Forum:Animated gif's in the infobox

Good day everyone!
Straight to the point: I think we should not use animated pictures for infoboxes (and set a limit to the size of them in general).

Our current Image Guidelines are pretty clear that we should use gif's sparingly and only under certain circumstances:


 * "Firstly, animations are much larger files then images and larger files take time to load on a page. If there are several animations or a particularly large animation, then lag may occur on the page in some form (be it page loading time or just image loading time)."

Personally, my computer has no problems loading them. But the point is: this does not apply to everyone. We have to consider that unregistered visitors get the full load of ads on top. I know that some don't care (as long as it doesn't affect them), but try to put yourself in their place for a second. After all this is a wiki from One Piece fans for One Piece fans, and not only for those who can handle the traffic.


 * "Having a animation simply of two people talking is an example of animations which don't belong on a page, as a single frame and text can describe this action without any problems."

This rule is probably violated the most when I browse through our gif section. Here are some examples:

Gif's that don't add anything, despite being animated:,  ,  ,  ,  ,  ,

And then we have gif's that actually show something, but are completely unnecessary to support the text. Keep in mind that gif's are meant to show things a normal image can't:,  ,  ,  ,. Don't let yourself be fooled, while they are indeed "nice to look at", they are not necessary (but still come at a cost).

In addition we have gif's that are (no offense) of extremely low quality and sometimes even contain subs: (this one even has credits of the creator on it), ,  ,  ,  ,  (probably the worst of all).

And finally we have gifs that are really helpful to display something, but in turn are monstrous in size: (3,195,430 bytes !),  (4,718,758 bytes!!!!),  (5,390,192 bytes....).

What I'm trying to say is:

Infobox pictures are big by nature (240px to fill the box nicely), however gif's work best when they are smaller in size:,  ,.

My suggestion:

We avoid using gif's for infoboxes, but place smaller versions where it fits on the article (if it is necessary). That way we have the best of both worlds. Deciding on a general rule would be helpful to keep the quality consistent, like a set size restriction (other wiki's already enforce such a rule, at least for gifs)

Discussion
IOU 20:53, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

If so many GIFs are useless, low quality and just have no place on this wikia, then they should be completely deleted 21:13, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

It seems that YazzyDream resized some of the ones mentioned in this post, I'd however still like to see a general discussion about the usage of them, particularly in the infoboxes. 11:31, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I like them. Getting a quick and better image of what happened is helpfull. 11:34, July 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Excatly..but the no. of images on the each page can be compromised for the gifs:)
 * I have no problem with gifs that actually show something happening (like the Luffy vs. Usopp one), my problem is with the gifs that show something that could easily be shown in a standard picture. i.e. the mera mera one. -- 11:40, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Gifs like the Mera Mera one and Jango with Fullbody dancing, of course they should be out. But in general, gifs are a good option. 11:43, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Its against image guidlines to put GIFs in infoboxes. SeaTerror 20:11, July 10, 2011 (UTC)

Sea Terror is on our side, a miracle, now I think Jinbe should begin the poll 12:31, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

GIFs should only be on attack pages like a devil fruit page and not as the infobox. SeaTerror 23:18, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

@ST

Could you quote the paragraph where it is stated? (gifs in the infobox) 21:47, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

The forum died out and this problem still ahsn't been discussed properly, we really have no need for gifs, there are only a few ones, I think that its best to just get rid of them all, not only the ones in infoboxes since they aren't helpful at all, their quality sucks and a normal well shot picture is just as good, we don't need to be fancy and have them just for the show since this is a wikia! 10:45, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Possible voting options
I think arguments have been made, a vote is necessary to solve this matter.

Suggested voting options:

Gif's in General:


 * 1) Leave everything as it is (no restrictions concerning size, quality and subs)
 * 2) Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size etc).
 * 3) Remove gif's altogether

Gif's in the infobox (given option 1. or 2. make it)


 * 1) Allow gif's everywhere.
 * 2) Gif's shouldn't be used in the infobox, but everywhere else.
 * 3) Gif's should only be used in the attacks/abilities section.

