Talk:Four Emperors

Luffy
So, ignoring how the name doesn't actually work with five people, should Luffy even be included. Calling him the "Fifth emperor of the sea!" was just Morgan's opinion, the other Emperors themselves mostly seemed dismissive of the idea.--Rrmcklin (talk) 04:37, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Well, everything's been updated already, so we should probably just wait and see what the next few chapters hold before making any counter edits. I guess the criteria for being an Emperor is just up to the general opinion around the world, so we should get our final answer when Luffy's brought up during the Reverie. I will say this too; Neptune intention to actually declare FI Luffy's territory supports the idea that it's legit Mhj0808 (talk) 05:41, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Well we don't call the Shichibukai the Gobukai even though there's only 5 of them right now. If it's in a narration box, it's pretty legit. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:42, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

I mean, the Shichibukai is an official position, just because they both have numbers doesn't mean they're the same thing.--Rrmcklin (talk) 05:53, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure if he should really be included. Might be better to wait a few chapters. The narration boxes just seemed to narrate the contents of the newspaper, which is why they said things like Luffy being some super intelligent mastermind. The Reverie may give us a clearer as answer as to what the consensus regarding Luffy's status is. 06:10, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Actually, is the term "Yonko" even applied to Luffy? The chapter title seems to be (5番目の皇帝 5-Banme no Kōtei). Kōtei is "emperor", but in the case of Yonko even the individual members are called Yonkō. So even assuming Luffy is considered "the fifth emperor", this may not affect the Yonko grouping. We need raws for the chapter statement though. 09:30, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

It's just a nickname of the newspaper, "The Fith Emperor". They're are currently the Yonko (Four Emperors), not the Goko (Five Emperors). Unless they think that Big Mom has been dethroned and consider that Luffy has taken her place... Cdavymatias (talk) 09:45, April 28, 2018 (UTC)


 * We on russian wiki also believe that the world government has not yet said anything about this, it can not be attributed to Yonko.Dr.Bryan (talk) 10:30, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Are you sure? I mean, the World Government has deemed him to be very dangerous that they would raise his bounty to 1.5 billion berries. Isn’t that somewhere in the zone of a Yonko 1995Kaido (talk) 10:20, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

"The Fifth Emperor" is a nickname, like when someone says that something is "the Eighth Wonder of the World". --Cdavymatias (talk) 12:09, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Regardless, it should still be mentioned, and the confirmed yonko reading the news needs to be add in the history section. How long is this page gonna be protected now that chapter 903 is out? Rhavkin (talk) 12:54, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Well, from my perspective, I think it's silly to assume that the name alone bars Luffy from entry into the Yonko ranks. Just because Yonko means Four Emperors doesn't mean there can only be four at any given time. After all, during the first year of the timeskip, they were probably known as the Three Emperors, because Blackbeard hadn't ascended yet.

The media determines Yonko status. That has always been the case, so while Luffy obviously isn't on the same level as the other Yonko, he is still considered one in the eyes of the world, and that should be enough to place him on the page, regardless of the other falsities. Or, at the very least, mention that he got the title in the trivia section or something, because it feels wierd to reset the page after last chapter. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 13:19, April 28, 2018 (UTC))

Wait, a minute. Why was my contribution here deleted? (Yeomanaxel (talk) 14:40, April 28, 2018 (UTC))

Did you delete them because they were no longer needed after you added the Luffy stuff I mentioned? (Yeomanaxel (talk) 14:47, April 28, 2018 (UTC))

Your contribution was not deleted, you deleted other people's contributions when you posted it. I reverted the page and then added back your contribution, but then you wrote over your own post with a post asking why it was deleted. So I'm not really sure what's happening on your end. 15:00, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Really? I didn't even notice. Sorry everyone. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 15:10, April 28, 2018 (UTC))

"An Emperor? It's still too soon for you, Straw Hat!" Says Teach. --Cdavymatias (talk) 15:42, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Eh, part of me thinks his recognition in this chapter is legit. But I'll be fine with just mentioning him as the considered fifth member for now. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:26, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Except it’s not official in the comic yet Meshack (talk) 16:27, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

But the newspapers think so, as well as everyone who's read the newspapers (which is pretty much every literate person in the OP world). --SpikeDragonLord (talk) 16:34, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should wait for the next chapters of the story arc, and see what the characters say about it. --Cdavymatias (talk) 17:51, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

He isn't one yet and even if he was the article would have to be renamed. You don't just add a new member of a group that has numbers in the name and keep the same title with nobody being replaced. SeaTerror (talk) 18:51, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, it's best to just mention the declaration and leave it at that. 19:01, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

Like everyone else, I'll rather wait for more information.

