Talk:Kurotsuru

Should this page be moved to "Blackbeard (doctor)"? --Meganoide 11:25, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Two Words
It looks like this guy's name is two words. If you look on the jacket there is a space between black and beard. So his name should be Black Beard. It should be moved. 21:13, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

Nice catch. 21:15, July 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, good eye. Do it.

Name of Article
This article needs to be moved back to Black Beard instead of Kurotsuru. We use manga images as the number 1 source for names. Kurotsuru came from the databook so it isn't as reliable. SeaTerror (talk) 23:00, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the manga never said "Black Beard" is his actual name. It was just written on his coat. Could be a nickname. 20:33, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

That's a bit unprofessional to have a nickname on the coat. 20:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Speculations. 20:53, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

We do use manga names over databook names. Similar to how Happa is used and not Yamao. I don't think it's speculation since it's ON his coat. 21:02, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

It might be a nickname. 19:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Stop edit warring. The manga said Black Beard, and the databook said Kurotsuru. Saying it's his nickname is SPECULATION. 19:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'll just copy and paste the way we do sources again:

Original manga (especially those with English text written in it)

SBS

Databooks

Anime

Scanlators/fansubbers (depends on reliability of scanlators/fansubbers)

English Manga (Viz)

English Subs (Funimation)

English Dubs (FUNimation SeaTerror (talk) 19:39, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Saying its his name is speculation. 19:40, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

HE WAS NEVER CALLED BLACKBEARD BUT HE WAS GIVEN A PROPER NAME, WHICH IS KUROTSURU. 19:52, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

^ Somebody doesn't know how we do sources here. SeaTerror (talk) 19:55, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

The correct way we refer to sources in order to solve name issues is indeed as mentioned, by SeaTerror, above. The manga takes precedence and everything else comes later in the order specified. That is especially true when there are multiple names used and we need to find which one to pick. Some examples are Alabasta, Brogy and Dorry, to name a few. MasterDeva (talk) 20:56, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

But the thing is he was never called Black Beard. 21:32, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

why do we need to change it, that would just complicate things Kuro(black)Tsuru(beard) is fine, besides it differentiates him from Teach -- 22:00, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

As ST said, it's our policy to use manga as the primary source & use others when there isn't 1 in it. They're already differentiated as the doctor's name is 2 words while Teach's epithet is 1. Plus, there's also the disambiguation page.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 22:12, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, "Black Beard" never received the proper kanji, romaji and such. Kurotsuru did. 01:15, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Manga over databooks is how we do things. Black Beard is the correct name due to it being from the manga. SeaTerror (talk) 01:47, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

He was not called Blackbeard. 12:45, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Black Beard more than anything is simply based on a conclusion arrived at without being directly stated in the manga. Last I checked, the ones crying foul of Kurotsuru don't like it when people arrive at conclusions that aren't directly stated in the manga. In short, Black Beard was more like an assumption (on the part of yours truly) while Kurotsuru is actually confirmed in a better way. 17:01, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Confirmed my ass. The name is flat out shown on his coat and since manga is the number one priority we use the manga name over the databook name. SeaTerror (talk) 17:31, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

the name on his coat say Kurotsuru 17:34, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I think you need to go to the doctor to get your eyes checked. SeaTerror (talk) 18:41, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

you mean an Optomitrist 18:55, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Quit trolling. SeaTerror (talk) 21:15, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Then quit being a rude little git. 21:21, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

You're British? Also I'm being rude? SeaTerror (talk) 21:35, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see kanji for Black Beard, so no. Databook says Kurotsuru with a proper kanji, so why not? I mean we said Jinbei and Jimbei before databook showed us Jinbe. 07:14, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Does "Kurotsuru" actually translate to anything? I know "Kuro" is black, but what about "tsuru"? 07:19, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Manga over databook is indeed right, but manga did not give out the kanji, and based on the story: Ace mistook the doctor as Blackbeard based on the name tag, meaning the name tag is not his real name (note the mistook). No kanji, mistake on Ace's part, Black Beard is, for all we know, could be the name of the pharmacy he works for, so who knows? Databook, however, gave us the kanji, so since manga did not, databook is top priority. 07:21, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI at SeaTerror: "Confirmed my ass", that is indeed rude. 07:21, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * At Uknownada: "Tsuru" means crane or "to hang", meet Vice Admiral Tsuru. 07:22, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Or in this case, Dr. Black Crane. 08:14, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

i thought tsuru could also mean beard, which is why i found this argument weird cause i though kurotsuru literally meant blackbeard-- 16:27, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

