Talk:Charlotte Family

45 Sons
Well, by all means it looks like she killed her son so I was gonna add that it now consists of 84 children. But I wanted to see what you guys thought first. Muscat is DEAD for sure, yes?Mhj0808 (talk) 16:12, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I'd say keep it at 85 since we don't know if all of the 82 unseen siblings are still alive. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:59, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

If you have a family of 12 children and one dies at the age of 24 years or something. Would you say you had 11 children? Well to the funerals I go many also count children that died after a few days. And some even counted babies that died during the pregnancy. It's a strange way to go about things. Definitely keep it at 85.89.99.111.234 16:39, August 4, 2016 (UTC)Vartigo

Numbering Children
I think organizing the order of the sons and daughters would be helpful somewhere on this page like maybe in parentheses in the family box next to the characters name or a list in the members section so you dont have to open up the kids page to see the number and also be able to see the order of eldest to youngest. Just a suggestion since they make the effort to tell us the order of the daughter/sonBlazeKaizer (talk) 06:33, July 30, 2016 (UTC)BlazeKaizer

I agree, a numbered table or something of the sort that puts the children in order would be pretty convenient, especially since the current format doesn't display each child's number unless you go to that child's page. I also recommend separating the sons and the daughters.

I agree with the person above ^ Dinosel (talk) 15:37, August 4, 2016 (UTC)

Trivia
Apparently, SeaTerror has a problem with the trivia.
 * 1) The Food Theme- We are pretty much in agreement except for the phrasing.
 * 2) The Charlotte Cake- It doesn't make sense to include it in each character page, or just in Linlin's
 * 3) Lola- She is in the galley and the infobox. SeaTerror is the only one i see that doesn't think that the "Lola" mention in chapter 835 is the Lola from the Thriller Bark Arc.
 * 4) Non Food- Lola is not a food pun. As for Perospero, "licking" isn't related directly to "food". It like saying that "writing" is related to "sociality"; you'd lick a candy like you'd write a letter, but you could also lick an envelope and write a book.

Rhavkin (talk) 04:43, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

I dont have any problem with the trivia as long as they are not mentioned in every single member of the Charlotte Family seperately. The food theme trivia thing is getting out of hand. Dinosel (talk) 07:35, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

They're supposed to be mentioned on the character's article and we should not list every single family member here considering how many characters are in the family. Lola is being removed because there's no evidence that's her real name either. Perospero's is also food related. SeaTerror (talk) 08:21, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not talking about each family member pun, just the reference to the type of cake that is called "Charlotte". That trivia was in Linlin page but it is relevant to the entire family so instead of adding it to every member page I add it to the family's.

As for Lola, Daddy Big Head said that she is part of the family. At best you can argue that this is a different Lola from the Thriller Bark Arc but that is a different topic, and if that discussion will have a majority of "not the same Lola" then you can remove the link.

And as for Perospero, "Lick" isn't exclusively food related (e.g. envelope) but nonetheless, every other member of the family is name after a type of food while he is named after an action that could be related to food, still note worthy.

Rhavkin (talk) 10:02, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

"Lola is being removed because there's no evidence that's her real name either" SeaTerror (talk) 02:39, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, you seems to focus on Lola so I'll add the rest back to the trivia. The Lola discussion you should take to her take page, because as of now, she is consider in this wiki as a member of the family. Rhavkin (talk) 05:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

The fact that Lola's father called her Lola more than proves it's her real name. As for family photos, we have plenty of articles with huge galleries, like the Whitebeard Pirates. If it gets big, it gets big, and we'll roll with it. The food trivia should only be on individual pages, not the big one here. Keep charlotte cake just on here. Part of the reason we have these family pages is so that we have a place to put relevant overarching trivia that applies to all members instead of smearing it across every individual page. As for Perospero in specific, his name, while not directly related to food, is relevant to the giant lollipop cane he carries around as well as his position as candy minister and the fact that he has a tongue you can land a plane on. If you want to get technical, you can say that the children have a food and related onomatopoeia theme in either name or design. That's really all there is to it. Simple. Effective. Done. 07:19, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

So then that means we only need the Charlotte trivia here. Also that doesn't prove anything. It could be a nickname or a short version of a real name. In fact there's a cupcake store in Japan called Lola's. SeaTerror (talk) 08:38, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

The charlotte trivia was the only thing I did, I don't know why you thought I was going to add any family members except those who doesn't share the theme in a subnote. Rhavkin (talk) 08:47, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

No it isn't. [//onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Family?diff=1360785&oldid=1359942 http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Family?diff=1360785&oldid=1359942] SeaTerror (talk) 09:40, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

What are you trying to show? Rhavkin (talk) 09:51, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Stop trolling. SeaTerror (talk) 11:25, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Siriusly? I really can't understand what you're trying to point out. All I see is the first note about the theme, the first subnote about the charlotte cake and the second subnote about the exceptions. Rhavkin (talk) 11:35, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Someone changed the trivia and removed Perospero. One person doesn't make a theme and he is the only one who have (somewhat) food related name. Rhavkin (talk) 09:05, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