Joekido (talk) 19:25, April 28, 2018 (UTC)

I say wait. It's something drummed up by the papers and not the Marines or pirate community at large. Hold off. 04:46, April 29, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I also think we should wait for stronger confirmation. And as others have mentioned, there's also the problem of how to include the "Fifth Emperor" as a member of the Yonko when the Yonko literally refers to only four members. It would just be weird. 07:38, April 29, 2018 (UTC)

Clear majority supports for waiting for further information. I already reverted some edits earlier, but if there's still instances of Luffy or Straw Hats being referred to as Yonko, those should be removed. 07:57, April 29, 2018 (UTC)

Though the discussion seems mostly over, I'd like to point out that Morgans didn't call Luffy "The fifth Yonko" he called him "The Fifth Emperor of the sea". You can look at the original Japanese to see that. So the mention in the article of Luffy the way he is, is inaccurate. --Rrmcklin (talk) 05:32, May 15, 2018 (UTC)

I think you should have made a new section instead of just posting under an existing, unrelated one. But either way, trivia is supposed to be interesting, and that doesn't sound interesting. It's just a fact.--Rrmcklin (talk) 08:10, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

I would have but didnt think need to since just quick question and  isnt all triva informartion on yonko page just facts?To love this (talk) 08:17, May 23, 2018 (UTC) To love this (talk) 08:21, May 23, 2018 (UTC)

yonko commander names
Would be alright  to  add to triva section each yonko  has  a differnt name for top commanders  big mama calls hers 4 sweet Commdanders Kaido  call  his the three disasters  Black Beard  Call his the ten titanic Captains and whitbeard calls his 16 commanders and each name follows a  the theme of the crew To love this (talk) 09:13, May 23, 2018 (UTC)?To love this (talk) 08:08, May 23, 2018 (UTC)To love this (talk) 08:19, May 23, 2018 (UTC)To love this (talk) 04:03, May 24, 2018 (UTC)

Protected
Why is this page still protected? Given the new information about Shanks becoming a yonko before chapter 1, the debut needs to be changed (back), also, a lot of the references a re messed up. I have no problem fixing the references, but could someone remove the protection please? Rhavkin (talk) 11:53, September 7, 2018 (UTC)

Edit request
Requesting a wording fix in the following paragraph, to remove redundant wording.

Current version: "However, because of their immense power, it is necessary for factions aiming to oppose them to first form an alliance with other factions in order to bring the Yonko down. However, even with pirate crews forming multiple alliances, the chances of defeating a Yonko are still extremely low. When the Straw Hat Pirates and the Heart Pirates formed an alliance to defeat Kaido, Law informed Luffy that he believed their chance of success was still only 30%."

Revised version: "Because of their immense power, it is necessary for factions aiming to oppose them to first form an alliance with other factions in order to bring the Yonko down. However, even with pirate crews forming multiple alliances, the chances of defeating a Yonko are still extremely low. When the Straw Hat Pirates and the Heart Pirates formed an alliance to defeat Kaido, Law informed Luffy that he believed their chance of success was still only 30%."

Thank you in advance for this fix.

Until next time... Anon e Mouse Jr.Anon e Mouse Jr. (talk) 13:46, September 11, 2018 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the however, since it segues off a sentence talking about how the Yonko can be threatened. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 14:11, September 11, 2018 (UTC)

Grammatically, the use of the same word starting two sentences in a row just bugs me.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.Anon e Mouse Jr. (talk) 16:07, September 11, 2018 (UTC)

Fleets
Under the Fleet section I don't think we need to list every important member (including their Devil Fruits and bounties) of a Yonko's respective crew. I think a short description and the title used to refer to their top members (as well as a link to that section in their crews' page) will suffice. This page should be about the individual Yonko themselves otherwise what would be the point of their individual crew pages. Vincent Dawn (talk) 03:02, April 26, 2019 (UTC)