This is what I can filter from the discussion. If you have something to add, please say so. Else I will open the poll on Sunday. (And to be precise, just to prevent possible bitching about the poll later on: This is no official vote, just a brief brainstorming to cover everyones suggestions/opinions) 11:10, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

GIFs are only needed on the attack pages. They should also never be used in infoboxes. SeaTerror 18:01, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, option added. 18:07, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the "Add size restrictions to the image guidelines, avoid subs in the gif" the first restriction is more important then the second, because for some scenes is hard to find a raw clip, since most of the episode are hard-subbed. Regarding the discussion, I think we should use gif for what he can't be represented by a static picture, so whatever is the results of this forum we should consider the deletion of some pointless gifs, as pointed out by pandawarrior. Another intelligent restriction, would be the number of gifs in a page (or the overall size total, that's better) which will prevent page overload. About the infobox, I don't see anything wrong to use a gif in the profile, especially if you would have put the gif in the page anyway while using a static picture in the infobox (in this case there would be an image in surplus, right?). The only drawback I see in this case, is that if the gif is put in the infobox, then it should have an acceptable quality so it will be probably have a big size, but if that's the case then there is no need to put a restriction of using gif in infoboxes, because the gif size restriction and the quality restriction for profile are sufficient, because these two already implies not using gif for most of cases.

Obviously we would have to discuss the restrictions in detail, but there is no point in doing so if the possible result is to get rid of them altogether. I added that to the voting option in question.

For gifs in the infobox, well as I said: to properly fill an infobox the pic needs to be 240 pixels. Gif's of that size are huge and take time to load. Some editors have the skills to create lightweight gifs of that size, but the majority of them really don't (some are even obvious avatars from fan forums). Gif's in other parts of an article can be smaller in size, because they nicely adapt to the text - they don't have to fill anything.

Also don't forget that in theory, we don't need gifs at all. A well written text can take care of everything, and not every little thing needs to be visualized. You know I'm not a image-nazi and I don't have anything against a good number of them, but the difference in gifs is that they come at a cost.

But whatever, if you or anyone else want to add something to the poll, try to formulate what you want to change. Thank you! 18:58, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

For now, I don't have anything to add, and to summary what I said above if I vote for "Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size etc)" and "Allow gif's everywhere." that implies that in the 90% of cases a gif isn't allowed to be used in the infobox for the reasons you have said, so I don't really have to vote for the other 2 options if the size and the quality are the only problem.

If you vote for "Add restrictions" and "allow gifs everywhere" then you just have to live with the fact that infobox gifs might not fill the infobox nicely, thats all.. 19:23, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Official vote regarding gifs in general & gif placement
VOTE ENDED, THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION. Here we go. Requirements as always, registered since 3 months / 300+ edits. Place your vote under the option that represents your opinion the best.

The vote ends in one week, 09.08.2011 (possible extension to 2 weeks in case of a tie)

Gif's in General:

1. Leave everything as it is (no restrictions concerning size, quality and subs)

2. Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size, quality, purpose etc).
 * 11:17, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) (we have still to decide what restriction, haven't we?)
 * 12:34, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) MasterDeva 15:48, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC) (only quality. Nothing wrong with size or subs.
 * 19:17, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

3. Remove gif's altogether

Gif's in the infobox (given option 1. or 2. make it)

1. Allow gif's everywhere.
 * 1) (the fact they're allowed, doesn't mean they can be used every-time)

2. Gif's shouldn't be used in the infobox, but everywhere else.
 * 12:34, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Bastian964 22:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

3. Gif's should only be used in the attacks/abilities section.
 * 11:17, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 11:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * 19:17, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Post voting discussion
@Leviathan

Restrictions will be discussed in detail in case people vote for it. Size of gifs, allowing subs, mb restriction etc. This option basically says "yes, we need set guidelines concerning gifs" 12:15, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with sizes and subs in gifs. Especially subs. SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Voting results
Right, time is up and we have a clear decision:


 * The community wants restrictions to gif's (in some form, details follow).
 * Gif's are now only allowed in the attacks/ability section.

