Talk:Devil Fruit

Wikipedia's table
I'll get the information, pictures and tables here... Not next weekend, but the weekend after. One-Winged Hawk 10:58, 17 October 2006 (PDT)

More than a list
I don't have the time right now, or I'd do it, but someone needs to make this more than a list. We should have a description of what each type of fruit is, then a list of Devil Fruits known to be in that category, and their users. Currently we just have a basic list with links to a page for info about the specific fruit. Perhaps these should lead to their users, since there isn't more specific information about a fruit other than what it does. Cody2526 01:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We're gonna use the table that One-Winged Hawk made for Wikipedia, she said right above you that she's gonna do that. ^^;; That has descriptions of each type of fruit, pics of each power being used, description of the powers themselves, what the names mean, all that stuff. --Murasaki 01:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I was going to do that, but right now I'm lost... Whats going on with this page. :o One-Winged Hawk 08:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

From Mi to Fruit
Having to read that every fruit's name has Mi in the end and I find it morbid. Should I move all the names from Mi to Fruit? Having "Gomu Gomu Fruit" is better then "Gomu Gomu no Mi" in my opinion. Any objection?

Joekido


 * If you change it from no Mi to Fruit, you might as well call the Gomu Gomu no Mi the 'Rubber Rubber' Fruit... Or 'Gum Gum Fruit'. The reason being is it doesn't look right translating just half the name. I think the Japanese name should remain, besides it gets complicated if translate them. One-Winged Hawk 08:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The half translations maybe a bit confusing but at least they kinda sound right in an English environment. It's just one Japanese word repeated twice that needs to be explained, besides some of them are somewhat legit. Kilo Kilo Fruit and this Mini Mini Fruit(?) I read in the Arlong Park Encyclopedia and they're actually more of full translations than a half ones. Also the Hana Hana Fruit is actually used in English *cough*4kids*cough*.


 * They may not be politically correct and such but at least the reader could tell what is being talked about. I mean would a general reader who doesn't know Japanese or isn't a One Piece fan know what is being talked about. Can they easily tell if the Hito Hito no Mi is a fruit or something completely farfetched like a magic potion just by looking at the name? This is a thing we have to take into consideration.Mugiwara Franky 13:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In the case of DFs, they just sound so much better in Japanese. Even half translated, a lot of them sound damn awful. My view is, if you explain it well enough on the page what it is they should know its the Gum gum fruit or Hana Hana Fruit. Equally, though it should be easy to to likewise tell Gum Gum Fruit means Gomu Gomu no Mi. We're aiming to provide information right? If we only do half the job (my view on most half translated stuff) we don't fully achieve that. Besides... Thats why we have the search thingy and redirects. So yeah... Not translated or full translated, in between just doesn't sound right. One-Winged Hawk 14:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But wouldn't it be better to quickly learn that there is a thing called the Hana Hana Fruit which is a fruit whose name is Hana Hana in one go than to read a lot of text explaining what Hana Hana no Mi. Some of the half translations maybe awful but they kinda get the point right away. Plus when you look at it flows really well with the rest of a sentence. However if this really can't be, would it be alright to make all the links to these pages except those in the Devil Fruit page be like this:


 * Half Japanese Mugiwara Franky 14:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * If there is just one word being translated - you get no confusions. If there is not just one word - you get confusions. I'm talking about experience here as a anime fan, not a One Piece fan. I'm not saying there is confusion all the time, its just its harder to explain half translations to some. Its not just Japanese to English, but languages overall.


 * Plus saying "fruit" implies it comes from the dub or the Viz translation... Half of the names (Like Bara Bara no Mi) have different names. Which is where the confusion will most likely come from I think. Anyway that my opinions spent... We need the voice of others on this matter. If I say anymore until then I'll end up in an argument with you MF, that I don't want. One-Winged Hawk 15:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Example
I read some Devil fruit profile and I must say it does not look good so I again went to Arlongpark.net to show an example how each Devil Fruit profile should be:

Arlongpark.net Sube Sube devil fruit profile

Sube Sube no Mi (スベスベの実)

The Smooth Fruit's Eater

Being the first villain introduced to not die in the first chapter, Alvida holds a place in our hearts eternal as a fat, ugly old crone. She's ruthless, brutal, and cold. It's just that after she eats the Sube Sube Fruit, she seems to have found herself a little off her rocker for whatever reason. In battle Alvida wields her Iron Club to this very day.

The Smooth Fruit's Characteristics

Class: Paramecia (Superhuman) Eater: Alvida the Club (Former Captain, Alvida Pirates)

Powers Introduced: Chapter 98 General Descriptor: Makes the body smooth and untouchable Viz Name: Slip Slip

The Sube Sube Fruit is an interesting one. While it doesn't offer any advantages offensively, defensively its powers have yet to be classified entirely. Does the slipping effect make battering attacks useless? What about slicing and piercing weapons, like swords and lances -- do they just slide off, too? That would make Alvida almost as overpowered as a Logia, so I doubt that's entirely true. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Interesting to say, Alvida slimmed up after eating this fruit, and her freckles disappeared (among other cosmetic improvements). Whether that's a trait of the fruit we don't really know. Okay, back to basics: The Sube Sube effect deflects any attempt to mark the skin of the user. Logia abilities like smoke are still effective, and Seastone is also a weakness.

Also of note is that this was the third Devil's Fruit introduced to us in the series.

Attack Notes:

Sube Sube Spur

Alvida, using the Zero Friction trait of the Sube Sube Fruit, slips from her shoes and slides down a ramp to quickly escape from an area. Useful for quick movement.

Now it don't have to follow the same so that profile may set an good example on how to work on each Devil Fruit profile.

My idea is:

Devil Fruit Name: Japanese Text: Romanized Viz translation: Fruit's Class: Eater: Powers: Chapter Introduced: Description: Attacks:

What do you think?

Joekido

Two Bites From One Fruit?
What if two or more people took a bite each from one fruit, would they all get the power? I know that there can only be one devil fruit at a time but has Oda actually said that there can only be one person with the power? what are your thoughts - Nabeel Shaath

Consistency
I've noticed that there's tons of switching with the grammar. One sentence it's "Zoan" the next it's "Zoans". Same for Logia/Logias and Paramecia/Paramecias. We need to keep it consistent. Both are referring to the same thing. I'm pretty sure it's more grammatically correct to not has the s at the end. Cody2526 05:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well heres a start... The plurals are in English "Zoan Types", "Logia Types" and "Paramecia Types". So it would be "Zoan types of Devil Fruit..." One-Winged Hawk 08:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Grammatically speaking, we don't need the S at the end and can simply put Zoan to describe "Zoan types of Devil Fruits" simply because...our language works like that. On top of probably being grammatically correct to not have the S, the Japanese do not use plurals. Sound it out, compare my last change of the page to the version before it. Without the S, it sounds better. It's not really a good argument, something sounding better, and it doesn't prove how grammatically correct it is, but it certainly rolls off the tongue better. Cody2526 11:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Japanese vs English. The same problem can be said with the word Katana... Which I've tried to avoid calling "Katanas". But its so tempting to write that in plural. XD


 * I do say one thing, Zoan sounds generally better then Zoans. I guess you are correct. You could considering it on similar note to Sheep, which the plural is not Sheeps, its Sheep. Which is regarding my last post, you say "a flock of Sheep" just as "Zoan Types" etc... Yeah excuse my waffling... I just did a bunch of mass merging on wikipedia. And now my brain is tired. And all because of pressure to get off my lazy butt and do stuff. XD One-Winged Hawk 19:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Perona's Paramecia
It's revealed in the latest chapter of One Piece (number 261) that Perona's ability to create and control her ghosts comes from eating the Ghost Ghost Fruit. Unfortunately, since I don't know the Japanese word for "ghost" I can't name it to put up information about it. Could somebody help me out here?
 * I don't know the language, but I've heard enough to pick it out from a English/Japanese dictionary. In Romanji the Japanese word for ghost should be yūrei. And using Wikipedia's interlanguage links, 亡霊 should be it in Kanji. ~Dantman -local (talk) Jul 1, 2007 @ 23:47 (UTC)
 * I see "horo horo" everywhere I look. Isn't that her laugh as well? :/ One-Winged Hawk 07:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Attacks
On almost every Devil Fruit page, there is a list of attacks. I propose we organize the attacks like this (used Ace's Mera Mera no Mi attack list as an example):

This format will not only give the reader an image of the attack, but it will also better organize the articles (especially the ones with many attacks).

