Talk:Nine Red Scabbards

Members
I think it's safe to conclude that the rest of the retainers are members:


 * The group was said to be comprised of the Kozuki Family's retainers, who were tasked with opening the borders of Wano. (chap 919 page 6)
 * The retainers we know were tasked the same thing. (chap 819 page 4)
 * Both groups are lead by Kin'emon.

Is that enough of a prove? Rhavkin (talk) 22:53, February 7, 2019 (UTC)

I would say no. We are sure to get more information in the near future, and we do not want to speculate. 23:05, February 7, 2019 (UTC)

"10th" Red Scabbard
There are only nine red scabbards. That "10th" one is obviously Kikunojo in her younger years. Mugiwara1994 (talk) 19:53, October 14, 2019 (UTC)

Oda confirmed otherwise in SBS 94. Rhavkin (talk) 20:03, October 14, 2019 (UTC)

No he didn't. He said that Izou and Kiku look similar and the answer will be revealed one day. He never said it was a different character either way. SeaTerror (talk) 06:23, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

That "10th Scabbard" was definitely just kiku. (GoldenOath20 (talk) 06:35, October 15, 2019 (UTC))

The only translation we have says "Huh? thought it was Okiku...but the person feels a little different..." Rhavkin (talk) 06:50, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

What does that even mean? (GoldenOath20 (talk) 08:29, October 15, 2019 (UTC))

That this a person different from Kiku. Rhavkin (talk) 08:30, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

He never directly said they were different. He hinted at it and said everything would be revealed later. SeaTerror (talk) 08:46, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

"Huh? thought it was Okiku...but the person feels a little different..." Rhavkin (talk) 09:21, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

I'm not going to post the definitions of feels and is for you. SeaTerror (talk) 18:11, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

Feels a little different is the whole thing about Kiku being a guy or a girl.--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 19:34, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

Oda also said in his answer "One day the answer to this question will be revealed, so just continue reading." He left the question hanging with zero confirmation that it's Kiku, thus we should not claim otherwise. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:17, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

That's fine by me. But at the same time, do we really need to add a single appearance character with no significance. If we add this character and it turns out that it is Kiku, then the wiki would have had wrong and misleading info of a secret 10th scabbard. On the other hand, us leaving it out would have no mistakes to it whether it is proved to be Kiku or not. We gotta stop adding random characters that appeared in one scene for one second.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 20:23, October 15, 2019 (UTC)

"Feels a little different is the whole thing about Kiku being a guy or a girl" That makes no sense whatsoever. Also Oda left the question hanging as in if it wasn't Kiku or it was so they shouldn't even be on the template at all. SeaTerror (talk) 09:17, October 16, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with removing them from the template. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:38, October 16, 2019 (UTC)

Why? If it isn't Kiku, the character should be included. And we had several case with the Charlotte Family\Big Mom Pirates and Wano Country characters where we had a character appear twice, once as mentioned and another as an unnamed character until it was confirmed otherwise, so even if it is Kiku, until confirmed we shouldn't assume it is. Rhavkin (talk) 14:45, October 16, 2019 (UTC)

Thing is we don't know if he is actually a Scabbard. It's kinda speculating to say that, there used to be ten based on the existence on what may or may not be a new character.--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 23:40, October 16, 2019 (UTC)

We don't know when they started to be called by that name, and they always appeared as nine people, at most Kiku replaced that person. Rhavkin (talk) 04:21, October 17, 2019 (UTC)

Exactly my point. No one said in that chapter that that character was a Scabbard at all. And, as you said, "we don't know when they started to be called by that name," which means they might have only started being called that after Kiku joined (assuming that's not Kiku). This page is about the "Nine Red Scabbards," not "Nine First Followers of Oden." Even if that person was part of a nine-person group and was replaced by Kiku later on, he still wouldn't be a Scabbard and in the Scabbard gallery because, as you have said, "we don't know when they started to be called by that name."Nightmare Pirates (talk) 06:33, October 18, 2019 (UTC)

And it does make sense to say "Feels a little different is the whole thing about Kiku being a guy or a girl." That character feels a little different from Kiku, because the Kiku that we see right now looks nothing like him. Why? Because Kiku dresses like a woman now.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 06:35, October 18, 2019 (UTC)

The time of the naming is irrelevant, even if an official name was decided upon at a later date, the group history stays the same.

The whole argument of "feels a little different" = "Kiku's gender" is speculative at best, and insensitive at worst, and should be discussed on Kiku's page, if at all. Rhavkin (talk) 07:02, October 18, 2019 (UTC)

The naming isn't irrelevant because literally "Nine Red Scabbards" is the group with Kiku in it. It's an assumption to say that it can be extended to some random character (if it isn't even Kiku). Group history is of course the same because this page is about the Scabbards. But if that is not Kiku, then there is absolutely no concrete evidence that that character is part of the Scabbards. Maybe a retainer of Kozuki, but literally cannot be the 10th member of a 9-person group. Or the former 9th member - because this is speculative that some dude existed and vanished and was replaced by Kiku as the 9th Scabbard.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 01:06, October 19, 2019 (UTC)

Look at the Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance, the group has a history and members before the naming or all current members being part of it. Rhavkin (talk) 04:32, October 19, 2019 (UTC)

That's irrelevant to his point. By your logic if Luffy was actually called a Yonkou then he should be put on the template without accurately renaming it. SeaTerror (talk) 16:51, October 25, 2019 (UTC)