Forum:Multiple Characters Articles

Since the situation with Abdullah and Jeet, I think we should talk this through and decide how to deal with multiple character articles.

In my opinion, characters who are introduced together and have very little change since they operate together and fall together, with an official team name, like Funk Brothers, Yeti Cool Brothers, Hyena Three, and so on, should be named by their team names. With no team names whatsoever, like Sodom and Gomorrah, Abdullah and Jeet, and Bushon and Stevie, should be split. I mean, look at Bushon and Stevie, they appear at different tracks and times, and they have no interactions with each other, so separate, they don't have enough to keep them in one article.

Also, for Mozu and Kiwi, I think we should change their article name to Square Sisters, consistent with Yeti Cool Brothers and such. 19:09, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion Starts Here
I agree this should be the rule. Merge the articles that are part of a team, separate the articles that have "and" in their title. 19:16, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yup, and like you said, we'd be merging Aunt with her children if we did so for multiple characters articles. No matter how little difference there are, multiple characters without a proper team name should stay as two or more articles. 19:18, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

That's a good way to deal with those articles, I agree with you. Also, I think in the event the characters would have different categories, then they should still be separated. Honestly, I wouldn't mind separating them all.

(Edit conflict) But even so, what defines a "team" enough to merge them? I mean, some teammates are individualistic enough to maintain their status as one page for each person, like Carue and the Super Spot-Billed Duck Squad. 19:20, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, its unorganized if we put on some multiple character articles both of their names and on some others the group name. In my opinion we should always put the group name. 19:22, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, Square Sisters sounds better, for consistency sakes. Now for another matter: Poppy and Pansy. We still don't know who is who, just a vague idea on seiyu. How to deal with these two? 19:24, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's also the Decalvan Bros, The Riscky Bros and of course we can't split articles like Danny, Denny and Donny. Nevermind, never knew thet have a team name. 19:28, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think that if two or more characters belong to a team but defer from each other we should have separate articles but also create an article for the team itself. Eg create a page about Sham and one about Bachi but also create an article about their team the Nyaban Bros. But this should be done only if there is much information about the characters. 19:26, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I agree that characters introduced together as part of a named group should be together, but it should also apply to characters introduced together with close enough parallel histories regardless of whether or not they have a team name so long as the history section doesn't become jumbled. Sodom and Gommorah might have slightly different histories, but they are still a pair and the histories don't differ enough that it would be confusing. Same with Abdullah and Jeet if not more so. They were introduced together and so far have had the exact same histories. Sff9 mentioned on the Abdullah and Jeet talk page to look at these on a case by case basis, which I think is what we should do here. 19:27, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

And what about the Square Sisters? Should we change Mozu and Kiwi into their team name? 19:32, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Square Sisters sounds horrible and they were only called that once. Most common name is the one that needs to be used. SeaTerror (talk) 19:34, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Do we even know if that was the official team name for them, as you put it? It could have just been some kind of colloquialism used to refer to them as a pair. I think they were called the Square Sisters as much as they were called simply Mozu and Kiwi. 19:35, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Then we can say the same for "Nyaban Brothers". 19:38, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Split them 19:40, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Square Sisters? 19:42, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

They shouldn't be split. Their histories are too similar. 19:45, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

If you don't rename them to Square Sisters then split them 19:46, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

That's hardly a team name. It was used maybe twice just to refer to them as a collective, not as anything with any type of renown. 19:49, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Renown or not, it's the best we got. 19:54, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

But still, it was used at most twice, both times informally. 19:56, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Then Mihawk's "Strongest Slash in the World" under Yoru's attack list, is also as such. That aside, we definitely should split Bushon and Stevie at least. 20:04, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, they at the very least need to be split. 20:06, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, no more arguments for Bushon and Stevie? Then we can split, no need for polls. And now, for others... Square Sisters, and the rest of the team names and other characters. How to deal with them all? 20:13, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Like Sff9 said earlier elsewhere, on a case by case basis. I recommend setting up some sub-discussions on here with size 3 heading to keep things organized and in check. 20:17, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, what should the three headings be? 20:18, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Whatever has merging/splitting potential, so the Square Sisters and the Nyaban Brothers. 20:22, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. But shouldn't we set up some guidelines on what qualifies a split/merge first? 20:23, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Why are Bushon and Stevie unmerged. . They appeared together the whole time. 20:34, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think there can be a specific rule. 20:35, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

@Galaxy9000, really? I thought they were separate the whole time... 20:36, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Nope.. They're basically best friends in both the anime and manga. 20:38, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I thought they were introduced separately, and then had a different station, but were rescued one by one and barely made screen-time together. I did ask and no one objected. 20:39, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think if a pair of characters' articles are pretty much the same, and they are "together" in nearly every situation, a multi-article is fine. Other characters would be something like George Black and Roche Tomson. They never "appeared" together, but their articles are more-or-less the same and they are only mentioned together. 20:41, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would have objected, but I was at school while the discussion was happening. 20:41, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

We should unmerge the Yeti cool brothers, their history is different. 20:45, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

we should also keep Abdullah and Jeet merged, at least for now, cause they have been introduced together and are always seen together 20:47, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Problem is the infobox images, like the Mizuta Twins and Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee. They have separate images each, unless we can find a one-pic with both characters at the same time (and NO collages). 20:49, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, what about the Groggy Monsters?