What do you think? Any comments or suggestions?


 * Sounds good to me... If anyone is willing to take time to put it in. One-Winged Hawk 21:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I can do it. Are there are any information fields I should add or remove for the attacks?


 * Edit: Oops, forgot to sign my comment. Sorry. --Superneoking 20:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah! You'll have to bring this to MF's attention on that detail. Its not my area. Leave a note on MF's asking for some aid pointing to this talk page. MF's pretty much got thing ticking on the attacks page. ^-^' One-Winged Hawk 22:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The idea sounds great however I'm not sure if it would work on some pages. Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi page for instance would have an image overload and may not work for some servers. It's a good idea, I just don't know how it'll look or work on some pages.Mugiwara Franky 02:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll agree with that much... The same would be for Usopp's page. Looking at this table we have here though MF, for the Logia's at least, whose power is either in the form of an attack list or powers description, I see it working. One-Winged Hawk 10:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I made an example for the Gomu Gomu no Mi fruit attacks here. It is incredibly long. I separated the tables so that the Gear 2 attacks, for example, wouldn't be separated from the its entry. --Superneoking 19:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The example looks good but it is indeed incredibly long and it seems that it might take too much space if combined with the rest of the other info. It's good I can say but something still seems a bit ifty if used for an article. Some tablization is good but I don't know...


 * By the way, can some tablization be done here on this page. It seems very ignored in a way what with unconfirmed and wrong English Dub names.Mugiwara Franky 03:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Shifting through SBSs
Where I'm up to. Still got a long way to go. But on this page is a table of confirmed DFs. I'd like to get those mentioned on there referenced. If anyone wants to help, thats where I'm up to. If not, I'm out for the day (or maybe not depending) and will do it when I get home. One-Winged Hawk 10:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Origin
I heard that Oda got the idea of Devil Fruit(people with superpowers who are unable to swim) from historical records - during the Age of Sail many sailors considered knowing how to swim to be cowardice, because if you did you were expecting to fall overboard. Kinda like how the Big Three refused to put seat belts in cars until the seventies because they thought it would make people believe cars were unsafe. Any way to work that into the article?Kalaong 06:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Unconfirmed. Unless you have that confirmed, its pretty just speculation. Never heard of the sea swimming thing, the car manufactorers, yeah that I vaguely remember. I think they onky became standard because of laws on health and safety nd what not, because cars got faster and faster. One-Winged Hawk 11:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Found it. "What the sea wants, the sea will have." Until recently, most sailors refused to learn to swim.Kalaong 03:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I think I read that the whole devil fruit idea came to Oda from coconuts: sailors found them floating on the sea before the islands where they grew were discovered, so nobody understood where they came from... and so, the legend that there was a giant upside down tree under the sea that generated them was born. -Malthus-


 * I've thought this idea for a while. Its not just coconuts that do this trick but other plants as well (forget which ones, just woke so my minds not awake). Unfortuntely, we know not enough about the Devil Fruits in the first place to put this statement. Do they get found floating in the ocean? Who knows. It may be a while before we find out. :-( --One-Winged Hawk 06:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

That is no confirmation of anything. Drunk Samurai 04:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

No two Devil Fruits
So when they say there are no more than one type of Devil Fruit power exist at the same time, does that mean when the owner of a certain power dies, that power would be reborn? For example, if (and only if) Ace is executed, does that mean there will be a new Mera Mera no Mi growing out there somewhere? Yatanogarasu 3:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes - exactly it seems. We're due a DF explaination according to Oda when Vegabunk appears so until then we're sitting in the dark. One-Winged Hawk 12:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think Oda-san should say that, i mean, it's fruit. Fruit grows on trees,usually in large amounts, but in this case only one at a time. Even so, it'd be kinda dumb for an awesome power like the gum-gum or flare-flare( mera mera for the japanese minded) to just get to be used once and then it's gone forever. I think devil fruits have been causing crazy stories and adventures in the one piece universe for a long time. and that's backed up by a lot characters knowing what certain fruits look like and do before anybody else( shanks and crew flipping out when luffy ate the gum gum fruit for instance). So, I'm fairly certain Oda-san will say that. The real questions should be, where do these fruits grow? is it all in one place or all over the place? And, if it is in one place, then what's that place like? cause it's the home of all the devil fruits. 205.188.116.138 07:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)CashSeville
 * Well, according to Oda, Vegapunk will eventually make an official appearance and explain what Devil Fruits are. Until then, it's all a mystery and up for speculation.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 08:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Many Devil fruits look somewhat like normal fruits (bananas, pineapples etc), only with different colours and typical pattern on its surface, so perhaps they grow on normal trees? When a devil fruit user dies, the fruit probably regrows at a random tree (Ushi ushi no mi regrows at a random bananatree). This would explain their design. 80.226.224.113 16:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * In an early version of the Romance Dawn (not sure which of the two versions) it is said that the Gomu Gomu no Mi grows on a special tree once every hundred years or so. For the present storyline, where Devil Fruits come from is currently a real mystery. They could come from random trees like your theory or they could come from special trees like Oda's early version. They could also probably come from a completely different source. There's just too much unknown about them at the moment.Mugiwara Franky 17:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

numbers
Hey!!! Oda said that there are 100 devil fruits right. As for the official number right now there is 50 canon devil fruits shown 11 are filler and 15 are unnamed and a total of 76/100 are shown, should we consider this as a trivia.

Rainelz 9:56 pm july 23,2009


 * No, he said "more than 100", not 100 exactly. Yatanogarasu 22:03, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

But how about the numbers is this not qualified


 * What numbers are you talking about? Do you mean there are 76 Devil Fruits so far? Yatanogarasu 01:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually it would be 77 this week adding the gura gura no mi of whitebeard(eartquake man). But we should add this as a trivia that there is 77 devil fruits introduced so far 62 named (with 51 cannon and 11 filler)and 15 unnamed devil fruits.

just a quick recap of numbers as of august 4 2009 there are 79 fruits.62 were named(with 51 cannon and 11 filler) and 17 unnamed with jozu's diamond power and marco's blue flame power!!!


 * Please sign with ~ and no talk from any spoiler thread until proper chapter is out. There's actually more than just Jozu and Marco.Mugiwara Franky 06:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Filler devil fruits do not count. Drunk Samurai 11:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * They do, please don't ignore the anime . --New Babylon 17:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Aye, one or two Oda approved/created himself anyway. One-Winged Hawk 18:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Not really. They are not canon. Only the manga devil fruits count if you're going by numbers. Drunk Samurai 18:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oda said that filler counts as he approved it so we could count it with 81 fruits.62 were named(with 51 cannon and 11 filler) and 19 unnamed.

