User talk:SeaTerror

Welcome
Hi and welcome to the One Piece Encyclopedia! Thanks for your edit to the Mr. 3 page.

Inflaming an argument
Not to be a bother, but based on some of your comments in the Nakama discussion, you seem inflaming the argument a bit. I know it is not your intention and you are probably just speaking your mind on the matter, but it maybe wise to choose your words abit more carefully especially in such a heated debate.Mugiwara Franky 10:27, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Quote:


 * "I can tell you know absolutely nothing about fansubbing. The majority of fansubs leave some Japanese words untranslated. Usually attacks and honorifics.Nobody would be confused about it. They would just look up the word if they didn't know it and be fine with it. Also if you noticed only Devil Fruit is translated and none of actual fruits are translated."


 * and Quote:


 * "Well so much for your "The Poll shows a clear victor right now" comment. The whole point about using nakama in episode titles is that this wikia uses fansub titles and not official titles. Yet you never complained about that when arguing to use official titles. Nakama has always been used on this wikia and it should remain so."


 * and also Quote:


 * "Actually it means a lot. It shows you are bias. You went straight for the nakama titled episodes but left everything else alone you claim to have been mistranslated. You yourself are not objective when your blatant bias is so obvious."


 * These and some others are comments that can be perceived as an attack on DemonRin directly. Part of what's been said is true to an extent but the way it is worded looks like it would inflame the argument instead of addressing the issue at hand.Mugiwara Franky 23:17, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * The second one can be interpreted as saying, "Ha ha, our side is winning now in the polls and yours is not."


 * The last one could be justifiable to what DemonRin said beforehand, however the way it can be perceived doesn't really help out with solving the issue.Mugiwara Franky 05:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * When she said it, the poll had more votes to translate then. Saying something like that then was not stupid. When the poll changed drastically at later time and no longer reflected her statement, it does not mean her statement about it back then is now stupid, it only means that her statement was based on something that happened.


 * What's happening in the polls is what happens in a poll between two presidential candidates. In the first month, president candidate 1 is leading in the polls and someone says they're winning and would probably be the president. In the second month and much later however, candidate 2 suddenly makes a drastic comeback and is now in the lead. With that in mind, it's really improper to say that the statements about candidate 1 were probably gonna win were stupid. They were made based on facts at the time and just because current facts no longer reflect, does not mean they now under stupid statements.


 * Seriously, stop mud flinging in the discussion like saying, "Whoever told you that was flat out wrong. If you looked at the history of all the episodes, the episode guide, and the manga articles you would see a lot of reverting to fansub/scanlation titles usually K-F's for anime and FrankyHouse/Binktopia for scanlations." and discuss things with respect to everybody else.Mugiwara Franky 22:54, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's true that what you said didn't have any swears or name calling, however your comments can really interpreted as such based on how they are worded. I'm sorry if I interpret them as such but based on the flow of the discussion at a glance, it kinda appears you at least aid in attacking DemonRin.Mugiwara Franky 23:56, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Edit War
You know that edit war is not a really good way of editing ? And in your case you are actually wrong. If you disagree with the content of how to use the Template:Strawhat which explicitely says Please only add this template to the Straw Hats' pages only as the allies are not part of the crew proper, start a discussion on it's discussion page but stop reverting the articles. Kdom 21:39, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

re:Image Size
I originally tried it at 150px, but it ended up looking pretty cluttered in some places. And in others it just looked too big. Especially with the old t.v. aspect ratio images. Here's when I tried it out. You can talk about it some more at Forum:Standard Image Size.

Chapter 399
Please tell the truth, you noticed my work on that page and you thought "this is vandalism!", right? --Meganoide 19:31, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Donflamingo's Devil Fruit
Please explain your reasons here. YazzyDream 06:19, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Shounen Jump
What do you want to do? When was Shounen Jump released on Tuesday? --Klobis 02:14, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know that is what it has been for a few years now. It use to be on Wednesday then they changed it to Tuesday. SeaTerror 04:46, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

No... It use to be on Tuesday but they changed it to Monday. (May 2003-) --Klobis 06:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Stop writing in a wrong date. --Klobis 22:25, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Salco
You must tell me who of animators wanted Salco for his name, huh? And, you must move Magellan to Mazeran, because it is not proven Oda wanted it. --Klobis 06:42, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't matter. You changed it because you think that's what is name is without any real evidence. SeaTerror 18:59, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

What a surprise! So you have the REAL EVIDENCE! Please show me! Who of animators? I beg you, the one who thought Captain Gorilla is a real gorilla. --Klobis 03:01, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Show me the real evidence. --Klobis 05:17, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

That's ironic coming from you who thinks just because something is similar means that that is the correct name. SeaTerror 18:37, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * So I have told. If you think so, move Magellan to Mazeran. Why aren't you going to do that? --Klobis 00:17, September 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mr. SeaTerror : "Donquixote Doflamingo"!? It is a speculation! His name is Donkihoote Dofuramingo! ←lol
 * Plus, you must move Captain Gorilla (if you think he is human). His name is also a speculation, eh? --Klobis 02:12, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

I will move the pages again. Do you intend to still object? --Klobis 02:33, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Of course I do. SeaTerror 18:23, September 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then why aren't you going to move some pages such as Magellan or Doflamingo?
 * If you think their name are speculations - then move that ^^
 * If you don't think their name are speculations - Wait, is there the REAL EVIDENCE? You contradict yourself. --Klobis 00:01, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

