Talk:Bartholomew Kuma

Dead Characters?
Shouldn't he be placed under the category Dead Characters? His body is still moving, but he's a robot now, he is no longer alive.

I really don't want to get into a debate on what it means to be alive. The way I see it, he still has a pulse, so he ain't dead yet. 17:26, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

How do you even know he has a pulse? He's like 90% robot, they could easily have removed his heart. The fact that he doesn't have a mind of his own basically means he is brain-dead, which is the same as dead.

He's still walking and active in the world, people still identify him as Kuma, and he's not a zombie. That's good enough for me to consider him totally alive. 17:44, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. For all we know he was just labotomized. If he's walking around and not a zombie, that's enough to call him alive. 17:51, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

I believe until 'his body is alive' we should not consider him dead. 19:00, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

He has been called 'dead' by several characters, even he himself said they wont be seeing each other anymore, and just because he's walking doesn't make him alive since he's a robot.

They meant dead in a figurative sense, since his old personality was no more. If you go by that, then half the straw hats were dead for a few chapters when Law switched their bodies. 19:09, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

^ thats a completely invalid argument, since those half of the strawhats still had consciousness, just in different bodies.

We will consider him dead when his body gets destroyed. 19:13, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Kuma is mostly dead, but that doesn't mean he's all dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. 16:56, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

^He is about as alive as an organ doner corpse that's hooked up to a heart-lung machine and is waiting for organ extraction. Probably even less alive, since most of his body is machine also. Just because the cells in your body are alive, doesnt mean you are 'alive'. You are dead if you no longer have a consciousness.

Look we're not going to have some medical ethical debate on a cartoon encyclopedia. It's ultimately better to keep it simple by saying he's still alive. 14:11, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

Hey, everyone. Chose quite the topic for my 1st outloud opinion on the fandom, it seems. My view on the subject is as follows: When a DF user dies, the fruit would reincarnate somewhere(on the grand line if I'm not wrong), and if its user/powers made a big name for themselves, each and every person would use any means necessary to obtain it(Mera-Mera no mi and Yami-Yami no mi acquisition stories, anyone?). As such, if Kuma actually dies and becomes an entirely robotic being, his terribly infamous DF would surely reappear and be sought after via even nastier methods than with the aforementioned fruits, especially with Doflamingo out of the picture. All aside, I'm thinking Kuma has planned a "reawakening" of sorts in advance like the master of deception he is. Dratinimaster (talk) 08:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, at this point I don't think that Kuma should be considered alive. It was ambiguous for a while since we didn't really have a full picture with what was going on with him, but the way Bonney and Vegapunk describe him throughout Egghead make it very clear that Kuma is regarded as dead in-universe. Vegapunk explicitly tells Bonney that there's no way to bring him back. Vegapunk says he had a lot of moral reservations about what he did to Kuma and that he really didn't want to go through with it, which would not be the case if there was some secret scheme that could have saved Kuma's life. Kuma removed his own memories before he was fully turned into a robot, which shows that he didn't think there would be any need for him to have them going forward. Bonney when she's trying to take on Kuma's memory says that she needs to do this so that she can move on. There's a lot we still don't know about Kuma right now, but in-universe he is unambiguously regarded as dead. His body is still "alive" but for all intents and purposes, Kuma is gone

Infobox
If Vergo's infobox is using Donquixote Pirate colors instead of Marine colors then why isn't this page using Revolutionary Army colors? Donquixote and Revolutionary are their real loyalties, while Marines/Shichibukai are just fronts. So why the real affliation for Vergo but the fake one for Kuma? 96.253.11.153 15:53, December 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S. Thanks for reverting an obviously non-malicious edit without explainig why. Editors like you are why people just make fun of the errors on this wiki instead of trying to fix them.

He doesn't have his personality any more (he attacked Ivankov during the war), so with the information we have at the moment Shichbukai colours are most appropriate. Vergo actually attacked Marines, did Doflamingo's work for him, covered up the incidents at sea etc, whereas the don't have any evidence of Kuma doing Revolutionary stuff since his "death". 16:06, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

Which Brother?
This is something that hit me as I watched the English Dub of Thriller Bark—do we really know that Kuma didn't know about Sabo? This article later brings up that he made no reaction to the reveal of Ace's relation back at Marineford, but at the time he had finally lost his personality. So would it be reasonable to link both as a subtle forshadowing? Either way I'm more happy for finding it, but it'd make sense to put it up. 137.150.222.154 00:32, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Kuma may have not cared. I don't even know if we should do that

Joekido (talk) 00:37, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Eh, no biggie; 'Twas only a suggestion within my own realization. Considering the spoilerific nature, I'd almost say just having the dubious nature of his comment being noted in Trivia versus in his specific comment. He is there when Sabo is picked up, I see no reason why he wouldn't know about either of them.

The only way it'd get confirmed would be if someone asked Oda via SBS, or if Nami puts the pieces together once she hears about Sabo. *shrug* More importantly, thanks for the speedy response! 137.150.222.154 00:48, April 19, 2015 (UTC)

Neither Brother
After going through the page again (and the specific additions of brother—successfully attempted or not), if we can't say for sure that he was referring to Sabo, then we definitely can't say Ace either. Thus far Kuma has had no contact with Ace to our knowledge, whereas Kuma met Sabo as a child and is more likely to know of Sabo as Luffy's brother than Ace.

More importantly, the source-adding of the third link above (compared to the former two made closer to the original comment during Thriller Bark, and the latter one being speculative and eventually removed) does not predate the source of Doflamingo revealing Kuma to be effectively 'dead' during the War (specific link incoming, but copying the text of the modern Source [2] and searching for it in the 3rd link does find it). Therefore, the reason he wouldn't say anything isn't that he already knows, but because even if he was surprised he simply couldn't.

Therefore, there isn't conclusive evidence either way, and thus overall the page should be changed to reflect that (AKA the removing the link to Ace's page from asking if Luffy had a brother, correction of his Relationship pages, etc). 137.150.222.154 06:16, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE—Not only is it old, but apparently its even older because it sat with bad grammar until December 2009 so, yeah... Massively predates the tacked-on source that makes no sense in combination. 137.150.222.154 03:22, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Post Timeskip image
Is there a need for one now that Kuma has returned to his pre timeskip appearance? Sarutobii2 (talk) 09:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Kuma's age
Something had been bugging me for awhile after seeing Kuma with Bonney as a kid and seeing Kuma at age 25 Kuma at age 25 seems to have his glass-like eyes, yet Kuma holding Bonney lacks those eyes...yet Bonney was born when Kuma was 23 years old, 2 years before he joined the revolutionary army...meaning that young bonney with young kuma is after Kuma joined the revolutionary army, but then why are his eyes different? XXMension04Xx (talk) 16:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)