But please, don't execute anything of the above before this topic is completely solved, thanks!

Restrictions to gif's discussion
Right, the majority wants some sort of restrictions to animated gif's, so lets discuss possible options.


 * Limit concerning px size (100 px, 190 px, 240 px etc.)
 * Limit concerning byte (1.000.000, 2.000.000, 3.000.000 etc.)
 * Subtitles
 * Credits of the creator
 * What should and should not be displayed (we already decided to only use them in the attack section, which kinda affects that already...but just to make things clear)

That's what I can think of for now. Of course each restriction comes with a "leave it - no restrictions" option.

We will need a vote here as well, so please formulate your suggestions precise and clear (preferably no wall of text).

Thanks! 09:15, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Just to specifiy, on top of suggesting other aspects, please comment on the ones I already made. Like, suggesting suitable (votable) px sizes, byte sizes etc. 09:54, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

My opinion on those: Note: we have decided to use gif only in the attack/abilities section. That's technically prevent the use of "system gifs", I means if an admins decides to upload an animated buttons, he technically cannot do that, (I don't know why he should do that, but it's a possibility). So this vote should regards the gif in articles, doesn't it? And of course this affects the gifs we use for articles.
 * PX size: if a gif is resized it won't be show the animation, so the gif should be upload with the size we are going to use to begin with.
 * Byte limit: more than a byte limit per gif, I think it's more useful to set an overall limit to the overall size of the gifs in a page, for example one gif of 4 MB -> acceptable, 10 gifs of 1 MB -> bad choice. But I don't really like the to "set a limit" it should be common sense. And about this we should know the average dimension of a gif (of course smaller is better)
 * Subs: I'm against to forbid a gif due the subs. The subs in gifs are generally useless, since we are going to use action gifs. When not-subbed gifs are available, we should prefer them (unless the subs are necessary), but setting a "no sub" rule is counter-productive and not necessary, we will only lost some gifs.
 * Credits: if the creator is an user on this wiki, he can write in the summary that he is the creator. But the licensing is still Gif (he can't use CC-BY-SA) and he still has to provide the source.
 * Subject: well I don't know... : ).
 * You don't want a px limit (if you do, make a clear and votable suggestions - like xy pixel)
 * You want to set an overall size limit when it comes to gifs as a whole on the article. Okay, please provide precise, votable restrictions.
 * No new suggestion for subs, the option to allow them will be there anyway
 * No idea what you are saying with the templates. So no new suggestions - it is still allow the "branding" on the gif itself, or not.

Okay, this is just for me so I don't miss any of your suggestions regarding the poll. If I did, please say so. 10:56, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Several days have passed, final bump before entering the next phase. 13:02, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Since there seem to be no further suggestions, here are my votable suggestions for the official poll.

Pixel size of gifs (remember that the size can't be changed once uploaded):
 * Precisely 100px, not more.
 * Precisely 190px, not more.
 * Precisely 240px, not more.
 * Anything between 100px and 240px is fine.
 * No px restriction.

Byte size of gifs (reference, a regular picture is around 153.600 byte, or 150 kb)
 * Not more than 2.000.000.
 * Not more than 4.000.000.
 * Not more than 6.000.000.
 * No limit.

Subtitles:
 * Yes, we allow subs in the gif.
 * No, we don't allow subs in the gif.

Creator credits:
 * Yes, we allow credits on the gif.
 * No, we don't allow credits on the gif.

Maximal number of gifs for each page (remember, gifs are now only allowed in the attack/ability section):
 * Maximal one gif for each page, not more.
 * Maximal two gifs for each page, not more.
 * Maximal three gifs for each page, not more.
 * No limit.