You're just an arrogant moron who thinks they are right no matter what and love speculation. So you're not worth the time. SeaTerror 01:20, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can't you read my comment? If Salchow is a speculation, aren't Magellan or Doflamingo speculations? If you cannot answer it is that you contradict yourself. Then I must say "Sorry SeaTerror I'm going to be a little rough but how much of a thickhead are you!?" --Klobis 02:25, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can talk back to nothing after all. This means you are BAKA. --Klobis 01:13, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Anybody who is as conceited as you is an idiot. So you forgot to call yourself the "baka" SeaTerror 01:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * You spoke ill as always BUT were not able to argue against what I said at all. You do not notice own contradiction. Where's your real evidence? Give a logical opinion, not a bad-mouth. --Klobis 02:47, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you cannot argue (logical opinion), I will move the pages again. --Klobis 02:51, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Is there the LOGICAL EVIDENCE!? You make it selfishness without grounds. --Klobis 00:20, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * While you cannot argue, do not edit selfishly. --Klobis 09:31, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Your action is too self-centeredness. When may I hear your "logical argument?" Because you contradict yourself, you can talk back to nothing. --Klobis 06:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

When can I hear your "logical argument?" How selfish you are! --Klobis 13:22, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Henna Oyaji
I'll keep it simple, the Non-Canon Characters category is used for characters not canonical to One Piece. It is irrelevant if he is from Wanted because the proper use of this tag concerns only the One Piece World regardless if Wanted is a oneshot manga from Oda! Since his only appearances have been in the anime but not in the manga it is justifiable that he belongs there. Unless he appears in the One Piece manga you shouldn't remove it. MasterDeva 00:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't matter at all. They are canon to their media and actually that template is for characters for One Piece use only such as Movies and fillers. SeaTerror 01:19, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well

 * 1) Its harder and takes longer to get hold of subbed episodes
 * 2) They've always been harder to track since they can cease operations over night at ANY point
 * 3) They were forgotten
 * 4) I have no idea why their not on here otherwise

Thats the reasons. 94.168.119.106 06:45, September 14, 2010 (UTC) (Hawk)


 * Sounds like a plan, that page is for such information. If need be it'll do as a temporary measure until proper articles are made. If theres enough weight of information however... Yeah why not I guess, check with MF its okay since we have subs it shouldn't be a problem. But you know, I've always been wary of too much information. But ultimately, if they read it they read it. Simple as that, although beyond out front page there shouldn't be any information or links to such sites, take that in mind.


 * I haven't got a lot of thought right now on the matter, just had someone leave my legs swelled up from a kick. Thus I'm in a great deal of pain. On the one hand I'm not moving much right now so I have a lot of timed to work on the wikia (slow computer considering) and on the other... It hurts, I'm surprised he didn't break my leg... Don't ask, you don't need to know what happened. I'll just be around for a few hours, maybe not heavy editing but certainly editing. ^_^' 94.168.119.106 16:41, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

One day
THE ROOTLESS OFFICIAL WEBSIT - Hey, they say the song name is "One day." You are wrong. --Klobis 01:05, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Archetype
Seriously, dude, stop trying to delete the page. It's part of the Literary Device pages. And it's pretty informative and interesting.  YazzyDream  06:05, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Category:Literary_Technique The actual template has been put up for deletion now. The articles have NO connection to One Piece and do not belong on the wikia. SeaTerror 18:19, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Tab talk pages
Well, I guess you make the extra pages and redirect them to the main talk page.Mugiwara Franky 01:56, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Luffy's bounty
Look, I understand that you aren't willing to take Fake Luffy at his word here, but your approach to enforcing this is not going to work. The infobox locked at 400,000,000, so for consistency if nothing else Luffy's page is staying at the same total. If he's lying, he'll be disproved later. If he's not, it's true now. Either way, for the moment, he is a reliable source of information for the person he is trying to imitate, so please stop edit warring over the fact simply because you don't accept that fact. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 05:19, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Behavior
I as well as others have been noticing your behavior in regards to certain edit wars. Recently, the matter has been brought up to me more prominently. Now while you have your opinions, you really need to discuss them more properly with the community and at least listen to what everybody is else saying.Mugiwara Franky 04:38, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Excatly. Like with the Archtype page, he was like all "Delete it now! Now! Now! It has no place on the Wikia!" Without explaining his reasons right. He would not listen to me when I tried to tell him why the page belongs here and he was like "It's pointless, PERIOD". If he can't provide a strong reason there is no reason why the Archetype page should be deleted.

Joekido 07:13, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Huge irony coming from you Joekido. Especially how you just proved you blatantly ignored what Mugiwara Franky said on the Archtype talk page. Anyway, what did you mean by more prominently? SeaTerror 17:47, October 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Got a message from MasterDeva notifying me of your behavior.

"'This is getting annoying, SeaTerror doesn't listen to anyone anymore... I think you must have a word with him, this isn't just about Luffy's bounty, I'm talking about his overall behavior in general. MasterDeva 20:49, October 9, 2010 (UTC)'"


 * Your behavior was rather clear however since someone notified me, you can say the matter was brought up prominently. In other words, the rather clear problem has come to a point wherein people have no other choice but to report it.


 * You may have some points, however how you are expressing them can be taken as very bad. Your reply to Joekido above for instance can really be interpreted as wanting a fight. Saying stuff like "certain pages are pointless" in a very bad manner can really tick some people off.Mugiwara Franky 17:01, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Council vs counsel
Yesterday i was fixing some redirects and out of the blue i discovered i was CREATING more redirects. I controlled chronology and i saw i had moved the page from one to the other. The problem is that I'm pretty sure not to have done it. After that i received the message from Kaizoku-Hime, and then yours. Reading your message I understand that you can confirm to me that I didn't it, is it right? --Meganoide 10:22, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Non Canon
Will you stop being a jerk about this. It's true that I am no longer responding to your argument in the Henna Oyaji on Canon or Non-Canon. However, it's only because you are no longer giving a proper argument worth arguing with. You keep saying that they are canon to their own series and what not. However, you keep ignoring the fact that people are interpreting Non-Canon as being Non-Canon to the One Piece manga. Note how many people are arguing with you on this matter. Other than me, there is MasterDeva, The Rogue Penguin, Klobis, there is anon by 74.178.103.148. At least four people other than me I can tell interpret that Non-Canon means Non-Canon to the One Piece Manga.