There is no definitive word for beard or mustache in Japanese. Hige is all-encompassing by meaning facial hair. So Kurohige, Shirohige, and Chahige don't literally mean Blackbeard, Whitebeard, and Brownbeard, respectively, but rather black, white, and brown facial hair. 16:34, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * oh interesting so kurotsuru just means "black hanging"?-- 16:41, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Or crane, like Vice Admiral Tsuru. 16:49, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Jinbe was never romanized in the manga. Also you need to read the cover story again. He didn't mistake him because of the name on his coat. He looks almost EXACTLY like Blackbeard. Also you're wrong since manga is ALWAYS the top priority SeaTerror (talk) 16:50, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Give me the kanji for Dr. Black Beard, then we will talk. 17:46, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

I guess you don't read the manga. It would make perfect sense, actually. SeaTerror (talk) 18:06, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Kuro means black. Tsuru doesn't mean beard thus his name's translation is not Black beard. 18:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

You don't translate names *facepalm*. The romanization on his coat is what his name is. That is what romanization means. SeaTerror (talk) 18:10, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

....No. 18:13, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Quit trolling. SeaTerror (talk) 18:14, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Reading the discussion, I suppose it does make sense that his name is Kurotsuru. 18:47, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Makes no sense at all considering that his name was directly romanized in the manga. SeaTerror (talk) 19:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

IT'S ON HIS COAT? 20:04, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

And once again, SeaTerror is the only one still fighting. That old song and dance just keeps playing, doesn't it? 20:12, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

so lets just keep it the way it is, no poll -- 20:14, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Who needs a poll when ST is the only one against it. 20:16, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Further agreement with everyone but ST. 20:57, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

How funny. So when did you all become Isshou? Considering the fact that Galaxy and Hime both said the same things? But keep it as Kurotsuru anyway if you all want to just take a giant crap on our own sourcing rules. Might as well change other names said in the databooks over the manga. SeaTerror (talk) 21:04, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Spoken like a true sore loser.

Spoken like somebody who doesn't crap on their own rules. Unlike yourself. SeaTerror (talk) 21:22, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Guess this means he stays as Kurotsuru, now. Great discussion, everybody. 21:25, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

"Confirmed my ass", "Crap on their own rules". ST, you are asking for a banning, aren't you? "Directly romanized in the manga", give us the romanization of "Dr. Black Beard" then, wouldn't you? It was only in English, no more. 23:09, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion solved, doesn't everyone think ST was rude during it? "Confirmed my ass", "Crap on their own rules". We really should deal with this problem. 06:02, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

No, you just want me banned since you have a personal grudge. Seriously though, if you can ignore the own wikia rules then there's no point in having any rules whatsoever. SeaTerror (talk) 16:50, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

We CAN treat rude behavior as vandalism. Just sayin'. 16:55, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Read what it says again. I never said I was superior to anybody. Not to mention that wasn't discussed in the original MOS forum. This isn't the place for it anyway. Go bump the MOS forum. SeaTerror (talk) 17:04, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just saying you can't use profanity like that, duh. 21:44, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't use any profanity. Even if I did we don't have any rules against swearing. SeaTerror (talk) 03:35, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

But we do have rules against being uncivil. 03:43, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

"Ass", "crap", you tell me those aren't profanities. 15:53, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

I already told you they aren't. Crap especially isn't. Anyway, like I already said, this isn't the place for this discussion. SeaTerror (talk) 16:41, May 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * SeaTerror was right here, I'm speaking as a old time editor and one of the founders here when I say that SeaTerror, despite the issues some have with him, in this case was justified. The manga takes present ovver ther databooks, we have his name spelled out as "Dr.Blackbeard".


 * Whiether or not thats a nickname, its none the wiser, his Databook name in the chain of data comes second. ST supplied the editors here with the wikia rank of order of data. In short, it matters not what the databooks say, you have a Disambiguation opage so this matters not if it clashes with the actual Blackbeards name. When it comes to that, "Blackbeard" is just a nickname for Teach anyway. :-/ One-Winged Hawk (talk) 21:36, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Black Beard is in the manga. Use it. 12:54, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

The manga never gave him a japanese name (kanji/kana); the databook did. The databook presented Kurotsuru expressly as his name, the manga left it open as to whether it was a nickname. There are no problems with considering Dr. Black Beard to be an alias, especially given that for the majority of characters whose name was first given as ????beard, that name was later revealed to be an alias. 13:09, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't matter what the databook says. The name was flat out spelled in English in the manga. Plus the nickname argument is incredibly stupid. You don't put Dr. before a nickname unless you're a rapper. SeaTerror (talk) 16:04, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

I agree completely with Zodiaque. I do not find his argument to be "incredibly stupid". 05:25, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

Except Zodiaque is completely wrong since we go by manga first. SeaTerror (talk) 05:56, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

Manga comes first only when it provides information. In this case, the doctor's name was not given in Japanese in the manga, but it was given in the databook. Manga can't come first if it didn't provide the information. 06:07, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

The name is flatout romanized on his coat. That is the ultimate piece of information you're going to get. SeaTerror (talk) 06:13, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, basically what ST said.

