File talk:Caesar Clown Portrait.png

Edit war


So I really don't like the Jump Cover version, since parts of CC are missing because of the way his image is superimposed over text. It's really wonky-looking in portrait form, because we can't see where the weird looking things come from.

It's obvious that CC's anime color scheme is going to be different than his manga one. But is that really so bad? It's not like we use only manga images for Robin because her anime colors are different. If it leads to a better image, I say we use anime.

And if you disagree, then I think we should use a different colored manga image, like the one on the cover of Volume 68, but better than the one we have uploaded now. 04:41, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

We use the manga portrait of robin because her eye color is different, if you can find a better manga image, go ahead.


 * I'd need access to a bigger picture of the volume 68 cover, because if I made a portriat off of the version we currently have, it would be way too small. I don't know where to get a better version. 12:13, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Volume 68 wouldn't work either way, since he's looking too much downwards.

Well, the two color manga are Vol 68 and that magazine cover. And what's wrong with having him facing downwards anyways? At least it shows his entire face. 16:50, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

The anime one is disgusting. His head is turned in one of them, and the face looks like it did in the manga. Whenever we get a frontal picture that looks like that, we'll switch to anime. 04:46, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

What's wrong with the image from Episode 592? 15:45, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Color scheme. 03:58, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

I think we're being too hard on color schemes when it comes to portraits. Of course, they're ALWAYS going to be different. If you want to keep this "color scheme" thing consistent, you may as well make every portrait a manga image. Color is a minor problem and we shouldn't trash a whole image because of it. Now, as to why we should trash this new manga color image: The rip. Seriously, that rip doesn't exist on his face. 04:04, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Oda's color schemes are much more important than what Toei decides. Yes, we should use manga colored portraits if they are available (and different from the anime). They almost always look better anyways. 04:08, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Please, let's not do that. Our current system is fine. The anime picture looks great, especially with that snazzy hair effect. We shouldn't downplay ourselves to look more "official". 04:10, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

So we should ignore what the author decides, and choose the non-canon look. Nope. 04:12, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Uploaded the volume cover, so your "rip" complaint has been addressed. 04:14, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

It's the same character. Heck, I'm sure even the author would choose it. 04:27, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Too bad he didn't, as you can see from how he drew him on the Shonen Jump cover and on the volume. 04:34, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Bumping this. Shouldn't we use the Volume cover version? It doesn't have that weird object. 04:27, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Manga Vs. Anime
So what the color scheme is different.Then change all the images to manga since those are the official colors. Stop edit warring over something completely dumb. 09:21, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

It matters. I'd rather use the author's color scheme than an unofficial one that Toei came up with. 13:04, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Even if the "unofficial" image is visually better in every way? It's the only colored frontal image of him with nothing obscuring. 04:28, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

It isn't better, because it's unofficial. 04:29, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

So what? Most of the images on this site are anime images. Would you rather revert every single one into a manga? 04:30, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

That isn't the same as all. Stop bringing unrelated topics up. When Oda provides color schemes, and the anime uses others, we use Oda's. If we have a black and white image that's the same as an anime one, without a colored manga alternative, we use anime. 04:33, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Are there any other alternatives besides the ones you mentioned? Luffy's chest appearing across Caesar's head is a deal breaker for me and the position of his head in volume 68 isn't appropriate for a portrait. MasterDeva (talk) 23:17, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

None currently. I say we stick with the best out of the two, due to the differences that the anime has with the manga. 23:20, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll give preference to the anime since there are no better alternatives, and specifically to the version uploaded by Kaizoku-Hime. Unless, of course, the recent episodes have something more to offer. MasterDeva (talk) 23:39, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'd agree with the anime if it didn't have such major color differences. I pointed them out in the section below. 23:43, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not denying that there is a colour difference but with the lack of manga alternatives, I'm preparing to accept it as a lesser evil. MasterDeva (talk) 07:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, but the lesser evil would be to just leave the rip. It's hardly distracting. I'd rather see him with correct colorization then some madeup color scheme by Toei. 09:16, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I support any of the anime images. 00:33, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

New Image
I believe that the manga image is better. It is focused on the entire head and not only the face, which makes it a better portrait. 06:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'm assuming that you're referring to the current image. Yeah, I prefer that too. It has more detail and good quality. 08:36, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I still believe the anime portrait is better. It focuses on his face and it doesn't have the slash. Seriously, that slash alone should be reason enough not to use that manga image. 18:13, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

The manga image is focused on the head. That's what makes a good portrait. 18:25, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

And this isn't? The slash makes the portrait confusing. It misleads people to think it's part of him. The slash doesn't belong there. 19:29, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Weird snow on the recent anime image. I still think the color scheme is significant enough to warrant it staying manga (the hair doesn't have those purple lines in the manga, his skin isn't that pale). Oh, and about the weird stick, I agree that it's a distraction. There's another alternative for it though, the portrait from the cover of volume 68 (although it isn't completely frontal). 22:46, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

I darkened it with photoshop to remove the white snow-filter. So now it works.

