Talk:Chapter 12

Page numbers
There is an issue with the pages numbers. Bottom line: is the cover a color spread? If so, it counts as two pages.


 * Pro
 * Horizontal in many versions of the chapter on line.
 * Was featured in a color walk as such


 * Con
 * Vertical in Volume release.

Discuses. Rhavkin (talk) 05:08, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

If it's one page in volume release, then it only counts as one page. Otherwise, it may alter the total page number in the volume itself. 06:17, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

Volume > magazine. CW has nothing to do with it. --Klobis (talk) 06:30, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

It's not like there were strict rules back then. The page was vertical but the image is defiantly horizontal as the chapter name is also vertical. See here. Also, the volume release has a filler page after the second page, that is not part of the chapter in any mean, so I think we need to take the volume release from back then with a grain of salt. Rhavkin (talk) 14:43, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

One page Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:47, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

I checked some other cases. Chapter 945 cover is currently counted as two pages, but in the volume it's printed as one page. Chapter 817 on the other hand is printed on two pages in the volume, despite being a vertical image (page number also counts 2). I guess for consistency it's best to go with the volume count, in which case Chapter 945 page count should be altered as well. 18:02, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

If we go by the volume pages, then are choosing to ignore the filler page? Now days, there is a blank page after a color spread in the volume release, but if we say the volume page numbers are what's determinate the chapter pages, then those filler pages should count as well. We either go by the volume or not, we can't pick and choose.

Also, the fact that the title is vertical is another proof that the cover should be horizontal and that the volume release made a mistake. Rhavkin (talk) 18:58, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

That filler page took place after the third page, both in the link and the volume I have, I have to remind myself when counting pages to not include them which has led to trouble/confusion for me in the past. So far the only volumes we cover on this wikia are the tankōbons when there are other formats the series is in for instance what format is the Omnibus Edition? The reason I noticed this now was to help with my project.

Filler pages are not part of the chapter. In Shonen Jump there's a dozen filler pages between color spreads and the rest of the chapter. What matters is how many pages the chapter occupies. I get the point about "cover is horizontal", but like in the examples I listed, vertical images can also take either 1 or 2 pages. So the orientation of the cover isn't definitive for page count. 19:57, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

I'm asking about Japan's equivalent of the Omnibus Edition. Rgilbert27 (talk) 20:16, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the magazine fillers; In the volume, at the beginning of the chapter there is filler page with an image of Chouchou. If we say that the reason in favor of saying it is one page is how it presented in the volume, then the filler page should count as well, since that is how to volume presented that. Volume aside, the title on the cover that was made by Oda indicate to image should be horizontal. Rhavkin (talk) 20:39, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

And I'm saying that by that logic we would include the magazine fillers in the count if we go with the magazine presentation. Fillers do not count regardless. 22:06, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

The magazine filler are a bad example because by the magazines issues I've seen there are only fillers in the first series in the issue, and it is mostly advertisements. If we go by "that's how the volume present it" then the filler in the volume should be included. We either go by the volume or not, we can't pick and choose whatever is comfortable. The Color Walks are edited by Oda, and it shows the cover as a two pager.Rhavkin (talk) 22:17, February 4, 2020 (UTC)

Magazine or volume, filler is filler which is something to keep a lookout. Rgilbert27 (talk) 01:45, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

I did a test with volume 12, using chapter 100's color spread for reference. Chapter 100 begins on page 7 and chapter 101 begins on page 33, according to both the table of contents and my own counting to confirm. There is a single page of story beginning on the left hand side, followed by a color spread on two pages.Treating the left side of the color spread as page 9, I counted until I got to page 33. Page 33 is the cover story of chapter 101 and thus the first page of the chapter. The color spreads are only considered one page if they take up one page. Otherwise they are considered 2 pages. This would also mean the blank page must be included among the page count. 05:11, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

Blanks are part of the volume page numbering but not the individual chapter page count, like other extra material in the volume (e.g. SBS). Their purpose is to keep the pages aligned correctly (left page stays left, right stays right), because in the magazine the filler advertisements can cause the chapter to begin as either right or left page when there's a color spread. In any case, the chapter page count is only for the actual chapter content.

Anyway, can't this just be solved by including an asterisk or something next to the number that explains the different versions? 08:10, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

The spacing page are after a color spread, this page is after a content page. As for the asterisk idea, it doesn't solve the question whether we say the chapter is 20 or 21 pages long, nor the cover that if we decide it to not be a color spread but a color cover and vertical, need to be change to reflect that. Rhavkin (talk) 08:36, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

The first pages were originally color pages, so I think this is also a matter of spacing. I think something like this would be fine: 20 and then something in the cover page section. By the way, I checked the digital colored release and it's also on one page there. As for color spread/color cover, again we also have variance among vertical covers (Chapter 817/Chapter 945). Is one a color spread and the other a color cover? Or are they all color spreads if they were originally published in double-size. 09:11, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

The digitally colored is a version of the volume so it is not an additional point. I still feel that the point of the color walk and the vertical title are ignored and they are key deviance to Oda's intent, which should be the deciding point.

The matter of horizontal\vertical of those three should be discussed separately since one decision shouldn't affect the other.
 * Chapter 12 is a one page horizontal image, printed vertically, with the title vertical at the bottom center.
 * Chapter 817 is a two pager vertical image, printed horizontally, with the title horizontal on the next page, like most color spread in the magazine.
 * Chapter 945 is a one page vertical image, printed vertically, with the title horizontal at the top right, like most volume color spreads.

All three chapters are unique and don't follow all the standard color spread\colored cover layouts. All in all, they could also be non of the above. Rhavkin (talk) 12:22, February 5, 2020 (UTC)


 * And why should it be 21? Rhavkin (talk) 12:24, February 5, 2020 (UTC)

Full color
Now, while some chapters have Color Spreads or Color Covers fewer of said chapters have colored pages from a couple pages to over a dozen. I can't remember if there were others but compare to the chapters before and after this is fully colored. Does anyone else think so? Rgilbert27 (talk) 19:42, February 4, 2020 (UTC)