Talk:Nefertari Family

Chapter 823
In Chapter 823, both Vivi's and Cobra's names are romanized by Oda as "Nefeltari." Since we use more recent romanizations, should the pages be renamed? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:29, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

I think we need to wait for mangastream first

Joekido (talk) 12:53, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed to wait for Mangastream, but it is the spelling in big English letters. NEFELTARI VIVI. There's not much to debate, we changed other names once we got the accurate spelling for them.

13:06, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Oh look, the MS version is out and they spell it Nefeltari. Now do we actually need to debate this, or are we just changing it?

13:25, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

I say we wait until the volume version, aka the final version, comes out. Remember when Rosinante's last name was spelled as "Donquijote" in the flashback? Corrected in the volume release. Same applies here, we shouldn't make kneejerk changes based on the often error-containing jump versions of the chapters.--Xilinoc (talk) 13:33, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Donquijote had been spelt Donquixote a dozen times before. This is the first time there's been a romanization for Nefeltari - it's never been Nefertari. The situation's completely different. No reason not to just change it now. 104.238.32.48 13:39, April 14, 2016 (UTC)


 * Fully agreed, more likely to be a mistake. -Adv193 (talk) 13:59, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Don't wait for Mangastream. Wait for raws. The Chinese (Korean?) scans redraw the romanizations and have done so incorrectly in the past. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 15:54, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Here's a LQ pic of that scene in the raw.

http://i.imgur.com/flc4eRA.jpg

It can clearly be seen that it is romanized as Nefeltari. But I agree with the others. We should wait until the volume comes out to see if it was a mistake. Ddog892 (talk) 18:41, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Just remind me, where did we see "Nefertari" romanized before? Because if this is the first instance of it, we should change it. 19:26, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

The real issue now is that we need a bot to change all the Nefertaris littered around the wiki Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:54, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

The bot won't be a problem. Do you remember where we first saw "Nefertari" romanized? 19:58, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Wait for the volume releases. SeaTerror (talk) 20:01, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm only asking, because if there hasn't been any romanization of "Nefertari" prior to this, the whole argument would be invalid because an original would not be a basis for a mistake. 20:04, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Nefertari is cited as being first used with Vivi in chapter 110, and Cobra in 142. Can anyone track down those raws to see if it's romanized? 03:37, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

I already said above that it's never been romanized as Nefertari. Besides, Oda didn't romanize names outside of wanted posters and databooks until Sabaody. Feel free to look for it yourself if you want, but you won't find anything. 107.6.123.9 10:04, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

If those are indeed the first romanizations of their names, which they seem to be, I don´t think we should have to wait for the volume. Oda spelled out Nefeltari twice, if he did it once it could be a mistake but twice seems much less likely. We changed Rocinante to Rosinante when his name was romanized, didn´t we? Even if it is fixed later it can be easily changed back with a bot. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 12:16, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

I'm forced to assume that we've been using the Funimation translation so far, as nothing I can find apart from some early versions (with spurious reliability) that suggest the name does indeed have an L or R sound after the first two syllables. So either we poll this yet again, or we accept that the romanisation Oda has shown is accurate, and if the volume changes it then we change it again. There's seriously no harm in the second option, just a little wasted time if it does change again.

12:20, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

If we don't have an earlier romanization than this one, then this one becomes the original. We can't argue with evidence we don't have. Actual fact should outweigh collective belief. We should move it to Nefeltari. 20:19, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

Leave it 24 hours just in case someone objects, but yeah, we're changing it.

21:33, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

It's already been over 48 hours. Just move it. 21:36, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

All the pages/templates/images have been renamed. Just need a bot to get the remaining Nefertaris scattered around articles. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:15, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

Potential Promotion?
I've seen some sources saying that this Family can become World Nobility if they requested. But I'm not too sure, if that's accurate.--Observer Supreme 01:17, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, you've read a really bad translation.

The Nefertari family was one of the 20 families that founded the World Government. However, the Nefertari family chose to remain in their own kingdom, whereas the other 19 families abandoned their kingdoms and became the Tenryubito, living in Mariejois.

13:13, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

Nefeltari or Nefertari
Alright, so Oda's romanized it as Nefertari in 906. He spelled it as Nefeltari in 823. Generally, in cases of names that are romanized multiple times in different ways, we usually go by preference.