You claimed you didn't do the edits so to say "what are you trying to show" can be nothing but you trolling. We just need to put the trivia back to how I had it since it was the most correct. Even the bad grammar is there now. SeaTerror (talk) 03:53, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

When did I say I didn't do the edits? And as for the trivia you changes; first of all it's pretty arrogant to say "...how I had it since it was most correct...", if you truly believe that what you do is better despite the fact that both Dinosel and Dance Powderer agree to it so its just you that oppose then you I think you missed the whole point of the talk page concept. Secondly, yes, I have bad grammar but I'm working on it TVM, and there is a different between grammar edits and context edits (mainly that no one will argue about grammar edits).

And again, the Perospero thing, he is the only one in the family with a food related name wile the rest have a food type name. One member doesn't make theme. However, if there will be another food related named family member, it will only mean we'll add a subnote about "some members of the family have a food related name instead of a type of food name" so it still shouldn't be on the main note. Rhavkin (talk) 04:45, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

Keep the charlotte cake trivia and just say they all have food related names. Perospero and Lola don't need any specific mention. 00:09, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

It's been two weeks and nothing changed. Can we close this discussion? Barto mafia family (talk) 14:27, September 19, 2016 (UTC)

This appears to be settled, closing the discussion. 13:40, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't settled. There's still no clear majority. SeaTerror (talk) 18:39, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

The food thing is valid trivia. Also, Lola is actually the name of a Mexican drink made with cinnamon and vanilla 01:38, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

Seems to be a clear majority now and that also settles Lola. SeaTerror (talk) 02:11, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

Using a family tree?
Since we are going to be showing the known structure of the Charlotte Family (that is probably going to be very huge), can we simply use a family tree to show how that works? We can identify the exact relationship between a son/daughter and a parent (father) instead of chucking them all in a box and simply showing their portraits. 138.75.204.150 12:11, October 2, 2016 (UTC)

We only use images from the series, so simply making a family tree diagram isn't an option. If we get one in the manga then that'd be viable.

12:18, October 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * We have the information and facts given to us, then we should be able to form the relationship from the series. You don't expect a monarch of a country to personally design a family tree for his citizens to see/publish in the press, do you? The reporters who got the information made them, or something like that. 138.75.204.150 12:54, October 2, 2016 (UTC)

A family tree would be hard to understand with 43 hasbands. Maybe just using an * like with Aladine and Bege. Barto mafia family (talk) 12:33, October 2, 2016 (UTC)

Making a family tree of that size on our own is not very realistic. Too many unknown offspring and not to mention getting all of that to fit in a small image. 02:57, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Drake. As useful as it might be, it's not very practical. There's a good chance we won't even see the entire family, and then we'd just be left with a bunch of spaces unaccounted for. 16:31, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

New Kids, No Fam Name
I'm gonna nip this in the bud, chapter 861 gave us three new Charlotte kids: Oven, Daifukun, and Compote. The problem is they were not addressed as Charlotte Whatever. However, we know they're part of the family, since Vito called them sons and daughters. So I say we just add Charlotte to the title pages but keep it out of the name section of the infoboxes until further notice. 08:42, March 30, 2017 (UTC)

I would like to piggyback on what DP said and propose that we add Charlotte to Compote, Daifuku, Oven, Anana, Dolce, Dragee, and Anglais. We have been introduced to 20 Charlotte children, and everyone except those six plus Lola have gotten a last name without doubt. Lola is definitely an exception, considering that she got an intro-box and also left the family, leaving her name in reasonable enough doubt. But the other six are full-fledged members of the Charlotte Family. They just haven't had the privilege of getting an intro box, and their names have only been mentioned in casual conversation. People rarely refer to me by my full name in casual conversation so that makes sense. Smoothie and Katakuri were also first casually mentioned before they got their intro boxes, and sure enough, they had the name Charlotte. If this family was smaller I might be more inclined to caution, but time and time again we've seen the name Charlotte over and over, including for characters that were initially referred to by their first names before receiving an official introduction.

Also, in Chapter 842, Reiju stated that "in the Charlotte Family, last names remain unchanged even after marriage", putting forward some pretty strong evidence that the Charlotte children do indeed all have that last name.

