Talk:Buggy and Alvida Alliance

Moved
I don't really know why it was made this choice to use this name, but if you want to keep it this way an admin should copy the content in this page in Buggy Pirates, then move that page here overwriting this one. The reason why this should be done is to keep the chronology in one page.

Yeah, why change the name?

Yellow p.182. --Klobis 05:56, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Combine it all
I really think we should just combine the entire three tabs into one main tab, since both sub-tabs are rather short on their own. We can put Alvida Pirates history first, then Buggy Pirates, and then the third section onward is the alliance. 01:09, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan to me. 01:23, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it would look good. Don't forget they have an alliance, they are not the same crew. 10:50, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

What Staw said. They're different crews and have a different history. 11:10, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Keep them as they are. We have to remember they were two separate groups before forming an alliance. An alliance is not the same as a merger. You don't see us merging the Straw Hat and Heart Pirates, or the Kid, Hawkins, and On Air Pirates. Keeping them as they are unites them while still pointing out their differences. 14:49, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

More or less like the Saruyama Alliance? 01:16, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

The only difference being the Saruyamas didn't have any prior history before the alliance, unlike the Buggy and Alvida Pirates. 01:26, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ah yes. Then about "Pirate Dispatch Organization", which Buggy now leads. Should we rename this into it, or make a separate page altogether? 01:00, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hold off on making the article altogether. We know nothing about it other than Buggy founded it. We don't know what kind of organization it is or if it's even run through his crew. 03:49, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Split
I think there is no real reason why the normal crews should be tabs of this page. I believe we chose to make tabs simply because it was the first "alliance" we encoutered and we didn't know how to handled it, so we kinda "merged" the two pages. Even if both crew didn't exist anymore as they were, their pages should exist and stay otherwise would be the same as saying we should delete Baroque Works because the group was disbanded. So we should simply have Buggy and Alvida Alliance, Buggy Pirates and Alvida Pirates as three pages instead of this "thing". Even if the type of alliance is different, we should manage it like we did with the Straw Hat Grand Fleet. I believe this also apply to the Saruyama Alliance too.

I agree. I mean, we don't have the Spade Pirates as a tab of Whitebeard Pirates, even though they were essentially merged. Here, it's not even that. An alliance is not a merger. This type of tab thing isn't done with any other crews. So yeah, split. 09:24, October 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, we should split these pages. Should also do that for Saruyama Alliance if no one has a problem with that. 06:13, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

Split them back to Buggy Pirates, Alvida Pirates and create Pirate Dispatch Organization page

Joekido (talk) 11:48, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

When Buggy and Alvida met, Alvida was alone. She had no crew. She and Buggy made their alliance with each other, both of their crews were not present. Do we even have an evidence that the "Alvida Pirates" are still an active organization? 16:19, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

"Even if both crew didn't exist anymore as they were, their pages should exist and stay otherwise would be the same as saying we should delete Baroque Works because the group was disbanded.". Also, my Spade Pirates example. 18:11, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm saying if there's no "Alvida Pirates" anymore, then it's really just an alliance between Alvida herself, and the Buggy Pirates. We don't need a page for such an alliance, we just have a page for Buggy's crew, and state that Alvida is pretty much a part of that. 18:55, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

Technically you can say alvida was a crew of one, I mean, it's the captain that counts, isn't it? Crew or not, I don't think that changes anything regarding the alliance. I also believe the reason why we have this page in the first place is because was listed as such in the databooks.

If Alvida wants her crew to consist only of herself, it's still a crew. Just split the pages and also make the Buggy's Delivery page. Might need to make a Pirate Dispatch Organization page later on but we will have to see more of them first. 08:25, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Why not keep the tabs, but make everything it's own tab so that we don't have any subpage BS? 15:15, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Tabs are not necessary.

Yeah I dissagre with the tabs idea, they just make the page look more messy. 16:58, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

We still need to talk about this. I don't see how the "Alvida Pirates" can still be considered an active and separate organization from Buggy's crew. 03:54, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

...and having their own page is completely unrelated to their status. See Spade Pirates or any other inactive group.

I don't mean delete the page, I just mean that we should break up this tabbed/subpage BS. The Alvida pirates are NOT a part of this alliance, only Alvida is. We should break up the tabs, have an article on Alida's pre-DF crew, have an article on Buggy's crew, and have a separate article to talk about their alliance. 16:08, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

The we agree since that's what I proposed.

Pirate Dispatch Organization
Are we treating this alliance as if it is the "Pirate Dispatch Organization" or we consider the latter a different kind (at least formally) of group? Because if we do consider them different then shouldn't we make a different page as well? On the other hand, if we consider the organization the "evolution" of the alliance, should we rename the page then? I'm aware that things are a bit unclear, but still doesn't change we have to make some decisions.

I was under the impression the Pirate Dispatch Organization was a sub group of the alliance. I guess in a way it is a "evolution" of the alliance. 01:54, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Move it to Pirate Dispatch Organization. Keep the alliance as is until we learn more. 01:57, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Give it it's own page

Joekido (talk) 02:01, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Let's rename it for the time being, and if later on we learn that its different, we can give it its own page. 10:23, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

"Pirate Dispatch Organization" isn't the name; "Buggy's Delivery" is. 104.238.32.62 12:29, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

Buggy's Delivery should be its own page. We don't know if the crews are still intact and simply part of the the organization or if they were dissolved into it. But even if they were dissolved, they should still be separate pages in my opinion, because the organization is a different thing and was only formed during the timeskip. Half the of the history section would basically be talking about an entirely different thing if they were a single page.

So yeah, make a page for Buggy's Delivery. And this page could use some restructuring, cause it seems to treat the alliance as more like merger, which it is not. 13:47, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

It's not a simple pirate alliance now, it's a full blown organisation. It needs a new page.