Oda has never said that. That is a flat out lie. Drunk Samurai 05:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oda said it in the SBS okay find it there.Rainelz 05:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Sure he did. Besides canon only counts. Canon only comes from an original source. Drunk Samurai 05:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * In Vol. 4 Chapter 150 SBS, Oda states that there are more than a 100 Devil Fruits. This doesn't necessarily mean that the maximum number is 100 but it means that the maximum number is somewhere near 100. However considering how old this response was when Oda answered this question, he probably thought of more Devil Fruits.


 * In Vol. 37 Chapter 348, Oda states that when the anime writers make their own Devil Fruit powers, they always come to him in order to ask if they can use the power or not. If he says yes, they can use it in the anime. If he says no, its because he has plans to use it for a character that will create later.


 * While most of the Devil Fruits in the anime are non canon and not of Oda's design, there have been some that definitely come from Oda. One example is Don Achino who Oda designed. The way the Don creatively used his powers show signs that Oda definitely designed the fruit, what with all the techniques that say he was designed by a Dragonball fanboy.


 * If going by manga only standards, only the ones shown in the manga and created in the SBS count. As a whole set however, the non-canon Devil Fruits also count.Mugiwara Franky 07:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly it then. Just because he approved their use does not make them canon. Also are you sure about the SBS ones? I know there were at least 2 but they were jokes. Like the makes you stink so bad everybody avoids you one. Or something like that. Also ones that Oda said he created himself count since he IS the original source. Drunk Samurai 08:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

super strength and speed
I've got a quetion. Now, lots of characters have super human powers. (usually strength and speed) and lots of fruits seems to make you crazy strong, but, what would a person who's eaten a devil fruit that bestows one of those powers be capable of? Now, I know some fruits give super speed, but really, it's only a side effect. those fruits are devoted to something else and then super speed is gravy. what i'm talking about is a fruit devoted to just pure speed( or strength). Devoted to making a person the fastest thing alive or the strongest. What crazy lengths could those powers be taken to? 205.188.116.138 08:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)CashSeville
 * This isn't a forum. The talk pages aren't for discussing about the subject, but to discuss how the article should be handled(such as confirming the facts on it).
 * Kaizoku-Hime 08:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction?
Didn't Oda say that there is only one type of devil fruit in the world? If so then shouldn't we add a fact that Marco's devil fruit contradicts this since Ace's devil fruit was already fire? Drunk Samurai 02:51, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oda probably meant 1 type of Devil Fruit with an exact, specific ability. Marco's may be fire-based, but not fire itself like Ace's. If you look closely at Marco's silhouette, you'll notice he has wing-like structures on his back (his arms are shielding his face), which appear in front of him in the next image. So it could be a phoenix/fire-bird Zoan type. We've only seen a glimpse of his power, so let's not say anything until we see more of it and he or someone else who knows about his ability clarifies what it is.
 * Kaizoku-Hime
 * yeah, I kinda see it. also remember they said something about blue flames--Kingluffy1 03:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * hey, hold up. i distinctly remember ace pointing out that his power wasn't 'fire' but in fact it was 'heat', so marco's power could still be fire. Geomexis 07:01, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's been revealed that Marco ate the Phoenix Devil Fruit.Mugiwara Franky 11:11, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Ace pointing out that his power wasn't fire" is from the 4Kids dub. If it really was just heat, it would be more like the non-canonical Atsu Atsu no Mi.
 * Kaizoku-Hime 21:30, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Moved Unknowns
I've moved all the Devil Fruits without a name off the type pages. This was getting confusing so they've all been grouped together here whether they be zoan, Parmecia or Logia until we get more info. The Para/Log types in particular require certain information for some we simply don't have. One-Winged Hawk 17:11, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good move especially considering guys like Marco.Mugiwara Franky 18:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

pictures
could anyone geta picture of the hebi hebi fruits in the anime there actually out now.Rainelz 05:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Marco's Power
Marco's powers got to do with the Phoenix. So I reckon hes probably one of the 5 Flying Zoans.

is this a devil fruit?
is this a devil fruits

is this a devil fruit?
is this a devil fruits


 * Looks like a candidate for the Poke Poke no Mi, however it's unclear without a few more scenes.Mugiwara Franky 08:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Question for Drunk Samurai
Hey, why did you remove the info on Donquixote Doflamingo? Rainbowman 28 August 2009 (UTC)

It isn't confirmed to be a devil fruit so it is speculation to put it as one. Drunk Samurai 08:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The section lists unnamed Devil Fruits and powers that people may think originate from a Devil Fruit power. Its not a conclusive list that lists Devil Fruits.Mugiwara Franky 08:55, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

A QUESTION FOR EVERYONE
What are the origins of the names paramecia, zoan and logia? --Kaze Kaze No Mi 20:16, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Though not stated, there is a bit of speculation of varying degrees and observation as to where the names originate from. Paramecia appears to be based on Paramecia, single celled creatures. It's a bit iffy why they're called that. Zoan appears to be based on Zoanthropy, a state of becoming an animal. This is rather clear due to the powers. Logia appears to be based on godly scriptures. Slightly less iffy than Paramecia since Logia powers are almost god-like.Mugiwara Franky 00:57, September 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * The name paramecia comes from paramecium, a unicellular being(like you said)and my guess about the origins of paramecia is beacause I think that the paramecias can "manipulate" their own body like a paramecia devil fruit user.For example, Buggy with his devil fruit ability, he can seperate himself like a paramecia, the same goes for luffy, like his devil fruit ability, he can stretch himself. So I think that isnt so much iffy, but that doesnt mean it isnt iffy.--Kaze Kaze No Mi 18:27, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Unknown/Unnamed Devil Fruits
We really should put all of these unnamed Devil Fruits into their own pages, even if they don't have a name yet. Such as "Marco's Devil Fruit" or "Eustass Kid's Devil Fruit". That way, we can expand their explanation in detail, rather than taking up space in other pages. And if the names do come up, we can simply move the pages. Yatanogarasu 12:35, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

No objections
Since no one is answering this question for over a month, I am going to take your silence as an "okay" and just going to go ahead and make all these pages. Here is a list:
 * Eustass Kid's Devil Fruit
 * Trafalgar Law's Devil Fruit
 * Jewelry Bonney's Devil Fruit
 * Capone Bege's Devil Fruit
 * Basil Hawkins' Devil Fruit
 * Scratchmen Apoo's Devil Fruit
 * X. Drake's Devil Fruit
 * Minotaurus' Devil Fruit
 * Minokoala's Devil Fruit
 * Minozebra's Devil Fruit
 * Minorhinoceros' Devil Fruit
 * Lafitte's Devil Fruit
 * Onigumo's Devil Fruit
 * Jozu's Devil Fruit
 * Marco's Devil Fruit
 * Akainu's Devil Fruit
 * Tsuru's Devil Fruit

Please do not delete them, as I did spent much time making them. If you must, please at least state the reason and report it to my page. Also, if possible, please just keep these pages up until the official name comes out, then simply use the Move function to redirect the page to its proper name. Yatanogarasu 17:35, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Drunk Samurai can't just delete all of my hard work. After all, there are other unnamed pages such as Whitebeard's Bisento and Shanks' old ship. They all are significant pages that we need. Yatanogarasu 20:12, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

They shouldn't exist in the first place. They pages should only exist when the Devil Fruits are named. Drunk Samurai 04:18, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * This discussion apparently went off everyone's radar for more important things. For pages for the unnamed Devil Fruits, Blackbeard's Fruit actually started like this. The difference however is that we kinda sort of knew that its name would be revealed in the next chapter. For these guys, it may take awhile for their names' to be revealed.Mugiwara Franky 04:36, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

None of the pages are needed. They should only be created when their names are revealed. Drunk Samurai 04:50, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * True to a point, but instant aggressive blanking is not the way.Mugiwara Franky 04:53, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