We can keep just the first names in the infobox for now, like DP said, but I don't see why the titles can't have Charlotte in them. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 10:38, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Can someone at least fix the images on Compote, Daifuku, and Oven thanks. 68.5.136.238 11:04, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah DP's suggestion is fine. Not sure about Lola though since she's technically still a Charlotte regardless of whether or not she ran away. We did the same thing with Sanji (who also ran away) and ended naming the article "Vinsmoke Sanji" 14:56, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

If Oven, Daifuku, and Compote, have it, Dolce, Dragée, Anglais, and Anana should too Meshack (talk) 14:57, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Lola is more unclear since she was introduced with an Oda box without a surname. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 15:03, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

To be clear, I was only talking about Oven, Compote, and Daifuku. I'm hesitant to add it to the rugrats since there's a chance they might be her grandkids and have different names, like Capone Petz. 16:49, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

They're her children, since they referred to Pudding as "big sister" in Chapter 845 Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:47, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Kaido here. It's more than reasonable enough to name them all Charlottes. 19:00, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

Ugh, Klobis moved Oven and Daifuku back. And it begins. 20:11, March 31, 2017 (UTC)

So are we not going to add Charlotte to them all? Meshack (talk) 01:29, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

So Compote, Daifuku, and Oven aren't going to have Charlotte in them? Even tho they were listed as being part of the Charlotte Family alongside Perospero, Katakuri, and Smoothie. At least Dolce, Dragee, Anglais, and Anana I can understand because we don't know if their Big Mom's very younger kids or are her grandchildren, I'm guessing they are her very younger kids. I think they should have Charlotte in them but if not then alright it's your guys decision. Opera298 (talk) 04:18, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

The brats called Pudding their older sister. They ain't grandchildren. 13:47, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

I also think all direct children of Big Mom should have the Charlotte surname, even in the infobox. There is no evidence that would make us doubt the contrary.

Add it back. Klobis is going to fight us, but whatever. 16:21, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

DP, your thought is right. But it does not matter. We are readers, not the author. What readers think does not affect the wiki.

''Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources.'' --Klobis (talk) 12:07, April 2, 2017 (UTC)

What is wrong with making connections like that? Especially ones grounded in verifiable fact? I'm all for not jumping to conclusions, but in this case there's no room for error. Oven, Compote, and Daifuku were all referred to as a son or daughter, so why wouldn't their name be Charlotte? I understand you not wanting Charlotte added to the Japanese names, and I agree, but for the English names it only makes sense. I'm not asserting what readers think here. I'm asserting what readers know to be true. I really see no harm in doing it that way. 19:07, April 2, 2017 (UTC)

While I don't agree with this policy, this wiki will accept nothing if not spoon feed in an official source. It's no use to argue with policy regarding one example. Rhavkin (talk) 19:45, April 2, 2017 (UTC)

I think this situation is sorta similar to the Sanji situation. Sanji was said to be a member of the Vinsmoke Family but we waited until Oda, Sanji, or the manga character profiles referred to him as Vinsmoke Sanji. This may not be the same in regard that Sanji disregards his family name but we still changed the page name to Vinsmoke Sanji even though he did disregard his family name at the time. I don't think this situation is any different so we should wait until the manga reveals their names to be Charlotte Oven, Charlotte Compote, etc. Meshack (talk) 19:52, April 2, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it really matters what we call them, because we know that they are Big Mom's children either way. As for Rhavkin's comment, we use official sources because they are official. Speculating would just make the whole wiki look bad. That's also why we reference everything. I'm fine with adding it to those three as long as we leave the Japanese as is. 22:34, April 3, 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. We've been avoiding using family names for characters who have not been officially called by them, because you never know what their true names may be. We left Sanji off the Vinsmoke until he called himself so, because some of us could think he legally threw the surname off (as in Franky did his birth name, and Ace changing his). 03:08, April 4, 2017 (UTC)

MN, I know way we use and note sources, I'm talking about this wiki refusal to use common sense and logic. For example, until Chapter 858 (I think) Chiffon was referred to as Lola's sister and was changed to twin only after Chiffon said it to Nami, despite having the same parents and their resemblance.

This discussion revolved around three points: Logicly - yes. Wiki rules - no. Rhavkin (talk) 05:30, April 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Every member of the family is still a Charlotte even after marriage.
 * Compote, Daifuku, Oven, Anana, Dolce, Dragee, and Anglais are her children (not grandchildren).
 * Should they have the Charlotte family name?

I have to agree with Rhavkin here. Logic should be on equal footing with policy, interwoven into it even. There is nothing speculative if we think about it even a little. 23:48, April 4, 2017 (UTC)

Rhavkin, that argument for logic is not great. Lola and Chiffon may look the same and have the same parents, but that doesn't mean that they are twins. I have a twin brother, and we look nothing alike; I also know people who are a few years apart and get mistaken for fraternal twins. Yes, my accounts are merely anecdotal, but we were not able to make the twin call until it was confirmed.

