Talk:Sanji/Archive 1

WHY?
Why are Franky and Sanji only Strawhats without Discussion Pages?

-points below- It seems Franky stands alone.

Sanji's Major Battles
Whoever was wanting a discussion page on Sanji has gotten their wish. There is a subject I would like to talk about, namely: Why was Sanji fighting Montblanc Cricket? Rainbowman 8 July 2008


 * The discussion pages are for queries reguarding the page and not forum-like chit-chat. Its just up until no one had anything to say about them. However you don't need to create a discussion for the sake of it I add. :-/--One-Winged Hawk 22:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

That's true, but when I was looking at Sanji's article for changes the latest change I saw was in major battles: Sanji vs. Montblanc Cricket. Any idea why that was added? I mean when did Sanji ever fought Montblanc Cricket? Rainbowman 8 July 2008

I believe they fought slightly in chapter 227. Blue Leg 22:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know about this? Rainbowman 8 July 2008


 * It's not exactly a major battle per say but merely a simple exchange of blows due to misunderstandings between the two. It can be comparable to when Zeff attacked Luffy for busting up his restaurant. It's a small battle but not a major battle.Mugiwara Franky 12:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

If it is a minor battle than it should not be under the heading "Major Battles" by necessity. The only reason I believe that "Sanji vs Full Body" is in there is because it is major to his character type but not to the story line. Sanji's Strawberry 9/19/09

Links
there are alot of Links to the same page in this article. ex: Zeff. So unless someone doesn't want me to, I'm taking the links down to one subject--SxeFluff 06:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Is something missing¡?
When Sanji see a good looking girl, or something of a girl he always says "Mellorine", but what the heck means that!!!! Jd0064 00:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There you go! :-) --One-Winged Hawk 06:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I made of search of it in an jap to english dictionary and it didnt have anything. Are you sure you have that right? Mellorine dosent sound right. Sanji's Strawberry

I'm pretty sure mellorine is french for lady. 75.164.211.201 06:36, May 15, 2010 (UTC)Josh Galen


 * Properly is just as "chick" is for a landy also. One-Winged Hawk 07:57, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

He has been "shockingly" converted?
I'd like to call the last section of the story article into question. It says that Sanji has been converted to an Okama, but the picture itself hints at the contrary. If you look closely, you'll notice: 1. There's a dark shadow on his forehead; 2. There's a raised vein on his right arm, and; 3. There's water at the bottom of the picture and he's removed his shoes (could be about to make a swim for it). It seems like he's been captured, seeing as he'd run out of stamina sooner or later, and he's been all dolled up against his will. He could either be waiting to escape when they're not chasing him, or he's lulling them into a false sense of security after which he'll proceed to kicking their butts. Please review this; thank you very much.

--76.243.37.92 02:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)CelestialSushi
 * I know, I thought the same way too. I wrote "Athough a closer look suggests he is not enjoying it.", or something along those lines. But my edit was reverted without a given reason. I'm going to try again. If someone reverts it, I hope they given a reason and someone else does something about it. Kaizoku-Hime 04:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

--Black Leg
I was trying to fix the article to match up with the Black Leg article redirect, but I think I messed up on that XD. Think anyone could help? 22:44, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"Journey Onward"
That tiny paragraphs tries to summarize two sagas and the end of the Arabasta arc in a few sentences. It doesn't work very well. It really needs to be fleshed out.

Diable Jambe
I think you should add the fact that Diable Jambe is inaccurate in french (I'm french myself). If you'd say "Devil Legs" (wich is correct in english, I think), you would say either "Jambes de Diable" (devil's legs) or "Jambes Diaboliques", or even "Jambes Diable" (wich isn't correct in itself, but not as incorrect as "Diable Jambe"). -- undefined 18:27, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not like the Engrish is any better. "Gear Second"? Oda just likes dicking around in foreign languages. The Pope 18:50, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

True enough. --81.250.191.215 19:00, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Plus the Latin languages -> Japanese is not perfect at the best of times.


