Forum:Opening Images in Galleries

Ok, lately people have been adding images from the anime openings to everyone's galleries. I and a few other users in chat don't think that it's necessary to have images from every single one. Especially when their appearance in the opening is no different from their normal appearance/outfit, or one that's already in the gallery. So I think that only appearances that are different from normal should be added to galleries (even the Straw Hats' galleries). Does anyone else agree with that? 02:09, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I agree, we don't need pics for every character for every anime opening. If we have a good anime pic, then we use that and ditch the opening pics, leaving them for the opening page itself. The only exception should be if a character has a significant physical change in the opening. 02:12, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

Obviously, if they aren't different in any way, it's pointless to add them all.

I'll agree that it is superfluous to have so many unnecessary images in the gallery of a character. Especially for the main characters that are always featured in every new opening. If there is no notable change in the appearance of a character it could count as duplicate of another image inside the gallery. MasterDeva (talk) 10:51, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

I also agree, there are far too many of them. It's just unnecessary. Does there seriously have to be a image of every opening and character in it? The only one really needed are the images that show different color schemes. 03:54, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Different apparal: Necessary. Same apparal: Not necessary. Off with their heads. 03:57, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

After looking at this page, I think I see a similar problem. We have manga pictures for multiple appearances when they're the exact same. I think these are in a few pages. These seem like the same thing as the openings images problem. 04:18, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

You're right, they do look similar and has multiple of them. We should make a different discussion about that. But while we're on that topic, I think we should keep the best and remove the others. 04:24, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Garp has one current, colored, manga image and one image as a child. We typically have one manga-colored image and one anime-colored image (if we have an anime profile pic, then there is no need), and I really see no problem with this. This is basically all we need, but for characters with multiple color schemes/physical changes in the manga, we should have pics for all of those. 04:36, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * At the time I posted that, Garp had an image from the Post-Enies Lobby volume and the Post-War volume. 04:40, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Is it nessary to have Opening Images in the Gallery with their appearance which is very similar to that within the storyline? As someone said, a image with different Colour Scheme would be better and more fitting. 16:30, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, it seems like we're all in agreement about images that are the same as their standard appearance (or any other images in the gallery). We should get rid of those now.

But what about images like these two?

Those may be the same appearance as normal, but those images are definitely unique to the openings and wouldn't have a place on any other pages. I say keep only one image like that in the galleries. Possibly two images if the character's face has changed physically/substantially after the timeskip, like Smoker's has. 17:49, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * If they wouldn't have a place on any other page, then delete them. Basically, we can just treat openings as regular anime pictures. 22:03, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * We dont even need this kinds of pics,they are utterly useless they serve no purpose,files like this shouldnt be posted,files are suposed to show important events and the chars appearance or showing something of some importance like attacks df powers etc...not how character looks like in a opening,i srsly dont get this. User:X-RAPTOR 22:11, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agree with X. It does not add any value to the page in my opinion.
 * Yeah, X is right. The images are unique to the openings, but they don't really add any knowledge aren't worth being in galleries. 22:30, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Judging by the lack of argument, I think it's ok to start clearing character pages of opening pics. Remember, only take out the opening pic if we already have a better anime alternative. If the file is not in use elsewhere, then we should mark them for deletion. I'm gonna wait a day to see if there is any protest, then we will start tomorrow. 23:04, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Let's leave at least one opening pic in the galleries. For example Apis. 23:06, November 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's the only picture in the Gallery, sure. But otherwise, get rid of them if they're no different. 23:08, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * if we already have an anime image, what do we need the opening one for? 19:31, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, it's been a day. I'm gonna start removing these images now. 03:40, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion 2
Now it seems to have started again, only this time it's in the actual opening articles...is there really a point to this? It just seems like a flood of unnecessary images. I think if anybody wanted to see how the characters looked in an opening, they'd look it up on Youtube or something. The character almost never look different anyways, so why are they being added again? 04:05, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I believe Geno is doing it to show what is in the opening. In my opinion, this is fine. 04:07, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Showing a bunch of different images from a 3 minnute video? That's really pointless. Anybody who wants to see it can just find it on Youtube or something. 04:57, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

We're a wiki. It's like saying anyone who wants to see see any image can just "watch the anime".

Bad mindset. 04:59, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

These are galleries. They're pictures of an opening, showing characters who look exactly the same as they do in the series. There's a reason why they're not in character pages, and the same reason should be why they shouldn't be in the opening pages. 06:03, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Gonna repeat myself.

