Talk:Crocodile

Awakened
Shouldn't we also list Crocodile as an ? He can turn his surroundings to sand and he can refexebly turn to sand himself, I think that's quite enough to list him as one too. 13:20, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

We don't know what defines an awakened Logia DF user yet, so we can't really say Crocodile is one. Yes, he uses his DF in creative ways. So does Chopper. Just being skilled doesn't automatically mean they're awakened.

14:41, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Speculation. 15:50, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Speculation. It's on the Mythbusters page anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 23:56, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think there is anything strange in him turning the surrounding into sand since one of his ability let him dry things up. Yes, it's flashy, but I don't have to think of an "awakened" fruit to explain it.

Ok then.. 12:38, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Divide
Croco's article is almost 90,000 bytes long so I think that it should be divided. Cracker-Kun (talk) 23:59, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

I would probably support once he becomes active in the story again and his page gets closer to 100k bytes, right now though I don't think it needs a split. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:07, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Edits before splitting is better. The "Errors and Corrections" section is something I haven't seen anywhere else on the wiki, and I don't think it's really needed. Rhavkin (talk) 01:13, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

I agree that we wait until it gets to 100k. As for Errors and Corrections, I don't mind the section. There are plenty of errors for other characters in the manga, so it might be worth documenting everywhere. 02:59, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

The "Errors and Corrections" are a volume change, animation error, anime error, and an in-canon filler. If we list every time something like that happen for every character, this will became a junk wiki. Also, the anime addition to the Dressrosa Arc has no benefit, unlike in Kaku's case, since as best as I an recall, there was never a doubt about his appearance in that scene. The Errors and Corrections section is just an example of things that should be edited out before the 100k rule is applied. Rhavkin (talk) 03:11, July 10, 2019 (UTC)

Sir Crocodile's name
So I'm not sure if this conversation has come up in the past, but in the latest chapter, "Sir Crocodile" is written out in the same style as other full names ("Buggy", "Dracule Mihawk", etc.). Has Oda confirmed one way or another if "Sir" is a title or if his full name really is "Sir Crocodile"? Because between this and it showing up like that on the Cross Guild poster, I'm starting to feel like the latter is the case. The Pope 05:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

...Actually this is interesting. At first I was gonna say that Oda was just using a common epithet, because like "Sir Crocodile" just sounds cool for that moment. If it was Krieg, I would've guessed Oda would write "Don Krieg". It sounds cool and it's what he's known for. But I got curious, and I went to see how his name is actually written in the character bios at the start of volumes. Volume 23, during Alabasta, he's listed as "Sir Crocodile", or "サー・クロコダイル". Then I checked Volume 56, which is during Impel Down/Marineford. Again, he's "サー・クロコダイル". Crocodile's infobox for Impel Down, in Chapter 540, even says "Sir Crocodile". If it was a true epithet, it would just be "Crocodile", wouldn't it? This is a REALLY interesting observation! I think his surname really is "Sir"; a Sir name. 05:27, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I'd liken it to if a character's name was "George Sama", you'd probably have people in Japan confused if his surname really is "sama" or if "sama" is an honorific. Like yeah, "Sir Crocodile" sounds cool to us (and probably to Oda too), but he also probably just wanted it to be his name. Also not for nothing, but I'm all aboard the "Crocodile used to be a woman but had Ivankov genderswap him" theory train, and changing his surname to "Sir" as a way to nail that home could've been something Crocodile chose to do, but that's just my headcanon at this point. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that, barring any contradicting statements from Oda about "Sir" being a title, his full name should be changed to "Sir Crocodile". The Pope 23:02, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it has been brought up multiple times; you can read some of the discussions on Talk:Crocodile/Archive 1. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 23:17, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

