Talk:Bentham

Voice Actor note
Franky's voice is bon's too

Clay or Kurei?
Is Bon Clay his real name? Plumber 00:39, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it is, but I have no proof.Blue Leg 01:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oda supplied it as Kurei, which is the name of a holiday. Its on his wanted poster. Transaltors always translate to "Clay" which is simulair to what Kurei sounds like (And I guess the romanisation would come out like that too). I think Kurei is some festival to do with the dead or something, used to know, don't know anymore. --One-Winged Hawk 06:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh... I was going to move it to Bon Kurei/Clay if that was his name. Since it was on his wanted poster, it probably is... but I don't know whether to move it to Bon Kurei or Bon Clay. I'm leaning a bit towards Bon Clay since translators and both dubs and Viz use that. But I want others' opinions first. Plumber 08:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "In Oda we trust!".


 * Oda wrote the series, not the fansubs or Viz. ;-) --One-Winged Hawk 08:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ooook! Plumber 08:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You slightly misuderstood me there... "Mr. 2" is part of his name, I was confirming Kurei over Clay. Its not important, we all make mistakes (done this sort of thing myself a few times). --One-Winged Hawk 08:40, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

however, one could also say its a play on words, the name Bon clay is french (the character also seems to be french, he counts in french , even in the japanese version), but when said in japanese it sounds like kurei wich is the name of a holiday.unsigned statement by 99.250.9.151


 * That is also a possiblity. Another question to ask on top if what the romanization of "Bon Clay" is. --One-Winged Hawk 13:13, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why are you all catering to the Japanese inability to properly pronounce and/or even say L's and R's. Just because the actors can't say the word clay doesn't mean that Kurei is the real word. It's clay. So we should have it listed as Clay.


 * ~Daniel


 * Umm, not sure whether you're implying that we move it to Clay but Oda wrote his name as Kurei as shown here.Mugiwara Franky 05:09, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes I'm suggesting that we indeed change it to Clay instead. It is meant to be Clay. Oda is Japanese so he says it Kurei, but it's meant to be clay. That just the way they say it, Kurei, because they can't say Clay or L's in general. So so they Kurei instead of Clay.


 * ~Dan


 * But Oda is the author so if he writes it as Kurei then its Kurei. Clay, from how I see it, seems to be an Englization of a Japanese name created when there was no proper romanization from author yet. Its like Thriller Bark, before Oda showed how it is spelled, there were many interpretations which included Thriller Barque and even Thriller Park. English adaptations, mostly 4kids in practically, use Clay for some reason or another like how Gedatz is used in edited episodes in the Funimation dub, while Gedatsu is used in the uncut episodes.Mugiwara Franky 05:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Consider this; The Japanese word for "Clay" is not Kurei. Say "Kurei" fast and take into account for the interchangable l/r sound. Its pronounced in english as "Ku-Ray" but will come out sounding like Clay by a true Japanese speaker. We got our Japanese names a lot from the anime subbers and dubbers orginally so Bon Clay is what THEY hear and therefore write. Its only in the last couple of years that scanalations took off, it might have been pointed out earlier if we had had someone like Stephen around to ote the proper translation.


 * Regardless of circumstances... Oda's word is final on any matter, Since Oda wrote it as that (I half expect he did it just to clear up the confusion myself since he had only ever written it in Japanese) that is what we must use. Its not mant to be Clay, it is meant to be Kurei, its hard to accept that since Clay is so commonly used its stupid however; Bon Clay is not a holiday, but Bon Kurei IS and Oda also wrote it as "Kurei" himself. All the male members had numbers for names, all the female members had holidays for names. Mr. 2 Bon Kurei had both a female and a male name.


