Forum:Raw and scan images policy: vote

It's about time to start the voting process for the raw and scan images policy. This forum is the continuation of the topic of Forum:RAW Japanese Manga Images, so if you don't know what are we talking about read it before voting.

Note: ''The issue of choosing between raw and scans is present only when there is text in the image. Watermarked images are not accepted in any case, since they violated our image guidelines and the scanlation groups' terms of use (like mangastream).''

Poll
The restrictions for voting are, unless the community says otherwise, min 300 edits and 3 month on the wiki. The restriction are only for voting, not for the discussion.

The poll will last two weeks, so it will end at the 00:00 am of the 28th July. (if you want to change the duration discuss it).

1. Allowing the use of scanlation images with fan-made English text? (without blank out the speech bubbles)
 * Yes. Examples:


 * 1) SeaTerror 08:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, remove the text added by the scanlation group. (except special cases) Examples:


 * 23:07, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 23:34, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Klobis 00:01, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) 海賊-姫 00:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 00:52, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) --//excatly what I wanted ...
 * 16:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * 16:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Neutral.

2. Order of preference between images (raws/scans):
 * When a good scan is available, there is no need to upload the raw one. Examples:


 * 23:07, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 00:52, July 14, 2011 (UTC) The raw's are somewhat distracting, you instinctively try to decipher them (but obviously can't unless you understand japanese).
 * 1) SeaTerror 08:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror 08:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * When a good raw is available, update the scan image with the raw one. Examples:


 * 23:34, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Klobis 00:01, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) 海賊-姫 00:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) 海賊-姫 00:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Choose the raw over the scan regardless the quality. Examples:


 * 1)  16:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

The scan: The raw: The scan: The raw:
 * Other comparison between raw/scans:


 * Neutral.
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

2.1 For chapter covers:
 * Use always the scans. Examples:




 * Until the raw cover will be out, use the scan cover.


 * There is no need to upload the cover, wait for the raw. (usually a few days at maximum) Examples:


 * 23:07, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 23:34, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Klobis 00:01, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) 海賊-姫 00:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 00:52, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 16:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * 16:23, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) -- 18:05, July 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Neutral.

If you have other suggestion about other examples or other options write them down in the discussion.

Discussion
I can clean the bad quality images, if necessary, so tell me which files need to be cleaned.

About the raw/scan, I don't see the point of using the scans (except for the special cases), since the pictures are meant to show the art or a subject, if you want read the text you go to a online manga reader, also in the caption or in the test is described what happens in the picture. Remember that this is an encyclopedia. But this is only about the fan text, not the picture itself, which is ok.

If anything, should we use the anime pictures at all times when it becomes available? An example: over, so that we won't have to fight over using RAW or scanlation if anime can solve the dilemma? 03:04, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

There is always a point to using scans even the ones that are blanked out. There is no point in using RAWs. Did any of you ever read the other discussion fully? Also I didn't vote for the last poll because "wait the raw" makes no sense. SeaTerror 08:51, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

For the anime vs manga, I think it's another topic, when there are anime version available, usually we use them. For the last poll what makes no sense? Then vote for the second option... I don't understand, is there something wrong with the poll? And I don't get what's the main point of using the scan blanked out, I mean, it's because you find the text "distracting"? Because between two images with the same quality, since you will not understand them anyway, it's better have the text that don't have it, also they can be use as evidence for romanization and such (without reupload them). I'm talking about this kind of cases:

The scan: The raw: Why you prefer the blanked out one? Ah... is it ok the "two week" time for the poll?

I meant it doesn't make sense grammatically. Eliminated text completely is the best way to go except for when that isn't possible such as writing in the background. SeaTerror 17:00, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

I can't follow you... I asked what makes no sense for the cover poll... and what does it mean "it doesn't make sense grammatically"? Can you explain it better, also the part about eliminating the text? Sorry for being dumb...


 * Why this forum is ignored?...
 * 3 more days:)

I just noticed, but the poll already ended at 00:00... I though there would have been more users voting...

Final results:
No more arguments, right? 19:31, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Remove text from scanlated groups.
 * Update images with a good raw scan.
 * Wait for a good raw cover before uploading.

So if text is being removed and people want raw scans for everything then there is no point in even having scanlations at all. I guess everybody who hates scanlations wins. SeaTerror 23:50, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't necessarily be the case, because the poll says you can upload the image with a good raw, so the principle of "the better quality" it's still valid. If you think about it, there isn't always a better raw, especially for the two-pages images. I think nobody "hates" scanlation, further more there are exceptions.