From what I can see, it looks like the general agreement in there is that, yes, "Sir" is his surname. In that case, can we go ahead and rename the page? The Pope 23:48, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Obviously it's a tier below the manga, but thought it was worth noting that the Vivre Card databook just lists him as "Crocodile". Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 00:08, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I just re-read Chapter 210 (from Viz), right after Crocodile was defeated. The rebels said "Sir Crocodile!" to which Usopp said "Sir Crocodile?! Do you know what that jerk..." Another translation used "Mr. Crocodile" for this. Granted, Crocodile was, at that point, a hero to the Alabastans, so maybe they would honor him like that. At the same time, I feel like if Brad Pitt fell from the sky, people would say "Brad Pitt!" instead of just "Brad!" or something, so maybe Usopp just misunderstood that it's not an honorific. I dunno if this counters or supports anything, but it's the only instance I see where his apparent surname or epithet is actually acknowledged. 20:22, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

That's just Viz. In Japanese, the random guy said "Crocodile-san". For reference. The Pope 21:15, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

So, we good to make the change? The Pope 03:47, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Vivre Card lists "Sir Crocodile" as an epithet/title and the latest chapter lends credence to that. Brannew introduces the Cross Guild members as "Sir Crocodile", "Hawk-Eyes Mihawk", and "Buggy the Star Clown". At the end of the chapter, the subordinates address them as "Sir Crocodile" (サー・クロコダイル), "Chairman Buggy" (バギー座長), and "Master Mihawk" (ミホーク様), so they seem to treat "Sir" as an honorific. 17:38, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Does Brannew use "Sir"? It seems to me like he just called him Crocodile. Also, something else I didn't note is that we're seeing Crocodile's wanted poster for the first time, and it says "Sir Crocodile". While you could argue "Oh they're just using his title", not only do we not see that replicated with the likes of Luffy, even Big Mom and Whitebeard, who are referred to by their epithets nine times out of ten, say "Charlotte Linlin" and "Edward Newgate". The fact that Crocodile's spells out "Sir Crocodile" should be the final nail in the coffin here. The Pope 19:13, 28 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Page 13 he says "Sir Crocodile" when presenting Crocodile's wanted poster, "Hawk-Eyes Mihawk" when presenting Mihawk's, and "Buggy the Star Clown" when presenting Buggy's. 10:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Crocodile's bounty poster says "Sir Crocodile". Mihawk's says "Dracule Mihawk", while Buggy's seems to simply say "Buggy". I think that's confirmation more than anything. 22:02, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Wanted posters are tricky. Most are characters exact names (or the names they're known by, in Law's case). For epithets, few are included but they are listed differently. Kid's is "Eustass "Captain" Kid" while Usopp's is "God Usopp," with no separate quotes around "God." However, given Crocodile has always been introduced as "Sir Crocodile," I think it "Sir" a surname. 01:49, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

As Noland points out, Bounty posters are inconsistent in the matter of naming. Usopp has "God" in his, for example.

They cannot be used as evidence for that reason. KingCannon (talk) 02:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Wanted posters have always list the names of the subjects, as they're registered by the World Government, in big English letters. That has always been consistent. Usopp's name has never been "Sogeking" or "God Usopp", but according to the Government, that IS his name (unless they still think he's two separate people, but I digress). Names will be updated as more information comes to them, such as Sanji to Vinsmoke Sanji. Epithets are listed, but only via text somewhere else on the poster. Considering that Crocodile is not only a famous public figure, but is also a former Warlord of the Sea, his name would obviously be well known. To put it another way, the Government doesn't know a lot about Usopp, so their name for him being wrong is expected. The Government knows and has worked with Crocodile, so they SHOULD know his name. If "Sir" was an epithet, it wouldn't be in big English letters. It is, because that's how the Government has registered his name. His name is Sir Crocodile. 03:00, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Eustass "Captain" Kid and Capone "Gang" Bege have their epithets in English letters, and I find it unlikely that the government thinks "God" is part of Usopp's name. 10:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

While that's fair, there's still the other points of evidence in favor of "Sir" being his surname. Do we need to put this to a vote, or can we just go ahead and make the change? The Pope 16:17, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Buh's initial points still stand, wanted posters aside. Oda's character introductions rank higher than databooks and what other characters say. 17:13, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Many characters are introduced with titles and epithets, so I don't see how that confirms anything. 18:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Kaido King of the Beasts Can you officiate this? The Pope 19:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

His Vivre Card also says this on the back: "Carrying the nickname of "Sir" which he gained somewhere" (何処で得た"サー"の愛称を湛え). 19:41, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

^Well, that's very definitive if true.