I'm in support of Nefertari, given that the spelling matches up to the real-world Egyptian name, plus recency. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 07:07, June 1, 2018 (UTC)

Nefertari since it's the most recent and also better. SeaTerror (talk) 07:09, June 1, 2018 (UTC)

We should use Nefertari. --Klobis (talk) 10:31, June 1, 2018 (UTC)

Look Oda has a habit on flipflopping romanized names, until the volume comes out or when Cobra's name is Romanized in a recent chapter I'm for Nefeltari.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 23:01, June 1, 2018 (UTC)

Will of D.
Thought it would be best to discuss the topic on this page, to encompass Vivi, Cobra, and Titi.

The question: Do we rename their pages to include the D.?

Well for Titi the answer should be a hard no. She married into the family, and there's no indication the D. is passed through marriage.

Vivi and Cobra, on the other hand...

On one side, it's directly confirmed that the D. is part of their name. So you can make the argument that it wouldn't be speculative to insert it between their surname of Nefertari and their given names.

On the other side, we typically have a very strict policy of only calling characters what they are called in the story, with few exceptions. A notable example is Trafalgar Lami who was just Lami for a while, even with her brother having both a surname and, relevantly, the D. However, this is a bit of a unique situation because, as noted above, the D. being in their name is a cold hard fact, we just don't have their full names explicitly written. Amending their names would invite the remote, but reasonable, possibility that the D. isn't placed in their names the way we would automatically assume it.

Personally, although I believe renaming Vivi and Cobra's articles would not be overstepping policy, I would prefer to wait a bit before committing. It would keep us from doing anything rash, and hopefully gives the chance for the situation to be explained in its entirety rather than just going off a wham cliffhanger line. And to be clear, I've already ensured that it is made very clear in the intros of their articles that they possess the D. But as far as I'm concerned, renaming would not be the end of the world either.

Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 18:53, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

In this case it's not only a direct correlation by them being descendants of Lili, but Cobra said Sabo "tell Luffy and Vivi we are D." as well. I don't see a motive to not rename them.AcXAcX (talk) 18:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I'd support renaming their articles in the same way that Nefertari D. Lili's was. Based on how it was placed in her name, it seems reasonable to assume it's the same for them. And even if it's later revealed to be different, we can always fix it then. Walrsu (talk) 19:00, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I am fine with the presently these names on their pages for now, but not to perform a page move until something concrete comes along either from a databook or a later chapter. For the moment I have remove the D. reference for Cobra and Vivi from the Will of D. Gallery until this debate is over. -Adv193 (talk) 19:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

We do know the D. initial is passed from parent to child, as we have seen with Garp-Dragon-Luffy, Roger-Ace, then Rouge-Ace. Saul also said all his family shared the initial. Even though we don't want to assume everybody from those families have inherited the initial (i.e. Trafalgar Lami, whom we have no confirmation), Cobra straight up said "We are D. too". Moving the pages seems safe. 11th Nakama (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I support Naming them Nefertari D. Vivi & Cobra. That's the information the new chapter gave, and I don't think waiting until they're explicitly named "Nefertari D. Vivi" in a Vivre Card or Volume intro is necessary for now. I predict they might not necessarily be named that way in a volume intro anyways, just for marketing or spoil purposes. Lami still feels up in the air to me, though. I wish someone would ask Oda about that. 20:31, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

While they will likely have the initial D. in their names somewhere, I think we should hold off until their names are presented in that manner. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 22:12, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

While I wish we knew more about how the initial's lineage factor works, I think it's safe to move them based on what Cobra said. Let's leave Titi alone for now just to be safe, since, like I said, we don't know enough about the lineage factor. 22:21, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I think we can move the pages. Cobra said they bear the D in their names, and knowing how it is placed in Nefertari D. Lili's name, I don't see a reason to wait. If it ends up being a situation like Law with two surnames (e.g. Titi has a separate surname), we can change it later. 22:31, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

No I disagree regardless of Lili possess the D. in her name I think we should wait until more information is presented such as how her lineage of is present. Since Lami wasn't state to be a D. I think we should wait until Cobra and Vivi name are present in that manner. Cdswalkthrough (talk) 00:51, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't officially confirmed if they use the D. so it should be left out until actually confirmed. SeaTerror (talk) 05:19, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Having and using are not the same thing. Law has the D but doesn't use it, at least not publicly, and we moved his page. We know the Nefertaris have it at least. If that was enough to move Law, it should be enough here. 20:56, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I’m on the side of renaming Cobra and Vivi since we have the naming convention for the family already. Titi is a hard no since she married in. My only hesitation is that since it seems like the D was new knowledge for Cobra, that the two of them might not have been given the name at birth. 12:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)