Forum:Meganoide

Editing the talk pages of several anonymous users who received a message for editing a page that has since become a redirect, altering the record of their edit. He has ignored multiple people who have told him to stop multiple times. It falls under vandalism by editing talk page messages.

Punishment: Two week ban.

Nominator: 23:20, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

He doesn't only edit the welcome message of anons but also the welcome message of registered users(!) and even corrects their grammar on their profile pages. Completely unacceptable. 23:43, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

I will stop editing talk pages. I only ask to continue correcting redirects in normal pages. --Meganoide 11:23, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't understand the point of those edits. 12:29, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think is anything wrong with editing the code, since the text will be not altered. For example, if there is a red link in a talk page, it should be fixed otherwise the spacial page associated will be unnecessary populated with the wanted pages, although I also think there isn't really a reason to do that.

No need to ban him if he stops editing talkpages (both article and user). The redirects are no reason to be banned, at least it isn't covered anywhere. 14:32, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't see the point of editing redirects in articles. They go to the same page, so why alter them? 17:09, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Pointless edits that fill the activity.. And he was warned by Yata and DP in the past, and he keeps doing it.. No offence.. And its not good to just correcting welcome messages.. C'mon.. 17:16, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the point as well, but that needs to be discussed separately (it is no vandalism, it doesn't actually harm the wiki and it isn't forbidden).

I can only speculate about his motives, but maybe he doesn't like the "you have been redirected" line that appears when you are.... uhm.... redirected?

After all a redirect implies that you were incapable to find the article you were looking for, you needed a redirection. Really minor and not even worth mentioning.

But whatever, he said he won't edit talkpages anymore, that's all that counts (the code thing is no reason for a ban, yet) 17:42, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

PLS...no BANNING...he just didnt get about the talk page stuff...he was correcting the links....but talk pages were wrong..but I think he can continue editng the redirects:)

They were not wrong. Those were what they originally said so they are right. Editing them for any reason at all is asinine. He even edited article talk page comments before too. SeaTerror 17:57, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Forum Reopen
It has come to my attention that a certain user, who shall remain nameless.......*looks at forum title*...................nvm, it has come to my attention that Meganoide has been running his so called "pointless edits" amuck again. So i declare this forum........REOPEN -- 16:32, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

He has been told repeatedly to stop and has ignored all messages. He also refuses to provide any reason for his edits when asked. I propose a one month ban. 16:44, May 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Some people told him to stop because they don't like his edits, so it's just a matter of opinions and "edit testes", beside the first discussion was about editing other talk pages.

Letting aside the discussion on Meganoide my opinion on the redirect thing is:
 * Fixing not canon name redirects is a good thing, for example something like "Jimbe → Jinbe".
 * Fixing short-name or nickname redirects is irrelevant, I don't see it as a task to do, but I don't see a reason to undo it. Some example "Luffy → Monkey D. Luffy" or "Whitebeard → Edward Newgate", just a note some people may prefer to see the actual name in the tooltip instead of a nickname (Whitebeard vs Whitebeard) (and technically the short-name case is a little different from the nickname case, because the latter is more reasonable in my opinion).
 * Fixing redirect to merged pages as well different topic pages is a bad thing, for example "Gear Second → Gomu Gomu no Mi/Gear Second Techniques" or "Shandian Village → Skypiea#Shandian Village". This is because in these cases the redirect works as an anchor for a concept or a topic different from the page which is redirecting to, this is useful because if in future we decide to make the Gear Second tab a page on its own, we don't have to fix the links.

Now to the main point: I see many people who keep undoing Meganoide's edits because "fixing redirects is pointless", I agree with that but it's also pointless to reword a phrase just because I want or to remove a comma, why do you *must* undo this kind of edit? Think about it: if I make a new article from the beginning, would you change  to  ? Because the real point here, in my opinion, is not "fixing redirects" but "undoing-fixing redirects" and "undoing-undoing-fixing redirects", because as matter of fact it's you people who keep reverting Meganoide's edits who are starting edit wars, Megaonoide can be blamed for continuing them, but it's not him who started it. I think that if "fixing redirects" is pointless than "undoing-fixing redirects" is pointless^2 and "undoing-undoing-fixing redirects" is pointless^3 and so on...