I thought that was what that section was about at first. The old edit was useless information. We just need a general fleet description and a line about many members having Devil Fruit powers. SeaTerror (talk) 09:44, April 26, 2019 (UTC)

Debut
Chapter 957 says Shanks became known as a Yonko six years ago, and since manga > Databook, The debut needs to change again. Rhavkin (talk) 06:05, September 27, 2019 (UTC)

Four Emperors
I know this is an old discussed topic but, is there a reason why this article is not called "Four Emperors"? If Gorosei was moved to Five Elders, why this wasn't? Cracker-Kun (talk) 22:27, April 25, 2020 (UTC)

That's a good point. I agree with Cracker-Kun. (GoldenOath20 (talk) 22:36, April 25, 2020 (UTC))

For context, Gorosei was moved to Five Elders because Oda spelled it that way in Chapter 907. I personally am neutral between Yonko and Four Emperors. If Four Emperors is ultimately deemed preferable, I think Shichibukai should be translated as well. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:08, April 25, 2020 (UTC)

Okay, now were talking. We're talking about renaming Yonko to Four Emperors and changing Shichibukai Seven Warlords of the Sea. I for one am in favor of both.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 23:57, April 25, 2020 (UTC))

I agree, we translated nakama even though is more used than "friend" or "crewmate". So i think it would be good to translate both terms. But this decision must be voted in my opinion. Cracker-Kun (talk) 01:13, April 26, 2020 (UTC)

So we should move Nekomamushi to Cat Viper then because of "translations"? Just because one page was moved doesn't mean the others should be. Unless Oda actually ever spells them that way. SeaTerror (talk) 06:11, April 27, 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, there was an attempt to translate "Shichibukai" to "Seven Warlords of the Sea" in the databooks. It was just translated weirdly as "Seven Worlds" instead of "Warlords". If it had been spelled correctly I feel like the change probably would've been made on the wiki a long time ago. Based on that and Five Elders being translated, it seems likely to me that Oda would probably translate it as "Four Emperors" as well. Might be best to translate them. DewClamChum (talk) 06:26, April 27, 2020 (UTC)

That was because we weren't sure if it also even came from Oda himself. The misspelling wasn't the only reason we didn't change it. SeaTerror (talk) 06:32, April 27, 2020 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and say: let's do it. I see little reason to keep it as Yonko aside from a stubborn clinging to using untranslated Japanese while having steadily translated more and more titles and groups over the years. We already refer to Luffy as "The Fifth Emperor" on his page so saying Four Emperors instead of Yonko would give that more consistency. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:12, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, let's do it.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 01:24, April 29, 2020 (UTC))

We said not to add that title to Luffy's page before on the talk page discussion about it. So if somebody added it then they broke the rules. Especially considering that using that term would be flat out wrong for Luffy anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 06:53, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

I genuinely fail to see how that would be wrong/a rule violation. Not to mention that his intro section does use the term "Fifth Emperor of the Sea". Additionally, Kaido King is a wiki Admin, so you're kinda out-ranked here.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 10:57, April 29, 2020 (UTC))

Because Luffy was never called Yonko. What lot of people don't seem to realise is that Yonko is used for both referring four people and as title of single person. By keeping Yonko, we'll have both meanings. --JouXIII (talk) 13:18, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

People usually use that term bad, saying for example that Kaido is a Yonko, instead of saying that Kaido is one of the Yonko. With the term translated it would be much easier for people to use the term accurately. Cracker-Kun (talk) 13:40, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

What Jou said. It was a different term used in the manga. In fact I'll remove it now since It wasn't supposed to be added in the first place due to the talk page decision. Also it wouldn't be easier since people would still be using the term wrong for Luffy. SeaTerror (talk) 18:04, April 29, 2020 (UTC)

I am wholely in favor of translating these. 00:28, May 1, 2020 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, it appears that the majority is in favor of changing the name. So I say lets do it. Who's with me? (GoldenOath20 (talk) 21:52, May 2, 2020 (UTC))

The Straw Hat Pirates aren't called "Mugiwara no Ichimi", so Yonko and Shichibukai should be translated unless Oda provides his own translation/romanization. Cdwp22 (talk) 22:28, May 2, 2020 (UTC)

I see a clear majority in translating the term, so is there going to be a change in the end? Cracker-Kun (talk) 18:19, May 13, 2020 (UTC)