Even before I took a personal involvement with this, you've been arguing with others about this. Whenever somebody tries to note those characters are Non-Canon based on the interpretation that they are Non-Canon to the One Piece, you flat out ignore them without considering why they are labeling them as such.

I like Masterdeva no longer wish to discuss in that little discussion at Henna Oyaji due to your half assed argument. You are constantly saying the same thing there without giving anything else. It's only when somebody reveals something to you that you say something. However even then, it all goes back to you saying your original argument without anything else.

The discussion at Henna Oyaji has gone out of hand. I started it because you keep arguing with other editors over something that is common sense based on the subject of this wikia. Non-Canon in a One Piece wikia is interpreted as Non-Canon to the One Piece Manga. If you want to continue, continue it at it's proper place. The discussion at Henna Oyaji was supposed to be for that character only. Your argument has gone way beyond the character.Mugiwara Franky 15:09, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

If you don't think that's a proper argument then you have no business at all being an admin. If you want something to be accurate then create an entirely new template called "Non-Canon to One Piece" because it is a flat out LIE to call them non canon when they are not. Also you said that those are for One Piece use only so then why don't you remove the,Human, Male, Dead Characters, and Snipers templates from Wild Joe and others? You were the one who made it beyong Henna Oyaji. You were the one who put the non canon category on all the pages obviously after you read the Henna Oyaji talk page. You were the one who continued it way past that by assuming you were the one who was right and put them all back on the articles. Also that anon only made 2 edits other than the character articles. Also if you don't respond any time soon I won't be able to respond for awhile. I'm going to be gone for 2 weeks-1 month starting tomorrow. SeaTerror 17:02, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

By the way you seem to be defining Canon, nothing can ever be called non-canon. Filler characters and episodes? Nope they're canon to the anime. Harry Potter? Nope he's canon to his series. Well yeah. But, as MF stated in his statement here and you ignored, this is a One Piece Wiki. Unless it has a direct link to the One Piece world through one of the accepted sources, it's non-Canon. You seem to understand that there is a difference to canon between different series, so why is it so hard for you to understand that, on a site about One Piece, things from other series can't be considered canon to One Piece?unsigned by User:Silicontree


 * @SeaTerror What the fuck are you going about because you are clearly messing things up based from this answer. It's true that I put the Non-Canon category on those pages after the Henna Oyaji discussion because I did indeed felt that putting those there were right. However, I did so in correlation to the community was saying. Nobody but you was supporting that half assed understanding of what Non-Canon means.


 * It's true that those articles were canon in their right but they are not canon to One Piece. For God sake, think for a second why there are people who interpret Non-Canon as Non-Canon to the One Piece Manga. This site is a ONE PIECE ENCYCLOPEDIA so naturally people who see Non-Canon will interpret that whatever is categorized as Non-Canon is Non-Canon to One Piece.


 * You want me to propose Non-Canon to One Piece? Fat chance. You should be the one since it appears you are the only one who understands it that way. Don't expect an admin to do what you yourself should do. You didn't start a discussion in Henna Oyaji while edit warring with others. I started it for you. It's time you start a proper discussion for a change.


 * I did not say the Non-Canon category was for One Piece articles. You were the one who was going about it without even searching around the site apparently. I changed the category explanation in order to incorporate those articles.


 * For the Sniper, Human, and etc. categories, those articles fall in those categories regardless of whether they are Canon or not. Think before you argue.


 * As to whether I think your argument is proper or not has little to do with being an Admin. If I think your argument is shit then that has nothing to do with anything. That is my opinion.Mugiwara Franky 17:35, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. While writing my little rant to you, another person User:Silicontree has stated the same reason that everybody has been stating. Comprehend what we're saying for crying out loud.Mugiwara Franky 17:38, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Actually you put them up there WITHOUT responding again to the talk page comments. If anything it was just an abuse of your administrator power. I know what non canon means. Yes they are non canon to One Piece but they are canon to their original work. That is literally what canon means. Therefore if you want them to have a non canon tag then you should be the one who makes the Non-Canon to One Piece template.Then your opinion would just be pure shit since my argument is not invalid. SeaTerror 18:05, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Say what you want about whether I'm abusing my administrator or not, it is far more clearer you have been arguing with whoever thinks otherwise from your opinion, whether they be admin or not. You have been doing this for some time that Masterdeva had to report about the discussion. Hence my more active participation on this matter.


 * Also you are still not getting the point of what we've been trying to say about the Non-canon. The Non-Canon category is understood to be a category that's supposed to list stuff that is Non-Canon to One Piece. If it's not canon to the One Piece storyline, whether or not a material is canon to its original source, people will see the justification of why there is a category called Non-Canon. The first thing they ever think about when they see a Non-Canon category here is and will always be Non-Cannon to One Piece. You keep saying that the Non-Canon category is a lie but are you really thinking of what most people will think of such a category refers to?


 * Also you are the one that wants the category Non-Canon to One Piece category. Everybody from Silicontree here to all those people who've you edit warred in the matter, understand what Non-Canon refers to in those pages mean.


