Talk:Justice

Started this page
I don't know the manga pages that match some of the episodes. Sorry about that. I'm not done with this page yet. One-Winged Hawk 17:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Execution method
Does the execution by stabbing with long blades exist in the real world or did Oda-sensei invent it exclusively for One Piece? If yes, this should be mentioned in the trivia section. El Chupacabra 16:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can't find anything.


 * Traditional methods that used a weapon were beheadments. King Henry the 8th had two of his wives killed, the first who he loved via a Frenchmen with a very fine blade. The second, her cousin he was merciless towards, she just got the sloppy English axeman.


 * Is suspect that Oda's method is simply for illustration purposes only as its pretty unorthodox. Sure it would kill a person, but thats not the most effective method of killing. The only full length we're seen is in the anime, wherein they stabbed Roger. Except a blade, even a stabbing, wouldn't have gone in so smoothly through the chest like they did. :-/ One-Winged Hawk 17:41, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Behading has a totally different technique. The weapon (Be it an axe, a sword or a guillotine) is used to chop off the head, while the executions in OP are peformed by stabbing. The only real-world execution by stabbing I know is forced suicide (Sepukku). However, then the convict had to stab himself with his own hands, unlike the stabbing in the series. However, I have an idea why Oda choosed this method instead of classical beheading (which was a common punishment for piracy, espicialy in Asia): While in a beheadment separates the convict's body in two parts (the head and the torso with attached limbs), the stabbing doesn't, or, in other words "the execution method in One Piece leaves the executed person's body in one piece". We know that Oda-sensei often uses puns, and this might be another one. El Chupacabra 11:20, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well theres that. But Oda hasn't actually shown the proper full length from start to finsh execution, so it can be a little open to debate anyway here. Part of me is tempted to wait to see if Oda pays off with execution details. One-Winged Hawk 11:48, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think he did not show the full execution because it would be a too violent image. It is also unlikely that the body is cut in pieces after the stab. There are some real-world execution methodes which involve cutting the convict in many pieces like slow slicing or hanging, drawing and quartering, but they are performed on a living victim in order to make him suffer more. However, from the images we have we know that the convict is stabbed with the blades at the beginning of the execution, and since such wounds are mortal, he dies nearly immediately. There is little sence to cut a dead body in pieces, espicially not on a public execution, because the convict's death is the climyx of the entire show. The people in the crowd are excited to see a living famous criminal being tortured and executed, but they have no interest in watching how his death body is butchered. El Chupacabra 12:41, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well throughout history, dead bodies weren't so significant, you either cut them up and dispose of them or put them on display. I doubt the WG puts them on display after death. It just seems a simple, stab -> dead -> move on routine. Most of the pain from being cut up would be dealt before they even reach the execution platform torturing, particularly in Impel Down criminals, who prob. saw many of them die in there. One-Winged Hawk 14:29, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I assume that the dead bodies are buried somewhere. My point is that they remain in one piece until the end of the execution, that's the pun. El Chupacabra 14:53, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know the pun, I just wanted to throw in the mystery of "Okay well what the heck do they do next???". ;-) One-Winged Hawk 15:56, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * This will remain a mystery unless Oda-sensei reveals it. Perhaps somebody will ask him this in the SBS. El Chupacabra 15:22, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

This section needs to be updated. It was clearly shown during the Marine Ford-Arc that the Marines intended to chop Ace's head off with their blades. Guess Oda simply thought that cutting heads off would be to crucial, since the manga was intended for kids at that time. 109.91.225.10 12:41, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Law Enforcement
Should we merge Law Enforcement into this article? El Chupacabra 15:31, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Didn't even know that existed, I don't see why they can't be merged, their both talking about the justice process. One-Winged Hawk 15:35, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to remove "moral justice" and "Abs. justice" list form and make it more paragraph, like "opinion" is right now. Theres a little bit too much "uncertainty" here on the matter of what counts towards what. Or even have a general paragraph about both types, either way I think this page needs a little tweaking. Its got stuff on here Oda's not made 100% sure is abs. or another form of justice. And I hope I got this across well, I've got to sign off for today, I just hit my limits of what I can do mentally.

Er, I might not edit tomorrow if I'm still ill I think. X_X' One-Winged Hawk 15:40, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, much better I am feeling now.


 * Okay I might as well get this over and done with jotted down because in half an hours time I'm likely to end up ill feeling again (this is hows its bouncing off me at the moment). I'm thinking of this pages layout:


 * Drop the whole "Abolsute Vs moral" completely
 * Make a general "justice" thing which combines all justice views together
 * Keep the "failures" bit, merge "documental" with general justice again.
 * punishment is still part of justice, keep.


