Talk:Gomu Gomu no Mi

Oars
Okay, I don't think Oars needs to be mentioned on this page. He wasn't actually using the Gum Gum Fruit's powers, after all. He was just mimicking them. If there's no objections, I can change it myself. At the very least, the information in the opening paragraph needs to be updated, because it's out-of-date. Oars doens't have Luffy's shadow anymore. 174.52.76.189 07:14, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Can we put the JUMP Superstars attacks back?
Seriously, there's only two of them, and omitting them makes the section incomplete. The fact of the matter is, in officially licensed JUMP video games in which Luffy appears he uses these two attacks. They are official attacks Luffy has used, and leaving them out means you are actually omitting attacks he's used.

Plus, this section includes the BazooHa and the GGnKamehameha no problem, those are just as "Non-Canon" as any video game attacks. Not to mention that Popora is a Video-Game only character, and he gets an entire article. I'm just asking for these two attacks to be included.DemonRin 08:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess we can however we would need to supply them with refs otherwise some people might think that they're fan made. (P.S. When starting a new discussion topic, you can either start one by pressing leave message or by starting the new one at the bottom. This is because the ones at the top are generally considered older and can be overlooked by most.)Mugiwara Franky 08:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Luffy's Gear 3rd sprites from JUS Showing Gigant Gatling:
 * Luffy's Sprites From JSS, scroll to the bottom you can see the Luffy and Jotaro Sprites for the GG ORA ORA ORA: Whoever Ripped these didn't rip Star Platinum or Luffy's hands, so you can't see what the attack is doing, but it's a Gatling mixed with Jotaro's Putzun Ora Volley.
 * I could make Animated gifs out of these tooDemonRin 08:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoa hold it!


 * There is a problem with games that I'd like to point out. The filler anime eps are being written to tie in with the series but the games... Their being tied in only with themselves per each own game. Only the Unlimited cruise and Dream games have any references to tie ins with each other and the only known case of game tie-in with the series itself was the Ocean's Dream arc. One-Winged Hawk 08:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Also the games are very "there a gap now fill it!" set. There are things everywhere in them that were there just to have something in that spot to make them flow better. One-Winged Hawk 08:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter, they're attacks that Luffy has done, and there is literally only two of them. You just state that they are "Video Game-Only" Attacks until further notice (since it's very possible Luffy might use the Gigant Gatling in the series in the future).
 * Not including them would be leaving something out. They're attacks Luffy has used in an Officially licensed video game, they belong here for completeness' Sake. you just need to flat out say they're video-game only and it should be fine. They're just as "Non-Canon" as The Luffy x Son Goku attacks from the DBZxOP CrossoversDemonRin 09:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree we're not a FAQ and should not include the game attacks. The list is endless enough and not many of us can double check every single game out there. In contrast, many eps at the very least are on Youtube and others are a download and a wait away. The manga is on onemanga.com. For example, I can only myself check Grand Battle and Grand Adventure since thats all I personnelly. have. One-Winged Hawk 09:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never seen any other game make up attacks. and I have both Jump Games, Grand Battle 3, Grand Battle RUSH, Unlimited Adventure, and Treasure Battle (Can't count the 4kids Games) Although JUS did have Luffy use the Jet Gatling before he did in the series. the Length of the list doesn't really matter since attacks get added almost every week nowadays. The Gum Gum Rain just got added a few weeks ago, then The Champion Luffy got added, giving it a big boost, as well as the Champion Rifle and most recently, the Gigant Stamp. Two attacks won't break this list. If you're worried about the Length, it should be separated into different pages then. One section for his Normal Attacks, one for the Gears, Just that would make both lists exceedingly shorter. Maybe another section for "Luffy's Other Forms" for Afro Luffy, Water Luffy, Nightmare Luffy and Champion Luffy.DemonRin 09:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This "We can't personally check it ourselves" thing is the kind of argument Drunk Samurai used when someone was putting Pappug's Viz spelling on his page. (i.e., demanding that scans of the Viz version be posted before the info was added) And your "not a FAQ" remark makes no sense. There's no direct link between a FAQ and info about video games. You probably just saying that because of GameFAQs, but FAQ just means Frequently Asked Questions; they can be about anything.