As for family members who don't have "Charlotte" in the name, I am still a little reluctant. I brought up about Mont-d'Or calling Charlotte Moscato "brother" when he was first introduced, but we did not add Charlotte until after he was reintroduced. To me, this is a similar situation. Do I oppose adding Charlotte? Yes and no. Logically, Compote, Diafuku, and Oven are Big Mom's children (specifically stated and numbered) and almost certainly share her surname; part of me still doesn't like the lack of confirmation, but I can live with adding it. As for Anana, Dolce and Dragee, and Anglais, not yet (because they lack the numbering and being called Big Mom's sons/daughter). 01:11, April 5, 2017 (UTC)

I think the Charlotte family is a different case then other characters without surnames because for this family we have a clear pattern even backed up by a statement from the manga (cap 842). As I often said in the past, sometime not saying something (because you take into account some possibilities) can be more speculative then doing the contrary, because you are implicitly giving credibility to the other "theories". We cannot always play the card of "speculation" when we don't want to state something. As a matter of fact, it's inevitable to draw conclusion based sometime on assumptions. I'll make an obvious example: we don't really wait for an official source before stating the race of a character. We can generally tell when someone is human, a fishman or whatsover. So when we do wait then? When there are reasonable chances of another possibility. A new female character that looks like a human is a human, the chance that she is a wondering kuja outside their island is not worth considering. Another example is Big Mom herself: we didn't assume her race for a long time because of her size.

Therefore it all comes down to pondering the possibilities. How many chances there are that the 3rd and 4th sons of Big Mom don't have the Charlotte surname? That should tell you if we should add the surname or not. What about the brats instead? For their case we should also consider the chances of them not being Big Mom direct children, so even though I personally think it would be safe to call them Charlotte too, I can't really fault that reasoning.

When considering things like this, I try to determine what the other possibilities could be. If I can't think of any, or they seem highly irrational, I don't include them in the decision. With the three new Charlotte kids, there is no room for error. With the little ones, there's more room, which is why this for right now is only about Compote, Daifuku, and Oven. 03:19, April 5, 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, I think that rule should be changed. I think if someone says they're part of the Charlotte Family and aren't introduced with Charlotte, we should add the Charlotte because they are part of the family. It's kinda like referencing other passages in the Bible to address one passage. Meshack (talk) 19:58, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Something that should be simple or common sense has divulged into this :/ I guess we need to revamp the rules Godess of Time Dimaria (talk) 20:02, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

We're going to have to have a formal vote on this matter, since this decision will affect future decisions and policy. 18:42, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Revamping the rules sounds good. A wiki should not be stuck in such trivia technical issues that can easily be solved by applying a bit of logic.

Is anyone other than Klobis currently opposed to this change? Might as well get this out of the way and then deal with the broader-scale forum.

Though I would like to propose keeping Lola the same for now, given how she actually got an intro-box without a last name, plus her status in the family is rather shaky. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:11, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

Infobox
Should we change their jname, rname, and ename ? Rhavkin (talk) 07:27, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

We always keep those aligned with what we get in the manga, even if we agree to change it like we did with the Charlotte family members Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:09, May 2, 2017 (UTC)

The quintuplets names
It seems that unlike the rest of the family, the quintuplets follow a mucical theme naming, which is more evident with Opera. The other 3 would be references to Counter-melody, Cadenza and Cabaletta. No idea for Gara, though.

177.130.192.170 17:46, April 29, 2017 (UTC) (Anonymous)

Gara's name could come from Gara Garayev, who was a famous Azerbaijani composer of the Soviet period. He wrote 110 musical pieces, including ballets, operas, symphonic and chamber pieces, etc. (MissVampy13 (talk) 19:15, April 29, 2017 (UTC))

Given the fact that "R" and "L" are often switched in Japanese translation, "Gala" is a festival, and the Greek word for "Milk". On that note, maybe Cavarette name is "Cabaret" which is also a drink. Anyway, until we get the raw SBS and official translation there is very little we can do other then speculate. Rhavkin (talk) 19:26, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

Gala is also a type of apple, though the milk connection probably makes more sense considering the cream theme. 19:45, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

Catch 29
So we have both Praline and Joscarpone listed as the 29th daughter. I think we're past the trivia section solution since Joscarpone was just introboxed as such in the latest chapter (880), so where do go from here? Rhavkin (talk) 07:51, September 29, 2017 (UTC)

We wait and see if it gets fixed in the volume. For now list Praline as 29th. 08:11, September 29, 2017 (UTC)

There's nowhere to go from here. We literally have no other option than to wait. Two girls can't be the same daughter, simple as that. 10:21, September 30, 2017 (UTC)

Antagonist
The information that was removed before was correct. It was never caught before. Not all antagonists are part of the family and not all of them are part of the family either. SeaTerror (talk) 05:32, January 10, 2018 (UTC)

Go back to the previous edits of this page, the person who removed it already explained that all of the Charlottes that are antagonists are part of the Big Mom Pirates. Also what do you mean not all antagonist are part of the family and not all of them are are part of the family either, I'm a bit confused by what you're trying to say there. Opera298 (talk) 05:41, January 10, 2018 (UTC)

All of the Charlotte Family members that are and were formerly bad guys are members of the Big Mom Pirates. So I'd say it makes more sense to mark the Big Mom Pirates as the main antagonist group and not the Charlotte Family. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:42, January 10, 2018 (UTC)

