Talk:Whole Cake Island Arc

Name
They're not even on the island. Anything can happen so all the recent edits using this name should be undone. SeaTerror (talk) 17:40, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Right now the main focus of the past two chapters has been the voyage to Whole Cake Island, so the name is fine. If the main focus changes we can change its name to something better, no big deal. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:47, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't matter. It should have been discussed first and then created. It is pure speculation that this will be the arc name or that they will even get there. SeaTerror (talk) 17:50, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that they could suddenly get stuck in Florian Triangle version 2 and have another Summit War until  they get there, but the part of the crew travelling there has appeared consistently in the last two chapters, the island itself has appeared and Sanji, at least, has arrived at it. Hawkinz340 (talk) 17:56, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

Fishman Island Arc started five chapters before the Straw Hats actually arrived there. Give it time... Rhavkin (talk) 18:13, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

I just don't like using the location-based name before we get there. I'd prefer we keep it part of Zou Arc for now, as Jack is still around and we don't know if both plotlines will resolve at the same or different times. 22:08, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

We're only 2 chapters into the new arc, and so far it's all over the place. We have the Reverie, Baltigo, a glimpse of Kaido's island, and a little bit of Zou. Not to mention that we haven't even seen Whole Cake Island yet. My suggestion is that we have a placeholder title like "29th Story Arc" until we get a few more chapters so we can come up with a better name Roranoa Drake II (talk) 18:56, April 22, 2016 (UTC)

I'm beginning to worry that Oda is never going to stick to one island at a time anymore. We could get chapters that are 50% Luffy on Whole Cake Island, 50% Zoro at Wano. And if that's the case, we're gonna have to rethink our 'naming arcs based on location' policy. 04:49, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

The series follow Luffy. Even if we see someone else someplace else, the arcs are still about Luffy's adventure. Rhavkin (talk) 04:53, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

They reached Big Mom's territory. Can we close the discussion? Rhavkin (talk) 17:37, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

No, because we still don't know if this arc will only focus on Luffy's group rescuing Sanji or not. 18:08, May 2, 2016 (UTC)

So, now that we know that the current island the Straw Hats are is called "Cacao Island", part of "Totland", should we change the name of the arc to one of those 2? KingCannon (talk) 14:09, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

They might leave it in the next chapter. We should wait. Rhavkin (talk) 14:11, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Whole Cake Island is their main destination while Cacao is just a brief stop, so the name should stay. And as the past 3 chapters have focused solely on the Sanji retrieval team, it's evident that the arc is about the Whole Cake plot Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:27, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

"Totland Arc" sounds best to me at the moment. It encompasses the whole country, not just one location. It's the "Alabasta Arc" not the "Alubarna Arc". The islands just seem to be small cities within the country. 18:38, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

I happen to agree on that one

Joekido (talk) 18:41, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Oda's notebook was titled 'Whole Cake Island'--41.232.204.102 18:49, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion, we need a temp name that won't contradict any future story progession. "Big Mom Arc" is the safest bet to use for the next 8-10 chapters until we get a feel for what's happening. 20:31, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

We could do the same as FT Wikia does and just call this arc "New Arc" or whatever, until we know what the story will be focusing on for sure. Too bad this suggestion will just get shot down.

If we have to pick a name for now, I like JSD's idea, "Totland Arc". 21:03, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

To elaborate, I don't think we can name it after any one location for now. I have a hard time imagining the Straw Hats are going to spend an entire adventure's worth on Totland with all the talk of Whole Cake Island, but who can say? It was hyped up a lot this chapter. Right now I think Totland has to be compared to Green Bit of Dressrosa. We never gave Green Bit it's own arc, and with our current system, it doesn't deserve one. I don't know if in 10 chapters, our party's going to be on Whole Cake, Totland, Big Mom's boat, or perhaps a Germa 66 ship. What I do know is that it'll be centered on Big Mom and her armada. So no matter what happens, "Big Mom Arc" will cover it. It's only going to be another month or two until we'll know what to call it anyway. 23:53, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

Given the amount of attention focused on Totland this chapter, and a lot of OP fans are now calling this the Totland arc, I'd say it's pretty safe to rename to Totland Arc. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:24, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

I support Ryu's idea. It's the safest route for probably a long while. 18:35, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

