File talk:Koby Portrait.png

"If Oda Draws it, it's Canon"
Because he's never drawn non-canon stuff before. 17:19, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

These are canon characters with new designs. This is NOT the same thing. 21:24, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

They are non-canon appearances with new designs. They are. 21:27, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

And by the way, about the "drawn in SBS" thing, no it wasn't. It was drawn inbetween the SBS after a chapter, just like Oda did with other sketches and concept arts in early volumes. By your logic, Ganzack is canon. 21:30, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

Nada. These are canon characters receiving post time skip designs by Oda himself. These are not original characters. 21:22, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

These are non-canon appearances. It doesn't matter if it's drawn by Oda or not. A non-canon appearance is a non-canon appearance. Until Oda gives his input that Z is a canonical film, characters are not updated. 00:31, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

You're obviously the only one who thinks this. If it's in the volume and it's a canon character, it's canon. Stop with the stupidity already. 00:41, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Its pretty obvious that Movie Z is going to be canon so why the fuss,plus do you rly think oda would design post timeskip coby and aokiji for movie z and change their post timeskip look in the manga,no and this is more evidence that movie z is canon too. User:X-RAPTOR 00:46, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm with Gal on this one. It's in the volume, therefore it is a canon character. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) (talk) 00:48, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not going to go so far to say that Film Z is canon, but rather the characters presented in it are. Coby and Helmeppo's design hold nothing to the non canon or canon debate because of course Oda isn't going to provide a post skip design in the volume and then change it later. 00:49, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not going far as saying Film Z is not canon, either. It probably is. But however this Wiki considers which is which, that comes first.

There have been a ton of things in the volumes that aren't really canon. Countless chapters, for example, show the Straw Hats with random animals. Or even in some random Japanese-culture-like cover. Are all of those canon? Or how about the covers? Did Luffy and Buggy actually pose in the middle of their battle to take a picture for Volume 2? There's a million appearances that the canon characters have made that have never been considered canon. Not even the crossovers with Dragonball or Toriko. All were drawn (or co-drawn) by Oda and were special chapters. Still not a canon appearance. Canon characters can have non-canon appearances, and in this case, Coby has one. 00:54, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

If you seriously think using the cover pages as evidence for your silly statement is correct, then you're very wrong. Those aren't meant to show designs of a character post timeskip. This is not on a crossover page. This is not on a cover page. This is part of the volume canon. This is canon. Understand? 00:57, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

No, because nothing you've said proves it to be canon. It's a canon character in the volume. What canon character HASN'T made a new appearance in a volume? This was also a sketch. Not even a complete drawing. This isn't even in the plot yet. If it isn't considered canon, then it isn't considered canon. It's that simple. Until Oda says "Z is canon", then as far as we know, Z is not canon. 01:01, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah ok. You fail to understand what I say and I really couldn't explain it to you any better. My point still stands and it looks like you're still the only one with this warped point of view. 01:04, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not misunderstanding it. Your arguments are flawed. This Wiki does not consider "Z" to be canon yet, so all appearances connected to it are not canon. Just because they made an unofficial appearance in the manga doesn't make it canon. If it did, then Chopper would have eaten four Rumble Balls at one point, Nami would have slapped Oda, and every single character designed by Oda is canon. Even if Z is canon, which it most likely is, this Wiki doesn't consider it. Keep the image, and it's contradicting to how we run things. Just because I'm attacking your arguments doesn't mean I don't understand what you say. If your arguments are flawed, then maybe it's you who doesn't understand what you say. 01:14, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah... keep using gags as your arguments. It really makes it look better. This isn't "every single character designed by oda is canon" it's a post-timeskip design for a canon character being canon. Tell me this. Why would Oda provide their ranks (and we consider that canon), but decide to provide a fake drawing of them post skip (you don't consider canon). 01:22, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

First of all, I never said I don't consider Z canon. This Wiki does not consider Z canon. I consider is canon, but by how we run things, it's not until proven canon.

Oda provided their ranks for the Film, and gave a drawing to correspond with it. As why we consider the rank canon, that also contradicts with how we usually run things. Nonetheless, the appearance is not considered canon. You can make a big proposal that we should treat everything in Z canon, and hey, I'll support you, but until this Wiki decides an appearance is canon, then it isn't canon. 01:28, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

The only proposal I'd make is the characters being canon but not the events (due to the recent spread). The designs aren't for Z specifically anyways. Episode of Luffy is what they're made for. 02:24, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

"Episode of Luffy", being another non-canon serial. Like Film Z, it's a non-canon appearance of a canon character. 02:29, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but once again if Oda draws the timeskip designs of canon characters, then it's canon. It's just the only way to look at it. 02:53, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

But when the design isn't even used in the story yet, let alone a complete drawing, it can't be canon. Remember, these are sketches, not complete drawings. Until Oda actually uses it, it's nothing more than a sketch that Toei is using. 18:08, December 7, 2012 (UTC)



Yeah so.. Double checked the sbs and the source of the picture and it's in the ACTUAL sbs along with the ranks. So... yeah. 21:35, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

It's not the SBS. Unless somebody asked "do you have the sketches?" to Oda, it's not part of the SBS. The SBS is a question corner, and this is not the first time the SBS wasn't after a chapter. It's not the SBS, it's sketches along with the ranks. So...yeah. 22:41, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Klobis owns the volume Nada. He put the source there. How about you ask him? 02:42, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Bump. Stop the pointless edit war and talk on here, guys. 00:31, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Tried that already. I don't want an edit war, that's why I keep saying to go back here. 00:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

I've given you all the evidence. All the reasons. Every detail I could tell you, and you still refuse to believe it. When it gets to a point like this, there's really not more to discuss.

Too bad our meditator (JSD) isn't here to step in. 00:40, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

And I've given you counter-points, showing how flawed the evidence is, and yet you still stand by it. The pic stays pre-timeskip until the answer to the following question is "yes": Does the Wiki treat all events and characters in Film Z to be canon? 00:58, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Characters have already been approved as yes, so... yeah. Oda drew the designs in Volume Z... so yeah. Oda drew them in the SBS... so yeah. You can ignore the facts all you want Nada. The poll will show you what is right. 01:20, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Seemingly Needless Poll That's Needed Anyway
Let's keep this one short. If a majority is reached in five days then we implement the winning option. Users need 300 edits, three months of activity - you know the drill.

Should we use the pre-timeskip or post-timeskip image?

Pre-timeskip
 * 01:17, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 01:17, December 16, 2012 (UTC) (until an ultimate decision is made)
 * 1)  07:52, December 16, 2012 (UTC) Sell me on Z's canonicity on that the Film Z talk page, then I might change my mind.

Post-timeskip
 * 01:16, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) User:X-RAPTOR 01:18, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Fuck you, Gal-dono. c0ffee (talk) 01:19, December 16, 2012 (UTC)