Talk:Episode Guide

Layout
Due to the fact that the Wikipedia's One Piece Episode List is receiving a major overhaul, and there are several people who liked the original layout and found it helpful, I've decided to move the format over here. Please feel free to make comments and suggestions about the layout on here! I'm also in the process of restoring some of the old information (e.g. placement of movies and specials), along with adding another page for Funimation episode titles. If you'd like to start the Funimation list, feel free to do so! (It's in the link from the top Navigation box, to "English Dub Episode Titles") I hope this new format is helpful to you guys. -- NorseFTX 15:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that the tables don't display properly when viewing from Internet Explorer 6; I haven't tested IE7 yet, but I'll try making a few changes to the templates to see if I can fix this. -- NorseFTX 96.251.19.138 14:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah! After testing it on Internet Explorer 7, the borders do seem to work fine.  On that note, I think I'll just leave it the way it is right now.  To fix the borders for IE6, several cumbersome edits have to be made that may increase the size (in KB) of the page, so I'll leave it as is. -- NorseFTX 15:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Mhm, I also prefer the original layout than the new format on Wikipedia. I think this format is much more convenient and easier to read through than the new layout there. I also like how you placed the movies in the corresponding part of the anime, that way people new to One Piece can watch out for spoilers and such...
 * How about making a different color or notation for filler or half filler, without having to spoil oneself on episodes? There are some episodes (like 61) that are half filler, but one wouldn't know that unless they clicked the plus sign. Similarly, there are fillers in the middle of some arcs like Arabasta and post-Enies Lobby that one might want to skip without having to click to open the episode description.

Thank you so much for putting this here. The guys at Wikipedia are complete nazi douchebags.
 * Since when are they Nazi? I agree that they're douchebags but.. Anyway, thanks for putting this here and keeping it up to date.


 * They're nazi's because they won't even allow a link to this page. They claim it adds nothing to their article! They don't have story Arcs but they think that's "Fancruft" They don't tell you what episodes were made up by the anime (fancruft), they don't tell you when the episodes aired originally, or anything this page does with the movies and specials.  All most of us on Wikipedia want is a fucking link to this page or one like it.  Ergo, Nazis.
 * Nazi is a bit strong of a word, but they definitely are a bit overly up-tight about how the regulations and the "Manual of Style" thing works at wiki. I think they really do mean best, but by strictly following the rules, they end up doing more harm than help.  They are following the rules, though, so it's not like they're "wrong".  I was just worried that we'd lose the old version, we'd be left out in the cold without access to the better format for the sake of their "rules", so I brought it over here.  I'm glad you guys are finding it useful! It makes the hours it took to learn about templates worth it. =P -- NorseFTX 01:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Why are the movies placed where they are? It's not when they aired, movie 2 aired a month after the entry below it. It's also not where they slot into continuity, because movie 2 is posted in the middle of the Gunkan Island arc, but doesn't have Apis or Ryuuji in it. What is the meaning of having movie 2 posted between episodes 56 and 57 and, I assume, the placement of the other movies?

filler arc's
I think that filler arc's should be treated better.what I mean is,filler battles are still battles,filler charecters are still charecters,and 3 of most importantly,filler arc's are still arc's.67.87.235.185 01:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)luffymonkey


 * They are called Filler Arcs for a reason. They have nothing to do with the story. They are non-canon. Meaning that the stories do not appear in the manga and should not be considered part of the true story of One Piece.


 * Filler tells you how we treat them. They carry a different amount of weight to actaul storyline. One-Winged Hawk 13:20, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Format
Does anyone know what the heck is going on with the format lately? I've tried several times to update the episode summaries for the most recent episode, but all it does is mess up the table. This has never happened before, and I have no clue how to fix it.

130.64.34.228 13:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC) Crossword

About the episode pages themselves...
Why are the short blurbs about the episode statistics called "statics"? It isn't a real word, it seems to be a mistake spelling of statistics, and the word static means "not moving." Is it okay if I change that to "statistics"? --Spandass 16:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Oz to Oars
Oz have been changed to Oars in their respective pages, but there are episodes with "Oz" in the name, should it be changed? Zororonoa

Straw Hat Separation Side Story
Why is this being merged into the Amazon Lily arc? I mean, the Straw Hat's Separation Serial WAS a Manga Title Page Arc, just like the Buggy and Coby Side Stories. It even says on the page, "Straw Hat's Separation Serial are the series of cover pages that tells what happened to the other eight Straw Hat Pirates after the crew was sent away on the Saboady Archipelago by Kuma." Note the key phrase, "series of cover pages." Sure, the Buggy and Coby side-stories were only 2 episodes, and the Separation Arc is 4, but that doesn't change its origins, now does it? LazerWulf 08:50, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Those anime episodes don't show the cover stories, they only show the pages that covered them before Luffy arrived in Impel Down. For the Straw Hat Separation Side Story to be listed, there have to be anime episodes that cover the cover stories.


 * An episode showing Sanji being captured and converted by the Okamas.
 * An episode showing Robin escaping and being rescued by the revolutionaries.
 * An episode showing Franky discovering Vegapunk's house.
 * An episode showing Usopp becoming fat.
 * An episode showing Chopper running away from the natives.
 * An episode showing Nami witnessing Weatheria science.
 * An episode showing the cultists showing their underwear while Brook writes a song instead.
 * An episode showing Zoro and Perona exploring.


 * There doesn't necessarily have to be 8 episodes. Some of them can be combined. The point however is that there has to be episodes showing these content. Mugiwara Franky 09:13, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, but I still don't get why they have to be merged into the Amazon Lily arc, since these episodes are just as distinct from that arc as the Buggy and Coby episodes were. And by "the pages that covered them before Luffy arrived in Impel Down" do you mean that they only cover the events that happened before Impel Down? Since the Separation Serial covers events that "all take place during Luffy's 3 arcs; the Amazon Lily arc, Impel Down arc and Marineford arc," and the anime is just now getting to Impel Down, isn't it possible that there will be more episodes later that cover the events you listed, since, technically, those events haven't happened yet (by the anime timeline)? I still think these episodes should be given their own section, since they do cover at least part of the Separation Serial, but maybe it should be qualified with a "Part 1" or something. LazerWulf 10:07, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * The Separation Serial refers to the Straw Hat cover stories. The flashbacks that are shown of the Straw Hats before Luffy enters Impel Down aren't exactly part of the serial as they are not cover stories. They are in a way mini events that happened during Luffy's time in Amazon Lily. In the manga, they are a few panels depicting where the rest of the crew landed. In the anime, they were slightly elongated mostly by filler content. Lengthwise, both manga and anime depictions are relatively short.


 * There however may be a possibility of the cover stories being depicted in the anime. If the anime does, those episodes that cover content found in the cover stories would be justifiably called the Straw Hat Seperation story or something along those lines. Mugiwara Franky 10:22, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I still think these episodes should be separated from the Amazon Lily Arc, though. Could you justify labeling them as the "Nakama's Whereabouts Side Story (Filler)"? Since it technically is a side story, and not part of the Amazon Lily arc, and it's "mostly filler". LazerWulf 10:39, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * While they're a side story per say, they aren't a side story like Coby's or Buggy's. Calling them a side story alongside with Coby's and Buggy's will only confuse people into thinking that they're the Straw Hat cover stories. Also while the episodes are elongated with filler, they aren't exactly filler. Parts of the episodes are filler but the general idea portrayed within them is canon.Mugiwara Franky 10:56, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I can see where the confusion might come from, and I guess it doesn't help matters that the Separation Serial page says "These arcs are also featured in and expanded upon in the One Piece anime." (That line might need some clarification, if I do say so myself.) However, I still stand by my original assertion that these episodes should be grouped separately from the Amazon Lily arc.


 * I'll admit that these episodes are hard to qualify. They're not Side Stories exactly like Buggy's and Coby's, but I don't think they deserve to be called their own Arc (though I believe they had been called an Arc in an earlier version of this page). They're not precisely filler, but their source isn't completely from the manga, either (like some of the Davy Back Fight episodes). Maybe call it the "Nakama's Whereabouts Interlude"? But, still, it needs to be called something. LazerWulf 13:02, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

I see where your confusion comes from. That line in the separation serial was apparently a mistake created when the episodes were slated to appear. Many people speculated back then that the episodes would also cover the cover stories. This is also kinda the reason why they were given a separate division in this page.

These events in the manga were kinda a small footnote placed at the end of the Amazon Lily arc. While the anime elongates them like it does with manga content from time to time, they're still a small footnote. Their episode titles kinda separate them enough. However in a big table that divides every episode per saga and arc, they kinda don't warrant a division.Mugiwara Franky 13:21, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Two proposals
1.I think it's neccesary to denote the OVAs with a different color then the TV specials since they were not aired at all. 2.What about coloring the filler episodes with a distinct color? El Chupacabra 12:36, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * There's actually only one OVA per say so a different color for one entry maybe a question mark.
 * That's abit of a question, some episodes are mostly filler while others consist of both filler and canon.

Mugiwara Franky 14:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * The OVA was made by a different animation studio then the rest of the anime. In my opinion it has even more in common with the movies then with the TV specials since it was not shown on TV. However, I think we can't throw it in one pot with the specials or with the movies, and therefore it requires an own color. El Chupacabra 12:03, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

4Kids and Funimation
Should we copy the "Episode List" section form the 4Kids Entertainment article and the "DVD and Blu-Ray Releases" section from the FUNimation Entertainment article into this article? I think it would be very good. El Chupacabra 16:19, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's getting rather big already without the addition of English dub episode titles in it. 4kids is over but with the way that Funi is going, they're most likely going to do the entire series. So that's going to be three long lists of almost identical content. Considering that there is a possibility that Funi would drop the series and another company would pick up the series from the start, that's going to make problems a bit more hectic.


