Forum:Meganoide

Editing the talk pages of several anonymous users who received a message for editing a page that has since become a redirect, altering the record of their edit. He has ignored multiple people who have told him to stop multiple times. It falls under vandalism by editing talk page messages.

Punishment: Two week ban.

Nominator: 23:20, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion 1
He doesn't only edit the welcome message of anons but also the welcome message of registered users(!) and even corrects their grammar on their profile pages. Completely unacceptable. 23:43, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

I will stop editing talk pages. I only ask to continue correcting redirects in normal pages. --Meganoide 11:23, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't understand the point of those edits. 12:29, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think is anything wrong with editing the code, since the text will be not altered. For example, if there is a red link in a talk page, it should be fixed otherwise the spacial page associated will be unnecessary populated with the wanted pages, although I also think there isn't really a reason to do that.

No need to ban him if he stops editing talkpages (both article and user). The redirects are no reason to be banned, at least it isn't covered anywhere. 14:32, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't see the point of editing redirects in articles. They go to the same page, so why alter them? 17:09, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Pointless edits that fill the activity.. And he was warned by Yata and DP in the past, and he keeps doing it.. No offence.. And its not good to just correcting welcome messages.. C'mon.. 17:16, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the point as well, but that needs to be discussed separately (it is no vandalism, it doesn't actually harm the wiki and it isn't forbidden).

I can only speculate about his motives, but maybe he doesn't like the "you have been redirected" line that appears when you are.... uhm.... redirected?

After all a redirect implies that you were incapable to find the article you were looking for, you needed a redirection. Really minor and not even worth mentioning.

But whatever, he said he won't edit talkpages anymore, that's all that counts (the code thing is no reason for a ban, yet) 17:42, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

PLS...no BANNING...he just didnt get about the talk page stuff...he was correcting the links....but talk pages were wrong..but I think he can continue editng the redirects:)

They were not wrong. Those were what they originally said so they are right. Editing them for any reason at all is asinine. He even edited article talk page comments before too. SeaTerror 17:57, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Forum Reopen
It has come to my attention that a certain user, who shall remain nameless.......*looks at forum title*...................nvm, it has come to my attention that Meganoide has been running his so called "pointless edits" amuck again. So i declare this forum........REOPEN -- 16:32, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

He has been told repeatedly to stop and has ignored all messages. He also refuses to provide any reason for his edits when asked. I propose a one month ban. 16:44, May 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Some people told him to stop because they don't like his edits, so it's just a matter of opinions and "edit testes", beside the first discussion was about editing other talk pages.

Letting aside the discussion on Meganoide my opinion on the redirect thing is:
 * Fixing not canon name redirects is a good thing, for example something like "Jimbe → Jinbe".
 * Fixing short-name or nickname redirects is irrelevant, I don't see it as a task to do, but I don't see a reason to undo it. Some example "Luffy → Monkey D. Luffy" or "Whitebeard → Edward Newgate", just a note some people may prefer to see the actual name in the tooltip instead of a nickname (Whitebeard vs Whitebeard) (and technically the short-name case is a little different from the nickname case, because the latter is more reasonable in my opinion).
 * Fixing redirect to merged pages as well different topic pages is a bad thing, for example "Gear Second → Gomu Gomu no Mi/Gear Second Techniques" or "Shandian Village → Skypiea#Shandian Village". This is because in these cases the redirect works as an anchor for a concept or a topic different from the page which is redirecting to, this is useful because if in future we decide to make the Gear Second tab a page on its own, we don't have to fix the links.

Now to the main point: I see many people who keep undoing Meganoide's edits because "fixing redirects is pointless", I agree with that but it's also pointless to reword a phrase just because I want or to remove a comma, why do you *must* undo this kind of edit? Think about it: if I make a new article from the beginning, would you change  to  ? Because the real point here, in my opinion, is not "fixing redirects" but "undoing-fixing redirects" and "undoing-undoing-fixing redirects", because as matter of fact it's you people who keep reverting Meganoide's edits who are starting edit wars, Megaonoide can be blamed for continuing them, but it's not him who started it. I think that if "fixing redirects" is pointless than "undoing-fixing redirects" is pointless^2 and "undoing-undoing-fixing redirects" is pointless^3 and so on...

While Meganoides edits are pointless, undoing those edits is even more pointless.

And you should try and notice how stupid it looks on the WA to see a war between contributors start over something as pointless as this. It's like you're just searching for reasons to have an edit war over and you found a perfect one!

There's nothing pointless about undoing his edits. SeaTerror 20:17, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

That's your whim as it's his whim to do those edits, you just arbitrary decided that those edits are not allowed.

