePowderer 04:19, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Enormous stamina?
Shouldn't it be mentioned under his abilities & powers that he has inexhaustible stamina, seeing how he went from MarieJois, stealing a Marine battleship with his crew, beating numerous Impel Down guards, fought Luffy, battled Marines at Marineford, battled Edward Newgate, Marine Vice Admiral Garp and Fleet Admiral Sengoku, attacked an unknown island in the New World turned down a chance to fight the Red-Haired Pirates, and still showed no visble signs of being tuckered out.A Wikia Helper 19:35, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why you think that everything you described happened in quick succession from one to another? Blackbeard invaded Impel Down but he met little resistance from the guards (the Mariejois Marines should be around the same level). They weren't capable of making him exert enough stamina to even physically move; he used his Devil Fruit to take them out. Luffy and Magellan where the only ones to damage him. Luffy's attack however was shown to have little effect on him and Magellan's poison was neutralized by the antidote from Shiliew.


 * Following next we have the Battle of Marineford events. It was made clear that a span of days passed after Whitebeard's death. The townspeople of Fuusha Village have being seeing ships for "days" and Luffy fell unconscious after being heavily injured from all the battles he had. Note also that a significant amount of time must have passed before he woke up too. MasterDeva 20:21, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Still he has inexhaustible stamina with all he has done in such a short amount of time.A Wikia Helper 16:47, January 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * The term "inexhaustible" would be incorrect, "incredible" though sounds just about right and doesn't allude to speculation like the former. MasterDeva 18:06, January 15, 2011 (UTC)