 * The page probably should just note down the Japanese Episodes and not the dubs just so not to strain it too much.Mugiwara Franky 16:29, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think they should be copied in order to present the alternate names and in case of Funimation, the division into seasons, so the lists will be not identicla. El Chupacabra 15:15, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * While the names will not be identical, that does not change the fact that the lists will be identical in content. It would kinda be like having two lists of fruits in two or more different languages. One list of fruits would be named in English. The second list would be named in German. The third and so on would be named in other conceivable languages. A bit really redundant. The name is different but the meaning is the same. It kinda thus would be easier to just have the lists in separate pages as content would at least not be redundant in a single place.


 * Besides this, aren't the respective pages of the dub lists working for them in listing down the episodes. While this is clearly copying, it sounds to an extent almost like a proposal to merge all the lists together. I mean if a person can get the information in one place, why bother looking another place that has less.


 * This is kinda like with case with the chapters and volumes. Having another list of chapters arranged in a different way seemed rather redundant when you can find the same the information in the first list. The only difference was the arrangement to an extent. If you combine the three episode lists together, you make the other lists redundant. Why would people look in a page that just lists down the episode titles of Funi when they can look at a bigger page that lists down both the Japanese and Funi titles. The bigger page would provide more info and the other one would be lacking.Mugiwara Franky 16:00, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, these three lists are only partially identical. The one on this page gives the translation of the original name, the japanese airing date and a quick overview. It groups the episodes by arcs. The 4Kids list gives the American airing dates and shows which episodes were combined. The Funimation list arranges the episodes by DVD which are grouped by Season and Voyage. It also shows who commented which episode. And it has images, that's something this article lacks. If you think that it will make the other redundant, we can move them completely to this page, andnot just copy them. Some people complained that the articles on 4Kids and Funimation are too long. The Funimation episode list was originaly a separate article (and actually it still exists because I promised Drunk Samurai not to nominate it for deletion without his agreement). El Chupacabra 17:02, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * For images, not every article needs to have them. Images are nice but if they are used just for decorational purposes then they are abit useless. You can have a good page that has no images at all and you can have a bad page that is nothing but images as well.


 * Considering that there have been complaints on 4kids and Funi's pages on how long they are, merging their lists here would just make a bigger problem. Taking large amounts of info from two pages and merging them together with a third page with huge if not bigger amount of info does not solve anything.


 * Putting the 4kids and Funi lists is a proposal made in good faith but it really only puts weight on an already heavy list.Mugiwara Franky 17:55, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

If you want images, seasons and pieces then divide the list according to Japanese DVDs seasons. Which are different from Funimation and that is one problem that you on purpose ignore. Tipota 18:04, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * So in other words, apart from the already large list arranged by arcs and sagas that notes down the air date and japanese names for episodes, the large list of 4kids that has their own names and episode numbering, the large list of Funimation that not lists their dubbed episodes by DVDs but also contains image, the large list of the Funimation simulcast episodes (in case people forgot), we have to also put in a list that arranges the Japanese episodes via the Japanese DVD seasons and their images as well. That's starting to sound way too much for this page to handle even if it was all organized in a clever way. And that's only taking in account for the episodes we have. If One Piece has at least double the amount of episodes in the future, then the page is going to be too much to handle.Mugiwara Franky 18:24, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would like to add both the Japanese and the Funi episodes, in order to have a page where reades can compare the two differnt divisions, somthing that does not exist. And the page will NOT become too long. It is currently 229,514 bytes long. The article on FUNimation Entertainment has 37,959 bytes and 4Kids Entertainment is 22,896 bytes long. I want to copy parts of these articles, not the entire pages. I think that after the merger this page will stay at the second place in the ranking, behind Monkey D. Luffy (294,142 bytes). Of course the list will grow with the progression of the anime, but the other articles on characters, organisations etc. will grow as well. You had similar concerns about the merger of the List of Chapters into the Chapters and Volumes article, but as you can see it didn't "boost" the page. El Chupacabra 16:37, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the List of Chapters, you provided an alternative per say. Not the entire page just the main points. For this one, the parts of the articles you are asking for however are very long and are arranged differently. The 4kids arrangement is wonky for starters. The Funi arrangement, while more complete to the Japanese, is arranged differently via seasons.


 * Maybe because I can't see how you're gonna solve the problem so that all the necessary content would fit, but all I'm thinking of what the plan might be is dumping differently arranged huge lists and other content into a page that's already oversaturated. For comparing the different names, maybe tweaking how the article is arranged could work at least for Funi to an extent. It however couldn't work for the 4kids titles. After a certain point, their list is no longer compatible to that of the original Japanese.Mugiwara Franky 17:09, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll try to explain what I intend.
 * 1. The Funimation name should be added to the episode sections behind the Japanese name.
 * 2. The 4Kids episode list should be copied without alterations in order to show their arrange and episode names.
 * 3. A new section should be created for the Japanese and Funimation DVD releases. If the Funimation names will be included in the episode boxes, then the voyage boxes will not double the names but look exactly like the boxes in the "Chapters by Saga and Arc" section of Chapters and Volumes, saying just "Episodes X to Y". If you think that adding the Funi names into the episode boxes will make the article too complicated I will just copy the entire "DVD releases" section form Funimation.
 * Do you understand my plan now? El Chupacabra 13:00, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * You just want to create a big redundant list with multiply translation per episode you probably forgot that Funimation will change the episode title for edited end simulcast episodes; (Current status) 116+ episode with 3 different translations and 4 release dates this is redundant and confusing. Can you give me one good reason why not to include the 4Kids title on the main episode list? A copy of 4kids list here makes the 4Kids page totally unless, and the list (4kids) can provide a good explanation about episode order without copied here; I already link to Japanese episodes. Also can you provide a visual example how you divide DVD seasons/arc. not to remind you the page size. Tipota 14:19, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

For El Chupacabra


 * 1) The Funi names can be worked in as said since Funi's pretty much aligned properly with the Japanese version. It might look out of place in some places though. There's also the matter with the Funi dub and simulcast names. While Funi's backing up the simulcast, there may might be a slight chance that the titles of the episodes when dubbed could be changed. These problems however maybe ironed out for the moment.
 * 2) The 4kids list may put stress on the page really especially due to the wonky numbering as stated. It's also kinda why it wasn't included here in the first place as stated in the top of this page.
 * 3) The Funi and Japanese DVD releases may require a different page altogether to an extent as there might be problems. Unlike with the Volumes in the Chapters and Volumes page, the DVD's of both Funi and the Japanese I think maybe completely arranged differently. A DVD from Japan may contain more or less episodes than that of Funi's. There's also the case of how many DVD's they have altogether. Japan certainly has more DVD's currently, however when Funi's gotten to a point that's significant, the number of DVD's in both versions maybe just as wonky as those of 4kids.

In relation to all 3, I kinda have to point out that the page was and is currently designed to accommodate just a single large list of episodes. It's design could be altered I guess, however it maybe putting too much especially considering some of the additions proposed.Mugiwara Franky 14:27, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * For Tipota


 * I think you have some points there. The most convincing is a little realization. I didn't exactly thought about it before but Funi really does have more than 1 set for it's dub names. There's the edited TV version names which follow 4kids standards and there's the unedited DVD version names.Mugiwara Franky 14:32, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's also 4kids explanation as you pointed out Tipota. Copying just the list of episodes, would be kinda confusing to some without the explanation. A person who sees the list without an explanation will wonder to an extent such as why an episode like Episode 50 Avalanche! exists in the first place.Mugiwara Franky 14:37, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * JP DVDs: 2 (rarely), 4 (rarely) or 3 episodes per DVD(pieces).
 * Episode 116: Japanese season 4th; Funimation 2nd.
 * Also the Japanese version divides some seasons into two parts. (Arabasta, Skypiea)Tipota 14:44, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I think this page should be similar to the Chapters and Volumes page and show both the division of episodes by Sagy/Arc and their division by Seasons/DVD volumes. This section will look similar to the "DVD and Blu-Ray Releases" section of FUNimation Entertainment. However, if the Funi uncut episode titles will be added into the boxes, it will not show the complete list but just the range of the episodes. The Japanese DVDs will be arranged in the same way, according to their division. This will be two lists, forming two sub-sections. There will be Section:Japanese DVD releases and Section:Funimation DVD releases. The reason not to include the 4Kids title into the main list is their way of creating episodes out of many japanese ones. That's the reason why I want to copy their list as a new section. It will show the names used by 4Kids and the Funi edited version. Only the name of the uncut Funi episede should appear in the episode box.El Chupacabra 14:50, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * The DVD division sounds nice but it really sounds more for another page. The 4kids list kinda does need some bit of explanation. Simply writing a list without an explanation gives some question marks. Also considering you're adding the Funimation edited names as well in the same section, it might really be a bit too much.


 * For just showing the uncut Funi Episode title, it kinda makes the list abit lacking in a certain way. Alongside the reason as providing a page that shows the name differences of the various episodes, another person may theoretically opt for providing a page that shows the different air dates between the different dubs. There's also the case that another person would want to place the other Funi episode titles in the mix as well since it allows users to be able to differentiate all the titles more easily.


 * Looking at the proposal it kinda deviates the main purpose of this page abit. It's main purpose is to list down the episodes that come out from Japan. Giving it an option such as allowing people to differentiate the different names of the various dubs is a nice addition, however it best works if all the names are properly arranged in the same manner. The 4kids problem kinda relates to this. Forcing people abit to compare a 4kids name to what the original name of an episode was by going up and down in vastly different lists is abit non-user friendly.Mugiwara Franky 15:11, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you think that the main purpose of this article is merely to list down all all episodes, then it is already deviated, beacuse this page already has some additional information, e.g. the air date or a brief summary for each episede. And it does group episodes by Saga/arc. However, the division of Episodes into Seasons/Volumes doesn't obey this division. Therefore it would be good to give it as a section. It would be somehow similar to the Chapters and Volumes page which has a list of all chapters by volumes and a table showing the division of chapters in Sagas and Arcs. However, I don't think that a separate page for the DVD releases would be better then a section in this article. Why do you fear big size? Is a article of 270,000 bytes automatically worse then one of 229,514 bytes? El Chupacabra 15:27, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the air dates and the summaries, they kinda cooperate well with the given list and how it is arranged. They both relate to the same list and can be added without much hassle especially. It's not like one episode of one single dub has several different airdates and summaries.