Then Klobis will upload one regardless of the quality. Also yes this is about hatred of scanlations. Just read Yatanogarasu's comments in both debate threads. SeaTerror 17:49, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Well then you hate the raws more for what I see... about the quality, please anyone tell me which images are "to be cleaned" and I'll try to improve the quality since usually you can achieve high quality with relative easy effort. If the file has a really worse quality then the scan, revert it, but try to void edit wars so talk it out in the file page if someone revert it again. I know, the file talk pages are usually ignored (but now there is the template last talks in the wiki activity), sorry I don't know what say more than this.

Wrong. I don't hate the RAWs they are not needed. I don't see how you can possibly think I hate RAWs more than anybody hating scanlations on this site. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:RAW_Japanese_Manga_Images Read Memnarc's comments. SeaTerror 18:10, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Ok I see, you think like Jinbe. Sorry if I said that, but usually you are pretty "resolute" on your opinions... : )

You still haven't acknowledged the fact that they wanted to change it is because of hatred against scanlations. Soon enough we'll have somebody wanting to change scanlation/fansub titles to official ones. SeaTerror 18:46, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

And why the hell shouldn't we? You wanna use unofficial titles just because they sound better? 08:29, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

There goes your hatred for anything unofficial again. Using unofficial titles is better because they generally are translated better. Let's change everything to official name. Let's change Bon Kurei to Bon Clay all over the wikia. SeaTerror 18:38, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ah come on... stop arguing we can say we are using fan translation since the unofficial romanization are chosen by us, but the topic was the scanlation images, not even the fan script (sorry ST, it seems there wasn't a consensus on using not-blanked scans without a reason), so the main topic was blank speech bubbles over raw text. I don't even really know where the titles come from... the episode ones aren't translated by us? The chapter ones come from the viz I think, on the Italian Wikipedia usually the titles are given like Japanese/romanization/direct translation/official Italian title, we can go like that if you like.

The chapter titles come from scanlations unless somebody changed them. SeaTerror 19:06, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

I was without the net for a mnth and a half due to moving. I will say it really doesn't matter what we use, so long as it serves the purpose of acting as a demostration of the text its supporting thats fine. We keep falling into the trap of pretty an image up because its pretty and while *some* images are indeed that, I pointed out a while ago theres no rule that says we had to use one image over the over. But please guys, uopdate Image Guidelines if you haven't already to contain this text, its annoying if we vote on images and don't update it. User Angel Emfrbl 15:44, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Honestly the problem is the only reason they want to use RAWs over scanlations is because of hatred against scanlations/fansubs. This wikia was built on those and to try to remove every aspect from it is incredibly asinine. As I said before, I'm sure they will go after chapter/episode titles now. SeaTerror 20:24, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I hear you Sea. RAWs, toggling, chapters... These topics keep coming up to be discussed. Yet whenever I want to raise concern over simple things that cause conflicts I get ignored.  Even though I'm just trying to tie up loose ends. We keep seeing the SAME arguments and topics coming up while everyone has a dig until the guy who whines the most gets his way.  Though thats not my concern, at the end of the day so long as regulaur editors know the rules and theres an argreement in place I'm fine.  But if no one upates the rules, when I finally get onto this wikia I seem to be the one left trying to figure out whats happened in my absence and what needs updating, I do get annoyed thats all I seem to do.


 * Heck, besides being out of date with the storyline I'm still seeing the same problems with the wikia I saw 3 years ago... *sips on a cup of tea*, lol, but we seem to just like lingering on those issues. I don't know...  Could be worst... I can think of a worst thing I've witnessed to do with this wikia, a few christmas' back involving Greg.  No you don't need to know the details, its in the past and for me, knowing he was wrong and the wikia was right after all the hassle he gave us has always been the icing on the cake as it were, lol. It put me off editing the wikia, most of all visiting AP forums.


 * Chapter titles, though, in due respects is harder to deal with. We use Chapter 1, Episode 1 for a reason.  I'm actually quite sick of it being brought up all the time so if anyone brings them up in the next month, hells bells, they'd better have a good book ready because theres a lecture involved in that one and a long rant from me on how I'm fed up with that single most insignificant subject is being raised for the umteenths millionth time!  I mean that in an amusing way though Sea. XD One-Winged Hawk 21:48, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I never saw the reason for it. If the wikia uses fansub/scanlations on other pages like Chapters and Volumes then I don't see why the actual chapter pages shouldn't be like that either. I'm just waiting for that chapter/fansub title thing to pop up because it always has and always will. Usually its newer members but one day I suspect an older member will try to do it. SeaTerror 18:48, August 25, 2011 (UTC)