Talk:Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance

Different Groups Trivia
Five different groups doesn't make it the largest allied group. The Straw Hats Grand Fleet has seven and the Whitebeard Pirates has 16 divisions not counting the allies. Rhavkin (talk) 16:19, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

Those are subordinates, not allies. The 16 Whitebeard divisions are part of his crew. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:19, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

They aren't subordinates according to Chapter 800, but lets say they are, the seven groups ware allied among themselves before coming to Luffy. And we don't know enough about the recruitment of the Whitebeard Pirates, the Spade Pirates for example, ware Independent before joining and then their captain became a division leader. Rhavkin (talk) 16:29, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

"These seven rowdy ruffians...have stepped forward as Straw Hat’s followers!" not allies, subordinates, even if they did invite themselves. And there is nothing to support the reasoning that the 16 divisions are not part of Whitebeard's main crew. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:46, April 13, 2016 (UTC)

They aren't subordinates. Luffy isn't their leader. They decided to work together before even suggesting the sake to Luffy. Rhavkin (talk) 09:01, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Kaido is right about the fleet and Whitebeard Pirates, but the Whitebeard allies are much more then five and they are called allies and not subordinates for a reason. The Whitebeard allies are the largest allied group but since their current status is unknown the trivia should say "With five different groups in this alliance, they are 'currently the largest known number of allied groups" with the Whitebeard allies in a sub-note. 87.69.142.211 09:10, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

History
Should Law's and the Kozuki Clan's history really be part of the alliance history? All that happened before the alliance was formed. The Buggy and Alvida Alliance and XXX Gym Martial Arts Alliance history section starts when the alliance was formed not from the reasons for seeking allies. Rhavkin (talk) 19:49, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

You have a point. But they do explain how the alliance came to be in a certain way. I feel like that is worth noting. The other two alliances don't have much of a background as well, but I get what you mean. 20:13, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

So at least it deserve a major clean up. The relationship between Law and Rosinante, and the samurais separation is irrelevant, and nowhere it is said that Law allied himself with Caesar "in preparation for the alliance..." and not simply gathering information. Rhavkin (talk) 20:22, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I agree, be my guest. 21:27, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

Fire Tank Pirates
I don't think the Firetank or Sun Pirates should be added to the alliance gallery yet. The purpose of this alliance, as stated in Chapter 819 and the page's introduction, is expressly to take down Kaido. The alliance right now is between the Firetank Pirates, Sun Pirates, and a tiny portion of the NMPS Alliance for an entirely different purpose. Neither of the two other crews have shown any interest in working with the larger alliance against Kaido yet. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 20:37, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I agree. They shouldn't be included in this particular alliance. 21:26, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

I think it's a little more complicated than that. The question is whether or not the Sanji Retrieval Team are a subgroup of the alliance or just of the Straw Hats?

It's a given fact that the Fire Tank Pirates are allies with the retrieval team, but are they allies of the main group (whichever it may be)? The closest example is the Impel Down prisoners, who followed a (singular) part of the Buggy Alvida Alliance, and as a result are honor bound to its entirety.

On one hand, Luffy asked to pause the alliance activity until he brings Sanji back. On the other hand, he is aided by Pedro and Carrot.

Now, the derived decision affects the gallery, navibox, bounty, alliance strength, etc. and also, if the team aren't part of the alliance, then the Totto Land Arc shouldn't by in the history section as well.

Now I think that alliance with the retrieval team, count as alliance with the main crew which is the Straw Hat Pirates, who themselves are a part of the NPMS Alliance, so if you count one you have to count the other. If you argue that if they only allied themselves with part of the main crew(s) doesn't count, then I would like to point out that some of the allies in the Straw Hats "Allies" tab allied themselves with just a part of the crew, be it during their separation period or their split in the Dressrosa Saga. Rhavkin (talk) 12:17, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

If A and B ally, and A and C ally, B and C are not automatically allied. Bege may want to ally with Luffy, but he has given no indication that he wants to ally with Wano or the minks.

17:20, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

That's why the Fire Tanks won't be in the Heart Pirates, Mink Tribe, and Kozuki Clan gallery, Just like the Grand Fleet. The only thing that makes them part of this alliance is the fact that Pedro and Carrot, who are part of the Mink Tribe, are also part of the Sanji Retrieval Team.