 * Also Robin's moves are a bundle of mess of languages. One-Winged Hawk 20:14, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Oda should just use japanese and stop hurting our eyes with poorly translated expressions. -- undefined 20:26, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * And ears, but in Japan its supposedly cool to use a foreign language. Its the same in English when a person speaks French or Spanish for example. One-Winged Hawk 20:41, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Age
I thought Sanji is 20, not 19. Which is he? Yatanogarasu 19:55, March 20 2010 (UTC)

He's the same age as Zoro. So I guess that makes him 19. Or else the both of them are 20. SeaTerror 03:48, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sanji is 19 in the manga while he is 20 in the anime, because he smokes.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 10:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

They never said that he was 20 in the anime because he smokes. SeaTerror 17:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't find any sources at the moment, but I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Sanji is 20 in the anime because of the smoking. Can't show people under 20 smoking, lest someone think it's cool, I guess. But for all I know it could be misinformation since I can't find any sources that confirm it. Sanji is, however, currently 19 in the manga and it is confirmed in the SBS.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 18:39, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Frm my acknolwedgement, no one has ever mentioned the age. While the limit is 19, Sanji was smoking as a child. One-Winged Hawk 20:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * According to Sanji's Manga to Anime difference section he was never shown to be smoking as a child in the anime.


 * I found it, check under Bowdlerise. TvTropes state that in the animation guidebok One Piece RAINBOW Sanji is supposed to be 20 in clear contradiction to what Oda says. Unfortunatley One Piece RAINBOW page does not seem exist on this wikia and I do not have a copy, so I can't verify if the claim is true or not. :(--Uncanny Ultrabeast 20:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * One Piece RAINBOW. Tipota 22:36, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Note: the image deleted. Tipota 20:35, June 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks! :)--Uncanny Ultrabeast 00:24, March 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Rainbow was souly anime based, so it doesn't suprise me. They didn't include Sanji smoking as a child because of the Japanese laws. One-Winged Hawk 22:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sanji's cigarettes
When exactly Sanji's cigarettes box is shown?

I don't know if they're showed some place else, but the brand of his cigarettes can be seen when Sanji falls off the Going Merry during the Skypiea arc. Don't forget to sign your posts! Greetings --Omartron 23:48, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

About the trivia
When reading through the trivia section I found the eyebrow is one of the seven great mysteries in One Piece, so my question is: What are the other six mysteries? Are there actually other six mysteries or is it just speculation? Greetings --Omartron 23:34, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The eyebrow? I thought it was the left eye. Maybe it's both, but in an episode of SBS, Oda directly refers to his left eye as being one the seven great mysteries of one piece. Karshí 18:25, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Question.
I read in Wikipedia that Sanji has dextrocardia, where his heart is located on the right side of his body and in direct opposition to normal people.

Is this true, and if so, is it documented here? --Reikson 02:10, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * First I heard of it.Mugiwara Franky 02:19, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, apparently, Sanji said it to Usopp at some point during the fight against Enel. --Reikson 03:03, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or, at least, that's what I read on Wikipedia here (Scroll down towards the very bottom). --Reikson 03:06, June 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a mistake. The scene where Usopp listens for Sanji's heart was intended to be a slight joke to a rather serious matter. Enel had zapped Sanji and when Usopp checked for a heartbeat, he couldn't hear one coming from the chef. Nami however pointed out that Usopp was listening for a heartbeat at Sanji's right side. When Usopp checked Sanji's left side, he was able to hear a faint heartbeat fortunately.Mugiwara Franky 03:40, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

I stand corrected. --Reikson 02:36, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

IS ANYONE ABLE TO PHOTOSHOP SANJI AND LET US SEE HIM WITH BOTH EYES REVEALED? :D

Last Name ?
Can sometell me Sanji's last name or if he has one?