We're a wiki. We provide all information. If somebody wants to see what pictures an opening holds, they can go to the opening pages and see for themselves. Understand? 06:45, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Look at Hikari e. Literally every single scene is shown now. I remember a case just like this on the We Go! page, where somebody uploaded even the fight scenes. It was taken down for the obvious reasons: It's unnecessary and takes up space. These openings aren't more than 3 minutes long. People can just watch them if they want to find the scenes. The anime is thousands of minutes long. If anybody wants to watch an opening, they can take a few minutes out of their life to do so. Nobody cares if a single picture of each scene is on a page. There's no reason to have them here. 06:49, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Let me also point out that we don't allow videos on the Wiki. Uploading every scene is pretty much the same thing except it doesn't move. If somebody wants to see what pictures an opening holds, they'll watch it. Why wouldn't they? These images serve absolutely no purpose. We provide information, yes, but these images do not provide any information. 06:53, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Gonna repeat myself. We're a wiki. We provide all information. I understand you don't think it's useful to yourself, and that you would just watch the openings yourself. The average AWC will be clueless or lazy and not want to go to youtube, and would rather come here if they want to see anything. There's no reason not to have these pictures on the pages themselves.

Videos are different from images. 06:55, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I see what I'm doing is progressive. Showasing the different events of each intro, to show the different scenarios and moments that go into them in 15 pictures or less is what I am using as a limit. As a wiki we must be as informative as possible. Words and pictures.

Genocyber (talk) 07:01, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

If every scene is going to be uploaded, you might as well upload a video. Why don't you upload a gallery of entire episodes, while you're at it? We know the openings exist and what's in the openings. It's not our problem if a couple people are too lazy to go to Youtube. It's a music video, anyways. There's virtually no reason NOT to go watch it. This isn't information. It's a clutter. There are some things that can be excluded. As a Wiki, we must be as necessary as possible. Look at the discussion above. There's no difference between putting these images on openings and on character pages. They're not necessary. 07:06, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Except they actually belong on the opening pages, because ya know, they are part of the opening.

Listen Nada. Just because you think it's easier to go to youtube, doesn't mean everybody does. This is a wiki, so every little bit of information should be provided. And no, we shouldn't have pictures of every single frame of an episode, because THAT would be a waste of space. 07:15, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Just because you think the average reader doesn't watch the openings doesn't make it true. That actually sounds ridiculous. A reader might see the opening and say "hey, another opening! I'm going to check it out." Nobody is going to say "oh wow, good thing this Wiki uploaded every scene of the opening. Now I don't have to watch it. I love this site." I'll say it again: We removed the opening images from the character pages because they're unnecessary. We also removed some We Go! images because they're unnecessary. You're underestimating the knowledge of an average reader tremendously. We're a Wiki. We provide information, NOT show every little scene. We don't need to see every scene of an opening. 07:23, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

We Go images are still there. Flawed answer. 07:25, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Did you not even read what I wrote earlier? I said somebody uploaded all the fight scenes in that opening. They were removed for being unnecessary. I even said in my previous post "some" We Go images. If you can't even read simple words, I'm starting to doubt you know how an actual Wiki reader thinks. 07:29, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah.. this is a waste of my time. If you're just gonna throw petty insults around, then you shouldn't be discussing this. 07:30, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I said one thing about doubting how you think a Wiki readers thinks. How am I throwing insults around? Earlier you even called the average AWC to be "clueless and lazy". Is that not insulting? Seems hypocritical of you, but that's beside the discussion. These images are still unnecessary. 07:35, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Both of you stop fucking around. Both of you stop throwing around petty insults at eachother and try and resolve this discussion like civilized human beings. &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 07:45, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't help. We're not throwing petty insults at each other. I even said that those things have nothing to do with the discussion. Please let this be the last thing that's off-subject. Discuss the images. Stop changing the subject. 07:49, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that you both need to cool down. At this point, it's basically almost escalated into a flame war. &#34;I should thank you. After all, it was you who taught me the purpose of all life...the purpose of life is to end.&#34; -Smith (talk) 07:54, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

If you're not going to contribute to the actual discussion, please stay out of it. You're just wasting time. I said it's beside the discussion and I said to stop changing the subject. You're not helping. It's rude.

Can somebody explain why opening images are in any way necessary to add to pages? Like I said before, they're easily accessible with Youtube or something. If a user wants to see the images of an opening, they'll watch it. Having every scene does not help. 08:08, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

They aren't necessary. What's next? Adding every single picture of every second? Well the amount of pictures we are adding for just a single song, such as One day, is too much. Some pictures I understand are use for other pages, but every single portrait in the song page? You could watch the entire video and enjoy the song while you're at it on Youtube or something. 04:53, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah Calu. I can see what you mean. I think we should compromise and just have the "key moments" of the opening. Stuff like "Robin's book", or "The ocean" aren't significant enough for their own images, but the Straw Hats and other characters that appear should be fine though. 05:08, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