Expanding the family
I don't know if this conversation was already done before, but on the likelihood that we'll get a better angle of Linlin's parents in the anime, I think they should be added to the gallery for background reasons. In addition, I think we could go into some detail from Linlin's past into the history section of this article, including her troubled childhood. I know Linlin was the one who made her surname into that of a pirate dynasty, but I don't think it would hurt to recognize what her bloodline was before that, regardless of the small amount of details there are. Thoughts?Observer Supreme 15:52, January 28, 2018 (UTC)

Trivia
Where did Pudding said she was going to help the SHs defeat Big Mom? 2600:8802:2500:95F0:684F:2A28:9EEC:C2EE 03:47, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

Ages
Several family members had their ages added without a source. Now, before we discussed whether or not it should be included, I believe an explanation is in order. The ages are speculated by the members position within the family (birth order), a confirm age of at least one family member (mostly centered around the decuplets who was confirmed to be 18), and the sbs fact the Big Mom has given birth about once a year for the past 42 years (vol 85 sbs). Given those facts, since we know the scrapones (snakeneck twins) were born right before Yuen, who was the only one born between the twins and the 18 year old decuplets, Yuen age is detectable to be one year older (19) and the twins a year older then him (20).

Now, since it clearly says that Big Mom gives birth about once a year, and since until said otherwise, pregnancy is consider to be 40 weeks long out of 52 a year, it is possible that the gaps are different so I think that while highly probable, it still speculative and should be removed. Rhavkin (talk) 18:35, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

I agree. At the very least, the reference should then explain this reasoning (instead of just quoting the decuplets ages) and the age shouldn't be stated to be precise.

Keep them. We've calcuted ages for many other characters without worrying about birthdays and whether "x years ago" is exactly that many, and not for example x years, y days. We could add an "Around" or "~" to the ages, but yeah, keep them. The statement was that Big Mom has given birth every year for 42 years, by the way. 18:48, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the "about" is referring to the "once" part as I understand it. Rhavkin (talk) 19:16, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

If we keep them, then the reference should explain this reasoning and also cite the "Big Mom has given birth every year for 42 years" statement. For example, currently on Charlotte Yuen there is written:


 * Age: 19[2](SBS One Piece Manga — Vol. 85, The Charlotte Decuplets are revealed to be 18 years old.)[1](One Piece Manga — Chapter 894 (p. 14-15), Yuen makes his debut.)

I think it should be:


 * Age: ~19[2](SBS One Piece Manga — Vol. 85, The Charlotte Decuplets are revealed to be 18 years old and it was stated Big Mom has been giving birth to babies every year for the about 42 years. Yuen is a generation apart from the decuplets, therefore he is about a year older than them.)

I still don't think it can be deduct like that at all, but I seem to be at a minority here. So by the same logic, since Joscarpone, the 29th daughter, is 20 in this assumption, and Lola, the 23rd daughter, is 26 years old that would mean that excluding male twins, there would have been a girl born every year in between them so Joconde, the 27th daughter, is 22. Rhavkin (talk) 20:25, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Wait, I also think we should in the stay safe and not make these assumptions, but if we do, at very least, we should explain it properly and not just cite an unrelated SBS.

On second thought, there could have been a six-tuplte of girls followed by five male births (for example), so Joconde's age can not be deducted. Can we at least agree to only add ages for those who has their birthing revealed? Depending to the relation to other known birth orders, of course. Rhavkin (talk) 14:00, February 18, 2018 (UTC)

Levi's example reference should be fine. We actually do something similar with Kyros, for instance. Except with Kyros, it's in a separate "Notes" section rather than references, so maybe this would be in Notes as well? In any case I don't see an issue with the calculations. Naturally we would stick to those instances where we know the birth order and age relation with full certainty. 22:11, February 18, 2018 (UTC)

We should only list what we know. We shouldn't assume somebody is older or younger just because we don't have exact dates. SeaTerror (talk) 02:51, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Notes are fine. How do you suggest we phrase it? Also, which characters are we talking about? Rhavkin (talk) 06:00, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "notes". SeaTerror (talk) 20:36, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

ST, look at Kyros' age in his charbox. And to clarify my second question, we are only talking about Yuen and the scrapones right? Rhavkin (talk) 21:08, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Yes. 21:11, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Eh that's a different situation. SeaTerror (talk) 21:45, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

Birth Order
If we now know the order of the sons and daughters then what is the order of them put together?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 09:38, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

What? Rhavkin (talk) 09:47, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

This is no place for questions. One Piece Magazine Vol. 5 gave a list of all the children ages. Rhavkin (talk) 10:22, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I mean the order of the family, like is the 5th son older than the 5th daughter or younger. The 23rd son and daughter, the 18th son and daughter, 36th son and daughter and so on. Oldest to youngest is the order I'm talking about shouldn't that be on the page?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 10:57, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Take it to the template talk page. Rhavkin (talk) 10:59, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Why can't it be on this page as part of the trivia section that way we still know the order of the sons and the order of the daughters in the gallery?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 11:15, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Because the order of a group is never presented on a page except for the templates, and the gallery is the only template where the numbering was previously discussed. Rhavkin (talk) 11:19, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Still, either gallery or navibox, the fact that the sons and daughters order was mentioned in there infobox should be listed along with oldest to youngest.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 11:46, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

