Forum:Fruit Diamond Jozu why do people say it is paramecia?

Why do people say it is a paramecia fruit?

I also read the wikia about it: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Jozu

The arguments they use aren't very solid. They say he is not a logia type use mainly because:

1. He hasn't been seen producing diamonds outside the perimiter of his body.

2. His severed arm was not reformed in the funeral episode.

This arguments are not solid because we might not have seen everything yet. Oda might wanted to keep things secret and not reveal every move. Just like we didn't see anyone, besides luffy, using conquerers haki. To be honest we didn't see a lot of haki at all during the big war episodes. So other things, like jozu transforming things into diamond, might not have been shown so that it can be saved for other episodes.

Also aokiji in the movie didn't have his arm reformed all the time. Only when he went out the bath he reformed his arm and he did not reform his leg at all. He made an ice leg to replace it but it did not turn into a real leg. So either Jozu didn't reform his arm because he chose (yet) not to or maybe did not regained his strength yet to do so. Or in some cases or with some logias it is impossible to reform limbs when they are severed when someone uses haki or cuts it off (using other logia fruit or whatever) before the user had chance to transform it.

It sounds way more logic than it being a paramecia because then it would be first paramecia that allows user to transform his body into his fruit willingly. One of the main things that divides logia and paramecia is that paramecia can't transform their body: look at luffy he is permantely rubber! So Jozu should be diamond all the time.

I think it way more logic that this is a logia fruit that can't reform body parts or maybe not even transform other things into diamond or produce diamonds outside his body than that it is a paramecia fruit that lets user transform body parts and not permantly being a diamond. And like I said we don't know if Jozu indeed can't transform things into diamonds or that he can't reform his arm or even for that matter can't transform it because someone used haki. Aokiji probably can't reform his leg bcs of the super powerful fruit or haki of akainu?

Still even if we find out that he idd can't transform or produce diamonds outside his body perimiter I still think the fact that he can transform himself willingly makes him a logia user?

PS little question, how did jozu loose his arm and which episode do you see it happen?Superawfull (talk) 18:03, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

If you have questions about an article in particular you should use its talk page. Anyway, there is another argument in favour of the paramecia theory: turning the body in the element also allow the user to change shape, something that Jozu never shown. Beside, I can use all your arguments to say the Supa Supa no Mi is a logia fruit, which is not.

And there you are wrong :p

You can't use my arguments to say Supa Supa no Mi is a logia fruit. Because the body of Nr. 1 is made of steel the entire time. He can't change back to normall. You saw also in the fight against zoro that zoro couldn't cut anything at beginning. His entire body was iron without him having to turn it into iron first. So you didn't see Nr. 1 changing his body before zoro hit it and see steel appear on places on his body.

The only thing that he can do is transform parts of his body into blades. Blades aren't an 'element' so being able to transform those doesn't make it logia. He just uses his steel body to alter shape of his body and make blades just like luffy alters shape of his body with his rubber.

Even it was stated once: 'The user's body also has become completely steel in composition, similar to how the Gomu Gomu no Mi turns the user to rubber'.

I can see how you can debate things here, but I rather want someone to answer who knows about this topic and especially someone when he gives his opinion thinks better before dismissing someone elses opinion and arguments as false.Superawfull (talk) 21:49, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

what is this ? Mr.5 can turn his body into bomb anytime and he can return his body, Mr.5 isn't Logia. Logia users can control the elements outside from their body like Crocodile taking advantage in the desert, while Jozu can't use diamonds as he wish. Brain.Y.Z (talk) 22:02, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Kalifa, Galdino, and Magellan are all paramecia users in the same way Jozu is. Their bodies can't become bubbles, wax, and poison respectively, they can merely produce it and bend it to their will. Jozu's a paramecia, and this is now maybe the 3rd or 4th time we've been through this. Sorry to kill your fanboy dreams, but that's just the way things work. 22:13, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

@Brain

Well yeah but a bomb is not an 'element' like steel, rubber, sand or diamond. Secondly mr. 5 power is paramecia because he can not turn his entire body into a bomb. Only things that he disattaches from his body. Same with mr 3.

It was stated that what makes a logia a logia is that a logia can transform into an element and back. That is the main rule, the other rules like being able to change shape or manipulate surroundings are not final and not officialy confirmed as far as I know. And of course there is a grey area but because Jozu fits the main rule he is more logia than all the other examples that have been given. Superawfull (talk) 22:17, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

@ dance

And that where you are making mistake. You even contradict yourself:

galdino and kalifa are paracemecia just like mr 5. because they can only transform parts of their body. And Mangellan is paramecia because he is poison completely and can't turn back. Magellan can produce poison, can bend it as his will but he not logia because of the final rule: he is poison all the time. His body is entirely poison and it cant turn back.

Jozu can turn back and can turn at will.