 * For the Saga and Arc divisions, they are there in order to help navigate the various different episodes. If they were not there, they just have one big list that people would have trouble with. A list of anything technically needs at least one easily arrangeable form of divisioning to get the main point across.


 * For the episodes in entirety, their page kinda can't be arranged in the same way the Chapters and Volumes page was handled. One is a list of that has been constant in arrangement in all versions to allow additions. The other however is so jabbled up in all the different version with different arrangements, titles, episode numbers, and etc. that all of it can't be fit in one single page properly and fairly.


 * For the DVD's, a page would not be big or any different from a section in this page indeed. It however allows a less constricted user friendly environment for not only the list to be properly maintained but also for the subject to be expanded upon. I mean for the Japanese DVD's at least, some people would want to write about them.


 * In regards to big size, it's kinda how you look how a page would expand. For character pages, sections could be summarized. The size of a character page can thus vary depending on how it's handled. For constant lists like an episode list on the other hand, everything kinda needs to be noted as it is a list. You can't take out sections in a list as it will only creates blanks. In other words a list will only become bigger and bigger.Mugiwara Franky 15:53, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Funi uncut names will cooperate with the given list as well. It would be just one more line in each box. I have an idea how to fit it properly into the page. I tried to explain this. There will be two fixed lists: One for the Japanese DVDs by Japanese seasons and one for Funi DVDs Funi seasons. Each list would grow with the release of new DVDs. However, other lists will grow as well, for example Mythbusters. In the eyes of a reader, they have a simialr length. And Character articles will grow as well. A good article on a major character will be quite long, and grow with the progression of the story. Othrewise it becomes a stub. El Chupacabra 16:22, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * The more different sections and parts you put in a list, the more they would demand if they are lacking in some areas. One is like what is pointed out by Tipota. If you put the 4kids list in, it would demand some explanation. I've seen the list and the explanations above really help boost it. Another is the episode names, simply putting the Funi uncut names is lacking especially if the purpose is to differentiate tittles. The simulcast episodes would require to be let in as well as they are part of Funi's choice of titles in a sense. The DVD section also in fact requires more if implemented. Apart from Funi and Japanese DVD's, 4kids apparently also has DVD's as well.


 * For Mythbusters, it is a different matter. The list grows but does not deviate too much in it's basic sections and arrangement. It gives at least one types of division that divides the various myths based on content and misconception. It does not give another type saying that the various myths can be arranged in another way.Mugiwara Franky 16:41, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * But that's the point. Episodes can be arranged by Arcs as in this list, by Japanese seasons or by Funi seasons. We already divide them by Japanese seasons, see Category:Seasons. I think this page should present all the three possible divisions. However, the divisions by seasons and the list of 4Kids episodes would be just supplimentary, the only change to the existing part would be the addition of Funi titles. El Chupacabra 16:56, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

"Only the name of the uncut Funi episode should appear in the episode box." You are kidding right? Why you banned simulcast and edited? It is obviously that your Personal Opinion is different than mine and eventually you turn back to your original idea to copy-paste 4Kids and Funi lists here. If you do that you need to copy the entire page to provide an explanation to readers.

Some additional problems:
 * 1) Japanese seasons do not include any Special episode; you need new lists for specials, movies and OVA’s. The current Chronological Order will be ruined
 * 2) Japanese DVDs(Feb 3, 2010) are 84 behind the anime and will be 85 next month; they release 3 episodes per month instead of 4 episodes. You understand that the list with no season division will grow up.
 * 3) Big size = Browser Delay/Crush/Freeze Tipota 17:05, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * For El


 * The list can indeed be arranged by three different but that doesn't mean you have to include every type of division in dividing stuff. The division of the episodes in this page was made in order to better find the different episodes. You slightly don't need a small section that tells people how to divide the whole page in another way. It's abit redundant as it serves somewhat no purpose.


 * We do indeed divide the episodes by seasons in a category. But that doesn't mean we should list down this type of division just because it is there in a page that is saturated by a more prominent way of dividing. Besides based on this category, we can divide the episodes by Anime Art directors too. If you want to show a page that shows the various different ways you can divide a list, this has to go in as well.


 * The Funi titles are what you are really after in the long run. They can't stand without the other names as without them it is not a list that shows difference in name titles. Maybe a different page altogether that just shows the difference in names altogether would be best as such a list can't be easily incorporated in this one.Mugiwara Franky 17:22, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The division by animation directors is less suitable for a list because the episodes made by the same director do not follow each other. However, the names of the director can be included into the episode box. If you think that incorporating the Funi names into the boxes would be too difficult, we should just copy the boxes from the Funimation article. There are some reasons to add the DVD lists. 1. there are people who whatch One Piece on DVD. 2. The OVA were releasd only at DVD. 3. This wikia lacks a list of japanese DVDs by seasons. 4. This article is the best place for this list. El Chupacabra 15:04, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Copying the entire box and list sections of Funi dub, 4kids, or any other dub (the Odex one in case people forgot) is a serious load addition. It would seriously put too much on a page that is already heavily loaded and is expected to become more as the anime goes on. I mean have you actually given a real good thought on how the page will be with all these proposals. Will it be user friendly as in helping users navigate? Will be useful additions or will it be redundant? Will it be really be worth the extra downloading time. It's really asking too much just for the sake wanting a page that shows the difference of episode names across the various Japanese and English dubs. Merging stuff together can be good but it can't work if it is too constrained.


 * For the DVDs, since we really do need such a list, the best course of action based on the situation of this page is to really make a new article called List of DVDs. It's not that farfetched of an article. What is wrong with having it as a separate article? Is it because it be a stubby looking page? Is it because people might not find it? Is it because such a page would lack other things like Japanese airdates for the episodes? A list that shows the DVD's, most specifically the Japanese, would be a welcome addition. However it would not be of any use, if people can't find it or even expand it if it is in a small section of a very crowded page.Mugiwara Franky 16:42, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if you all think that a separate aricle for DVDs would be better let's try it. However, the question on 4Kids episodes is not solved. It's not about DVDs but about a slightly different arrange of episodes. I still think that it would be useful to add this list to this page. It's really not big. El Chupacabra 16:51, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Official Japanese Seasons
Is there any way this episode list can be edited to include the official Japanese Season Designations? I'm not talking about a complete overhaul, just instead of "The East Blue Saga" Make it
 * "Season One: The East Blue Saga"
 * "Seasons 2-4: The Baroque Works Saga" and then put the spots where Seasons 2, 3, and 4 begin. (2 on Reverse Mountain, 3 on Drum, 4 on Alabasta)
 * "Seasons 5-6: The Skypiea Saga" (5 is all the Filler, 6 is Jaya and Skypiea)
 * "Seasons 7-9: The CP9 Saga" (7 is G8 and the DBF, 8 is W7, 9 is Enies Lobby and Ice Hunter. Yes, Toei considers both G8 and Ice Hunters as part of CP9)
 * "Seasons 10-Present: The Whitebeard War Saga (10 is Thriller Bark, 11 is Sabaody, 12 is Amazon Lilly, and 13 is Impel Down.)

All of this comes from the "One Piece-Pia" guidebook. I just think it would be a nice addition. The list could stay exactly the same as it is right now, you'd just have to change the header information for each of these Sagas/Arcs. I'll do it if you'll let me.DemonRin 07:19, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello? Can someone comment? DemonRin 09:16, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * According to this page there are 120 DVDs. It was said above that each has 2 to 4 Episodes, but which episode is on which disc? We need to find it out before we create the article. El Chupacabra 16:51, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have already added that information on episode pages Tipota 17:05, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. El Chupacabra 17:11, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Goat Island/Rainbow Mist
Are they considered part of the Baroque Works or Skypeia Saga? The Pope 05:31, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would put them into the Skypeia Saga because Robin is now a strawhat and not an antagonist. Besides, if we include them inot the Baroque works saga, it has 10 arcs andSkypeia has only 3. Putting them into the skypeia saga would make the sagas more equal. El Chupacabra 16:01, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * They normally get counted as a seperate arc of their own, as do many fillers. they don't usually count towards anything in the eyes of many fans so I kinda guess they don't really belong here too. But if I had to, I'd actually divide them in two with the first half belonging to the Alabasta and the latter Skypiea. One-Winged Hawk 16:05, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * For the filler, in terms of saga, I would probably place it in Skypiea rather than Baroque Works. For the Baroque Works Saga, it kinda truly ended after the Straw Hats left Arabasta with Baroque Works defeated and all. Even in the anime, it felt like the whole saga ended there even with the filler. The filler felt more like an extension of the beginning of Skypiea rather than an extension of the end of the previous Saga.Mugiwara Franky 17:51, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Streamline the Episode Titles?
I just took a look at some of the episode titles, and I realized something. The FUNimation titles are 95% accurate, and in fact are MORE Accurate in some areas than what we have here now. Is it possible we can streamline the episode listings and change it so the episodes are listed with FUNimation's uncut titles? Now, I know some of you don't like anything English One Piece, so we could even use more "Japanese" terms in place of the English terms (Like "Nyaban Brothers" Vs "Meowban Brothers", etc) But, I think there definitely needs to be a change since a lot of these titles are currently the K-F Titles (I think) and are actually somewhat off of what's really being said. Case-In-Point
 * Episode 8 - Title used here - "Who Will Win? Showdown Between the True Powers of the Devil!"
 * Episode 8 - Romanji Title - "Shōsha wa Docchi? Akuma no Mi no Nōryoku Taiketsu!"
 * Notice the bold parts. The Japanese title says "Akuma No Mi" That's clearly "Devil Fruit" and not just "Devil" (Akuma)  Now...
 * Episode 8 - FUNimation's Title - "Who is the Victor? Devil Fruit Power Showdown!"

