Talk:Ton Ton no Mi

Just out of curiousity where did the confirmation of the devil fruit's name come from? 89.99.142.82 18:43, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

SBS 79 18:49, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

do you know where i can read it? i enjoy reading the sbs sections :)  Judge Magister Pyarox  22:30, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Our translator hasn't had the time to translate the most recent SBS as of yet. But you can read a summary here. Hope that helps. 22:36, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

thanks  Judge Magister Pyarox  15:26, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Difference from the Kilo Kilo
Is perhaps the difference between this fruit and Mrs Valentine's is that hers affects her mass while this affects weight? First, there is a metric ton and also a 2000 lb ton. Weight refers to the pull of gravity on an object, while mass is how thick an object is. Kilograms measure mass, and Valentine was able to crash into the ground and avoid being injured because she had a greater mass, making her more durable, while Vise complains of the ground hurting his stomach, possibly meaning he doesn't become any more durable. but this could explain the difference in the power

68.119.71.151 08:25, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

The only difference is the magnitude of the power, otherwise it's the same.

Also the fact that Machvise can only make himself heavier, not lighter.--Xilinoc (talk) 03:43, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure he can since that's how he is able to float in air.

Ton vs. Tonne
I see a fair point brought about by the anonymous user 24.138.142.79: Tons are imperial! Tonnes are metric. They're different units. A ton is 2000 lbs, but a tonne is 1000 kg. To use one when you mean the other is not only grammatically wrong, but mathematically too."  I am curious, therefore, as to why that edit was undone without so much as an explanation. The Dreamer (talk) 01:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Since some users are just being contrarian for the sake of it and I cba to editwar anymore, let's take it here. The anon is absolutely correct in that we either need to put it as tonne or metric ton everywhere, to properly differentiate it from the imperial ton/Long ton. 02:50, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Considering Japan's on the metric system, and its sister fruit is also metric, I think tonne would be the correct choice. 02:54, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_English

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English

Manual_of_Style

Plus it already says metric ton. Tonne isn't correct since we use American English. SeaTerror (talk) 03:00, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

I guess you'll have to change it to "10 metric ton vise" then, since you need to change every instance of ton to "metric ton". 24.138.142.79 06:05, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

In fact, there are still several instances of ton that you keep changing back without adding "metric". The wiki currently claims that " 1 Ton is equal to 1000 Kilograms," despite the fact that that isn't true.

The easiest way to differentiate without making every attack name sound like a bad translation is to use the proper spelling "Tonne" instead of the American way with the modifier "Metric". But if you insist upon making it "metric ton", then you need to make sure that you are consistent, to avoid putting false statements in the article.

I would just like to point out that Oda is obviously thinking of the international standard and not specifically of the american way, given that a) tonnes and kilos are both metric (and so is Japan), and b) he doesn't use the american modifier "meitoriku" (metric) before every instance of "ton". 24.138.142.79 06:26, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

As a non-"imperial" user I can confirm that I always thought the word "ton" meant metric "ton" since I wasn't even aware there were "imperial tons" and "metric tonnes". Since such a difference exists, probably is better to use the word "tonnes" in the article when explaining the powers of the fruit, but I wouldn't go as far as renaming the article. We can just blame Oda for using the word "ton".

Saying we should use imperial tons because of the Manual of Style is like saying we should replace meters with yards even though they are different measurements. 11:32, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Using Ton in the title is fine, since it's the Japanese phonetic spelling, but the issue that needs to be resolved is whether to use the international spelling of "tonne" or the american version: "metric ton", which both refer to 1000 kilograms, as opposed to simply "ton" or "short ton" which refers to 2000 pounds. 142.51.172.142 18:18, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

We have to use ton due to the manual of style. It's American English. Simple as that. Besides as I already said it already says metric ton. "Ton is the short version of metric ton. It was eaten by Machvise." SeaTerror (talk) 18:56, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Once again ST, we can make exceptions to every rule we have as long there is proper discussion. This is a proper discussion, so let's not talk about the MoS as a reasoning here.

If the Japanese unit is the metric one, we use the metric one. That should be how we refer to it in articles. However, that does not mean we have to change the name of the fruit, because we can always make it clear that it's "Ton" instead of "tonne" in the translations section of the article. 19:32, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

We don't know which one Oda used. Plus we would write metric ton on everything. Also making "exceptions" to rules means that the rule is no longer a rule. SeaTerror (talk) 20:13, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

I've changed it to how it would look if we adhere strictly to the "Unbreakable Rulebook of Style". If it seems silly, then it should be changed to "tonne", but it's all or nothing. 142.51.172.142 21:56, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Changing the attack names themselves would most likely be wrong unless Oda stated them to be like that. That's why I left them alone. SeaTerror (talk) 22:26, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

And once again, you edited it to include a false statement.

