Talk:Zoan

Ancient Zoan
It was also implied that the Ancient Zoan users are physically stronger than normal Zoans;[9] the two known users have certainly shown size and destructive powers far more powerful than an average Zoan-class user"It was also implied that the Ancient Zoan users are physically stronger than normal Zoans;[9] the two known users have certainly shown size and destructive powers far more powerful than an average Zoan-class user"

I am uneasy with the above statement.

How exactly was it implied that Ancient Zoans are superior. How have the 2 known users shown SIze and destructive power "far more powerful" than average Zoan class usders. To explain more on the second one, we must not consider the power dispalyed by the Zoan user as the fruit alone. The feats that Drake and Jack pulled off, with their Zoan fruit, are also dependent on the ZOan user's physical strength. Rob Lucci explained that Zoans increase the physical stats of their owners and are that Zoan users are the best in close combat. If Zoro for example ate the Gorilla devil furit, and sliced a mountain, you can't use it as an indicataion that The Gorilla devil fruit is "far more powerful" than other average Zoan Devil fruits. The user of that fruit was already cpable of cutting mountains with or without his DF.

A clamity like Jack destroying severl buildings, something he should be able to do caasually with his Zoan Devil fruit, doesn't mean that his Zoan devil fruit is more powerful at all than other Devil fruits.

We do not know enough about X-Drake's abilities without his Devil fruit, to judge how powerful his Devil fruit made him. If X-Drake, for example had eaten a Crocodile Zoan, there is no guarantee he couldn't have pulled it off.

Ancient Zoans are certainly rarer, but I feel it is premature to say they are more powerful. Emp3r0r.Lance (talk) 21:17, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Carnivorous and Ancient Zoan Strength
The tidbits on Carnivorous and Ancient Zoans being stronger/better adapted for combat than regular Zoans should be removed, as since we have no direct way of confirming it it is very speculatory. Many herbivorous animals in the real world are very powerful such as bison and rhinos, to name a few. Not to mention all the Impel Down guards are herbivorous Zoans. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:55, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

All of them?

22:59, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

The reference says Chopper said it. SeaTerror (talk) 23:40, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Chopper only says they become more aggresive. The rest is speculation. I'm not even sure we should consider carnivorous a "sub-class", though. It seemed more like just "Zoans that are carnivorous" than a separate type. 20:39, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

What Kage said. 20:43, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with what Kage suggested. 17:54, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah Kage is right. Saying Ancient/Carnivorous are stronger and etc is speculation. An Ankylosaurus (if such a devil fruit where to exist it would be both ancient zoan/herbivore) could be just as deadly as a Tyrannosaurus Rex. 20:12, September 10, 2016 (UTC)

Mythical naming
I'm posting it here because it concerns some Zoan, but in fact it is a discussion that would go for each fruit article. I see the mythical Zoan fruits are being listed as if their name was "X X no Mi, Model: Y" (X X Fruit, Model: Y), but they are actually named "X X no Mi, Genjushu Model: Y" (X X Fruit, Mythical Model: Y).

Catarina Devon's fruit was named イヌイヌの実 幻獣種モデル九尾の狐 on chapter 925 and Marco's fruit was named トリトリの実 幻獣種モデル "不死鳥" on Vivre Card.

The "Mythical" bit is part of those fruits names and is ommited in their articles. Gorenja (talk) 12:17, December 1, 2018 (UTC)

Just pointing out that we also have Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu(ヒトヒトの実 モデル：大仏) and that one doesn't have "genjūshu"(幻獣種)-part in its name, as seen here. --JouXIII (talk) 13:22, December 1, 2018 (UTC)


 * You are right, maybe adding the Mythical/Ancient bits to the name of the fruit was something Oda decided later on as every of those named after Marineford carry such in their names (including the newly revealed ancient models of Dragon Dragon fruit). I would guess we'll probably have Sengoku's fruit being changed next time (Vivre Card, most likely), but regardless of it I still propose the others have those particles included in their names as they are named like that. As it stands now, except for Sengoku, we are using shortened made up versions of those fruits names. - Gorenja (talk) 18:08, January 3, 2019 (UTC)

