Talk:Paradise

Do you really think that "Paradise" is the name of the first half of the Grand Line? I think that your opinion come form the sentence "all men of honor who step foot in the New World say this, about... : "that ocean was paradise"". Well, that is a joke, a gag, I don't know the real name. I mean, when Luffy and Buggy went from Impel Down level 1 to level 2, they could have said "that level was paradise" but this doesn't mean that "paradise" is level 1's name! If you are right, then that name would be known also in "paradise" itself. Instead, that is only thought by people who are now in the New World. However we can mantain this name until the real name is presented. --Meganoide 10:47, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * In agreement. One-Winged Hawk 11:03, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree too. YazzyDream 14:57, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, that's what the pirates call it. It's a lot better sounding than "First half of the Grand Line". Yatanogarasu 16:01, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is just like an epithet of a character. Ruxax 16:31, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, it's the only official name we got so far, so let's keep it. A lot better than an unofficial name. Yatanogarasu 16:50, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * In fact, all info at this page is already contained in Grand Line page, so I see no need for this page. And for places in the first half of Grand Line reference that they "are in the Grand Line" is much more common then references like "they are in the Paradise". Ruxax 16:57, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Paradise is the official name. Therefore, what is the different between the New World article and this? New World also is an epithet for the second half of the Grand Line, why no one complained about this? Merge both articles or leave as it is. Tipota 12:08, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Tipota, either Grand Line shall have 2 sections, Paradise and New world with their location list or we keep the 2 pages. If we keep the 2 pages the § Grand_Line#Places_in_the_Grand_Line shall be deleted as it is completely redundant with the other pages content. Kdom 12:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have to agree with reasons for keeping the page. Its all we have to go on.Mugiwara Franky 12:39, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then I'd prefer them to be 2 sections of Grand Line page. Ruxax 14:49, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ruxax. And "paradise" isn't an epithet like "New World." It's just a phrase. I think it Grandline should either have two sections, or this page should be renamed to "First Half" or something. But "paradise" isn't a name of any kind. YazzyDream 16:54, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, if they call it "Paradise", then that should be the name. I mean, you wouldn't call Brownbeard (an epithet) "Unnamed Pirate of Foodvalten" or Big Mom (epithet) "4th Yonkou". Yatanogarasu 17:00, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * But that's what I'm saying. They don't mean they actually call it "paradise." What they mean is, the New World is so terrible, in comparison the first half is paradise. It's not an actual name. --YazzyDream 17:06, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you saying this is just like Marutabune, Blackbeard Pirates' raft? Yatanogarasu 17:07, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Brownbeard and Big Mom are nicknames, not just epithets. Paradise is, as I understand, more like "Cat Burglar" for Nami, or maybe even less, than Brownbeard for that pirate.
 * 2) The only thing you can say specifically about Paradise is that "Paradise is what most pirates call the first half of the Grand Line, when comparing with the ... second half, the New World." All other things are what can be said about Grand Line generally. And I don't see need for a separate page only for this one sentence.
 * 3) Another difference from Brownbeard, New World and so on, is that everybody who refers to New World calls it New World, but when somebody refers to the first part of Grand Line, it usually doesn't use any special name for it; in fact, "Paradise" was not used throughout most part of Luffy's voyage through Grand Line.
 * Ruxax 17:48, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

From chapter 594 page 13: Pirate talking to Kid:..... Let us return to "Paradise" alive!!! (生きて “楽園” へ帰らせてくれ！！！) For me this is enough to keep the page with this name and it is better than an unofficial name.

@Ruxax:It does not matter how many people call it with this name if this is the only official name then why not using it. Most of the people referred to Edward Newgate as "Whitebeard". Should we rename his article?--Tipota 18:13, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You see, there are quotation marks around Paradise. That means that it is not an official name like East Blue or Grand Line. Well, if to keep this page then, yes, we don't have a better alternative. But what info are you going to put on it except what is already contained on Grand Line page? I just don't see need for a separate page for Paradise. Ruxax 18:29, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * "New World" also is always inside quotation marks.--Tipota 18:37, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, that's most likely an expression used by expert pirates who stepped in the New World to descrive the old, easier part of the Grand Line. In fact, according to many others, especially in the first part of the series, this "Paradise" was considered an "Hell". However I think that this nickname might be used for the page regarding the first part of the Grand Line, as is interesting and particular, and so far, it's the only expression we have to speak directly about it ;) Aldarinor 18:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Arg, you know what? I concede. I don't agree, but I'll concede until the foreseeable future. Maybe we'll get a proper name in the future, maybe not. If in the future other pirates simply refer to the first half as "the first half of the Grandline" then I believe we should definitely refer to it as such. On the other hand if other pirates in the future refer to the first half as "paradise" again, I'll agree that's the correct terminology. --YazzyDream 19:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with YazzyDream. But we should control how the (eventually said) word Paradise will be intended. If there is a sort of nostalgy, then it will not be valid. --Meganoide 19:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand, the New World and Paradise thing I think is somewhat similar to the case of America and rest of the world. Before America was discovered, from Europe to Asia, it was just called the world. When America was discovered it was called the New World and the rest of the world was called the Old World especially by those who went to America ahead. Point is the 1st part of the real world was relatively unnamed until a 2nd part was discovered. I'm not sure if this is clear.

There is also the case what's going to happen in New World. From what we've seen from the Supernovas, the New World is filled with stuff that are not normally found in the 1st half. Such stuff technically requires a separate page as it might be too much for a generalized section. With that in mind, a page for Paradise is also required.Mugiwara Franky 02:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)