 * Again, its like with the whole "Chu" and "Chew" deal, most say its "Chu" but Oda choose to write it as "Chew". One-Winged Hawk 09:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * A small note, "clay" is also how "Kurei" sounds if you make the U silent. Which is where any anime sub version will come from. I just found out last week about the silent Us and its occured to me that I should update this note bit. One-Winged Hawk 00:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Bon Kurei (盆暮れ) is actually referring to 2 festivals, as I put in the main article. Just look up in JWPce to be sure. The standard romanization in Japan would be Bon Kurei and Oda already wrote it like Bon Kurei. So it's a no brainer, we should put the article under Bon Kurei and mention that in English the common way to write it is Bon Clay. {C By the way, Bon Clay isn't a French name: bon would mean good, but clay isn't a French word at all. --Xinyingho 21:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I wanted to add: it should be Bon Kure or Bon Kurē without the final i. Let me explain. In the original manga, his name is written as Mr. 2 ボン・クレー, ボン・クレー is commonly romanized as Bon Kurē. But in Japanese site, we can also see it spelled as Mr. 2 盆暮れ, 盆暮れ is "converted" into hiragana by ぼんくれ, and ぼんくれ is romanized as Bon Kure. So there really shouldn't have any final "i" in the romanized name. I really want to know why Oda speeled it as Bon Kurei ! --Xinyingho 23:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ditto thoughts, this I noted in our wikipedia days. heres the back of his coat if that helps. Some of the things Oda produces at times are just plain odd... The Anime said on his back "Okama way" or something... I forget what the manga says, if different. One-Winged Hawk 23:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Like your link shows, it's in the manga version where we can find "Okama way" on his back. But this is already explained in the "Anime and Manga Differences" section of this article :) --Xinyingho 15:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Real name for page title
Shouldn't the title of this page be changed to "Bentham" instead? That is his real name (just like "Sir Crocodile" instead of "Mr. 0" and "Nico Robin" instead of "Miss All-Sunday"). We should also do the same for Mr. 3 (Gial Dino) and Mr. 1 (Daz Bones). --Yatanogarasu 2:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Mr. 2's code name is for the moment the most used name when referring to the guy like Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu.10:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Then what about Edward Newgate and Monkey D. Luffy? Everyone knows them as "Whitebeard" and "Straw Hat", respectively, but their original name is used instead. Yatanogarasu 20:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The thing is with Edward Newgate and Luffy is that they are more known by those names by most. For Mr. 2, Bentham is apparently not much known or being used to refer to him.Mugiwara Franky 07:06, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I agree Bon Clay or Mr. 2 could possibly be his eptithet or something.--Thebishop02 22:11, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Like the Admirals, I believe that this article should be known by the name he's most known by: his epithet! The fans generally refer to both Mr. 2 and others by these names. In addition, these characters' real names may be a spoiler for some, and while it might be argued that coming to a wikia in the first place isn't a very good idea if you don't want to be spoiled, I for one wouldn't want the title of an article to ruin anything for me. Memnarc 02:11, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

A name is not a spoiler. SeaTerror 03:13, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Why the hell did you move this without discussing it? We had a vote, and real names won out over epithets. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you the right to override a community vote. 03:48, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

OMG He's gonna die!
Moved to Forum:One Piece Manga. One-Winged Hawk 15:10, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

History section too long/irrelevant
I think the history section about Mr. 2 in Impel Down contains way too many informations that are irrelevant to what he does. It's fine to write that Jinbei calls out his whale sharks to bring Mr. 2 and the others to the battleship, but what use do we have of knowing that Mr. 3 uses Giant Candle Wall and Iva saves himself and Inazuma with a Death Wink? If we want to know such things, we can read their respective pages.

If anybody agrees with me, I'll go clean up a little in this section.


 * Clean it up, but please create an account first. El Chupacabra 16:07, December 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Half the trouble is the events coming out now are being detailed because their happening NOW. Whereas the events are in the past (alabasta) are being summarized. Why? Because people don't care so much for the past chapters. The Wikia opened up with the end of Water 7, all the chapters before then don't get the "now" treatment. One-Winged Hawk 19:59, December 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * So is it that the past chapters should be beefed up - mostly irrelevant information? -, or the later/current chapters shrunk? Sables 13:24, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Properly a bit of both ultimately. I do note the desciptions of the recent events are far too much often, but the past just aren't enough. For instance, a fight that happens now is often heavily detailed -isn't that what chapter pages are for? Answer: yes. Then when you often read alabasta fights or skypiea you get a quick summery for something that spanned several chapters. One-Winged Hawk 13:33, May 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Almost all the Arabasta chapters do have now a resume (the only arc which lack them now are skypiea and Enies Lobby). They are not as detailed as the last chapters, but since I think these ones are overdetailed I'm not sure they should be used as reference. A chapter resume should be a resume not a paraphrase of the manga which will always be the best source to find things. So every character history part can be shortened with all my blessing. Kdom 14:27, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Bentham's Final Words?
Does anyone else think we should add Bentham's final speech about a flower blooming in hell or his last word to Magallen (Satisfaction!)99.73.24.101 01:05, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe this is not his final speech.. Maybe he is alive, we dont know. 01:08, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Well personally I believe he is alive, but I mean this is the final thing he said. Plus its awesome.99.73.24.101 02:21, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Let's get this straight ..
.. Apparently my other Username is invalid here.