Apparently DP doesn't exist in your fantasy world. SeaTerror 20:21, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

The fact remains, he's continued to do it despite being asked to stop multiple times and has failed to give a reason for why he's going over redirects when asked. So as far as I can tell from that he's trying to start edit wars or just trying to find cheap ways to up his edit count. If he has no reason to change a redirect, then why change it? Unless he's trying to irritate us, why fix what isn't broken? 20:22, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I already explained my thoughts about fixing redirects, you said that there is no reason for him to fix redirects, but then I have to say what reason/rights you people have to ask him to stop? Since there is no harm in those edits you just don't like it, that's all. You people are starting edit wars, and he is in wrong because he is continuing them. Why fix what isn't broken? Aside from redirects, because something works it doesn't mean that it's good as it is, some examples are our infoboxes, that degenereted in messy codes and sub-templates or the syntax of most of our pages that doesn't follow any common wiki-syntax style. I usually fix those, so does that make my edits pointless? Is rewording a correct sentence pointless? These kind of things are usually covered by the manual of style, so I'll propose them if we will make one (and we can talk about redirects there too). I don't understand this "pointless" talk at all and it seems weird that people SeaTerror just keep undoing what they feel "pointless". I don't understand what an user here could gain by raising up his edits.

Who doesn't think he outta be banned? It doesn't matter how bad of an action he did. The point is, an admin told him to stop. He didn't. That alone, no matter what you did, is worthy of a ban. But it's cool. We let it slide at first. However, he's consistantly disregarding his warnings. There's no reason at all to let him continue. Admins seem to be loosing there power. They're there for a reason. If an admin tells you to do it, you do it. If an admin tells you repeatedly not to do something, for the love of Oda, don't do it. It's simple. So ban him and ban him hard. 21:07, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Levi, to answer your question, no, the kind of edits you listed are actually productive since they actually go toward the betterment of the wiki. All Meganoide's doing is putting up an alternate route for a road that isn't broken. Changing them doesn't help, they are, as SeaTerror put it, edit fluff. And also it's just his general rudeness about the whole thing. I probably wouldn't be half as irritated by it if he gave a reason for it, instead of ignoring the question and accusing anyone who tells him off of being detrimental to the site. Going back to what I said earlier, that as well would make it just seem like he's just trying to irritate us. Redirects are just as good as straight links, so why alter something that is already perfectly fine, and dare I say just plain convenient? Attitude and lack of reason have as much to do with this as fluffing up his edits by making pointless changes. 21:42, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

If we are talking about his attitude, then I have nothing to say. About the redirects I kinda understand why he does that, I also usually don't use redirect-links when I'm adding links because I found more "right" to point in the actual article rather then a mirror to it, I just thought that redirects were useful in for searches. Fixing redirects it's not so out the world, I sometimes use a wiki-editor that have an option called "fix redirect" which automatically fix all redirect in a page. On this matter aside from the "short name redirects" (Zoro → Roronoa Zoro), I somewhat don't fell right in using nickname redirects, for the same reason why we don't use common surname for the article's title. I still don't understand the whole matter about "we told you to stop" (because we don't like it), that's a personal point of view, in my opinion. He was told to not edit other people's messages without a reason, this is a different topic.

Well, we don't use the common surnames because of cases of muliplicity. If I searched Monkey or Nico, there'd be no way of knowing who meant I specifically. They are useful in searches, at least before wikia ruined the search feature, so now they're convenient in making quick links. The way I see it, redirects should only be touched again if they get broken, an example would be if we found a link to one of the recently deleted redirect pages, like a direct link to "Pirate Hunter Zoro". That's fine. The main issue I have with it is Meganoide was making edits that weren't contributive, then he didn't provide any reasons for his apparent hatred of redirects despite being asked multiple times, and finally was just rude when he was asked to stop. Redirects overall are just a piece of the bigger problem at this point. 22:40, May 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I meant "nickname redirects" (Whitebeard → Edward Newgate). As a side-note, technically if you correct the redirects from the beginning the chances of creating broken links in the future will drop.