The article now says "Hakai no Senton Vise ... literally meaning "1000 Ton Vise of Destruction" ..."

This is simply not true. The Japanese name would literally translate to the metric unit "tonne", not the imperial unit "ton". Unless you are disputing whether or not Oda is using metric units, which would make a lot of other statements false ...

If you insist upon using the American english, then in order for that statement to be true, you would need to use the modifier "metric" ton. The name can be either "10 tonne vise", or "10 metric ton vise"; anything else is inaccurate. 24.138.142.79 02:22, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

We need to be accurate in our names, and if ton is more accurate, use tonne. We use American English, not American measurements. Move it to tonne. If the linguistics matter, make an exception to the rule. 23:27, November 22, 2015 (UTC)

Question: are we translating the name or just using the romanization? Because if that's the latter, I don't believe there is much room to discussion... if Oda had called it "gram gram no mi" but still gave it the power of tons, then he would have been just a moron and there would have been nothing we could have done about it.

Let's separate the discussions. Seems like a clear majority for tonne as the unit, but we need the input of our translators for the fruit name. 03:11, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

"and if ton is more accurate, use tonne" Wat. SeaTerror (talk) 05:10, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Title
So which is the more accurate translation of the devil fruit's name based on japanese text, "ton" or "tonne", or does the difference not matter? 03:11, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

None of the other fruit names are translated, so phonetically, tonne tonne would read "toe-nay toe-nay", which would be wrong. I think the title is fine, it's just the use of units within the article that was inaccurate. 24.138.142.79 03:41, November 23, 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry but to make it clear, the British "tonne" sounds the same as the US "ton".

But it would be confusing to have the title be different than the actual unit used. There's very little difference in the pronunciations of "ton" and "tonne", so I think we could get away with changing the name while not alienating it from the Japanese. 03:45, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Can't we just add a note explaining the situation? I mean it's still Oda's problem if he used the wrong word... and I also think that non-English users won't understand the difference either, so it's probably best to actually explain it.

Well, it doesn't matter which translation is more accurate, since we don't translate fruit names even when they're based on English words like Gasu Gasu no Mi. Keep it as Ton Ton, that form better matches the other fruit names anyway. 16:18, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

We translated kilo, as you can tell since it's not "kiro." Since we're working with actual units, we want to be accurate, so this can be an exception to the rule. 02:40, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

But as far as understand "kiro" and "kilo" are both possible romanizations, we just pick the more realistic one. "Tonne", however, is not a possible romanization therefore by using "Tonne" we are actually "translating" the fruit (like Straw Hat Pirates) and not simply choosing a romanization.

We'd only be translating it if Oda's original intention was for it to mean "ton." Otherwise we're fine using "tonne." Also, based on English pronunciation, this fruit could go either way too. 03:08, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

There is not Kilo Kilo no Mi. Romaji does not use L. Its name is Kiro Kiro no Mi, but some people insist on the wrong name. --Klobis (talk) 04:01, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

I think ton is fine.. 04:23, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

May I ask why, JOP? I would think that using tonne would be better to keep things metric. 23:40, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking because (as levi says), tonne isn't a possible romanization, and we typically go for romanizations when it comes to fruit names. If we want to keep "kilo" instead of "kiro" though, I guess we can make an exception here.. 00:19, December 1, 2015 (UTC)

Keep the original romanization. If we translate it to Tonne we might as well call the Gomu Gomu no Mi the Rubber Rubber no Mi; I mean it's not like Luffy is a gum man. 01:13, December 1, 2015 (UTC)

Clear majority for Ton as the title. 17:35, December 12, 2015 (UTC)

Another talk page discussion that could have been solved with rational thinking
The sigh I just gave could have blown the moon out of its orbit. What's the point of the Devil Fruit if he can't lower his weight? Seriously, how ridiculous would it be if one could only make himself heavier and heavier and heavier. Exactly! Very ridiculous! Do we really need written evidence of something this obvious? 16:49, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that does seem logical that after he increases his weight he can then decrease it to normal. But I think ST read the sentence as more like "unlike the Kilo Kilo no Mi, which can decrease the user's weight BEYOND THE NORMAL AMOUNT TO LOW WEIGHTS SUCH AS ONE KILOGRAM, the Ton Ton no Mi blah blah"

Or I've completely misunderstood what this was about.

16:54, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

Never mind this thing, I just interpreted it wrong. 16:56, February 9, 2016 (UTC)