Forum:Pictures of characters after time-skip and before time-skip

Problem:
All the Straw-hats changed after the time-skip and their pictures from before aren't so needed, but since we wouldn't want it to be a spoiler and also to keep us reminded of how they looked before, I believe we should have them both, I don't know, I remember on the Narutopedia that they have both manga and anime images so we could use something similar to show them as they are in the current time, it's allot better than having them like that only in their Galleries since this is how they look now and they looked different before, we can see allot of differences, not only clothes(except for Brook)

Discussion starts here
So what should we do?

Keep them as they are, fans should acknowledge we're a heavy spoiler based site anyway. One-Winged Hawk 10:29, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep them as they are;my opinion too.
 * But this isnt how they look like in the present time, I personally consider it kinda fake information on how the "look" like since it is how they "looked" like, I just said it would be a really good idea to have both images since you agree to them being as they are now, so tha there won't be any disagreement 14:46, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

There is no need to made two profile box if this is what you mean. About the picture in the profile, even though there are already some good colored manga pictures, I think we should wait until the anime get after the time-skip. But I'm ok to use the manga pictures too, but I don't know if we can agree on each of them though.

I don't think he is speaking of 2 independent infoboxes leviathan, but an in-build "switch", like on this article of Narutopedia:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Four-Tails

I think it is a very convenient method, since we don't have to decide on pre or after timeskip images. If it is technically possible to integrate this "switch" to our infoboxs I'm definitely for trying it. We don't have to use it for every article, but the Straw Hat pages can deserve special treatment.

If it sucks we can still remove it. 17:29, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Ah I get it... and yes it's possible and we are already using something similar, Template:Releases in the main page, but more then a pre/post timeskip, then I like more the anime/manga switch (and it will be the same, since the anime isn't at that point yet).

No switch. That was decided against a long time ago. That's the reason Tipota and Kdom left. SeaTerror 17:49, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

@Leviathan

Could you post an Infobox with the switch feature? Just as an example? 17:53, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Never mind you already did. Looks good to me. I think it would be a good way to handle the manga/anime thing as well, tho as a test we could try it with the SH infobox pictures, maybe a one week trial or so. 17:55, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

{{Char box| colorscheme=StrawHatPiratesColors| name=Nico Robin| image={{Sandbox Template3}}| jname=ニコ・ロビン| rname=Niko Robin| ename=Nico Robin| first= Chapter 114; Episode 67| affltion=Straw Hat Pirates;| ocupation=Archaeologist; Pirate; Assassin; Baroque Works Vice President (former)| epithet={| jva=| eva=| extra1=| bounty=| devil fruit=| }} Here you go, this is Robin's infobox (I removed some informations) with the anime picture as default. So it will be something like this.

I think it is great, this way both the present and the past Robin are shown and there should be no complains -- 18:14, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Images_on_the_wiki
 * http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Image_Guidelines
 * http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Toggle_Feature SeaTerror 20:34, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think it is worth a try, at least to show the pre and after timeskip Straw Hats. Robin is a really ugly example tho^^ I don't know what the animators were smoking there (I think her face can not be more distorted) 21:37, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Read the discussions I posted. SeaTerror 19:45, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well I think it is a good idea to use the pre and post timeskip pictures like that since my it was a bit of an inconvenience for me to scroll down looking for the picture. I believe it is easier to recognize the character by using the pre-timeskip picture first. I still think the template example for Robin could use an upgrade, though it is not something that doesn't need to be done right away since part 2 will be animated at some point which is based on how many episodes left before Toei decides to do it whether it be weeks or over a month. -Adv193 06:15, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I want to add that it is technically possible to use another way of displaying the 2 images, without actively clicking on something. An example of the naruto wiki:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/String_Bean_Binding_Illusion

I think it is an excellent solution. I don't say we should use it on every picture, but the Straw Hats are special cases and should be handled accordingly. 08:27, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think is necessary to make a pre/post timeskip difference in the infobox, if you want, an anime/manga maybe. And if you think about it, anime/manga now is the same as pre/post timeskip. But since this was decided against, you have to make a "revamp" forum to change that.