They shouldn't have been created in the first place so the blanking was needed. Drunk Samurai 05:00, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yatanogarasu was trying to properly talk with you but you just left one message that could easily be missed and continued blanking, completely ignoring the problem being created.Mugiwara Franky 05:06, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yet you have no problem with "Since no one is answering this question for over a month, I am going to take your silence as an "okay". That was a completely idiotic thing to do. Just because people didn't reply doesn't mean they actually agreed. Not to mention most probably missed it like I did. Drunk Samurai 05:19, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I do have a problem but you didn't as so much as say you missed it as well in a civil manner. You just left a single message that's basically an insult, and aggressively blanked stuff.Mugiwara Franky 05:22, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I also missed this discussion. Had I known about it; no would have been my answer. We've got enough pages like this as it is. Unamed Marines.... "Shanks' sword". All these reserved pages are starting to get out of hand. What happens when it gets named? Editing, lots of editing; templates... Pages... Etc, etc. Also we don't know for sure 100% if its a DF ior not for instance shall we say? Then creating a page for it is saying we think it has a DF page. I don't really like Bilkan, but theres no other name supplied and you even pulled the page up as speculative as it is, we know anyone with that style of wing comes from Bilka though. I'm going to side with DS on his view at least. One-Winged Hawk 09:39, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

How the hell is my message an insult? Drunk Samurai 05:24, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * It can easily be mistaken for an insult when everything else that came out before is an insult. Say enough insults and all that people will hear from you is nothing but insults.Mugiwara Franky 05:41, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

What is this "everything else" you speak of? Drunk Samurai 06:03, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think MF is remembering your recent "idiot" name calling on Users to be Banned page. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 20:28, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm kinda thinking of all the uncalled for insults DS made in the past. The picture that was painted by him kinda makes it hard to tell if he's being civil or being uncivil. In other words, I have a very hard time differentiating whether what he writes to other editors is an insult or not.


 * For the Unnamed Devil Fruits, there indeed isn't really exactly a need for now them to have pages. While some unnamed articles maybe acceptable since they're significant enough to warrant a page, some however don't really provide anything else than what can be easily be found in another page. The unnamed Devil Fruits kinda fall under the later. Without a name or even some proper explanation, they're kinda no different than the descriptions in the character pages under abilities.


 * If some of them get at least named in the upcoming SBS, they could have pages. Other than that none of them really need pages.Mugiwara Franky 12:04, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Then can you just redirect them all instead of deleting them? Like "Akainu's Devil Fruit to " REDIRECT Akainu "? That way, when the names do come out, we have a template to start the pages. We can also use the " " to block out what I wrote, rather than deleting them. That way, when the names come out, it saves a lot of writing. Yatanogarasu 16:30, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

More advanced Devil Fruit List
Given a fact in mind, this is the way how I view a Technique list.

Unknown/Unnamed
People keep putting Urouge's muscle-expansion as a potential Devil Fruit, but also a possibility as a form of Life Return, yet they absolutely refused to put Doflamingo's puppet and cutting invisible strings as a possibility. From the way I see it, these two "users" seem to be in a similar situation, as their powers are possible to be Devil Fruit or not, unlike some easily confirm-able ones, such as Akainu or Kid. So either put both of them on the possible list or neither of them. Yatanogarasu 23:05, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Here are some other possibilities: Yatanogarasu 23:17, October 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * The unnamed vice admiral with the dalmatian, what if it's just an animal with enough human intelligence to become a marine? Like Pappug, the Manticores, and the Sphinx, all of whom can speak despite being animals.


 * For Doflamingo, I believe DS is the one that's been taking Doflamingo out constantly. For Urouge, the reason people put him there is because even though it maybe a technique like Life Return, his technique somewhat looks different from Kamadori's. For the dalmatian, he looks like a typical Zoan user due to the human mouth and beard.Mugiwara Franky 06:32, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * So all in all, should Doflamingo and Urouge be on the list? Yatanogarasu 10:29, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

2 Devil Fruits?
No, Drake says "Replicate" Light admirals DF in other words its not like they own the DF, so therefore Kuma doesn't have two DFs, he has one and a power simulair to it. One-Winged Hawk 08:38, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Flying fruits
Pell introduces his DF, but never expands on it. Again, we can't say anything more then to repeat what he said. Expanding on it without that will be just speculation. If its souly referring to Zoans; birds, bat, insect, myth, ancient could be what his referring to for ll we know. See? We don't know enough to guess what he is on about at this stage. One-Winged Hawk 12:47, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * A Baroque Agent actually said it and he said that Pell possessed one of the five Devil Fruits that allows one to fly. The problem however indeed is whether it meant one of five Zoan Devil Fruits or one of five Devil Fruits in all categories. As for certain revealed Devil Fruits that aren't Zoans, its kinda a bit clear that they're not flying. Buggy's floating pieces is not true flight as he requires a foothold. The Logia users, while they can float in the air while in their elemental forms, its not exactly true flight as its more like jumping really high.Mugiwara Franky 14:21, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Exactly my point, we're missing so much information here! I'd rather wait for further information from the series and Oda then to start speculating. One-Winged Hawk 10:43, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Mud Fruit?
Who put up the mud power on the unknown ability section? Saying that it was eaten by a whitebeard captain is total speculation. We don't know who that is. It is also unclear as to what type it is. We don't know if it's a controlled doll or someone who transformed into some type of golem. I'm not going to take it down, I'm just making it more neutral until more is revealed.--DancePowderer 00:26, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Linkie please as this one has totally slipped by me. One-Winged Hawk 08:30, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Large Mountain-like guy fighting alongside a female pirate. Apart from looking like Monster Chopper in shape, its abit unclear if its a Devil Fruit user or a weird looking giant.Mugiwara Franky 10:45, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you MF, things like that are easily missed. One-Winged Hawk 12:03, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

How do we know that it allows the user to manipulate mud? What if it is a power that allows the user to transform into a monster like creature (similar to Basil Hawkins straw powers) or create servants or soldiers or something? Yatanogarasu 19:50, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, how could you tell it's mud? It could be slime, or clay, or something. Yatanogarasu 20:44, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is indeed a big question mark. Apart from making people go "WTF is that", it's kinda more of an anomaly than the commander that can pull out a huge hammer from his throat.Mugiwara Franky 06:33, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

New theory, should we just remove this speculated power away, similar to Doflamingo and Urouge, until we have prove? I mean, for all we know, it could be a guy with some horribly mismatched body, or some kind of animal. Anything is possible. Yatanogarasu 21:48, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

5 Flying Types
Is it specifically five flying types, as in model or fruit themselves. The manga as far as I can tell says only "types". Well.. Thats a bit open ended since there are possibly 5 flying groups here; Bird, Bat, Bug, Mythical, Prehistoric. If its five DFs, then that means we've seen 2 or 3 (if Laffitte's is part of this too) already. That means Oda's cut down the array of animals he can have greatly in one full swoop... Not Oda-like to restrict himself THIS much. I guess we should start with Stephen's translation and work from there. ^_- One-Winged Hawk 19:22, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that what Pell said means that there are five DF's that grant their users the ability to fly. So far we know of four, eaten by Pell, Marco, Lafitte, and Shiki...so bird, bird, bird, and Shiki's isn't a Zoan at all. Who knows what the fifth one will turn out to be x_o As expected of Oda. Raikia 10:06, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Levitantion tradionatially isn't considered a form of flying, but floating at the most, its "spiritual/mental elevantion" (the latter word I've properly mispelt) so I discount it. One-Winged Hawk 11:45, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Gallery for Attacks
Here's a new way to list all the pictures for the attacks of a Devil Fruit. Here's an example for the Yami Yami no Mi:  File:Blackbeard.wmv.GIF|Black Hole File:Liberation.wmv.GIF|Liberation File:Kurozu.jpeg|Kurouzu  We could put this gallery under the "Usage" section. We could also do this for other things such as the Santōryū. Yatanogarasu 20:57, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Having a gallery of attacks would be tolerable for some pages but others would be a problem. The ones that kinda would suffer would be the pages with hundreds of attacks.Mugiwara Franky 07:34, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * May I point out the MAJOR problem with attacks; how to sum it up in one frame. You've got animations in your gallery there Yatan and I'd not want to see a page of moving images with attacks on them. Because some moves can't be summed up in one go, their complex and thats the major reason we've avoided a wall of pictures in the pages. Someone HAS made a table of moves for Ace if you read around, it was rejected for that reason. Its the same with bounties, I don't want to see a page of images of bounties. Also, animations as pretty as there are slow up loading times and loading a page with a dozen on can often look far too busy to be practical.