 * Also "Then your opinion would just be pure shit since my argument is not invalid.". That's either non-understandable or stupid. This is why Masterdeva, Joekiddo, and others don't like responding to you. You don't think things through and say the first thing that agitates people.Mugiwara Franky 18:29, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Actually the first thing I ever thought of when I saw the category was filler characters from the One Piece anime. That is the most obvious example. It is a lie because Non-Canon literally means it isn't canon to something. Since they are canon to their original source then putting that template on the articles is a lie. If it said Non-Canon to One Piece then it wouldn't be a lie. You're the one who said my opinion was shit so I can say whatever I want about yours too in that case. SeaTerror 18:39, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's what you thought. When one sees Non-Canon, people do think of filler characters. However, they also think that Non-Canon means Non-Canon to the storyline of the prevailing manga for which this site is based on. It does not necessarily mean specifically from the anime. It means what it means Non-Canon to the One Piece manga storyline.


 * You are constantly interpreting the Non-Canon category meaning that whatever is labeled with it is Non-Canon to its original source. However that is not the case. The case is that the category points to stuff that is Non-Canon to One Piece. This is also the reason I changed the wordings in the category. To make it clearer.


 * Also I said I thought your argument was shit. I did not say your opinion was shit. I said so because you are not giving anything else to support your opinion. Regardless, that does not mean that if I give you an explanation or anything else, you will downright ignore it. Seriously you aren't giving anything else. Besides you asked for it. You keep asking for a response and I said it. Then you said, "If you don't think that's a proper argument then you have no business at all being an admin." Who isn't going to say shit to such a response.Mugiwara Franky 19:05, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

No since it says Non-Canon and not Non-Canon to One Piece then it is flat out stating that they are not canon at all. You obviously just don't understand the argument if you think its shit. Also this is most likely the last response you will get from me until I get back in two weeks. SeaTerror 05:13, October 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand it that the Non-Canon category is viewed by most people here as referring to Non-Canon to One Piece. If they understand it as such, then there is no need to make it more complex than it is needed.Mugiwara Franky 06:45, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Unnamed crews redirecting
Geez, man. Those unnamed crews were just too short in information to keep around. And the fact is: they are unnamed! If we create unnamed crew pages for every pirate captain that appears, then there would be one for Albion, Lip Doughty and Brownbeard, above others! Here's a forum to discuss things, and since nobody responded, I did what was supposed to. I mean, we do NOT want too many unnamed/unofficially-named pages. Yatanogarasu 04:51, December 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I mean, I once tried to create a series of unnamed Devil Fruit pages, and man, did the argument got ugly. In the end, all those pages were redirected. Also, other unnamed pages like Krieg's Arsenal and Water Gun: they are too small and unnecessary to be kept, just like these unnamed crews. Also, like with Kurono Nezumi and Gu, you can't just create pages with unofficial names like that. And about unnamed ships, I redirected them all because they were too small and unofficial to be kept. Yatanogarasu 05:21, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

warlord thing
Not that I care that you're undoing the warlord edits I made, but Angel said they could be kept as is until a vote comes. Or you can continue reverting them. So, don't put yourself out. Since Angel said just to leave them, I'm going to follow her advice. But, if you're determined to undo all of them i can give you list of the ones you haven't reverted (I made one should this kind of thing arise). So, let me know.DancePowderer 03:52, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

If changing everything back to Shichibukai really matters that much to you, then i feel i should tell you that you got all the ones i changed except Baratie Arc and Kaizeruhige. Again, if it matters that much to you, change them. If not, whatever.DancePowderer 04:17, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Can't remember all of them...
But Kdom apparently stopped editing at least for a while, since I haven't been on the wikia much in the last year, I can't confirm if Kdom left for good or not and hasn't edited since. Kdom was heavy editing up until this. Kdom wanted more use of the manga, but there was a conflict of Image Guidelines and a vote was done without preposed changes. The vote had to be redone, which Kdom thought was a bid for me to prevent it entirely. Thus nothing happened. I even did a call out to force changes to the guidelines to allow projects like this to happen. :-(

It seemed strange, everyone was happy to put something in place that allowed a significant change, but were not prepared to alter the rules preventing it and causing conflict. In the end it became apparent that Kdom wanted this to happen out of personnel interests sake alone and not for the wikias interest, and that caused MF to put the foot down on the whole thing and lean to "no". It was really quite sad. Kdom kept saying we should have the manga because it was "true", I pointed out that means RAWS not scanlations, because scanning groups alter things to make stuff sharper (replacing tones for instance). But even then, Kdom completely ignored this and just kept on.

I can't remember the other member who left, but they were a sort of "partner" to Kdom I recall. The troll? They signed up just to create a fuss so I'm not bothered. Who cares about them? They didn't do nothing for the wikia and yet had a very strong point of view.

I tried to explain to the troll when the troll complained that the vote says "yes" so should happen. But even in govenmentry levels, a policy voted "yes" may be rejected and revoted on if theres a conflict with laws already in place. But again, they wouldn't have none of that either.

I'm not against toggling entirely, I was just upset at the time that there was no attempt to alter the Image Guidelines, they are there to protect the wikia and there to create a standard for the wikia, as well as be the editors handguide. If you don't treat them with respect, why have them at all? And for crying out loud, it would have taken a few minutes to prepose a change! ¬_¬'

Makes you wonder though... What was the point. The guidelines don't say we should use "anime over manga", thats just a practice and its never been altered. If the manga image is BETTER then the anime, then you can have that. Thats was something that WAS pointed out by this conflict, thus Kdom's claim we favor the anime over manga biasediously isn't true because theres no rules that says we MUST use one over the other. And in the end, its up to users to decide, if there is a conflict, we weigh up the two images and possibly need be vote on it. Pretty simple really. Though I will admit the fact there is no rule was a blunder on my part when I wrote up Image Guidelines I forgot to mention manga was usually a placeholder were possible or whatever we use them as. The conflict just pulled up we have a hole, you'd think Kdom would have taken advantage of that hole though. What a mess! -_-'

I think I'll end that there, it REALLY was an ugly mess and its not worth rubbing sand paper on old wounds. One-Winged Hawk 14:38, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * That wasn't exactly how things happened though. The whole thing started around the time where the anime started altering the designs for the Whitebeard Division Commanders; actually things were heated even before that because the anime had used low quality animation for certain manga scenes and people started changing the manga pictures for the anime. The first time the toggling feature was taken up for a voting many people voted for but for important reasons stated by Angel Emfrbl and Mugiwara Franky (which many people didn't consider, me included) the end result was for the feature to get disabled again. Some time after that Tipota left because according to him, "I just lost my interest in this wiki". Angel though in a discussion relates this to rejection of the toggling feature.