Who put the Sanji Retrieval Team as a subgroup of the Straw Hats crew members section of their page, and put Pedro and Carrot as allies. I'm perfectly fine with saying that the Fire Tanks are only allies of the Straw Hats and not the entire alliance, and all of it's repercussions, but A, I'm not gonna vote for this option in a poll; and B, I need to know that what this community agree to. Rhavkin (talk) 18:48, March 14, 2017 (UTC)

So, delete the Whole Cake Island arc or add the Fire Tanks to the gallery? Rhavkin (talk) 10:37, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, different alliances for different purposes. The transitive property does not apply in this case 18:33, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

kid is a leader now if yes what section should his crew be under
the Kid Pirates are shown  joining alliance in recent chapter  he is leader of his own crew/group just like law and luffy  and momo and neko/inuTo love this (talk) 14:43, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

A leader of a group in the alliance is diferent from one of the leaders of the alliance. Hyugoro is the leader of the yakuza, Kin'emon is the leader of the Scabbards... Rhavkin (talk) 15:05, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

no it is not if u are leader of a group in alliance u are a leader in the allaince law luffy momo inu and neko are all leaders of there own groups same as kid is. he is a equal to them
 * hyogro is not leader of all yakuza or even his own group currently  he has respwct of other leaders but is not in charge of all of them
 * Ok we are not doing this again the Nine Red Scabbards are not there own group they fall under the kozuki famiy same with kyshiro family nowTo love this (talk) 15:12, March 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * A leader in the alliance is not a leader of the alliance. Kid was not one of the leaders who formed the alliance.
 * The yakuza bosses from Udon treat Hyogoro as their leader, even if they were from different fanctions in the past, now they are all under his leadership.
 * I'm not saying they aren't, just that there leaders of groups in the alliance who are not leaders of the alliance.

Rhavkin (talk) 15:59, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

There is no indication that Kid joined the alliance:
 * When Luffy called out to him after he showed up, Kid stated that he did not want them to have all the glory for taking down Kaido.
 * Neither Luffy, Law, nor the samurai were aware that they would run into Kid, and Kid referred to the waiting samurai he encountered earlier as obstacles to him.

I wouldn't go so far as to plainly say Kid is only going to Onigashima to take down Kaido himself, but right now that seems more likely than him officially joining forces with the alliance, based on what we know right now. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:10, March 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * yes it is those not matter if he wasnt there when first was formed  kid joined this alliance he not taking orders from any of them  he has same amount of authority


 * no they do not they respect him and listen to him alot but he is not there leader


 * last time I am saying this they are not there own group they fall under kozuki family they are a sub group  so the nine,the kyoshiro family, and my Amtyama thieves all fall under this  so no kinemon would never be consider a leader because momo is his

if that's the case kid pirates shouldn't be on this page anywhere yet but if we agree they joined the alliance kid should be under leader section and his group under membersTo love this (talk) 16:17, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

They are just like the Grand Fleet and G-5, but we can't ignore them working together toward a certain goal, which is what alliances are. Maybe we should have "Allies" separate from "Other Members"? Rhavkin (talk) 16:21, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

ok grand fleet and g-5 shouldnt even be on this page
 * grand fleet falls under straw hats  sense they are only loyal to them /  affilated with them really its same thing for nine and other groups loyal to kozuki family


 * G-5 was never really ally to them they juat did t try to stop themTo love this (talk) 16:25, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

This page was originally about the Straw Hat-Heart Pirates Alliance, which then evolved with the Minks and Samurai present. With this in mind, having the G-5 and the Grand Fleet there is not wrong since they joined forces with the original alliance.

Kid at most is an reluctant ally like Smoker. He's not really a leader or anything of the sort.KingCannon (talk) 17:04, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

kid controls a faction that would be part of alliance he isnt like other people under ally section saying he isnt leader  ia bascically saying he below those who are and smoker wasnt trying help bring kaido down  he just helping his man escape.To love this (talk) 17:12, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

Smoker did more then that: even after his men were saved, he did not arrest the Straw Hats nor Law, something he wasn't against after Alabasta, and his actions against Ceasar and Doflamingo hirt Kaido.

Either way, the topic is about Kid status within the alliance, not the Kid Pirates being allies, so stop removing them from the template. Rhavkin (talk) 18:23, March 20, 2020 (UTC)

the discussion is about should kid pirates be consider members of alliance and if yes were should they be placed so until we all come to agreement of more info is revealed stop changeing the gallery follow the rulesTo love this (talk) 19:10, March 20, 2020 (UTC)