User talk:Rainbowman

The Sufferage of Nami
I know that Nami has been suffering throughout the series- Manga, Anime, and the Movies. I'd appreciate it if any of you guys could give me a list of the times she had to suffer: Mostly the pains, situations, battles, and humiliations (EXCLUDING the the stupidity of most of her crewmates). I feel like there's a monster in the form of a hulking blood-soaked tiger inside of me wanting to avenge her suffering by brutally beating the ones who made her suffer. >:<7> This is the best I can do to express an extremely angry roaring face, see if any of you guys can do better. Anywho if any of you guys can pretend that you are Nami and that she sees this monster what would she do to tame it before it got out of control? And once it is tamed if it begins to cry with tears like a tiger cub what would she say to calm it? I happen to be a fan of hers and I would be hoping that she would have a marrige to Luffy because someday when I become as faumous as Eiichiro Oda by making a manga and anime series based on his characters, I hope to make Luffy and Nami's decendants centuries from the Original One Piece timeline. Give Nami my crying love for her. Rainbowman

Luffy may let these slip by, but I have a OP spinoff character that most likely won't. While not connected to the original One Piece, I have plans for Oda's Strawhat crew once his story of One Piece is over. I plan to show Oda with MY rendition of the Strawhat crew who are decendants centuries apart. One is Monkey D. Cookie- a monkey girl who is a decendant of Luffy and Nami on Luffy's branch that has powers of the Mune Mune Fruit. If the Japanese-English meaning of "Mune" is inappropriate I'll change it to something else. Another is Million D. Nickel (this D. stands for Dollor). He is an all-species feline who is a decendant of Luffy and Nami on Nami's branch that while he does not possess any devil fruit powers he has powers from different dimensions outside of OP. He's the one character that would not let Nami's suffering slip by. How he can tell that Nami has suffered is that he has a connection link with her and possibly Luffy. Any pains Nami has dealt with, Nickel can feel and that activates his dark emotions. And when those dark emotions are powerful enough he can turn into a monster of destruction. >:(><) Only love (the kind used on Luffy by Nami and/or Monkey D. Garp and wether it's gentle or not) could revert him back to normal but he can still feel the pain in his emotions making him cry and Nami would have to show some motherly love to calm him. <:(*** (crying mews) This is why I've been talking about the Luffy x Nami pairing and also why I made the "suffering" article. Rainbowman 14 June 2008

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10th Strawhat Member?
I know there isn't any info about a 10th member of the Strawhat crew yet, but do you guys have any speculations of who it might be at least? (not that I would want to place any false info in like before) My guess would be that Jewelry Bonney might join for 10th member as well as the 3rd female after Nami (1st) and Robin (2nd), the 2nd captain to join after Brook, and the 1st to eat all of Sanji's cooking without even sharing with the other crewmates. (D (wink wink) If you have any true info or speculations at least, let me know. Rainbowman 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I seriously doubt Jewelry Bonney would join up with the strawhat crew. I mean first off, she's a captain who still has a crew. She can't just leave them behind. Second off, she's one of the Eleven Supernovas, meaning that she's a rival to Luffy. I doubt she'll give up everything she's earned and worked for to join the Strawhat's crew. She may fight alongside him sometime in the future though...that's always an option. --Klthesaint 23:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I could certainly see your point there. Well, I do have other options for the 10th member. There's Camie who seems to be a good friend. There's also Hatchan as he's no longer with Arlong's crew; wether or not he decides to double-cross and rejoin the enemy is yet to be seen. >:( (cat growls and hisses) Another would be that Mr. Silvers Rayliegh mechanic. Here's a question about him: Is he the supposed father of Franky as mentioned by the Franky Family? Rainbowman 3 June 2008