Plz know your stuff before being so condescending. XD Saying mangellan can only transform parts of his body is just ridicilous. It even stated that he is completely poison just like luffy is completely rubber but that they are paramecia bcs they cant turn back.Superawfull (talk) 22:21, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

But thank you for reminding me of magellan. That strengthens my arguments even more in saying that the main rule between logia and paramecia is the ability to change at will. So also levethian, it not important that someone can change shape. Magellan could change shape and produce outside his body. But bcs he was always poision he is parameciaSuperawfull (talk) 22:25, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Jozu isn't logia because logia can't be solid.

/thread --My moral standing is lying down (talk) 22:26, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Aokiji. Anyway, Mr. 5 turned his arm into a bomb. Logias are able to reform their bodies when broken. Jozu does not fulfill this because he did not recover his arm after it was amputated. If he can't do what a basic logia can do, then guess what, he's not a logia. Your arguments are like your username. 22:28, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

What about Ice it is logia? Aokiji. So you wrong there. @mymoral

He could not turn his complete body. Only parts. Like mr 3. Therefore mr 5 is paramecia.

Well you just said aokiji is logia, we all agree on that! And even he couldn't reform leg back. Only could create ice replacement but not turn it back into flesh.

You should read my first comment, I completely annihilate the assumption that Jozu is paramecia bcs he cann not reform arm. (i will give 1 of the possible arguments: if someone uses haki when cutting of a limb. It cannot be reformed back)

Secondly it is more likely that Jozu is an exception in that he cannot reform back his arm then the exception that he is the only paramecia to break the golden rule: change willingly into elements.Superawfull (talk) 22:33, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't transform, he encases himself. 22:39, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Interesting theory. But that is not known. So we can't say before that if he is paramecia or logia. Also it looks more like transforming and he can't be frozen when he is fully diamond. If it was just encasement he would have frozen easily bcs diamond conducts heat super fast. But bcs he is fully diamond he cannot be frozen. Only when he wasn't completely diamond, aokiji was able to freeze him. Superawfull (talk) 22:47, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Jozu isn't a logia because he can't reassemble his body. My moral standing is lying down (talk) 23:01, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'd have to agree that it would seem more logical to me if Jozu was classified as a logia user. The main argument against it seems to be him not being able to regenerate lims or reassemble his body, but as stated above, Aokiji (definitely a logia user) couldn't regenerate his limb either. In other words, Jozu might be able to reassemble his body, but he could have lost his arm in a similar way Aokiji lost his leg, preventing him from reassembling it. We just don't have the information.

It could be that Jozu is a paramecia, and that Oda is just leaving out information about Jozu. But with the information we have now, it seems folly to just assume he is a paramecia rather than logia.Dice4 (talk) 23:15, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

We thought he was a logia user at first, because in the original manga he was seen at Whitebeard's gravesite with his arm attached. However, in the volumes (where errors in the manga are corrected, ex Zoro's bounty poster), his arm is not attached. 23:19, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

@DancePowder

Can you explain how his arm not being attached proves with definity that Jozu is a paramecia? By that logic, Aokiji who is missing one leg is also a paramecia user.Dice4 (talk) 23:35, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

If Oda wanted him to be a Logia, why not reattach the arm? Keep in mind, this is before Rayleigh's big haki explanation. The way I see it, we're supposed to think about it based on what we knew at the time, not what we know now. 08:21, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

@dance

Still think at this point it is more likely to think that he is logia. Of course we cannot be certain and he could be paramecia. But from the information we have now it is more likely that he is a logia. Especially like I stated he fits logia according to the main rule that divides paramecia and logia (transfer willingly into element, things luffy, Mr 1 and Mangellan can't) and because the exceptions that are now applying to him are less severe when you consider him a logia user.

But like I said we cannot be sure. It is speculation but I just want to state that on the wikia of Joze we cannot say he is paramecia and use the arguments they use there. They are very weak arguments at best and it just speculation. And for now it is more logical that he is Logia user, so you should state that he might be Logia or even better that we don't know yet.

And as for the matter that we should think and reason on the knowledge we had at the time, is certainly not oda's style. Oda thinks ahead and thinks thing through very well. He is known to use certain aspects and introduce them while explaining them or using them to the fullest way later in the story.

Especially when it comes to haki, we have seen it very early in the anime and only recently we come to grasp it.

So i have to agree with dice on this matter.Superawfull (talk) 12:23, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

What I believe happened to Aokiji's leg is that it had been burnt off by Haki, which destroyed the flesh and bone in that area, making him unable to create a 'regrow' his limb with his Logia power. That could have happened to Jozu as well.

Because normally, their bodies would turn into their respective elements when attacked, except when they're attacked with haki, making their physical bodies receive the impact. Also, I'm pretty sure Oda wouldn't 'waste' a great element such as diamond by making it a paremecia fruit. 12:43, August 12, 2013 (UTC)