Yes, that's FUNimation's title being MORE accurate than what is written here. And it's not the only one.
 * Episode 31 - Title used here - "The Most Wicked Man of East Blue, Fishman Pirate Arlong"
 * Episode 31 - Romanji Title - "Higashi no umi saiaku no otoko! Gyojin kaizoku Āron!"
 * Notice the bold parts. The Japanese title says "Higashi no umi", not "Īsuto Burū" which would be "East Blue".
 * Episode 31 - FUNimation's Title - "The Worst Man in the Eastern Seas! Fishman Pirate Arlong!"

Not only is FUNimation usually MORE accurate, but these are verifiable official titles we can use Vs. Kaizoku Fansubs' unofficial titles.

Now, I'm NOT talking about using the Edited TV titles, just fixing the titles to read with their official, Accurate English titles as the DVDs come out. It also seems the Wikia goes out of its way not to use the FUNimation simulcast titles despite the fact that they're usually MORE accurate as well. I mean
 * Episode 449 - Title used here - "Magellan's Clever Scheme! The Jailbreak Plan is Obstructed"
 * Episode 449 - Romanji Title - "'''Mazeran no Kisaku! Habamareta Datsugoku Keikaku"
 * The Japanese title says "Frustrated Escape Plan", it doesn't mention "Jail" at all.
 * Episode 449 - FUNimation's Title - "Magellan's Tricky Move! A Foiled Escaped Plan!"

That is so close, that it's almost as if this Wiki is purposely going out of its way to use something other than FUNi's titles for the sake of using something other than FUNi's titles. Can we please streamline this? Use FUNi's titles entirely except for where terms clash (IE: Use FUNi's title for Episode 1, but put "Pirate King" instead of "King of the Pirates")? And don't bring up the amount of work that would need to be done, I'm prepared to do it all on my own.DemonRin 15:36, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

95% is not 100% and we don’t compete FUNimation to translation. FUNi or VIZ can do whatever they want with their translations. If we change to FUNi and VIZ titles then beside names there will no other changes in translation. So if someone want to translate for example (episode 449) 脱獄 to jailbrake then we should revert the edit because of FUNimation usually MORE accurate translation but if we edit the translation then we will lead here we are now. What is the point to copy their translation and them change names and others and claim that this is our (is not their) translation?

You really give me the impression that you don’t really want to help here. If you wanted to help, you would have already corrected the translation in episodes 8 and 31. However, you just point out some mistranslation telling us how "accurate" translation FUNimation does. Tipota 23:24, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, is English not your first language? I don't fully understand what you're saying here. I will say, if we used FUNimation's translation, we wouldn't be able to claim it as "Ours" as much as the current titles taken from the K-F Translations and other fansub translations already aren't "Ours".
 * And Of course I want to help, but I don't know what the current standard is, and I don't want to start making blind corrections that will just get revertedDemonRin 23:49, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Tipota already said that we don't use FUNi and Viz. I don't know why you're still arguing it. 166.137.13.100 23:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * So, we ARE Not using it "for the sake" of not using it then? Got it I guess.  So the Several titles that are translated incorrectly need to stay incorrect?DemonRin 00:50, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, you translate them properly instead of using FUNi's or complaining about it. Like Tipota said, you should help instead of just telling us off and screwing everything up with the translations and the "nakama" business with buh. 166.137.13.15 03:22, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but where am I "telling you off"? And I only change it to translate "Nakama" because it's not a proper noun (like the Devil Fruits, Shichibukai, etc) and there is no official source at all that leads credence to the argument that it needs to be left untranslated. DemonRin 03:40, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Demonrin, maybe it would be best if you use your own translation when you see a mistake. Since you are fluent in Japanese, I think we can trust you on the result. Lot's of the wiki editors like myself are not english or american and have therefore no access to the FUNI subs, so I don't think it is appropriate to give them more credits than others (Also there is a dedicate place for the FUNI title in the episode box). Kdom 06:28, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Nakama translation
OK this is going crazy and nobody starts a proper discussion. Mugiwara Franky won't unlock the page unless we settle this out. So please try to avoid edit war on the episode pages in question too. Basically the question is if Nakama shall be part of terms that we do not translate on the wiki like many other (character names, Devil fruit, attacks, shichibukai...). From what I understand, even if there is no official source, the term Nakama is use in a more particular way than what it is standard in Japanese. Even if it's not the case, my main objection would be that the concept of Nakama cannot be translate in a single word in English. In the episode list the same word is translated as friends, comrade, group, crew... Hence, I'm afraid we loose something. Since everybody knows what Nakama refers too, I don't think it is much a problem to keep it. Kdom 06:28, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Word has no special meaning whatsoever. That was a misconception started by Kaizoku Fansubs. The word simply means "(Part of a) Group" you use it to refer to members a group or members of a group of Friends just as you would also refer to your coworkers as your "Nakama" in Japanese, even the ones you hate, because they're part of the same group as you. In a Pirate manga, that is your "Crewmates" or your "Crew".
 * The word DOES get used during some high-emotion scenes, but those scenes have just as much high emotion if the word is translated, because it's the weight of the scenes and the character relationships. When Luffy says "NAMI!! OMAE WA ORE NO NAKAMA DA!", you feel for the scene, not because of a word, but because it's the emotional cap on everything they've been through. When Usopp says "I'm leaving the Crew" (crew being "Nakama" in Japanese) you get emotional over the scene because Usopp is leaving after being with them for 200+ episodes, NOT because of the word used.
 * Leaving the word untranslated also has the adverse effect of making the word out to be something it's not, so when characters use it when it has little importance, it ends up seeming like a bigger deal than it really is. Again, case-in-Point, the Davy Back Fight. In the DBF, when you win, you literally "Force" someone to become your "Nakama", and that's the word they use during the arc. Chopper was forced onto their team, and in the anime there was filler where the whole CREW was almost made into Foxy's "Nakama". At no point during these proceedings did anyone say "He/we may be in your crew (Ichimi) but we'll NEVER Be your 'Nakama' Foxy!" They didn't say that, because the word is not given that weight or importance in Japan. Luffy's crew isn't special because they're his "Nakama", they're special because they're HIS Crew.
 * Finally, last case. The General "Pro-Nakama" argument is that, the word "Nakama" means "A Bond Greater than Family" and that's why it can't be translated because there is no word that means that in English. But here's a curious thing. The Whitebeard Pirates. The ENTIRE Manga, crews refer to their crewmates with "Nakama", but the Whitebeard Pirates behave differently, acting like a "Family". They're the first pirate crew in the manga to do that, they even call Whitebeard "Father". Oda did this on PURPOSE. The idea was "The other pirates are only 'Nakama', but we're 'Kazoku' (Family)". That was the point of what happened when Ace and Whitebeard died. All Whitebeard wanted was to create a "Family".
 * If "Nakama" really means a "Bond deeper than Family", why did Whitebeard want a "Family"? Why didn't he want "Nakama"? The Answer is simply because "Nakama" does not mean that. It was a misconception started by Kaizoku Fansubs because they couldn't figure out a nice sounding way to translate Luffy's "NAMI! OMAE WA ORE NO NAKAMA DA!" Line in Arlong Park. dythm, the head of K-F at the time, admitted much later that this was true, and said he himself "expressed concern that the term would get overused" in a news post at their forums, which he reposted to Arlong Park later. But the line is perfectly translatable, Viz did the best job of it IMO, they put "NAMI! YOU'RE ONE OF US NOW!!".
 * The Continued use of the phrase simply spreads the misconception even more. And yes, the EDITORS here know what Nakama means, but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia for OTHER People, and this spreads that false information and confusion to those other people.
 * So that's it, it should be translated, plain and simple. It's not a Name of something, and I think Foxy's ability to "Force" someone to become your "Nakama" and Whitebeard wanting a "Family" proves this. DemonRin 06:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Then what about Vivi, when I asked why she was not in the Straw Hat crew, I was answered that she was just a temporary passenger, but she is a "Nakama". The word is more than crew for Luffy since it is both crew and friend. Kdom 07:58, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The way Vivi's scene goes in Japanese is like this:
 * Vivi: "If We Ever Meet again, will you still consider me a part of your crew?!"
 * Technically Vivi is in fact a member of the crew, just not an active member, so the Wiki doesn't consider her one. But that's why Oda drew her with the crew on color spreads and the Anime gave her an eyecatch. Vivi is a member of the crew, just not an active one.
 * That's the reason that scene was so heavy, it was because Vivi wasn't going with them but was still being considered a member of the crew. DemonRin 08:12, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The Arlong scene perfectly shows why it should stay as Nakama. Arlong calls Nami his "nakama", but it has a completely different meaning than what Luffy feels it means. Nakama has no real translation, it's interpreted differently by different characters. Arlong considers it to just be "someone who works with me", Foxy thinks it as "one of our crew", and Luffy considers it to be a bond deeper than just "on my crew". It should stay as nakama. 166.137.12.57 23:27, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * None of those things have anything to do with the word used, it's entirely based on the situation around the word. Luffy Values his Crew, Arlong does not, and Foxy is fine trading them. I'm sorry, I speak Japanese, this word means "Crewmate/Crew". It has no special meaning. The Special bond between the Straw Hats comes from their actual BOND together, the word has absolutely nothing to do with it. That's why they wrote a song called "Family" where the Straw Hats Sing about being "Family", they don't say "Oretachi wa, Nakama" because the word "Nakama" Isn't Strong Enough to define their bond. I mean, if "Nakama" means "A bond deeper than Family", wouldn't calling themselves "Family" be a step back from "Nakama"? And in the same song, there is a line sung by Luffy that goes "Saikou no Nakama Nara, Saikou Ni Tsuyoinda". It translates to "If you have the best of friends, then you can all be the best together!". "Saikou" Is a qualifier of "the best" or "The highest", so in that line, Luffy is saying "The Best of Nakama!". How can there be a "Best of" if the term ALREADY MEANS "A Bond deeper than Family"? Anyone who thinks Nakama "has no real translation" was just brainwashed by Kaizoku Fansubs I'm afraid.


