Talk:Charlotte Decuplets

Delete
There's no reason why this article exists if no other multibirth ones do. SeaTerror (talk) 22:12, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

They were introduced as a group in an infobox so the group should have a page just like any other group. If another multiple birth is introduced as a group, they will have a page as well. Rhavkin (talk) 22:17, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

They were given an infobox with a group name. I don't see why this should be deleted. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:36, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

What Kaido and Rhavkin said. It should stay. 23:47, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Roranoa, Kaido, and Rhavkin. Until each of these eighteen year olds get individual identities, which may or may not happen, this is the best we have.Observer Supreme 23:54, February 8, 2018 (UTC)

Keep it. They were introduced under that name. Could we eventually get their real names in a databook or sbs? Sure, but we'd never make separate pages for them or make the title a list of all their individual names. 01:21, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

If we do keep it, it should be "Dectuplets". It's spelled wrong as is. 06:27, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

Are you sure about the spelling, DP? Merriam-Webster has an entry for "decuplet", but not "dectuplet".
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 06:42, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&filter=dictionary&query=Dectuplets Not a real word apparently. SeaTerror (talk) 15:42, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

No, decuplet isn't a word that's entered the lexicon, but that's more because no woman in real life has given birth to ten living babies at once. It is still the word that's used when referring to such a situation. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:40, February 11, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with the deletion, "decuplet" is no group name, no more then "twins" or "triplets". I don't understand why did you think that it was a group just because it was written in a box... If we see a box saying "twins" or "triplets" with the names under it, we wouldn't create the group, would we? So why this case is different? It's obvious to ne that Oda didn't add the names for a lack of space... In fact in another box in the same page there was written "etc".

I meant DP's spelling, Kaido. SeaTerror (talk) 19:51, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Decuplets is a unique group name though because there's only one set of them in the Charlotte Family, unlike twins or triplets. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:12, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

But that's only a coincidence... if we follow this kind of reasoning, then we should create the group of "sons" and the one of "daughters", since they are obviously unique to the family too. My point is, that we are trying to pass a common name for a proper name as if it was an association or a rank. The only reason we are discussing this is because we don't know their individual names. The moment we will, then this page will also serve no purpose.

I'm not so sure this page would be split if we ever get these names. They are only really distinguishable in their appearance, personality, and actions if you split them by gender. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:46, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Maybe not even then. We have group pages, and pages for group members, and they are identified as a group, so even if we do get individuals names, there is no reason to delete a group page that has been identified as a group in an infobox. Rhavkin (talk) 21:03, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Keep the page. Even if they're named, I doubt we could do individual pages and having 10 names in the page title would be insane. Charlotte Decuplets works. 21:20, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Even if we do get their names, there's no need for 10 separate pages if their differences could be explained in a few short sentences. I doubt we'll get much more than that. Isn't this similar the Medaka Mermaid Quintuplets?
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 22:55, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

It all comes down how do we want to deal with merged topics then. Iirc we had a discussion about that a while ago, but I cannot remember it.

We decided that pages can only be split if they have different enough sections, like History or Abilities and Powers (refer to the Four Wise Men from Movie 5), or different categories (like Abdullah and Jeet and Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee). However, those require separate names. In this case, despite having different categories, Male Characters and Female Characters, this group has only one name so far and would likely never be split due to such little deviation in sections, like the Medaka Quintuplets mentioned earlier. I split a few pages after the last discussions, so I can answer any questions y'all have on that. 18:01, February 13, 2018 (UTC)

That's a good precedent, Kaizoku-Hime. I forgot about those mermaids. This is essentially the same situation then. 18:17, February 13, 2018 (UTC)

Except that they don't have a common history, have different categories, appearance and I bet once we will see more of them we will see little differences in personality and powers too.