Well, Silvers is retired. He is insanely strong but he's a little too strong for Luffy's crew. Remember when Shakky said that the coating mechanic was "100 times stronger than all you boys" (eleven supernovas)? But, whether or not he's Franky's father is debatable. Also if you think about it, every Strawhat member seems to have a skill that they're virtually perfect in and Sanji's already the cook, so they have no need for Hatchan (plus it seems like he's about to die). If he does die then that may be a reason for Camie to join but I don't see how she'll be able to do anything. Every member of the crew so far has been able to fight and that tradition may continue. You never know what might come out of Oda's head next --Klthesaint 13:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand that Hatchan is dying. When I suggested about Hatchan being a member, the position of cook wasn't what I was thinking of. I was thinking more that he would be like a pirate grunt (the most common members in all pirate crews). As for Camie (if she does join the crew) she might make herself useful if her tail splits in two. As demonstrated by Kokoro: Mermaids may walk on land when they are thirty years old, their tails split into two. So what do you guys suppose her age is? And if any of you guys think she might join the crew, what position would she have? <:/ (puzzling face) Rainbowman 10 June 2008


 * Tenth member? We haven't had the nineth yet!  :-O


 * Zoro
 * Nami
 * Usopp
 * Sanji
 * Chopper
 * Robin
 * Franky
 * Brook


 * Luffy isn't counted in the numbering scheme. The only dream I think Hatchi could follow it to finally win the love of Octopako. Camie also has a dream to be a designer.  Camie is less then thirty, thats all we know, I'd pitch her at about 20 at the most.  :-/ One-Winged Hawk 08:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well excuse me if I happen to include the captain as the first member of the Strawhat crew. Harumph! >:Z (grumbles) As for those dreams you mentioned, it may be a good boost for joining the crew. As I said for Camie: If she does join, what position would she have in the crew? I know all the other positions are important.


 * Luffy-Captain
 * Zoro-First Mate
 * Nami-Navigator
 * Usopp-Marksman
 * Sanji-Cook
 * Chopper-Doctor
 * Robin-Archaeologist
 * Franky-Shipwright
 * Brook-Musician

What other positions would be left for more members?Rainbowman 10 June 2008


 * Oh no, nothing against you for it, just a lot of people don't realize that when Luffy stated he wanted ten crew men, that it doesn't include himself. A lot of other fans are used to explaining this and we have got into this habbit of... ^-^'


 * Well, don't take it too personnelly, these things happen. Best to laugh and forget it happened and not let it get to you... We've all been noobs at some point and got a lot of stick from those that weren't so I guess what goes around comes around.  Sorry, I do apologize.   ;-D One-Winged Hawk 17:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well there's no telling what other positions would be left for other pirates but you have to remember that there's a pattern for the members of Straw Hat's crew. 1) They have some type of tragic or hard past. 2) They have at least one skill that they're virtually perfect in and 3) Each member must be able to fight in some form or fashion. Hatchan matches 3 n he might have a tragic past with the discrimination in the park but he's extemely weak compared to the straw hats now. I believe that they'll either meet someone in fishman island or in the New World. --Klthesaint 16:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Say there Klthesaint what's with that "n" there next to "Hatchan matches 3" in the sentance? Rainbowman 11 July 2008

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My guess is that either Hatchi or Camie will join as diver. Sunken treasure is hard to get if only half of the crew can swim.--Shuraiya Bascùd 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

One Piece movie 10
I have some questions about this upcoming movie:


 * If Eiichiro Oda is writing this movie himself, is it really a canon story or just another filler story?
 * If Nami was leaving the crew for some reason, this wouldn't be permanent would it? (I should hope not, that's more suffering than I can handle) <:( (nervous)
 * Who is this "Gold Lion" character?

a. Is he a Shichibukai? b. Is he a traitorous Yonkou? c. What connection does he have with Nami? If you know the answers to these questions let me know. Rainbowman 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * From the trailer, it seems to be using established elements of OP to tell a different story. I could be wrong though.  :-/ One-Winged Hawk 19:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

/:( (confused) OK, does anyone else have any ideas? Rainbowman 3 June 2008

Come on, any info you guys can find would be most useful. I just don't want Nami to be out of the entire One Piece story, that would break my heart. <:<*** (crying mews) Rainbowman


 * I think the problem is, a lot of us know as much as you do... Some even less... Strange isn't it how the details of this movie are being super hush-hush top secret. O_O One-Winged Hawk 16:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