Well, now we can't use that one. Doctoring isn't allowed. 00:16, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I still maintain that the best image of Caesar's face is the one from the anime. Portraits are used for identification purposes, and the clearest shot with the least distractions is the anime one. His anime color scheme isn't a positive for the image, but I think it outweighs the negatives of the manga versions. For the best portrait, we should use anime. 00:26, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Wrong color schemes kind of mess with the identification. It's the same reason we don't use outfits that the characters never wear in infoboxes (like those from openings, or color spreads), and that's simply because they aren't canon. 00:28, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Oh come on! That was as good as your going to get for the anime. The manga picture you keep insisting on looks like garbage. The colors look really bad, like it was done half assed for a school project. Genocyber (talk) 02:04, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

The anime image is doctored, so it's not getting used.

I'm disappointed that you cannot appreciate Oda's art. It is definitely way above a "school project". 04:16, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

We're not using this image. It's bad quality, and the colors are bad. Genocyber (talk) 07:43, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

You don't speak for everybody. Please give reasons other then "it's bad, and it's bad". Your lack of respect for the author's work is very disheartening. 09:13, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think portraits need to be "canon". Here's why:  18:46, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I uploaded a new anime version that I think is superior to all the other anime images. We should re-open this discussion based on that image. 18:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

HQ Version.

I still support the manga, strictly due to him just not being that pale. 18:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I prefer the manga version but I don't have a problem with this one either. 18:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I prefer the image JSD uploaded. 06:19, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

It has a bad angle though. 10:06, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I support using the anime version uploaded by JustSomeDude. MasterDeva (talk) 00:15, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. MasterDeva (talk) 19:15, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

I support what MasterDeva supports. 20:00, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Seconded. 14:32, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Let's have a poll then. 13:29, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

^^^^^^^ Bump. 09:15, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Poll it. 10:34, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Poll ~ And I swear, I thought that slash in the manga image looks like a penis until I saw the full picture. 01:57, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

That's exactly what I thought it was at first too, Saiyan :D WU out -  07:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

The poll should have both anime images on it. SeaTerror (talk) 15:48, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Anime avatar
Can we update this with this one?

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/160/9bra.png

Genocyber (talk) 10:37, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

No. 12:00, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

You're kidding right?

There was a poll, right above this, and a majority voted for using the manga image. So no. 12:48, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't matter Nova. That is a different image. SeaTerror (talk) 19:36, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Just because there was a poll doesn't mean you're not allowed to propose new images. The only real problem with this one is the nose is drawn weird. There are plenty of awesome anime images before, but who gives a shit about artistic integrity? 23:01, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

So, what? We can't have an anime image ever for this? This one seems to fit best, the face is front and center, the horns are visible, and the nose seems fine? Genocyber (talk) 23:57, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the face looks a bit wonky. The eyes don't look completely in their slits, and he looks slightly cross-eyed. Not to mention the nose is incomplete. It's not a bad pic, but there are better ones out there. 00:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Manga still wins compared to all other examples.

I also agree with Nada that the one you're proposing is of bad detail. 00:58, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5168/dx0h.png

Any objections to this? Genocyber (talk) 11:24, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, poor lighting, incorrect color scheme. 11:25, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

That's a very good pic, I support it. 11:25, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean incorrect color scheme? He has pale white skin. If anything, that manga pic is wrong. Genocyber (talk) 11:26, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, Caesar's face isn't pale on any scheme Oda has provided.

Even if we take the argument of scheme out, that image has poor lighting (it's in a dark room). 11:28, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

He has pale skin. Even when he goes outside its still white so its not the lighting. It's in the gosh darn intro too. Genocyber (talk) 11:33, November 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * The manga one's very good.--

He has pale skin in the anime only. You're trying to imply that the anime is more correct than the manga, which isn't true.

My argument about lighting refers to the scene. That's obviously a dark room, which obscures his face (not to mention the obvious artistic errors) 11:35, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

The manga is always correct no matter what. Just like when we had that image of Big Mom way back in the begining, and Kuma having an organge shirt. That colored picture was done before Ceasar was introduced. It's out of date in terms of skin tone. Genocyber (talk) 11:37, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

The Big Mom image was a silhouette. That is not the same type of situation. Kuma's original color scheme was orange, and then Oda changed it to fit the anime's later (probably due to liking it more, definitely a better choice).

