Talk:Marines

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Grading history (please do not edit):


 * The article was assessed and graded B on 02/02/07 by Angel Emfrbl. Reason: While it does have a suitable article layout, most of the information is left unreferenced. There are also a number of broken links on the page.

Navy or Marines?
Just to let everybody know, Marines is the proper term, so please do not link ot this page my putting Navy(One Piece), just because thats what the idiots on normal Wikipedia put for Marines instead. Also this is the correct page, please do not go moving it to any "Navy" pages.--Cody2526 06:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Japanese text alongside 'Marine' translates to 'Navy'... 'Marine' is just another way of saying 'Navy' so its Navy reguardless... But to avoid arguments, I don't want to go futher. (read the page itself).  Oda just wrote it in a way that made Navy open to more languages, its not the first time he has used another language 'Krieg' in Don Krieg's name is German for war. One-Winged Hawk 21:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As I have said before, Navy is the most literal translation, likely because it operates as a foreign Navy would, and their name is the Marines. Cody2526 00:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi evverbody! I moved the page because Oda writes it as "Kaigun", which is "Navy". I have seen "marine", but never the plural "Marines". Look for me around the site, adding images and getting rid of Wikipedia-like phrases. Oh, and try to guess what my name is a reference to. Rodtheanimegod4ever 00:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, I say we propose a vote on what this article's name should be, as I'm through being a nuisance. Put youn name down under a vote, and, if possible, give a short explanation Rodtheanimegod4ever 16:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

While Navy is the more direct Japanese -> English translation, Marine isn't really 100% incorrect. If this was wikipedia I'd go for Navy because they demand the direct translations there then anything (so the article is Navy... Full Stop!). Marine is just another languages way of saying 'Navy' is a more indirect way of saying 'Navy' therefore, because instead of taking one step from Japanese to get the english equallient of Navy you are taking two. One-Winged Hawk 22:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Navy
Rodtheanimegod4ever 16:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC):As Oda writes it as "Kaigun", I'm inclined to believe he means "Navy". Maybe it'll be asked in an SBS some day....

Marines

 * Marines is just another way of saying 'Navy' (German + French), so when you say 'Marine' you are still saying 'Navy'. To back this up, Oda uses other languages (not just English!) in his manga, such as Don Krieg's name (Krieg means German for War) and Robin's attacks.  One-Winged Hawk 22:42, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Here is the text I got from AP.net that supports use of "Marine"

"However, Arlong Park has chosen to use Marine as our official translation of "海軍" for a number of reasons:

"Marine" is displayed throughout the manga and anime. "Marine" and its variants are much more common to foreign languages. "Marine" is not an incorrect description of what the kaigun are. "Marine" is not simply a case of Engrish, as its repetition demonstrates.

In Oda's world of One Piece, the "海軍" are called "Marines", so that is what we've chosen to call them as well."

Which I agree so AP.net keeps it so shall we.

Joekido


 * Psst! Joekido... Using another non-wikipedia/Wikia related site here as a back-up for our arguments... Won't help our cause!  ^-^' One-Winged Hawk 00:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

While Navy is the direct translation of kaigun and such, it's often not exactly a term most fans, that I know of, use. The main reason being the large letters adorned on the officers' uniforms and flags which to a common English speaker suggests that they are called Marines. I mean wouldn't anyone think they're called Marines especially if they don't know Japanese and only have those bold letters to source from. Also there is a bit of a negative connection often associated with the word Navy due to a certain dubbing company. The company and the terms that it uses causes alot of problems on wikipedia. This wikia is intended to stray as far away from those problems. In other words, we should'nt use terms that might suggest that company otherwise there will be more people complaining than helping. Bottom line, Navy is less common and causes more problems especially in a One Piece dominated site.Mugiwara Franky 00:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Compromise
Use "Navy" for organization and "Marines" for members, as VIZ manga does


 * No, fan based; not Viz based. 90% of fans call them the Marines, so we do to. Viz can be as flawed as $kids sometimes. Nemutai! (Justyn 09:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC))

So, if 90% of fans called Luffy Happy Prancing Straw Hat Funny Man, we would, too? That's muy rediculoso. It says on this very page that Marines is a misnomer, used primarily by non-Japanese speaking fans who dislike the dub. Apparently this is the majority of the Japanese version's fans. Search me. I would also appreciate you not criticizing Viz, as it is a very accurate source. Only the names have been changed, and it seems to be the general consensus that people overreact to those as opposed to cutting out three entire arcs just to reach a cute reindeer that they could make plushies out of faster. Excelsior! Rodtheanimegod4ever 03:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to agree on that notion. We shouldn't use the populaur fan based names, it goes back to our Dracule/Juraquille argument elsewhere. Trouble is unlike that there is two words in this case to confuse us all.  But as I said before "Marine" means Navy in two different languages, the Japanese text means Navy also.  Calling them "Marines" is not completely wrong, your just saying a long route to mean Navy.  And I will keep saying that, because everyone seems to forget that when they write a reply to this argument.  One-Winged Hawk 08:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