He is probably a former (traitorious?) admiral: color(gold) + animal(lion) = admiral.--Shuraiya Bascùd 18:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Strawhat Representations
I have here different lists of things of trivia on the Strawhat crew. They are:


 * 1. Occupations


 * Luffy- Captain
 * Zoro- First Mate
 * Nami- Navigator
 * Usopp- Marksman
 * Sanji- Cook
 * Chopper- Doctor
 * Robin- Archaeologist
 * Franky- Shipwright
 * Brook- Musician


 * 2. Animals


 * Luffy- Monkey
 * Zoro- Shark
 * Nami- Cat
 * Usopp- Armadillo
 * Sanji- Duck
 * Chopper- Reindeer
 * Robin- Crane
 * Franky- Bull
 * Brook- Horse


 * 3. Color


 * Luffy- Red
 * Zoro- Green
 * Nami- Orange
 * Usopp- Yellow
 * Sanji- Blue (standard)
 * Chopper- Pink
 * Robin- Purple
 * Franky- Blue (Cyan)
 * Brook- Black and White


 * 4. Smells


 * Luffy- Meat
 * Zoro- Steel
 * Nami- Money and Mikan (Oranges)
 * Usopp- Gunpowder
 * Sanji- Seafood and Cigarettes
 * Chopper- Unknown (->
 * Robin- Flowers
 * Franky- Cola
 * Brook- Tea


 * 5. Birthdates and Zodiac Signs


 * Luffy- May 5 Taurus
 * Zoro- November 11 Scorpio
 * Nami- July 3 Cancer
 * Usopp- April 1 Aries
 * Sanji- March 2 Pisces
 * Chopper- December 24 Capricorn
 * Robin- February 6 Aquarius
 * Franky- March 9 Pisces
 * Brook- April 3 Aries


 * 6. Food


 * Luffy- Meat
 * Zoro- White Rice, Sea Monster Meat and anything that goes with Ale
 * Nami- Oranges and all other Fruit
 * Usopp- Pike from Autumn Island and other fish of the season; Dislikes Mushrooms
 * Sanji- Spicy Seafood Pasta and stuff that goes with Black Tea
 * Chopper- Cotton Candy, Chocolate, and other sweet stuff
 * Robin- Sandwiches, Semi-sweet Cakes and stuff that goes with Coffee
 * Franky- Hamburgers, French Fries and stuff that goes with Cola (Junk Food basically)
 * Brook-


 * 7. Friends (Alive)


 * Luffy- Shanks, Makino
 * Zoro- ?
 * Nami- Nojiko
 * Usopp- Kaya
 * Sanji- Zeff
 * Chopper- Kureha
 * Robin- ?
 * Franky- Mozu, Kiwi, Iceburg
 * Brook- Laboon


 * 8. Friends (Dead)


 * Luffy- ?
 * Zoro- Kuina (not that she really is dead)
 * Nami- Bellemere
 * Usopp- Banchina
 * Sanji- ?
 * Chopper- Dr. Hiriluk
 * Robin- Professer Clover, Nico Olivia (dead until proven otherwise)
 * Franky- Tom
 * Brook- Calico Yorki

Retrieved from "http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User:Rainbowman"

Tell me what you make of these. Note: On the friends (alive) category, I only put in those that I think are the most closest. If I'm missing anything let me know. Rainbowman 10 July 2008

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Questions for Eiichiro Oda
Ok guys we all have questions to ask Mr. Eiichiro Oda especially me. Most of my questions have to do with Devil Fruit. See if you can get these questions to him by any means possible:


 * Will there be a Devil Fruit called the Yugi Yugi no mi (Light Light fruit) to counter with Blackbeard's Yami Yami no mi (Dark Dark fruit)? The way I see it you can't have Darkness without Light.
 * Are Devil Fruit really man-made? Because if they are there's a chance they can be modified and upgraded.
 * How do weapons get infused with Zoan type abilities? i.e.: Lassoo the dachsund gun and Funkfreed the elephant sword.
 * Are there Zoan type fruits based on fish and aquatic creatures? If so what would the curse be if they could swim in ocean water and not sink like a hammer? Most fish and some mammals live in the ocean.
 * Is it possible for the entire Strawhat crew to have Devil Fruit powers? If so what would they be?
 * Are there any Logia type fruit based on the following elements?:
 * Fire (check)
 * Earth (Soil, Rocks, Sand, etc.) (semi check)
 * Lightning (check)
 * Plants (Trees, Flowers, Wood, etc.)
 * Water
 * Wind
 * Ice (check)
 * Metal (Gold, Silver, Copper, Tin, etc.)
 * Time
 * Space
 * Light
 * Darkness (check)

