Talk:Laugh Tale

Raftel
Its name is actually Rough Tale apparently. Something I've forgotten about. If we are to use the proper names, shouldn't it include renaming this? Raftel... I don't know the origins of it, I think its the subbers behind that. One-Winged Hawk 22:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The name has never been romanized, as far as I know... And if it hasn't, I would say that "Tale" is highly unlikely, as the kana aren't correct for that (it would need to be held out to be "tale", and it isn't, implying "tel") --Murasaki 23:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is the first time I've seen this spelling of the island plus when I saw the talk for this I didn't recognize it was about the island until reading it clearly. With this, Rough Tale might be the most uncommon version of the name if not new. Best to change it back to Raftel till some sources can be named like which notable subbers use it or such. I don't like to see another needless Arabasta fight among us.Mugiwara Franky 00:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Most used by everyone + Pronounced by Crocus (and just about everyone else in the series as well) as "Raff-tell" (Rafuteru, as opposed to Roffuteiru). (Justyn 03:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC))


 * Well the recent translations referring to it say Rough Tale... What do Stephen's (excuse mispelling if his name is wrong) say it is? One-Winged Hawk 21:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Yeah, he uses Raftel (at least, in chapter 105 he does, and as I don't remember any other Raftel mentions off the top of my head, that's all I'm looking at for now, as it's the first one in the series). I don't see why he's any more believable than myself, Justyn, or K-F, though... o_O Viz uses Raftel too, if I'm remembering correctly... I don't know where you're seeing these recent translations, but I know for a fact that on AP, most of the people doing chapter translations, although the translations are accurate, have no clue how to correctly translate katakana. I remember people calling it the "Furorian Triangle" for a while, despite the fact that it obviously is "Florian"... Dunno what finally convinced people to stop, but it's just another example of poor romanizations that people make. Katakana is difficult for people to do, for some reason... --Murasaki 22:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Would Shanks and Buggy know how to get to Raftel?AzNSammanX26 01:24, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

its implied but not confirmed in media that shanks and buggy being the rookies of the crew left long before gold rogers made it to raftel. likely before he even made it to the grand line base dont heir skill and abilities as well as the navy being more willing ot ignore them yet hunt silvers and old Tom for links to rogers. while un sourced it is likely after the buggy devil fruit incident both members left the crew and went their own ways. shanks may have stuck around longer with his power and since becomign an emporer though but it is strongly implied he left prior. 101.167.226.84 22:02, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

Laugh Tale
Been getting word that it's called Laugh Tale and not Raftel in light of Stampede. This is Levely/Reverie all over again.  SpookyBoogie27

To clear this up before anyone else comments:
 * Nothing will be changed based solely on hearsay.
 * Canon names will not be changed based on spellings in a non-canon movie. If it's from an official source like the magazine or special volume, that may be different.

Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:10, August 8, 2019 (UTC)

"Raftel" is not a canon name. If you simply don't want to change it because you don't like it that's one thing, but don't pretend it's anything other than a fan spelling in the absence of an official romanization. 45.56.153.80 12:26, August 9, 2019 (UTC)

I would wait for the Blu-ray version. It's all rumours now. Cdwp22 (talk) 12:29, August 9, 2019 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply that Raftel was Oda's official spelling. I simply meant that a movie is not a sufficient source to change the spelling of a canon subject's name because the anime is not reliable when it comes to name spellings. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:28, August 9, 2019 (UTC)

There's no canon English spelling of Raftel to begin with though, is there? The island itself is obviously canon, but the English name "Raftel" isn't. As far as I know Stampede, non-canon or not, is the first and only official source giving an English name for the island.Zistal (talk) 22:58, August 9, 2019 (UTC)

Something that's non canon doesn't count as an official source for a name spelling. SeaTerror (talk) 00:25, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

Canon or not this is the only spelling we have, so unless there's any other spelling we should use this one in my opinion. Cracker-Kun (talk) 06:47, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

While I still prefer for the movie to be accessible to editors before a decision is made on the name, we could certainly change the name to Laugh Tale if that's what the majority prefers. I like the name, personally. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:47, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

If it'll be spelled that way in the manga, I'll be fine with that. Until then, "Laugh Tale" can be in either Translation and Dub Issues or Trivia. --JouXIII (talk) 22:04, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

Having seen leaked scenes from the movie, I'm in favour of changing the name. In opposition to "Raftel", "Laugh Tale" bears the meaning. What concerns me is the fact that "tale" should be written as テイル, not テル. Cdwp22 (talk) 21:56, August 11, 2019 (UTC)