This same discussion has been had one too many times for my liking. There is NOTHING wrong with central location-named arcs, and up until now they have yet to lead us astray. The name of any story arc should reference

A) The main location the action takes/will take place

OR

B) The main non-SH players involved

OR

C) The main event/climax of the arc

If you can create a name that actually encapsulates more than one of these with as few words as possible, then whoopty-doo for a guy like you. But "Whole Cake Island", or "Big Mom" are completely fine as is. This saga is about the YONKO, and Whole Cake Island is said Yonko's base of operations where the climax of this arc (THE WEDDING) will be taking place. You could even call it Sanji's Tea Party arc for all I give a damn, just stop the fruitless arguments. Since everyone seems to be presenting valid logic for the most part, lets just do the common sense thing here and vote. HanataSanchou (talk) 19:27, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate your input, but I don't, uh... See your point? We're not, like, hating each other here. This is a talk page and we're talking. Of course it's going to sound similar to past discussions, but this has to be played case-by-case. Right now we've barely had enough contribution to get a general concensus. I don't even think every point-of-view has been seen or heard yet. It's waaay to early to call for a poll, so let's just keep going until  we hit a dead end. 20:04, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

You guys are forgetting that Whole Cake Island is a part of the Totland archipelago so it won't matter if we change this to Totland because it focus everything that happens on Totland so I believe it's safe to just change it. Joekido (talk) 21:07, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

Totland arc is just as safe as Big Mom arc plus it fits the location naming scheme. In fact, given what we know so far, it'll probably be better than Whole Cake Island, given the attention given to the whole archipelago rather than just Whole Cake. Also, this arc seems to be as much about the Vinsmokes and Germa 66 as Big Mom, so naming it after her would be a bit misleading. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:24, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

I never said anyone was hating anyone.....my point is that we keep having these kneejerk reactions to new information, and for whatever reason, seem to think that there's a problem with just giving things time. Why does this warrant a change here and now, when we could just as easily end up changing it again 10-15 chapters later? In my opinion it looks a lot better for us to make ONE change after waiting for clear cut proof, than to make multiple every time the wind sways one direction. I'm fine with Totland, but to play Devil's Advocate, you could also say that these 34 islands being centered around Whole Cake only emphasizes its importance further. But if you're going to insist on making the change now, all I'm saying is at least make some sort of attempt at consensus first. Since "the way we do things" seems to be under scrutiny. HanataSanchou (talk) 02:46, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Totland would be the best choice since it would be more encompassing. The last time we were in an archipelago, they went to several islands in their attempt to locate Shakky. Totland will save us a lot of arguing later on. 03:58, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

It's often hard to reach a consensus on matters that involve alot of opinion rather than fact (not saying this one is all opinion-based). And to further reply to HanataSanchou, yeah you're right, but in my eyes this does warrant a change because we are a wiki and try to be as accurate as possible, especially in arc-naming where alot of fanboys get overly aggitated if we do not change things to how it would be most accurately right then, right there. Sure, keeping it Whole Cake Island won't hurt theoratically, but sometimes changing things can prevent awkward talk pages saying that they aren't even on Whole Cake Island etc etc etc. I hope you understand :). Also, since the majority seems to want Totland, sure, you have my support. 11:38, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Again, the last time they were on an archipelago, they crossed several islands in one chapter, yet we didn't say the "Grove 47 Arc" went from page 3 to page 4 of chapter 497. It's best to think big picture here in this case. 19:26, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

We've been within the boarders of Totland (Big Mom's territory) for several chapters, we have only seen slices of other locations within chapters that still advance the Totland story. I think "Totland Arc" is the best, and most valid name.

