Talk:Joy Boy

necessity
Shouldnt we integrate this page with the Poneglyph page? A 2 sentence page is never desirable. 11:18, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

No we shouldn't cause if they reveal more info on "Joy Boy" we need somewhere to put it.joshua 11:21, June 18, 2011 (UTC)J Valente

Yes, when they reveal more stuff we could make a page for it. Now it's not necessary to be it's own page. Also please sign your posts with ~ -- 11:25, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I already deleated this page because the name can be related to even "will of D ", so we would create the page again when everything is known about him.

12:08, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

But we could also keep it, give it a reference to chapter 628 and add more as we learn about him during One Piece, we should leave it be until further discussion at least. 12:17, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

It does not make sense lol, because it can be anything. If it is related to will of D then we may not able to look out this page or this page would be not imaporatant.

12:21, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

We can keep it on the poneglyph page itself. No need for this page. 12:36, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

same info is carried on poneglyph page and even spelling is not correct

12:38, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

ok,ok 12:39, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Name
Does anyone know why the wiki calls him "Joy Boy" instead of "Joyboy"? There's no indication of a space in the Katakana. I'm asking this because in Volume 95, Amazonlily (アマゾンリリー) was corrected to Amazon Lily (アマゾン・リリー), indicating that spacing is important enough to Oda. Was his name translated like this somewhere in the raws? • Seelentau 愛 議 14:36, January 20, 2020 (UTC)

We have cases like Laugh Tale (ラフテル), though. 17:26, January 20, 2020 (UTC)

Which was "Raftel" until its actual name was revealed. Similarily, it should be "Joyboy" until the actual name is revealed to be "Joy Boy". • Seelentau 愛 議 10:59, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

And even after the reveal, it is Laugh Tale (with a space) while the Japanese doesn't have the separation dot. Rhavkin (talk) 12:40, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

That's true, and if we had a confirmed name for ジョイボーイ, it would be a good example of Oda being inconsistent. But we don't and currently, the likelihood of ジョイボーイ being written as "Joyboy" is higher than being written as "Joy Boy". • Seelentau 愛 議 16:03, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

How is the likelihood higher? Rhavkin (talk) 16:08, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

There's no space in the Katakana. If the Katakana were just mentioned for the first time, I'm pretty sure we'd have him written as "Joyboy" without any discussion and anyone who'd have asked why it's not "Joy Boy" would've been told exactly that: There's no space in the Katakana. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:25, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

So do you think we should change Whole Cake Island and Mont Blanc Noland to name a few? Rhavkin (talk) 16:33, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

This isn't about their names, it's about Joyboy. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:45, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

If your only argument is "There's no space in the Katakana, so there shouldn't be a space in English", what's the difference between those cases? Rhavkin (talk) 16:58, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

They were given official names, Joyboy wasn't. But, I mean, we can easily compare arguments for and against the space:


 * Against: There's no space in the Katakana.
 * For: Don't know, you tell me. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:04, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

For:
 * Numerous times in the past, when using non-Japanese words, the Katakana has no separation dot, like islands (Whole Cake Island (ホールケーキアイランド)), people (Mont Blanc Noland (モンブラン・ノーランド)), events (Knock Up Stream), locations (Grand Line), or objects (Log Pose).
 * There is no official naming so protocol says to leave the page as is until proven otherwise.

Rhavkin (talk) 19:20, January 21, 2020 (UTC)

So basically the reasoning is "It's always been like that and although it's wrong, it might turn out right so we're gonna leave it wrong.", I see. By the way, only one of those examples is actually fitting, which is Noland's, since that's the only person's name. And he got an official spelling, so it doesn't fit either. Or do you think this character's name is Mr. Boy? :D • Seelentau 愛 議 10:48, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

The point is that English words written in Katakana do not have space. Rhavkin (talk) 11:05, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

モンブラン・ノーランド has a space, though. Real life examples exist too, of course. Oh and the official VIZ version names him "Joyboy" too, right? So from what I see, "Joy Boy" is a fan translation, right? Why are we using it when there's enough reason not to? Just because of other cases that have almost no relation? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:30, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

The space is between his first and last name, not in the last name. Rhavkin (talk) 13:56, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. So why do we act like there's a space in "Joyboy" when there is none? • Seelentau 愛 議 14:22, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

What don't you understand? The lack of a space in Katakana does not mean there is not a space in English. Yes, there is no official "Joy Boy" but there is no official "Joyboy" as well, and since there is no new reason for a change, why change? Especially when there are more cases that prove there is a space, with the no space argument is only because of the viz translation, which was never 100% credible. Rhavkin (talk) 14:49, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

My point is: There shouldn't be no new reason, because "Joy Boy" should've never been a thing in the first place. It's an erroneous translation of the Katakana, since it makes up a space where there is none. It doesn't even need a comparison to other unfit examples (Noland has an official translation, Joyboy doesn't) or a comparison to VIZ. Those cases don't prove that there's a space in "Joyboy" after all, they only prove that there's a space in their own names. Which brings me back to "It's always been like that and although it's wrong, it might turn out right so we're gonna leave it wrong." - and I thought this wiki had a higher quality standard than willingly keeping a wrong translation? Because as you know, if it turns out to be "Joy Boy" after all, we can still change it back. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:37, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

This wiki does have a higher quality standard, which is way we don't rename articles without a cause. As I said, both "Joy Boy" and "Joyboy" are not official, so again, why change? If we'll ever get an official translation to either, there wouldn't be a discussion, but until there is there is no reason to change one possible name in favor of another possible name.

You still failed to convince a lack of space in the Katakana means a lack of space in English, so there is no reason to choose this possible name. If you truly think there is a possibility that "Joy Boy" might be the right name, why change the page twice? Rhavkin (talk) 16:10, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Because the possibility is very slim, unless "Boy" is intended to be this person's first name (because of Japanese naming conventions, his Western name would be "Boy Joy"). But that's what we're presenting right now: That there's a character named "Boy Joy". Which isn't the case, because there is no space in the name, as I said multiple times now. This is also the reason why the comparisons with names such as "Whole Cake Island" don't work - they're not peoples' names. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:16, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Is "Joyboy" a real enough name? How many "Luffy"s and "Dragon"s do you know in real life? If Oda wants to call his characters "Joy", "Boy", or whatever he wants, its fictional. There is a characters called "Kid", is "Boy" really that of a slim possibility? Rhavkin (talk) 16:39, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

It's not about the weirdness of the name (although "Boy Joy" is really weird, if you think about it), it's about how we present this character's name as first + last name (or reverse), because we add a space where none should be. Despite in the Japanese manga, no indication of it being first + last name exists at all (because there's no space). • Seelentau 愛 議 17:28, January 22, 2020 (UTC)