 * I'm sorry, I know this fanbase loves the word, but it's just contributing to the spread if misinformation, and until we stop using it on sites like this, it'll never stop. If the power of the statements in the episode titles is what you're worried about, I'll retranslate them myself to sound better than just "Comrade". But the word NEEDS to be translated to stop people from thinking it means something it doesn't. DemonRin 03:19, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I too believe that the word "Nakama" should stay translated in every case it is used, be it in the episode names, profile pages, character relationships, etc etc. Simply because not all people who visit the site know what the word means; and they could get confused easily, if they stumbled on a term used excessively without knowing it's meaning. This way the average reader of this wikia would have no problems reading this wikia.


 * I also want to note that Kdom is right about the word "nakama" having a more special meaning in the world of One Piece because that's indeed the truth and it's something not seen in other animes (I'm only talking about anime because in a translated manga it's more difficult to notice unless you can comprehend and read it in its raw form). Kaizoku Fansubs did good to make that noticeable by leaving it untranslated but that's not something we should follow as a wikia. MasterDeva 08:35, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for agreeing on the issue of whether or not to translate it, but I must still insist that the word has no special meaning in the Manga. I don't read scanlations or the Viz version of this manga, I read it in Raw Japanese. When I started reading One Piece, I was just beginning to learn Japanese, so I bought into the whole "Nakama is A Special Word" misconception myself. As I learned the language, however, and began to read and watch the series untranslated, I realized that was false. dythm of Kaizoku admitted they only came to the decision to leave it untranslated because of difficulty in translating that ONE scene in Arlong Park, and he himself was worried the word would become overused and take on the life it has. I linked it earlier here. This is dythm, the HEAD Of Kaizoku, the group responsible for the Nakama debacle saying this. It's true Luffy has a strong bond with his crew, but that strong bond has nothing to do with the word being used. If that were the case, why would Luffy just throw the word out the way he does sometimes? In Thriller Bark, he asked 3 people to become his "Nakama", Brook, The Cerberus, and was ABOUT to ask that tree before they stopped him. He hadn't gone through ANYTHING with them, he had no bond with Brook (yet), he had no bond with the Cerberus, and he ESPECIALLY had no bond with that tree, they had just met. He asked them to become his "Nakama" simply because they were all cool looking and he wanted them on his "Crew", because that's what the word means. The weight the word seems to have doesn't come from the word being used, it comes from the bond Luffy shares with his crew in particular. THAT is where the weight comes, not from a word but from the writing of the story and the way the characters interact, and frankly it insults the story writing to say you need a special word to communicate that.
 * Again, Luffy wouldn't just throw the term around as loosely as he did during Arlong Park if he really believed it had that kind of meaning. He loves and trusts his crew because they're his FRIENDS, not because of a word.DemonRin 12:02, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding DemonRin and for providing further argumentation to this subject. First I'd like to say that I've read your complete message earlier before posting my response (having checked the AP link too of course) and I'll say that just because Kaizoku Fansubs kept the term "nakama" untranslated; regardless of whether they had difficulty with it or not, doesn't change it from what it has become in the anime.


 * As for Luffy using the term so loosely actually is just Luffy being himself; he would get mad if someone badmouthed or hurt his friends but being the airhead he is, he has trouble behaving seriously in serious or 'not so' moments, keeping secrets (or telling lies for that matter) and overall he is the type of person who will act first and think afterwards.


 * You shouldn't be bothered with what Luffy says most of time though unless its one of his moments of enlightenment or he enters serious mode. ;D As for the word itself insulting the story I'll have to disagree with that BUT I do agree that the one think that describes the bonds between Luffy's companions and friends are their feelings towards each other and not just any word or two. Just my honest opinion. ^_^ MasterDeva 14:04, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, you still haven't addressed any of the issues I've brought up, but regardless, arguing with MasterDeva over the proper meaning of Nakama is moot at this point. Regardless of what he thinks of the word in general, he agrees with me that it should be translated here. It'd be dumb to further argue with my ally. Does anyone else care to chime into the issue? Maybe even the guy I got into the initial edit war with in the first place? I don't think the opinions of 3 name members and one unregistered member count as a "consensus".DemonRin 21:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm strongly in favor of using Nakama. The problem is that, within the context of One Piece, there is no single translation for "nakama". If you want to use it as "friend", then how do you explain Arlong calling Nami her Nakama? If you want to use it as "crewmate", then what point does any of the stuff with Vivi have? If there was one single translation that you wanted to choose, that'd be fine, but the problem is that translations for it are all over the place. The word itself speaks more volumes than "fellow" or "crew" ever does. The Pope 00:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Friend" and "Crewmate" both work. The point was Arlong using the word the same way as Luffy, even though Arlong does not think of Nami as really being his "Friend" he referred to her with the word ANYWAY. That's why there was a part where he said "She's a valuable asset, I mean, she's my friend (Nakama)" The POINT was that Arlong was calling her a part of his "crew" when she clearly isn't. And I already explained Vivi. "If we ever meet again, will you still consider me a part of this crew?!" The point of that scene, which everyone apparently missed thanks to Nakama being left untranslated, was that Vivi wanted to know if she was still a member of the crew even though she wasn't going with them. The answer was yes, Vivi is still a Straw Hat, always will be. If you notice, all the people in favor of keeping it untranslated are the people who DON'T know Japanese and are drawing this "Deeper meaning" for the word from the FANSUBS. I watch this series Raw and I own volumes 1-53 of the manga in Raw Japanese, and that's the way I read it. The Word. Nakama. Has. No. Special. Meaning. It means "Part of a group". In a Pirate Manga, that's usually your crew. Any special meaning comes from the character relationships themselves, not the word being used. I'm sorry, I know this fanbase is attached to the word, but it's a fact.DemonRin 09:56, June 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Point taken DemonRin, you don't have to repeat it to make it any more clear. I believe though you are taking it this a tiny bit more stubbornly than you should. Yes you are right that the One Piece fanbase has a strong attachment to the word Nakama (and that most of the times tend to not see things clearly if I may add) but don't you think that sometimes a certain meaning or word can become special because of the circumstances surrounding it!? The word itself doesn't have any special meaning and the definition that you gave is indeed accurate, because in their daily conversations Japanese use it casually from what I recall.


 * You know, you could see it from that point too. In the world of One Piece that we see through Luffy's and the Straw Hat Pirates side that one word is important! That's another way to use to approach something differently. As long as we can agree on what's the best we can do from our side to better help the visitors who are reading this wikia, I don't see any other problem we need do discuss about. MasterDeva 11:31, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

This Wikia does not use official sources for titles. If you want a wikia that does that then go to the Naruto wikia. Nakama is a term used by many One Piece fans and should remain regardless of what a single person wants. SeaTerror 16:56, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Rin is just running things in circles, so let's try to bring some sense into this.

As it stands, it seems like everyone (the five other people who posted here) are in favor of Nakama, while Rin is alone on not using Nakama. I think this should go by majority rule, but to avoid assumptions, let's run this by the book.

(Poll move at the bottom of the discussion)


 * No, MasterDeva said he believes it has the "super special meaning" (That isn't really there) too, but that he feels we should translate it here to avoid confusion with anyone who doesn't watch fansubs. (If I read his posts correctly)
 * Avoiding spreading the misconception is only ONE reason to fix this, Avoiding confusion in people not in the know is another. Sure WE all know what the word means, Kaizoku shoved this bit if misinformation down our throats. But anyone new to the series coming here to look for information will be confused when they come and see something that isn't a proper noun left in Japanese.
 * Heck, "Devil Fruit" is a proper noun, and this Wikia translates it. "Pirate King" is a proper noun, and the "Pirate" section translates it as "Pirate King" rather than leaving it in Japanese. "Whitebeard", "Blackbeard" and "Straw Hat" are proper nouns, but Newgate, Teach, and Luffy's sections don't refer to them as "Shirohige", "Kurohige" and "Mugiwara". Why should "Nakama", a word that means "Crew" and is not even a proper noun take precedence in the "Untranslated" department over those ACTUAL proper nouns?DemonRin 15:48, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can tell you know absolutely nothing about fansubbing. The majority of fansubs leave some Japanese words untranslated. Usually attacks and honorifics.Nobody would be confused about it. They would just look up the word if they didn't know it and be fine with it. Also if you noticed only Devil Fruit is translated and none of actual fruits are translated. SeaTerror 19:12, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am a fansubber, I do Hellsing. But "Nakama" is not an attack, and is not an honorific. It's a normal Japanese word.DemonRin 23:05, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Read all of my comment before you respond next time. The majority of fansubs leave some Japanese words untranslated. Not to mention you ignored the part about nobody getting confused. SeaTerror 01:53, June 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering I know several people who were confused at "Nakama" at first, and the fact that I myself started on this series before I knew Japanese and I Was confused, I think when you say "nobody" got confused, you're dead wrong.
 * EVERYBODY knows what a Pirate CREW is, even the people who believe the Nakama Lie. But not everyone knows what a "Nakama" is. And it's not a Proper noun, there is no legitimate reason other than "This is what the fansubbers told us and we got used to it so we prefer that now". If it was a proper noun, or it was legitimately untranslatable, I'd understand the notion of leaving it untranslated. But it's neither of those things. It means "Crew". And I'm very VERY against continuing the Nakama Lie, we should kill it so nobody else falls prey to it.DemonRin 14:49, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Just gonna add some viewpoints. Don't know if I'm repeating things since I've only scanned certain points. From what I understand Nakama is a Japanese word that can mean lots of things depending on the context it used in. When used by Arlong, it can mean co-worker or co-conspirator. When used by Luffy, it can mean friend. Either way, regardless of who's using it, how it's used remains the same. It is often used to denote someone who is close to another in one way or another.