If it's just key moments, I could understand (though it's still not completely necessary). Having every single scene, like in the Hikari e page, is just useless. 23:55, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I forget where I read this, but I think I read somewhere that pretty much recreating every scene of a video with still images actually goes outside the boundaries of "fair" use, and may actually be a copyright violation. I'll see if I can find more on this subject later, but if it's true, we probably shouldn't have these galleries. 18:05, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, pictures of key moments? I can see conflicts of this brewing, so let's just set fire to it already. Exactly WHAT is a key moment of the openings? 23:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I simply don't see the character images in opening as informations, if you do then every character who appears in the opening should be added, which is totally pointless. At this point I rather prefer posting the whole video, remember what the staff told us? If posting the video is actually copyright permitted, I'm all for it rather then uploading every single shot. But I guess most of the user are against it, so no video and no single character shots.

I'd rather just post the video Levi. Maybe instead of uploading directly to the wiki, we just create a youtube channel and host the openings on it, and then just hyperlink it to the page. 19:32, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

As far I know, you have to upload on youtube/other hosting site, you cannot upload it on the wiki, just embedded, though when you do it the file page will be created too. It looks like it's on the wiki but it's not.

Nah. You can upload directly to the wiki. The embedding is probably the best option though. 19:56, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

You cannot. Here an example of wiki with videos, they are all from youtube. You cannon upload directly on the wiki, Wikia simply relies on third parties to embed the player.

Actually, the only song I think should get a gallery is Adventure World, since it's different every airing. Maybe a slideshow? 23:53, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Didn't most of were against heavy uploads of opening images?

What do you mean Levi? 19:46, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I believe Leviathan's talking about Talk:We Go!, where somebody uploaded the fight scenes but was highly unnecessary and removed. I mentioned this earlier. 00:58, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

The fight scenes aren't there? They haven't been there for awhile. 03:03, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes we know. They were removed because they were highly unnecessary and just filled up the page over what actually is. We should do the same with the other images in the opening pages. 22:23, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I was talking about the two galleries in We_Go!, the name board and one piece logos.

Those have been there for over a year. I was just replacing the jpgs. I don't see a problem with them. 01:13, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, so are we all in agreement to leave out opening images? 00:05, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. 00:07, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Some should be allowed like the name board images. SeaTerror (talk) 05:09, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. The name board images are useful ST, so they should stay. The ones that should go are the "Robin knitting a sweater" pictures. 19:29, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well I find them pointless, just so you know. If everybody is fine with that so be it. I don't understand why they are a special case, though.

This has hit a deadlock. Time to throw up a pre poll and discuss it. 05:21, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Pre Poll Discussion
From now on, discuss here. 05:21, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

You forgot the option about keeping some. SeaTerror (talk) 05:44, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

"Keeping Some" is very vague. 05:49, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

Also, lmao Nada. Two polls so far that you've done that. 05:49, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

We would decide which ones later. SeaTerror (talk) 16:45, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

This poll is somewhat ambiguous... if we take it literally, "deleting all Opening/Ending Images" means that under no circumstances one can upload an image from an opening! The point of this discussion was about character galleries about outfits/appearances from the openings. So I think we should remark this. I'm even ok to leave one image of a kind to just get the general idea. Also, I don't understand the first option.

By that option Levi, I mean all images in the galleries on the openings, like We Are!. First option is linking a youtube video in the external links section to the opening. 03:03, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

You still forgot about keeping some images. SeaTerror (talk) 03:07, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, you forgot the option of keeping some pictures, such as We Go!. 03:25, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

How are the pictures in We Go "useful"? I have a problem with the phrasing of the poll unless that question can be answered. It's a pretty loaded poll option if one is "useful", because it makes the others inherently useless. 04:08, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

"Keep key images from the opening." We could determine what exactly key images are later if need be. 04:18, January 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * But then what's key? I'd have to have some idea of what a "key image" from an opening is before I vote on anything. 04:23, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

They're useful JSD.

Anyways yeah, we can specifically decide later, but key images are character portraits I guess, and maybe color spreads. But anything else needs to go. 04:26, January 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * HOW are they useful? I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, I just honestly cannot think of a way those images are useful, so I can't support them. I would love it if I could get a response that was more than "They're useful JSD." 04:34, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

That is entirely subjective. I see a lot of images that can go and some that can stay. Key images could be anything such as important scenes in the opening or whatever else like the We Go! images. SeaTerror (talk) 04:38, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

I still think we should change "Opening/Ending Images" with "character galleries about outfits/appearances". I think that was the point of the discussion, wasn't it? For example, colour spreads images are fine.


 * The anime versions of the color spreads are already used on the table here so I don't think we need those in the galleries. Also, this is a forum, and the currently in-effect Forum Rules require that the poll be two weeks long.


