Talk:Chapter 866

Translations Issues
There are two translations (mangastream and jaiminisbox) that say different things, and I think this is the best way to talk about all of them. Before that I would like to say that eventually we'll just let the raw decide, but until then pages are being created for apparently no reason:


 * Mosquito incident- MS says Eyri, Jbox says Eiri -> wiki has a page called Eiri/
 * Yoruru comment- in MS he is talking about Hajrudin's fighting spirit, in Jbox he is talking about Raideen (that we can presume is the trainer because of his respond) -> wiki created a page for Raideen.
 * Food blessing- in MS they are thanking "Rold! Gold! and Balg", in Jbox it say "[Village] Lord Goldberg" -> wiki has a page for Goldberg.
 * Little girl- MS says "Gerth", Jbox says "Gelz" -> wiki has a page called Gerth.

WTH? Am I missing a translation that everyone else is reading that has a "Mix-n'- Match"? I know MS aren't the best translators, and as I said, we'll wait for the raw, but can we please settle on a translation we use until then?? If we go by Jbox then we go with Jbox all the way shouldn't we?

I would like to ask this community make a guideline for translated source until the raw is out instead of constantly switching the names back and forth. Is Jbox acceptable by everyone?Rhavkin (talk) 18:03, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, most of the time we will take JB over MS any day because they have shown themselves to have a consistently better track record. The reason Gelz was eventually moved to Gerth was because it had more Norse ties and the translation held up. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:07, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

There are some RAWs available at spoiler.net, in particular there is an image with the infobox stating the name of Sheep's House. Can someone verify what the correct romanization of it should be? Since Jbox and MS use two different version, I guess the original name wasn't in English, so I suppose we won't translate it?

Sheep's House (羊の家). Also, there is a house on pages 9 and 15 with a sheep figure head. Is it to much of a speculation to say that is the actual house?

The raw for the girl's name is ゲルズ (geruzu), by the way, and on that topic, Kaido, I understand that it have more meaning in the MS translation, but since when are we deciding a character's name based on what's it might be in reference to? As far as I can tell, Dorry, Brogy, Oimo, Kashi, Yoruru, Yaruru, Hajrudin, Raideen, Goldberg and Eiri also doesn't have Norse ties (not that I did any research about it).

The point is: Whether or not we find a name reference, is irrelevant until confirmation by SBS, date books, or romanization. So why should this be any different if it's clear the name is originated from a poor translation? Rhavkin (talk) 18:43, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

So is "hitsuji no ie" the name we should use then? About the "reference to norse mythology", if no official romanization is available and if we have to choose between equally valid romanizations, we choose the ones adapting the most to the name references. For example, I believe there is no official romanization for Elbaf, however one of the reasons why we choose "Elbaf" over "Erbaf" was because "Elbaf" is "Fable" reversed (if there are other source, this is still an example to make the point).

We decide case-by-case and not whatever a specific scanlator says. I don't know why you're trying to make everything difficult, Rhavkin.

And Levi is right about the name references. 19:30, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

I'm not trying to make anything difficult for anyone, I just asked. the case-by-case you mention is just like the Mix-n'-Match I said first thing after my examples. The answer I got was that it was decided so based on a name reference. I do not think that that reason is enough. If my questions are in someway difficult for you I apologize. Rhavkin (talk) 19:31, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

So basically you're saying we can't make our own decisions and must follow a single scanlation, and disagree with "Gerth" simply because MS used it? 19:50, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

Now who's making it difficult? I have nothing against MS. All I'm saying is that the name reference alone isn't enough.

For example: We choose "Sora instead of "Sola" as the Vinsmoke matriarch name because it was the same name as the comic character, but then the anime said the comic character is "Sola" and we said it's non canon. Recently, the anime said that there are four new ministers and that they should be added. Is what the anime say acceptable or not? If this wiki goes by a case by case then what is the point of the guidelines?