 * Speaking of GameFAQs, that could work as an online reference for VG-only attacks if you really want one. Despite all the dumb things on their messages boards, the actual FAQs/Walkthroughs are usually good. 121.50.43.189 09:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If those are indeed the only game related attacks for Luffy, then referencing won't be hard I guess.Mugiwara Franky 09:15, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * They are the only two to my knowledge, and I've played quite a few One Piece games. the JUMP Stars series appears to be the only game series in which they've made up any attacks for Luffy. If including those two attacks makes the list complete, then why not? Just go with what I had there before, it looked fine. Also, if you're worried about how long the page has gotten, two attacks won't have much effect on that. Maybe the Gears and Luffy's other Forms should get their own pages if that's an Issue. It solves the problem of the length, and a few of the other forms (Water Luffy, Nightmare Luffy) aren't directly related to his Devil Fruit anyway, so being in their own sections might be better.DemonRin 09:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay the full list of reasons for no game information;


 * 1) One their not always canon, their their own storylines.
 * 2) their filler therefore and shouldn't be included
 * 3) Their not easily checked and some things are hard to prove.
 * 4) They belong on their games pages, but we don't allow them on the pages (FAQ was correct BTW, I just want to state that)
 * 5) characters are different because we have images of proof in most cases.
 * 6) Grand Battle and Grand Adventure have been the 4Kids curse for a VERY long time in regard to the games attacks. To the point where we had to dismiss the games attacks completely. In order to check the correct and incorrect moves it required both a Japanese and English copy of a game to see if the translationw as right. Grand Adventure there is no such copy in existance.
 * 7) Games information and fller information should be kept on their respective pages seperate. I myself will state I do disapprove of filler information on pages, but will only disallow it when it comes down to character personnelities and incocnsitantcey as well as things written in anime format that were never there in manga.
 * 8) How many editors have information on the games? Hw many websites exist to prove the information? Most websites have the basics. How can we prove a move exists if there is no confirmation outside of game and a persons word of mouth?

There are a few more, but in general their the main reasons. I'll write up the others if I remember them. There was about 10 in total. In short though, games opens up a barrel of worms that causes headaches. If I had on person who said "I have ALL the games" I'd step away from the issue. One-Winged Hawk 09:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) So what? We have info about every kind of official One Piece media, including movies, which are also standalone storylines.
 * 2) This is the same as 1. You're trying to cheaply inflate your number of reasons.
 * 3) In true Drunk Samurai style, you're arbitrarily raising the burden of proof to keep out things you personally don't want. That sprite sheet Rin provided is more than enough. And don't say something like "but we don't currently have proof of other VG things". We don't need every VG thing on here right now to justify Gigant Gatling being on here. Wikis are always works-in-progress.
 * 4) This reason is so bad it's funny. Game attacks make a page a "FAQ" only because you say they belong on their game's pages. Saying an attack listed on this page would make it a Frequently Asked Questions just because the particular attack comes from a VG is completely nonsensical.
 * 5) So you admit we can have game info for things we have proof on, and we have Rin's sprite sheet for Gigant Gatling.
 * 6) This is an obvious straw man. What happened with those games doesn't pertain to what info we add about other games.
 * 7) This is just stupid. We can't just add "This is a VG-only attack" where it's needed just because YOU say they should be on separate pages? Bullshit.
 * 8) This is the same as 3. You're again trying to cheaply inflate your number of reasons.

"There are a few more, but in general their the main reasons. I'll write up the others if I remember them. There was about 10 in total."

Somehow I think the rest are repeats like 2 and 8.