Ancient and Mythical are subtypes of the Zoan class, just like the Carnivorous Zoans from Water 7/Enies Lobby. Drake's fruit was referred to as an ancient Zoan on Sabaody. It's not part of the actual name, merely a classification based on the type of creature into which the user can transform. 19:19, January 3, 2019 (UTC)
 * That's like saying we shouldn't include the "Model X", because it's a sub-class of the Ushiushi no Mi or whatever fruit. The full names as presented in the manga include the 幻獣種, it's on equal levels of importance as "Model". • Seelentau 愛 議 21:39, January 3, 2019 (UTC)

Sengoku's Vivre Card has come out and does name it as ヒトヒトの実 幻獣種 モデル："大仏"

So now we have:


 * Devon: イヌイヌの実 幻獣種 モデル 九尾の狐 (Chapter 925)
 * Marco: トリトリの実 幻獣種 モデル "不死鳥" (Vivre Card)
 * Sengoku: ヒトヒトの実 幻獣種 モデル "大仏" (Vivre Card)


 * Drake: リュウリュウの実 古代種 モデル アロサウルス (Chapter 929)
 * Page One: リュウリュウの実 古代種 モデル スピノサウルス (Chapter 929)
 * King: リュウリュウの実 古代種 モデル プテラノドン (Chapter 930)


 * Orochi was introduced as 動物系 幻獣種 ヘビヘビの実 (モデル 八岐大蛇) in Chapter 933.
 * Sengoku was initially introduced as 動物系 幻獣種 ヒトヒトの実 モデル "大仏" SBS Volume 60.

So all of the relevant Devil Fruits include ancient/mythical in their names, either before or after the base name of the fruit. The mythical model / ancient model format is more common and should be used be for consistency. 45.56.153.234 03:47, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

I would support using the full names in their intros and infoboxes. Don't think we should change the page titles, though, that would be a real mouthful. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 05:59, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Orochi's infobox with the the longer label shows that it's just specifying the classification. Should not be considered part of the actual name. 09:26, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Carnivorous
While I can appreciate someone making a subsection for Carnivorous users, this is a double edged sword. Lucci and Jabra aren't remotely the only two carnivorous users. Perhaps it would be easier to remove the carnivorous section, and instead use a * for all the CZ users? As also, carnivorous is a subtype within the other subtypes.

Zylo16 (talk) 00:16, January 13, 2020 (UTC)

I don't think so. The current layout is good. (GoldenOath20 (talk) 01:22, January 13, 2020 (UTC))

Shouldn't we add Pell, Chaka, Drophy, the Boa sisters, Oniguma, Smiley, Bian and Morgans to the Carnivorous subsection? All the animals they transform into are Carniviorous in nature. Blood-Blood-Fruit (talk) 10:57, February 1, 2020 (UTC)

Carnivorous animals are not the same as carnivorous sub-class. The sub-class was stated to be ferocious and the character you mentioned weren't shown to be as such. Dogs are also carnivorous, yet you san't really think think to include Lasso, and there are also omnivores like humans. Rhavkin (talk) 11:03, February 1, 2020 (UTC)

I partially agree with Blood-Blood-Fruit. I feel that the animals of predatory nature should be included in the Carnivorous catagory.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 12:26, February 1, 2020 (UTC))

See Template talk:Zoan Users Gallery. --Klobis (talk) 07:46, February 6, 2020 (UTC)

Knocked Out
What happens to a Zoan when they're knocked out? Will they stay in the form they're currently in, will they revert back to their original form, or will it be the one they most often use?

Fox Boss (talk) 18:18, May 7, 2020 (UTC)

Talking
Should it be put down that people that have eaten Zoan fruits are capable of speaking while in Beast Form?

Fox Boss (talk) 17:06, May 9, 2020 (UTC)

I don't see why not. It makes sense

Anima40 (talk) 01:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Infobox Image
Can i propose the infobox image be change to depict something more recognisable such as this image of CP9? Sarutobii2 (talk) 04:32, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

I like that CP9 image. There are multiple Zoan users, carnivorous and regular. The members of CP9 are among the most memorable of Zoan users, more so than Dalton. And unlike Dalton, none of them are injured in that image.(GoldenOath20 (talk) 07:12, 10 April 2022 (UTC))

