File talk:Donquixote Family Hierarchy.png

Allowing Scanlation Version
I believe this image would be more useful for us if we allowed it to be a scanlation instead of raw Japanese. To just go off the pictures of characters doesn't really get the complete idea across in English. I uploaded a partially blanked scanlation based of the Powermanga/CCC translation which matches our use of name spellings, and I still blanked the text boxes, since we do not need any of the dialogue for this image. I just want to make sure people agree that we should allow it to be a scanlation before I make the change. 17:02, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

It's tricky - I do like this image a lot, but the only way to do it would be to manually put the members pictures in the boxes, and that's not feasible. Still up for allowing it as a picture, though.

17:05, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

You only have to scroll slightly up to see the gallery, which has all the relevant names and translations. It's different to the case of a map where it's too awkward to describe what's going on in the text. I don't think the scanlation is necessary here. 03:27, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Zodiaque. 03:37, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. This is an english speaking website and we should remember that. Not all of us here speak japanese, so we should keep the scanslated titles of who is who. It is more helpful to others visiting. Genocyber (talk) 04:46, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

The caption explains what the image is just fine. It's there to show the hierarchy, and nothing more. Scroll up if you want the english names.

(Also, this isn't just an "english speaking website". It's also a wiki dedicated to a manga that isn't originally in english.) 04:54, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

It is perfectly fine. This is why Scanlation Images Allowed category exists. SeaTerror (talk) 07:43, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I think this pic qualifies for an exception. Besides it's not like we are posting actual translated  text, it's just names and positions.

No need for english here. We only allow scanlations if information cannot be provided in any other way (like maps). 11:51, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

First off, the caption does not clearly explain what's going on in the image. "The Donquixote Family's hierarchy" merely shows there is a hierarchy, and does not explain any of what the hierarchy is made of, leaving the reader to speculate based on the locations of the portraits. (And trying to do that is more difficult because Vergo and Monet are not in the same panel as everyone else) Secondly, the image doesn't have the names of the positions/divisions making it harder to easily know these things. Yes all of that information is contained in the corresponding paragraph, but it makes it much harder to do so and if we're going to have an image there, it should be there to enhance the content of the paragraph making the topic easier to understand, instead of forcing the reader to go back to the paragraph. And using an image in this fashion is not unprecedented there are  of images whose English text could be explained in a paragraph but instead use an English translation for easier reading. 15:39, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

The image in english simply isn't needed, in my opinion. Nothing you say is really going to change that. All the rank information and all that is in the gallery above, so I'd go as far to say that we don't even need the image, and instead, we should organize the portrait gallery in a fashion that replicates the manga image.

As for those images, we should probably revisit them in order to fix that, since that shouldn't be what scanlation images are used for. 15:45, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Nope. Those images are fine too. There's nothing wrong with them. There is definitely nothing wrong with this image. SeaTerror (talk) 17:23, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Its better to just have it in english. It makes it easier to understand than the caption. Genocyber (talk) 18:26, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

As said above, reorganizing the template will have the same effect. We don't need the image. 18:28, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Your reasons arent good enough.Genocyber (talk) 22:32, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Please realize that people have different opinions from your own. Insulting another user's opinion is not the way to get your point across. 22:36, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Now your jumping to conclusions. Stop accusing. Genocyber (talk) 01:41, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

No conclusions are being jumped to, you're just disregarding the opinions of others and saying that their opinions don't matter over yours. 01:56, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Use scanlation pic. 13:28, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

I think a poll should be made to decide this. Genocyber (talk) 00:50, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

Scanlation pic is better. 07:09, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand why we should use the scanlation, you can see all the members and their ranks in the gallery. 18:51, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Scanlation_Images_Allowed That's why. SeaTerror (talk) 20:01, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

That's only when a scanlation image is a must, and it really isn't here. 21:24, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just because you say so doesn't ean we all agree.Genocyber (talk) 23:15, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Before this moves on to a poll, is there anyone who thinks we should use a fully scanlated image, and not the partially blanked version I uploaded? 18:49, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

If you're allowing a scanlated image to show the text then going all the way would be better. However, as long as the names stay then it doesn't really matter. SeaTerror (talk)

The other option would be uploading them as two separate images and implementing a switch, although having a third option on the poll isn't really desirable (and it's probably best not to rely on the switch too much if we can help it, otherwise it'll be brought up in anime/manga wars). If we can reach a compromise, great, otherwise the poll's fine as it is. Like I've said - there's absolutely no difference between the gallery template and the image (with the exception of the squad functions, which can be added to the gallery), so having both in English is redundant. Having the image in Japanese conveys more information and lessens the need for Nihongo templates in the surrounding paragraphs. 10:07, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Alright, here's a test poll. It's two parts, with the second regarding full vs. partial translation. 1 week poll, starting on tuesday if there's no problems with it. 19:08, January 4, 2014 (UTC)

No problems, I'm opening it. 04:08, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Poll
{{Poll
 * include cat=1
 * locked=0
 * closed=1
 * about=scanlating this image
 * concept=Should this image be translated to English?
 * start= January 8, 2014 @ 04:09UTC
 * end= January 15, 2014 @ 04:00UTC
 * voting=

Yes. We should allow the use of a Scanlated image in this situation.

 * 04:08, January 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 02:45, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) Genocyber (talk) 05:55, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 16:49, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 17:21, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) MasterDeva (talk) 12:13, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * 18:01, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

No. We should not allow the use of a Scanlated image in this situation.
}} {{Poll If Yes wins above; should we use a version where only the names of the Family members are translated and leave the text boxes blank?
 * 00:31, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1)  01:37, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 01:41, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Klobis (talk) 05:05, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 07:29, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 15:54, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 22:50, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * include cat=1
 * locked=0
 * closed=1
 * about=scanlating this image
 * concept=Should this image be translated to English?
 * start= January 15, 2014 @ 04:00UTC
 * end= January 18, 2014 @ 04:00UTC
 * voting=

Yes

 * 00:31, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1)  01:37, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 01:41, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Klobis (talk) 05:05, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 07:29, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 15:54, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 16:43, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

No
}}
 * 04:08, January 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror (talk) 02:45, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 17:21, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) MasterDeva (talk) 12:13, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * 18:01, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Raw Version Found
I found a raw version of this file. However, this is not as good as the scanlation one.

http://www.mangainn.com/mangaraw/chapter/1293_one-piece_chapter_732/page_14 and http://www.mangainn.com/mangaraw/chapter/1293_one-piece_chapter_732/page_15

When shall we use it? I have a copy of these files.  Gourd Roger   Purple Talk  ♡ 07:38, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

And oh, it's still in JPG. I need to take a screen of this so this becomes PNG.