Nothing is really necessary Leviathan, we can perfectly continue as we are. Tho it is a valid question what picture we should use for the infobox, which is the most important of the whole article. And people have certainly different opinions when it comes to using pre or after timeskip images. The above methods would achieve a compromise everyone could live with. And the anime/manga thing is a another topic entirely. And concerning the forums Sea Terror linked, 90% of the editors who participated left the wiki ages ago, they don't reflect the current community. So, this forum here is basically an attempt to "revamp" something, but only concerns the infobox pictures of the SH's. But anyway, this is not my forum - I'm just giving my opinion on the matter. 10:40, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yes I understand. I mean I prefer an anime/manga switch over a pre/post timeskip and, as I said, it would achieve the same thing. When the anime will reach the timeskip then I think everybody will be familiar with the new appearance.

Then the subject of the forum should be changed or should a new forum be started regarding an anime/manga switch? リチャー ド  M ornin'!  10:48, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

@Leviathan

Ah, I see. Well...yeah I guess that works too.

@Rici

Just my opinion, the anime/manga switch deserves an own thread, it would be a major change affecting hundreds of articles. 10:58, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Make a new thread then. The old vote is still valid. The vote was against any switch anyway. SeaTerror 19:03, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Since the Pre-Time Skip/Post-Time Skip and Anime/Manga switches would conflict they really should be voted on in the same thread. @SeaTerror, yes the old vote is still valid but only until it is over turned with another vote. Bastian964 14:12, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

i think we should make a pre/after time skip switch, with the after time skip as default, because the anime is already getting to the time skip, and this is how they look in the present. i say we change it right now, because if we're not changing it just because of the anime, than that is not a good enough reason, especially when you already see a picture of them after the time skip, when you Scroll down the page! so when can we vote for this matter?

I'll say again that I don't see the point of using pre/after time skip switch, a manga/anime switch makes more sense maybe. The gallery currently covers both options, but I like the idea to move the manga image in the profile with a switch, and leave the pre-timeskip appearance in the gallery. For voting, well let's wait to settle the raw/scan forum, then we can open a vote for the "switch" feature, so we can decide if use the switch, and for what, there.

if we're not using a switch, than i say we should change the profile to after the time skip. why can't we make a vote right now, without having to wait for the other vote to finish?

Well it's end today anyway, then tomorrow I'll make the forum, so we can vote and discuss this matter. There is also a problem about the characters profile images that I want to bring up, and please sign your posts next time.

Still I would want to include the option to use the switch function for pre/after timeskip. 11:17, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Of course, the vote will start between no swicth/switch (anime-manga)/switch(pre-after timeskip), with room for other suggestions.

sorry for not signing my posts... i'm a new member, so how do i sign my posts?

Don't worry, you sign yourself with four tildes ~ you should find them or a button for the sign in the edit box.

Well an official vote needs to be opened by an admin, I don't want to go and annoy Roa, so I'll go ask him now...82.78.244.213 12:17, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

That's not true... a vote or a forum can be opened by any users.

So how does one implement a vote. Bastian964 14:03, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree with implementing images like narutopedia, but it would be just a copy from other wiki.I prefer another choice to use Time skip images only when anime introduces time skip and manga images is not well to be prefered. 07:17, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Let's Vote
I thought about opening a new forum, but maybe it's simpler create the poll here. Let's vote on the possibility of using a switch in the infoboxes, these are the options emerged so far:

Poll
The restrictions for voting are, unless the community says otherwise, min 300 edits and 3 month on the wiki. The restriction are only for voting, not for the discussion.

The poll will last two weeks, so it will end at the 00:00 am of the 12th August. (if you want to change the duration discuss it, sorry if I chose bad examples). This vote will overtake the decision made in these forum:
 * Forum:Toggle Feature
 * Forum:Images on the wiki
 * Forum:Image Guidelines

Allow the use of a switch-template in the infobox picture?