Glasses ?
I heard somewhere that Sanji does wear glasses. Does he really wear glasses sometimes ? In the game One Piece Unlimited Adventure you have different outfist there can a Sanji be seen with glasses. CapoDiLoco


 * Yeah, a couple of times we've seen him with glasses, but Nami has had specs too on at least 1 occusion. 94.168.119.106 14:29, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * How come this is not written at apperance ? CapoDiLoco

Character Box Image
Now that Sanji's undergone a design change, should we change the picture in the character box to match his current look? The Pope 22:16, October 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Since it is a common issue for all Strawhats, please, further discussion on one place - Talk:Nami (where it had started earlier). Ruxax 00:01, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Chute = Shoot?
It might not make sence for some people, but I'll ask it anyway

Is the portuguese word Chute (pronounced shoo-té) translated to phoetic japanese as shuto? It's just a theory, but I wanna know if it is before changing anything on articles. GMTails 22:40, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Epithet
Theres no point to have all those other nicknames there that he called once by like one person, his epithet should just be what the world call him. He is known to the world as Black Leg Sanji so might as well delete all he other ones.Zicoihno 20:14, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

By extension of your logic, that would mean that Crocodile should not have Mr. 0 listed as an epithet since "the world" didn't know him as that or refer to him by that name. We want this wiki to be as detailed as possible, so whatever epithet anyone is given, regardless of who uses it or for how long or by how many people, it should be added. Mr. Prince and The Hunter may have been short-lived but they were still epithets nonetheless. It may seem like we're overdoing it, but that's how it works.DancePowderer 20:26, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

2 years later photos
I want to replace the picture of the thousand sunny witha picture of Sanji getting mad at Luffy, I have the photo but don't know how to replace it, if I am allowed to replace it can someone tell me how?

How Come No One Has Noticed?
In case anyone is blind, there's a part in the Sanji info box that doesn't belong there. Unfortunately, I can't remove it. Can someone else please get rid of it. I can't believe no one has done anything about it for so long. Eddy1215 14:03, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Fixed ok. Some anon that we didnt see. Relax.

What are you talking about? It's still there. For the record it says "strong points: infiltration, sabotage". That doesn't belong there. Eddy1215 14:09, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Check again dammit...

Thanks, but you don't have to swear. Eddy1215 14:17, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

If dammit is swearing, then you must be new on this wikia XD, dammit is a word I use allot and I've seen that no one ever had a problem with it so don't call it a swear, its the same thing with ahou, moron, baka, idiot, etc...teme, kuso, shikusho etc. THIS IS ONE PIECE XD

These aren't epiphets
An epiphet is sort of like a title that's so associated with that person that it's used instead of or together with that persons name ("Whitebeard" and "Blackbeard" would be examples of the first, "Straw Had Luffy" and "Red-Haired Shanks" of the second category). Now, let's look at this list: Five of these are insults by Zoro, two of these are insults by Zeff, one is just Robins nickname for him, "The Hunter" and "Love-Cook" is something he just called himself once, "Mr. Prince" is a fake name he used once - really the only thing that should stay is "Black-Leg" because that's the only one that's actually being used as an epiphet (namely by the marines). 84.59.53.187 15:13, September 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Black-Leg" (黒脚 Kuro Ashi?)
 * "Love-Cook" (self)
 * "Little Eggplant" (Zeff: Japanese versions, English manga)
 * "String Bean" (Zeff: 4Kids dub)
 * "Dartboard-Eyebrow" (Zoro: Japanese version)/"Eyebrow Freak" (Zoro: English dub)/"Twirly Brows" (Zoro: English manga)
 * "Cook-san" (Robin)
 * "Mr. Prince" (Nickname by himself to Baroque Works)
 * "The Hunter" (self)
 * Prince of the Dumbass Kingdom (by Zoro)
 * "Shitty cook" (by Zoro)

I agree and believe I have taken them out once. Dont know who put them back. 15:15, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Removed. 15:40, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Rufi = Roja Zoro = Shirubuza Reri Sanji = ?
Luffy acts like roger Zoro mirrors Reliegh to the point of him getting lost like relieigh Than what about sanji, he is like shanks i bet u sanji will lose one of his legs to save a kid and give the kid luffys straw hat and make a pirate crew called the black legged pirates.

Do this on a forum or on a blog please, don't do it on the talk of an article.