If they deviate THAT much, then yeah, we'll split. But let's not make assumptions just yet. Yes, half are male and half are female, and one of the guys is taller and more muscular. However, the discussion for now is not whether or not to split the page. We don't have names, and we haven't gotten most of what you're talking about, Levi. The issue is about the page staying or not, and with the precedent established by the Medaka Quintuplets, I say keep it. 02:40, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

So this discussion comes down to if we get separates names. and if there is difference in personalities, but at the end of the day, they still got a group infobox. Appearance wise, the boys different color hats are only in the anime, and the girls hair might be like Mozu and Kiwi, who still have one page. Even if we do get the names and they have different personalities, why should this page be deleted and remain like other group pages? Rhavkin (talk) 06:52, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

I still think that this is not a group at all because that's not what the infobox was trying to say (and I wouldn't mind to separate and delete the medaka page either if we want to be consistent), but since it seems I'm in the minority, that's fine. However if the criteria to separate is having different sections, then this page has to be separeted eventually, because the are bound to be differences for every section and just imagine listing this differences for 10 different characters each character. Last chapter was also literally the first time we saw them together, so the history is already very different.

Levi is right about that actually. It was not an infobox introduction. SeaTerror (talk) 17:21, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

How about we just wait until we get something on them before separating this article. It probably wouldn't be much different from differentiating Joscarpone from Mascarpone, or something, right?Observer Supreme 17:42, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

In order to separate the characters, we first need their names anyway hence we will probably have to wait a while, probably a sbs or even a databook. The only thing we can decide now is if we should keep it, which it seems it's what the majority wants.

Clear majority to keep the page Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:02, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

Real colors?
https://boards.fireden.net/a/thread/178014147/#178042051

Does anyone know anything about this image, or the other ones posted right before it? The poster claims "Oda played a game with his editor and drew these" but I've never seen them anywhere else. Has anyone ever seen them up on Twitter or APForums or elsewhere? 66.87.125.157 22:45, September 30, 2018 (UTC)

They were created by a twitter user, not Oda. They're formatted as letters to the SBS. 12:49, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Charlotte Newsan/Newshi's Voice Actor
Although the credits of Episode 869 name Kasuya Yūta as Charlotte Newsan's voice actor, based on the information we now have from One Piece Magazine Vol. 5, it seems that he was voicing Newshi (the tallest brother and user of the Gocha Gocha no Mi). The brother visually identified as Newsan in the magazine never says anything in the episode, whereas Newshi does (with Kasuya's voice, furthermore). They did also misidentify Charlotte Chiboust as the 29th son in the same episode, so I guess the anime team didn't read Oda-sensei's notes clearly enough. 58.89.146.212 07:28, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Split
Once the Whole Cake Island Arc finishes in the anime, I think it might be time to split this page. We have names for all the decuplets, we can tell them apart, and most importantly, some have demonstrated themselves to have unique powers - particularly the one with the Devil Fruit. So there shouldn't be much worry about split articles being stubs. What do you guys think? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:57, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

When it comes to splitting pages I think there should be a byte count before moving forward with a split and when it will come down to pages with low byte counts there should a new policy about splitting a page when it is necessary but for now could we please merge the stubs into new pages on the topic a number are related to I'm already thinking of making pages for Positions and Weapons.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 15:15, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

We have 10 characters named, with age and appearence, there's no reason that justifies keeping them in a single page, so I think we don't even have to wait until the anime ends to split it. Btw, what do you mean by "Positions"? And also, weapons on their own articles are okay. Pau D. Seven (talk) 15:19, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'm not saying the page can't be split up it's just that not all of them will be page worthy and can end up as stubs. BTW, what's that? Not everything can be called an occupation and not every weapon has its own page.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 15:33, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I don't a split is necessary. We have multi-character pages where we can differ among the individuals, and would be longer then one of the Decuplets. Mozu and Kiwi comes to mind, as well as the Unluckies, and we still can't really differ among four of the males. And we need to address the merged figure, as we do not know with sibling were combined.

And Rgilbert. it means "By The Way". Rhavkin (talk) 15:58, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

All ten siblings were in the combined figure. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:00, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

They are "page worthy" since they are named individuals, it's true that we don't have much information about them, but if only little is known it still deserves its own article. Pau D. Seven (talk) 16:05, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

We've also split articles whose subjects have had fewer differences than the decuplets do. Abdullah and Jeet and Moscarpone and Joscarpone come to mind. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:21, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I can assume this counts as an active discussion right? Thank you Rhavkin for BTW and no hard feelings for the past couple of days I hope you will help with my page ideas. There is a stub problem and I'm offering a solution.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 16:30, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'll tell you what Kaido, start in your sandbox and see if there is enough for a page for each of them. As for pages that were split, and those who weren't and future case, is there a rule or a criteria for which are split/merged and which aren't? If not shouldn't there be one instead of reopening this discussion for every multi-character page?

