Template talk:Beasts Pirates Gallery

Unknown members
None of those unknown members stood out in any way therefore I don't see any reason to clutter the template with them.

I agree, but I do think we should make portraits for the groups "Gifters" and "Pleasures" like we do for the Millions/Billions on the Baroque Works template. Also, I don't see any reason why Scotch is in "subordinates" instead of "other members. 14:49, November 28, 2015 (UTC)

Urashima
As seen in Chapter 915, Urashima seems to have a good connection to the crew when talking to Mouseman. Should we include him in "Allies and Affiliates"? Cdavymatias (talk) 13:42, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

He was seen talking with one member who isn't even high ranked one as far as we know. Let's not open a can of worms. Rhavkin (talk) 13:45, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

Rhavkin- Yes. Maybe we should wait until we see him having more contact with the crew. Cdavymatias (talk) 15:07, August 24, 2018 (UTC)

I agree, since the Beasts Pirates coexist with Wano residents we can't really put a guy as an ally just for having a conversation Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:08, August 29, 2018 (UTC)

Jack's Crew
There seems to be an issue with their status. Now, as for their pages, they can be edited as well, so they aren't reliable source. We know that the were alive when Zunisha struck the Mammoth, and we know Jack survived, so we don't have any reason to believe they didn't. As for the claim that they are DF users so they couldn't swim, they might have been saved by non-DF users, and we don't know what powers they posses to we can't really say that they didn't make it out, especially since we know for certainty that Jack survived\was rescued.

Basically we do not know their status, however, wiki rules say that we use unknown only when there is a reason to believe they died like Monet or Pound. Shipwrecked does not necessarily means died, and as a frame of reference, we did not say Raizo status was unknown when we found out the retainers were shipwrecked as well.

I say keep it as is until we see them again or someone say that Jack's crew died. Rhavkin (talk) 10:04, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

I think we have sufficient reason to say they're unknown. They're Devil Fruit users, and we've seen that Momonosuke, an artificial Devil Fruit user, isn't able to swim. So we can't assume that they can swim. Saying that they remained on the wreckage of the ships would be an assumption as well. Jack, by all accounts, should have died, but has proven to be an exception for reasons yet unknown (and he was actually marked unknown after the event until he was confirmed to be alive a few weeks later). So imo saying Sheepshead and Ginrummy are definitely alive when there's a good chance they could have been hit into the water is speculation. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 15:21, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

We shouldn't mark anyone who could have died for any reason as unknown. They could have been saved by other crewmates. Both Kin'emon and Kanjuro are actual Devil Fruit users and survived a shipwreck, and we don't know if the same rules apply to SMILE DF (Momonosuke ate Vegapunk's fruit, and he's far superior to Caesar). This isn't the first time we've seen a DF user fall into the water, and I don't remember anyone dying from it. Oda even saved Mr.3 with a "special wood". There far more reason to believe that they survived then not. Rhavkin (talk) 16:51, September 17, 2018 (UTC)

Except by all the natural laws established in the series so far, Sheepshead and Ginrummy sinking into the ocean is still a very likely option. They COULD have been saved, sure, but we don't know that. And SMILE fruits COULD allow their users to swim, but that hasn't been established and can't be the default assumption given that it would be breaking the rules we know about. And that's what unknown is for. When we don't know for sure one way or the other and there's a good chance it could have gone either way.

When Pekoms got shot into shark-infested waters, there was always the chance that the Sun Pirates would rescue him, but we couldn't declare that that would happen until it actually did; up until then he had just as much chance of drowning/getting eaten for all we knew. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:15, September 18, 2018 (UTC)

Wolf Arm Gifter Question
I don’t know why the wolf arm gifter is still in the gallery if we removed the others with no names. Either we should add them back in or delete the wolf arm. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 22:27, September 21, 2018 (UTC))

We already mentioned why. He had an important role. SeaTerror (talk) 08:27, September 22, 2018 (UTC)

drake is still a member of the crew until he is kicked out
the same thing was down for Vergo, Capone Bege ,Jinbe and Donquixote Rosinante until they were kicked out of there groups the former symbol could not be addedFacts over opinions 07:01, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

The whole point of that status is to let us know that he is actually undercover.--Opera298 (talk) 09:07, September 24, 2019 (UTC)

it is not needed it wasnt needed for vergo rosinante  or capone it isnt needed nowFacts over opinions  03:39, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

* those not mean he is undercover and isn't needed
we never put symbols for people  who we learned are undercover or traitors before  why do we need to now when we learned characters like vergo were undercover we didnt add no symbol to him  so why would drake be differnt. and even if we start now a new symbol ahould be added yo legend we shouldnt use a symbol already in use ex (*)Facts over opinions 14:32, September 25, 2019 (UTC)