Well I don't understand much about Redirects .. to tell you the truth I have no idea what Redirects are >_> but from the common-member point of view .. all I am seeing is a member defying and ignoring a Admin's warnings and requests. This whole discussion about the importance of Redirects .. lets just put it aside in different forum to discuss later. Right now the question is about Meganoide's attitude toward DP. Is it really this easy to oppose a admin's directions? can edits likes these should be continued regardless of all warnings? are personal opinion and values really more important then other's? I may not be one to talk in matters of edit-rages but still, upon warning from a admin you should halt your action and think it threw. if you look at the whole picture .. tomorrow any new member can defy a admin's or a regular member's warnings just cause he/she thinks that they are wrong. I am sure that regular members who have been on this wiki for years, won't like seeing this kinda behaviors from someone whose has no idea how this wiki functions. Its total disrespect to authority and misleading examples for upcoming members. So right now the main thing to discuss is Meganoide's attitude toward DP and I found it really wrong. Instead of keep opposing DP's warning, he should have opened a forum and discussed it threw like we always have. so this was my thought .. now ignore me like I am dead >_> MDM out. 23:03, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

For the love of god, not this same shit again... Fills the activity with pointless edits, really (really) unecessary edits, the link redirects to the same page, so there isnt really any point to put 'Monkey D. Luffy' in front of 'Luffy'. (Thats why we have the ..) Clearly Meganoide doesnt listen to us, or more importantly to DP (an admin). He stopped for several months just to let this thing gets out of our heads and now he is on it again. And other users undo his work....... and he does the same thing. Can't continue like that. I propose a poll to decide what is his punishment.

@MDM: A redirect is a page that redirects to another, which its name implies. For example Luffy points to Monkey D. Luffy, their purpose is to avoid red-links and (some time ago) to redirect an user when to the right page when making a search.

@LPK: "so there isnt really any point to put 'Monkey D. Luffy' in front of 'Luffy'. (Thats why we have the ..)", that's not why we have the brackets, the brackets are simply the wiki-syntax to make a link that's all, if you put a pipe "|" you can display a different text from what you are actual linking. If there wasn't the page Luffy then this link wouldn't be existed. And as I said before, the activity feed was filled by those continuing undoing the edits.

About the "an admin asked you that" I'm don't really agree, an admin is not much more than an editor in a wiki (we are not any site on its own), so an admin's opinion is not really unquestionable. After said that, I agree that since admins are trusted users, if one asked you to stop doing something you should first clear things up (maybe even ask other users) before continuing doing so. As matter of fact, the whole fix/not fix redirects thing is a matter of opinions.

This whole redirect thing is a matter of personal opinion. There is nothing that is better about either side that is better than the other, so I think that it is stupid trying to argue which is better. The problem here is that Meganoide has been warned to stop and hasn't, and has also been unable to provide a reasonable explanation for himself as to why he decided to do his own thing and not listen to everyone else. In fact, has he even been informed of this forum? If he cannot provide a reasonable explanation, then I fully support a ban. 00:15, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

@Levi: An admin is not the same as a common user. If the admin warns the user, the user should listen to him and stop doing what he does. An admin knows best. In this case an admin and 5 other people told him to stop but he didnt listen. And yes the activity was filled by undoing the edits of Meganoide. Its unecessary edits but if someone makes them you shouldnt undo them, cause its not bad editing. Its only just annoying..

But if someone doesnt listen to warnings, and does whatever he wants, then he gets on people's nerves. Right?

@Pacifista15: Yeah that's right: the redirects thing doesn't really matter in this case, his behavior it's what matters. But you missed something: "Meganoide has been warned to stop", as far I investigated, with the previous part of this forum he was warned, we can say, by the community to not edit other user's messages, that's all. Now he was warned by other user "to not fix redirects", but as you said "There is nothing that is better about either side that is better than the other" hence the "warning" is pointless by itself. What right I have to "warn" you to not make an edit that isn't counter-productive? The only thing that can have relevance is that he was warned by an admin, but again the "warning" was based on a personal opinion, not a wiki rule, so I have some doubts that it counts as "warning". So the only thing I believe we can argue on, it's his attitude towards other users, that's all.

@LPK: in a wiki an admin is a user with some special rights, it's not like a staff member, and I also said that if an admin ask you something, you should clear things up first, but that's not because an admin's word is a command. Although I said that, I recognize that an admin opinion should be considered more than just a normal user, but still not in an absolute sense. Though each wiki can have it's own rule, read this.

I didnt say that we all must do whatever the admin wants. Just that his opinion counts more. This is not a case where only the admin wants that to happen anyways. Other people agreed as well.


 * Some people are not the community, but I agree that he should have stopped and clear things up.


 * Well, these are the people that got involved with this situation. You can't expect all of the users in this wiki to participate in this conversation.

After reading over the recent discussion between DancePowderer and Meganoide here and here, I found that Meganoide was asked to give a valid reason for why he was doing the edits and merely blew them off. The least he could have done was give a reason for why he hates redirects, but he decided to 1) Continue what he was doing and 2) Disrespect other people. If someone asks you why you did something, I think it's courteous to reply as to why, but maybe that's just me. 00:47, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

You are right, but I feel like pointing out that the reason why the other people undid his edits was "because it's pointless", to me those edits are just the same of Meganoide's, so why are you not asking those people to stop and provide a valid reason of their edits?