So you understand the order ought to be in a template and not the page. Good. Now. if you have a different way of ordering a group, for the hundredth time, TAKE IT TO THE TEMPLATE TALK PAGE! Rhavkin (talk) 12:14, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Someone is not a fan of trivia and while there was a page for blood there should be other pages for lists like age. While the timeline would tell how long ago someone was born it's not always current and can be forgotten when interludes occur or arcs wrapping up.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 14:50, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Two more sons named
https://mobile.twitter.com/undergroundTKG/status/985420784284811264 --66.87.125.3 14:27, April 15, 2018 (UTC)

Please translate this into English first. Thanks

Doublet (blonde): What do we do? Sanji hasn't been shot.

Sunmark (spiky guy): Should we continue with the plan?

Can't be certain of the English spellings but that's the gist of it. BTW the names also appear in the opening credits. --66.87.125.3 15:32, April 15, 2018 (UTC)

The names are Tablet and Saint-Marc and any variants can be discussed on their talk page(s). As for the family name, how credible is that tweet\user? Rhavkin (talk) 20:07, April 15, 2018 (UTC)

They probably are Charlottes but I guess will have to wait until Oda confirms this in a future SBS or something, remember that even some of the Charlottes like Daifuku or Katakuri that are named in the credits don't have the Charlotte part of their names in the credits. Opera298 (talk) 00:10, April 16, 2018 (UTC)

It's not concrete evidence but Reiju's internal monologue strongly implies the people surrounding the Vinsmokes and taking part in the plan are all Charlotte siblings. --66.87.124.51 23:18, April 16, 2018 (UTC)

Seven children named
So, in the anime we've gotten the names of seven Charlotte siblings: Saint-Marc, Tablet, Mobile, Noisette, Dacquoise, Marnier, and Laurin.

I understand that this page has not been updated with these characters because we are waiting for a confirmation from Oda over them, but that's not necessary anymore. The One Piece anime staff has the names and character designs of all of the Charlotte siblings; Oda gave this to them, so any siblings named is Word of God. We don't need to wait because what we get in the anime is fully legitimate. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 03:30, May 1, 2018 (UTC))

There's no evidence for that. SeaTerror (talk) 03:34, May 1, 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean by that? I didn't make this up. I believe this was mentioned in a Japanese article, or some other piece of media. I'm looking for it as we speak. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 03:36, May 1, 2018 (UTC))

Yes, Toei knows who all the Charlotte children are. No, that doesn't mean the guys they've named so far are members of the family. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 04:46, May 1, 2018 (UTC)

They most likely are Charlottes but it's best to play it safe and wait until we get actual confirmation, just like how we played it safe for Amande and waited until we got confirmation of her being a Charlotte we can do the same with these ones as well. Opera298 (talk) 04:45, May 4, 2018 (UTC)

The Dwarf Girl
I have reason to believe that the dwarf girl isn't a daughter of Big Mom.

There are 39 daughters in the family. Flampe is the 36th, and the 77th child overall. During the scene with Big Mom and her youngest kids, we see ten of them: Dolce, Dragee, Anglais, a fishman boy, a bandaged boy, a longneck boy, Anana, a girl wiht a polka-dot hood, a girl with buckteeth, and the dwarf girl in the fishman boy's hand.

If Flampe is the 77th child, then there are eight kids younger then her. Anglais, Dolce, Dragee, hoodie, buckteeth, and Anana definitely are younger. One of the older-looking boys, possibly the bandaged one, could be the son born between the Decuplets and Flampe, along wiith Pudding, making him the 75th or 76th child. That leaves nine children. But there can only be eight. And with there being three human daughters present younger then Flampe, I don't think the dwarf is a child. I know that's a lot of speculation; please let me know if my logic seems unsound. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 03:20, June 4, 2018 (UTC))

This is already being discussed in Template talk:Charlotte Family Gallery. Rhavkin (talk) 10:07, June 4, 2018 (UTC)

My apologies. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 13:21, June 4, 2018 (UTC))

If it's alright with you, may I bring up my point there? I think I have a decent solution to this mystery. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 13:29, June 4, 2018 (UTC))

Squad in the Seducing Woods
In the episode 846, Jinbe says the pursuers are children of Big Mom. In addition, Mobile calls Tablet "big brother". Is it enough to say that they are in the Charlotte Family ? GoldTesoro (talk) 10:11, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

We don't know which were her children and who weren't. The chess soldiers are defiantly not her children, neither is Tablet's goat and they all were part of that squad. Rhavkin (talk) 10:24, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

I would say there is enough indication to list at least Mobile and Tablet as family members. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:28, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

Alright you meant Mobile and Tablet.Opera298 (talk) 10:48, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

