Talk:Nekomamushi

"King"
Calling him a "King" in his occupation doesn't sit right with me. "King of Night" is sort of a nickname, isn't it? Like Rayleigh is called "Dark King" and Roger was "King of the Pirates". It's not an authoritative position. It's clear that it's the Mokomo Dukedom, not the Mokomo Kingdom. And Inuarashi is the duke. Nekomamushi is called 'master', and even 'big boss' of Whale Forest. So, in my interpretation, he's more of a ruler in the sense that he's influential and has a lot of supporters, while the official ruler of Dukedom is Inuarashi. They both lead Mokomo during their respective shifts, but if they were invited to meet with the other World leaders, the Duke would go. 19:34, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Ahh, that looks better. 19:42, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Okay so the problem with this Duke/King business is that Oda is all over the place when it comes to sticking with one title, so this took me a while to process as well. To be clear, the terms he uses are 公爵 (Duke), 公国 (Dukedom), 王 (King), and 旦那 (Master/Old Man). The instances in which he uses "Duke" include: While the instances in which he uses "King" include: Now this is confusing as fuck, because in english, we have this concept that "King" is above "Duke". However, it should be noted that in japanese, the term for "King" (王) can also be translated as "Ruler", in which case these paradoxical statements listed above would all make sense.
 * Inuarashi's usual title
 * Country's title (Dukedom)
 * King of the Day/King of the Night (arguable just an epithet type thing)
 * Wanda's line "The Mokomo Dukedom is ruled by two Kings..."
 * Wanda's next line, "The official King of this country is Duke Inuarashi... but Master Nekomamushi holds an equal amount of power..."
 * Jack's response when he sees Inuarashi "The King.. of this country...?!"

To summarize, Mokomo is a Dukedom. Inuarashi is listed as the "official ruler" of Mokomo Dukedom, hence goes by the title "Duke". However in reality, Nekomamushi, though not official, is also seen as a ruler with equal status to that of Inuarashi, and together they are known as "The Ruler of the Day" and "The Ruler of the Night". 20:27, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

So are you suggesting we should just use ruler everywhere, if it means the same as king? 20:40, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

For everwhere we use "King" involving the Mokomo Dukedom, yes. 20:41, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

This may be just me, but the way I'm reading it is that Inuarashi is the official ruler of Mokomo Dukedom, whilst Nekomamushi is the unofficial one who acts at night. Kind of like a highly public underworld boss, like the yakuza. (Shadoguardian (talk) 08:08, December 14, 2015 (UTC))

Wouldn't ruler be 王者 and not 王? From my understanding, being the King of Night anf King of Day has nothing to do with who's the duke or master. Meshack (talk) 05:38, October 11, 2016 (UTC)

Ruler works for me.

21:22, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

How? Meshack (talk) 21:24, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Because an actual Japanese person said so. SeaTerror (talk) 23:00, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Being King of the Night or King of the Day has nothing to do with who's the Duke or the Master. Meshack (talk) 04:20, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how that has any relation to how we address the title. Ruler is the best choice to negate all of Oda's different title issues. 17:10, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

We should go for ruler. 17:13, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Going with ruler is best in this case 18:36, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Western Culture Trivia
So, apart from Nekomamushi looking significantly like the most prevalent design of the Cheshire Cat, it seems clear to me that his attitude and notably his eating lasagne is a reference to the famous Garfield. If anyone disagrees, I suggest we talk it out here as is the rule, instead of removing trivia without bothering to give a reason.

12:57, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

You mean look nothing alike at all? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat Hell he doesn't even look similar to the purple Disney version. Also the reason to remove the trivia was already stated multiple times and I wasn't the only one to remove it either. Plus everybody who did add that back was obviously the same person under multiple accounts since they are all new. SeaTerror (talk) 18:08, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

Apart from you being unable to use grammar - "based off" makes no sense and we don't use slang here - are you seriously suggesting that there is no similarity between a smiling cat in One Piece and arguably the most famous cat in literature, noted for being a cat with a smile (or at times a smile without a cat) ?

For argument's sake, here's a comparison:

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag62/stalhein61/Cheshire_zpsvvderq5o.png

Sure, they're not identical. Name me a character that is identical to what inspired them.