For fansubs not translating Nakama, I believe it's not exactly their fault for not translating the word due to certain circumstances. It's probably also not their intent to spread the "lie" as so put. However, considering the context of the word, it's not hard for some people to see it as something special. Saying that it should be completely wiped out, is a bit over extreme to a point.

For translating Nakama, it's true that it has multiple meanings and some deeper context to an extent, however using it in everyplace may not be a good idea to a certain extent. I'm not saying completely follow the Funi or 4kids translations, but at least use some restraint in some areas. Saying that it should be used everywhere and everytime due to fansubs and such, is also a bit over extreme to a point.

For my stand on the whole matter, I'd say I'm pretty much neutral. As I see it, the use of Nakama can be okay due to the context, however it should be used in moderation as it is indeed a foreign word to most English speakers.Mugiwara Franky 17:15, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well...now that the lock on the page has passed, and everyone has put their word in, it seems that the majority is in favor of keeping it as Nakama.

Unless you have any last statements on the matter, I'll be reverting it. The Pope 02:19, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Umm, just because the time of the lock had ended doesn't necessarily mean the discussion is over. And although the poll says one thing, from what I see from the discussion, there's still no consensus.Mugiwara Franky 07:29, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes especially since the poll is a bias way to not answer Demonrin arguments. Also from what I conclude of the discussion, there are some titles where Nakama shall be translated (Gaimon episode in particular) Kdom 07:41, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

It seems that most of us disagree with Demonrin, that Nakama DOES have particular significance within the realm of One Piece. The Pope 15:29, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand on what grounds you have come to that conclusion. It seems to have everything to do with your conditioning and your bias from watching Fansubs that keep it untranslated for years. But look at the poll that you yourself were defending as the reason for consensus. It's tied 6 to 6. Plus, Mugiwara Franky and Kdom just above here don't seem to be dead-set on "Always leave it untranslated", they are talking about translating it SOMETIMES if not doing away with the Nakama Lie entirely. We have clearly not reached consensus yet at all.DemonRin 16:12, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to throw in my own two cents. As Rin mentioned, a LOT of confusion about the series seems to come from the fansubs. Kaizoku-Fansubs has really twisted the perceptions on people's mentalities on what has "special meanings" and what doesn't. Watching the fanbase from a distance, I'm seeing a lot of people taking way too many liberties in their belief that the Japanese language in One Piece has magical, special meanings behind them. They don't. "Nakama" in an anime relating to pirates generally refers to crewmembers or being part of a group. There is no ifs, ands or buts about it. Trying to claim it's anything but is a gross error. You people do the SAME THING with virtually every other term in the series that it's getting to the point where English takes a back seat to all of the Japanese that flies around in these translations. Everyone continues to translate the Navy as "Marines" even though the word Oda uses in Japanese translates to Navy, everyone keeps calling the Devil Fruits by their Japanese names, EVEN WHEN STATING THEY HAVE A TRANSLATION, and everyone keeps leaving the Japanese names for groups untranslated.
 * It is literally an absolute mess. And it baffles my mind when people throw these terms around, get offended when someone corrects them about these terms have NO magical properties about them, and then act like the fansubs are always correct. I'm sorry, but they aren't. You know something is wrong when you see fansubs and scanlations throwing the word "fuck" around and all sorts of obscenities into the dialogue and try to write those off as "translations." The fansubbing community is WRONG and has always been wrong. "Nakama" has no special meaning at all. Neither does half of the crap you people you like to claim does. You only believe they do because it's a language different from yours and some of you are too big of simpletons to get the idea that the idea of calling someone your friend can be taken in different ways depending on how emotion placed behind it. It's the scene itself and the way characters are using it. Not the word. Seriously, One Piece is one of the only anime I see these days where the fanbase stupidly continues to leave in Japanese words, even when there are suitable translations. You people may as well write the subtitles in pure Japanese at this rate. Tsukento out.98.211.163.77 16:42, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well I suppose, marines are called marines because it is written like that on every ship. And what is this unnecessary animosity ? There are very few things which are let untranslated in the wiki only the proper nouns which is standard to not translated ie Kdom 20:27, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * people name (also the occidental surnames are often used when they refer to existing pirates),
 * the name of the Devil Fruit (btw Akuma no Mi is never used, else it is a mistake),
 * the names of the organisations (I don't see the problem, you don't translate the name of a company, that's the same here).

I can tell you watch nothing other than One Piece then. 1) Many fansubs leave Japanese words untranslated. Not just in One Piece.

2) If Oda wanted it to be Navy then he would not have EVERYTHING in the manga say Marine.

3)Nobody cares if there is a proper translation for names in many series. Not just One Piece. Many wikia's use Japanese names instead of English versions. There's a reason why Soul Reaper is not used on the Bleach Wikia. SeaTerror 23:03, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Regardless of his feelings on the matter, you guys just named several legitimate reasons to leave something untranslated: If it is a proper noun.
 * Nakama is not. It is not the name of something at all. The heightened status the word has comes entirely from the fans, it has no such meaning in Japanese, and the Japanese fanbase (who read the series like I do, Raw) understand the weight of those scenes perfectly despite the fact that the normal unassuming Japanese word "Nakama" is being used.
 * The General argument for not translating Nakama is "a word like 'friend' or 'crewmate' is too weak and unassuming to convey what Luffy means when he says it". To the people reading this series in Japan, it's original target audience, they're seeing Luffy use a normal, weak, unassuming word. In Japan, you use "Nakama" to refer to your coworkers, even the ones you hate, because the word doesn't refer to the bond between anyone, it simply refers to "A group" or "Members of a group". It was Oda's intent to use such an unassuming word, because his writing is good enough so that the feelings of Luffy and his crew are communicated regardless of the word being used. And what's more, it's used specifically as an unassuming word because when Whitebeard's crew starts to refer to each other as "Family" you're SUPPOSED to feel that Whitebeard and his crew use terminology Stronger Than what Luffy and his crew use. Oda did that on Purpose. Whitebeard's crew is supposed to treat each other like a "Family" and that's supposed to have more weight than "Nakama". That's the point of Whitebeard's dream. He didn't want any mere "Nakama", he wanted a "Family". If the fans treat the word as though it means "A Bond deeper than Family", where is the logic in what Whitebeard wanted? If "Nakama" truly means that, why does he want a "Family" when he could have "Nakama"? The answer is that the word does Not have any deeper meaning, and Oda, the author, did that On Purpose. We should preserve the intent of the author, and not elevate the word, and let the actions of the characters speak louder than the words.DemonRin 01:30, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Whitebeard's aside the point; just because he wanted a family and not Nakama doesn't make Nakama not important. He didn't want a "crew", or "friends"; he wanted a family. That's why it's significant.

Anyway, I'm with what Kdom said earlier; I believe that we should leave Nakama alone as is in most areas, but for some episode titles, such as with Gaimon, it's okay to translate it. It's just idiotic to translate it 50 different ways to fit the situation; if we're going to do that, we might as well leave it as "Nakama", if it encapsulates all of those meanings. The Pope 04:39, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Earlier you were ready to go with the Poll results. What happened to that?
 * We could just translate it as "Friends" or "Friend" on pretty much every count and it will fit the context of what's going on, at least for the episode titles. "The Friends' Whereabouts", "Gaimon and his Amazing Friends", "All for the sake of protecting my Friends", "Nami is my Friend!".
 * And Hey, I just saw you change some of them. I'm reverting it, we aren't done discussing it yet I don't think.DemonRin 05:03, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I reverted it because anonymous users are changing it without inputting discussion. And "friends" doesn't work with stuff involving Foxy and Arlong. The Pope 05:10, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look, I just reverted it back to the way it was when Mugiwara Franky first locked it. Your rationale was "Popular Vote" when you put all the "Nakama"s back. Look at the vote now. Translate it is the clear winner. So if that was your rationale for changing it in the first place, we should just go with what the true consensus is now no? Also, I just checked all the episode titles that feature the word "Nakama" and Foxy and Arlong's crews are never mentioned in them, so that argument is moot. If you guys want, I will personally go through and re-translate and rewrite every single one to sound right. Would that make you happy? As for what to put for the time being, the Nakama situation should stay the way it was when Mugiwara Franky first locked it until the discussion here is done. That was the point of him locking it, and he said up there that just because it's unlocked now does not mean discussion is over.DemonRin 05:16, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just re-translated every episode with Nakama in it up to some of the most recent. I alternated between using "Friend" and "Crewmate/Crew" and it works out perfectly.
 * 043 - The Fall of the Fishman Empire! Nami is One of Us!
 * 102 - Ruins and Lost Ones! Vivi, Friends, and the State of a Country.
 * 104 - Luffy Vs. Vivi! The Tearful Oath Between Friends
 * 114 - Swear on the Dreams of your Friend! Combat at Molehill 4th Avenue
 * 234 - To a Friend's Rescue! Raid Franky House
 * 252 - The Steam Whistle Splinters the Crew! The Sea Train Starts Up!
 * 256 - To Rescue our Friends! The Solemn Vow that Unites Foes!
 * 273 - Everything to Protect My Friends! Gear 2nd: Start Up!
 * 278 - Say You Wanna Live! We Are Friends!!
 * 281 - Tears That Wove The Bonds of Friendship! Nami's World Map!
 * 283 - All for my Friends' Sake! The Darkness Deep Inside Robin!
 * 377 - My Friends' Pain is My Pain, Zoro Fights Ready to Die.
 * 379 - Brook's Past - Sad Farewell to the Cheerful Crew
 * 381 - A New Crewmate! - The Musician, "Humming Brook".
 * 384 - Brook's Hard Struggle - The Difficult Path to Becoming a True Crewmate?
 * 405 - Disappearing Crewmates - The Final Day of the Straw Hat Crew.