Also remember to sign u r post. 19:07, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Why isn't Baratie in his affilattion at least former?Antonisgabrielides 22:27, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well.. Baratie isnt a Crew or an organization. Its just a restaurant..

Then why is "Affiliations: Baratie" written in Zeff's article? Omegazion 10:42, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Who the hell is Roja and Shirabuza Reri? SeaTerror 04:19, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Question
I found this picture of sanji playing with the mermaids. Since you replace all the manga images with anime ones,is it okay if I change it ? http://www.anivision.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Yonkou_One_Piece_528_HDD0A0BC75_Dec-22-2011-9.34.51-PM.jpeg of cause i make it smaller XD Horohorogirl 19:40, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Don't "change" the picture, update it. If there are further discussion to do use the picture's talk page. But I can't even load that picture, so I don't know if it's the best one.

I managed to get it loaded earlier and it's basically this shot just in better quality (and without the player of course):

(This image was taken out so you guys stop whining. And use your damn brains to READ next time...)

21:47, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

That will update this right? I believe there is the same shot in the anime too... anyway you shouldn't upload it if there is the watchop watermark. Maybe I can find a clena shot.

The one Horo-chan posted is a clean shot. I just placed the one above to show what scene it is because you said it doesn't load for you. And no, the scene isn't in the anime. It shows only Sanji taking off his shirt. 21:59, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well anyway usually you upload the picture, then if someone doesn't like or thinks that it's not suited he either revert it or upload another version. If you disagree with him, you change version yourself then if an agreement isn't reached, you talk it out in the talk page. Remember that we don't have to use always anime, there is no such a rule.

I should point out that the anime pic still has the play bar at the bottom. Someone will have to take care of that if we're going to use it. 22:45, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Theres a watermark or something in the top left too, thats a no-no. One-Winged Hawk 23:11, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

No offence but that picture is horrible.. If you can find it without the watermark and that line then its ok..

What is up with Toei lately? They use to animate scenes from the manga exactly how it happened. Now they just use the same panels and story but create their own filler animation, SeaTerror 05:38, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

Why do you guys never bother to read the what people wrote before you? For crying out loud... The image above was just to show WHAT SCENE she intended to replace the manga image with since Levi complained about not being able to load the link she posted. The image in question is this 09:58, February 6, 2012 (UTC):

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6903/sanjiswim.png

Bounty higher
It would seem his bounty is now 500 000 000

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/713/2   -makrell

That's not official. 10:36, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yup. That's fan-art which was only included in the scanlation set. 11:09, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Rokushiki User
Is Sanji truly a Rokushiki user? If so, I will add him to the category of the Rokushiki Users and to the page of Rokushiki.--Shay.avigad.1 (talk) 20:29, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

No. His abilities are variations of those techniques but are not exactly the same. 20:31, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Okama?
alright me and gal have been undoing each other a couple of times now over whether or not Sanji should be in the okama category even though he is no longer an okama and i dont want to turn this into an edit war so im taking it here. please tell me whether you think he should or should not be in the okama category-- 04:15, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

The category was stealthily removed from the page a while ago, but it's been there for a while.

Anyways, there's no "former okama" category, so he must go in the current category.



04:17, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

i known there's no former okama category, but if he is no longer an okama then it doesnt make sense to classify him as one. for example if we label a character as dead if he supposedly dies, but then when the character turns out not to have died then we would remove the category would we not?-- 04:20, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Different case, since that's an "absolute" category, while categories like "Okama" contain any and all characters that have been Okama. Other examples include location categories, which include characters that are introduced on the islands, or the "Smokers" category, which has people that have not smoked in the current timeline. 04:22, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * then we should change that so that those categories only contain characters who currently fit the parametres of the category, to make it completely relevant-- 04:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Joekido's right here. He was forced to wear the dress, so he shouldn't go in the category. 04:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

^-- 04:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

He seems to be embracing it actually in the Chapter 544 cover.. Even if he was initially forced into it, it doesn't mean he wasn't once a crossdresser.

