Talk:Gecko Moria

Correct article title?
Shouldn't this article really be titled "Gecko Moria"? Since when does English words have two "k"'s in them and end with an "h"? Gekko Moriah sounds as stupid as Jinbei, Zolo or Hordi.

It was confirmed in a databook. Gekko, with two k's means moonlight. It was Gecko Moria up until we learned the correct spelling from the databook. 23:04, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

But why does his last name end with an "h"? Even in the romanization it doesn't do that.

Dunno. I don't come up with the romanizations, I just move the pages. If I had to guess, maybe so it could look similar to the English female name Moriah (Mo-rai-uh), but that's just me. 23:13, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

@Sewil, there's no need for an actual reason. Why "Luffy" and not "Lufy", "Luffi", or "Ruffy"? We don't know, Oda chooses what looks best to him.

@sff9, But he never romanized it as "Moriah" to begin with, but to "Moria", so who came up with the "Moriah" name?

I don't think it was ever romanized as Moria, that's just how the scanlators decided to spell it. Oda comes up with all romanizations. 23:53, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. And no-one has yet used "Moriah". So why is it there I ask?

Because it was first seen in a databook, and he hasn't appeared since his name was romanized so there's no reason to use it. Moriah is there because it is correct. What we (and scanlators) do is we take the spelling closest to how the name is pronounced and use that until we get a romanization, if we do at all. 00:21, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Oda didn't choose it, sff9. Whichever assistant worked on the databook did. SeaTerror (talk) 03:12, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

And Oda approved on it. 03:14, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

@ST, whatever, my point was there's no need for an explanation. (Though, in this case, I think the romanization is too original for it not to be Oda's. Nevermind anyway, we'll never know.)

Reviving this. One of the limited edition set of cards given out to the initial 2 million Film GOLD theatergoers has this guy's name romanized as Gecko Moria. Pretty sure these cards are checked and approved by Oda himself since he drew the illustation used on the Joker cards specifically to be included in the set (first link) and he advertised them in one of his WSJ end comments (second link). But it's up to you guys to decide wether we should prioritize the databook over these cards or not. Right now, I'm for Gecko Moria. 23:36, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

I'm all for Gecko Moria. Meshack (talk) 06:59, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should stick with the databook. 07:03, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Almost all of the Japanese material use "Gecko Moria", not "Gekko Moriah" and even the English material use Gecko Moria. Also, on Pudding's talk page, SeaTerror said, "Besides everybody knows databooks are almost never written by the actual mangaka anyway." so why should we use what the used even though Oda is not likely the one doing the databook? Meshack (talk) 07:12, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Because Oda tells the writers, who are usually his assistants, what to put in it. It's hard to judge names with merchandise. I'm going to get nit-picky here for a second. He may have done the art, but we don't know if Oda did the lettering. Personally, after the Perona debacle, I'm hesitant to use merchandise as a source for names. 07:26, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

The only material that doesn't use Gecko Moria is the databook. Databooks can have misprints. In Dragon Ball, a big debate is how old Bra is. One of the databooks said Age 778 and other databooks afterwards said Age 780. Same thing could have happened here. Just as JapaneseOPfan said, with the cards for Film Gold, since Oda drew the cards and he could have written those names or told someone to write the names. Meshack (talk) 07:33, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Your point is well taken, but I'm still skeptical.Let's let others weigh in. 07:36, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Update: Alright, so since DP mentiond Perona, I checked through the cards again and here are a few other interesting spellings I found.

(Don't match with what we currently use) (Debated spelling but matches with what we currently use) I read through the arguments on Perona's talk page, and I actually think it wouldn't hurt to change her name to Perhona as well, but that's a different story. I'll check my volumes when I get home 2 weeks later, since they usually list important characters within that volume with their names romanized at the beginning of the book. Maybe I can find a romanization for Moria then also.
 * Perona -> Perhona
 * Bon Kurei -> Bon Clay
 * Edward Weevil

Either way, since the Shichibukai clearly have an animal-in-name theme going on, I think we should definitely move this article to Gecko. (Even Law [TORAfaruga - Tiger], BUGgy and Blackbeard [Marshall Ferret] fit the theme if you really wanted to make the connection.) 08:17, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Using merchandise is the worst possible thing we can do for a name spelling. SeaTerror (talk) 09:42, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

That is not a valid point, ST. Did you know a databook is merchandise? Meshack (talk) 09:53, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

There's a difference between random merch that Oda has no idea it even exists and limited edition merch that Oda was personally involved in with the making of and advertisement. 11:04, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

I still don't trust merch for names. 11:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Then by that logic we shouldn't be using manga either since that is also merchandise, Meshack. SeaTerror (talk) 11:23, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

For anyone reading this who might need a strong example of why we SHOULDN'T trust games, Fighting for One Piece accidentally used 'Flanky' for Franky, and a scan of Unlimited Adventure used 'Lobin' for Robin.