Rg, I was only pissed because you refuse to move the discussion to the right place despite being told several times. I never hold a grudge. Rhavkin (talk) 16:38, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Only split if there's enough information for all articles. The history section for some wouldn't be a lot anyway. If they get split then this should get redirected to the Charlotte Family page. SeaTerror (talk) 17:09, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Split the pages. 17:15, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I have enough trouble without using cuss words and I don't want to be banned. It's hard enough to write and would imagine there be mush mouth when I talk.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 17:16, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Split the pages. As for the "stub problem," it is not a problem for those of us who destub. We can identify them all in each scene using the anime for (a poor but necessary) reference. 17:45, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Even if the anime was consistence with the fifth hat color, we still don't know who wears which hat. Rhavkin (talk) 17:49, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Some don't destub fast enough and when the entry is big enough it can become its own page again or for the first time.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 17:54, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I suggest that we create the pages for every memeber of the decuplets but retain this page since it is noteworthy for them to be in a group since theu can merge and this page title is mentioned in the manga. Rainelz 19:22, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Rhavkin, didn't we already identify who was who? Or are the portraits just wrong?

We should give them all pages and merge this one into the Charlotte Family. 20:18, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'm only basing this on the images from here, so if there was another place in the magazine that identified them is beyond me, but there was no indication on witch son wear which hat, or even if the hats are of different colors or if that is animation choice.

To sum up, as much as I can tell, the images are speculation, and we can't even determinate which siblings were part of the enraged army, which participated in the BMP meeting in Chapter 854, who among them knows Geppo, etc. Rhavkin (talk) 20:34, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Again, even if the articles are super small, we can't have 10 identified individuals without their own page because of... ERROR 404 no logic reason found. Create the pages, redirect this article to Charlotte Family and add all the necessary information there. Pau D. Seven (talk) 01:21, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

Btw Rhavkin, ofc there is more stuff in the magazine, like this. Pau D. Seven (talk) 01:28, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

The anime said the big one was Newsan, contradicting the magazine which said he was Newshi. So if the only physically distinct one was misidentified, how can the anime be trusted on anything for identical ones? Having just a section for each of them is a better option at this stage (and redirect their names to those sections). 45.56.153.137 02:43, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

We agreed to split the Funk Brothers the moment one of them was shown with a Devil Fruit. This should not be an exception in that light, we should split the page. That aside, none of the other scarcely shown twins/triplets/etc. of the Charlotte family are merged together. 06:29, January 26, 2019 (UTC)
 * Except Charlotte Dolce and Dragée, which, in my opinion, should also be split. But we don't know if they have a Devil Fruit or not. Newshi, on the other hand, has a power that makes him different than the rest of the nine. 06:32, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

Maybe make individual pages for the ones we can identify (all of the girls, Newshi, etc.), but keep this page until we can figure out which is Newichi and Newji. Newsan shouldn't be hard to figure out since he (hopefully) will have a rose in his mouth. I think we should keep this page so that Newichi and Newji redirect here until we figure it out. Or we could just wait it out.--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 06:49, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

Again, like I suggested to Kaido, the individual page should be created on a sandbox and we will have a bit more context. Saying a page would be a stub at this point is only an assumption.

Pau D., I don't understand what your trying to show me. That page shows the male with their number, name, the fact that they are a decuplet, and age. How does that help with identification?

Yata, I asked before what were the criteria for splitting, are you saying it's "having a DF"?

Maybe that enough to have a separate page for Newshi, but the rest of the boys are still unidentifiable, and in this case we have to have "all or none" because there really isn't a reason to have a separate page for each girl and Newshi and a merged one for the other four males. In fact, the only identifiable male is Newgo in a single scene because his image in the SBS was taken from the manga (chapter 898, page 8 if that helps). Until we can identify the sons (minus Newshi) by anything other then their hat color, we can't split at all. Rhavkin (talk) 07:05, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

"That page shows the male with their number, name, the fact that they are a decuplet, and age. How does that help with identification?" Obviously that's how. SeaTerror (talk) 07:32, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

If that's help so go ahead and tell me who was in the enrage army, and didn't attend the BMP meeting, and who knows Geppo. Rhavkin (talk) 07:37, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

They can only be individually identified in Chapter 894, which contains the appearances that the magazine portraits are based off (from left to right: Newji, Newgo, Newshi, Newsan, Newichi. Unhelpfully, the anime equivalent of the scene completely changed the layout so it can't be used as a cross-reference, and on top of that removed Newsan's rose and misidentified Newshi as Newsan.