If there's a divided opinion, even if there is a majority, shouldn't we have a vote on it? Dot ( Talk ) 18:27, May 13, 2020 (UTC)

I say change it. Four Emperors forever.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 20:27, May 13, 2020 (UTC))

Luffy is clearly the best 5th Four Emperor SeaTerror (talk) 18:03, May 14, 2020 (UTC)

ST, very good. You depicted the need to change it to English so that people use the term correctly very well. What Luffy was referred to as in the original is translated to "The Fifth Emperor", not "The Fifth Yonko". Keeping half our titles in English and the other half in Japanese is just dumb. I say we change all titles we use Japanese for to English unless Oda's romanization says otherwise. Dot ( Talk ) 12:30, June 25, 2020 (UTC)

Actually it was neither since the term used in the manga itself was not "yonkou or "gokou" It was a completely different term. In fact it would lead to more confusion because of people assuming he is a member when he was never stated to be one. Jou said the reason not to move it anyway but everybody didn't read it since they put on their blindfolds after he posted. SeaTerror (talk) 00:00, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

The thing is that saying: "Kaido is a Yonko" is wrong, because u are actually saying that "Kaido is a Four Emperors, and on this wiki this happens with both the Shichibukai and Yonko terms, by changing it that would never happen. Cracker-Kun (talk) 00:12, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

That is literally wrong. Nobody is saying that at all. Especially since Yonkou is both singular and plural. SeaTerror (talk) 06:32, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

For example the Crocodile article said (before I changed it) that "he was introduced as a Shichibukai", instead of saying that "he was introduced as one of the Shichibukai". This type of mistakes are actually common overall in the fandom discussions. Cracker-Kun (talk) 12:11, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

It is very common ST, maybe not on our articles, but among our users, and the fan base in general. Dot ( Talk ) 16:12, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

So you changed a non mistake to another non mistake? Both words are singular and plural. Also that isn't true. Most people use the Japanese terms. If you meant people mistaking Luffy as a Yonkou then that is common only because people don't know what the actual term used was. SeaTerror (talk) 18:35, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

We arent talking about luffy here. We're talking about Yonko. ( Dot  Talk  ) 15:29, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

The terminology argument isn't exactly accurate as in Japanese the term "Yonko" has been used plainly to refer to just one of the members. For example, Chapter 829 is titled "Kaizoku 'Yonkō' Shārotto Rinrin" and Chapter 923 is titled "Yonkō Kaidō Bāsasu Rufi". In both instances, a clear English translation would translate "Yonko" as "Emperor" rather than Four Emperors. So the discrepancy is worth noting.

Right now it seems that the majority is in favor of renaming the page. However, since there is still active debate over it, and since it revolves around a term we have been using for years, I think it would be good to settle things with a poll. Thoughts? Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:28, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

I'm fine with a poll. 06:03, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Cracker-Kun (talk) 10:19, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the change. 16:43, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Man, discussions with ST are always funny to read. :D Anyways, I just want to say, Luffy was called 5番目の「海の皇帝」, which translated to "Fifth 'Emperor of the Sea'". So coming from a professional POV, I would consider the term 四皇 to be deprecated, since the term 海の皇帝 exists, which describes all five emperors. As such, I'd suggest moving this page to "Emperor of the Sea" (or "Sea Emperor") and make the 四皇 a part of this page. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:56, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Morgans isn't the World Government. Also it was Gobanme no Koutei. SeaTerror (talk) 19:34, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

I know. And? We're a real life encyclopedia, we're not representing the World Government of One Piece. We document the series and in the series, the term I mentioned was used. Mind you, not the one you mentioned, as you can see here. 海の皇帝 is the umbrella term for all five emperors, four of which are the 四皇. It would make a lot more sense to have an officially named article about all five emperors and make the 四皇 a part of that article, instead of having an article about the 四皇 and making a fifth emperor part of that article. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:07, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Morgans doesn't decide that which is why we never added it in the first place. In fact Luffy doesn't even have any territory. SeaTerror (talk) 05:02, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

Fish-Man Island? Meshack (talk) 06:32, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

Nobody "decides" that. There's no application process or anything, 四皇 is simply the title of the four strongest on the seas. And Luffy became the fifth, so the article title should be changed accordingly. And you're wrong again, Luffy has FMI as his territory (and one could argue Dressrosa as well). • Seelentau 愛 議 11:12, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