That being said, I've frequently and exclusively seen "Perhona" used in all available romanizations. The only instance of Perona was the official English translation. If that's the case, we should use Bon Clay over Bon Kurei, which I'm for (ignoring the wanted poster, which I know someone's gonna mention). 12:11, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

If databooks shouldn't be trusted, why merchandise should instead? After all, isn't just a matter of setting priorities? Manga > SBS > databooks > rest. Databooks are at least published by Jump, meaning by the same people who works on the manga. Aren't merchandise made by other companies? I would be surprised if they even care of using the correct romanization... the only thing they seems to care about are the 3 sizes of female characters (which are then multiplied by 2).

"Using merchandise is the worst possible thing we can do for a name spelling. " - SeaTerror

Every piece of material that uses Gekko Moriah, like I said above, is the databook from 2010. Other material uses Gecko Moria. Meshack (talk) 14:03, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Leave it as it is. I really can't trust any merch as a spelling source, the only thing it always is is inconsistent. I believe that the best course of action is to wait for Moriah's reintroduction in the manga, because I believe the odds are high that he will get his name spelled out for us, just like Doffy did. 15:28, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we should leave it as it is. Merchandise as a whole can be inconsistent but with Moria, Gecko Moria is the most consistent Meshack (talk) 15:51, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Unlike games, these cards were made specifically to be handed out to FILM GOLD theatergoers along with One Piece Volume 777 (which, btw, is a part of Jump Comics like every other normal volume, databook, and color walk). On top of this, unlike other normal merch that we would typically reject as a source, these cards are advertised both on the official One Piece website and on the last page of Volume 777. And I repeat, they are limited edition goods that include 3 separate illustrations drawn by Oda himself specifically to be printed onto the Joker cards and the box containing these cards. There is clearly a difference between this and games or any other merch, which are entirely produced by people unrelated to Oda and Shueisha.

Also, just to clarify- in Japanese, both Gekko Moriah/Gecko Moria and Perona/Perhona are written and pronounced the exact same way, so that isn't an issue here. 22:39, August 9, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Meshack (talk) 04:43, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

The title should be left the way it is. Its been like that for ages after all. Dinosel (talk) 07:44, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

If "Gekko Moriah" is based off of a gecko, why is the title gekko? Meshack (talk) 09:11, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

DP said "Gekko" means moonlight. I didn't see the reciept, but then again, what's our solid evidence that Moriah is based on a gecko animal? 12:11, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Just speculation. The whole animal theme thing which doesn't actually exist since it was never stated by Oda. If anything his animal theme is bat based considering that's what his main attacks look like. SeaTerror (talk) 17:24, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Gekko Moriah. Komori means bat. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:31, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Right. So there's no reason to think Gecko is more logical than Gekko. I would argue the opposite. It's just about what sources you trust. Personally, I think the Databook made a mistake. But for the sake of consistancy and precedence, I say go with the Databook over the cards. I'd say the same thing about 'Big Mam': A typo that we have to accept as canon following our order of procedor. Thank God they fixed it.

The bigger issue is Perhona. What's more trusted: all the merchandise, or the Viz translation? 18:38, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Komori is in Gecko Moria too: Gecko Moria. If there is no animal theme, then why is it on the wiki? I'm pretty sure Gekko Moriah is a misprint, like Ryuzaki said, it was Big Mam but it was suppose to be Big Mom. All material but the databook uses Gecko Moria. On the Perhona situation, whatever is used more I guess. Don't you guys dispise the English translations? Meshack (talk) 07:57, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

You've got a really weird definition of 'all' https://imgur.com/a/psLjg (One Piece 15th Anniversary: Dive to Grand World); https://imgur.com/a/5VMcX (from the One Piece Exhibition, which revealed official bounties for Ace and Bepo) 104.238.32.55 09:22, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

Looking at the cards for Film Gold, everyone's name is the exact same as the ones we have (names we consider the correct spelling) except Bon Clay, Perhona, and Gecko Moria. Again, the cards are more recent than the databooks and the cards are/were done by Oda Meshack (talk) 20:13, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

OP 10 is more reliable than the cards. Hell we even say Albion wasn't captured due to his bounty on OP 10. SeaTerror (talk) 21:07, August 11, 2016 (UTC)

A few points to consider: In short, keep the current name. 01:29, August 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * As the AWC said, "Gekko Moriah" is actually also used in the other books as well as the OP 10 event, which Oda contributed in and gave some new official bounties.
 * Databooks > Merch. Apart from the Joker cards, all of the pictures used in the cards are just taken straight from the manga, anyway.
 * The cards also include the ever-persistent "Bon Clay" error (Oda has spelled it "Kurei" and it makes no sense otherwise given the theme naming) and the odd "Perhona" spelling, both of which are common misspellings in the One Piece video games (which get a lot of names wrong.)
 * It's really not in our best interests to go and change every instance of "Gekko Moriah" based on something as minor as this, as it could easily result in having to change them all back whenever he reappears in the manga.