None of that helps with any other of their Chapter / Episode appearances. Trust me, I went through every single chapter of Whole Cake yesterday filling out character tables based on the new names / birth order. If I could have identified the sons beyond saying "The Charlotte Decuplets (Sons)" I would have. For example, two of the sons appear in the enraged army in Chapter 845 - that's six possible combinations for which two they are. 1 in 6 chance of getting the character table right. 45.56.153.135 07:43, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

If it's the images being a problem, then we can use the manga versions based on the magazines to do so, unless the anime shows the proper one. Then another reason is more than the Devil Fruit, is that this page cannot consist of either Male or Female Characters categorization. Like Daddy Dee and Mummy Mee, we split those two. 21:14, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

Yet we kept the Unluckies merged. Rhavkin (talk) 21:17, January 26, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think you've read the comment correctly Yata. Here is a sample history section for each of the four proposed new pages, based on the current page, which illustrates the issue:


 * After Charlotte Cracker was defeated by Monkey D. Luffy, at least two of the male decuplets (one of whom may have been Charlotte Newichi) joined Big Mom's enraged army to take out Luffy and Nami.[1] After the two were captured, one of the decuplets (who may have been Charlotte Newichi) watched as Amande acquired Lola's Vivre Card from Nami.


 * After Charlotte Cracker was defeated by Monkey D. Luffy, at least two of the male decuplets (one of whom may have been Charlotte Newji) joined Big Mom's enraged army to take out Luffy and Nami.[1] After the two were captured, one of the decuplets (who may have been Charlotte Newji) watched as Amande acquired Lola's Vivre Card from Nami.


 * After Charlotte Cracker was defeated by Monkey D. Luffy, at least two of the male decuplets (one of whom may have been Charlotte Newsan) joined Big Mom's enraged army to take out Luffy and Nami.[1] After the two were captured, one of the decuplets (who may have been Charlotte Newsan) watched as Amande acquired Lola's Vivre Card from Nami.


 * After Charlotte Cracker was defeated by Monkey D. Luffy, at least two of the male decuplets (one of whom may have been Charlotte Newgo) joined Big Mom's enraged army to take out Luffy and Nami.[1] After the two were captured, one of the decuplets (who may have been Charlotte Newgo) watched as Amande acquired Lola's Vivre Card from Nami.

I haven't seen a viable alternative. The anime does not provide a consistent point of reference, in part because of issues and errors already stated above.

With respect to Devil Fruit and categorization, that can be solved by having an individual page for Newshi, and a merged page for Newichi, Newji, Newsan and Newgo. It doesn't matter whether the daughters are separate or merged, but they would be five identical pages and on the basis of the Medaka Quintuplets there is precedent to keep them together. 45.56.153.241 01:14, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

Closing this until someone cam differ among the males. Rhavkin (talk) 20:09, January 27, 2019 (UTC)

First of all, you don't get to decide if the discussion is closed or not. Second, it can really be closed since there are 7 for splitting it, 1 that wanna split girls+Newshi and only 3 (2 wiki users + 1 AWC) against it. So the decision is we split it and redirect the page to Charlotte Family. Pau D. Seven (talk) 00:36, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

One one side, I agree with Rhavkin and the AWC. I am not sure about what process can be used to correlate which male decuplet did what. You have specific info like names and birth order, which is all good, but the backbone of an article is its history section, not to mention abilities and powers. I agree with the AWC that Newshi at least should definitely get his own page, given that he's a Devil Fruit user and all and we can easily identify him.