We've got like 5 or 6 in favor of "Totland Arc" vs 2-3 from my understanding of the discussion from May 2nd onward. I think we're almost at a clear majority, and we should go for the rename if the margin grows by 1 or 2 more editors. We can always reopen the discussion if the name becomes less valid later on. As a wiki we work with what we've got at the time, and people understand that (which is how wikis like FT can we away with "New Arc" without losing face), so I don't think the number of times we change the title should be a factor at all. Let's just get the best name on the article. 20:46, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, Totland Arc sounds like a good way to go for now. If the main location shifts to Whole Cake Island, we can just rename it again later. 15:44, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, We should go for the rename then. Perhaps we should get a bot involved? 15:53, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Chapter 829 cover says "the Sanji retrieval arc" on the right. I know we can't trust the translation word per word, but it's quite far from "Totland". 5.97.224.130 20:31, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Sanji Retrieval Arc sounds right. The color page on 829 explicitly said that, so maybe we should take it as official. MavikVCT (talk) 23:06, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

This isn't Naruto. SeaTerror (talk) 23:13, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

St, what does Naruto has to do with anything? It's on this manga official cover and who the hell care if another manga used a similar name earlier? And don't forget that Sanji was originally called "Naruto" so if Oda did in fact want's to make a reference, who are you to say otherwise? Anyway, now we have the raw so it can be properly translate. Rhavkin (talk) 23:55, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

So... No one abject beside SeaTerror? Barto mafia family (talk) 07:27, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Well then let me jump in. This is very similar to our past discussion on the Dressrosa Saga talk page. We have to take any name we get about an arc or saga with a grain of salt. The magazine publishers don't run a wiki. They don't care about consistantly and clearly presenting information to the readers. They want to sell books. They called it "Sanji Retrieval" this time, but next time they'll call it "Big Mom", then they'll call it "Whole Cake". Then Toei, Viz, or an a Databook is going to come out with a completely different name for it. They don't have official names like we do, they just call it whatever gets the point across. If they had any concern for an official official name for these arcs and sagas, they would tell us the names of the whole series already and take the guess work out of it.

We have naming patterns on our wiki to best get the information out. Time and time again, we choose to name an arc after the island it takes place on, and that makes it consistant and easy to organize. And right now, when we have no idea where the story is heading, it's best to pick a vague blanket name like Totland Arc. Obviously I can only speak to myself, but I think the majority of users are going to stay in favor of Totland. And the reason no one else was commenting is because you forgot to add the 'active discussions' template. It's really easy. When you're in edit mode, under where it says "Templates", click 'Add other templates' and then type "Active Discussions". You should see it pop up. Now a little green puzzle piece should appear on the page. If you put that at the top of the page, it will tell users that there's something here to talk about. 12:03, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Jump does indeed "jump" from name to name for the sake selling books. But it's so far the best we've got, and probably the first time we actually have an "official" name for an arc. 16:03, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

Given the fact that the crew and Sanji are on the island, shouldn't it be back to Whole Cake Island Arc? I don't think they'll be leaving it, and they really were in Totland for only one or two chapters. MavikVCT (talk) 18:27, July 21, 2016 (UTC)

I don't see the point is waiting any longer. They spent 7 chapters in various parts of Totto Land, and so far 10 chapters on Whole Cake Island. Similarly, it took 7 chapters into the Fishman Island Arc before the Straw Hats actually set foot on Fishman Island. Everyone in the community knows it as the Whole Cake Island arc, are we good to change it now? 02:45, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps this is just my unwillingness to change the history headers AGAIN, but I don't see why it needs to be changed. A big part of the fanbase recognizes it as the Totland Arc anyways Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 02:49, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Whole Cake Island arc sounds much better tbh HiddenAssassinxxXX (talk) 03:05, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Just because it sounds better doesn't mean it's the name Meshack (talk) 03:56, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't hurt to keep it like this for a while, and it's technically still relevant: they're still in Totto Land. We can always change it later on if people start nagging. 10:13, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

If we're changing it, then change it to the offical name "Sanji Retrival Arc". 12:08, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

I'm all for changing the name to Whole Cake Island arc. We kind of named Totland arc on a whim. Fans already refer to the arc with that name since they've been predicting that arc to happen for years. If the issue is going around renaming it then I won't have a problem of doing it myself later. But if what Kage said really is the official name then we should use that instead of our own made up name like we did for the Pirate Alliance Saga. 13:35, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

If the official name really is the "Sanji Retrieval Arc" then we should change it. If there is a source then share it. Meshack (talk) 16:11, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

"This isn't Naruto". SeaTerror (talk) 17:43, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Meshack, as I said three month ago, the source is the writing on the cover of chapter 829.