@Raven, no. That would defeat the purpose of categorization. 04:27, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

just because someone does something once doesnt mean they should categorized by it, and whats more i think that sloppy categorization like adding former and people who dont fit the parametres of a category into a category defeats the purpose of proper categorization-- 04:32, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

That's how we've been doing categorization for years though Raven, so if you want to change it, you must open a forum.

As it stands right now though, Sanji as an Okama fits our current categorization guidelines. 04:33, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

we'll you cant say that sanji currently fits the okama category because were debating that right now, since he isnt an okama-- 04:35, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

He fits the current guidelines of categorization because he was once an Okama. He has to be in the category unless the way we do things changes. 04:36, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

he was forced into those clothes, plus im pretty sure it was only that one time, which wouldnt make him an okama by definition-- 04:38, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

"Okama" refers more to the personality type than the physical act of wearing clothes of the opposite gender (which is why Dellinger isn't one). On top of that, if we applied the "one instance" approach to categorization, then Luffy would be considered a swordsman because of Nightmare Luffy. 04:41, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Nightmare Luffy is a different case, as someone wielding a sword for a short period of time doesn't make them a swordsman.

Sanji, on the other hand, seemed to be an Okama from the time of the cover story, all the way until the Post-War Arc. He had the personality traits as well, so he fits the definition.

Inazuma is a prime example of an Okama who doesn't fit the personality traits, by the way. He only has the outfit. 04:46, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

i dont think sanji was cross dressing throughout the entire timeskip nor do i think his personality fits-- 04:48, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

As I said, Post-War Arc, which was the arc before the timeskip.

In the chapter cover linked above, he definitely fits the personality traits. There's little to go on based on the cover story though, since no dialogue is really there, but that one chapter cover is enough. 04:53, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

look he wasnt an okama that long and his personality definitely doesnt not fit. in fact sanji has shown a hatred of okamas which one could call homophobia-- 04:55, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Even if it wasn't for "long", it was still for a significant amount of time. As for personality fitting, look at the cover of the chapter please. He's seen laughing and frolicking through the water, which fits the okama personality definition layed out by Zodiaque.

His hatred of Okamas is irrelevant to his former status as one. 04:57, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

no i think his hatred is entirely relevant-- 05:01, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

That's like saying someone's hatred of an old organization they were in means they weren't a member of the organization. He still was an Okama. 05:03, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

no this is different, and he wasnt an okama-- 05:04, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

How is it different? How wasn't he an Okama? Give reasons please, or this discussion isn't going anywhere. 05:08, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

If he was an Okama, then make a "former Okama" category and be done with it. If Kuzan is no longer categorized as a Marine, then there's no way Sanji should be categorized as an Okama. 05:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Those are different cases though JSD. We don't make categories when they only fit one person. The former marines category wouldn't exist if Kuzan was the only former marine. 05:27, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, still not satisfied with your arguments Gal. "Laughing and frolicking in the water" isn't what I was referring to - the okama personality is better defined than that within the One Piece world. And there's not even any evidence in the manga that Sanji was dressed up like that for the entire war. Stands to reason that the cover story would cover the Straw Hats' most significant moments when separated, but that's all. Could've easily been just a few minutes or hours. 05:47, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? He was never an okama which is why the category had always been removed. SeaTerror (talk) 05:53, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Can you explain then, how Inazuma fits the definition? His personality remains relatively the same through gender change.

Even without knowing the specific time frame in which he was an Okama, he still wore the attire. We have certain characters listed as Smokers even though they've only put one cigarette in their mouth throughout the series. 06:01, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

true izuma's personality isnt the same as the average okama, yet he is an okama unlike sanji who is not. why are we even discussion this still? there's a clear majority and only gal is arguing against it-- 06:23, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

JSD doesn't seem to be "against' me. 4 vs. 1 isn't a "clear majority", and really, the only ones who are giving actual argumentation are Zodiaque and somewhat ST. Wait for more input. 06:25, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

i disagree i believe it is a clear majority (a majority being 50% + 1), we dont need more input. if oda wanted sanji to be an okama he would have made him an okama, i guess you just dont understand how oda writes-- 06:37, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

This talk page has only been open for about two hours now. There has not been enough time for more people to bring their thoughts to the table.