Sir being a surname has too many holes and doesn't form a concrete argument. That quote kinda disproves the whole notion of surname, especially since the manga is overall unclear about what "Sir" means. Unless Oda outright states "Sir" is a surname (manga, interview or otherwise), then we should go with the Vivre Card. KingCannon (talk) 20:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

If the "Sir" part of his Wanted Poster was an epithet, it would be in quotations like Kid and Bege's are. I'll admit those two sort of break the pattern that the wanted posters clearly have, but if Crocodile's "Sir" was just an epithet, that's an even bigger break in the pattern. The quotations would at least inform that it's an epithet, but Crocodile's name is not in quotations, unlike Kid and Bege. Crocodile follows the pattern that all other wanted posters do, which is evidence that it's not an epithet. I'm really curious what "holes" there are if it was his surname. It's been, at this point, treated like a surname every single time it's been written. Having said that, if the Vivre Card bluntly states that "Sir" is a nickname that he received, then that does settle the conversation. It also feels pretty definitive compared to other Vivre Card information because it's actually new info that's never been stated in the story. If Vivre Card says Sir is a nickname...then that's the end of it. Sir is a nickname. Maybe he got it after Ivankov met him shortly after he birthed Luffy. 03:36, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

I just want to point out a similar example to Crocodile that hasn't been mentioned here, Ryuma's Vivre Card lists "Shimotsuki Ryuma" as an epithet as well but later in an SBS he was referred to as Shimotsuki Ryuma so now we treat that as his surname. That being said I do think Sir is an epithet and not his surname, but I don't have strong feelings about it. There are examples of posters with epithets without quoations. I know it was already brought up, but Usopp's poster is God Usopp without quotations, arguing that the Government thinks that's his real name is headcanon, we know it as an epithet. Other examples are Caesar's poster which says "M Caesar Clown" without quotations and Mr. 2's which says "Mr 2 Bon Kurei". DewClamChum (talk) 05:32, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Again though, the wanted poster isn't the only case here. It's also him being listed as "Sir Crocodile" on the Cross Guild sign next to "Dracule Mihawk" (and not "Hawk-Eye Mihawk"), and likewise "Sir Crocodile" being used for his english character intro in the latest chapter again to, again, "Dracule Mihawk". The Pope 07:41, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry for bringing up the wanted poster so much but I just noticed something REALLY interesting with it. The poster does not say "SIR CROCODILE". It actually says, "SIR. CROCODILE". There's a period! I have no idea what this means, but I'm now thinking "Sir" is an abbreviation of some sort. It might just be an error, and I think the Vivre Card trumps this discussion anyways, but still...might be worth keeping an eye on. 07:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

The periods are a Japanese romanization thing and are on a lot of romanized character names, Luffy's also has periods for instance. The periods are because in Japanese his name has a ・ separating the "Sir" and "Crocodile" parts and those just carried over into the romanization for some reason. DewClamChum (talk) 08:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Can we get a full verification on the vivre card thing? Then again, I'm pretty sure if we took the vivre cards as gospel over ambiguous information in the manga, we'd be in a very different situation (cough Yamato cough). The Pope 06:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

The thing is that the manga is not clear about what "Sir" is supposed to be. There's nothing definitive there like Yamato calling himself "Kaidou"s son" in the manga, which confirms his gender identity.

So we kinda need to rely on the Vivre Card for something more concrete. And we have no reason to doubt Awaikage on this one, since we know he has access and can read them. There's nothing in the manga that disproves that Crocodile obtained the epithet of "Sir" at some point after all, so we can treat it as true for the time being. In this case, the Vivre Card isn't gospel, rather it's just the clearest source we have. KingCannon (talk) 12:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Crocodile is such a popular character that numerous pics of his vivre card show up in a simple search. If you want to doubt the translation, then here, give it a go yourself. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 14:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)