This reminds me of that time when a kid was shot down by police officers for possession of a weapon. The gun was fake and most likely a toy but the police didn't know that. The child was told repeatedly to put the "gun" down. In the end he was shot and killed. Who do u blame the police officers who were doing their job or the dumbass kid who didn't know the consequences? This is the same, DP is an admin and a good admin at that. When he tells u to do something u better do it no matter his reasoning. If u don't stop it means u either don't trust him or u don't trust his judgement but in the end u still get shot, in this case banned. You know why? Cause u didn't fuckin listen.-- 09:46, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Then the problem is that he didn't stop to clear things up, I agree with that, but it's not about his edits which some people don't like. Anyway there is still a poll, before getting banned, I think this forum is more like a real warning rather the a step before the ban, because even SeaTerror didn't get banned twice after much more worse things, in my opinion.

Thats from 'Die Hard', Hungry........


 * No its not, it happened in Texas -_- im serious look it up smart ass 15:24, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Like my girlfriend, this'll be short and sweet. It's not like we're giving him the death penelty here. It's a ban. The wiki is a work-productive-environment. If you were at work and your boss told you to stop something over and over and you didn't, you'd be fired. This isn't a life inprisonment for Meganoide. He can still read the articles and everything. We just don't want him to make his useless edits, so we're suspending his editting license. 12:07, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Many times we said that but in the end didn't do it, look at SeaTerror's case, I think that was much worse than this, there is nothing wrong of doing useless edits, because those edits were demanded useless from only a group of people (no wiki decision was made on that). The only fault I see here is his stubborness, that's all.

Seriously, this is getting really annoying... A poll is needed, to decide if he has to be banned for a while, or to see if people agree with this editing and let it be.

Well this is dragging forever .. but there is one thing that really annoys me .. and that is that even after all this talk on this forum .. Levi is the only one who is saying something from Meganoide's side but Meganoide himself has yet not said anything from his side. Not a explanation for his edits or nor a disagreement with his ban. Does that mean that he has nothing to say in his defense? This whole forum is about whether we should ban him or not and he has yet so has anything in his defense. I would really request Meganoide to come to this forum and say something. I am just like P15, if he cannot provide a reasonable explanation, then I fully support a ban. 16:19, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

That actually did happen in Texas, In my area in Dallas. (From Dallas) 23:21, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Technically that example is off: it should be "a kid was drawing something and a police officer came asking what he was drawing, then after not having an aswer for many times he shot down the kid". Your analogy is off because the "fake gun" implies something potentially dangerous, fixing redirect can't be dangerous at all.

Voting
This poll will close at 00:00 on May 23rd, 2012. To vote you must have been here for at least 3 months, and have at least 300 edits.

Do you think Meganoide should be banned?

Ban
 * 16:13, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:16, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:19, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:21, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) (for a while, yea)
 * 2)   21:28, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)   Feel the cold sting of the ban-hammer on your begging cheek!
 * 4)   00:12, May 16, 2012 (UTC) A week should do it
 * 5) SeaTerror 00:24, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6)  05:21, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7)  06:14, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8)  18:04, May 16, 2012 (UTC) Not perma ban though
 * 9)  12:06, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 10)  12:09, May 17, 2012 (UTC) *clap clap*
 * 11)  14:15, May 17, 2012 (UTC) (Constant sparking of edit wars warrants a ban)
 * 12) I&#39;d rather not beat you to death with a slightly heavy silver spoon 22:29, May 17, 2012 (UTC) What a moron.
 * 1)  14:15, May 17, 2012 (UTC) (Constant sparking of edit wars warrants a ban)
 * 2) I&#39;d rather not beat you to death with a slightly heavy silver spoon 22:29, May 17, 2012 (UTC) What a moron.

No Ban
 * 1) (OnePieceNation) (OnePieceNation 23:27, May 15, 2012 (UTC))
 * 2)  (some did far worse and were not banned)
 * 3) Klobis 00:59, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Why must we use redirects? Undoing-Undoing-Undoing-fixing redirects... pointless.
 * 1) Klobis 00:59, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Why must we use redirects? Undoing-Undoing-Undoing-fixing redirects... pointless.

Time's up. 18-4, Meganoide will be banned. Time to decide on the duration of the ban. 03:57, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Vote Discussion
Shouldn't we specify the poll a bit? I mean with the lenght of the ban? Because I wouldn't want Meganoide to be Perma-banned, although a small ban wouldn't hurt

Probably if the ban option wins, then we will make another poll for the length.