Good, now my reasoning for these options.

Pixel: I browsed a few wikis and their policy's about gifs. I have seen 100 px and 190 px. 240px is the suitable size for our infoboxes (just so you can imagine the size). I will add images with these sizes in hidden boxes in the official vote, so people can get a good impression.

Bytes: Most of our current gif's vary between 1.000.000 - 2.000.000 bytes, a few are up to 4.000.000 bytes. I added 6.000.000 because some hand-picked gifs had a size of 5.500.000 bytes +.

Subtitles: Yeah, well. I thought about adding the option "go with subtitles until one without is available". But gif's are not like regular pictures which can be easily replaced by anyone. Gif's require certain skills and programs to create, and even if someone voluntarily offers to try his best to keep them updated, times change and so do editors. There is no guarantee that we will have always someone around to take care of them.

Creator edits: No biggie here, can't think of another option.

Maximal number of gif's: Leviathans suggestion, hope it is covered to your liking.

Right, I will start the official vote on Saturday, unless some major problem pops up. If you have any suggestions, please feel free to provide them. If you do, give me clear, votable options. Options I can add to the poll, or altered versions of the already suggested options. Thank you! :)-- 18:55, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

The ratio suggested of 1 for every 4-6 still images is dated... Our pages were a fraction of the size when the animated gif's section was written, so I'm not surprised this is in vote. But at the time someone dumped a load of animated gifs on us and internet access speed was not that fast. The original plan someone had was to have a gif for every attack, which was nice until we pointed out Luffy's DF attack list was huge. We were looking at about... 40... Images or so. One-Winged Hawk 20:42, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

I already said it in the vote. The only thing that matters is the quality of the GIF and nothing else. SeaTerror 05:53, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Bump. 21:19, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

My doubts:
 * credits: I don't understand what's the problem with the credits or what do you mean by "credits"... Can you show me an example of how the gif page will be?
 * maximal number of gifs: well it's a possible restriction (maybe add more options), but my suggestion was to set an overall gifs' bytes dimensions... because I think the purpose of limiting the gifs in a page is to don't overload it (and make the connection slow to some readers), so I think it's more logical use the size as a delimeter instead of the number. Let's say that we decide to limit to 2 gifs per page: there is an huge gap to use 2 gifs of 1MB each instead of using 2 gifs of 5MB each. See my point?

So possible options are:
 * 6MB
 * 8MB
 * 10MB
 * 12MB
 * 14MB

Anyway we need for both this point and the other one (about the size) we have to show some dimension examples, like "this gif is X MB, this is Y MB and this one is Z MB" because even me don't have a clear idea of the average dimension. (I hope we will not vote for a limit that basically prevent the use of any gif without realizing it).

Sigh, I was going to open the poll while you posted this, damn edit conflict. Anyway.

About credits:

Watch the gif till its end, the creator signed the last image of the gif (@smoke).

About your MB suggestion, I understand. But can we please reduce the number of votable options? Imagine every editor picks a different size because there are so many. Are you okay to reduce it to 3 options?

Like:


 * 6.000.000 byte


 * 10.000.000 byte


 * 14.000.000 byte

As for the maximal number of gifs, I will leave it in because gifs don't only strain your comp but also your eye. We already decided that they are only usable in the attacks/ability section, so restricting the number would be a good idea (or not, depending on the vote).

Also I will try my best to provide examples so the editors can relate to it. 13:26, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, the above 3 options collide with the other restrictions, so it would be like:


 * 8.000.000 byte


 * 12.000.000 byte


 * 16.000.000 byte

Actually, with this "overall restriction", individual gif restrictions are even more important. Please reply if you are fine with the above leviathan, or if I miss anything. I would like to open the poll today, people had ages to contribute already (and I'm sure they want to finish this topic) 14:01, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Ah I see! Well about the credits, please write if we will get rid of the present gifs with credits or if we simply won't accept new one anymore. Ok for the size options, and as I said it will be helpful to put some example of gif's size (only the link is enough, no need to add the whole gif). Last thing: if anyone can tell me which software is the best for creating/editing a gif I will appreciate it and I will also help on this matter!