BTW some of the Devil Fruit questions you just noticed were asked about by my brother, whose Nickname goes by "Pyros Aves" because he has a phoenix theme. His E-mail adress is: WPAlthoff@aol.com if you would like to contact him.

Here are a couple of personal questions that you don't have to send to him:
 * Who would have a better relationship with Robin: Sanji or Franky?

I noticed that Luffy had some conflicts with his crew members resulting in battling each other.
 * Luffy Vs Zolo in Whiskey Peak
 * Luffy Vs Vivi in Alabasta during which Vivi was a temporary member
 * Luffy Vs Usopp in Skypiea
 * Luffy Vs Chopper in the Davey Back Fight after using 2 rumble balls under 1 hour making Chopper somewhat berserk. So I ask this:
 * Will there be a conflict with Luffy and Nami? If so what would cause them to battle each other? (I might imagine that Luffy would get angry with Nami's greed and this battle would feel like "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" particurally the long battle with Obi-Wan Vs Anikin)

Tell me what you think. Rainbowman 18 June 2008

If anyone has any comments on these questions, post them here. I'd be happy to see your answers on these questions wether or not you sent them to Oda already. Rainbowman 6 July 2008

OK I shortened the discussion by deleting half of the Devil Fruit questions. As to the question on wether Devil Fruit were man-made, I've read something about it in a book called "The One Piece Adventurer- A Treasure Trove of Trivia" which is number 12 in the "Mysteries and Secrets Revealed!" series. Keep those answers coming. Rainbowman 10 July 2008

Sorry I had to do this Sephirona but I had to delete your reply to make this discussion shorter but not before I copied it onto my talkpage notepad file as I appreciated some of the answers you gave. Again, keep those answers coming. Rainbowman 11 July 2008

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Key things about Forums

 * Forum; Got an e-mail adress right?


 * Okay there are a couple I go to (links on my user page). But essentially there are some key things about forums.


 * don't post any "Noob" comments like "Sanji mine!" as its the sign of immaturity (or rather 13 years oldism) that the current members hate. Unless they are a forum of 13 year olds in which case... Welcome to Hell because every other 13 year old will say the same thing on that forum.  What a mess... -_-'
 * Presume everyone is a expert on OP so there is no need to post "BTW did you know...?"
 * Start by entering current discussions on the board rather then go into a new topic straight away - get used posting.
 * The Search tool on every forum is your friend.
 * Don't let the trolls (gerks on the forums who are there to post and be jerks) get to you, continue posting but don't get into an arguement with them.
 * Most important rule. Obey the forums rules... The mods and admins won't think twice on some forums before banning.


 * Overall, Arlong Park is the best OP forum, but a rough forum for rookies. I suggest K-F fansubs forums as its a gentle nudge for beginners and New Babylon would suggest his fav...The One Piece HQ.  Visit more then one forum, keeping posting reguardless of events on one forum. A forum becomes your "home" on the net and you need to find one that comfortableas well as gain experience posting.  I always recommending finding a small community to begin with before you plough to the experienced fan places like Arlong Park.