"In short though, games opens up a barrel of worms that causes headaches. If I had on person who said "I have ALL the games" I'd step away from the issue."

See my response to your 3. Also, someone having all the games wouldn't affect reasons 1/2, 4, and 7, so you must have already known those reasons were invalid. That leaves 3, arbitrarily raising the burden of proof, 5, an argument that's actually in support of putting Gigant Gatling here, 6, a straw man, and 8, a repeat of 3.

You've lost this argument. You must now choose between letting Gigant Gatling on this page, or showing everyone that you're anti-reason. Choose carefully. 121.50.43.189 11:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In that case, all filler moves shall simply have to be removed, to prove a point that we're trying to stick twith canon only. If your going to create a fuss over small things, I can always enforce our guidelines here to settle the problems. Its not unreasonable if its written in the rules. I don't want to because it causes arguments, but it would make this page like all the other pages. My time for editing on the wikia is up for the moment, I'll continue this when I've had a two hours break to do other things. I have a lot more to say, but not right now. I wasn't really in the mood for arguing today as I logged onto see a big one as it was already. Plus I need to remember what the other issues were with games here. One-Winged Hawk 11:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's REDICULOUS!! If anything, This list already includes Filler attacks and Attacks Luffy used in the Dragonball x One Piece specials (Both Manga and Anime). Removing EVERYTHING Non Canon would not only be weird, but you'd probably have to quell an Edit war where people wouldn't stop re-adding the GG Bazoo'Ha.
 * The JUMP games are THE ONLY time video games added an attack, so why don't we include them for completeness' sake? Plus, as the above said, Wikias are always a work in progress anyway, so that doesn't matter.
 * The fact of the matter is, Omitting Filler or video game attacks from Official video games is omitting information. If Luffy used an attack anywhere official, then it should be included.
 * If "Proof" is a Problem, I'll take the sprite Sheets and make an animated Gif! It's not that hard to prove, I posted two sprite Sheets.
 * It's JUST two attacks, let me re-add the Gigant Gatling and the GG ORA ORA ORA Please. Even MugiwaraFranky was Ok with it before.
 * Here's my Proof, GG ORA ORA ORA:
 * Gigant Gatling - http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8120/gigantgatling.gif DemonRin 17:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait... Dam this was one of the other 2 missing reasons!). I know this issounds harsh but I meant IN GAME footage when it came to proof not someone's animation! An animation can be altered (I'm a Mortal Kombat fan, I've done THIS myself) and played with. Sorry but this isn't proof enough, scan you tube and look for more. As for me... *sigh* I forget about sprites when I wrote Image Guidelines. Though this IS an animation it still uses someone else's sprites. This is slowly coming back to me the problems of video games, I had to remove such animations once from Zoro and Sanji's pages. One-Winged Hawk 18:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Look at the Link right after I wrote "GG ORA ORA ORA" Above. I filmed my own game. I'll do the same for Gigant Gatling.
 * The ORA ORA ORA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sjS_l9mtg
 * The Gigant Gatling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJlfuHzhFoDemonRin 18:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay this conversation is going to have to end here, I will admit the only reason I'm putting up any fight at all is because we've got a HUGE backlog of unsolved problems dating back from the beginning of the wikia.

Basically, in order to handle one aspect of the games, we NED a general games discussion, most things up to now have been nothing major enough. Games are your normal run of the mill "filler" info, their soething we've just ot got enough info at hand to deal with. I ask everyone move to Mugiwara Franky's talk page and look up the discussion topic there. We will have a general games discussion there and decide whats going to happen to the games.

To be totally honest, the reason why I've always removed moves from games is more then just the problems previously mentioned, its because the last time I tried to spark up a conversation on games it never got anywhere. Before we add games info we need to sort out their weight on the wikia and resolve all the outstandig problems. So please, I know you want those moves on the page Rin, but take note your the first person to ever argue for them. I myself hoped that we'd never discussion them until we had a OP games expert come along who could work on the pages. Not even collectly had we got the full info on games.