 * I'm annoyed recently as I did put a gallery on the Jolly Roger's page but I noticed my examples have been added to since. The few were there as demos. The same was meant to be applied to that page. Difference is though, yeah, there are new styles coming on right now so I'm letting the flags slip in. One-Winged Hawk 09:30, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

No Mi or Fruit - not both
Please can we not do things like "Gomu Gomu fruit" its either the "Gum Gum Fruit" or "Gomu Gomu no Mi" not a mix of both. Its been a while since I stressed that half translations are not acceptable and its only caught my attention. So now I've got to go round every page and remove "XXXX XXXX fruit". Please can we not do this again, there is simply no need for it. One-Winged Hawk 23:12, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Newest Zoan
I think it is pretty safe to say that this fruit is a Zoan. Unless anyone has any objections, I'm going to put it on the unnamed list. --DancePowderer 22:23, December 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * The Chain Chomp is a bit of a question mark. It's kinda unclear if it's a weapon that turns into an animal or a weapon designed to have a mouth. The animal it supposedly turns to even is a bit unclear.Mugiwara Franky 01:31, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * The other question mark would be how a pirate got hold of it. Mr.4 might only had lasso because Crocodile could get hold of the resources while Spandam was director of CP9, working for the WG. One-Winged Hawk 09:31, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I'm positive it's supposed to be an animal of some kind. The two times it is shown it has a different face each time. And, as far as I can tell it only has spikes on top of its head. If it were modified from a normal flail it would have spikes all around it. Also, and this may or may not have anything to do with it, look at the coat of the Marine it bit, it has those odd ovular bite marks, which might be further indication of a devil fruit power. Also, it is still unknown how one obtains an object that "ate" a devil fruit. Crocodile didn't give Mr.4 his gun already enfused with the inu inu no mi, it was Mr.4's gun before that. So we still don't exactly know how devil fruit items are obtained.--DancePowderer 03:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing different seems to be that the mouth was opened in one scene and closed in another. The face hasn't exactly changed that drastically and it looks more like a mechanical feature than sentience like Arlong using his teeth in his hands. If the eyes had changed, it would be different matter.Mugiwara Franky 03:30, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * The ovular circles above and below the chain chomp appear to be Kizaru turning into light. The bite marks at the side are supposed to be visual aids that help show that it is clamping down like a bear trap.Mugiwara Franky 03:37, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure that it's Kizaru who's getting bitten there? It's hard to tell, but I don't think it is, and I don't remember those ovals appearing in other scenes where he turns into light. I could be wrong, though.--DancePowderer 04:23, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's Kizaru and if it isn't, the ovals appear to be coming from the Marine not from the Chain Chomp. The Marine looks like he's letting the Chain Chomp through like a Logia. A weapon like the Chain Chomp would cause most likely a wound that involves a huge chunk of flesh with blood everywhere.Mugiwara Franky 05:17, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Octopus?
Could whoever added the octopus zoan fruit to the unknown fruit section please provide a link? I've been looking and I can't find anyone with that power.DancePowderer 01:10, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Might be confusing an octopus and spider. Since they have 8 arms. One-Winged Hawk 01:19, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Should I just get rid of it for now?DancePowderer 01:32, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Based on the text, it is referring to the pirate with six arms here. This is kinda of question though due to certain factors.


 * We don't know if there are any Zoan Devil Fruits that turn people into water dwelling animals.
 * The guy looks more like a Fishman rather than a Devil Fruit user.


 * On a related note, there's also a walrus pirate there. However it's also unclear if he's a Zoan Devil Fruit user or a Walrus Fishman. There's also the possibility that he's just one of those unique looking humans Oda makes.Mugiwara Franky 06:58, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd rather go with sitting this one out. The person who added it removed the spider zoan reference though for this possible one. Hence my previous comment. That shouldn't happen, if its still on the page, its needs to be put back on. One-Winged Hawk 09:22, January 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually the guy who added it apparently took out the possible mountain golem based on the history. For the Octopus guy, whatever he is, he appears to be more octopus-like especially considering in the previous page we see Onigumo with spider-like arms.Mugiwara Franky 13:04, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I just hope to god a data book comes out soon that clears up all the devil fruits used in Marineford (and everywhere else too while I'm at it). There are about eleven unnamed fruits in the Marineford arc alone, not to mention the ones used in Sabaody and Impel Down. I've definitely had the most trouble determining whether or not some power stems from a devil fruit in this arc compared to any other.DancePowderer 03:32, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

it is just an octupus fishman he couldn't be a devil fruit because it would be an octupus without water.Rainelz 07:10, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

My theory about Ace
Topic moved to forums: Here One-Winged Hawk 17:08, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Seriosly Walrus devil fruit
first if all walrus were marine animals and the devil fruit users cant swim this will only show the walrus fruit very weak... and also it could only be a fishman or something...121.54.92.35 05:14, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Votes

 * Against:Mugiwara Franky 02:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree: But I'd like to see the draft first since this has become quite a big thing. One-Winged Hawk 02:36, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Against: See below.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 09:57, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree: see my arguments below. El Chupacabra 18:43, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion
In the discussion on Forum:Index/Site Problems I mentioned my intention to merge the articles on the devil fruit types into this article as sections. It became the point of a vivid discussion, that is very important, but not really related to the discussion i intended there. Therefore I want to continue it here.

Many arguments for and against this were already given there, so i recomend you to throw a look to that page.

In order to give you an imprssion on how this article would look like after the merger, I've created a "preview" in the Sandbox. Of course it's a bit raw, but if my request will be succesfull I would improve it. Nevertheless it gives you an impression on the size and the structure of the article after the merger. El Chupacabra 17:50, March 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am generally against this merger due to many reasons:


 * Firstly, it came about as part of a plan on a completely separate matter instead of being started here.
 * The merger seems more like something that would be proposed on Wikipedia by deletionists or mergists.
 * The merger doesn't seem to being taking into account that Devil Fruits and their types are a major part of the One Piece mythos.
 * The merger was proposed due to various merger proposals made on other articles such as Sword Grades which are separate matters to this one.