 * No, use only one picture (either anime, manga, pre or post timeskip) and leave the rest in the gallery section. (current policy)
 * 1) SeaTerror 18:05, July 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) NO WAY!  This was REJECTED previously and for a freakin' good reason; we have the "Appearance" section this voting poll is STUPID and useless and I'm angry this has been brought up when it was rejected after a huge argument last time. 15:56, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) NO WAY!  This was REJECTED previously and for a freakin' good reason; we have the "Appearance" section this voting poll is STUPID and useless and I'm angry this has been brought up when it was rejected after a huge argument last time. 15:56, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, use a switch between a pre and post timeskip image.
 * 04:31, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:56, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 13:39, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 20:07, July 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * 07:20, July 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 06:01, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) --Piece_enrik 12:04, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) Franky103 19:55, August 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, use a switch between a manga and anime version of the character.
 * 02:11, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Bastian964 11:45, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2)  15:35, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  15:35, July 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, use a switch between manga, anime and original appearance (pre-timeskip, if present).


 * Yes, a switch with the between the 4 combination (anime pre/post, manga pre/post). (sorry if it doesn't work well, because it's in conflict with the other switches)


 * Neutral.
 * 1) --Black Leg Sanji 18:14, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Second Poll
In case the votes against the switch function will be the relative majority, but not the absolute one, what will be the final result? (Example: 6 against; 5 for pre/post timeskip; 4 for anime/manga)
 * The option against will win.


 * The switch option with most vote will win. (pre/post timeskip, in the example)


 * There will be a second ballot between the switch options. (in the example, a quick vote between pre/post timeskip and anime/manga)
 * 1) Bastian964 16:11, July 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Bastian964 16:11, July 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Bastian964 16:11, July 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Neutral.

''Note: if you see some display errors in the switch, it's because I used two profiles in the same page. The template is a prototype, so the style can be changed if you like.''

Poll Discussion/Other Suggestions
Feel free to suggest other options. Note this poll doesn't necessary force to use a switch for every characters and we didn't decide yet which picture use as default (it can also be changed through the template case by case). We can also discuss here what picture use as default. See also this Forum:Infobox Pictures. By the way, if you find a better version of "Luffy anime" change it.

i think we shouldn't make an anime/manga switch, because the anime is about to reach the time skip, so the charactes will look the same way, and we won't have a pre time skip image in the profile. if you mean that we should change the image according to the current arc, than that will mean we will have to change the profile constantly. i say we use a pre/after time skip switch, with the after time skip as a default, because this is their current look in the manga and soon in the anime. Strawhat1 06:50, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

can you please clarify on the anime/manga switch? i didn't understand if you meant for a general image or one for the current arc. Strawhat1 12:00, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

For the anime/manga switch, I meant a general image, but if you want to change it every arc, go ahead, but I don't see the point in doing that since we kept the same image of Luffy for how much time? I thought it was more interesting the differences between anime and manga (even when they're both after time-skip), we can leave the pretimeskip look in the gallery, but you can do the same reasoning for the pre/after timeskip. A 4-way switch it's out of question because it will too messy, I think, but if you have other suggestions please say them.

I would like to suggest that the poll be reorganized so that it has a yes/no switching section and a what do you want switching section. This would make so that the poll can't end up with the people who want switching ending up being greater than those for no switching but the switching crowd losing because it is divided. Bastian964 13:39, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

i didn't meant to change the image every arc, i don't think it's a good idea too. as for a general image, i think the anime and manga will look almost the same, so i don't think it's a good idea... i think a general pre/after time skip image will be the best thing to do, because it will show how the charactes looked during the course of the entire series. but i'm not allowed to vote because i'm a new member, so that is just my opinion. Strawhat1 13:50, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I understand what are you saying strawhat1, and you have a point, but there are some little differences between anime and manga, like the colorscheme, for the pre-timeskip look I think is enough to leave it in the gallery. I can try to make a three way switch, like anime/manga/pretimeskip, but I think it will be too much.