 * And I'm STILL waiting on an answer to my question of "How are the images in We Go! useful?" 12:38, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Nobody here got an answer and the poll still isn't complete due to the "keep some images" part missing. SeaTerror (talk) 19:06, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should remove that options, who wants to keep it has to explain what types of images are. We can also decide later what types to keep, but we should have already now a list of them.

We have to decide later. There are many good images besides the We Go ones that should stay but there are also ones that should go. SeaTerror (talk) 19:29, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
The poll has ended. It ended with a tiebreaker vote at 01:43:00 UTC on February 17, 2013. Useful images will stay, including all of the We Go! page.

1. Remove the images and add an external link to the openings.
 * 1)  06:31, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  06:31, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

2. Delete all Opening/Ending Images.
 * 1)  19:37, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  19:39, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  19:40, February 2, 2013 (UTC) I have yet to hear a good reason why they should stay.
 * 4) User:X-RAPTOR 19:50, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  20:21, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  20:59, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  21:32, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) Klobis (talk) 01:54, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  05:32, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  05:32, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

3. Keep all Opening/Ending Images
 * 1) Genocyber (talk) 07:05, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Genocyber (talk) 07:05, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

4. Keep useful images, such as the ones in We Go!. 5. Keep useful images and externally link to the openings.
 * 1)  21:09, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  21:12, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) SeaTerror (talk) 21:22, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 21:25, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:10, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Strawhat1 (talk) 13:57, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) One-Winged Hawk (talk) 21:11, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:14, February 11, 2013 (UTC) I would vote for  Keep all Opening/Ending Images  but it has no chance.
 * 1)   ☆ MDM ☆   (◕‿◕)   05:57, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 07:00, February 14, 2013 (UTC)zori
 * 1) My mom. CSCR (talk) 03:54, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Post-Poll discussion
Alright, we're keeping some images. Now will someone please tell me what the fuck "useful images" means? 03:52, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Stuff like in the We Go! page. It's stuff that's significant to the opening, but at the same time, not redundant (like Robin knitting sweaters). 04:55, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

You'll have to define what "significant" means. If it's something like those name cards being exclusive to the opening, there's another opening with those. 17:43, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Them being exclusive doesn't matter. What matters are images that important to the opening. In Share the World's case.. the name cards, the supernova montage, and a bit more is significant. 17:48, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, then explain how the We Go images are important and significant to the opening. 17:51, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

They're the key feature in the opening, along with the big view of the Sabaody and Fishman Island characters. The images are the most essential in describing what the opening actually contains. Also, don't try and complain about the poll result (it specifically states that we agreed the We Go! images were useful). 17:57, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

"it specifically states that we agreed the We Go!" that was an example and has nothing to do with what an useful image is, we are deciding that now. Don't try to add more meaning then there was in it. The only image "useful" in We Go! is the all-characters screenshot, in my opinion. All those logo/name boards image are completely useless. If we allow such images, in not time people will upload every character that appears in openings. So definitely no single-characters-galleries.

I'll assume that since English isn't your first language that you somehow keep misreading "such as the ones in We Go!." SeaTerror (talk) 20:33, February 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's playing on words. The first poll was meant to decide if keep or do not keep opening image, the second one was meant to decide what to keep. Saying that those images have to be kept because that line in the poll's option, is just saying something that wasn't said. If that's enough, what's the point of this discussion then, since we would keep them all? Then let me ask: which ones of We Go? It doesn't say all of them, so I vote to removing the galleries and leave only images like the all characters screenshot.

Why should "the ones like we go" be allowed in the wiki? 20:34, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

No need to bring rudeness in ST. It was worded that way because most people above that used "useful images" referred to the ones like the We Go! images. 20:35, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

I think only two or three people actually cited that as an example. Also, no one answered JSD as to how they were useful. We Go was simply an example, and is subject to all rules we develop from here on out. As for that actual rule, can we set a limit of, say, five images per opening, and then discuss which ones to use on the talk page? Images of each Straw Hat are unnecessary and are quite honestly the least distinct part of each opening. Images that reflect the time/events/characters of the current storyline are the ones that should be used. Just my two cents. 20:48, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

I proposed a poll last night for each image on the respective talk pages. There would be a poll for each image, and they all would last a week. THAT would be the easiest way, but nobody liked it. 20:50, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Establish what kinds of images we are going to have first. It will make everything go a lot easier. As I said above, the few images that best represent the current arc and events. 20:59, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

There are only 2 images on the We Go page that seems justifiably useful to me: The character panorama of all the FI characters and the image of the Straw Hats that's used in the infobox. Between those two images, I think there's enough for people to get an understanding of which Opening the article is about. The character title cards still seem useless to me, especially to have not even one, but two for every Straw Hat. If the opening can be identified with 2 images, why must we have 9 more images that are forgettable at best? 22:36, February 17, 2013 (UTC)