The fact that thy are non-canon siblings does not mean they are related to Big Mom. Rhavkin (talk) 10:56, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

If Jinbe says they are Big Mom's children then they are her children however at the same time this is the anime, so I would still say to wait until a future SBS or Databook for further confirmation.Opera298 (talk) 11:02, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

Jinbe imply that some of the squad members are her children but not which. Kato and High-Fat (for example) can be her children and Mobile and Tablet are un-related brothers. Rhavkin (talk) 11:05, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

Jinbe said "I haven't seen Mama's children" so I'm pretty sure he's refering to all of them with the exception of the chess soliders and the bighorn sheep, however like I said before this is the anime and I would say to wait until a future SBS or Databook for further confirmation just to be on the safe side.Opera298 (talk) 11:09, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

That was a filler statement so we shouldn't take that as canon. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 11:59, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

We know from the anime director's statement that they follow Oda's settings for the Charlotte Family: "Oda had detailed settings for ALL of Big Mom's sons and daughters with their rough designs, names, ages, multiple-birth information and so on. The anime staff use these settings including Oda's memos and sketches as reference materials." 16:55, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

After seeing the episode, I agree that we can consider the guys named in the episode to be Charlotte Family members. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:25, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

It is all speculation which is exactly what. They don't even use Charlotte in the credits for those characters. SeaTerror (talk) 19:28, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

Confirm family member do not have their full name in the credits. The main issues here are did Jinbe referred to all non chess soldiers as family members (and if not who is a member and who isn't)? And does a non canon statement can be credible? Rhavkin (talk) 20:49, July 22, 2018 (UTC)

A non-canon statement is never credible. SeaTerror (talk) 00:48, July 23, 2018 (UTC)

Its somewhat credible if that is all we have to go by in terms of who is who. It's not like the anime team will randomly make a non-Charlotte a Charlotte. Its more speculation saying that they would make that kinda mistake, than saying they wouldn't.--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 04:05, July 23, 2018 (UTC)

The problem is we know for a fact that not all members of the pursuit squad are family members, and regardless of non canon credibility, we don't know which are. Do I think the ones introduced are family members? Yes. Is what I or any other users think matter? No. Frankly, until this I think most of the fandom thought Kato at least was a homie. Rhavkin (talk) 09:02, July 23, 2018 (UTC)

So, its confirmed now that Mobile, Tablet, High-Fat, Compo, Kato, and Laurin are the children of Big Mom. The anime episode guide says so in the third paragraph. Here's the link: https://one-piece.com/comicsanime/anime/detail/4791.html. It basically says that there is a fierce battle with -->Big Mom's children (ビッグ・マムの子供) <---. --Nightmare Pirates (talk) 07:17, July 27, 2018 (UTC)

"A non-canon statement is never credible." SeaTerror (talk) 16:03, July 27, 2018 (UTC)

This statement is made by the staff that knows who Big Mom's children are. What is more credible than this at this time. If its going to be noncanon statements arent credible than all of these characters' names are noncredible because they weren't stated in manga. We might as well write on their pages that their canon names are unknown. This isn't even speculation anymore.--Nightmare Pirates (talk) 21:41, July 27, 2018 (UTC)

Since it is from the anime, I would wait. We have new databook coming out in September, so we won't have to wait long. 15:21, August 2, 2018 (UTC)

Gonna close the discussion, this should hopefully be cleared up when OP Magazine comes out Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:31, October 3, 2018 (UTC)

Important Information Regarding Amande's Age
If you read the character summeries in order from right to left like the rest of the volume, you'll notice that the Charlotte Family characters are listed in order of their birth. In volume 88, it's Perospero, Compote, Katakuri, Daifuku, Oven, Amande, Opera, Brulee, Mont-d'or, Smoothie, Galette, and Pudding.

This is very important because it confirms that Amande is older then Opera. And since we already know Opera to be either 46 or 47, this information confirms him and his brothers to be 46 and Amande to be 47, as well as her direct sister, the second daughter. So, in order of birth, the first twelve children of the family are Perospero, Compote, Katakuri, Daifuku, Oven, unkown sister, Amande, Opera, Counter, Cadenza, Cabaletta, and Gala. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 15:20, September 10, 2018 (UTC))

I don't think we can take the volume ordering as solid proof of an age order. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:16, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

I don’t see why not. The rest of the siblings are ordered by age. In fact, I checked multiple volumes and they’re all ordered by birth correctly as well. I agree it’s not an official confirmation, but Oda has a good say on what goes into the volumes and how it’s organaized. (24.15.118.84 19:40, September 10, 2018 (UTC))

Large amount of calcs concerning ages and multiple births
I've been a busy bee and I've deduced a lot of information about how the Charlotte family must fit together with our current info, some of which may need a new section in the article. I'll share a chunk I was going to add to "birth orders", but which I saw should go into its own place:

More to come, for those interested. 86.7.223.84 15:07, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
 * Since the 13th son Basskarte is 42 years old, while the 15th son Noisette is 41 years old, this means that the unseen 14th son must be a twin brother to either one of these sons.