I too am in favor of changing the name after seeing movie leaks. As much as normally movies are non-canon, believe me when I say Stampede has A LOT of stuff that cannot simply be considered non-canon (because it is too direct to the main plot and would otherwise have obviously gotten a no from Oda, as he supervisés these things even if in the surface). I will not spoil, but the context upon which this name is revealed highly implies it is pretty much THE name for the island. Other unrelated things happen in this movie that strengthen this point. The Catalan language wiki has already changed the name. I am fine with waiting until the movie is seen by everyone here to change it (so far the movie will release dubbed October 18 in Spain and a week or two later in Italy, possibly other countries too), but this is definitely an issue of "when", not "if". It is a matter of time for this to be showcased in the manga, perhaps the next time the island is mentioned. The katakana is no issue, we have plenty more katakana mismatches (in this very movie, Bullet is pronounced "baretto" as opposed to Luffy's bullet attack and the correct English pronunciation of bullet, "buretto". Others include Camie's name (katakana is keimi, but if it adjusted to English pronunciation it should be more like "kamī"). Japanese people in general have a hard time with this, everything that hasn't been shown romanised can be misinterpreted (I recall an early version of one of the new world anime openings showed Usopp's name as "usoppu"). Fumbsiro (talk) 16:30, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

The movie is non-canon simply because the events of it were not in the manga. SeaTerror (talk) 16:53, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's not how it works this time. Yes the movie itself as a whole is undoubtedly non-canon, as you will quickly see because it presents some paradoxical character interactions highly incompatible with the story, but certain events in it are most definitely canon due to their very existence and nature. You will understand when you watch the movie (or if you read Artur's review of it on the library of O'Hara which is spoiler free BTW). I have no way of explaining this with words, but essentially these events and revelations are canon by virtue of the fact that they are what they are. It would be simply impossible to continue the mamga, both in its current Wano arc and upcoming ones, without reusing these plot points and character evolutions in it. It would require massive elongated and unfitting explanations to go against it and even then result in a worst outcome, which makes it all the more sense that Oda would have designed them to appear in the movie. This movie is not something that can be ignored and move on with the manga. If you don't watch it, you must at the very least read a summary of its canon parts before continuing with the manga. It's not an isolated one-time adventure. It has major implications for the story as a whole. Remember what Oda said a while ago "I wouldn't have let them do this if it wasn't in the name of the 20th anniversary" (referring to the anime anniversary) Fumbsiro (talk) 17:32, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

I've seen the reviews and spoilers about the movie, and from I've seen, there's nothing canon in this movie. JouXIII (talk) 19:43, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

Even in the most conservative estimate, I can see at least 2 plot points which are VERY important and, while of course they wouldn't be canon "de iure", I'm not challenging the idea that things that appear in movies and not in manga are not canon, are set up in such a way that they would be canon "de facto", in the sense that after seeing them, you gain almost absolute confidence that "there is no way these events are not canon". I am completely in agreement about not changing anything until the plot points appear in the manga, that is the right way to do things and I won't question it, it's just that I am so confident these events will appear in the manga due to their circumstance, that to me it is only a matter of time they will be canon "de jure" too. I won't go into detail, but as you can see in the topmost part of this page, back in 2007 some people suspected "rough tale" already, and they weren't too far. So as far as the name of the island goes, sure leave it at Raftel for now, but rest assured the name will appear in the manga too and when it does we will be able to change it. It may take 5 years to happen, we don't mind, in the minds of those like me who consider it the right name we won't mind technicalities. Fumbsiro (talk) 21:30, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

Does "Raftel" have any source whatsoever? If not, why keep it? KingCannon (talk) 02:36, August 13, 2019 (UTC)

It doesn’t matter if the movie is non-canon. It’s the only official romanization for the island Meshack (talk) 15:08, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, if it's not in the manga. --JouXIII (talk) 15:40, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

"Foosha Village" isn’t in the manga or "Fish-Man Island" Meshack (talk) 17:44, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

Those came from Oda himself. SeaTerror (talk) 19:29, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

Sora (both Vinsmoke and fictional) were changed based on the anime and then changed back based on the anime. The rule is manga takes president over the anime and the anime over the translation, but in this case the movie is all we got so that is what we should go by. Rhavkin (talk) 20:12, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

@SeaTerror How do we know those spellings came from "Oda himself?"

I agree with Rhavkin Meshack (talk) 05:31, August 29, 2019 (UTC)

Because Oda literally does the Color Walks himself. SeaTerror (talk) 07:42, August 29, 2019 (UTC)

And we’re gonna automatically assume that just because it’s a movie, Oda didn’t write Laugh Tale himself? Meshack (talk) 12:59, August 30, 2019 (UTC)

All the movies canon confirmed. SeaTerror (talk) 19:00, August 30, 2019 (UTC)

The Bad Sources section on the Page Naming Guidelines exists for a reason; some sources are simply not reliable enough to have their name spellings trusted. The anime is part of that list.