 * Incidently, while its avoidable for the most part, sooner or later every OP fan needs to break into AP, no matter how much the guys there are jerks. Its the best place on the net for fans to gather adn there is a lot of info passed there that never makes it out of that forum.  If you miss it... :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 06:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

To Miss One-Winged Hawk, I looked on your userpage and saw your country was UK- England, so basically you're a brittish fan of One Piece which would explain why you have no Independence Day. Looking at your article on "Reading Problems" I find that being a brittish who has dyslexia is rather ironic, for I always thought that most brittish people would have great diction (reading, spelling, being proper, etc.). Well anywho, I gotta ask: What did you mean by "every OP fan needs to break into AP" and what exactly does the "AP" mean? Rainbowman 8 July 2008

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Calling One-Winged Hawk, come in One-Winged Hawk, I'm having trouble getting into Kaizuko-fansubs, I gave them my e-mail adress and I used a couple passwords, but I can't get logged in because I seem to have "the wrong username/password" for each time. What do I do? <:O (grunts "oh no") Rainbowman 9 July 2008

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Nami x Luffy fan
Wasn't you... You'd be surprised how many dumbos there are on wikipedia. That guy was unbelieveable. He wrote fanfiction into fact on the pages and it took us 5-7 goes to get off. You're the second person to read my "quit" section wrong, I should rewrite that better somehow if it continues. It references only wikipedia things and is nothing to do with this wikia. --One-Winged Hawk 23:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * BTW, I have to tell you off for this as you shouldn't do it. But don't leave messages on other people's user page, its like a personal space for them. Yeah, that's not really a biggie so don't worry about that.  I don't mind, just get annoyed a little.  The only time I do that is to help explain something to someone on how to set something on that page up.  --One-Winged Hawk 23:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. It's just that I had to find some way to contact someone and ask them about something. I feel embarassed on having to write on your personal space. <:) (hehe) Rainbowman 6 July 2008

BTW, there is one MAJOR factor about the Luffy x Nami relation that I should hope would make all other pairings with Nami look thier weakest: Nami is the only member Luffy trusts in holding onto his hat. >(D Rainbowman 6 July 2008

-During the Davy Back fight, Ussop can be seen wearing Luffy's hat. Episodes 218-219. I'll look up the manga of this, to make sure, but I think it is cannon...As far as pairings its not going to happen during the show that is until an epilogue. Thegrim 04:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure that it is, but can't confirm since I can't bring myself to watch that arc. Its not the best of arcs to bare with as such.  :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 06:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know who you are Mr. Thegrim, but you have some nerve to spoil my mood towards the Luffy x Nami pairing. >:( (cat growls) Sure there won't be pairings in the show until near the end of One Piece let alone the epilogue but you just wait and see. As for why Luffy would let Usopp hold his hat I'm not sure, but it had nothing to do with a male x female pairing which is the subject for Luffy and Nami. Besides Luffy had to have given his hat to Nami more times than Usopp (Why else would there be a figure of Nami wearing a straw hat?). Unless you have proof from the manga about Usopp holding Luffy's hat you've made a mistake on the straw hat itself. Rainbowman 7 July 2008


 * Hey, hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion. ;-)


 * I'm with the idea that Nami was given the hat to prove to her that Luffy wants her as a crew member - if he didn't want her on the crew he wouldn't have left it with her. It was a reinsurance in a time when she was falling apart. --One-Winged Hawk 06:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Found the manga that goes with the anime though its strange of why Oda made this arc seeing that it is probably the shortest arc which makes me wonder if it is intended to be filler yet Oda did write it....anyways the is from volume 33 and  is from volume 34 chapter 318. The anime image that goes along with that that comes from 219..hopefully you can make it out in the pictures. If not I'll try uploading it on my page. By count he has given Nami his hat 2x (Arlong and Skypia), and Ussop once, and if you want to count the One Piece movie 8: Vivi as well. There is a lot more meaning behind him giving the hat to Nami (and Vivi as well in the movie), but he gives the hat to Ussop because he can't wear it with the afro. Btw im trying not to kill your LuXNa thing, its just that the argument doesn't hold up anymore, though there is a ton of more evidence plus when One Piece Movie 10 will add a lot of firewood to it; though it is possible for Nami to leave the crew indefinitely (speculation)...sadly we wont find out till 2010-11 Thegrim 01:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Well I could certainly see your point on how Luffy's hat won't fit when he's wearing the afro. XD (wheezing laugh) Now I don't know if this counts but there is a time when Nami was seen wearing Luffy's hat in one of the Japanese openings particularly the one with the song "Crazy Rainbow" in it. I'm glad you understand my feelings toward the Luffy x Nami relationship and telling me there may be more evidence of it in One Piece Movie 10, but PUHLEASE DO NOT mention that Nami would leave the crew indefinitely. That would kill the purpose of Nami's dream of making the ultimate chart of the world and also any chances I have of making decendants based on her and Luffy. XP (Game Over) Besides Nami has yet to meet Lola's Mother as Nami still holds the card Lola gave her. As to Movie 10, it will be released in Japan in 2009. It's release in America is yet to be known as the movie is still under production in Japan. Rainbowman 8 July 2008