This is the 3-way switch, but maybe is too much.

i think it's too much too, but i still don't think we should make an anime/manga switch, because, as you said, there are just little differences. the pre time skip should be in the profile, not just in the gallery because this is how they generally looked for 600 chapters. in the gallery we usually put their looks form a specific arc. so instead of having two images that look almost the same, we can have two different images that cover the entire series. --Strawhat1 16:07, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Could you use another example please? Luffy changed not much, people won't see the argument we are trying to make. Franky would be the best choice....basically everyone except Luffy/Chopper. 16:13, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Jinbe, Chopper actually changed from the way he was at the beginning, just like Usopp, he had a different nose, and now Chopper is drawn to be much cuter than before... 16:33, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

What could be done is that you could have a switch that is dependent upon another switch. So that when an anime/manga switch is set to manga, the post/pre time skip switch would display the post/pre time skip manga pictures. This way the switches wouldn't look so messy because the post/pre time skip ones could be at the bottom and the anime/manga at the top. Bastian964 16:48, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

As for the anime/manga switch, the reason for it is that not only do the manga pictures look better in many people's opinions (just look at the textures and color tones) but the manga is also Oda's original work instead of the work of animators who are often off model. Bastian964 16:48, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

@Bastian: basically you are saying to do a four-way switch: manga (pre/after), anime (pre/after)? I think the three way switch is enough at maximum, ( manga(current)-anime(current)-pretimeskip(whatever source)), hence for characters introduced after the time skip, there will be only the anime/manga options. I added Usopp. So should I add the third options to the poll?

That's still gonna have 4 buttons... so then add a three-way section and a four-way section to the poll. 17:12, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for the bugs in the code, but with so many profiles in the page they will be in conflict with each other. And really, I couldn't find any better pictures for the profiles.

I like how you all blatantly ignored the previous discussions that I linked to. An anime/manga switch should never happen. SeaTerror 18:07, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Are you referring to Forum:Toggle Feature? I linked it in the beginning... and you should vote according to what you think, (as I think you do) not because there was once decided that. If you say here why a switch shouldn't be done, maybe you can convince other users as well, that's will be a great help.

@SeaTerror i'm with you about the anime/manga switch--Strawhat1 20:16, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

No you didn't. I linked 3 separate discussions including that one. SeaTerror 22:20, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

I added them, but I'm curious what's your opinion on this, aside for the old forums.

I'd like to see a Post-Timeskip only choice. To show only their new appearance. 23:18, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

@++LuffyPirateKing++ there is a Post-Timeskip only choice. it's the first choice to leave only one image, anime/manga or pre/post time skip. i guess that if that choice will be picked, than we will have another vote to select witch image we will use. --Strawhat1 04:54, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

i wanted to know - what are we going to do about portrait images? are we going to use the pre or post time skip portraits? Strawhat1 13:38, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Just saying my reasons... I like the anime/manga switch because he can adapt easily to every character. The pre/post timeskip is basically only for the straw hats since a few people change so drastically after the timeskip. For the characters that will be introduced from now on, the pre/after timeskip is useless, (basically half of the characters of the "future" One Piece). A compromise is the 3-way switch... but for now I don't like it so much. Well of course the style of the switch can be changed, for now is a plain text.

@StrawHat1 Yeah im saying to not put a switch, only the new appearance of every character.

And I totally agree with Levi. 14:51, July 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Also remember that there is the second poll...

i think it's important to have a pre/post time skip switch, even if it's just for the straw hats (and maybe for other characters who have shown a change after the two years), because they have changed and it's important to show it in the profile image. for other characters who haven't changed, or for new characters, we can have the anime/manga switch. i think that in this case we can't have one way for all the characters in one piece. it just wouldn't work. --Strawhat1 16:49, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

No switch is needed at all. There is a reason why the gallery section exists. SeaTerror 18:07, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

the gallery usually shows how the characters looked in a specific arc, and the profile shows how they looked in general. we now have two general looks, before and after the time skip, so we need to have a switch to show them both in the profile section. --Strawhat1 18:31, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

You can't have a switch on the template though. SeaTerror 18:52, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean ST? the switch is inside the infobox template...

Exactly, basically instead of giving an image to the infobox you give another template, it's pretty simple. I agree with strawhat1 about the switch, it can also avoid problems like choosing the best image. Well, I'm not particularly eager to have a switch, so if we decide to don't have one, that's fine, we have the gallery anyway.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Straw_Hat_Pirates#Crew_Members That. SeaTerror 20:42, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, has that anything to do with our discussion? Can you explain it better? We aren't gonna put a switch in that template... we are talking only about the infoboxes in the character pages. (btw technically you can put a switch there, basically with the name as trigger). If you are wondering which picture use as default (there is the same problem with the switch) it's a different topic, we need to discuss that as well.