 * Furthermore, while the preview is indeed raw and messy looking, it however requires alot of the information to be merged or rearranged in order to be cleaner and clearer. It could work if managed properly however that doesn't mean it can't work also in four different pages.Mugiwara Franky 02:58, March 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, that is not really a good idea. The Devil Fruit page itself has lots of development potential when Vegapunk will be plainly introduced and I can foresee that the Zoan devil fruit has also potential with the Awaken Zoan and the abilities that Marco and Lafitte have shown Kdom 11:46, March 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Against; the articles are in themselves are strong enough to support themselves at this point in time. This would have been ideal preposal back when we first started due to the LACK of information. At this point in time, we'd need to cut off the lists from the pages as I don't think they do anything to a merged page, that the template isn't already doing. There is no repeated information or not that much since we've uniqued them all at this point to suit themselves. One-Winged Hawk 15:03, March 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1)I didn't think that this would cause such a discussion. when it did, I moved it to here. 2)Sometimes it's better to separate pages but sometimes it is useful to have larger articles. 3)I think that the types of the devil fruis is a more important part of the mythos then the types alone. It would be therefore useful to have a combined article. Besides, some other popular aspects like the various attacks don't have own articles. Further, the vartious Zoan subtypes (Awaken Zoan, Mythical Zoan etc.) don't have own articles. It's a bit incostinent to have separate articles for the types but no articles for the subtypes. 4)i didn't propose it because of these mergers. i just used them in my argumetation for the merger here. 5) Mugiwara Franky, does your line "It could work if managed properly" mean that you would agree to a merger if I improve this preview? 6)it can help editing the topic. It's easier to edit one large article then 4 smaller. Besides, you said that it won't help, but do you see any real problems that the merger would cause? The size isn't a problem, it would be around 50 000 bytes. Even if it will double it's size with the progression of the story, it would still stay behind pages like Mythbusters or Monkey D. Luffy. El Chupacabra 18:08, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mythbusters and Monkey D. Luffy are not good examples of what I would call good pages (80% of the Mythbusters I have never heard about or have been Mythbusters during one week and I'm not sure it was a good idea to have Luffy history section but now it is to late). So it is not a good idea to use them as arguments. Also I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "I think that the types of the devil fruis is a more important part of the mythos then the types alone". And can you remind us what are the for and against arguments here, I do not want to reread all the category discussion to find them and that is probably even more the case for readers who did not participate to that topic (or is it that you do not want to duplicate them as well :-)), well sorry I couldn't resist it.
 * Kdom 19:40, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mythbusters cannot be seperated without becoming incomplete, the articles it would form are not strong enough to sustain themselves on their own and Luffy's page breaking up would seem silly as breaking up a single page about one character isn't done elsewhere. On the other hand, the Lolas were once together on one page and ended up seperated for being a strong enough on their own and were two seperate characters. In contrast, bounty hunters, punishments and so forth got merged to create one strong article since there were many weak articles.


 * Strength or weakness varies on the chance of merging and seperating. The Devil Fruits pages covers them in general, but the Logia and so forth concern themselves with the uniqueness about each fruit type. While they could be stronger together, I didn't JUST merge the articles merged into Justice, I had to tweak Justice first and then decide what was and was not going to go on its page to create a solid article. If you do merge the fruits, you'll be faced with a simulair problem, while you think the merge will go smoothly just by copy + paste, its not, and there are some elements that need snipping. Think about how you'll structure the article before you add. One-Winged Hawk 20:04, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

In bringing up a merging in any separate discussion, it always does bring up a discussion on whether there should be a merge or not. You cannot just say in one discussion that you want these deleted, you want these merged, you want these arranged this way, you want these name changed, or anything like that in one go. They are completely different matters.

In regards to separate pages and the more usefulness of larger articles, it depends on the topic at hand and the site they are in. The topic is about Devil Fruits and their types. In wikipedia, the topic is a part of a Japanese franchise and is not that important enough to even warrant it's own article in some of the eyes there. In a wikia about One Piece, it is a major topic as alot of the stuff in the story revolves around Devil Fruits.

In regarding articles, it depends on the degree of separation. The attacks and the various Zoan subtypes don't get their own pages as they don't have that much degree. The individual Devil Fruit types themselves have such a degree. By my quote: "It could work if managed properly however that doesn't mean it can't work also in four different pages", I mean that it could work but like Angel is pointing out, you have to tweak some stuff in order to make it work. That usually means throwing out what would be necessary for a separate page. Simple copy and pasting when combining articles is never simple.

For editing one page over four pages, it is indeed easier. However, the advantage of four different pages is that each can develop more than they could in one single page. If placed together, content is often forced to fit together with the whole of the page and sometimes there can be no room for expansion.

When article size comes into topic, it's best to avoid saying just because this other article is this size, we can merge these two articles. Article size can really be a problem in some places.

Interesting fact about the Lolas, guess who separated them? Seen here. Mugiwara Franky 01:37, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course Mythbusters and Monkey D. Luffy are not good pages. I took them as examples of large pages, as a conter-argument for the ones who say that the merged article would be too big. It should show that the size is sholdn't be a matter in this discussion.


 * As it was requested above to repeat my arguments for merger, I will explain them. One reason the weakness of the Devil Fruit article. The Devil Fruits phenomenon is a core aspect of the One Piece world. One Piece without devil fruits would'nt be the same. Therefore it is neccessary to have an excellent article on the devil fruits. However, this article is far from this. For example it lacks a full list of fruits. If we'll keep the articles separated, then the list will either remain spread on 4 pages or large parts will be doubled. The three types are not a stand-alone feature but an aspect of the devil fruits phenomenon, like the fruits as object or the effects of consumption. Therefore it's appropriate to have them merged into the article. In structure, it's similar to the sword classes (they were merged into the article on swords) or absolute justice and moral justice as variations of the more general concept of Justice. I think that only a Devil Fruit article that includes a full information on the three types could be a very good article. When I tal about the importance of the three types, i don't mean that they are unimportant, but that the general topic Devil Fruits is more important. I think that it would be better for people who look for information on the Devil Fruits if they could find everything on a single page. And, as I said and Mugiwara Franky agreed, editing would be easier as well. I also don't think that there "will be no room for expansion" in a merged article. At least i don't see any point that can be included only into a separate aticle on a devil fruit type but can't be explained in the merged article. If anybody think that there are some, please give some precise examples. I think that it's possible to include every piece of information form the three articles into this article, so that nothing will be lost. Otherise I would't call for a merger.


 * Of coures I know that the merger won't be just copy+paste. I already said that the preview in the sandbox is only a raw sketch and that I would improve it significantly if you'll agree on the merger.


 * Last but not least, the separation of the Lolas and the risky brothers proves that I'm not "deletionist or mergist". As I said, for some entries it's better to have separated articles but otheres benefit from a merger. In case of Lola a split was neccesary, but the Devil Fruit article is a completely different matter. El Chupacabra 15:31, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agreed that editing would be somewhat easier but just because the idea is there doesn't mean that it would work especially when considering what has to be done to fit the info into the page. For every piece of information to fit into the page requires alot of organizing and planning. And even when doing so, you are going to have to sacrifice some areas.


 * The raw as you put it, feels like a mess and has several problems. The most prevalent of the problems is that you have to rearrange some parts so that they won't look like a copy and paste. Some parts look like they should be merged this way and some other parts look they have to be taken out due to seeming repetitions.


 * Also while the different types of Devil Fruits don't affect One Piece as opposed to a one general Devil Fruit article, each type however has more than given enough information to warrant their own separate pages.


 * For info that could be lost or not expanded upon, there's the Zoan sub types. Their inclusion in the single page would most likely require them to be slimmed down a bit. Then there's Vegapunk. When the guy finally appears and gives a proper explanation. There's gonna be a dozy. There will be how Devil Fruits grow. There will be how items can eat Devil Fruits. There would probably be explanations on Paramecia and Logia types. There will be alot of things that would explode like wildfire.