 * Very little is known about Movie 10 and what that particular scene in trailer meant. But there is one that is certain, Nami will not leave the crew and stop being apart of the crew. Even if that happens, it won't and can't be considered canon. Most One Piece movies tend to take place in situations that can't fit into manga storyline. They're like the Dragon Ball movies that don't make sense when trying to tie them with the main story. A good example is Chopper's Kingdom on the Island of Strange Animals, where it shows the Straw Hats with Chopper but no Vivi or Robin. A better example is Episode of Chopper Plus where the Straw Hats are trying to recruit Chopper after getting Robin, Franky, and the Thousand Sunny. So basically whatever happens in Movie 10, even if it ruins LxN, it ain't gonna be canon.17:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for making me feel better Mugiwara (Master) Franky. <:) (phew) I knew that Movie 10 will not be canon but rather just another filler despite that it will be written by Oda, I just wish all the other fans would realize this. With what you said about Nami not ever
 * leaving and
 * having to stop being a part of the crew

I know now that there would be no evidence in Movie 10 to ruin Luffy x Nami (at least none that I can think of). Oh BTW, you forgot to post your username to your reply. <X) (oopsie) Rainbowman 9 July 2008

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Yo!
I'm going to have to slap you on the wrist - while you can sort of get away with forum-like discussions on your talk page, you shouldn't do it on normal pages. Don't worry, it really is a slap on the wrist and not a shot in the heart. --One-Winged Hawk 22:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also you should find a home for those pics if they haven't got one other then your user page. Wikias are not photobucket and should not  be used for hosting.  Again I'm just slapping you on the wrist here, but you need to use some common sense here.  If you don't the next step is warnings leading up to punishment.  And I really don't want MF to ban you... Just think about  it before you act okay?   --One-Winged Hawk 22:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I'll be good. <:( (crying mews) Rainbowman 8 July 2008

It's just I thought when each page had discussion on it I should discuss something. Even though I'm an adult, I'm as curious as a kitten. I guess I deserve to be punished for the lack of common sense I tend to have, just not banishment. Could you ever forgive me?Rainbowman 8 July 2008


 * Its not a big thing, we (signed up editors) here to keep the quality in check. As a I said, I'm just giving you a slap on the wrist. Actaully, not many people who sign up realise this but their suppose to be doing everything I do.  We monitor things, and we find faults and all we do the things that keep the site moving smoothy.  So if you see a vandal, for example, you need to inform them that there are rules.  It goes;


 * note they broke the rules.
 * 3 warnings, write this on their talk page.
 * final banning message, stating they are now liable to be banned.
 * write it on the "Users to be banned page" and the rest is left to MF to decide what to do.


 * This part of our job is to make M.Franky's (this site equallent to a admin) job easier to do. Your not a vandal though, your just inexperienced, but you need to get adapted quickly because you can be treated lke a vandal just the same. :-/ --One-Winged Hawk 06:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

So, what pics were we talking about? Rainbowman 8 July 2008


 * The ones in the discussion above. --One-Winged Hawk 06:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Working on it. Rainbowman 12 July 2008

Pronouciation of Roronoa Zoro
I know FUNimation decides to keep Zoro's name in the series but do you think they have a way of keeping this copyright seperate with the copyright of Zorro? Here's how I pronounce them to tell them apart:


 * Zorro= Zor-oh
 * Zoro= Zoh-roh

Just something I'd bring up. Rainbowman 9 July 2008

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Kizaru and Rayleigh- Similarities and Differences
I can't help but notice a similarity with Kizaru and Rayleigh- they both have beards in a stripe pattern. Any idea why that is? Rainbowman 15 July 2008