 * Afterwards the images issue began with Kdom bringing a certain issue to attention, 'Manga or anime images?', he also mentions that 'Tipota leaving might not be unrelated' in the forum discussions about the Image Guidelines. Kdom was worried because manga images are disappearing from the Wikia (NOT updated) and anime takes it's place, resulting in some awkward problems. Furthermore new users tend to atomically replace every manga image with an anime one relating to the 'we favor the anime over manga' thing which is true for the actions of some editors but not exactly the community itself. Angel Emfrbl wrote the Amended Image Guidelines but not many editors responded because things were quite strained back then leaving the root problem unsolved till this day. Later on Kdom got stubborn, misunderstandings happened and things started going around in circles in the discussions... Eventually Kdom left the wikia for some while, he had another fight with Mugiwara Franky continuing the dispute from befre and left yet again after MF said in the talk page "Just leave already if you don't want to help with the wikia." I don't know about the "troll" thing that Angel Emfrbl referred to but that's pretty much what happened in a little nutshell, SeaTerror. If you want to learn something else you can ask on Angel's talk page or mine. MasterDeva 19:47, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Jozu and Marco as Logias?
Hello! About this diff, I agree that this trivia has to be removed, but your justification is a little weak, as Marco is actually a Zoan, and Jozu's fruit type is currently unknown! Also, I left a message that concerns you on Talk:Laffitte. Sff9 22:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. I wasn't really thinking when I said that actually. SeaTerror 03:16, January 11, 2011 (UTC)SeaTerror 03:15, January 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, that makes more sense! Not that I care about this trivia, but I was surprised! Sff9 (talk) 13:11, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Others considered
Just out of curiousity, who else were you thinking of nominating?DancePowderer 08:03, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Ruxax and Yazzydreamer. SeaTerror 16:57, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Ruxax and YazzyDream are actually good ideas for nominations. You should put their names in.DancePowderer 00:11, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

But I didn't mention them because they haven't been here that long. Also Ruxax hasn't been here since October. SeaTerror 06:43, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

YazzyDream would make a good candidate. You should at least nominate her.DancePowderer 07:05, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

O_O
There was more "Joekido pages"?

As a veteran, I'll tell you the whole story. Joekido first came here right from the beginning because he was banned from the Arlong Park wiki (back when they had one) for these kind of annoying edits, the guys at Arlong Park used to mock him and not take him seriously (he has my sympathy). We spent months trying to get Joekido to stop making these pages and it seemed to finally kick in.

For a LONG time he seemed to give them up and he fell into the role of a good editor (it was welcoming actually). Its not their really spam its just, he makes pages for everything, no matter how big or small it is... "Sterotypes" for instance was another one of his pages. Every time he created one of these kinds of pages, the thought of having to go over the steps to decide first if we should host it, then to clean it up if it was kept (its usually a sorry state) and ultimately; theres no links between the pages.

He does nothing that qualifies as being banned, its not spam really, its just he creates pages without reason, sometimes not understanding why we used to consider deleting them. Just by sight and title alone, you can often identify a typical "Joekido page". Their ALL the same style really. He means well and is such a nice editor when he isn't doing these kinds of pages. I apologise if I'm a little harsh towards him. As I said, he is VERY nice. Its just... He has one annoying editing trait thats all that gives me a headache every time I see it. I've been seeing it since 2006 as well. ^_^' One-Winged Hawk 00:01, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

I already knew the story actually. Especially the AP one because I'm on good terms with a high up. Plus I did say before that I lurked a lot before signing up. :P I knew about those articles months ago. There's a lot of articles I don't think belong on here but now will hopefully be taken care of in a consensus with new admins. Not just Joekido articles I mean. SeaTerror 00:07, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Arlong Park forums let one of the "respected" members mock the wikia for MONTHS even pestering me to "do my job" and edit the wikia like I was some puppet or something. It made me give up the wikia for a while because I didn't want all this trouble. They managed to make the member stop. I told them, I was fine with letting the member run a anti-wikia on his own site, but was distaught that he was using the forum as a battlegrounds to attack us, since he knew several members came there. The one time he edited here I note; he vandalised and laughed at our "mistake" when it turned out months later we were actually correct on the matter.


 * There are spammers, there are flammers and vandals. Joekido doesn't convey himself as any of those. Thank goodness for that at least, his just overkeen. And honestly, I'd rather have Joekido here then go to a forum... And be pestered on X-mas day to fix a wikia because "its my job". ¬_¬' One-Winged Hawk

Can you leave the articles alone till the "discussion to end all discussions" happened? The edits kinda spam the recent activity page, thank you :)Jinbe 00:15, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Seaterror, who are you?

Joekido 00:49, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I hear you, I was clarifying Joekido wasn't a bad editor. Ah, but ST knows the story anyway. ;-) One-Winged Hawk 00:22, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh not you, I meant Seaterror. Joekido seams to revert his edits anyway (till the one-and-for-all decision is made) and I'm always like "nice a new edit!" and then I'm like "meh, it is just the edit war" when i check the recent activity :)Jinbe 00:29, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, thats what a sleeping pill and the time being 00:30 does to you. ;-) One-Winged Hawk 00:30, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

So SeaTerror, you think Joekido qualifies a ban for his insistence of creating all those unnecessary and unrelated pages? Because I say yes, he keeps making new pages and removing the delete template whenever we put one up. You have my support on banning him. Yatanogarasu 01:00, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

I don't need to be banned, I'm just doing my job. It's not like I'm blanking pages, makeing pointless move and adding gibberish in any pages. This is a wrong reason to ban people.