Anyway, all right. I'm actually surprised this hasn't been talked about before. If it has, knowing how people are in general, it probably got deleted off of every visible spot, section, and page. My question is on if why, in scans and in the One Piece animated series, when Bon Clay is mentioned as being queer ('Gay' In English scans) Why does no wiki list that? You can do some looking up on Google and in another wiki called "Wikipedia" And find that the word 'okama' Isn't strictly, or even fully directed to meaning 'crossdresser.' Hell, the term 'transvestite' Is used for those who dress in the clothes of the opposite gender and are attracted (namely) To the same gender as themselves. I know because I personally know people like that.

I don't know, perhaps I may be thinking too far in to the meaning more than others. I'm just tired of wiki's not listing correct information, or fully listing any information at all. I guess it's all right to be misleading, right?

Еустасс Кид 12:45, January 9, 2012 (UTC) You must be a straight male, or a girl, or a girl that has never hung out with the right crowd. What you're basically trying to say is: If you and I were best friends, and just because I never happened to reference you personally as such, and if I never bought you a gift for your birthday or any holiday, that must mean I don't care about you. My hair is a bird and your argument is invalid. There's too many references to say that he's gay, or if by chance he is bisexual, that he does lean more toward men. Your only basis on saying he isn't, is because of one scene that could be considered a joke. After that, I never saw him do anything even relatively related to saying he liked girls/women. Or Nami for that matter. It's a running gag for guys to be attracted to Nami, that much is severely obvious. Mentioning how all the other numbered agents had female partners, and he didn't want a female partner? Could be he just didn't want a partner at all, though. And the skit with Ivankov and the major references there? A bit off topic, but Ivankov is based heavily, heavily off of Frank-N-Furter from Rocky Horror. If you want to discuss on transvestite - Frank too referred to himself as a transvestite and was fooling around with men. If you’re not willing to acknowledge the hints and information in One Piece as much as a creator can do without changing the show’s rating, then I don’t know what to tell you. Mr. 2/Bon Clay/Bon Kurei/Bentham, if anything, can be listed as a transsexual. His ability is to copy people and when he does, so does his gender. Ivankov’s ability is also mainly to produce transsexuals via hormone injections. And these changes aren’t subtle at all, these are full on; Bentham was quite taken with that. I shouldn't even have to fully explain this when it's all right there. But I’m not going to have you sit there and try to say I’m blowing smoke, either. Still, I guess with the calling of 'queer' During Impel Down wasn't good enough information for you guys. Queer is a term meaning weird, also gay. Just as you would say 'Okama' Is a light slang term for cross dresser though mostly meaning gay. There's a page dedicated to explaining the term 'Okama' Here on this wiki, and even lists Bon as one of the transsexuals, but yet his main page mentions nothing of this .. Hmm.
 * You know people that are transvestite and gay. It does not mean all transvestites are gay. Nobody was ever referred to as gay in One Piece, so that would be false information to state that. Plus, recall Bon Kurei seemed more attracted by Nami than by any male crewmember, so his homosexuality really isn't obvious.
 * Еустасс Кид 02:37, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

'Okama' is the given word for that.. Call him 'Gay, homosexual, transvestite, whore' or whatever you like. We use the word Okama here in articles.

{C}Ok Mr. whose-name-is-not-right-or-wrong-but-in-middle Which makes it invalid and which also make your argument invalid. Are we really talking about gay rights here cause my friend you are at wrong place. Take your piece-of-anti-gay-right-mind, take 2 steps and back and shove it up to you know where cause this wiki have listed everything in perfect order and there is no need for a change. Last time humans wanted a change, gays were born and this mess is result of that change so lets not do it again and move on. {C}In simple words, get out of your basement, go to your dog, ????, profit :))) Ahou King MDM  Oi  Need Help?  02:52, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

