Category talk:Presumed Deceased

Largo
could largo be added to the list? he and his crew were punched knock out into the sea and he himself is a devil fruit user

What about Bon Clay who picked a fight with Magellan. Bon Clay is a melee fighter, so even one hit would cause him to be poisoned

and Bellamy? Did Sarquis decapitate him?

Okay everyone, first of all, PLEASE sign your posts with ~. It's a notification in your editor for a reason. Second, Largo may be an acceptable person to add. But this is a Wiki. If you feel like anything can be added, please add it. About Bon Clay, he was seen alive in one of the chapter covers. Bellamy may also be a choice to add, but like I said before, you're free to add him. This isn't a textbook, it's a Wiki. You can add whatever you want. 01:33, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

You just replied to a message from 2010 Nada. 01:36, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Insert the "dunce" hat on me now... 01:47, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Necessity
I can already see this category being abused once again, such as Shiki, Gasparde and Nero. I'd say, get rid of this category; if Kinemon's status is so important, then just leave it blank, just as we having trouble with Sabo's status for so long, just as Haruta's gender was undetermined until the databook came out, just as Doflamingo claiming Moriah to be dead for sure but turns out not. 10:21, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the problem. The thing is, if we respect what I wrote in the category, there's no speculation involved. But people are already starting to speculate (Roshio is probably dead, Bellamy is probably dead…) It is not about probability. It is about what is believed in-universe—which is perfectly provable. No speculation. Kinemon is an example, Sabo was another one before we found a confirmation in Green. Roshio may work, since I believe people in Jaya were discussing his probable death. But for Bellamy, or Drip, we have neither any proof of their death nor any proof that they are believed to be dead, so they should stay out of both categories.

I hate the category. What you said is exactly what I said. Leave it blank unless absolutely confirmed. This category will just be abused by people who want certain characters dead. The wikia has a rule against speculation therefore this category should be gone. The policy should be this: only add characters to the list when absolutely confirmed but leave it alone when not. Oda's policy is "alive until proven otherwise" There are numerous examples you could see from that: Pell, Arlong, Bon Kurei, etc. SeaTerror (talk) 16:36, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Drip was drowned in swamp, how is that different from Kinemon petrified? Both their statuses are equal and unconfirmed. Besides, if your notice was respected, then this category may be remotely usable, but soon speculations and disrespectful would start to abuse it. 19:43, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

This category can be seen sort of as a compromise between leaving a character's status blank and calling them dead. The only way for a character to make it on here is for their death to be confirmed but disputable. Two prime examples are Kinemon and Roshio. Both have been declared dead with no evidence to the contrary but there is still a small margin for error. A prime counter example would be Nero, who was last seen getting thrown into the sea. That leaves the question of his death way too open-ended since he wasn't a Devil Fruit user. The same goes for Shiki and Gasparde. But as for characters like Kinemon and Roshio, I see this category as a good middle ground so that edit wars can be avoided. It serves as a stasis until one or the other is confirmed but still pleases both sides. 20:10, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

So only when a character declares the target "dead" but actual status unconfirmed... okay. But if people start to abuse this, should we delete it? 22:19, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Let's wait and see about the abuse thing and cross that bridge if and when we come to it. It might be an issue, it might not be. 22:30, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

If people start to abuse it, I say punish the user, not the category. 22:34, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Right, punish the abuser and not the abused, wait to see how things turn out. But another problem: let's say Kinemon is determined dead/not dead next chapter (or a few chapters later... and let's face it, it should be soon based on my experience) then only Roshio would remain on the page. An entire category devoted to one person alone, that's not right. 02:26, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

In the long run, I think it's better to have people abusing this category rather than the truly dead category. If people in this discussion have problems with certain characters being in this category though, they should discuss them on the character's talk page, not here.

As far as the argument that after Kinemon is confirmed either way, this category will be nearly empty, I don't think it's an important argument. There will always be more characters that can be "presumed dead" later. We should have this category around so that the "truly dead" category isn't abused in the future. And as Gal said, we should punish editors who add it excessively, and not worry about the category. 06:52, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Right-i-o. 07:01, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I can see this category being abused already... Wish Oda would just be outright and show us Bellamy's head being lopped off, so we don't have to do so much guesswork. 10:31, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

More?
Alright, Eric, I understand. But Nelson and Ganzack? Nobody said them otherwise. 19:08, December 22, 2012 (UTC)