"OMG we must must ban him because he won't stop removing the delete tamplete! THE HORROR!"

Joekido 01:07, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, chill here for a moment Joekido. If you overact it won't do you any favors. ;-) One-Winged Hawk 01:27, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

I know about Greg. If I recall right the person I know doesn't think much of him. I'm nobody you know Joekido. I wouldn't say a permanent ban. Its not like we're blanking the articles to add the deletion tag anyway. SeaTerror 01:10, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, so this is the opinion of Yatanogarasu(a soon to be bureaucrat) on how to handle a long term editor (not just some vandal) that refuses to get his work deleted without further discussion. Scary.

Even considering this speaks volumes, at least AngelEmfrbl admits that this would be to much.--Jinbe 01:16, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

A non permanent ban would be good for an editor who constantly refuses to listen. SeaTerror 01:22, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well ok. But please let me know when the wikias way of dealing with conflicting opinions is "ban em!". Because then I got the wrong impression of the people here and get the hell out. I'm seriously shocked that a ban is even considered. Sure, the created pages are somewhat strange... but one can clearly see that effort went into them. It is amazingly disrespectful to just tag something with "delete" without a real discussion and reasoning backing it up (and a discussion is needed, since Joekido reverted the edits - understandable). This is not some inappropriate picture, it's about whole articles. Now a forum-thread is made, I'm glad about that... still threatening people with bans is just wrong if it isn't vandalism or the likes, even if it is just temporary. How can he defend his point of view when banned?Jinbe 01:50, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its just "overkeeness", takes a moment to make Joekido stop editing and sit down and ask "why" though, once you've got him understanding (bit stubborn on some things). As he said in the very beginning, he wanted to make this wiki as big as another one he was editing, but trouble is he can't always see where he goes wrong and jumps in the deep end. Though I do understand the reasons since I understand why the guys at Arlong Park got completely fustrated with him, even if I end up being the only one who votes against a full banment. One-Winged Hawk 01:23, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

This is why we should not let Yatan become a Bureaucrat

Joekido 01:34, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

New Forums help
Please comment and contribute, as well as invite others, to these forums: Literary Technique pages: delete, Whitebeard's Powers Gallery, Characters' Real Name and Characters infobox pictures. Yatanogarasu 01:27, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Stop making inconsistencies

 * "This is getting annoying, SeaTerror doesn't listen to anyone anymore... I think you must have a word with him, this isn't just about Luffy's bounty, I'm talking about his overall behavior in general. MasterDeva 20:49, October 9, 2010 (UTC)"

Stop making inconsistencies. You say your opinion is superior to official spellings or even Eiichiro Oda, SeaTerror? What you said is too groundless. You move in selfishness without any authority.

Again. Eiichiro is not Eiichirou. Shueisha is not Shuueisha. Toei is not Touei. Tokyo is not Toukyou. What a baseless human you are. If you cannot understand, please ask Oda to change his name. --Klobis 02:33, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

You changed the articles while ignoring the vote that is going on. SeaTerror 15:01, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Re:Joekido
Alright, I gave him one warning, if he persists, then tell me, and I'll ban him right off the bat. Yatanogarasu 20:16, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I told Joekido to go to the forum to discuss things out, so if he does go there, then you should keep watch and chat with him. If he just reverts without warrant, then please tell me. Yatanogarasu 20:23, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

P.S., as MasterDeva reminded me, if you want to ban someone, then you need to apply it on the Forum:Users to be Banned first, procedures. Yatanogarasu 20:31, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, but please remember to use the forum and follow procedures, I forgot myself. Yatanogarasu 20:34, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Zoro
Thanks for fixing Zoro's char box. I tried doing it but after I undid one thing I kind of got lost. Thanks again.DancePowderer 21:17, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

No problem. I just go to the previous correct version and just click submit. Or "Publish" now. Also can we start getting the votes done? SeaTerror 21:22, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Luffy vs. Blackbeard
Hey man! I've created another blog, to follow up my Strawhats vs. Blackbeards. Here's the captain battle:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Yountoryuu/Luffy_vs._Blackbeard

If you've already commented, its complete now. I finalised it. Would you please comment (again) and rate?

Thanks Yountoryuu

It's St. Briss.
I am not in arguing mode so I will state once and clearly; It's St Briss. Just look at the posted picture. it says "St. Briss" on the sails. It sounds strange, but it is St. Briss. What do you mean filler only? It was only in a filler.. I need proof it is "Bliss" or I will not change this.. sorry if I sound rude, I apologize. JapaneseOPfan 22:29, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

It means find an image from the manga or a databook to prove it. Something in the anime that was never in the manga can never be canon. SeaTerror 01:30, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

--Klobis 02:16, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Klobis; well SeaTerror, here you go. JapaneseOPfan 02:20, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Daz Bones Controversy
I got a call about a domestic disturbance about you and JapaneseOPfan having an edit war about Daz Bones being a bounty hunter or assassin. Talk it through in his talk page or start your own forums and talk there, before you go having an editing war, otherwise it would cause counterproductive traffic jams. Both of you are respectable editors, I'm sure you can work it out. Yatanogarasu 03:07, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

SPECTRE reference, baroque works
Why do you think the SPECTRE reference isn't needed? It's pretty obviously inspired by that or what do you think? Pandawarrior 22:41, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Devil Fruit infobox voting [invitation]
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Devil_Fruit_Colorschemes