Yeah actually i agree with Kage as well. 06:15, October 10, 2015 (UTC) 13:55, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

We don't need to make a new page. We move this one and include the alliance part in the history section. The delivery part is a subsection on the PDO page. You guys are way overthinking this. 16:29, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

I already explained why I think we shouldn't do that. 17:18, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Kage. 17:36, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

I think the alliance was disbanded long ago. The alliance was referred to when Buggy and Alvida worked together to take down Luffy back at Loguetown.

However, by becoming a Shichibukai Buggy CANNOT have an ally, it always needs to be an underling. Law made an ally and because of this his position was jepoardized. Alvida has been made an underling which she doesn't seem to really mind.

This three pages should be separated (at least the Buggy Pirates should)

Grievous67 (talk) 18:30, October 8, 2015 (UTC)

@Grievous67: discuss that in.

We don't need to keep separate pages. The PDO evolved from the Buggy Alvida Alliance which evolved from the Buggy Pirates. Just because they have different names doesn't mean we have to keep each page. You guys are overthinking this completely. If Luffy decided to change the name of his crew to the Whatevs Pirates without any change to the roster, would you say to make a new page for that? No, you'd move the SHP page and continue the history section from there. Same thing here but with the addition of a crap ton of underlings. 06:57, October 11, 2015 (UTC)

The point is that there's no proof that this is an evolution of the alliance/crews. The crews could simply be a part of this larger organization. 09:20, October 11, 2015 (UTC)

Alvida was the only member of the Alvida Pirates to join. Since Shichibukai can't make alliances with normal pirates (as evidenced by Luffy and Law), that means Alvida now works under him. 18:59, October 11, 2015 (UTC)

So am I outspoken or did everyone else get bored? 05:24, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

And since the Shichibukai cant make alliances, we should give Buggy's Delivery it's own page and leave this one, saying this was a past thing. They used to have the alliance so we are keeping the page as it is and we just say that during the TS Buggy became a shichibukai so the entire crew changed to Buggy's Delivery. 08:28, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the PDO is the parent company to Buggy's Delivery. So why can't we just move the page to PDO and include the fact that it used to be an alliance in the history section? We moved it from a pirate crew to an alliance, so why can't we move it from an alliance to a pirate crew? 16:02, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

To my understanding the delivery is the current group, the alliance was active only up to the formation of this group. "If Luffy decided to change the name of his crew to the Whatevs Pirates without any change to the roster, would you say to make a new page for that?" - I think there is a fundamental difference in this case: the alliance wasn't a crew, it was indeed an alliance between two crews/captains. We are not talinking about the Buggy pirates becoming this organization as per buggy's will, like in your example. Rather we are talking about a simple alliance between two captains on one hand and a full-fledged organization with Buggy at the top on the other hand. To be honest I think we made a mistake at the time when we "merged" this crews and basically treated the alliance as a new crew. I wouldn't even consider it a crew, it should be categorized as "pirate alliance" instead. Just think about the Straw Hat-Hearts alliance, if we had an official name would we consider that alliance page a "crew"? Would we make the two crews tabs of the alliance page? And what would happen if that alliance "evolved" in a standard group with Rufy at the top? Would we rename the alliance page? I don't think so. Similar thoughts can be made for the Saruyama Alliance too.

You make a fair point, and I think I understand the reasoning better now. Still, I don't understand why people feel it necessary to make Buggy's Delivery and the PDO separate pages. From what I understand, Buggy's Delivery is just a sub-group/service of the actual crew, the PDO. 16:36, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed with Levi.

As for what is the name, I think it's actually Buggy's Delivery. 16:44, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

But remember, Brannew simply called it the Pirate Dispatch Organization when he was doing the Shichibukai roll call a while back. The way he said it, I don't think it was an informal title. 16:47, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Oh you are right, I had forgotten about that. Yeah indead the way he says it sounds like PDO is the official title. 16:55, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, Levi explained it pretty well. I think "Buggy's Delivery" is the actual name and Pirate Dispatch Organization is more like a description or a title. As in, "Buggy's Delivery is a/the Pirate Dispatch Organization". Buggy's introduction box says "Buggy's Delivery Chairman" and you can see one guy wearing a shirt with "BD". 17:24, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

That's the feeling chapter 803 gives me as well but in chap 700 Brannew says "The leader of THE PDO". Anywway we could name it PDO and rename it if in the other chaps we are given new info. 17:35, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

"The" doesn't exist in Japanese though. And regardless if there's no other pirate dispatch organizations then it doesn't matter. I think Buggy's and the organization's intro boxes are better confirmation than whatever Brannew said. 17:53, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Going back to what Brannew said, his descriptions of the warlords weren't very specific in regard to affiliation with crews, but rather their single greatest renown. He didn't mention the Heart Pirates or Kuja Pirates when referring to Law and Hancock, respectively, but instead mentioned the Rocky Port Incident and Amazon Lily, respectively. With that said, I suppose I could be convinced that "Pirate Dispatch Organization" is just another generalization and not a specific name. The only thing keeping me from being 100% on it is the fact that it was mentioned again when we saw Buggy. 05:10, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

It obviously just means that the organization is called both. I don't think Buggy has a broomstick anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 08:06, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Oda ALWAYS puts description in smaller text on top, name in bigger text on bottom. Hell, there are four other examples in this chapter alone: https://i.imgur.com/M8oVrRW.png The fact that Buggy's Delivery's in quotes should also be more than enough evidence. This really isn't that complicated. 104.238.32.2 08:49, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Ok then just name it Buggy's Delivery and let's get this over with. 10:53, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

So what are we going to name the page? 05:34, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Seems like we're all in agreement. The page has been made, so removing the active discussion template. 13:04, November 8, 2015 (UTC)