However, I disagree that the anime cannot be trusted at all when it comes to identifying the decuplets. Yes, they have made a few mistakes. But by and large, several Charlottes were first named and identified as family members in the anime, we used those, and in the end were almost completely correct. Not to mention that we do use colors given in the anime when describing and identifying characters unless the manga contradicts it. So if we receive more details from the anime that allow us to tell apart the other four boys, I will support splitting this page. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:26, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Let's be honest, I've joined the discussion late, and had a hard time following the deeper details. I'm still up for splitting this and Charlotte Dolce and Dragée. 01:59, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

"But by and large, several Charlottes were first named and identified as family members in the anime, we used those, and in the end were almost completely correct." - Yes, but the anime staff was given access to Oda's notebooks with all the names / drawings very early on. They don't have access to further information. If we can't identify them from the manga based on the information in Magazines 4 and 5, neither could they. See also Chapter 700 and its talk page - Crocodile hasn't been been added to the Character page there even though the anime made it clear it was him. Aremo Ganmi is another example of the anime not caring about color consistency in minor background characters.

Anyway, I went through the chapters and episodes in which they appear (going by Character tables / lists only). I didn't fully watch the episodes from beginning to end, but it should give enough of a picture:

Enraged Army: Meeting: Tea Party (didn't appear in manga): Flampe's fantasy: Episode 865 (Didn't appear in manga)
 * Chapter 845 (pg 5: two decuplets), 846 (pg 9: two decuplets)
 * Episode 809: Newshi, Red, Yellow, Green (@8:43 and 21:00). Closest equivalent of Ch 845 pg 5 is Red and Yellow (@10:03)
 * Episode 811: Equivalent of Ch 846 pg 9 is Red and Green (@21:30)
 * Chapter 854 (pg 11-12: Newshi and three other decuplets)
 * Episode 822: Newshi, Red, Yellow, Green (@13:26)
 * Episode 830: @22:48, hats are red, green, yellow, another yellow)
 * Episode 831: Green @6:57
 * Episode 833: flashback to Episode 822 meeting
 * Episode 839: @16:32 vs Niji: Newshi, Red, Yellow, Green. Also @22:44 (Newshi + 3, there's a purple filter over the whole thing so can't tell which colors)
 * Episode 841: Newshi, Red, Yellow, Green on ground (@6:14) and in the sky(@6:31)
 * Episode 842: Red + ??? (can't see hat) @10:53. All five (Newshi, Red, Yellow, Green, Blue) @19:33

Cacao Island:
 * Chapter 894, 896, 897, 898, 900
 * Episode 869, 870 (fifth decuplet hat changed to light blue, Newshi misidentified as Newsan in 869, no correlation between equivalent panel in Chapter 894)

I'm not sure whether the light blue hat has appeared at any other stage prior to Episode 869, or whether there are any scenes other than that and Episode 830 in which all five sons appear together. But in any event, there isn't enough information to distinguish them at this point in time, and the anime's running out of episodes in which to make that clear. 45.56.153.240 04:16, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Pau's image made it clear which male is which so they will get split now. SeaTerror (talk) 04:33, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Did it? I can identify every male...in Chapter 894. Not so sure about the chapters afterward. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 04:36, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Just SeaTerror failing basic reading comprehension as usual. All of his comments in this thread can be safely ignored. 45.56.153.241 06:55, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

As I see it, the only way to really identify the males, is if in the anime each will have a different VA, and all have speaking parts, and then retroactively go through all of their appearances and list who's where. Until that happens, the split will result in 6 small pages and four speculative pages.

AWC, the blue hat appeared when the males fought Niji in the anime (non canon), but I don't remember which episode that was. However, it doesn't matter which is which when they all appear. Rhavkin (talk) 08:04, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

I checked Episode 839 again, the fight is at ~16:32 and I've added it to my list above. It's still just Newshi (light purple hat, not light blue) along with Red, Yellow and Green. I agree with you completely otherwise - the reason why I'm bringing this up is that apparently prior to Episode 869 the only time there has been a 'fifth color' is the duplicate yellow hat in 830. So even if we got VA information, it still wouldn't provide certainty on which 'yellow hat' was present in the first enraged army appearance and the meeting. 45.56.153.35 08:40, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

You're right, it was episode 842 @19:33. I remembered something heading their way. we should also include @14:02. Rhavkin (talk) 10:26, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, added 842 @19:33 above. Also, gallery should be either changed to manga or add a note saying it's not confirmed which color is which yet (except Newshi). At the moment it's misleading and speculative. 45.56.153.126 12:28, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

The images are not the topic here. Rhavkin (talk) 17:45, January 28, 2019 (UTC)

Just fix it then. 45.56.153.131 19:42, January 28, 2019 (UTC)