Template talk:Nine Red Scabbards Gallery

other retianers
the kozuki family had many retainers unless u want to put all them under allies stop placeing izo thereTo love this (talk) 16:52, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

There is a differance between the family's retainers and Oden's specificly, and even if Oden had several other retainers, Izo is Kiku's brother and was "recruited" before most of them to serve under Oden, so he is a special case either way. Rhavkin (talk) 17:30, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

no he is not he retainer just like any one else and no there isnt a special differnce a family retiner and personal one what are u even talking about all of the retainers are equally loyal to every member of the family18:36, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

and until this discussion is done stop changeing the page and leave as originally wasTo love this (talk) 18:36, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

See Shutenmaru comment in chapter 925. Rhavkin (talk) 19:10, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

😑😑😑 thats your proof really so because one person who wqs angry and later on changed there mind said that and even though the other six has shown to be loyal to entire family you are saying that one person word is more imporant on how we see all retianers To love this (talk) 19:31, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

I at least have a proof, all you have is an assumptions:


 * You assume Inuarashi and Nekomamushi reacted differently when they first met Raizo after those 20 years.
 * You assume Oden had other retainers other then Izo.
 * You assume Sukiyaki's retainers had a good relationship with the Scabbards.

Rhavkin (talk) 19:54, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

you have no proof you have ambigous answers and use the freaking word of one person for entire group!!! get some real proof or stopTo love this (talk) 20:37, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
 * "You assume Inuarashi and Nekomamushi reacted differently when they first met Raizo after those 20 years" i dont even know how u came up with this because never have i said anything like this and there hasnt been a single hint in any chapter inu or neko had a problem with raizo and dont u dare say well oda hinted to it because he never has
 * "You assume Oden had other retainers other then Izo." dude they had more then 9 retainers Jibuemon was one them the Nine Red Scabbards are the most famous ones thats all do understand that
 * You assume Sukiyaki's retainers had a good relationship with the Scabbards.😑😑😑 again sukiyakis retainers lirtellay would be oden retainers as well the same way the nine scabborads work for hyori and momo and yes they have because some of the fighters in the rebel army were lirteally reveled to be retainers who worked for Kozuki Sukiyaki

and that is not the freaking orginal verison the orginal version had no ally sectionTo love this (talk) 20:40, November 24, 2019 (UTC)


 * 1) You claim it is the reaction of just one of the retainers? prove it.
 * 2) You claim Jibuemons kept his 'retainer-ship'? prove it.
 * 3) You claim Sukiyaki's retainers did not share his views on Oden's actions at the time of Oden joining the WP? prove it.

Rhavkin (talk) 20:47, November 24, 2019 (UTC)


 * 1) has any other retainer said what Ashura Doji said no they havent they heen loyal to entire family no matter what
 * 2) did Jibuemon say he was done with the family no he didnt did he bow and swear to fight with them as soon as they appeared 20 years later yes he did
 * 3) It was another one of Kozuki Sukiyaki who bragged and applaued odens actions during his period there hasnt been a single retainer who had a problem with oden actions not single one has said a bad thing ablut his actions

now here your chance show me some proof disproveing any of this nd u better not come back with ambigous answers or trying to chamge subject againTo love this (talk) 20:57, November 24, 2019 (UTC)


 * 1) The rest of the retainers knew about Toki sending the group to the future.
 * 2) Not being "done with the family" does not mean he stayed a retainer of other family members.
 * 3) PROVE IT

Rhavkin (talk) 21:22, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) SO DID ASHURA DOJI
 * 2) are you trolling me right now?
 * 3) THE PROVE IS LIRTEALLY THE FACT NO O E HAS TALKED CRAP ABOUT HIM name a chapter showing retainer saying they no longer loyal to them 21:34, November 24, 2019 (UTC)


 * 1) Ashura never said he knew about Toki's actions.
 * 2) Yasuie and Hyogoro for example had titles and respect for the Kozuki Family, and in the present didn't have titles and were still loyal. All we know about Jibuemon is that he was a retainer, not that he is still one.
 * 3) Fukurokuju and Orochi are example of characters that were loyal to the Kozuki and now aren't.

Stop calling for proof based on other retainers since we do not know any other retainers. Rhavkin (talk) 21:51, November 24, 2019 (UTC)

we do know other retainers u just do not wamt use any of them because half of them are confirmed are loyal to family still and other ones we do not know are retainers or just allies with tbe family22:42, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) what are u talkimg about ashura doji did know about toki prophecy he lirteally brought it up in chapter 950
 * 2) i am say this once and i am going repeat my selfHyogoro and Shimotsuki Yasuie were not retainers they were freaking yakuza boss and a daimyo those are two differnt titles from a retainer
 * 3) Fukurokuju and Orochi were never retainers one was a serveant the other was ally.


 * 1) He was talking about the prophecy. He wasn't in the castle when it happened.
 * 2) + 3. Do you have proof that retainers can't shift loyalties or abandon them? We know nothing about the title of retainer in the world off One Piece and again, you assume that since Jibuemon stayed loyal to the family, all of them did, and that is without know who and if there were other retainers.

This discussion had gone to far. other then the Scabbards, Izo, and Jibuemon there are no other retainers we know about,and Izo was close with the Scabbards: trained with them, lived with them, fought alongside them... He is an ally without a doubt. That is way he should be on the template at least as an ally.

Can you provide proof of there being other retainers and argue their and Jibuemon's case to add them to the gallery? Rhavkin (talk) 04:27, November 25, 2019 (UTC)

this discussion is done izo is not an ally he is a fellow retainer i am rverting back to ogrinal do not touch againTo love this (talk) 04:42, November 25, 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) stop just stop trying wored to make u sound right you were nkt aahura doji knew the plan just lile every one else except it
 * 2) there no such freaking thing as proof aome can noy switch aides what is wronng with u that lirteally something that never be proofen any one can lirteally switch sides luffy could sale out the entire straw hat crew and join black beard if he wanted to
 * 3) omg the word retainer means the same thing in one piece
 * 4) all of the retainers shown stayed loyal to the family
 * 5) there have been abunch of retainers shown they have not been named

Do you speak English? Rhavkin (talk) 04:50, November 25, 2019 (UTC)

First of all, I'm not sure how "fellow retainer" equals "not an ally". By definition of ally, a fellow retainer (on good terms at least) would be an ally.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 07:49, November 25, 2019 (UTC)

he is a retainer for same freaking family as them what sense those it make to put him under ally section but not other retainers of the familys as far as we know izo is not special retainer who needs to be marked down in ally section22:42, November 26, 2019 (UTC)

Izo must be added as a former retainer cause Kikunojo has taken his place. Mugy69 (talk) 10:57, November 29, 2019 (UTC)

Stop making stuff up. Where does it say one family member retainers are automatically the entire family's? All the retainers we've seen with multiple leaders, are those whose former leader was gone, and they choose to keep following the family. Ashura Doji said it himself, and assuming Izo is like any of Sukiyaki's retainers is speculation. Izo was a comrade and follower of Oden and of Oden alone, and he was seen working with the Scabbards for years. While he is yet to be confirmed to be a member or not, you can't deny that he was the group ally, while other retainers of other family members (thou only one is introduced) have shown any affiliation of the group what so ever. Rhavkin (talk) 19:48, December 2, 2019 (UTC)