Are you seriously trying to mirror the arguments against you from the Sabo talk page onto this talk page? Please keep that petty crap off the talk pages, thanks. Nothing here has anything to do with Oda's writing, but whether or not we should consider Sanji an okama going off of what Oda showed us in the cover story. 06:43, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * i am using your sabo argument against you, but not out of pettiness. im doing it because your arguments are so weak they're not worth the time to think up intelligent rebuttals, instead im using your half assed reasonings against you-- 20:17, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sanji was never an Okama. He might wore the dress but there was no point where he demonstrated feminine behavior. Inazuma on the other hand, although having a serious expression, seemed to enjoy being a woman. Come on, Sanji was never into men this is clear and bright as day. The guy hates the Okama's guts.

I'm neutral on this topic,but I find it amusing nobody reasoned why Inazuma was an okama despite calling him one :/--

Inzauma should be classified as an Okama due to his association with the Newkamas/Kamakaba Kingdom and his frequent gender-swapping which seems to have no practical purpose (Ivankov's relates to his fighting abilities) other than his own enjoyment. Anyways, Gal I'm not really "with you". The okama category is for people who are currently Okamas. Just because we don't typically make categories for one article, it does not mean that Sanji should be placed in the "Okama" category, as doing so creates the false impression that Sanji is currently an Okama. Or it creates the false impression that once someone is an okama, they're an okama forever. Instead of trying to force Sanji into the Okama category, you should be trying to force the creation of a "Former Okama" category because that's the only way you can possibly be accurate. 15:53, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

I think the "former" categories should always be created when needed. Aside for that I also find it strange to classify him as an (former) okama because he was kinda tricked in becoming one, but if that was true then Coby shouldn't be considered a former pirate as well.

^clear majority-- 20:17, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Even though he was forced into being one, it doesn't mean he wasn't one. And yeah Levi, Coby is a good example. He was forced into being a pirate, and we have the former pirates category on him.

@Raven's comment above, lol no.

@Vaz. If you read above, you'll see that feminine behavior was exhibited on the chapter cover.

@JSD. Okay, then we should make the former okamas category for Sanji. It just seemed silly because it only contains 1 character, that's it. 20:23, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Although now that I think about it, we kinda treat (categorize) the okama like a "race/tribe" (no offence intended), so the question is: how can someone be a "former" okama? Isn't like saying "former human"? That doesn't make much sense... but my previous point still stand, so I don't really know what to do...

A single-character category is useless. I say, either we leave him in the Okama category, or we remove him. In my opinion, being an Okama is kind of a way of life. Sanji crossdressed a little during a short period of time that he know seem to reject, he clearly never was an okama to me.

^ seems legitimate.

Full name
So, with the release of chapter 812, we have at least one translation of Sanji's family name. Now, apart from waiting to see what other versions we get, we really need to discuss how we're using it on his page. I'm in favour of putting it in his introductory paragraph, in a form such as "Sanji is revealed to be a member of the Vimblabblahblah Family", but not full on change his name to Sanji Vimblahblahblah.

13:34, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

We renamed Law's article when his full name was revealed. Shouldn't we do the same thing here? 13:38, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Once we get an accurate translation, change the name like we did for Law. However, we should just refer to him as "Sanji" everywhere else. 13:44, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

How do you know whether it's Vinsmoke Sanji or Sanji Vinsmoke? You could say it's 95% likely that it's the former, but not 100%. And how do you know that he hasn't abandoned his family (and hence family name) like Sabo did? 104.238.45.80 13:45, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

It's going to be a pain in the balls to get bots to change the links if we change the page name. And I did deliberately not phrase it as Sanji Vimblahblahblah or Vimblahblahblah for that reason.

13:47, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Let's wait for the mangastream version then Keekian (talk) 13:49, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

We're doing that anyway, lol. Once we have more than one bad translation we can ignore them both and get one of our translators to work it out. Then we can actually discuss what to do with the page.