SeaTerror, we all know this isn't Naruto TYVM, but that has noting to do with this. Different manga can have the same arc name structure. For example, Naruto, Bleach and One Piece had an arc named "_____ War" (Fourth Shinobi World, Quincy Blood, Post), and Fairy tail had arcs with "_____ Island" (Galuna and Tenrou). The fact that another manga has a similar arc name structure doesn't mean it's not the arc's name. Rhavkin (talk) 19:26, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

The title isn't from Oda. Oda doesn't write on his own artwork like that. SeaTerror (talk) 20:28, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

"Whole Cake Island Arc" and "Totto Land Arc" are also not from Oda. What's your point? Rhavkin (talk) 20:36, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

Well if none of them are from Oda, and it truly is neutral, I vote Whole Cake Island. 22:57, September 18, 2016 (UTC)

ST, if you want to go by Oda then he called each half of the series "Saga". By narrative context, everything we called "Sage" is an "Arc", and everything we called "Arc" is "Storyline". Barto mafia family (talk) 13:50, September 19, 2016 (UTC)

The majority of this is on Whole Cake, just like "Alabasta Arc". So Whole Cake does sound like a consistent and accurate way to go. "Skypiea Arc" happens on Skypiea, "Marineford Arc" on Marineford, "Dressrosa Arc" on Dressrosa, etc. They are all majority on a specific island, in this case is Whole Cake. So Whole Cake sounds better than the entire 35-islands "Totto Land Arc". 01:44, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Again, the Straw Hats have spent just as much time on the other islands as they did in the ocean before reaching Fishman Island. You wouldn't call it "The Underseas Arc" just to include 7 chapters. Also, Totto Land is to Whole Cake Island as the Florian Triangle is to Thriller Bark. 11:58, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Actually Skypiea is a counter-example since the majority of it takes place on Upper Yard. Totto Land is the nation, and there's connections to the other islands like their ministers showing up. 17:06, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, so far a lot of the focus has been on the entire archipelago of Totland, and even when Whole Cake Island has been the main setting there's been quite a lot of talk/events relating to Totland as a whole. It's not just something the Straw Hats pass through and promptly forget, such as, say, the Hot-Hot Sea they went through at the beginning of the arc. Plus, a decent part of the arc has taken place in the Germa Kingdom, which despite currently being within Whole Cake is its own sovereign nation. The particular island of Whole Cake has never really been set up as the primary focus, in contrast to Fishman Island and Dressrosa. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:26, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, so to those who aren't sure about switching to Whole Cake, would you change your minds after another 10+ chapters exclusively on Whole Cake Island? Or have most of you decided on Totto Land from now into forever? 17:43, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

The wiki ain't gonna implode if it stays like this. We even have Whole Cake Island arc listed as another name on the article. Also, Big Mom is queen of the entire Totto Land and not just Whole Cake Island, keep that in mind with comparisons.

It's funny, in a way, actually. One of the main reason we changed it to Totto Land Arc was to prevent discussions. But oh well, I guess some people believe we've waited enough to bring the topic up. I, myself, would have brought it back up somewhere near the end of the arc. Main reason for that is the chance that we decide to change it to Sanji's retrieval arc is still there. That would be the, what now? Fifth change of this arc's name? 18:02, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not gonna think about my future thought process. Ten chapters from now Big Mom could be defeated and the Straw Hats are in Wano for all we know. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:14, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

This should be brought up again after the arc because we might just end up changing it again. Meshack (talk) 19:42, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with changing it and there's no reason to prevent a developing discussion. If we get new information, we'll update to that new information. Right now we list Pekoms as unknown status, fully aware that we will change it later. When this discussion began, they were not on Whole Cake Island. And there wasn't much a callout for Whole Cake Island. Now they have spent majority time on Whole Cake Island. Our information changed and I decided to revisit the conversation. And people are saying that they don't really know if things will stay on Whole Cake Island in the future.