Considering we're one of the biggest fandom wikis, we do need more cooperation, a format and in general, it shouldn't be too much of a mash up of each editor's own work, instead have uniformity. Same with the pages, if we translate Five Elders, we should do so with the warlords and emperors as well. Since we do provide the Japanese names as well, there's no compromise in information and we stay in the language a person has chosen to view the page in. If an English reader goes through the wiki, we naturally expect the English titles. We do tell them the official titles as well. ( Dot  Talk  ) 07:13, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah Luffy is definitely the 5th strongest in the world. Especially after he got blasted by Apoo. Also Dot Five Elders is only used because Oda spelled it that way. If we went with translating everything then we would have to translate all Devil Fruits which leads to issues such as half translations. SeaTerror (talk) 08:33, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

Man ST idk what's with you and Luffy as part of the Four Emperors, that's not even the topic but I'm talking about uniformity, all devil fruits use their official names because their meanings might be confusing on translation, but this is a title of a group, out of which very few we use Japanese names for, which is just odd. ( Dot  Talk  ) 08:49, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

That was for Seel. We're supposed to use them on all of them which is what the rule originally was. Pretty sure the guidebook even says so. Then it slowly changed over time for no reason. At the very least only the main groups were in Japanese. Like I said the only reason any of those were changed in the first place was because Oda romanized it like that. SeaTerror (talk) 18:33, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Poll is scheduled to open on Saturday. Please weigh in if you have an issue with it. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:34, July 2, 2020 (UTC)

Please add "Should be renamed to Emperors of the Sea". It should be the logical move, considering that's the full official umbrella title of all five emperors. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:14, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

Seelentau, Morgans doesn't decide who becomes an emperor, the government and the rest of the Emperors do. Cracker-Kun (talk) 13:02, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

I think that's more appropriate for a different discussion. This discussion is about whether or not to translate the current title Yonko, rather than changing it outright. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:54, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah. In this discussion, we should focus only on the translation aspect and I’m one for translating it to Four Emperors because it is unnecessary to keep it as Yonko since even Japanese media don’t use it and Oda never did. However, we probably should add the full title to the page Meshack (talk) 19:43, July 3, 2020 (UTC)

"Yonko since even Japanese media don’t use it" Of course they do. It has never been romanized anywhere therefore the default would be Yonkou. SeaTerror (talk) 08:35, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

@Cracker-kun Do they really? I always thought the Yonko were just the four strongest, not some group you could apply to join, get kicked out of etc. (like the 7 warlords). In any case, I find it really weird that you'd rather have a page about all five emperors called "Four Emperors", instead of the official name given for all five. Not sure how that makes sense, but I'm not really active here anyway, so maybe I'm just not accustomed enough, dunno. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:07, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

It is not that easy, if the WG doesn't think you are such a threat like BM, Shanks, WB, BB or Kaido then u can't be one of them, even Akainu and Teach said that "it is too soon". After Wano Arc maybe that can change. Cracker-Kun (talk) 18:04, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

Which brings me back to the question if the Yonko are an organization that you can become a part of, or if it's simply the title for the four (now five) strongest. Because as I mentioned in the original discussion, the manga uses a whole different umbrella term for all five emperors. Also, I just saw that the article doesn't cover Luffy. So should we create an article for the five emperors, four of which are the yonko and one is lone Luffy? • Seelentau 愛 議 00:43, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

I don't think we need to do that, the Fifth Emperor is just a title given to Luffy by Morgans' newspaper. No one else has been shown using the term. Nor has anyone called the current four emperors as a part of the "five emperors", even after Luffy being called that, we have seen them still being referred to as part of the four emperors, and not five. ( Dot  Talk  ) 15:33, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

Yup, because "Goko" isn't a term, so why would anyone call them that? The umbrella term for all five emperors is "Emperors of the Sea". "Yonko" is a sub-group, basically. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:14, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

You didn't get my point. My point was this page is for the Four Emperors of the Sea. Luffy is not a part of them, and his title has nothing to do with them or this group. The "Emperors of the Sea" is not a thing. Luffy isn't qualified enough to be with them, not recognised. ( Dot  Talk  ) 17:20, July 5, 2020 (UTC)