That image for CP9 looks good to me. I would support it replacing the current Zoan image. Damage3245 (talk) 08:10, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The rule has been to use the first display to avoid edit disputes. The Bison fruit is the first (excepting the hidden heritage of the Gomu Gomu no Mi). Additionally, the rest of the article already has more variety of animals and transformations on display. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 13:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The article already depicts the first proper Zoan user in the introduction of the article, and furthermore it's using the exact same Dalton image. It's more informative for the article to have the CP9 image of multiple different Zoan series than show the Ushi Ushi no Mi, Model: Bison twice. Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:53, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Then consider replacing that gallery. The manga has a diagram of the three stages, with Chopper as the example; One Piece Blue also used it for the same purpose. Using it would resolve your issue with the repetitive images and also remove one more gallery from that section. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 03:26, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Changing the gallery doesn't change the fact that depicting multiple zoans is more beneficial and informative for the infobox image, and multiple users across this talkpage and recently editing the article itself have been inclined to show multiple zoans in place the current image. Even on the paramecia talk page at the moment users are open to the infobox image being changed to to a devil fruit that isn't the first displayed paramecia. You're the only user that has been objected to this proposition, and if edit disputes is an issue as you suggested above, this file can be protected if needed. Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm not the one who made the rule concerning which image to use, but these discussions have convinced me that it is the better practice. If you want to change that rule, you should create a forum to properly discuss it as it would affect more than this page/image. The infobox just needs to show an example; the article itself would do a better job at describing and displaying the diversity. But if number and diversity are the metrics you want to use, then Chapter 662 cover would win out over your CP9 suggestion. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 15:21, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Mythical Zoan are hybrid devil fruits
So with the official reveal of the Gomu Gomu no Mi being the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika i wanted to say this but Mythical Zoans are essentially the closest well get to a hybrid devil fruit, a devil fruit that is more than 1 type

Luffy's fruit having the effects of a Paramecia, but also having Zoan-like effects as well and he's not the only one Marco's fruit has attributes like a Paramecia being able to heal others, but also Logia as he produces flames that heal him fast enough to mimic a Logia's intangibility Yamato & Kaido's fruits allow them to produce a certain natural element from their body a bit like a Logia but more in line with a Paramecia's generation Sengoku's fruit allows him to produce shockwaves which is like a Paramecia Devon's fruit allows her to mimic other people's appearance somewhat like the Mane Mane no Mi but better as it also copies clothing Orochi's fruit allows him to survive being killed i believe up to 8 times which could be like a Paramecia possibly like the Yomi Yomi no Mi in a way, saving the user from death Can't really say much about Onimaru's as we haven't seen its non-zoan like ability yet

But the point is Mythical Zoan's exhibit the traits of a Zoan but also the traits of a Logia and/or a Paramecia as well. This can also explain Luffy's awakening, it showcases the Paramecia Awakening of turning the environment into the same thing the user can turn into, generate or manipulate and a Zoan Awakening of a faster recovery rate as he was able to get up from Kaido's bolo breath basically straight away.

Now another thing i wanted to point out despite not relating to the hybrid devil fruit theory, but Mythical Zoan transformations aren't just normal, hybrid & full-beast as Marco & Catrina Devon (and maybe Orochi) have shown only a part of their body transformed Marco's "hybrid" form only changes his legs & arms, while from what we've seen of Devon's forms she's only seemed to grow the nine fox tails

Now the reason i added Orochi there as a maybe is just because from what i've seen, Zoan user's who's clothes do not fit their full-beast form end up with the clothing just vanishing from their body, but Orochi's clothing always stays on his body despite his size so possibly this is a hybrid form or maybe a between hybrid & full-beast hence its size but why his clothing remains. XXMension04Xx (talk) 11:31, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Paramecia is Paramecia, Zoan is Zoan, and Logia is Logia. Marco's is a Zoan that transforms him into a mythical bird with its own abilities, Yamato's is a Zoan that transforms her into a mythical dog with its own abilities, and Luffy's, like Sengoku's, is a Zoan that transforms him into a mythical human with its own abilities. In the same way that each animal has its own abilities. If a user has a Zoan from the Kumo Kumo (Spider) family, do not turn them into a Paramecia hybrid for having the ability to create threads like Doflamingo. Capitán Noot (talk) 10:34, 15 April 2022 (UTC)