Also, I'll look for pictures, but I know the Mizuta twins are impossible to find together. 20:50, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

wait how do the histories of the yeti cool brothers differ? 20:51, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

With the Groggy Monsters, Hamburg's the only one featured outside the Groggy Ring, so he's the only one whose individual page is a must-have. I don't care whether you keep Big Pan & Pickles separate or merge them on a Groggy Monsters page.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 20:58, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Thing is, if we don't include Hamburg, there isn't a point in doing it. The Groggy Monsters don't even have their own page at this moment, they're just merged with the Foxy Pirates. With the differing histories that come from the filler episodes, it's probably best not to merge them. 21:00, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Point. Plus they each have quite a list of individual attacks so it'd be a bit hectic to put their Abilities & Powers section togehter.
 * 海賊☠姫 (talk) 21:03, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Just like the Monster Trio of the Straw Hats, right? 21:06, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Groggy Monsters and Monster Trio are fine as they are. We need to keep Big Pan and Pickles separate for the sake of categorizing because they're different species. We don't have to fret about every single named group we come across, especially informally named ones like the Groggy Monsters and even moreso the Monster Trio. 22:47, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Now, then. How about other characters like Abdullah and Jeet, Nyaban Brothers, Square Sisters, and Poppy and Pansy? How should we set up the standards on how each of these are to be split/merged? 01:46, May 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Same histories.
 * No major ability and power differences.
 * Always appear together.
 * Can be merged in a way where categorization isn't messed up (Races, etc)

This seems to be the best criteria to use for these.

(By the way, can you remerge Bushon and Stevie?) 01:49, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

At least we should merge Bushon and Stevie. They are always together. --Klobis (talk) 02:20, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

I thought those two were introduced at separate situations. 03:20, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

The panel I linked above is their introduction. 03:27, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in that case, okay. 04:06, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Then we should merge Bobby (Movie) and Pogo. 18:15, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Question: why do you want to merge so many articles? If there is no "group name" which can legitimate a merging, we should avoid that. Copy&paste works just fine. I personally don't like merged characters article, first because how the infobox looks like and also because if I open a link about Mozu I want to read about her and not about Kiwi.

Can't disagree much there, but we do have problems with Poppy and Pansy: who is who? How to split that one? 20:41, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

In cases like Poppy and Pansy, we have to leave them merged. Levi, that's kind of silly, since it specifies in the article which character is being talked about. It's a waste of space to have two different articles that say the exact same things. 20:43, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Actually I support unmerging articles like those too and merge articles only when the characters' names are unknown like the Decalvan Brothers or in cases like the Hyena Three. 20:47, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

And what about Crescent-Moon Galley? Its practically two different people of completely different times, we can separate it into two pages. 23:53, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree about Galley. It's of two different continuities, but they share the same aspects in pretty much every other way. The page servers a great purpose by including them both, while also talking about their connections to each other and the series. 00:00, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Seems like we're going a little merge crazy here. Let's focus on the ones that prompted this forum in the first place, unless you want me to argue that just about every Kuja save for a select few could/should be merged? Didn't think so. Anyway, Poppy and Pansy we leave as is because we'd look silly if we split them with no idea who was which. We should keep Bobby and Pogo as they are because merging them is only a slippery, annoying, and hopelessly repetitive slope to Dorry and Brogy. As for Mozu and Kiwi, we'd be just as correct calling them the Square Sisters as we would be leaving them as is, so the path of least resistance would be not to touch them. On to Sham and Buchi, we should merge those for the reasons mentioned above. So, ultimately, the only ones we should do anything with are the Nyaban Brothers. 01:59, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