And arguably the second most famous cat in western culture, Garfield, is noted for eating lasagne and being fairly carefree. I can't believe you're arguing with this, especially since the trivia guidelines actually state that if you think a character is inspired by something, you can add it, just be prepared to debate it if others disagree. That does not mean you have the right to remove anything people add just because you don't think it's accurate.

18:53, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

Alright. So if you see that something is constantly being added back and deleted again, explain elaborately why in the edit summary. Not some shitty subjective arguments that can go both ways or vague lines as "I doubt that exists in Japan". Yes, this counts for all of us and since it didn't work, a talk page was justly opened. But seriously, I do not have to tell this to someone who has this yelled at his head for ages and got punished over and over again for not doing this. 19:10, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

Yeas, Garfield exists in Japan. It's basically everywhere at this point. 19:27, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

I could go either way with Cheshire Cat. Garfield, however, is hard to ignore. Lasagna, ST. A cat who likes lasagna. 20:02, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

This is the kind of problem we been having with Seaterror for so many years, I really wish he learns from his own mistakes and stop removing good trivias without any reasons other then "It's my way or the highway cause i'm smarter then you all!". And yes I have a similar attitude, please pardon me.

So I say we should leave in Garfield and Cheshire cat reference because it's very strongly applied.

Joekido (talk) 20:14, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

Ignoring Garfield the way that the Cheshire Cat trivia was worded was bad. It was implying that they do look alike when they look nothing alike on any of the designs. SeaTerror (talk) 00:54, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

You're saying that a smiling cat and a cat famed for smiling look nothing alike. I even put a picture on here for you. Do you need glasses?

02:00, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Your example shows a smaller sized cat and something that looks closer to a lion. SeaTerror (talk) 03:24, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Come the fuck on ST. It's about the grin, the grin that Nekomamushi has done a bunch and the Cheshire Cat is famous for. This isn't hard to get. 07:47, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Well, since ST isn't going to admit he's wrong, we may as well get an admin to make a decision on this.

13:22, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Well if you're going to talk about the grin you can clearly see that they also look nothing alike. Hell the Cheshire Cat doesn't even have fangs. SeaTerror (talk) 20:44, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

Let's just play hypotheticals here. Let's pretend that in the next chapter of One Piece, Franky says "If I only had a heart!". That would be a clear reference to the Tinman from the Wizard of Oz. Even though Franky and the Tinman aren't very visually similar. You could at least see the similiarities. They're both made of metal, and Franky's line would have referenced the signature of the world-famous Tinman.

Now, let's come back to reality. We've got a big cat with a gigantic grin. It's even the same, slim crescent shape. On it's own, that doesn't mean much. But consider that being a cat that smiles is THE signature of the cheshire cat. It's all he's known for, and he's very known for it. It's not guarunteed that Nekomamushi is a reference to it. But it's strong enough that we could say 'it may be' in the trivia and not look like asses. 21:02, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

The way I reworded the trivia, it said "this feature is similar to a famous cat". That doesn't say that the character is designed only around the famous cat, it says that they are similar. That isn't breaching any trivia rules we have, and makes a lot of sense when you think about the connections. I worded it as loosely as I could. But saying "might be based off", apart from being slang, is waaaay more definitive. You're saying that you disagree, but you actually wrote that you agree more.

21:10, February 1, 2016 (UTC)

We could poll this. That ought to be fun. 09:57, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

"Fun" is an odd word for a poll that would be everyone disagreeing with ST.

16:56, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

No, it'd be everyone against ST + Panda's ironic vote. 19:01, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, quick poll based on posts in this topic: in favour of keeping the trivia, we have me, AOD, Kaido, Ryu, Joe, and Panda; in favour of removing it, we have ST.

There's really no point taking this to a formal poll, is there.

19:55, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

I'm in favour of keeping the trivia. Also, I think Panda was being sarcastic about polling this. It looks like we have a clear majority so I will close this discussion now. 03:07, February 3, 2016 (UTC)

I know this is old but I think Neko is more likely based on the Disney version than the one from the book. They share a lot of similarities and Oda has stated in interviews that Disney is a major influence of his.73.160.150.140 18:43, February 22, 2016 (UTC)Random guy passing by