Now, renaming this page to Laugh Tale isn't out of the question if the majority supports it, but with confirmation Oda was involved in the spelling being lacking, there's no onus to change it. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:03, August 31, 2019 (UTC)

We've changed names based on the anime before, like the Sora-Sola example I mentioned above. Was the name "Raftel" ever confirmed to begin with? Oda or not, anime > translation. Rhavkin (talk) 12:30, August 31, 2019 (UTC)

Changing Sora to Sola was a mistake. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:38, August 31, 2019 (UTC)

And it was changed back only when Vinsmoke Sora's grave was seen. Going by that means we should change Raftel to Laugh Tale, and at worst, change it back when new information is available. Rhavkin (talk) 12:43, August 31, 2019 (UTC)

The recent interview with Oda and  is enough of a reason to move. Either:
 * (a) he's referring to the romanization (most likely); or
 * (b) he's not specifically referring to the romanization, but some other 'secret' about the island that was revealed in the movie (one obvious enough to prompt discussion, which hasn't occurred in respect of anything except the romanization) which in any event shows he had enough input into the movie that he wouldn't let a 'wrong' romanization of such significance slip through the keeper (see also question re Bullet's bounty in the same interview).

It's just not plausible to still argue Oda wasn't involved.

So we have a mountain in favor of Laugh Tale and ... absolutely nothing for Raftel. Going by the order in the Manual of Style there's no justification for keeping it.

Worst case scenario Oda decides on a different romanization later on and you change it again, like has happened every single time he's changed his mind. The island isn't going to appear for at least 4-5 years absolute minimum, it's really not a huge deal. 45.56.153.35 15:35, August 31, 2019 (UTC)

Here's proof that it was romanized as Laugh Tale.

I support changing the name to Laugh Tale. The movies may not be reliable sources, but Raftel doesn't have any ground to stand on compared to it and I personally like the name. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:27, September 3, 2019 (UTC)

I second Laugh Tale Meshack (talk) 01:05, September 12, 2019 (UTC)

+1 from me. It's the official spelling, same as Levely. Yes, it did come from a non-canon movie, but even a non-canon movie is officially sanctioned material which, as far as I see it, should trump any fan spelling. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:30, September 23, 2019 (UTC)

Should be changed. Solely because there's no evidence whatsoever that "Raftel" was even correct to begin with. KingCannon (talk) 17:40, September 23, 2019 (UTC)

Change it already for god's sake, what's the point of keeping a romanization we never knew it was correct at all instead of one that was shown in an official film that, although non-canon, it was supervised by the author and is the only source we have in more than 20 years? The policy of this wiki sometimes grind my gears, really. --KishinZoro177 (talk) 02:37, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

If the page is changed to Laugh Tale, I'm against purging any mention of Raftel. If anything, it should be "Laugh Tale, otherwise known as Raftel, is the island at the end....."--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 02:50, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Should be noted in trivia that the spelling came from a non canon source too. SeaTerror (talk) 04:27, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be the same for the characters from back then: "Donquixote Doflamingo, otherwise known as Tanjiahdo Lofulamingo", "Bartholomew Kuma, otherwise known as Bisoromi Bear" and so on. /s  • Seelentau 愛 議 10:42, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

I'll also throw my vote in for what is a clear majority for "Laugh Tale". Time to close this discussion. I'll ask Kaido to run his bot and change all instances of "Raftel" on other articles, so please don't start doing that manually. We do in fact mention alternate names when they're significant enough (i.e. usually the official English name), such as Levely, so a similar note seems appropriate here. 12:10, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Is Raftel the official English name? That changes the mentioning issue, of course. My bot is on it btw. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:56, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Indeed it is. Alright, thanks for taking care of that. 13:20, October 5, 2019 (UTC)

Laugh Tale is a mistake. In romanization "r" changes to "l" and the opposite. So the true romanized name of Raftel is "Laughter" (not Laughtel or Laugh Tale). 2A02:587:3812:AD00:6DD0:7666:AF21:50A0
 * You don't know Japanese, do you? • Seelentau 愛 議 15:08, October 8, 2019 (UTC)

The thing is, it's not romanization, it was written in English:. Rhavkin (talk) 15:09, October 8, 2019 (UTC)

Romanization means English letters in the most basic description so that is also a romanization Rhavkin. SeaTerror (talk) 19:26, October 8, 2019 (UTC)

Location
Where was it stated to be in the New world, or the Grand Line at all anyway? It was assumed that this is the island at the end of the Grand Line, but since the Zou Arc, the middle of the Road Poneglyphs square could be anywhere. Rhavkin (talk) 20:36, December 20, 2019 (UTC)

Chapter 105 and Chapter 818. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:56, December 20, 2019 (UTC)

Both say "Last Island of the Grand Line" not on, so it might mean "the final destination of those who sail the Grand Line". And in 820 Crocus in particular was stated to not be straight forward at that time. Rhavkin (talk) 21:10, December 20, 2019 (UTC)