13:51, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

As Kaido said, if we can wait for Klobis or JOP or someone who is in an expert in Japanese to confirm the translation first, then sure. Keeikian, recently, mangastream has been making translation errors quite frequently. So it might not be wise to trust them. Lelouch Di  Britannia  13:52, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm ok to move the page to the full name for consistency, no matter how ugly it would seem we don't just name pages with ones "we like". However I would wait to understand the circumstances of his family to be explained because it could be very well a case lik Cutty Flam where Sanjy said "screw that family ain't one of them". In that case I think it would be acceptable to leave it as "Sanji".

@Keekian: In fact, we only use their scanlation because Mangapanda's works of art are pretty obvious.

It's definitely Vinsmoke (ヴィンスモーク, Vinsumōku). Oh and it's his family name, Capone says Vinsmoke Family and Charlotte Family. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:46, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Good work, but if it's all the same we're going to wait for a translator we know to doublecheck this.

14:48, January 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. ^_^ • Seelentau 愛 議 14:51, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Changing the links isn't entirely necessary if we move the page. 15:14, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I'd recommend simply waiting for the next chapter to be doubly sure. But in any case, nobody seems to be listening to the requests not to edit that into the page; might I recommend locking it until this discussion finishes? The Dreamer (talk) 15:57, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Recommend all you want, the only reason it isn't is because we haven't had an admin online yet to deal with it.

16:04, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

I've semi-protected editing and fully-protected moving.

Jopie: "It's probably Vinsmoke. (ヴィンスモーク)" If we're agreeing to move it to his full name (which is most likely Vinsmoke Sanji) I think we have enough evidence. 16:52, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, we have a name. Now to discuss what we're putting it as.

17:08, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Hold off on adding anything until we know more. We don't know if this is another Cutty Flam case where Sanji threw away his family name, or a case similar to Law's where he chose to conceal it. 18:01, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

We'll have to move it for consistency. If we don't then we can just put it in the introduction and infobox. Either way it's best to wait for more information. Also a bot is most definitely not needed if the name is changed. Redirects exist for a reason. SeaTerror (talk) 19:13, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

(Effing edit conflict) We'd be doing Riku Viola if we go for Vinsomke Sanji. So unless we're ready to take that plunge (again), then Sanji stays as Sanji for now. 19:16, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that we can't change Sanji's name until he's actually called Vinsmoke Sanji by a character. 19:21, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

Then we have to move Law's page back to just Trafalgar Law, Yata. SeaTerror (talk) 19:41, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

But Law did refer to himself as Trafalgar D. Water Law once. Sanji just needs something similar to happen, just once. KingCannon (talk) 19:53, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

I kind of take back what I said earlier. If we move Sanji to "Vinsmoke Sanji" cause he's part of the Vinsmoke Family then we have to move Viola to Riku Viola and Pudding to Charlotte Pudding. 20:15, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm with Ryu on this. We should wait to hear his full name before we make any mention of "Vinsmoke Sanji" or "Sanji Vinsmoke". We have a chapter next week, right? Let's not rush it.

Regarding the eventual rename, we don't have to change the links. We had Forum:Eliminating the Pipe Linking Rule for a reason, guys. 20:21, January 14, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there's ever been a single character in One Piece that has the last name follow the first. It's always [Last name] [First name] which would make him Vinsmoke Sanji --Mandon (talk) 01:26, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Kelly Funk and Bobby Funk. Last name follows first. In any case, I support holding off on edits to Sanji's full name at least until next week. As others have said, we don't know if this is a case of discarding a name or concealing it. MizuakiYume (talk) 01:35, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Neither of those scenarios would be relevant. Remember that we renamed Trafalgar Law's page to Trafalgar D. Water Law despite the fact that he both discarded and concealed that name. --Mandon (talk) 02:23, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Except that he never discarded or actively concealed his middle name and D. initial - he didn't know the significance of D. as a child and willingly spoke his full name to Baby 5 and Buffalo, and as an adult freely revealed the fact that he had D. in his name to both Doflamingo and Sengoku. Different scenario here.--Xilinoc (talk) 02:54, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