I will argue against moves until this discussion has taken place... I've been trying to avoid a circling conversation and this is the only way to end it. I can only repeat the problems people are failing to see; these minor issues are collectively a big problem. It would have been easier for them never to be discussed to save hassle for editors all round. One-Winged Hawk 19:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I hate to be the one to revive this argument but i noticed the "reason" why this argument ended was that it would cause problems if it was added, because we still have a lot of unresolved problems around games.... THE POINT???? Why is this a reason? what problems would it cause to add them here? and even if we would have unresolved problems, why should we not have them here? even if we did add them, what problems would that create? the problem with the game entry's wouldn't change if we add them, and the thing about the games... FILLER is just as non-canon as the game's so why should we not have both when we have one? And why would it save editors trouble not to add them? that's just delaying the inevidable attempt to improve on the game articlesBiropg 22:50, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lots of Odd page edits going on
Someone's been editing this page a lot and removing things that shouldn't be removed. Like someone removed the Gigant Gatling entry for no reason, and deleted most of the "Translation and Dub Issues" section. I just put them back, but maybe this section is being vandalized again. Maybe it should be fixed and then locked for a while.68.228.236.211 09:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not really vandalization, just normal editing by regular editors.Mugiwara Franky 12:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but why does Gigant Gatling keep getting removed? And why does the blurb in Translation and Dub issues keep getting removed too?68.228.236.211 07:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Because they don't belong.Mugiwara Franky 07:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The Translation thing is True, but I guess I get why to remove that. But Why Gigant Gatling? Are you in the habit of completely omitting things?! 68.228.236.211 07:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge Luffy's Forms and other Gomu Gomu Fruit content to this page
I think I better ask this before I do anything. Can Luffy's Forms and Luffy's Devil Fruit attacks be merged with this page in order to make this article better? This page kinda needs some worth mentioning content to make it at least article like. I also expressed my opinions about Luffy's Forms on it's talk page. This page kinda needs to be improved at the very least.Mugiwara Franky 13:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm... Well, I don't see why not. Then the whole lot can stand in for Luffy's attacks page I will be setting up at a later date. One-Winged Hawk 16:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Then do it. Merge them here.

(Joekido 19:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC))


 * we should add the armor of luffy that mr. 3 made for him Coldhandzz 02:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No name unfortunately for the form itself.Mugiwara Franky 11:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Gomu Gomu no Jet Rocket/Missle
Due to the extension of the Luffy vs. Blueno fight, some moves were used that were not in the Manga. One of these (Jet Missle) was used in Chapter 482 and renamed Jet Rocket. Should this mater be addressed? 211.30.212.36 11:29, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Visually Jet Missile and Jet Rocket seem very much the same. However they're different in some areas. Jet Missile appears to be an attack wherein grabs an opponent's head/hair and dives bomb into them. Jet Rocket is also not a renamed Jet Missile attack but a Gear Second version of Luffy's regular Rocket attack. They look the same but are different.Mugiwara Franky 11:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * where is the "Gomu Gomu no Baka"?--Thenewjericho 03:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Protection
You know there has been a guy deleting many important parts in this page and refuse to stop. Can we lock this page until this guy go away?

Joekido 00:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Double agree on that note. Its becoming annoying. One-Winged Hawk 07:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Can Luffy make himself smarter using his elasticity?
Another popular pop-culture character with similar abilities to Luffy, Mr. Fantastic, had once increased his intellect by using his elastic powers to shorted the distance between the synapses in his brain, allowing him to think at phenomenal speeds. Assuming that Luffy would be able to perform a similar feat, then the result would be much like Gomu GOmu No Baka, only the polar opposite


 * The "sign comments" is my most poplaur telling off. Heres your copy it of it: Sign your comments please with " ~ . X-D


 * We'll have to wait and see... Since we had "Gomu x2 no baka" already which made him stupid then maybe. --One-Winged Hawk 16:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Gomu Gomus/Gum-Gums
Didn't Oda say in a SBS question that Luffy can stretch up to 100 or 1000 Gomu Gomus? Or was it Gum-Gums in the English version? Should that be mentioned?