The rest are all "The Crew's Whereabouts" and that works perfectly for all of them. So as you can see, it's not "Idiotic" and doesn't take translating it "50 different ways" to do this. After this silliness is behind us, I also wana go through EVERY episode title and re-translate all the mistakes. Can we agree that these look good and just go with them? The Poll shows a clear victor right now...DemonRin 05:45, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * But see? That's the problem; you can't just go between "crew" and "friend". The point I'm trying to make that if there isn't a clear-cut translation for the term, then it should be left untranslated. You've seen so yourself, that "friend" doesn't work in some occasions, and "crewmate" doesn't work in others either. There is no single word to interpret the wide scope of the meaning of the word except for the word itself, "Nakama". The Pope 06:29, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * That argument is extremely flimsy and doesn't hold any water at all because you could make that same claim about ANY word in the Japanese language.
 * "Tasukete" means "Help", "Save" or "Rescue". In Arlong Park, Nami looks at Luffy and says "Luffy... Tasukete..." which is "Luffy... Help me...". While in Enies Lobby, Luffy says "Oretachi wa Robin wo Tasukete!" or "We're gonna go Save Robin!". Just like here, you can mix the terms up, but "Luffy... Save me" sounds awkward in the place of Arlong Park, and "We're gonna help Robin!" sounds weak and out of place in Enies Lobby. So does that mean we now have to leave "Tasukete" in Japanese because it has no one clear meaning? "So Luffy and the crew headed out to Tasukete Robin".
 * And then there's the 100s of different ways to say "I/me" in Japanese that don't translate properly over to English AT ALL. "Ore" = super informal male, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Usopp and Chopper use it. "Atashi" is feminine, Nami uses it. "Watashi" is respectful and Gender-neutral, Robin uses it. "Boku" is a more respectful masculine way of saying it, Usopp DISTINCTLY Switches to this when he's Sogeking. It's a very marked change in his speech pattern. Translating all of this over into English and preserving the meaning is literally impossible, not a single official translator, official or not, tries to carry this over, it would be impossible. This is literally an untranslatable set of terms, should we start leaving these untranslated? "Robin! Ore will Tasukete You now!"
 * Then there's "You". The Japanese word for "You" is exactly the same as "I/Me". "Omae" is informal male, and is used by all the boys on the crew. "Anta" is informal feminine, Nami uses it. "Anata" is gender-neutral respectful, Robin Uses it. "Kimi" is masculine informal, Usopp switches to it when he's Sogeking. Again, Literally IMPOSSIBLE to translate this. So now let's look at our sentence: "Robin! Ore Will Tasukete Omae now!".
 * Not enough? Howabout: "Dame", "Umi", "Yarou", "Kisama", Hell KAIZOKU (Pirate) is a word that has distinctly different meanings and weight to it depending on who is using it. When Kuro or Bellamy talks about being "Kaizoku" they have a distinctly different definition of the term than when Luffy or Blackbeard talks about it. The World Government also has a distinctly different view on what makes a "Kaizoku". It's the EXACT same situation as Nakama now that I think about it. Everyone in the series uses it, but it always has different weight to it. Like in Drum when Luffy defended Hiruluk's Pirate Flag. Saying it was a symbol that stood for more than Wapol could ever understand. There's even a part where Buggy defines "Kaizoku" as being people who search for treasure, Nami defines a Kaizoku as a ruthless criminal whom she hates, and Luffy Defines a "Kaizoku" as "Someone who is Free on the Ocean!". The word is easily translatable, just like Nakama, but when characters use it, they all have DISTINCTLY different views on what makes a "Kaizoku". Should we leave THAT untranslated too? How far must we take this?
 * However, It only took TWO different Synonyms for the same word in order to properly translate "Nakama", it's far easier to translate than MOST other Japanese words. And it's NOT a proper noun. But if you must nitpick like that, then I'll simply rewrite them so they ALL Read with either "Crewmate" or "Friend", because that is entirely possible too.DemonRin 08:25, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, this seems to be clearly getting to be much more heated than it needs to be based on some words spoken. Please remember that this is supposed meant to be a discussion on how to better the wikia in an orderly manner. Both sides have presented arguments however if one or both sides can't cool down for a bit and be polite then nothing's gonna be understood less be achieved.Mugiwara Franky 09:57, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Uh...in all of those instances, Kaizoku still meant pirate. And having multiple Japanese words mean the same English word is the exact opposite of the problem going on right now. But MF is right; we do need some kind of compromise.