You make a strong case on every point except Perhona, but I guess that should be taken to her talk. 03:15, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

As it has been stated, keept it Moriah for now. 06:45, August 14, 2016 (UTC)

Seems like we're done here. It stays as "Gekko Moriah". 13:31, August 14, 2016 (UTC)

I'm still iffy about it but we're finished here... for now. Now let's have a discussion about Perhona! Meshack (talk) 14:37, August 14, 2016 (UTC)

Bounty active again
Since Moriah was revoked of his Shichibukai title, isn't his bounty active again once Doflamingo told him that the World Government dismissed him for deeming him too weak to carry on his Shichibukai title? I mean, even though he is not seen again since then nor heard of I think there should be the reference where he is deprived of the Shichibukai near the one showing his (former) bounty from chapter 455.--212.150.174.180 13:19, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

Until we have evidence that he's still alive, we can't say his bounty is active again.

13:24, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

We actually do. One of the databooks mentioned that he was spotted a few times either in Paradise or the New World. It should already be on there. What we don't know is if the Marines want to downplay his escape and retracted his bounty so they wouldn't look incompetent. 14:15, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

They couldn't reinstate his bounty since they already had the newspapers print that he died during the war. 21:42, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

If you really want to get technical, then his bounty would have been temporarily reinstated from the time his status was rescinded until the time Doflamingo should have killed him. And did the papers actually print the story or was that just what they were going to do assuming everything went to plan? 17:59, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Didn't Perona read that Moriah died in the paper? I thought that was the source we had for his alleged death.

18:42, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, it was in chapter 592. I only checked that after I posted. 18:48, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

So are we dropping this topic, since he's been reported dead and they can't have an active bounty on a dead guy?

18:55, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. He's dead on paper, which means his bounty is retracted, assuming he hasn't done anything to draw attention to himself and get a new bounty or his old one reinstated. 23:50, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Birthday
Hi im from China, and DEEP BLUE Chinese version said Moriah's birthday is Sep 6th. Here's the picture.

掘井者 (talk) 02:12, June 13, 2014 (UTC)掘井者

Escape from Marineford
In SBS Volume 71 Oda seems to heavily imply that Absalom helped Moriah escape from Doflamingo. It fits with Doflamingo's statement that Moriah just went "poof." Even though it's technically just implication at the moment, I was wondering if it should be mentioned on the page somewhere. -- Jo the Marten  ಠ_ಠ  00:10, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

It's speculation, so it shouldn't be added on the article yet. 00:12, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

When speaking of "free-pen Absa" in the SBS Oda mentioned that Absa had to do with Moriah going "poof" so yeah it should be added if it hasn't been already

Grievous67 (talk) 20:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

Status
Shouldn't Moriah's status be "unknown" rather than "alive"? There's conflicting info on whether he's dead or not. Blumenblatt (talk) 03:24, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Oda said in a SBS "Some People have seen him alive in the New World" so let's just leave it at that

Grievous67 (talk) 19:58, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

West Blue?

It was stated Thriller Bark was originally from the WB, wouldn´t he be listed as a WB character then?Buttbug (talk) 02:29, December 21, 2015 (UTC)

Romanization
According to Chapter 925, his name has now been romanized as Gecko Moria. (MissVampy13 (talk) 07:51, November 23, 2018 (UTC))

It was actually romanized as Gekko Moria, but yeah. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 08:32, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

That was Jaimini's translation. I know some have different variations of names being translated/romanized, but the Chinese raw showed "Gecko" not Gekko. (MissVampy13 (talk) 08:45, November 23, 2018 (UTC))

We'd better wait for Japanese raw.  Cdwp 22  (talk)   09:17, November 23, 2018 (UTC)

Obviously says GECKO MORIA.Change it change it Meshack (talk) 06:40, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

RAW confirms Gecko Moria. 45.56.153.137 13:54, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, Japanese version spells his name as "Gecko Moria" (here). But we still don't know how it will be spelled in a volume version. Same goes for Shiryu/Shiliew.  Cdwp 22  (talk)   14:20, November 26, 2018 (UTC)

How are you gonna say wait for Japanese chapter but then say wait for the volume?? Just change the name Meshack (talk) 07:06, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

It's the same case as Levely and Nefertari. Maybe those discussions shouldn't even start before the volume release. Rhavkin (talk) 07:16, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

Levely was another case because there was no other romanization. Moria/Moriah, Shiryu/Shiliew and Nefertari/Nefeltari were romanized in different ways in manga and databooks but I think we should go with the newest names unless someone has objections. Then we should wait for volume release.  Cdwp 22  (talk)   08:54, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

All right, the volume spells his name as "Gecko Moria". Same goes for Shiliew (romanized as "Shiryu" both in the magazine and the volume release). 22:14, March 5, 2019 (UTC)

My bot can make the changes in a few hours Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 23:23, March 5, 2019 (UTC)