File talk:Luffy Breaks Caesar's Face.png

Anime vs. Manga
In this case, the anime image is "after" the punch, while the manga image shows the full impact and is "during" the punch. Manga's very legible in the thumbnail, so can't see a reason to use anime (especially with that weird electricity effect). This isn't meant to be seen not in motion. 14:54, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I find the anime image perfectly fine. 15:00, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

The anime image looks good. The "electricity effect" is the impact, I don't know why you would find that weird. 15:03, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Staw, I want full on analysis from you. Give me 100 words or more please!

It's not the same though Kage. In the manga image, you get the feeling that Caesar is actually being hit. The electric effect in the anime is showing the "aftermath" of the punch, and not the punch in motion. As I said, anime images like this are not meant to be seen in still image form (gif would be great, but we do not allow those for non-ability images), while the manga is drawn to illustrate motion (which is what these action images should display, an actual impactful punch to his face.) 15:09, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Galaxy, you are being much too strict on staw just to get the manga version. We aren't here to write persuasive essays nor has there been a written requirement for talk pages; we are here to discuss images to use in a reasonable, non-bias manner.

The anime is perfect to be used in this case though. It has all the detail of the manga version and was drawn exceptionally well this time. The anime version shows the passion, the power and the force behind Luffy breaking Ceasar’s face with a haki-induced punch. We can see all of the same detail in this version just as the anime did. We can see the detail in his broken face, the blood, the even the electricity sparks from the impact. To be more accurate to what you previously said, the electric shock is basically the same as the manga; they both show the impact from the punch after it was delivered. The only real difference of the shock is the manga has a little bigger shock effect. Not that it really matters. Aside from that the detail was perfect for the dramatic, action-packed scene here. We can see Luffy’s rage, Ceasar in pain and shocked at his actions. This image has everything required that the wiki standards live up to. This scene has no major animation goofs; the angle is correct from the original version and overall looks great and suits perfectly. Essentially both images are the same.

The paragraph above has 200 words by the way. AsuraDrago 16:00, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Staw posting things such as "it's fine", does not help lead to a decision, and should not be allowed on talk pages. It's just like not contributing at all.

You make semi-fair points, but all of them are counterparts of what I said. Saying the opposite of what I said simply isn't analysis.

The detail is much less honestly. Caesar's face is much less dented, and the black mark on his face simply is not present (which is an important mark left from the punch). The sparks are the "aftermath" of the impact, as I said. The scene is not meant to be seen in a still image form in the anime, because they made it with the intention of it being in motion. The manga is illustrated in such a way that you get the feeling that the punch is happening at that time. The impact circles are larger, more emphasized, and more central to the "breaking" of his face than the anime version.

Yes, you can see the rage, you can see "pain", but you are not looking at the actual impact of the punch, nor are the details on Caesar's face as "fine-lined" as the manga version.

Another flaw I just noticed is that the Haki on Luffy's arm is supposed to be wearing off at that point, and the anime keeps the haki arm intact. Essentially, yes, they're quite similar, but a close investigation (opening the image in two tabs), will show that there are quite a few details and principles that differ between the two.

Anyways, if this talk page somehow ends up deciding on manga, we must upload the anime image as a separate image to put on the Episode page, where it definitely belongs. 16:18, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Manga adds nothing to this image. Anime adds color. It's as simple as that. There have been many cases where I think the differences between anime and manga are significant. This is not one of them. I hate to say it Gal, but I find your argument for this image flimsy at best.

The "timing" of the punch means nothing. Sure, you may think that the details of that matter, but the pages the image is used on make no such distinctions. And they don't have to make those distinctions either because they are insignificant to the article. What need to see is Caesar getting his faced punched, and the anime accomplishes just that purpose. It does not need show the minute details of Caesar's face being "broken": You're attaching value to the exact wording of the file name for this image, when in reality it could be renamed "Luffy punches Caesar" and be totally fine.

I know you hate it when people say "anime's fine" as a reason but this time it's really true. 19:22, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I find the manga to be of a higher quality and it is better. 19:27, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

JSD, color relatively adds nothing when detail is lost because of it. We should not settle on something of lesser detail just because it's in color. The thumbnail on the page with the manga image is very legible, and is also more beneficial due to focusing just on the attack, without any background, unlike the anime which has a background (making the punch less of a focus).

I know the anime accomplishes the purpose, but the manga accomplishes the purpose better. 19:56, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

The anime hit effect is awful, it's just a yellow star effect, not detailed at all. Caesar's face doesn't have the same bent-in shape of Luffy's fist. The hit effect in the anime lacks that middle thing which is supposed to be the from the jet punch because he was actually in gear second which you can see from the smoke behind him, which isn't in the anime either. Also lack of sweat/tears/droplets on Caesar's face in the anime. Many things missing. I prefer manga

And none of those details you've mentioned are visible in the thumbnail version of the manga. In the anime version thumbnail, you have a much easier time seeing that Luffy is actually Luffy and that Haki is being used, thanks to color. All the major details are more visible in the anime image, so the minor details (and minor details of the major details) being more visible doesn't matter as much. In the articles, the anime should be used. 23:33, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

But the point being is that the anime adds great detail to this like the original scene. if this were a case where there was a major animation goof or another weird angle being used i would prefer the manga, but in this case the scene was animated great. you can't stay focused on minor details, the anime can improve things at certain times. this image is one of them. generally this scene was well recieved while going around online, everyone was happy to see it turn out so good. AsuraDrago 05:41, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Bump 11:58, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

The anime image has good quality and color. Although, the manga image has better detail, the detail of the anime image isn't that bad. 12:20, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

There really isn't any reason not to use the anime version, its shows everything we need to see. despite what some may think, this really is a situation where saying "its fine" sums up the issue. AsuraDrago 22:36, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Anime is the better choice, its color, the detail mimics the manga greatly. the haki is still intact, it was never wearing off to begin with. Trafalgar-Law440 (talk) 23:28, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Please don't try and make sockpuppets to campaign for your interests. It's obvious that's you (same way of talking on the chat, logging in and out at the same time, same way of uploading images, etc). 23:48, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Regardless, the extra details of the manga version are not visible in thumbnail form. The anime is best here. 02:23, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

I see them in the thumbnail. They're there. 02:40, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

I uploaded a bad (from the Funi simulcast) image from 616 that actually has more detail and doesn't have the yellow impact. I believe a HQ version of that would be best. 05:09, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I like the one you uploaded, JSD. 06:24, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Impact is very important, so that's not a very good image. 11:59, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

The impact isn't important. Caesar's face is bruised with the shape of Luffy's fist, there's blood spurting from his mouth, he's reeling back in pain, and Luffy has a haki imbued fist that looks as though he's just followed through on a punch. I don't need an impact mark or a gif to figure out that Luffy has just punched Caesar. And it's not as though this image is used in the context of showing a technique or anything, it's merely used on an arc summary and Caesar's history sections. The impact does not matter for those pages. Are you done stretching for reasons to use the manga yet? 14:26, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Impact is important because the description of the image changes without the impact. That's after the punch. Nobody's stretching anything. This is a discussion. My choice remains unchanged.

There's also no clear majority, so prepare a poll. 14:38, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Alright, I've made up a poll. No start date though, since we need an HQ version of the 616 image first. 15:27, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Both anime versions need to be different options on the poll. They're different. '

I'll get the HQ 616 image when I get home. 16:12, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with Gal, both anime images should be on the poll. 17:20, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Both are on the poll now. 21:14, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
--	AsuraDrago 05:38, October 20, 2013 (UTC)