Gif restriction details - official vote
Necessary requirements to vote: 300 edits, registered since (at least) 3 months.

CLOSED

This vote will end in one week (27.08.2012), with a possible extension to 2 weeks (in case of a tie or when less than 5 regulars participated). Please place your vote under the option that suits your opinion the best. I did not include "neutral" or "I don't care" options because then the poll would get too huge and confusing (there are already a lot of options to choose from). If you want to point out that you don't care or that your opinion is neutral, please use the discussion below. Thanks a lot!

General information about gif's
Advisable to read before you go and place your vote:


 * The pixel size of a gif can't be changed once uploaded, unlike normal images. It is necessary to download the image, alter it, and re-upload it. Not every editor is capable of doing that, especially because you need the suitable program (and of course: time).
 * Pixel size and byte size go hand in hand. A smaller pixel size affects the byte size. The reason why we still have to vote for byte sizes is the number of images that make the actual animated gif. A 100 pixel sized gif can still be massive when it consists of over 80 individual pictures.
 * Please take a look at our animated gif's category to get a feeling for the voting options. We don't have that many, so it is definitely worth a look.: Category:Animated Gifs

Pixel size of gifs:

 * Precisely 100px, not more.


 * Precisely 190px, not more.
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 07:12, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Precisely 240px, not more.


 * Anything between 100px and 240px is fine.
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   11:14, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * No px restriction.
 * 1) (Of course...)
 * 2) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Byte size of gifs
Again, please browse through the gif category to get a better feeling


 * Not more than 2.000.000 (equals round about 13 of our regular .jpg pictures)


 * Not more than 4.000.000. (equals round about 26 of our regular .jpg pictures)
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Not more than 6.000.000. (equals round about 39 of our regular .jpg pictures)

NOTE: The overall page limit still overrules this vote. Ex.: A gif can't be bigger than the 12.000.000 page limit.
 * No individual limit.
 * 1) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) One-Winged Hawk 07:12, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10:47, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10:47, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Maximal allowed size of gifs combined on a page

 * 8.000.000 byte


 * 12.000.000 byte
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * 16.000.000 byte


 * No limit
 * 1) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) One-Winged Hawk 07:13, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10:47, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10:47, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Subtitles:

 * Yes, we allow fansubs in the gif.
 * 1) (allowing them doesn't mean we want them... beside it's quite impossible to find some scene without subs)
 * 2) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, we don't allow fansubs in the gif.
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   11:14, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) (Ruin the picture)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 07:13, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Creator credits:
Imagine the gif would display: "Made by Jinbe"


 * Yes, we allow credits on the gif.
 * 1) once again allowing does not mean wanting it


 * No, we don't allow credits on the gif.
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   11:14, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) You can just add your name in the gif's page.
 * 3) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Maximal number of gifs for each page
Remember, gifs are now only allowed in the attack/ability section.


 * Maximal one gif for each page, not more.


 * Maximal two gifs for each page, not more.


 * Maximal three gifs for each page, not more.
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 07:14, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * No limit.
 * 1) -- Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   11:23, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) (Changed vote)
 * 1) (Changed vote)

Keep the right to delete a gif even if it meets all restrictions
(Subjective quality deemed as too low, not necessary to depict something etc.)