ST was talking about a question i had before about the infobox template. i asked what image are we going to use, pre or post time skip. i didn't suggest to put a switch there, that won't be good. --Strawhat1 23:13, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

I still think that a pre/post timeskip is useful only for the strawhats... think about characters like Hancock, Jinbe and the characters showed so far... very few of them changed significantly, but it's ok even that.

we won't make a pre/post time skip switch for all the characters, only the ones that changed. it won't make sense to put two images that look the same... maybe for those characters we can have a manga/anime switch, or just leave it with one image. i think we should decide on that now, so we will know what will happen when the vot will end. --Strawhat1 20:51, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

There is no need to discuss anything before the vote ends. All we do is decide if we use this function or not, and for what purpose (character appearance change or anime/manga). The details can be discussed later, maybe on a individual case-by-case basis. 20:58, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

@Seaterror: ah, you're right! I didn't think of the simplest solution : )... and in the end we can always discuss case by case if there are problems.

Poll valid?
Guys? Are we suggesting tabbing for images again? This was rejected by MF previously, I know MF is regularly around anymore but can we just stop right here in our tracks. The agreement was that we wouldn't go down this path, one image per infobox. I apologise if this is wrong, I have been without a net acess for a whle so I'm in the discussion late. But I will kick up a stink here if we vote in any form of tabbing for images WITHOUT revoking the previous rejection made by MF. That means we all have to create a topic where we vote in we can use it.

Also for crying out loud! we have a "appearance" section on the pages. You are rendering this section POINTLESS if you just go ahead with what you are doing. Why break what works? One-Winged Hawk 15:53, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not happy.
 * Another post

Now MF is not around the matters back up, toggling was rejected becauxse it goes agains tthe wikia policy of only using images as demostration. When discussed this before it became clear that the toggling feature was being used to make the wikia pretty and NOT for useful information purposes. If we allow this to go ahead, we render "Appearances" useless. That section is suppose to house all things appear wise regarding any character.

There was an agrement we only need the most current image on the infobox, anything more pulls into question if the images are decoration or illustration. Now, with so many chapters ahead in the new looks, all I should be seing is an update on the infobox. Furthermore I'm not happy a mater that brought a lot of anger, agresssion and arguements is being brought in as though nothing happened previously. Before this poll reopens, you MUST revoke MF's rule. that means all staff have to agree to reject in, and toggling alone must be revoted on. You have to overturn the previous rejection by MF before you can revote on allow any form of togging. Guys, do this correctly. Also, there was a REASON for not allowing toggling and I'm not happy about this. I'm not a member of staff but I am a veteran, maybe I don't have a right to step in and do this, but I'd LIKE us to do things correctly. Please vote on toggling in a new topic, all staff members must agree MF's ruling is voided also in the process of the vote in order to render MF's order to not use toggling (toggling for non-image purposes was never rejected as of a note) for images.

This poll will reopen when you guys do things th correct way. Even if the poll ends and toggling is open up again, without first revoking that previous overulng MF did you WON'T be able to actually use it. I hope you guys release thats the problem here. Because using it, even with support of the wikia editors, goes against wikia guidelines and furthermore creates a conflict of our rules and how we work.

When there are conflicts, people can abuse them because they become a form of loophole where no one is quite sure WHAT the rules are. One-Winged Hawk 16:05, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

You know Angel, I thought about undoing your edits. It is so incredibly disrespectful I can't even put it in words. You butt in out of nowhere and close polls where the majority of the editors discussed and voted on. But I wont undo anything (yet). People shall see what you did there. 16:20, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

First, let's provide the discussion for reference: SeaTerror linked these: Are there any others?
 * Forum:Toggle Feature
 * Forum:Images on the wiki
 * Forum:Image Guidelines


 * Ah, maybe I shouldn't have "undone" your edit, but still I simply moved your post to the discussion, nothing more, beside the underling code doesn't work.