Feel free to invite others as well, thank you :)Jinbe 23:05, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Bot flag discussion
Hello,

please consider participating in this discussion about flagging the bot. sff9 (talk) 01:27, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

re: Case Closed
I was just thinking about that too, but since i'm not an admin or anything, I can't really change the title of the wikia... or can I? Also, Case closed is the english name after all. Thank god One Piece has no such inconsistency. 20:48, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I suppose so, but as I said before, I'm not an admin or anything so I can't just go and change the wiki name, can I? Actually first of all... Is it even possible to change the name of the wiki even if you are an admin/breau? Don't no, I'm not to informed on that part :p Are you a DC fan or something?? Just curious. 04:23, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

New Forum Invitation
Please participate in this new forum, as well as invite others for more opinions: Forum:Conjectural Titled Articles: What to Do?. Yatanogarasu 09:23, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

New Forums Invitation
Please participate, and invite others to, in these two new forums: Thanks. Yatanogarasu 21:34, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Forum:Merge all the Voice Actors and Seiyu
 * Forum:RAW Japanese Manga Images

Question
Sorry if I missed anything but why'd you undo Ruxax's revisions? I think they were fine. 14:49, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Read Yatanogarasu's reason for removing them in the first place. SeaTerror 15:01, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I read it and I get why now, but wether or not we know if any other people in the crew has a bounty, it should still be "at least" since we don't know, right? Since we know it's "at least" but we don't know if any other crew members have a bounty or not. Get what I'm saying? :\ 15:11, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

No because its speculation. Since we don't know what it is putting just the bounty is the proper thing to do. SeaTerror 16:03, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

But doesn't "at least" imply that "we only know this much" ? 16:42, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Which doesn't mean anything. The proper bounty total is what is known. It is not an "at least". SeaTerror 16:43, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Read Talk:Bonney Pirates first. Total bounty is the sum of bounties of all crew members, not only known bounties. Ruxax 16:45, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Prove they have bounties. SeaTerror 17:03, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Prove they don't. 17:07, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Burden of proof is on the people speculating, Oda. SeaTerror 17:12, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Editing Conflict with Ruxax
While we are deciding with this "at least" factor, can we both please stop editing these specific sections until the problem is resolved? Yatanogarasu 18:33, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Beg your pardon...
But I've noticed that you're getting a little mouthy lately. Bragging about Sengoku's Daibutsu's fruit being a Paramecia, saying "prove it" in a rude manner, and don't think I missed out the fact that you called Klobis a "moron" over the Jyabura/Jabra page: it's in the editing history. Watch out, or you may end up... Yatanogarasu 03:03, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Prove it in a rude manner? Also I know what I said and never denied it. He ignores any discussions just because he thinks he is right. Most things he doesn't even give a reason why he moves them or when he does it is because he THINKS that he's right and that's what something is. SeaTerror 03:09, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, "prove it", just like that. Like you're demanding. Also, it still doesn't excuse you from insulting Klobis, and if you have problems with Ruxax or someone else, then talk with them. If Klobis continues to ignore you, then complain to an admin, don't insult. Yatanogarasu 04:28, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

How is asking for proof demanding? By that logic you might as well let every single edit anybody has ever done on the wikia. What about Ruxax? I never said anything rude to them. He ignored other people and not just me. SeaTerror 04:31, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

What Yatano means is you can be more polite in the way you go about asking it. Instead of just reverting something and saying prove it, talk to the person, ask why they made the edit, then politely give a reason for why you think it should not have been changed. There must be a certain level of civility at all times, or the whole place goes to hell. 04:38, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Moved Discussion Invitation
Please participate in Forum:Total Known Bounty. It is a moved discussion from the Bonney Pirates talk page. Thank you. 02:38, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

[invitation] devil fruit color scheme suggestions
Hey SeaTerror,

since you participated in the Devil Fruit colorscheme thread, I thought you might be interested in the follow up: Devil fruit color schemes: suggestions

16:24, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to new forum
Please participate in the new Forum:Delete or Not: Super-Human Speed, as well as invite others do so. Thanks. Yatanogarasu 08:00, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

New forums invitation
Please participate in the three new forums: I don't know if you saw the Community Messages, since I posted it there, but few people seems to notice it anyways. Yatanogarasu 18:58, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Forum:Using Real Names Instead of Codenames
 * Forum:Birkans: Unofficial Name
 * Forum:Infobox Pictures

re: Nakama Translation
Oh, thanks for the work, but maybe you should tell an admin rather than me. Just wondering- why all the sudden? 17:24, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

I told admins multiple times that we should get the discussion going. I even told DancePowderer recently. So since it was ignored once again I had enough and took care of it. I also told you because you were the last person to give a vote. SeaTerror 17:29, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

I dont get u :)
I dont know why u've left a message on my talk ; but if it's about the logia category, I'll just answer :
 * 1) It should not be a category ,instead a sub-category of the DFs ;
 * 2) I thought Category:logia makes no sense - so I thougt of category Logia Devilfruit ;
 * Besides that, I was a li'l jumpy as I wanted give my new bot some work :)

real name forum
I don't know if you've seen this or not, but there is a debate/vote going on about whether we should use people's real names or code names. http://onepiece.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Using_Real_Names_Instead_of_Codenames&t=20110427233047. Your vote would be appreciated. It's a dead heat. 06:12, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

Arguing with DancePowderer
Hey, if you want to talk with DancePowderer, maybe you should have posted that on his talk page, not mine. And as with Klobis, try to strike a talk with him, and then complain if he ignores you. Klobis is handling with the Japanese translation, and I can pretty much vouch for his accuracy, such as "Jabra". Well, talk with him. Yatanogarasu 19:18, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, why don't you have a talk with DancePowderer instead? You've been warned not once, but twice, and apparently keep arguing. Now, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the Literary Device crap, but since votes were against us, we have to put up with it. Diplomacy fails, and this wiki falls apart with counterproductive edits and arguments. Anyways, appeal with DancePowderer on the banning issue, he was the one who asked me what to do: I just gave him a suggestion. Yatanogarasu 19:32, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Banned/not ?
Hi ST : are you banned or not .. I seriously dont want you to : can you tell me your status, pretty please. 'cause I wanna help you. thanks !