If you want to put a new symbol of undercover and whatnot, then at least make it a legit thing before deciding what is the right symbol and what isn't. Take it to the talk page first for something like this, stop changing back and forth 100 times. 00:52, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

i took to the talk page and i told rhavkin to take to the talk page they chose not to listen to listen talk to them about  that. so explain to me this symbol * has only ever been added to character who it was unknown if they are still alive or not never has been used for a character who was just undercover or for there affliation   it wasnt used for vergo wasnt used for   Rosinante wasnt used for capone  or jinbe or kuma and  isnt used for stussy  so make it clear if we can use this symbol now for uundercover characters  or for any thing unknown ablut character let me know nowFacts over opinions  01:21, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

Kaido's position
Needs to be changed here too :) • Seelentau 愛 議 17:56, September 28, 2019 (UTC)

Minor Unknown Members
I think we should hold off on adding anymore unnamed members unless we continuously and consistently see them play a large role. Headliners are important and all, but at this point, there appears that there will be plenty more unnamed headliners shown. They shouldn't be added if they hold zero importance. Same for normal Gifters.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 16:19, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

gallery should be ordered by postion of power
numbers third highest group in beast piratesTo love this (talk) 22:30, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that the only instance they were mentioned alongside the other ranks of the group are in Chapter 978, where Queen goes from Waiters to Pleasures to Gifters to Headliners to Tobiroppo and then to Numbers. That's the "official" listing from Queen's mouth.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 22:34, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

chapter 979 lirteally reveals that beast pirates is a crew organized by strength the stronger you are the higher your rank the numbers are not stronger then all stars flying six or headliners the numbers are not even able to be promoted like other groups can (chapter 981) the only group they are stronger then are pleasures waiters and gifters and this only from the fact most of the gifters we seen easliy been knock around. also Queen mentioned Orochi Oniwabanshu and Big Mom Pirates when he was talking about those groupsTo love this (talk) 22:40, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

You cannot confirm that Numbers are weaker than Headliners. No one said that. Also I knew you were going to mention Orochi's forces and Big Mom's, but guess what? Those are not part of the Beast Pirates so it doesn't affect the argument.

I can confirm the numbers are weaker because a the headliners have people Basil Hawkins while only number shown is a drunk giant and by common sense the next people in line to join the flying would be the headliners not the numbers and your argument is based off how queen order of announcing them even though it has lirteally been said how the beast pirates is organziedTo love this (talk) 23:02, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

You like assuming stuff. You go explain why Queen would state everyone in order and then put Numbers on top of the rest. This is the ONLY instance Numbers are mentioned in relation to everyone else which is in order from bottom to top. You follow what the manga says, not what you think it says or what you think it means. Nightmare Pirates (talk) 23:12, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

Dude it is not assuming when manga lirteally says how they are orgainzed i do not understand how it is so hard for yiu to understand that. THE Hierachy of the beast pirates is given the numbers are bleow those three other groups accept it these are lirteally facts grom the manga. You Can not say Queen ordering of how he announced the group matters when he literally announced two other groups are that are/currently not even affiliated with them.To love this (talk) 23:19, July 28, 2020 (UTC)

Tobi Roppo have the chance to be promoted into All-Star, whereas the Beasts Pirates told Hatcha that he wasn't good enough to become a Tobi Roppo. 09:13, July 29, 2020 (UTC)

That I understand, and would support them being placed below Tobiroppo, but there is no indication they are lower than Headliners since their are ALOT of Headliners and they aren't exactly that strong.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 23:02, July 29, 2020 (UTC)

Tobiroppo are lirteally called the six strongest headliners what sense would it make if the numbers are higher then headliners but not the Tobiroppo and are not able to be promoted to the rank of Tobiroppo?To love this (talk) 09:12, July 30, 2020 (UTC)

Go ask Queen that, because clearly Queen did not mention Numbers after Gifters. Again, literally the only instance Numbers is mentioned in relation to others.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 06:48, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

or or better idea just read the chapter that lirteally says how ranks in the crew work and just think about the fact the flying six are called STRONGEST HEADLINERS not the strongest numbersTo love this (talk) 19:57, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Now what part of that means that average Headliners are stronger than Numbers. You keep mentioning Tobiroppo, and the conversation has gone way past that. You're just assuming how it works with no evidence. A bunch of "I think this means, so it must be true" mentality. I'm not refuting your claim that the crew is based on hierarchy, I'm simply stating the fact of what Queen said, which you conveniently just ignore multiple times or try to mention something completely unrelated to the merits of the discussion.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 22:01, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Dude again the managa lirteally tell us how this crew works  that not assumimg that is going off facts lirteally presented they can not be refuted the the flying six are next in line for all stars  the next in line  for there flying six postion is  a headliner  not a Number that is a fact. the beast pirates lirteally say number is not good enough to become a flying six another fact and the only time we seen them fight was when he took a swing and missed  while we seen sheephead  be able to surive in a fight against minks and match brook and basil hawkins able to match luffy and zoro in there fight a fact. your argument lirteally based off how queen announced them  at the Fire Festival (even tho  when he was talking about them he also added other groups that had nothing to do with the crew ) nothing else thats it your basically saying that if he  queen would said  pleasuers or waiters after the numbers  u would be here right now trying argue they are stronger then headliners. the organzation of the crew clear should be how the gallery is organizedTo love this (talk) 17:51, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