Can we add a no opinion section? 22:44, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

If you don't have an opinion, then why do you want to vote? 22:49, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

So people don't think I'm lazy about forums...... 22:51, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt anyone cares. 23:18, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

True. XDXD 23:20, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Now should we decide the length?

A month at least. SeaTerror 16:09, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

How about a week as a minimum, and a permanent (not that I think anyone might vote for that "lenght") as max?

Sorry, I thought the forum was already ended... but that's strange, first time seeing one being banned in advance. About the length, we just add the options as usual and one will vote for what he think is right, but again, may I remind all of you that Meganoide did not break any rule and basically all the problems started because some users don't like his edits for personal tastes only? The only fault he may did was not give a full explanation when DP inquired the reason behind his edits, I don't even know if he ever insulted anybody, he sure used sarcasm, but as if no other users here did the same. I feel this ban definetly not common, but it's not the end of the world.

Ends on 23. Then we'll decide the length.

Can we just add an "if so how long" section and extend the voting limit time? 03:35, May 19, 2012 (UTC)

Poll
The voting close at May 26th, 2012. You must have been on here for at least three months and have at least 300 edits to vote on this poll.

How long Meganoide should be banned?


 * One Week
 * 1)  (he didn't give a reason? And what are the reasons behind undoing his edits? There is no rule on the matter, it's just someone's opinions, as matter of fact you guys started all the edit wars and he never broke any rules, why he is getting banned while other users did worse in the past and got away unpunished? This vote is really absurd.)
 * 2)  (same as Levi)
 * 3) Klobis 08:29, May 26, 2012 (UTC) The ones who should be banned are Pandawarrior and others, not Meganoide.


 * One Month
 * 01:15, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1)  01:34, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)  06:36, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)  14:54, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4)  05:00, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5)  07:29, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6)  16:17, May 24, 2012 (UTC) two months? u better chill wit dat. even if he acts the way he does, hes still a great editor and has done alot of stuff for the wikia. 2 months is pretty hasty if u ask me. 1 month is more than enough IMO
 * 7)  Agreed with hungry, two months is way too much
 * 8)  13:59, May 27, 2012 (UTC) i voted late but whatever meant to vote here, someone deleted my vote for no reason
 * 1)  13:59, May 27, 2012 (UTC) i voted late but whatever meant to vote here, someone deleted my vote for no reason


 * Two Months
 * 11:04, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) User:X-RAPTOR 21:52, May 23, 2012 (UTC) You and Klobis have to stop this shit theres redirects for a reason...
 * 21:56, May 23, 2012 (UTC) he has yet not given any reason or explanation about his behavior. Then it means he does not care about his position in this wiki .. then why is he here anyway?
 * 14:43, May 24, 2012 (UTC) Obviously, he hadn't learned anything at all during his temp ban, and I doubt one month is enough
 * 1) SeaTerror 15:55, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) 海賊☠姫 21:30, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)   21:50, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4)   02:29, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1)   21:50, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2)   02:29, May 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Permanent

Discussion 2
Time's up. Results show that 3-9-11-0. Meganoide will be banned for 2 months. 03:58, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't that a bad way of counting? The three users who wanted 1 week would obviously prefer a 1 month ban instead of 2 months, which would make the results 12-11 (Yes, I know I can't vote, and I haven't been here long, but throwing their votes away seems like bad policy - they should at least be able to recast). Zodiaque 06:19, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Not how it works. They could have changed their vote but didn't. A person who votes for one option doesn't mean they vote for another. We had this discussion during my forum. SeaTerror 06:37, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion 3
His ban is over and he's already back to doing what got him banned in the first place, even after a warning about it from DP. Since he's clearly not gonna stop I say we ban him again. 14:39, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

For how long? He's also editing the episodes and ruining the new format we decided on. SeaTerror (talk) 17:18, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * There's no reason to ban him as he's only disagreeing with you on the source code layout - which doesn't have ANY effect on the parser result aside from links to redirects being noticed through the "redirected from ..." below the level 1 caption - which is a reason to link to the original article instead to the redirect.
 * Insults and edit wars on real facts vs. fanbiased status quo as in World Timeline on the other hand didn't have any effect on someone else. -- [ defchris ] · [ Diskussion ] · 05:11, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

That isn't a reason at all. There is absolutely no good reason to want to use non-redirect links. SeaTerror (talk) 06:06, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Defchris why are you even bothering to argue about this, it doesn't matter what it is the point is admins have told him not to do it and warned him multiple times, yet he still does. 06:32, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the old saying is "3 strikes and you're out". So why not make it a permanent ban since he's just gonna go against what we say the moment the 2-month ban is lifted? If you think that's too harsh, then just make it 1 year. 06:45, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Permanent works. 15:44, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't listen to a word you say. 1 year is perfect.