While Meganoides edits are pointless, undoing those edits is even more pointless.

And you should try and notice how stupid it looks on the WA to see a war between contributors start over something as pointless as this. It's like you're just searching for reasons to have an edit war over and you found a perfect one!

There's nothing pointless about undoing his edits. SeaTerror 20:17, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

That's your whim as it's his whim to do those edits, you just arbitrary decided that those edits are not allowed.

Apparently DP doesn't exist in your fantasy world. SeaTerror 20:21, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

The fact remains, he's continued to do it despite being asked to stop multiple times and has failed to give a reason for why he's going over redirects when asked. So as far as I can tell from that he's trying to start edit wars or just trying to find cheap ways to up his edit count. If he has no reason to change a redirect, then why change it? Unless he's trying to irritate us, why fix what isn't broken? 20:22, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I already explained my thoughts about fixing redirects, you said that there is no reason for him to fix redirects, but then I have to say what reason/rights you people have to ask him to stop? Since there is no harm in those edits you just don't like it, that's all. You people are starting edit wars, and he is in wrong because he is continuing them. Why fix what isn't broken? Aside from redirects, because something works it doesn't mean that it's good as it is, some examples are our infoboxes, that degenereted in messy codes and sub-templates or the syntax of most of our pages that doesn't follow any common wiki-syntax style. I usually fix those, so does that make my edits pointless? Is rewording a correct sentence pointless? These kind of things are usually covered by the manual of style, so I'll propose them if we will make one (and we can talk about redirects there too). I don't understand this "pointless" talk at all and it seems weird that people SeaTerror just keep undoing what they feel "pointless". I don't understand what an user here could gain by raising up his edits.

Who doesn't think he outta be banned? It doesn't matter how bad of an action he did. The point is, an admin told him to stop. He didn't. That alone, no matter what you did, is worthy of a ban. But it's cool. We let it slide at first. However, he's consistantly disregarding his warnings. There's no reason at all to let him continue. Admins seem to be loosing there power. They're there for a reason. If an admin tells you to do it, you do it. If an admin tells you repeatedly not to do something, for the love of Oda, don't do it. It's simple. So ban him and ban him hard. 21:07, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

Levi, to answer your question, no, the kind of edits you listed are actually productive since they actually go toward the betterment of the wiki. All Meganoide's doing is putting up an alternate route for a road that isn't broken. Changing them doesn't help, they are, as SeaTerror put it, edit fluff. And also it's just his general rudeness about the whole thing. I probably wouldn't be half as irritated by it if he gave a reason for it, instead of ignoring the question and accusing anyone who tells him off of being detrimental to the site. Going back to what I said earlier, that as well would make it just seem like he's just trying to irritate us. Redirects are just as good as straight links, so why alter something that is already perfectly fine, and dare I say just plain convenient? Attitude and lack of reason have as much to do with this as fluffing up his edits by making pointless changes. 21:42, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

If we are talking about his attitude, then I have nothing to say. About the redirects I kinda understand why he does that, I also usually don't use redirect-links when I'm adding links because I found more "right" to point in the actual article rather then a mirror to it, I just thought that redirects were useful in for searches. Fixing redirects it's not so out the world, I sometimes use a wiki-editor that have an option called "fix redirect" which automatically fix all redirect in a page. On this matter aside from the "short name redirects" (Zoro → Roronoa Zoro), I somewhat don't fell right in using nickname redirects, for the same reason why we don't use common surname for the article's title. I still don't understand the whole matter about "we told you to stop" (because we don't like it), that's a personal point of view, in my opinion. He was told to not edit other people's messages without a reason, this is a different topic.

Well, we don't use the common surnames because of cases of muliplicity. If I searched Monkey or Nico, there'd be no way of knowing who meant I specifically. They are useful in searches, at least before wikia ruined the search feature, so now they're convenient in making quick links. The way I see it, redirects should only be touched again if they get broken, an example would be if we found a link to one of the recently deleted redirect pages, like a direct link to "Pirate Hunter Zoro". That's fine. The main issue I have with it is Meganoide was making edits that weren't contributive, then he didn't provide any reasons for his apparent hatred of redirects despite being asked multiple times, and finally was just rude when he was asked to stop. Redirects overall are just a piece of the bigger problem at this point. 22:40, May 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I meant "nickname redirects" (Whitebeard → Edward Newgate). As a side-note, technically if you correct the redirects from the beginning the chances of creating broken links in the future will drop.