the new chapter list the leaders of these groups as former meaning groups are disbanded and all them joined as individual's
Orochi Oniwabanshu and Mimawarigumi leaders were introduced as former heads of there groups meaning both groups were disbanded and all them joined as indivualsTo love this (talk) 19:50, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Sengoku is the former Marines Fleet Admiral. Does that mean the Marines disbanded? No. Fisher Tiger is the former leader of the Sun Pirates. Did they disbanded when he died? No, they disbanded when Arlong wouldn't accept Jinbe. X Drake is a member of group stated to be former pirate captains, was it confirmed that the Drake Pirates disbanded? Are they not listed as a group in the gallery? They are. Rhavkin (talk) 19:57, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

are it is unknown what haooen to there crwws or if there postions in beast pirates are like drake hawkins or apoo
 * Sengoku was not the leaders of the marines and marines do not work like pirates
 * Drake has never been said to be former pirate captian Who's Who and Sasaki


 * the Orochi Oniwabanshu and Mimawarigumi are listed as disbanded on this wiki until that is change that is how things are and again the leaders of both these arw confirmed as as former leaders and even if they reconsidered active the only people who should be listed as members are Fukurokuju and Hotei the groups them selfs should be put under subordinate section or allies and affliates To love this (talk) 20:05, August 2, 2020 (UTC)


 * The Oniwabanshu and Mimawarigumi aren't pirates either.
 * We've seen Who's Who crew and they still dress and listen to their "former" captain. And Drake is listed as former in the TobiRoppo section in the Beasts Pirates page.
 * The wiki is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. If the groups are disbanded, the words of Fukurokuju and Hotei, and the numbers they specified are irrelevant, so you still can't claim Fujin and Raijin, for example, are part of the crew.

The groups are under subordinates, but instead of having a "subordinates crews" section and a "subordinates groups" section, they are all under subordinates groups, since a crew is a type of group. Rhavkin (talk) 20:20, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

The Oniwabanshu and Mimawarigumi are effectively disbanded. There is no evidence that Fukurokuju and Hotei somehow lost their positions prior to Orochi's death; if they did, how could they pledge their groups' allegiance to the Beasts Pirates? Their words also clearly indicate that all of their forces are now in the Beasts Pirates.

I personally think it is more informative and accurate to list the former Oniwa/Mima members on the gallery individually in a new section, rather than relegating them to the subordinate groups section. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:17, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Also, there is a difference between a subordinate crew and a group integrated into a crew. Take for example the Whitebeard Pirates: they had subordinate crews like the Maelstrom Spider Pirates who served the main crew but still operated relatively independently, whereas the Spade Pirates were not considered a subordinate crew as they were fully integrated into the main crew. The Oniwa/Mima were both fully integrated into the Beasts Pirates, and are no longer their own entities. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:39, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

U are literally the only one complaining about this Rhav, Mimawarigumi and Orochi Oniwabanshu are former organzations, besides the Hawkins Pirates or the On Air Pirates, who are subordinate crews like the Sun Pirates to Big Mom. Cracker-Kun (talk) 21:54, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sure they are "disbanded" in the essence that they are no longer an Oniwabanshu group nor a Mimawarigumi group of Wano. They should probably get their own section in this gallery once we figure out how exactly they fit in, but not in the Wano Gallery. I don't think that is best suited to lump them together in the Beast Pirates section in that gallery.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 22:08, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

We can't have it both ways. If their leader being former mean the group is disbanded, then them claiming to be part of the crew is meaningless. Rhavkin (talk) 15:18, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

There is a clear majority, they should be put individually. Cracker-Kun (talk) 19:32, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

wait so are we even sure they joined as members or if they joined as allies and why do they need there own section if they are members Samurai is not a divison or rank of any kind they should just be with other memebers23:09, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

theleaders proclaimed the loyality of the group, you can even see members of that groups not being happy with this. there is no point in listing all of them here, they should be included like the pirate crews, the ones that ahve themselfes a rank in the crew are in the template and the othere are under subordinate groups CharlotteSmoothie (talk) 00:49, August 6, 2020 (UTC)

No, Fukurokuju and Hotei are listed as "former leaders", so their groups don't exist anymore. Cracker-Kun (talk) 12:33, August 8, 2020 (UTC)