You are still arguing with him about your personal opinions... an admin told him to stop? Well sorry but an admin cannot order around people if they aren't breaking any rules... and at least, if they want to "keep peace in the community" they shouldn't just focus on Meganoide but with every users involved. I understand their reasons and I'll try to talk with him, but aren't you guys got carrying away? If I not mistaken, SeaTerror was asked to stop insulting people around multiple times but it still around doing that, not to mention that this whole problem started by him starting edit warring with Meganoide, so why isn't he also under process for edit warring?

Just permaban him already. He has obviously not learned his lesson. --Cheese Lord (talk) 14:42, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

You know, I'm getting tired of hearing "he didn't learn his lesson" and who are you guys to teach lessons to anyone? As matter of fact this whole crap started by a divergence of opinions by some users, resulting only on one side getting "teached a lesson". That's not fair at all, in my opinion.

Levi it's not really a matter of him not learning his lesson, it's a matter of him disregarding community decisions. The community decision, as evidenced by his banpoll, was for him to stop "correcting" redirects, yet as soon as he came back he started doing it again, showing a blatant disregard to how this wikia is run. 13:09, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Holy shit....shouldnt you guys first talk with him about this before deciding this,and i think a permanent ban is to much you should hear him out first. User:X-RAPTOR 13:37, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

After a short discussion in chat, I thnk DP banned him for only a year. And that's mostly because of his attidude, not because of the redirects. 13:50, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

He banned him? Well good community decision was that... when he was told not to edit user talk pages he didn't do it anymore, telling him "not to fix redirects" is a groundless statement since there is no rule about it, is like I told you not use italic. And my main point is that this whole issue is not concerning only meganoide, so why nobody else is getting "teached a lesson"? This is not what I'd expected from this.

Give me a break. You're only defending his bullshit because you're both admins on the Italian OP wikia. If you paid attention he got banned for already doing the edits he got banned for in the first place and COMPLETELY ignoring this forum once again. He should have been banned for only 2 months this time and then if he did it again banned permanently. SeaTerror (talk) 15:20, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of the redirects issue he was originally banned for, he was told to stop them by an admin, and he did not stop. This time (and the other times too, likely) he was banned for ignoring the authority of an admin. Levi, if you and Meganoide are admins on the Itallian wiki, then you can probably understand DP's frustration with Meganoide ignoring his authority. The redirects issue is being discussed in the Manual Of Style Forum, and maybe when Meganoide comes back, there will be a concrete rule on it. But the fact remains that he ignored DP's authority, and refused to make a serious effort to discuss the redirects issue on his own forum, on the MoS one, or anywhere else other than the edit history of articles he was warring on. He just kept editing the redirects alone, knowing that people had a problem with it. That kind of lone-wolf uncooperative behavior is not ok here. 15:41, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Jesus.. Just let this forum die in peace.. Nothing's gonna change, the admins have spoken. Enough is enough.

Because we are both admins on the Italian wiki? Come on do you guys have read what I wrote at least? But since when here "if the admin spoke, then there is nothing to add to it"? And I understand perfectly well DP, what I did not understand was why he picked only Meganoide (note that I'm not questioning that). SeaTerror, you are equally at fault here since you started all this pointless edit wars with him.

I already said what I think and since I get the feeling that you still are saying the same things regardless of what I say, this is becoming pointless... by the way, I'm sure I'm not the only one who think that. Oh and of course now we decide all things in chat... well whatever.

I thought this forum was over from the moment Meganoide decided to say NOTHING in is defense. While I respect Levy effort into making everyone acknowledged of about both sides of the story .. Meganoide too have to testify something in his defense. If he thinks that writing reasons in edit-summaries is enough proof to support his actions then he is wrong. Similar thing happened in last discussion .. he did not say anything and was banned for 2 months and now history is repeating itself. If this is going to continue then its OBVIOUS that he does not value his place in this wiki so it does not matter for how long you ban him for. I say until a admin see proper apology or logical explanation for all his actions till now .. Permanent ban stays. 16:45, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Levi, of course you're not the only one who think that he was banned for a stupid reason (or that if he was banned, at least two other regulars should have been banned along with him). Still, there was a poll; and as soon as he came back he just started over, ignoring talk pages and forums. Had he tried a little bit to explain himself, I would have defended him, but really it was just hopeless.

I know and I'm not defending his attitude or his doing, I just didn't accept some ways of thinking and not liked how this forum turned out, that's all, because not saying anything in defence doesn't make you guilty of everything, we should be able to discern the guilty of someone regardless of what he says. It's all in the past now.