lol Aren't you a little firecracker? I'd say that term fits you right now. You're spouting off in different directions that have no full reference to what's going on here. Listing my name and trying to use that against me? Wow. And then mentioning gay rights? What are you, homophobic? Also. Are we shifting subjects now? Oh, oh! Let me try! Okay, here I go: I don't have a dog, try again. I have a job so I don't live in a basement. And my house is a town house. I can say that I'm older and much more mature than your current display of how you wish to be perceived. I'm discussing how things need to be listed, and you're sitting there like the cavalry called you in and now it's your duty to degrade, belittle, and offend me so that I slink off crying. Nooooooooope. Еустасс Кид 02:58, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, back on topic LPK. What I was originally trying to say before being rudely interrupted by the pre-schooler tugging my shirt sleeve: Hey, as long as you acknowledge what's going on and know the main meaning of the word Okama, then I don't need to discuss this any more. I'm just sick of wiki's in general that claim to list correct info yet leave things missing, word them different, or don't mention them at all. I just crossed over from two wiki's like that. Еустасс Кид 03:01, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I have a few things. First of all, shut up. This is a talk page, where we discuss problems with the page. Not blabber about useless stuff and insult each other. Obviously you are new here.

Secondly, the "technical" definition of Okama is "cross-dresser." NOT gay. Where did it ever state he was gay in the slightest? Your ideas have no backing, and you are making assumptions that have no basis. Connecting invisible dots is not needed.

Grow up, seriously. 03:05, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Then cross this wiki off too, and goodbye. Sorry that we cant fullfill your wishes, but thats how things work here. If you think we dont use the proper meaning of the word 'Okama' or the way that Bentham is treated around here, then see ya.. We cant help you. We wont change the system for only 1 stubborn user. If you wanna stay in this wiki and live by our rules, then welcome. If not, then sayonara.. The last thing we need is more stubborn users that wants their way to pass...

The fact that you're so hellbent on listing Bentham as gay, the fact that you won't sway from it in the least, and the arguments posted kind of suggests you're homophobic. Cross-dresser and gay are not synonymous, despite how badly you wish they were. Also, if you're pissed at other wikis, take it out on them, not here. Until it says that Bentham likes dudes, we're going to call him a crossdresser, and keep it at that. 03:10, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Ok so my information sources tell me that I was not able to say the correct message in my last comment so I will try again in a language that even your dog who you never had cause even dogs refuses to be loyal to a stuck-up prick like you. You see, here on this wikia we follow what is told in Manga. There may me many scanners who translate that original manga and then write it in english the way they see it but we follow Japanese manga which was published my Oda himself and here on this wiki "In Oda we trust". So if you have reason, proof or logic then please keep it to yourself. Its not needed. Ok now about this personal opinion of yours about me, if you really are a mature, grown, working fellow whithout a dog, why don't you get a girlfriend and tell your reason and successes to her cause here on this wiki WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT !!!! There are people on this wiki who have done more work then all the calories you ever burnt in your fat-ass life. Another thing Mr, Hardly-working. STFU !! -- Ahou King MDM  Oi  Need Help?  03:11, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Um...just sayin', but I recall Bentham sung a song about being queer during his introduction in Impel Down.  le Nada  Troll  03:14, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Haha, ohhh boy. I guess I was in the wrong only in saying that I thought there was some very understanding people here on this wiki. My only tiff was with how you guys only acknowledge cross-dressing on Bentham's main page, yet have some thing totally different on the Okama page. You all want to sit there and punch in letters that form degrading sentences at me instead of trying to discuss this on a more calmer level. Yes, I said that I don't fully agree with any wiki I join because of how they're ran and who edits them. Does this .. Some how make me stuck up? No. I'm just one of the select few that like things truthful. No gray areas. I'm not going to get down and out for all of your assumptions put toward me, because last I checked, you didn't live down the street from me. And I can see why no one had the nerve to ask this in the Talk page before, because 99% of you are just rabid, barking fools with no room for debating and understanding. Yes though, thanks to Uknownada for at least attempting to go back on topic for this. Еустасс Кид 03:22, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

And this: The fact that you're so hellbent on listing Bentham as gay, the fact that you won't sway from it in the least, and the arguments posted kind of suggests you're homophobic. DancePowderer   Talk 03:10, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Consider what you're trying to say and what you're typing, please. If I were homophobic, I'd be hellbent on deleting this page, Ivankov's page, and all the others listed on the Okama page, including the page itself. I'm personally a straight male but I know a lot about this stuff because I have friends who are in the wide spectrum of different terms for sexualities and myriad terms for gender bending. I sincerely fail to see how my personal life involves a character talk page. Еустасс Кид 03:32, January 10, 2012 (UTC)