Bone Balloon
This is done by biting into his right thumb, presumably cutting it open down into to the bone, and then blowing air directly into the opened bone.

This seems like overanalytical speculation to me, since it's more likely than not to be just a reference to old cartoons, where characters would sometimes blow up their fists by blowing into their thumb.--24.255.171.220 00:26, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * While its obvious that its a reference, it really does happen. From here to here, one can see that Luffy didn't just simply blew into his thumb, he bit his finger so that the air can have a hole to travel through.


 * Also take into account that One Piece is not a western cartoon where everyone can do all sorts of wacky things beyond the laws of the natural world, its a japanese manga/anime where people are governed by the natural world and fictional pseudo-science. This means that while there are all sorts of wacky characters in One Piece, there is usually some science to it that explains things to a certain fictional degree. For this technique, how else would Luffy blow into his thumb without creating a hole for the air.Mugiwara Franky 08:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * This gif also shows how it is done.Mugiwara Franky 08:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, there's a lot of wacky stuff in One Piece that is beyond the laws of the natural world. I've never seen a guy who can kick down buildings by kicking them, or a guy who can make ramen with his nose. 174.52.76.189 07:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, there's a lot of wacky stuff in One Piece that is beyond the laws of the natural world. I've never seen a guy who can kick down buildings by kicking them, or a guy who can make ramen with his nose. 174.52.76.189 07:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

New Gear Third image
Sorry, I removed the old Gignt Pistol image and put a .gif of it instead. Is that okay? Uglyguy2008 23:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * From the Image Guidelines, just ask yourself; is it only depicting one thing and one scene only? In this case, yes! Therefore the gif is safe. If it includes Giant Pistol anda little bit more then it,then no. I think the image is safe. One-Winged Hawk 23:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing I note looking over the page is there is a lot of Gifs on it... That slows down the loading of the page a lot and the image loading times. It might be best if we decide what are the most important ones and have just a few to avoid problems. Thats what I advise otherwise. (Again, no guidelines are broken, but the page is getting problematic, may have to change the image guidelines...).One-Winged Hawk 23:51, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Gomu Gomu no Sensuikan / Gum-Gum Submarine
What episode was this attack in again? As far as I can tell, it's not originally from the manga.--KnightoftheSea 00:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's from Episode 98 - BTW... where's the name from? Luffy only says "Gomu Gomu no...", then there's a cut back to Barbarossa and Nami. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 23:41, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Gomu Gomu no Jet Rifle - only spotted in the TV show against Bruno?
I've rushed through the manga - all chapters that showed Luffy going Gear 2. Have I missed that attack in the manga or is that anime-only? It's not in the fights against Bruno, nor Lucci, Moria, the PX-1, Mari&Sonia, Minotaurus, Magellan and Hannyabal so far. Against PX-1 there's a Gigant Rifle. Could Oda have left out the Jet Rifle after the animators used it in Episode 271? -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 23:35, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Afro Luffy and Gomu attacks in his fight against Foxy
Even if I agree that Afro Luffy is not really a Form related to his devil fruit power. I don't think that the 2 attacks (Gomu Gomu no Hook and Gomu Gomu no Flail) that were in this paragraph shall be put in Luffy's page : That's why I think a better solution than deleting this paragraph and put it in Luffy page has to be found. Kdom 22:32, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * they are clearly using his Gomu Gomu no mi power, so saying it is not related his not true
 * Another evidence is their name
 * They would be the only attacks that would be in Luffy page

In that case, the form should go on Luffy's page, and the attacks under Gomu Gomu no Mi, within the "Situational Cases" paragraph. The Pope 02:35, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * While the afro does nothing, most of what he does while wearing the afro involves the Devil Fruit. It's generally classified by most to be a form related to the Devil Fruit due to these. Its basically a conjunction.