Discussion 4
I'm done. Per Forum:Purpose of Ban Forums, ban forums are now used when a user has not broken any rules specifically, but is disruptive and harmful to the wiki. He probably has broken rules in the last couple days, but please keep in mind that by the current rules, rules do not need to be broken in order for Meganoide to be banned.

Meganoide is a completely uncooperative editor, that makes mistakes and refuses to listen to others when informed about his mistakes. Just look at this exchange. Or just read any exchange on User talk:Meganoide, really. He has personal hangups about several users, and refuses to believe that anything they say or do isn't some personal attack on him.

He's spent over a year and a half of my 3 years here banned, and his behavior has never changed for the better, and some might say it's changed for the worse. Just take a look at the earlier discussions in this forum. At this point, I can't see any kind of discipline having any effect.

I want a permanent ban. And I probably could have just done it myself, but I decided this should be a community decision, as the permanent ban of a user is something people should have a say in. I want it to be clear that JSD did not ban him, but that the majority of the community did.

Knowing how most members of the community feel about this, it should be over quick. Poll starts in 2 days. 12:37, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

I have no objection. He's been given chances and thrown them in your face.

13:52, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm agreeing seeing the message wall wars between JSD, Kaido and Meganoide. Despite I didn't understand anything.

Seeing how Meganoide's attitude never has/never will change... I have no objections. 14:14, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Just ban the man already. He said it himself that he doesn't care about the community Roranoa Drake II (talk) 14:26, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Ban him. 14:27, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Ban him infinitely. The unwavering stubbornness and refusal to change has been a burden to our community for years. This has gone on for far too long. --Mr. Mojo Risin&#39; (talk) 14:45, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Putting aside my bias on this matter stemming from how he's treated me and my summaries, Mega needs to go. He's not gonna change, and the fact that's he actively rejected all his second chances like a spoiled child speaks for itself.--Xilinoc (talk) 16:38, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

There's no excuse for him to keep being this disruptive after multiple warnings and bans. Ban him. 16:41, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

I approve. No more words needed. (Although many words can be said) 17:48, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

There's absolutely no excuse for Mega's extremely poor behavior at this point. We gave him many chances to fix his behavior and cooperate with the community, many warnings and many bans, and he still have yet to change his behavior at all. So I'm all for a very long ban, perhaps even a permanent ban. 20:34, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Sure. We we still have to discuss a length of some sort though. SeaTerror (talk) 22:31, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Is anyone opposed to not having a less than six month option? I've seen no one who's actually opposed to this ban, and most people are leaning towards an infinite ban. 22:37, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Why the permanent ban? He's stubborn and takes things rather a bit too personally, but that's the extent of it- he doesn't go out of his way to hurt this wikia just for the sake of it. Though we may not agree with him, he still has the right to have his own ways and reasons to feel angry about and deal with certain issues. As far as I can tell, the only reason Mega has been a "disruption" to this community is because we keep flooding the activity with posts on his talk page arguing with his viewpoints- which is fine, since convincing users to have similar viewpoints results in a friendlier, more practical environment to edit here- but it's also not his fault that the way he deals with situations conflicts with the way most of us do. I simply don't think it's right for us to call Mega a "disruption" to this community when he himself clearly wasn't asking for people to debate with him on his talk page. We can give him a limited ban to show that his uncooperative nature is unacceptable as a community member, but a permanent ban makes no sense. We can't just infinitely kick someone out of a public, anyone-can-join community like ours just because we don't agree with him. 23:21, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

What about if you've tried to agree with him on several issues, but he continues to do the same things. What if you try really hard to make sure that he's part of the process to make new rules, and they don't end up supporting his opinion? What if that user keeps doing the same stuff, and then refuses to talk to people about it? What if he even stops listening to certain users no matter what they try to communicate with him about?

And lastly, what if a user has spent about a year and a half of the last three years banned for not being responsive to rules and the community trying to enforce them?

That's exactly the situation we have here. If a year ban didn't work, and if any of his recent bans didn't have any positive effects (and really only negative effects, as based on the things on his talk page, he wants weird bullshit-based revenge bans for others) on his behavior, then why should we go down this road again? 23:31, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

No JOP. He is blatantly breaking rules and then when told not to do those edits that break the rules he said "I didn't read your messages". SeaTerror (talk) 23:34, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Edit conflict.

@JSD: Why shouldn't we? My arguments are still relevant, wether the last bans have worked or not. We can't infinitely kick him out of here just because we don't agree with him.