We should poll this once and for all though. 17:29, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Can someone add an image of the raw Blue Deep page where his name is written out in Japanese so we can get someone to look at it before we start a poll? 06:29, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Why did this have to get dredged up after eight months of no problem goodness? I get the feeling more than anything the name was put on his coat so as to get the point across that Ace thought this dude was the real Blackbeard and was meant as a joke more than anything. 07:04, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Galaxy. We still haven't come up with a suitable decision after all this time, despite the long(ish) discussion and the source guidelines which should have given us an agreement. But hasn't. Polling might be the easiest way to sort this out after all. 07:43, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter at all what the databook says since we have rules for romanization. Manga has always come first. SeaTerror (talk) 15:07, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

I think this is a clear cut issue but since no consensus was reached after all this time the only solution that everything points to is a poll. MasterDeva (talk) 11:11, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

I see a clear majority. 11:37, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

People have not stopped arguing though... MasterDeva (talk) 12:10, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

There is no clear majority and you can't ignore the sourcing rules anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 15:18, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Poll Discussion
Here's the poll then. 3 day test period? 16:00, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Poll length too short. Also you still need the databook page to be posted though it doesn't matter since manga takes priority. SeaTerror (talk) 16:56, January 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * There aren't any scans, so this will have to do. Middle row on the right (ignore the bubble from the video creator). Name's the same as in the jname parameter. If it's too blurry for you ask Klobis, he should have the book. And learn to read others' posts and stop repeating the same thing like a broken record, it's not constructive. 04:15, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Poll doesn't need to be longer than a week, so the length is fine. Everything else is fine too. 03:52, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what the comments say. We have rules for a reason. Something flat out spelled out in English takes precedence over something that was spelled in the databook. That is THIS WIKIA's sourcing rules. The rules flat out say to ignore the databook when Oda HIMSELF spells a name different. SeaTerror (talk) 04:37, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Post Poll Discussion
alright the poll is closed and the outcome is that the character is named "Kurotsuru". is it safe to say that this discussion is over and should remain that way so we can forget about this and move on?-- 23:55, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

To those butthurting, it's never over. But we move on anyway. 00:06, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

No crying over spilt milk, DP. It's in the wiki rules. Majority opinion makes right here. I'm not going to bother arguing. 00:19, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Who said I was crying? Any why would I be butthurt if what I voted for won? 00:36, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

You said "to those butthurting". Since I voted for the option that lost, I assumed that included me by defualt. 00:38, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, my bad. I thought you were telling me not to cry over spilt milk. My mistake. 00:43, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

He was talking about the rules stating that we use manga first DP. SeaTerror (talk) 03:43, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

And that is crying over spilt milk, ST. Thank you for demonstrating what not to do. 13:18, February 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ultimate facepalm* I was pointing out what you were talking about. SeaTerror (talk) 15:12, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Personality
Can someone unlock this for a second or two so I can add a personality section? If not, can someone who has rights to edit it add a personality section? Montblanc Noland (talk) 16:11, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, write the text you want, and I can copy it there for you. 04:45, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Hello everybody. About the discussion on the name, there is a chance that both are "correct". If a databook says Kurotsuru and the manga says Black Beard (please notice it's made by two distinct words), well the solution is easy. His name is Kurotsuru, as Oda said, but his nickname is Black Beard. We already call him Kurotsuru: in the end, I'm only suggesting to add in the box the line "nickname = Black Beard". --Meganoide (talk) 15:35, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * He has a black beard, so maybe it's really a nickname.
 * It wouldn't be strange if a man writes his nickname on his clothes. Well, it's strange to write on clothes, but at least it would be a logic thing to write. It would be the same if Kureha write "doctorine" on his medical clothes. That's not her name but a lot of people call her doctorine.

Oh, you already examinated that possibility. I'm sorry. --Meganoide (talk) 15:37, February 5, 2014 (UTC)