 * Add the Law enforcement in here somehow... Can't think about that part well. Need more time. One-Winged Hawk 18:47, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I did the merger and sorted this page put overall. While we started out with a list of "this and thats" its been a little dated and was weakening anyway. The whole page has had a near enough overhaul. One-Winged Hawk 13:21, January 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay the page is now aimed at generally "justice" in total from law enforcers to punishments. I've kept the greater issues such as bounties off the page, as bounties is a strong enough independent article anyway and isn't really worth mentioning other then "they get bounties".  The bounty process is greater then this page requires it to be.  One-Winged Hawk 13:32, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Zoro's Picture
In the artical about the Golden Lion Pirates, it depicts Nami as she appeared on his crew. Under Arlong Pirates, Nami is shown as she did under Arlong's control. In the Foxy Pirates artical, it shows bother Chopper and Robin with their Foxy masks on. How come in the bounty hunter section it uses the regular Zoro instead of his attire when he was bounty hunter? Ryuzakiforever 03:35, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Zoro's clothes have never really changed significantly, so it would be meaningless to change it. He didn't change his wardrobe after he became a pirate.DancePowderer 03:45, January 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just a confirmation though; yes their suppose to wear the attaire when they were part of that crew or whatever... And Zoro now has a scar. This picture shouldn't show the "2 years later" Zoro just of note for future reference and when the time comes and all. One-Winged Hawk 22:17, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Moral Justice
I see no mention of Moral Justice whatsoever in this article and I know it was there before. Why was it removed?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 11:07, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Removed for no reason I guess. I thought there were 3 different forms of justice anyway. SeaTerror 11:34, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you sit down and look through the article, you'll see there is more then 3 forms mentioned here Sea, there is no need to detail each one. Also... I don't remember 2Moral" justice but I think if it was here it was removed because it was a bit vague to explain. One-Winged Hawk 21:09, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Well unless there's a good reason for it, Moral Justice (at least) needs to be put back. It also plays a big role in the series as the opposite side of Justice contrasting Marine Absolute Justice.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 10:44, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hey, read the above topics. I believe they mentioned they are dropping that absolute/moral justice completely, though I don't really know why. 14:08, January 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Its covered by the general explaination of "justice" on the page. "Through" is the main form of justice the Mairine's are suppose to practice, hence the greater explaination. Its distinct, unlike Morale and lazy justice because its the main documented form of justice most of the authorities are suppose to be complied to follow.


 * Saying that, if the form of justice now changes since a new guy is in charge, there is very much a reason to expand on it. The whole point of that first paragraph is just to explain Justice and how it changes per person with a few examples of peoples' opinion of justice. I've explained hwy through is there, and when you compare the 3 admirals examples, you don't really see much expansion on the other two "types" you list. One-Winged Hawk 21:09, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I understand why Absolute Justice is given distinction as the primary form of Marine Justice, but many links in articles refer to "Moral Justice", something that many people (particularly protagonists) follow. Justice is an important and recurring theme in the series of One Piece, and as such both sides should be given distinction.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 00:30, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

There are 3 forms of justice though. Absolute is what most Marines such as Akainu follow. Moral justice is most likely what somebody like Tashigi follows such as when she didn't arrest the Straw Hats. The third form is whatever you want to call what pirates like Luffy follow. SeaTerror 02:25, January 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * It was labelled as "personnel" justice not "moral" justice, which is where the problem is. The term "moral justice" or "human justice" s a little bit of a problematic wrd becuse while the series has shown us many forms of justice, there is no clear cut "moral" justice example because of that very reason.  The only details form of justice is literally the one the Marines support and its, for now, still regarded as the one most important opinion on "justice".


 * This is what I'm trying to say, we have a defination and examples of "abolsute Justice" but all else is vague. And, if we write a section on 'Moral' justice we are basically making a section that will be nothing more then speculation and our opinions on how much it differs from through justice.  Also, take note that even within "absolute" Justice there have been rare incidents of things that cross over into 'Moral' justice.  This is the same as saying "All pirates are evil" when the series has been showing mutlipler approaches to what a pirate is and does. 17:08, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think that Moral Justice is basically what pirates follow: they just go by their instincts and morals. 02:33, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

No. If that were the case then you wouldn't be able to call it "Moral" Justice. It would be a misnomer. Like a real life example would be somebody who claims they are pro-life but support the death penalty. SeaTerror 04:47, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I made an attempt to resolve the problem anyway. One-Winged Hawk 17:15, January 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Left some gaps for others' to fill in... mostly because I don't have the time to go over hundreds of chapters to fill it in my self anymore. "successes" needs expanding.  One-Winged Hawk 17:41, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's something. I just feel that Moral Justice needs as much distinction as Absolute Justice, that's all. If that can be achieved, I gots no complaints. And actually Angel, maybe I could help; I'm watching the FUNimation dubs of One Piece from the very beginning, and I'm currently at episode 42. While Ennies Lobby is the biggest example, I could still help our with what's already dubbed.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 23:26, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * I#d be thankful, I just don't have the time anymore to go through hundreds of episodes and chapters. Plus right now I'm ill (minor bug, be well I hope in a few days). One-Winged Hawk 15:13, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Alright. A list of key episodes to look at would be helpful though. I'm currently on episode 54.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 21:31, January 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * I can give a few ideas nothing more...Particularly your focusing on Marines like Tashigi, the Admirals, Smoker, Garp and the... Budda guy...


 * End of Arlong park (Luffy's first bounty), Bustercalls, Robin's childhood where she was on the run, End of the Alabasta Arc, Marine/Shichibukai meeting. Don't get distracted by the Marine - Whitebeard war, as big as of a event it is, most of it isn't actually that useful to the page and it comes down to a bare bone events overall.  One-Winged Hawk 22:21, January 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, the CP9 arcs and Impel Down are particularly the most important two arcs in my books as CP9 gives away a lot of the story from the non-pirate side of things and Impel Down is all about what the Marines do after throwing everyone in jail. One-Winged Hawk 22:23, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Neither of those have been dubbed yet, but I can remember a good bit. Not to mention this wiki itself gives plenty of info.--<font color="#0000FF">Kagi <font color="#FF0000">mizu -<font color="#008000">Seeya <font color="#FFA500">'round 05:32, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Watch them subbed or read the manga then. I still think moral justice should be on the article. SeaTerror 18:03, January 14, 2012 (UTC)