I like that so far. However, what about Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee, and let's say characters whose infobox images cannot be placed into one image (no collages, please). You know what, I will list out the ones who have no team names (and a briefing on each one) and we can decide how to deal with them: These are all articles without a probable team name, and I know some have already been discussed about remaining merged for their respective reasons, but still... just to list them out so we can see which ones we're dealing with and how to deal with them. 04:10, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Abdullah and Jeet (decided to merge)
 * Bushon and Stevie (still questionable as their history does diverge a little)
 * Chip and Dip (I guess that's fine)
 * Gyoro, Nin, and Bao (I guess that's fine)
 * Heppoko, Peppoko, and Poppoko (anime gives them separate intros)
 * Hotori and Kotori (brings in Satori, the third of the three bros)
 * Koze and Packy (I guess that's fine)
 * Michael and Hoichael (I guess that's fine)
 * Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee (no proper infobox image for both of them to appear together, sans collages, and different genders)
 * Poppy and Pansy (I guess that's fine, not knowing who is who, though anime credits can help)
 * Sodom and Gomorrah (history does divulge a little)
 * Splash and Splatter (I guess that's fine)

Yeah, Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee are different genders, so we really should split. We may have some clue based on anime credits for Poppy and Pansy, we did for Kibin, right? And then for the Nyaban Brothers, they do divulge in history a little, like Sodom and Gomorrah. As for Galley, we could just use brackets for separating them, like Hack (Human) and Hack (Fishman), etc. (just a suggestion for Galley). 04:15, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

By the way, don't the Nyaban Brothers also have different attacks? 17:01, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Hotori and Kotori are twins and were introduced way after Satori. as for Poppy and Pansy, former attempts to discern them have exhausted just about every bit of evidence either way. But if you think you have something go ahead. Last I remember they didn't have any voice credits. The three pokos should stay as they are. They may have been introduced at different times, but they share the same small window in which they appeared. I guess I could see splitting the Dees, but that's about it. 17:14, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

We should split Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee because they have different categories, and I think we should not merge the Nyaban Brothers because their history and powers are different, idk wtf we're gonna do with Galley and we should split characters like Shodom and Gomorrah since their histories differ. 17:22, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

As I said elsewhere, the "team name" criterion is rather sloppy. Let's just decide this on a case-by-case basis. When the characters are introduced together, have always been featured together, and have mostly identical articles, merge them. If not, don't merge them. And I strongly disagree with using the team name as the article title. The article about Mozu and Kiwi is the article about Mozu and the article about Kiwi, which happen to be the same article. The rule is to use real names as titles, not epithets or invented names.

At the very least, the first thing is to split Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee, right? 00:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

There is no need to have two pages for that short article. --Klobis (talk) 08:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

The categories differ. 08:55, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it trivial? They are those who appeared only in one page. Creating two pages for them is inconvenient to readers. --Klobis (talk) 09:29, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

No matter how short will the articles be, we should separate articles that gave different categories. 10:02, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. They're still merged. 07:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

What about Baskerville? That's technically 3 separate people and is a group article. At the very least, the individual portraits/images should be there in a gallery or something. And should it be renamed? 21:04, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
Since the talk seems inconclusive and halted, let's just go to the polls to resolve the entire thing once and for all.

''This poll will decide how we deal with multiple characters articles. To vote you must have 300 edits and be a registered user for at least 3 months. The poll is now closed. We well split saga names based on circumstance. The poll ended on June 6 at 12:00 UTC.''

Keep them as they all are

 * 23:11, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 04:56, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 04:56, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Split only the circumstantial

 * 1)  16:00, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  16:04, May 28, 2013 (UTC) I would vote for option 1 but we can't split articles like the Hiena Three
 * 16:08, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 17:26, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 22:57, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:22, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:25, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13:42, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14:22, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1)  (not sure what this option is supposed to mean. I vote for deciding this on a case-by-case basis.)
 * 2)  17:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  19:22, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4:33, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Post-Poll Discussion
Alright, now we can decide: What is circumstantial that we split or merge? 18:11, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'm bumping this. Mummy me and Daddy Dee still share the same page. Somebody must unmerge them. 14:55, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Those two only appeared together, so they will not be unmerged. 20:44, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

They must be unmerged since the categories are not the same. 20:59, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee should be split. Now, seeing the Funk Brothers were forced to split due to one possessing a Devil Fruit and one does not (as far as we know), who else should we split? Mizuta Twins, since no screenshot of them together is available. 01:51, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing that separates the Mizuta Twins that warrant individual pages. They have almost identical histories in terms of length and events, and apart from having two separate paragraphs in the appearance section are the same in the other sections as well. 02:07, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Their infobox image is not right, manga and anime, there is no image that shows both brothers in the same screenshot. 02:36, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Unmerge articles that don't have the suitable infoboxes. 02:41, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

We could use a switch template instead, like we use for pre and post timeskip infoboxes. 06:06, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

I felt the need for a bump, since Mummy Mee and Daddy Dee are still one page as well as all other Multiple Character articles except for Galley and Gally. On the Mizuta Twins, they have slight differences in their personality, abilities and powers, and history sections. The older one also has trivia while the other doesn't. Since they have an insufficient infobox as well, I agree that a split is in order. Montblanc Noland (talk) 11:22, August 20, 2013 (UTC)