 * Yes, reserve the right to delete gifs (community decision depending on the case)
 * 10:59, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pi ec e • En ri k •     talk   co   11:14, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 05:07, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) so unuseful ones can be deleted to
 * 22:57, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, as long as the restrictions are met everything is fine
 * 1) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) SeaTerror 21:51, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Post voting discussion 2
Bump 10:48, August 21, 2011 (UTC) Bump 20:22, September 1, 2011 (UTC) Last bump 11:26, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Some thoughts: 1. Okay.
 * For the first point I'd like to vote for "anything between 190px and 240px", but I haven't decide yet.
 * For the second point, "not allowing" means get rid of them or simply not accept them anymore? (and converting the old one of course and if possible).
 * For the last point, is it needed? I Mean even if we don't vote on that, it like for normal pics, if it's useless we get rid of it. If you think about it, voting for the second option means that as long the gif meets the requirement I can upload every gif I want and nobody can delete it... please explain what did you mean with the last point.

2. There is no need to delete every gif, just simply not using them is fine. Maybe someone can alter them according to the results of the vote.

3. Gif's run still under the general image guidelines, means the content needs to be related to One Piece, no fanart etc. So no, you can't upload anything you want. The last option is there to leave the right in to delete a gif for reasons you can't specifiy that easily.

Imagine editor A uploads a gif that fulfills every restriction above, but the subjective quality is too low for user B. This vote should simply help with this matter, I added it because SeaTerror pointed out that the "quality" should matter and nothing else. Tho quality is subjective. 11:40, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the point of the no fansubs one. That basically will mean almost no GIFs will be added because its hard to find RAWs now. SeaTerror 21:58, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Gif's are used for special cases, so it's not really an issue if we take our time to get a good gif. It also indirectly ensures that the uploader puts some effort into it (and not simply copies an avatar from a random forum). As how to find raws, there are a lot of dubbed versions out there. Maybe we should ask Klobis or Genocyber where they get their pictures from, because apparently both seem to have absolutely no problem to get their hands on sub-free images (and I doubt they wait for scenes where coincidently no sub is embedded) 22:11, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

You're seriously implying that GIFs with subs in them are bad? SeaTerror 04:59, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

I will point out though I voted for unlimited on the byte, under no circumstance should we have a file that might as well be a muted episode. In others words, I don't want to see something that might as well be a youtube clip. We're not allowed to have youtube clips; its the same for gifs that have that much info in any image of any sort any way. One-Winged Hawk 07:16, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Jinbe, there is also another problem with the voting at the sections about the maximum bytes, if the No Limit wins at the the section for only 1 single gif and the No Limit doesn't win at the page restriction, then the first one is kinda invalid since it is limited, you should change the answer to "Same limit as the page restriction" since it all comes down to the page restriction, even though I don't think that people will add gifs larger than the page restriction, but this is only as a precaution

There is no contradiction, but if you want to add "same as the page restriction" to be more clear ok.

I don't know what you are talking about Rici? 08:44, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Issue sorted on chat, thanks Rici. 09:53, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

'''Right, the vote is over! The results of the second phase:'''

(Again, don't execute any of the above before the whole topic is cleared, thanks!) 23:32, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * The gif's pixel size can vary between 100px and 240px, not more or less.
 * The overall byte limit for gif's on a page is 12.000.000 byte.
 * Fansubs on the gif are forbidden.
 * Creator credits on the gif itself are forbidden
 * The maximum number of gifs on a page are restricted to 3.

Third phase
Unfortunately one voting topic tied, and that is the individual byte size of a gif. As mentioned in the starting post, in case of a tie we extend the vote for an additional week (3.09.2011)

Individual byte size of the gif
The 2 options with the most votes are:


 * Maximal 4.000.000 byte
 * 01:44, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1)  Pacifista15 | Talk | 20:35 1/Sep/2011 UTC
 * 12:15, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 01:36, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * 12:15, September 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 01:36, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

and


 * No limit 
 * 1) One-Winged Hawk 06:54, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) SeaTerror 07:56, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * 08:36, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * 08:36, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Please place your vote under option that represents your opinion the best.

Right, the vote is over.