I think it is closer to the situation with Sabo where he didn't want anything to do with his family. He acted in a manner that his family tried to correct which he wasn't having. The cruise ship being attacked by pirates was his unintentional escape. There is also the possibility that he had thought they had all died due to the storm and that Zeff believed that the ship had sank. At that moment he decided to live life as a normal person instead of a noble.AryaVega (talk) 03:07, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

I say we wait. It will probably be only a few weeks at most until we get a correct, full name. Until then, anything we do (changing the page name or Sanji's name in the first sentence of the article) would be speculatory and jumping the gun. In past experiences, that kind of action has made us look bad as a community. 05:33, January 15, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, seems like we're in agreement on at least one thing: Wait. So let's wait until we get more to discuss this further. 18:47, January 16, 2016 (UTC)

In Mangastream's 813 release, Brook said "Vinsmoke? So that's Sanji's last name?" and in panda he said "Sanji's a Vinsmoke?" Dunno if that's enough evidence for anything, but I thought I'd leave it here. If a translator can translate what he said, that'd be great too. 22:14, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

No one's disputing that's his name, we're just holding off until we know more about Sanji's situation. We don't know if he's like Cutty Flam and threw away his name or if it's like a Trafalgar D. Water Law where he chose to keep his name hidden. 22:17, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

Chapter 826
Alright, now it appears that we have naming conventions for two members of the Vinsmoke family. I believe that the time for renaming has come. It's just a question of if mangastream did the classic localization thing and made it "Yonji Vinsmoke" instead of "Vinsmoke Yonji". 17:01, May 19, 2016 (UTC)

Easy solution, wait for the raw.

17:03, May 19, 2016 (UTC)

I'm still against renaming because Sanji's never been referred to as Vinsmoke Sanji - I would prefer to get his full name, and see whether or not he has cast it aside. We don't have Riku Viola or Riku Rebecca, and it would seem a bit risky to give a kind of speculatory name to one of our biggest pages Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:40, May 19, 2016 (UTC)

I thought the whole point of waiting was to find out about the circumstances he left his family and we still don't know them. In particular, we have to understand if it's a "Franky case", where he casted out his name, or a "Law case", where he simply hid it. The latter is starting to become the most likely scenario, but still, if we are willingly to make that assumption then shouldn't have we renamed it already?

I agree with Levi, that was the reason we didn't do it earlier. 21:27, May 19, 2016 (UTC)

Also, shoud we add in his intro page that he is a prince or at least a former prince since it was said that the Vinsmokes are still considered royalty, or do yall prefer to wait to hear more about his situation? Ddog892 (talk) 00:50, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

We'll wait it out some more then. 14:32, May 31, 2016 (UTC)

Black Leg Kanji
I can't help but notice that the epithet kanji in the sidebar is wrong, it says "黒脚" when the correct kanji used in the manga and official stuff is "黒足". I know they mean the same thing (give or take) but it's still incorrect as far as canon goes. I can't edit the sidebar, so if someone who can would correct it that'd be great! ^^ (Also it's how it's written on the Japanese wikipedia page for the pirates of One Piece, just thought I'd source it) Espeoradar (talk) 22:39, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Red Legs Greaves
"Red Legs" Greaves= Red Leg Zeff, Black Leg Sanji. Sanji is technically the 2nd strawhat to based off a real life pirate, so why isn't this in Sanji's trivia?? Blackstorm89 (talk) 01:24, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

This is the only one that may be valid. However it definitely doesn't belong on Sanji's article and instead should go on Zeff's. SeaTerror (talk) 03:32, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

But Greaves was a boy born into royality like sanji, they both got stowawayed and Zeff was always abusive to Sanji but it was more of him getting getting stronger not only in the art of cooking but fighting, Greaves Wikipedia even said it also refers to Sanj. iBlackstorm89 (talk) 03:59, May 25, 2016 (UTC)

No he wasn't. Also anybody can edit Wikipedia. SeaTerror (talk) 23:03, May 26, 2016 (UTC)