 * For the Lola and Risky Bros. split, though reasonable, it kinda shows somewhat of a sign. They maybe a different matter than the Devil Fruit pages in general but considering how alot of things are being dragged into this ever growing argument, it wouldn't be a surprise if they were taken into account as well by some people. I mean this merger was indeed created in the middle of another argument as part of the proposals there.Mugiwara Franky 16:23, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I want to have it known I don't disagree completely with a merger, the one thing I disagree on is just that simple "copy + paste" routine hence why I orginally protested on the idea. If its done with some thought put into it, why not? For me I'd rather have a wikia with 500 solid articles then 5,000 weak ones. However, take note of what I've said, for starters, the lists would have to go at the very least (we have a template anyway), svae the "unknown" fruits. If you can resubmit another preposal, thats better chances are I will agree on, but your submitted idea so far I don't like. One-Winged Hawk 16:46, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, as I said, I know that it will require some work and I'm ready to do this. I already have many ideas what can be done. I'm sure that I will not "sacrifice" anything, unless you consider the removal of repeated inforamiton a sacrifice. I don't intend to slim down the zoan sub types. If we'll learn more about them, these sections would be expanded. As to Vegapunk and his research, I already said that even if the article would triple it's size after this, it will not become larger then other articles. As to the list of fruits, I don't think that the template at the bottom is as good. the list is the only complate list of fruits with the names both in Japanese and in english. I would also add the names of the users. El Chupacabra 18:03, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's actually alot of work to be done for all of the information to be merged together properly. Combining everything from the four pages is impossible as sacrificing stuff cannot be avoided. Some stuff like the various lists presented in the raw as stated look like they would have to be sacrificed unless presented in a way so that they won't be just simple lists. Other stuff look like that they need to be slimmed down considerably for them to work in a single general page. For size and expansion, constantly saying that a certain page won't be as big or more difficult than a large one that is existing has it's limits. You can only go so far with just one single big page.Mugiwara Franky 01:18, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I look at Justice as one of the better examples of a tweaked page when merged. But we can always vote on this idea anyway since two folks have objected already. Note:I only object at a simple cut + paste and hoenstly, those lists look ugly together on the same page. They'd not be so bad in template form, but 120px by 120px or whatever size we're using is too small to show this properly. One-Winged Hawk 08:16, March 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mugiwara Franky, please explain me what you consider a "sacrifyce". As I said above, I have some ideas on how I would merge these pages and i'm sure that not a single piece of information will be lost. Of coures I will rewrite a lot and if something is repeated, I will keep it only one time, but for me it's not a sacrifyce.


 * One-Winged Hawk, I also wouldn't do simple cut + paste merger. I would rewrite many passages in order to make them look appropriate. The preview in the sandbox should just show the approximate size and the general structure of the merged article. It's not the disign that I would put on this page if you agree to the merger.


 * As to the list of fruits, I would improve it as well. I already have some ideas. However, if you have any proposal, ideas or whishes, express them here or just add them when I'll have my work done. El Chupacabra 17:57, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

By sacrifice I mean what generally would be lost in the process of merging. From the raw you provided, just by skimming over it I can see that there is gonna be lot of stuff that would be lost. Also considering it is a copy paste raw, I have no idea what your exact plans are and whether they are acceptable. You can say you yourself can rewrite and improve it all but from my experience, it really isn't that simple.Mugiwara Franky 02:15, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

El, you say that the Devil Fruit article could be better and I agree to the point that the article definitely needs work (if in nothing else, the language department). Yet I don't understand how you would solve any shortcomings of the article, in making it longer by merging it with the more specific Devil Fruit pages? If anything the merger makes the article more unwieldy to read than it needs to be. Long online pages in my experience are incredibly tedious to read (little phenomenon known as tl:dr) but I might still read the same amount of text a long page might have if it is split into several smaller pages. As such I'm not quite sure what you want to accomplish by making it all the same page? I remain unconvinced by the argument that it is easier to edit and police the article if it is all the same page, not because it is an invalid argument but because the pages are not there for our convenience.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 09:56, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know that merging pages is not simple, but it's not impossible either. I have some ideas how to do the merger, however it would be to difficult to explain them here in detail. However, some core point would include: regrouping the fruits list as in the preview, adding the users behind the fruits, rewriting some sections, so that things shouldn't be repated (that's all that will be "lost"), moving as many aspects form the trivia section into other sections as possible, improving language and style where neccessary. I think that editing a single page is easier then editing many pages because things can be done in a single edit. However it also helps the readers. For example if somebody wants to compare the sternghts and weeknesses of the three types, he now needs to constantly switch between 3 page. In a merged article he would only need to scroll upm and down. Another example: We currently have no place that shows the laist of fruits with users. The merged and improved article would include one. It will allow everybody to check who ate which fruit. El Chupacabra 18:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering they started out on the same page, I can confirm there is ntohing wrong except data and reference handling. Orginally they were seperated (I think by me...) because we needed some organisation at the time and it was difficult for the Logia, Zoan and Paramecia infos to grow on a page together. Seperation allowed for them to grow in information without restrictions. But now their at significant amount of info, it is no longer ness. for them to be on their own because they've done what I wanted them to do. However, I'm in no rush to see it happen, it can stay as it is or be merged back together again. Either way, so long as the data on the page is doing the job, its fine. One-Winged Hawk 18:31, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, according to page histories, you converted the pages from redirects on January 1, 2008. I don't know how it was back then, but I really seen no reson why any part of the merged article can't be expanded without restrictions. El Chupacabra 18:43, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well the info back then... Sometimes sepereating a page allows for the world of good, because you encourage editors to fluff up the data to build a significant page. But, as I've said, there is no longer a reason for them to be seperated, the data on each matter grew as pleased. It was actually a routine I was dong around about that time for a number of pages. Another page I did it for was Romance Dawn. In that case though, I don't see a remerger happening because their like a chapter of the manga, deserving of their own page. One-Winged Hawk 18:50, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

El, I do not doubt that it is possible to merge something, it is just the question of why it should be done in the first place? I don't see why the page needs a merger because all your improvements are entirely feasible without a merger. For example: the list, not a bad idea, but it does not require a merger for it to exist. Same thing for the language.

Can you elaborate what you mean with strengths and weaknesses of Devil Fruits? How many paragraphs is actually needed to state the general strengths and weaknesses and d oes it honestly require 4 pages to be merged into 1? I mean i could do it in just a few paragraphs:

Logia

Strength: Transforms user to an element; Allows attacks to pass through unharmed; Incredibly powerful

Weakness: Standard Devil Fruit Weakness; Attacks can get through the use of certain methods and weaknesses the elements: See specific details of individual fruits

Zoan

Strength: Allows user to transform to an animal; Optimal for martial artists

Weakness: Standard Devil Fruit Weakness

Paramecia Strength: Gives user Supernatural abilites; See specifc details in individual fruits; Incredibly varied

Weakness: Standard Devil Fruit Weakness; See specifc details in individual fruits

Going into anymore detail than this is to already go into the specifics of individual Devil Fruits (which all have their own pages).

And to still mention the length of the article I can't speak for other users of the net, but I find long pages to be incredibly annoying to go through. Compare a long page to a fold out in a book, which by all means looks large and fancy but has a tendency to screech everything to halt because you have to finagle with the page. And the computer screen does not even allow the strength of a fold out page of a complete overview of what it contains, as the screen only lets you view bits and pieces at a time. Now opening a different page on the net(which seems to have become a chore apparently?) is similiar to turning a page in a book and allows in many ways a better overview with a few shorter pages than one long page. Not to mention the internet browsers usually have tabs that allow you to have many pages on at once which is even more convenient than scrolling up and down (which in itself is irrelevant to our discussion as one can have the same page in multiple tabs). To sum it up, I can agree on some of your suggestions just not on the necessity of a merger.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 20:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

For what you have in mind in El, without abit more explanation and a proper preview, it can really bit difficult. Without them, it can't be exactly certain of what you have in plan. It maybe better or it maybe worse.