I was 100% for Totto Land (then called Totland) 10 chapters ago, as you can see on this very page. It's what made sense from what we were given. I am 100% for Whole Cake Island now. And in 10 chapters, maybe it'll be the Germa Kingdom Arc, who knows? But I don't think Totto Land makes sense anymore, and I won't be sour if you disagree. I say make it accurate for the time being and don't stall for another year like we did with "Pirate Alliance Saga". What I wanted to know was if you guys were pro-WCI but thought it was too soon to know, or if you thought Totto Land/Sanji Retrieval was the better choice all-in-all. Just healthy discussion. 20:24, September 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'm fine with having WCI abouts now, but I'm fine with Totto Land too. I'm a bit biased towards the latter (I think I also speak for Kaido on this one) as changing an arc name is incredibly tedious work that involves hunting down the most obscure templates and one-page characters. Of course it's good to discuss these things openly, as in the end we need to reach a consensus. I just wanted to make clear that we're not obligated to changes as of now. It boils down to what is imo the most efficient, as what is most correct changes depending on the perspective. But you are right in the way that what we deem correct is evidently only one option, despite the perspectives. 20:43, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

Status of a character is different than a what name to choose for an arc. Meshack (talk) 20:39, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

I don't mind having to go through and change the name of the arc on the article pages if it comes to that. It's actually easier than you think. Anyways, the discussion so far has brought upon us with three choices for naming this arc: Totto Land Arc, Whole Cake Island Arc, and Sanji Retrieval Arc. I see the responses to be mixed and every side has made some good arguments. Perhaps it would be best if we poll it now. I suggest having 2 polls. Poll 1: Should the current arc be renamed? If the consensus is yes, then we move on to Poll 2. Poll 2: What should the current arc be renamed to? There you would decide between Whole Cake Island and Sanji Retrieval Arc 23:34, September 20, 2016 (UTC)

A little awkward. I prefer Whole Cake Island over Totto Land, but personally despise Sanji Retrieval Arc. I want to vote to change but only if my choice wins poll 2. But I guess there's no better way to do it. It's simply unfair to vote for three items at once, so I'm for Drake's plan. 03:53, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

The two polls thing sounds like a good idea HiddenAssassinxxXX (talk) 04:22, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

Why not making one poll with three options? Barto mafia family (talk) 15:01, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Because I want WCI over Totto Land, and Totto Land over Sanji's Retrieval. If 10 people vote, 3 of them for WCI, 3 of them for Totto Land, and 4 of them for Sanji's Retrieval, then Sanji's Retrieval wins. But if you take out WCI as an option, then 6 people vote for Totto Land and only 4 for Sanji's Retrieval. Totto Land wins. It's always better not to split the vote. 18:17, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

What you're saying is really selfish. You want it to change, but only to what you want it to change into, and if not then nothing. You rate those name as you see fit (WCI, TL, SR) but the poll will work by majority not rank. If in your example it will be 3-3-4 you assume it should have been 6-4 but it can also be 5-5 or 3-7. "Splitting the votes" work both ways and that's what makes it fair. Barto mafia family (talk) 08:41, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

The best thing to do right now is wait til we're further into the arc. 12:08, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

' You want it to change, but only to what you want it to change into, and if not then nothing." Yes. Exactly. Your name is Michael. You would prefer to have it changed to Thomas. But some people would rather it be changed to Weinerman. You could vote to change your own name, but only to Thomas. If other people are going to vote for Weinerman, you'd rather it not change at all. How selfish of you to do, with your own vote.

Now as I've said, I'm not going to be sour if what I'm voting for loses. Majority rules. But for my vote, my opinion, I don't want to indirectly support Sanji's Retrieval over my second choice, Totto Land, due to the conditional nature of the poll. And I don't want anyone to be in the same position regardless of whether they agree with my vote. What I'm saying does not give an advantage to any of the choices, it's just a matter of letting your second-choice compromise win. 12:35, September 24, 2016 (UTC)

Story Impact issues
One of the problems I have been noticing lately is people copying and pasting notes from the latest chapters and putting them into the Story Impact section, many of which obviously do not belong there. I think more monitoring and removing/merging notes like I did after last week's chapter might be a good way to put this back under control to help maintain the quality of that section. -Adv193 (talk) 19:47, May 26, 2016 (UTC)

That's because I wasn't sure which of the notes should for the impact for that chapter. 76.116.196.115 21:14, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

We should really keep it to the things that impact the entire storyline, not just this arc. Otherwise, it's getting rather complicated and cloggy. 19:32, June 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * I've also been merging notes whenever a newer one has some kind of relevance to an older one and keeping the new addition as short as possible. -Adv193 (talk) 16:23, September 18, 2016 (UTC)