If you want to be specific so it might be less difficult for you, let's see the raw. her name is ゲルズ (geruzu) if and until the volume corrects it. Usually for names that have "th" in them the raw are: Basicly, history has shown that at least the ending of her name shouldn't be "th". When you go to the wikipedia about Gerðr, select the japanese language and translate the title (on google) it spells "Gels". her name could very well be "Gelz", "Gels", "Geruzu", or even (unusually for this wiki common translation) "Gerth".
 * サ (sa)
 * Thatch=サッチ=Satchi
 * Miss Thursday=ミス・サースデー=Misu Sāsudē
 * Miss Catherina=ミス・キャサリーナ= Misu Kyasarīna
 * Gatherine=ギャサリン=Gyasarin
 * Bentham=ベンサム=Bensamu
 * ス(su)
 * Ninth=ナインス=Nainsu
 * Saldeath=サルデス=Sarudesu

MY point WASN'T this girl name! It was from where is it acceptable to get information. The girl is just an example for the "Sora/Sola", "Gala/Gara", "Nefeltari/Nefertari" or whatever there was and most definitely continue to be TRANSLATIONS ISSUES. Rhavkin (talk) 20:58, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

So you proved yourself that Gerðr/Gerth is spelled ゲルズ in Japanese (which is the girl's name), but we should go with "Gelz" because... Google Translate? 21:11, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

There is a limit to what guidelines can predict, it's inevitable to go case by case eventually. However, I certainly don't want to be bound by other groups' translation choices. That, by the way, also means you can argue a romanization if you have a better alternative, like you are doing now although I did not really understand which one this may be and why, tbh.

I don't see much point right this moment in trying to determine what the "correct" romanization is for names. It hasn't even been a full day since these translations came out, and both of them are unofficial. We'll be getting VIZ's version of things next week, and while we don't always go with their version of names (Zolo being the most obvious example), we'll have more options to consider. Any of the three groups could also eventually decide to change how they translate a name based on new context, so anything we decide on now might be changed in the future regardless.

Additionally, this argument that "Geruzu" cannot result in a name that ends in "th" is somewhat faulty because it implies the pronunciation in katakana follows the spelling of the romanized name, which may not be true. I'd like to point out that Hajrudin in katakana is Hairudin, Jaguar D. Saul in katakana is Haguwaaru D Sauro, and Don Krieg in katakana is Don Kuriiku. The katakana for a name does not always reflect the romanized spelling. I also think the limitations of writing foreign names in Japanese means there will ALWAYS be translation issues; that's when it falls on us as a community to discuss what we want on the wiki. MizuakiYume (talk) 22:48, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

Awikage, if you're accepting MS, goggle translate isn't too far off.

Leviathan, of course there is a limit, but who decide when to cross it? If every single giant has a Norse referenced named so it's acceptable, but with just one, and a history of using a different katakana for "th" it's a stretch.

MizuakiYume, maybe less than a day is soon, but the alternative is waiting for one of the more common sources (raw, official trans, romanization, SBS, volume release...). We waited nine months for Sanji's full name.

Once again, the topic isn't the girl's name, that discussion should go on her talk page. This is about using one source, no matter how wrong it is, until a proper one is out. Rhavkin (talk) 08:57, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

These are issues that are going to exist no matter what we do, not matter what source we choose from. Those scanlators don't know much better either. I understand that you so dislike the system of "yeah whatever just choose what's best" but evidently that's what the scanlators also do when thinking of the name they want to choose. We don't know any better, they don't know any better, it's just a matter of what we find the most plausible sounding name. Unfortunately yes, that is opinion-based, and that will cause some names to be changed back and forth, but that's okay. They're all both equally wrong and right, so long as you act maturely there shouldn't be any problems surrounding this. Choosing and sticking to one scanlator will only restrict us from bringing our own perspectives into deciding what sounds most plausable, and sometimes that's a spelling none of the scanlators use. 10:00, May 26, 2017 (UTC)