 * The Nightmare form is a technical exception due to Luffy not using any original attacks while in it, but the Afro one ain't.Mugiwara Franky 02:56, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Luffy's other forms, Mizu Luffy and the Gears, are made possible by the Devil Fruit; that's why they're listed on there. As far as Afro Luffy goes, those are just situational attacks in which he happened to be wearing the Afro; it's not like wearing an Afro was something that could only happen due to the Gomu Gomu no Mi's powers.

Maybe a good compromise would be if "Afro Luffy" was listed as a section beneath "Situational Cases" instead of "Forms". The Pope 03:25, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * The thing about the forms section is that it was made solely for the intention of the various forms that Luffy came up with, whether they be Afro or otherwise. The opening paragraph kinda notes it that some of the forms are cosmetic. The situational section was kinda made for those situations wherein Luffy is given a disability and forced to compensate.Mugiwara Franky 03:39, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

The Translation section.
No thats not how they pronouce "gum".

And "Gum" may be a rubber, but its also a food product, like bubblegum, which is more then likely what their referencing in the name originally. Gum is more famous for stretching then rubber and as a concept is a name thats easier to handle. Why choose "Gum" when "rubber" already is the translation and not everyone would think: gum = a type of rubber. One-Winged Hawk 07:59, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

i think luffy needs to become much stronger for the upcoming events


 * I didn't see this, Yay, I get to chime in with facts again!
 * Ok first, No. No no no, you're wrong. "Gum" is the name given to natural Rubber to distinguish it from Synthetic rubber. It's a fact, look it up. Type "Gum Rubber" into Google, you'll find tons of product listings for it, they sell it, because it exists.
 * Second. I don't know how to tell you this, but Literally Every  Single  Solitary  Japanese-To-English dictionary  on the entire Internet lists "Gum" as one of the actual Translations of "Gomu", usually "Gum" is actually ahead of "Rubber" for the Katakana Entry. Usually places say "護謨 (Gomu In Kanji) = Rubber" and "ゴム (Gomu in Katakana) = Gum". Oda writes it in Katakana, not Kanji.
 * Furthermore, the Japanese Wikipedia page says RIGHT OFF THE BAT "今日の英語で gum、フランス語で gomme、ドイツ語で Gummi" Or "Today, the word is written in English as 'gum', French as 'gomme' and German as 'Gummi'." Here, see for yourself.
 * So, lets recap:
 * 1: Gum Rubber IS an actual type of Rubber, it really is. You can look it up. It means "Natural Rubber".
 * 2: ALL Japanese-English dictionaries list "Gum" as an actual translation of "Gomu", most of the time listing "Gum" ahead of "Rubber" for the Katakana characters for it. The same characters Oda uses.
 * 3: The Japanese Wikipedia even lists "Gum" as the English Translation.
 * 4: Most other languages that aren't English also derive their word for "Rubber" from "Gum" Just like Japan did. Spanish: Goma, French: Gomme, German: Gummi, Albanian: Gomë, Croatian: Guma, Italian: Gomma
 * I know Viz and 4kids used "Gum" so everyone likes to hate on it, but it's moronic to keep ignoring all of this fact.
 * They simply went with "Gum" because it's Phonically similar to "Gomu".
 * I'm ignoring that "Gum is more famous for stretching" bit because it's just so ridiculous it's not even funny.DemonRin 08:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, it's been about a week and nobody has shot back. Does that mean I can put the information back in?DemonRin 22:07, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Umm, you've made your point Rin however writing down "For this reason, universally, Every  Single  Solitary  Japanese-To-English dictionary  both online and off, list "Gum" as one of the translations of "Gomu"." might come off as standoffish. There's kinda a limit to how far one can write something before it starts sounding snobby and know it all.Mugiwara Franky 20:35, August 7, 2010 (UTC)