The individual max. byte size is 4.000.000

Final results

 * The gif's pixel size can vary between 100px and 240px, not more or less.
 * The overall byte limit for gif's on a page is 12.000.000 byte.
 * Fansubs on the gif are forbidden.
 * Creator credits on the gif itself are forbidden.
 * The maximum number of gifs on a page are restricted to 3.
 * The max. individual size of a gif is 4.000.000 byte.
 * Gif's are only allowed in the ability/attack section

Execution
Right, below is a list of gifs that are now against the guidelines. It would be nice if people could help to remove the gif's in question (and replace them with normal pictures in the case of the infobox). The gif's below need deletion or resizing, but in any case they have no place on articles anymore in their current form .

Gifs that violate against subs and credit restrictions (beyond saving, the text is embedded): http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Desert_spada.wmv.GIF ; http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Entei.gif ; http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Gigantopistol.gif http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hiken.gif http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Tyrannosaurus_Animation.gif http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:White_out.wmv.GIF http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zombie_creation.gif

Gifs that violate pixel size or byte size restrictions (can be saved/resized with effort): http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Haki.gif (violates both); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Horu_Horu_no_Mi.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hydra_kurohige-anim.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Jango_Fullbody_Danza_Completa_Big.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kage_Fruit.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kiza_Atack.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kizaru_arrival.gif (violates both); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kuma_makes_Zoro_vanish.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Liberation.wmv.GIF (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Luffy_and_Charloss.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Luffy_fighting_Blugori.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:MeraMeraP.gif (pixel size) ; http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:MokuMokunoMi.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nikyu.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sai_Dai_Rin_Rokuougan.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Slave_arrow.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Suke_Suke_Fruit.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Suna_Suna_no_Mi.gif (pixel size); http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:White_blow.wmv.GIF (pixel size) http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zoro-sanzensekai.gif (pixel size)

Gifs for educational purposes: (please don't delete this one. might be used as a bad example):

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/File:Shishi_Sonson.GIF

Post voting discussion
That's exactly the problem with having limits. The Haki GIF is a perfect example of a high quality great GIF but now because of the limits it is going to be removed. SeaTerror 03:37, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well, if someone is willing to work on the gif's we can use them again, that is why I made two categories. 10:25, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

I altered the image guidIelines accordingly, but feel free to change the wording (@whoever wrote the original guideline).

Also, it would be nice if people could help executing the vote, means removing the gifs violating the restrictions or possibly replacing them with normal pictures. Of course, completely resizing the gifs in question would be amazing, tho that takes some effort (download the gif - manually resizing it - uplaod the altered gif) 13:32, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Result added to the voting results thread. Thanks to whoever prepared the section in advance, appreciated. 13:41, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

I Disapprove Of This

I wish I had heard about this earlier so I could've countered it. There was nothing wrong with those images. They were awesome. Now the everything just feels bland. I don't think I can even look at those pages anymore.

Eddy1215 14:15, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Thats full exaggeration, ok.. --I don't think I can even look at those pages anymore--. For real now? Only Gifs made you look at the articles?

If you would have spent 5 minutes to read the forum properly you would have noticed that they are (likely) just temporarily removed till they are properly resized. If you can't wait for that to happen, here is a fan forum with shiny gifs you can look at all day:

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=22199

Please enjoy. 14:29, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

That's the point Jinbe. You can't edit the Haki GIF without lowering the quality of it. That's why I was against any limit because now we have to use low quality GIFS from like AVI episodes instead of MKV episodes. SeaTerror 21:07, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

YazzyDream already worked on some gifs without any loss of quality tho? Maybe you can ask her to resize a few that are important to you. 17:00, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Where? The only GIF edit that I saw was before the vote. SeaTerror 20:51, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, she resized a handful before the vote, that's why I said you should ask her if she could do the same to the gifs important to you. 21:06, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Resizing lowered the quality so there is no point in trying to save them. SeaTerror 21:23, September 5, 2011 (UTC)