Forum:Island vs. Kingdom Pages

This topic was first brought up in Talk:Sakura Kingdom in which it was pointed out that the article is a stub and has little difference from Drum Island, so the pages should be merged. This then led into a discussion as to other similar cases, such as Zou and Mokomo Dukedom, where the latter page is a stub and only restates info from Zou's page, as well as Whiskey Peak and Cactus Island.

I believe that when there is not enough info to create two full and distinct articles, then cases such where a kingdom or city makes up the near entirety of an island, then the two pages should be merged. We currently do this with Alabasta, where its island, named Sandy Island, is mentioned in the article. It's not really standard whether the island or kingdom name should be used, but it would be better to just name it after the most well-known area.

Thus, I support putting Mokomo Dukedom into Zou, Sakura Kingdom into Drum Island, and Cactus Island into Whiskey Peak if this passes. Feel free to suggest other examples that I may have overlooked. 13:13, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm all for using the more well-known of the two. For example, until the Alabasta discussion started I didn't even know the island was called Sandy Island, and Alabasta is waaaaay more fleshed out and important than the other cities on the island. Compare that to, say, Dressrosa, which has multiple named locations but none that are the focal point of the entire arc, an area where the Straw Hats spend a lot of time, etc., so it makes more sense to use the Island name. Just my two cents.--Xilinoc (talk) 23:18, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

Here's a list of cases where this happens and a brief personal opinion, just for referencing:


 * Goa Kingdom/Dawn Island (essentially the same place, like Alabasta/Sandy Kingdom. The island itself doesn't deserve a page.)
 * Syrup Village/Gecko Islands (Very few people probably know of Gecko Islands. Syrup Village is the main focus of the Kuro arc, but we do see Kaya travelling to other unnamed towns. I think the island by itself might deserve the page if we count the Kuro Pirates fight as not part of Syrup, otherwise just have it as a mention in Syrup Village.)
 * Cocoyasi Village/Conomi Islands (Like Gecko Islands, Conomi is not well-known. Cocoyasi is the important one here, but the other villages and towns in Conomi also get some references here and there, including a character coming from one and the fact that Arlong Park is there as well, so Conomi Islands could have its own page.)
 * Loguetown/Polestar Islands (Only Loguetown is important, really. Already follows the Sandy Island treatment)
 * Whiskey Peak/Cactus Island (Whiskey Peak could work by itself. The rest of Cactus Island doesn't really matter)
 * Drum Island/Sakura Kingdom (Literally no difference. However, unlike Alabasta, the island's name is more well-known than the kingdom name.)
 * Alabasta/Sandy Island (technically, they're the same as the kingdom of Alabasta covers the entire island. People barely know what Sandy Island is.)
 * Skypiea/Upper Yard (Both can have their own pages. Upper Yard is just a specific, but distinct part of Skypiea).
 * Fishman Island/Ryugu Kingdom (Tricky. Apparently, the Ryugu Kingdom is just like Alabasta, where the kingdom comprises all of Fishman Island + outside areas the Fishman District and the sea forest. Fishman Island is still the most well-known name, though. I suppose it wouldn't be a stretch to include the district and the forest as part of the island.).
 * Dressrosa (The simplest one. The island has the name as the kingdom).
 * Zou/Mokomo Dukedom (Mokomo Dukedom could easily be a subsection of Zou as suggested).

So yeah, I kinda agree with Kaido's proposal, but i would also include Ryugu Kingdom into Fishman Island.

Also give Dawn Island the Sandy Island treatment and just be a mention of Goa Kingdom. The current Goa Kingdom page is just a description of the capital Goa, even though Foosha Village and the Mt. Colubo are also part of the kingdom. Instead of a high-quality page, we get two subpar ones (Don't know how Dawn Island became featured) that also potentially give false info. KingCannon (talk) 01:33, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

I DEFINITELY support this idea. There are a ton of location stubs that are unnecessary pages (and this is coming from the guy who pretty much only destubs articles). Though there is an issue of how to decide, I think the more identifiable names should be used (Zou, Drum Island, Whiskey Peak). It is really a case-to-case basis on how this'll be decided because, as Cannon mentioned, some locations are tricky (Conomi and Ryugu to be specific). 21:53, May 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't like much the "let's keep the more popular name". It should be a consistent criteria, personally I would opt for always using the island name as base in these cases (so yeah, rename alabasta to sandy).
 * I feel merging is generally a valid options between kigdoms&islands and between smaller stuff (cities, places) and the island. I would definitely avoid merging islands in city pages (Conomi in Cocoyasi) or other smaller but better known places since they are too different subjects
 * Whatever you are merging, you should categorize the redirects. For example, "Sandy Island" should be categorized as an island. That's because categories are supposed to be some sort of "lists" and if you merge a page you are removing it from the categorization. If you think that's weirs, it is actually commonly done on Wikipedia for example. This is also true for every merged article.
 * We should rename Category:Multiple Characters Articles in "Category:Articles on Multiple Subjects" or something similar and use it to track all the pages which have merged articles.

I am against merging. The problem with merging is that a serious problem happens when we look at categories. For instance putting "Syrup Village" into "East Blue Islands" is flat-out incorrect. We need to have separate articles for separate things.

The real issue is content management. We need to control what content is on which article, so that the two are more distinct. For example, Drum Island has a history section, whereas Sakura Kingdom pretty much has only a history section. What needs to happen is ideas specific to the island (geography, climate, animal inhabitants, physical aspects of the island) need to be kept on the island article. The Kingdom article should have things like citizens, history, and other concepts related to the citizenship/politcal structure. Content shouldn't be 100% removed from both articles though. For example, the history of "Drum Island" should talk about the history of the physical island, and then direct you to the main article, the Sakura Kingdom's history section. AND the history section of the Sakura Kingdom should be very short when it comes to the events of the Drum Island arc, as most of the history there should be contained on the page Drum Island Arc, and you should be referred there instead.

Overall, we need to make pages more unique, not falsely merge pages that should be independent. 18:22, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

What JSD said. 17:58, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Island articles should be about its geography, climate, animals, plants, how the environment influenced the people (i.e. Skypiea, Rusukaina, etc), stuff that are unique to the island, basically anything that is related to the island itself. Kingdom articles should be about the people itself, as well as the history of the civilization on the island, the culture, society, government, etc.

An example of this in real life would be Australia the country and Australia the continent. Though Austrlia the country is located on Australia the continent, they are two different entities, and we refer to them as such. I might be making a bad example but you get the point.

Rather, we need to actually rewrite the island and kingdom articles so the information are in the proper articles, instead of falsely (not to mention sloppily!) merging them together out of laziness. 03:19, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

So what are we gonna do about this? I support keeping both the pages and putting some certain rules about what to write in kingdom pages and what to write in island pages. 15:50, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

Jade's suggestions sound pretty good. 17:39, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed is anyone against it? 18:08, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me 19:22, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

In this case, do we create pages for Sandy Island and Polestar Islands? KingCannon (talk) 19:39, December 13, 2016 (UTC)