@ST: So do we have proof that he did read the messages but lied about it? And does he still continue to break rules? If so, which rules, and can we have proof? 23:48, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Mega has completely stopped working with the community. He insults/ignores users he's had disagreements with (and thus thinks are part of some kind of conspiracy to get him in trouble), even when they're informing him that he's breaking the rules. He's constantly at the center of trouble and never learns. In fact, his behavior seems to get worse every time. Perma-ban is the natural conclusion. 23:51, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Meganoide#Reminder SeaTerror (talk) 23:52, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

It's fine if a user has different opinions, but not if those opinions disrupt the community. We operate on consensus, and many times Meganoide's viewpoints have gone against consensus. Now, pretty much everyone has a viewpoint or two that differs from consensus, but they are expected to be mature and follow that consensus or at least give a well-measured argument against that in the hopes of changing it. Meganoide has not done that. He resorts to petty insults when discussing with people who disagree with his edits, then blames the community for shutting down everything he does despite the fact that those edits often go against consensus. Rather than attempting to talk it out and sway editors to his side, Mega often goes on rhetorics about how he should be able to do what he wants and complaining about how the wiki is against him. That is not how discussions work. In the past month, we have successfully maintained this wiki to high standards with noticeably fewer arguments, only for that to go down the drain when Mega's ban ended. From what I heard, it was the same way after his year ban too. So given the evidence that leads me to severely doubt that Mega can change his ways, I support an infinite ban. 00:08, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. He only insults users who have spoken to him in an offensive manner. He has the right to not check his talk page. He does not deserve a PERMANENT ban. Also, in JSD's words: THE BEHAVIOR OF OTHERS DOES NOT EXCUSE YOUR OWN. Though Mega isn't completely clean either, he has the right to feel offended, as he himself has also been flat-out insulted by several users. 00:31, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

It's fine to disagree with the majority; we've all done that at some point. It's even fine to regularly disagree. The problem is that Mega flat out refuses to compromise or work with people he dislikes, which causes more problems than it solves. His refusal to read messages from people he doesn't like, even when they're politely warning him about a rule violation, is both rude and disruptive. If this were his first time, it wouldn't be a huge issue, but from a user who's been here for years and has already been banned five times, it's inexcusable. 01:18, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

Even when users did not insult him, and disagreed with him in a very polite manner, Mega continues to be a jackass to these users. Even if users tried to help him, he blatantly refuse their help and is rude to them. He refuses to cooperate with anyone, regardless of how nice they were to him. He insults everyone, not just those who insulted him. All you have to see his edit summaries, in which he frequently insult pretty much the whole community. He thinks that the community is on a conspiracy to get rid of him, which is untrue. Mega will not cooperate with anyone, regardless of who are they, continue to break rules, refuse to listen from anyone, even admins, and we have given him multiple chances to fix his extremely poor behavior, which he threw all of them away. As Vid said, this kind of behavior is absolutely unacceptable for someone who have been banned five times in the past. He's clearly not going to change his behavior, he's clearly not going to cooperate with anyone at this point, his actions blatantly disregard the rules, and is shockingly rude to everyone else. It's time to stop giving him another chance, and be done with him. 01:37, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

First off, I want to say that I'm impressed with how this has gone so far. Not because of the result, but because of how the conversation has been (mostly) respectful and valuable. You're talking about the issue at hand and not just sweeping it under the rug. This is a real discussion.

Alright, now to the heart of the matter. When bans and disagreements happen, not only is there a certain expectation that they will improve their behavior, but also that they will forgive, or at least tolerate, those involved in the original dispute. Meganoide is stuck in the past and only blames others for his bans, and never accepts even the possibility that any amount of fault is his own. Maybe some shitty stuff did happen to him back then, but he still must be able to move on if he is going to remain a part of the community. We can't go back and undo the shitty things, we can only move forward. Except no matter how far forward we go, it's never good enough for Mega. Other users can treat him with the utmost respect after they have insulted him, and he will still treat them with the most disrespect he can.

This is not an easy issue, and I don't talk permanent ban lightly. But I do believe in this situation, it's the best possible result. 03:28, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the poll will decide how long. 06:30, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

* Sighs* I hope Meganoide won't be the next Gal.

Poll Discussion
We're using the ban version of the poll template, so things will look a little different. Per the rules, 1 week for each part of the poll. The next step on the ban ladder is 6 months, so he starts there at least. We can discuss adding/removing different lengths, though I feel there should be at least one non-permanent option. Maybe also a 3 year length too? The first part of the Poll starts Monday. 12:37, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

What makes you think up of 3 years? We banned this guy permanently when he turned bad. 06:30, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'm with Yata. The Drunk Samurai treatment is looking pretty enticing right now. 06:39, August 23, 2015 (UTC)