How do we know birth order of twins and triplets from opposing genders? OishiLover75 12:51, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Op Mag Vol. 5 have a list. Rhavkin (talk) 13:03, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Chart
Could we have an image of that chart from the magazine so we can break down the order?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 17:45, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=44675&page=70&p=3960416&viewfull=1#post3960416

There still no clear scan. You can see part of it on the right of the page were the sons appearances start. Rhavkin (talk) 17:52, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Thank You and that is the effort I'm talking about when looking for a source.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 18:04, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

That was a courtesy. What you should have done is acquire the magazine and search for it yourself, and if you hadn't found it, ask the one who made that claim (in this case, me) on his/her talk page about it, and if there was no respond, go to an admin or a mod about it, and then delete it if necessary. Rhavkin (talk) 18:13, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I don't live in the area that sells it and what's a mod?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 18:18, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Order from eBay or amazon or whatever sell them. And a mod is short for moderator,like Kaido. Rhavkin (talk) 18:53, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Although there is not image of the chart, a list is going around One Piece forums:


 * 50: Perospero (1st son) (1st child)
 * 49: Compote (1st daughter) (2nd child)
 * 48: Katakuri, Daifuku, Oven (2nd-4th sons) (3rd-5th children)
 * 47: Mondée, Amande, Hachée, Effilée (2nd-5th daughters) (6th-9th children)
 * 46: Opera, Counter, Cadenza, Cabaletta, Gala (5th-9th sons) (10th-14th children)
 * 45: Cracker, Custard, Angel (10th son, 6th-7th daughters) (15th-17th children)
 * 44: Zuccotto (11th son) (18th child)
 * 43: Brûlée, Broyé (8th-9th daughters) (19th-20th children)
 * 42: Nusstorte, Basskarte, Dossmarche (12th-14th sons) (21st-23rd children)
 * 41: Noisette (15th son) (24th child)
 * 40: Moscato, Mash, Cornstarch (16th son, 10th-11th daughters) (25th-27th children)
 * 39: Compo, Raulin (17th-18th sons) (28th-29th children)
 * 38: Mont-d'Or (19th son) (30th child)
 * 37: Mozart, Marnier (12th-13th daughters) (31st-32nd children)
 * 36: High-fat, Tablet (20th-21st sons) (33rd-34th children)
 * 35: Smoothie, Citron, Cinnamon (14th-16th daughters) (35th-37th children)
 * 34: Saint-Marc, Basanz (22nd-23rd sons) (38th-39th children)
 * 33: Melisé (17th daughter) (40th child)
 * 32: Dacquoise (24th son) (41st child)
 * 31: Galette, Poire (18th-19th daughters) (42nd-43rd children)
 * 30: Snack, Bavarois (25th-26th sons) (44th-45th children)
 * 29: Prim, Praliné (20th-21st daughters) (46th-47th children)
 * 28: Kanten, Katou, Monbu (27th-29th sons) (48th-50th children)
 * 27: Chiboust (30th son) (51st children)
 * 26: Chiffon, Lola (22nd-23rd daughters) (52nd-53rd children)
 * 25: Mobile, Marble, Myukuru, Maple (31st son, 24th-26th daughters) (54th-57th children)
 * 24: Brownie (32nd son) (58th child)
 * 23: Joconde (27th daughter) (59th child)
 * 22: Raisin (33rd son) (60th child)
 * 21: Panna (28th daughter) (61st child)
 * 20: Mascarpone, Joscarpone (34th son, 29th daughter) (62nd-63rd children)
 * 19: Yuen (35th son) (64th child)
 * 18: Newichi, Newji, Newsan, Newshi, Newgo, Nutmeg, Akimeg, Allmeg, Harumeg, Fuyumeg (36th-40th sons, 30th-34th daughters) (65th-74th children)
 * 17: Nougat (41st son) (75th child)
 * 16: Pudding (35th daughter) (76th child)
 * 15: Flampé (36th daughter) (77th child)
 * 14: Anglais (42nd son) (78th child)
 * 13: Wafers (37th daughter) (79th child)
 * 12: Willow (43rd son) (80th child)
 * 11: De-Chat (44th son) (81st child)
 * 10: Normande (38th daughter) (82nd child)
 * 9: Dolce, Dragée (45th-46th sons) (83rd-84th children)
 * 8: Anana (39th daughter) (85th child) --Ultimo Hana (talk) 20:12, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

Charlotte Family Gallery
There are two unnamed kids alongside the other youngsters, a little girl with buckteeth and a bow on her head and a boy with bandages and a sword, but their faces aren't in the gallery. There are plenty of galleries with unnamed characters, so why can't this one include those two? Mugiwara1994 (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Because we have no idea who they are. They're not Big Mom's children, as all 85 have been identified. There's also no evidence that they're grandchildren or part of the family at all. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 03:19, 5 February 2021 (UTC)