I'm in favor of leaving most of it as "Nakama", but translating only the few where it doesn't seem to mesh as well, such as with Gaimon and whatnot. The Pope 14:54, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I don't see where it was getting "Heated" but I'll choose my words more carefully I guess. The Idea of that wasn't "Look, multiple Japanese words that all mean the same thing" it was "These words are literally untranslatable, because translating them over to "I" or "Me" loses the underlying meaning in them. Usopp specifically switches his speech style when he becomes Sogeking and starts using "Boku" instead of "Ore. And the rest of them are all gender-specific. Ore is for Guys, Atashi is for Women, Watashi is Gender neutral. There is no way to translate that, at all. But we DO translate that word. And you ignored when I brought up "Tasukete" (Help, Rescue, or Save) and that one is pretty much the same exact issue as Nakama.
 * I know it's hard to ignore the word since you've been told by the fansubbers for so long that it has this deeper meaning that makes it untranslatable, it's hard to step back and take an objective look at the situation after all that time and conditioning.
 * But seriously, I know you dismissed it but "Kaizoku" DOES have the same thing going for it.
 * With Nakama, the general argument is that "Everyone in the series uses the term differently".
 * Arlong, Kuro and Moria treat their "Nakama" like pawns and don't think much of the word.
 * Foxy sees his like trading cards and identifiers of status and uses the DBF to try to get more to look better.
 * Luffy sees his cremates as being his best friends and most faithful partners.
 * With Kaizoku:
 * Buggy, Kuro, and Krieg see it as a term for those who lust for power and treasure.
 * The World Govt. Sees "Kaizoku" as criminals which must be expunged
 * Luffy, Usopp, Hiruluk, and Chopper see the pirates as a noble group who go to the sea and have no regrets.
 * Just like "Nakama" there are powerful scenes where the word is used. Specifically the scene when Wapol called himself a "Kaizoku" and attacked Hiruluk's flag. That pissed Luffy off and prompted a speech from him about what a Kaizoku TRULY is. Luffy has never had a "This is what a Nakama REALLY is" speech, not even when Foxy almost succeeded in literally Forcing Chopper to become his "Nakama". In fact, this very Wikia has a section on "Pirates" and it flat out states that "Pirates" isn't entirely accurate to describe them because "Pirates" and "Privateers" are often lumped together. Look
 * "Privateers and pirates are often grouped together as one and the same. The only real difference was that privateers can be consider hired "pirates", who were contracted to work for their governments against other nations on the seas, and were generally allowed to do anything they wanted so long as they did not attack their own countries ships. Pirates however, work for no one and worked on their own accords. In One Piece, the Shichibukai are based on "Privateers", however the Straw Hats themselves have done actions that would fall into this classification as well; such as helping Alabasta against Crocodile (orginally Nami only agreed to protect Vivi for a price)."
 * So what are the Straw Hats? Are they "Pirates" or are they "Privateers"? If there is no clear classification for what a "Kaizoku" is, does that mean it too should be left untranslated? The answer is no, we translate it. I could literally apply the same logic you're using in favor of "Nakama", that it doesn't have one, clear cut translation, to Any word in the Japanese language when translating. "Tatakai" means a "Physical Fight" or "Battle", it's used very often in One Piece, but it also can refer to a verbal argument, those two aren't exactly the same thing. Just like a "Crewmate" and a "Friend" are the same but with different weight and inflection, a "Physical Fight" and an "Argument" are two distinctly different things. "Yarou" is a derogatory term usually translated as "Bastard" or "Asshole". But when Luffy wants to rally his crew, he shouts "Oi, Yarou domo!" to rally them, and in that circumstance you'd translate it as "Hey you guys!" because obviously Luffy is not insulting them. Heck, then there's "Takara" which is the Japanese word for "Treasure". JUST Like Nakama, it can refer to different things and characters in this series have VASTLY different vies on what you consider your "Takara" or "Treasure". Nami sees it as valuable stuff, Luffy sees his Hat as treasure, that guy in Alabasta saw his Dance Powder as treasure, Gaimon saw his Animals as his treasure. There was even a scene where this became an issue, when Buggy tore Luffy's hat and he went "My Takara!" and Buggy said "Takara isn't something like a hat, Takara is Gold, & Jewels!"
 * A rule in translation has to be universal. The rule here is; it gets left untrnaslated if it's a proper noun. That rule makes sense and works for literally everything left untranslated on this Wikia because they're ALL proper nouns. Except Nakama, it's the only one that isn't. And the rule you apply to Nakama to keep IT untrnanslated can't work because you can't apply it universally, because literally every word in this language doesn't translate over perfectly. If that were the case then Google Translate and Babelfish would actually WORK most of the time. The only reason it gets applied to Nakama is because people are biased to that word, and that's not grounds to leave something untranslated.DemonRin 18:44, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I agree entirely with DemonRin. It just seems the only arguments for leaving the word untranslated are fueled by emotions based on misinformation. Whether the word is special or not (I say it's not), the tight knit relationship between the crew members is obvious regardless of the language used. Bji22 02:12, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that argument is that Kaizoku can 99.9% of the time always be translated to English as "Pirate", whereas Nakama has no single translation that works on every occasion, hence why it should be left as is if no single translation can be found. The Pope 03:55, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * You keep ignoring me when I say "You could make that exact same argument about every single word in the Japanese language".DemonRin 04:24, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * The only other examples you've given are words like "Kaizoku" that you could almost make the argument that it can have different meanings but all of those translate to "Pirate", and when one English word can have many Japanese translations, but that's the inverse point. The Pope 04:50, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you selectively reading my posts? "Yarou" means "Asshole" or "Bastard", in fact, that's what Chopper says when he does his "I won't be happy if you compliment me asshole!" line.  Luffy uses it to rally the crew, watch when he is talking about shipping off, he says "Oi Yarou Domo!".  He's not calling THEM assholes, he's saying "Hey you guys!".  It cannot be translated the same way in both situations because one is supposed to be an insult, and the other is just Luffy being like "Hey Guys!"  If you used "Guy" as an insult it'd be like "You... Guy...", doesn't work does it?  And Luffy... "Hey, Get ready Assholes!"... very out of character for him isn't it?
 * And you keep reading exactly the wrong meaning when I bring up the ways to say "I/me". The fact that there are many of them has NOTHING to do with the point I'm trying to make.  It comes entirely from the MEANING behind them.  They all have a meaning that cannot be translated into English AT ALL.
 * Let's just focus on ONE Of them since every time I bring up more than one, you throw that back at me. Boku.  Boku means "I/me" but it is a specifically masculine way of saying it.  Usopp makes a MARKED effort to switch it speech style to use that when he's Sogeking.  It's a very noticeable character trait for Sogeking when you watch the series in Japanese.  That whole situation is literally untranslatable.  That is the point.  Not that there are several different ways to say it, but that the inflection behind them are Literally impossible to translate.  Just like you are claiming "Nakama" is.  Let me repeat this, because I don't want you going "But it's multiple Japanese words with just one English meaning" again.  I'm Not talking about there being many words.  I am Only talking about the fact that they all have a Deeper Meaning that the dictionary definition simply cannot convey, which is pretty much the major defense of leaving Nakama untranslated.
 * Want more examples of Japanese words that have no clear translation? "Saikyo". It means "Strongest", "Greatest", "Best", "Highest".  It can refer to the strength of a person, so "Strongest" is how it should be translated there.  But it can ALSO be used to talk about the best work someone did, or the best built boat, or the highest up location.  "Strongest" does NOT work there, it has a completely different meaning.  Then you'd say "Highest Quality" or "Best", because "Strongest" doesn't work anymore.  And you can't say "He has the best strength" when talking about someone's strength.  I mean, who goes "Yeah, you have the best strength out of all of us!"  Not only are you still altering the term (You're still adding the word "Strength" to the equation) but NOBODY talks like that!  When talking about a person's strength you translate "Saikyo" as "The Strongest" and when you're talking about something like a boat, like "Thousand Sunny-Go wa Saikyo Fune!" you'd translate that as "The Thousand Sunny is the Greatest ship".  When the Straw Hats are crossing the Red Line, Luffy says "Saiyko no Umi!  Gurando Rain!"  or "The Greatest Ocean!  The Grand Line!".  "Strongest" doesn't work, the ocean itself has no strength, and never fights the other oceans.  you can't say that.  "Best" doesn't even work, it's too weak sounding for the Grand Line.
 * Then there's the famous "Hige". As in from "Shirohige", "Kurohige" (Whitebeard, Blackbeard). The term doesn't actually mean "Beard", it means "Facial Hair"  they have no word to denote the difference between a mustache and a beard.  So you translate it differently based on the situation.  If there was a line where a man had an interesting mustache, and the characters were like "Kono otoko no Hige wo mitte!" or "Look at that guy's Mustache!", but if the same scene happened but the guy had no Mustache, only a beard, you'd translate it as "Beard".  I mean, "Whitebeard" isn't actually accurate, he has no beard.  Should we change it to the "White Facial Hair" Pirates?  No, because that would be ridiculous.
 * Do I need to tell you more, or do you get what I'm saying yet? This Language is FULL of things that don't always translate over the same way at all.  I don't know why you seem to think this isn't the case.  I mean, I actually know this language... I took 3 years of formal lessons...DemonRin 05:31, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Buh you are a bit unfair Demonrin provide many example beside Kaisoku and it becomes more and more difficult to defend the point beside the fact that it is a word we have come to like. I don't blame the fansub for that, they did not brainwash me it's just the normal way the different languages interact with eachother ( Well 50% of english words are based on french after all), I will continue to use it in the forum but based on the point which have been made in the discussion I think we should translate it in articles. Kdom 06:25, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have we ever had problems with translating stuff like "saikyo" and that whole boku thing? Again, that doesn't matter if there are multiple ways in Japanese to say "I"; it's still "I". That's aside the point.
 * The only other example I can see that can actually be put into play (aside from Kaizoku, which, again, always translates to Pirate, is the "hige" thing. It's true that it technically means "facial hair"; however, "BlackFacialHair" and the like sounds kinda off, and since there were actual pirates named "Blackbeard" and the like, translations went with beard.
 * While you bring up some valid points, the problem is that we never have problems with any of these; when they have to be translated for use in the wiki, there's almost always a single translation to use. That's not the case with Nakama; there's no single translation that works. It's not just that "we stupid people who watched the fan sub think Nakama is special"; it's that there's no direct translation that perfectly gives the meaning of the word. "Friend" and "Crew" are not always interchangeable. Whether you think the word is special or not is aside from the point; the bottom line is that if a word can not be directly translated, then it should be left as is. The Pope 06:33, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * But the word can EASILY be translated. There is no translation issue whatsoever.  "Mustache" and "Beard" are not always interchangeable. And there really is a pirate called "Blackbeard", but there isn't one called "Whitebeard".  And he doesn't have a beard, he has a Mustache, but we don't call him "WhiteMustache".  There are also times when the word is used and it has nothing to do with Newgate or Teach.  As for Saikyo, it doesn't matter if nobody has ever raised a translation issue, nobody has because nobody ever thought to.  It is STILL a word that has no one clear-cut translation in English. Just like 75% of the language. Just like Nakama.  It's the exact same situation as Nakama, you only see a difference because you have an emotional attachment to the word "Nakama" but not "Saikyo".  And... Ok, WHY did you say "Again, that doesn't matter if there are multiple ways in Japanese to say "I"; it's still "I". That's aside the point."?!?!  I went Out of my way to make sure I was clear.
 * The fact that there are 5 different ways to say I is not the point I am trying to make with that.
 * The fact that there are 5 different ways to say I is not the point I am trying to make with that.
 * The fact that there are 5 different ways to say I is not the point I am trying to make with that.
 * And again The fact that there are 5 different ways to say I is not the point I am trying to make with that.
 * The Point is those words have a Very distinctly different set of meanings that Literally cannot be translated. "Boku" doesn't just mean "I".  It is a masculine form and is more respectful than "Ore".
 * I think you refuse to take a step back and look at "Nakama" from an objective viewpoint, I think you've been watching fansubs too long to be able to see that the word is perfectly translatable. That is where the problem with Nakama COMEs from.  Fans have been seeing it in their fansubs for so long, and have been told for so long that the word has this deep meaning that they cannot separate that emotional response from fact.  Just ask yourself, if they'd ALWAYS translated Nakama and never left it untranslated, would you feel about it the way you do now?  Would you even haven noticed the word from any of the several other Japanese words?  And would you have lost anything from the experience?  Would Luffy and his crew's journey have somehow been weaker because you aren't reading "Nakama" in the subtitles?  Because if that is the case, then you must not have much faith in Oda's writing.DemonRin 06:48, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Well so much for your "The Poll shows a clear victor right now" comment. The whole point about using nakama in episode titles is that this wikia uses fansub titles and not official titles. Yet you never complained about that when arguing to use official titles. Nakama has always been used on this wikia and it should remain so. SeaTerror 07:26, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but "The fansubs did it" and "This is how it's always been" are poor arguments. Fansubs flub translations more often than people would want to believe.  And if we went with what has "always been used" then we should go back to calling Bon Kurei "Bon Clay" because before Oda showed his wanted poster in the Meet Baroque Works cover story, EVERYBODY, including K-F, translated his name as "Bon Clay".  That's what has "Always been used" for the vast majority of the time before we knew his name was "Bon Kurei".  Same With Oars, we'd still be calling him "Odz" if we didn't get with the times and change when new information is presented.  So clearly, just because something has "Always been used" doesn't make it any less wrong and that it shouldn't be corrected eventually.DemonRin 09:38, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Vote
Nakama or no Nakama? Nakama Translate it The Pope 14:21, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Marineford Filler
Should all of these filler episodes be considered part of the Marineford arc? Or should they be separate, like with the Buggy and Coby/Helmeppo side-stories? I'd say 5/6 episodes is kinda pushing it. The Pope 04:41, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What Filler? The animated Straw Hat cover stories that were in the manga?  Those should definitely get their own section, but they aren't fillerDemonRin 05:51, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, there's also the upcoming episode which is just a recap. And a lot of the stuff in these episodes were filler, like Sanji's fight with the "stand-in" and those creatures fighting Zoro. The Pope 06:33, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * There was also like, 10 minutes worth of Buggy-Mr. 3 Filler added to several episodes of the Impel Down arc, but we don't consider that Filler. Those episodes were padded-out Canon material just like the entire ID arc was.DemonRin 08:28, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

For the Straw Hat coverstories, they kinda fall in the same category as the Buggy and Coby coverstories that were covered in the anime.

For the upcoming brothers special flashback episode, not really sure what to make of it yet. From the preview, it seems to be more than just simple recap as it appears to include scenes that are supposed to be revealed much later in the story. Best wait till it airs before making any final decisions.Mugiwara Franky 10:17, June 21, 2010 (UTC)