For the minor stuff such as spelling and style, they can be applied to the 4 pages and not just one. A list of Devil Fruit and it's user can also be easily incorporated in the main Devil Fruit page provided it is created properly.

For strengths and weaknesses, the description of the differences between the Devil Fruit types can be indeed a bit too small to a point when incorporated in a general setting. If comparison is what you are going for the three types in this area, sometimes that could mean either the lost of information or rewriting sections from scratch. For balancing things out for better comparison, you kinda have to think how things are gonna have to be arranged in order for there to be a proper comparison. The sections of the three Devil Fruit types, while they look like they can be easily incorporated into one page, some parts of them look like they can't be easily incorporated without rewriting.

For going up and down a page to compare differences, there can be a limit to how much that can work. If sections were small to medium sized, going up and down wouldn't be a problem. However if they are large, which seems to be somewhat the case with how the sections look like, going up and down can get a bit tiresome. In cases like that, sometimes three separate pages would be better as it wouldn't confuse people abit.

For the development of the pages themselves, they kinda did grow into their own pages. In fact, by the look of some things, they are somewhat still are growing. Some fine tuning in the pages themselves maybe needed rather than just a merger.Mugiwara Franky 02:06, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, as it was requested, I'll explain my design for he strengths and weaknesses sections. I want to keep them more or less similar to their curent appearance, however some points nned to be moved to other sections. For example, the fact that most logia users are affilated to one of the three great powers fits more into the "general information" section then into "strengths". I don't think that they are to detailed, because just saying that logia are increadibly powerful and zoan are optimal for martial artists is not enough. The reader won't know why it's like that. The sections as they are now are not very long. The entire section on the three types makes around 30% of the preview and will make a similar part of the "final" edit. So if somebody only wants to compare the strengths and weekaesses of the three types, he won't need to scroll up and down the entire page but only its middle part.


 * The problem with a proper preview is that I don't want to do alot of work for nothing. If you are against any merger in general, it would be just a waist of time to do this. However if you have some questions on certain aspects, ask them and I'll answer them. When you are concerned about the possibility that the article might become worse, you 're welkome to imporve the parts you won't like. I don't think that the article will stop growing after the merger. As of now, all important information on the devil fruits is included in the 4 articles, and when anything new will be revealed, we will add this. El Chupacabra 15:02, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * They are actually kinda very much detailed and kinda long from how they look now. Stuff like Zoan Devil Fruits are optimal for martial artists are kinda indeed their strengths. From what I'm getting from your description of how you're gonna handle things, the version of what you have in plan for the strength and weaknesses of each type is gonna be so merged and moved here and there that a proper comparison is somewhat eliminated.


 * For the preview, doing alot of work for nothing may indeed be something for some people and it could make things clearer for others. I mean one of the votes for the merger is only fully agreeing after a proper preview is shown and accessed. Besides it kinda shows if you are really up to the task for which you are proposing. Saying let's merge this, merging stuff, creating a merged page that is somewhat bad in others' eyes, and leaving the rest to others to work on, may not be very productive.


 * Also is it really that imperative that they should be merged when they are being useful as is while not cluttering that much in the main page.Mugiwara Franky 03:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would shorten them just a little bit. For example, the paramecia sections are good as they are now. The passage that most logia are associated with one great powers fits better into the general information section then into strengths. The list of all the users who can levitate can be easily replaced by "Numerous users" as they are mentioned by name in the refernces. However, refernces for Enel and Aokiji levitating are neccessary. However, these sections cant'be cut too much because otherwise things would be lost and remaining ones will become unexplaned.


 * As to the full preview, I would do one if you agree to the merger in case you'll like it. The problem is that in the voting above, we have a 2-2 tie, and you two oppose the merger in general. However, if you are against the merger anyway, a preview wouldn't help me to convince you. El Chupacabra 14:32, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * For stuff like Logia's being part of the most powerful or something, they can be easily moved to the main Devil Fruit page as general descriptions than just merging the whole page. As for others, they can be cleaned up in their respective pages.


 * For the preview, it would really help even if people are against the merging idea. It would really show that you are capable of doing it and not just saying it. Based on the raw and the few ideas you've been giving, you are painting a picture but it's really an incomplete one. Proof of concept can really say something.


 * For the votes and the discussion in it's entirety, I fear this gonna be another one of those long winded ones. While it's 2-2 tie, this really major discussion is gonna need alot of discussion input from the community as it's more than just simply merging a few pages as the merge is gonna require a major rework in other areas of the wikia.Mugiwara Franky 16:00, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

El, I have no idea what you have in mind when you intend to make a list containing all Devil Fruits and their users or even if it will be just plain text or something else, but I took the liberty to create a possibility of how such a list could look like:

The general idea is that it contains both name of the user and the power with a pic of that power in use.

As for the Preview I really have no opinions on it simply because I have no concept what it would look like or what you intented with it. I agree with Mugiwara Franky on this, you definitely need to prove your concept.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 22:30, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm an idiot for not realizing that the preview the two of you were talking about concerns your intentions to what you El, want with this article. I jumped to conclusions, thinking that you were speaking of something else. :X Shows what I know.--Uncanny Ultrabeast 23:14, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * If just parts of the type articles will be moved to the main devil fruit article, this will weaken them. Remember that one of your arguments against the merger is that they are "strong enough to support themselves". I have the impression that it's impossible to have both a good and strong devil fruit article and three strong type articles.


 * As to the preview, I already said that I would do a complete and preview if you would agree to the merger if you'll like it. However, I have the impression that you want to keep the pages separated and won't agree to merge them even if i'll do a preview.


 * What do you imply by saing that "the merge is gonna require a major rework in other areas of the wikia"? Most articles linking to Paramecia, Zoan and Logia are the articles on the respective fruits and their users. These entries would become redirects to the same-named sections of devil fruits.


 * As to my ideas on the list, my intention was originally to add the names of the users to the existing list, like this:


 * Gomu Gomu no Mi (English versions: Gum-Gum Fruit): Gives the user a body made of rubber. As a consequence gives near-immunity to blunt attacks and weaponry. Eaten by Monkey D. Luffy.
 * Bara Bara no Mi (English versions: Chop-Chop Fruit): Allows the user to split their body into separate parts. As a consequence gives them immunity to blades. Eaten by Edward Newgate.

...
 * Gura Gura no Mi: Allows user to cause shock waves by shattering the air, through which the user can create earthquakes and tsunamis. Eaten by Edward Newgate, powers later absorbed by Marshall D. Teach.


 * However, I like your idea of a gallery-like list. It includes images of the users in action, (what the current list doesn't) and this make the description a bit superfluous. The difficulty with this list is that some fruits, like the Gura Gura no Mi were used by two people and it might be a bit difficult to depict this. Additionally, your gallery lacks the english names, but this can be easilly improved. In general, I think that this gallery would be a very good feature of the merged article. El Chupacabra 15:32, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I opted out of tables and stuff for listing the devil fruits early on for various reasons. If your going to have a list, its best to have a word list and have done with it then a picture list in this case.  Its simulair to the bounty posters, as I've said here as well.  Plus fitting a GOOD demo of the Devil Fruit in a tiny 120 x 120 px image?   One-Winged Hawk 17:01, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Jozu's Devil Fruit.
I'd say it's pretty clear that it's a Paramecia. There's nothing to remotely suggest that he's a Logia.71.97.59.52 15:13, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Seems so, otherwise when he was frozen by Aokiji, he would have been able to regenerate his fallen arm and get back up unharmed quickly. Yatanogarasu 19:46, March 20, 2010 (UTC)