 * Hmm ! so you haven't been banned yet :) .. A forum might be opened .. please try not to insult anyone or being rude :) thanks !

Re: Various name changes

 * 1) Jabura is not a Japanese name.
 * 2) In Japanese jabu is jab, and bura is bra.
 * 3) Also headset brand Jabra is Jabura in Japanese
 * 4) There is no reason to use "jya." "Ja" is far more common.

Dogra and Magra: Kyusaku Yumeno's "Dogra Magra." --Klobis 06:05, May 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh then you should move Koala to Koara since it is speculation that her name comes from the animal. Aladdin to Arajin too. --Klobis 21:55, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I showed you several reasons. In contrast, you were only complaining without grounds. --Klobis 00:22, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Real Name Forum Voting
Well, more or less, most people voted have over 100 edits. Don't know about their duration online, but most are familiar enough for over 6 months. Ask DancePowderer for that. Yatanogarasu 19:51, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Forum invitation - trivia guidelines
Hey SeaTerror,

I started a thread concerning the trivia guidelines (Forum:Trivia guidelines - confirmation issues(?) and possible revamp). Join if you like! :)

00:26, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Check it out
i took off the characters that we havent seen yet and added new fights:http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Imhungry4444/My_next_fight_predictionImhungry4444 23:39, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

Arlong Park and Shark Superb
The Shark Superb was not teared down to create Arlong Park. Can you confirm it? --Klobis 00:16, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Renamin
I have only time to tell a few people about this, I've ask Yatan to put word around, but since you had an issue with it:

Forum:Renaming; without explaination and supplying evidence‎‎

Please can you help get this sort? One-Winged Hawk 13:58, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

re:I fixed it
Oh, sorry, my mistake, I didnt' realize it was embedded. Thanks for catching it and going through the trouble of fixing it. I'll be sure to check for that next time. 20:35, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, one quick question. Is AOS really a fan term? If so, where did it come from (AP, subs, etc)? I'm not trying to argue it or anything, this is just the first time I've heard about it being a fan term. 20:39, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Categories
Please note that all categories are in plural. Woop Slap's not a "mayors", but he's in the category of "mayors". sff9 (talk) 22:47, May 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * It has been changed because it was inconsistent: some categories were in the singular, and a lot more were in the plural, so it just seemed logical to go all-plural. As for "it has always been like this": don't know if there had been a decision, but then, it has always been inconsistent, since some categories (such as Category:Pirates and the crew members categories) have always been in the plural according to the history.
 * I don't really get what is gramatically incorrect. It is stated "Categories: Humans, Mayors, East Blue Characters", which means he's in those categories, where's the problem? (I removed the "Male" category since it is a special case.)
 * Anyway, if you think singular-named categories are better, this can be changed the other way round. But I believe it's difficult to find a singular name for some categories. sff9 (talk) 08:26, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

re:Mihawk Laughter Picture
I'm looking into it. It is for sure deleted since it didn't appear on any of the image searches I did. Do you have any recollection of what it was called? Even if you don't remember the whole thing, part of the name would still be helpful. 23:30, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I found it on photobucket, and I'm working on uploading it. I don't do this too often, so there is a chance I might screw it up in some way. If that happens, would you be okay doing it if I gave you the link? 23:53, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, my computer apparently doesn't like uploading jpg's or png's. So, here's the link http://photobucket.com/images/Mihawk+Laughing/, would you mind doing the honors? 00:10, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

There is usually a way for admins to restore pictures, but usually there is still a deletion history to go by. I think it might have something to do with deleting the history or something. I don't know, I'm still figuring it out. 01:47, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Gaimon and Sarfunkel
Ok, to curb counterproductivity, I locked both pages. On my honor, I won't do anything to them and will change and unlock them when and if that becomes necessary. I don't see what is wrong with the trivia. It is true, the romanization of Simon is Saimon, if you switch the G in Gaimon with the S in Sarfunkel you get Saimon and Garfunkel or Simon and Garfunkel. I'm not saying that Oda meant that, since I really don't know that. I could make it more observational and sound less like a statement, ie "The spoonerism of Gaimon and Sarfunkel is Simon and Garfunkel, which is also the name of a popular singing group." That sounds less speculative, it is merely pointing something out. It is similar to the trivia about Otohime and Tiger paralleling Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, relevant, apparent to those familiar with it, but never directly stated. 03:01, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how people could disagree with it. It's not speculation, and the explanatory evidence is right in front of them, or on the wikipedia page for those who don't know what a spoonerism is. Where would there be disagreement. And when I pointed to Simon as a romanization example, I wasn't talking about that character's name or that Japanese spelling in specific, I was pointing out the basic idea of how the name would be romanized. What I fail to understand is how people could disagree with it. What can be argued against it, ignoring the idea that it is speculation for now? 07:09, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

well...
I read one scanalation a week and thats One Piece, I can't do anything more because quite honestly... I'm with the Vocaloid fandom now and having to acknolwedge the copyrights of this software brand, if I obey the rules of one fandom and disrespect the rules of another it makes me a hypocrit. So I pretty much gave up eeverything along these lines and just stick to the legal stuff now. One-Winged Hawk 09:07, May 18, 2011 (UTC)