This case is not like any of the ones you mentioned. Caesar was long introduced before the cover of Volume 68 was colored (which uses the same scheme as the current manga image), and also was introduced well before the Shonen Jump Cover that contains the current manga image was published. The anime depicting him in a different way does not make Oda's automatically wrong. 11:42, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

You forget that the anime is still an extension of Oda's work. He works alot on the anime such as various fillers and movies. If the skin tone is different than that one colored drawing he did, it means he allowed it. Genocyber (talk) 11:53, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Oda's only involvement in the anime series is the drawing of certain filler characters (only gets to design them, doesn't get any influence on their personality or background. Only devil fruits are "approved" by him) and overseeing two of the movies. Oda's main focus is the manga, and he definitely doesn't have the time to look at every little thing the anime does. The involvement you're implying doesn't exist (and I'm sure you've been told this countless times before too!) 11:56, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Your tap dancing around the fact that the anime is still his and follows his ideals. Also, you seemed to not acknowledge the silhouette of Big Mom from the manga looked nothing like her later on. A sign the manga isn't always right about every little detail. Honestly, your making a big deal out of a tiny issue that doesn't even need to be one. Genocyber (talk) 12:07, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah... you should probably look up what a silhouette is. It isn't supposed to look like the character if they haven't been introduced.

The anime is also produced and owned by Toei Animation, so yeah, the One Piece anime isn't his.

Even if I take out my argument of color, your image is still of poor artistic detail, is in a dark room, and has the glare from the monitor that makes it seem like the color is part of his face. It just isn't a good image after taking all factors into consideration. 12:11, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

And the silhouette of Big Mom looked absolutely nothing like her when she was revealed. Just like how the shichibukai silhouettes were a bunch of regular guys with swords. Your still wrong on that. Genocyber (talk) 12:29, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Are you even reading what I'm saying? "It isn't supposed to look like the character if they haven't been introduced". That's what a silhouette is. It's supposed to be "wrong".

This discussion also has zero to do with the color scheme of Caesar's portrait, since this isn't a silhouette. 12:32, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

You were missing my point. The fact that things change in the manga shows not everything Oda does is always right. Just like with colors changing to match characters. Also one thing I should bring up is the art used for the colored avatar is very smudgy looking. The anime offers plenty of cleaner shots and finer details. The one your using has the face too far away from focus, and the color muddles his expression. At least I've been trying to find pleasing shots of him. Genocyber (talk) 13:36, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

You don't seem to get that the anime is made by a different company (Toei Animation) that simply bought the copyrights by Shueisha, the publisher of the One Piece manga. Oda doesn't have any right to interfere with the anime and Toei Animation aren't expected to cooperate with Oda by any means, but Oda likes the anime very much, and when offered by Toei Animation to design/write certain things for the anime he often accepts the offer. This is mostly done in movies.

So do you seriously think that a big company like Toei Animation and a busy man like Oda (Who gets hospitalized for working too much/being too stressed) has the time to ask about every single color that Toei draws? I don't think so. Oda's way of telling the anime and the public what color a character has is coloring the volume covers, and that's it. Oda drew volume 68's cover, and Caesar is not pale there.

So one quick colored sketch he did for a jump cover has more truth than a hundred episodes of Ceasar in the show? Wow. Denial is sure thick in the air. Using that logic, nothing in the anime is even canon since Oda didn't make it. Let's just get rid of everything anime on the site! Genocyber (talk) 22:21, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Caesar has only been in the show for about 30 episodes now, so no "hundreds of episodes exist". You also probably should look up what a sketch is, since this has color, detail, and fine lines. Oda coloring him on both a volume cover, and the Shonen Jump cover do hold greater prevalence over the anime's color scheme. It doesn't matter if the anime has shown him with a certain color scheme more.

Your suggestion at the end is probably meant to incite a flame war. That is not what this conversation is supposed to imply. When Oda colors characters, and they differ from the anime, the anime is wrong. If Oda colors nothing, and the anime does, then it's fine to use the anime because there is no color alternative.

I already told you that even if I take the argument of color scheme out, your image is still poor due to lighting, glare from a monitor, and overall lack of artistic detail. Find something better if you really want to use anime, because replacing the current image with something like that would be a serious downgrade. 23:07, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Better Image
So there was a whole filler arc featuring this guy. Also images near the end of Punk Hazard. Is there a pic we can take from there that doesn't include a rip in the middle of the image? 23:38, November 14, 2014 (UTC)