...My opinion, in short form: This site is currently not using anything from the dub/English manga as opinion, so doing something like Viz does isn't acceptable. Going by fan names is only acceptable if there's no other way to judge. What I believe (and what other people seem to, judging by our use of the spelling "Bon Kurei" for Bon-chan's name), is that Oda-sensei's names/romanizations are the first thing to go by (unless there's reason to doubt them, but in this case there isn't.) I, frankly, don't care what the kanji mean, I don't care what "marine" means, I don't care what "navy" means, I don't care if it's confusing to people (no, I'm not uncaring, I just am tired of this debate/argument in all the forms I've seen it various places. -_-). If it wasn't written anywhere and people were still trying to insist on writing it as "Marine", then yes, I would insist on making it be "Navy"; but that isn't the case. The author himself writes it as "Marine", that's all that should matter to this whole... thing.

((Sorry if I offended anybody/got too rude/anything like that, I've got a bad headache, which seems even worse because it's Christmas... T_T )) --Murasaki 09:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Normally its spoken as Navy though in reference to the manga + anime. The fact both the Kanji + Marines on the same place is whats causing this confusion.  The Japanese means = Navy and the Marine means = Navy in this case.  Oda has just both terms over and over and over.


 * Speaking of over and over... This is where our debate is going now. Over and over.  We better end since soon, or we'll end up as bad as wikipedia where no argument is over in one set debate.  :/ One-Winged Hawk 22:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry
Want I wanted to do was write out what each rank was and list those carrying that rank... I removed the info on individuals and gave them their own page to do this.

At some point... I lost some of the ranks. ^-^'


 * Ahem*...

I'll sort this out tomarrow and repair that. Very sorry, my first big mistake. I'm trying to get character pages set up so we can expand on them which is why they were moved in the first place. We can then expand a lot more freely after that. One-Winged Hawk 21:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Zatsuyō
I noticed that the name "Chore Boy" is used as a translation of Zatsuyō, this is an incorrect translation; the proper translation of Zatsuyō would be "various tasks". I will change it unless anyone dissagrees, it's the same thing with "Kairiki Destroyers". (Justyn 00:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC))
 * Maybe we can think of something else. I know that chore boy isn't an accurate translation, but "odd jobs" or some other equivelant doesn't sound appropriate in this case. After all, we're describing a position they hold, not just what they do... --Murasaki 03:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should just use Chore boy instead. It conveys the same idea as odd jobs anyway. Besides it maybe hypocritical if we defend Marines which is not exactly equivalent to kaigun in literal translation and not defend chore boy which is in the same leauge in literal translation. Besides I think more people call them Chore boys commonly in this case.Mugiwara Franky 00:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Commodore?
...Why is it listed as commodore here? That's the British use of junshou from what I can tell, yet all the others use the American one... American would have shoushou as "Rear Admiral Upper Half", while junshou would be "Rear Admiral Lower Half"... so why are we using commodore for this rank, while using the American ranks for most others? --Murasaki 03:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no idea... From what I gather, thats what its ALWAYS been like. Some of the so-called 'American' ranks are actually used by the Brittish ranks too... In the end, I don't suppose it matters does it? Perhaps Commodore/Rear Admiral Upper Half.


 * Personnelly, I'd like it to say as Commodore - I can barely spell admiral without all that junk around the word...


 * But my spelling is poor at times anyway! XD One-Winged Hawk 00:11, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Commodore's fine to me, it has a better ring to it, it just confused me. XD And it made the corresponding rank sound funny (we have an upper half without a lower half... XD), but we could always just use the British term for that as well, since we don't have anyone using the rank yet. XD --Murasaki 00:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Page locked
Can we perhaps unlock this page for a day or two... I want to add links to a couple of pages. Moral Justice and Absolute Justice in the Justice section. One-Winged Hawk 16:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to have it unlocked, we need to add Smoker and Tashigi to their new ranks... --Murasaki 11:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Page is set so that REGISTERED users can edit. (Justyn 06:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC))
 * I couldn't edit it last time I tried to edit this page. I know that much.  Seems fine now though.  Might have been something else then, like a site update preventing me from doing so.  All I know is it didn't want to let me edit.  One-Winged Hawk 07:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)