Well I don't understand much about Redirects .. to tell you the truth I have no idea what Redirects are >_> but from the common-member point of view .. all I am seeing is a member defying and ignoring a Admin's warnings and requests. This whole discussion about the importance of Redirects .. lets just put it aside in different forum to discuss later. Right now the question is about Meganoide's attitude toward DP. Is it really this easy to oppose a admin's directions? can edits likes these should be continued regardless of all warnings? are personal opinion and values really more important then other's? I may not be one to talk in matters of edit-rages but still, upon warning from a admin you should halt your action and think it threw. if you look at the whole picture .. tomorrow any new member can defy a admin's or a regular member's warnings just cause he/she thinks that they are wrong. I am sure that regular members who have been on this wiki for years, won't like seeing this kinda behaviors from someone whose has no idea how this wiki functions. Its total disrespect to authority and misleading examples for upcoming members. So right now the main thing to discuss is Meganoide's attitude toward DP and I found it really wrong. Instead of keep opposing DP's warning, he should have opened a forum and discussed it threw like we always have. so this was my thought .. now ignore me like I am dead >_> MDM out. 23:03, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

For the love of god, not this same shit again... Fills the activity with pointless edits, really (really) unecessary edits, the link redirects to the same page, so there isnt really any point to put 'Monkey D. Luffy' in front of 'Luffy'. (Thats why we have the ..) Clearly Meganoide doesnt listen to us, or more importantly to DP (an admin). He stopped for several months just to let this thing gets out of our heads and now he is on it again. And other users undo his work....... and he does the same thing. Can't continue like that. I propose a poll to decide what is his punishment.

@MDM: A redirect is a page that redirects to another, which its name implies. For example Luffy points to Monkey D. Luffy, their purpose is to avoid red-links and (some time ago) to redirect an user when to the right page when making a search.

@LPK: "so there isnt really any point to put 'Monkey D. Luffy' in front of 'Luffy'. (Thats why we have the ..)", that's not why we have the brackets, the brackets are simply the wiki-syntax to make a link that's all, if you put a pipe "|" you can display a different text from what you are actual linking. If there wasn't the page Luffy then this link wouldn't be existed. And as I said before, the activity feed was filled by those continuing undoing the edits.

About the "an admin asked you that" I'm don't really agree, an admin is not much more than an editor in a wiki (we are not any site on its own), so an admin's opinion is not really unquestionable. After said that, I agree that since admins are trusted users, if one asked you to stop doing something you should first clear things up (maybe even ask other users) before continuing doing so. As matter of fact, the whole fix/not fix redirects thing is a matter of opinions.

This whole redirect thing is a matter of personal opinion. There is nothing that is better about either side that is better than the other, so I think that it is stupid trying to argue which is better. The problem here is that Meganoide has been warned to stop and hasn't, and has also been unable to provide a reasonable explanation for himself as to why he decided to do his own thing and not listen to everyone else. In fact, has he even been informed of this forum? If he cannot provide a reasonable explanation, then I fully support a ban. 00:15, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

@Levi: An admin is not the same as a common user. If the admin warns the user, the user should listen to him and stop doing what he does. An admin knows best. In this case an admin and 5 other people told him to stop but he didnt listen. And yes the activity was filled by undoing the edits of Meganoide. Its unecessary edits but if someone makes them you shouldnt undo them, cause its not bad editing. Its only just annoying..

But if someone doesnt listen to warnings, and does whatever he wants, then he gets on people's nerves. Right?

@Pacifista15: Yeah that's right: the redirects thing doesn't really matter in this case, his behavior it's what matters. But you missed something: "Meganoide has been warned to stop", as far I investigated, with the previous part of this forum he was warned, we can say, by the community to not edit other user's messages, that's all. Now he was warned by other user "to not fix redirects", but as you said "There is nothing that is better about either side that is better than the other" hence the "warning" is pointless by itself. What right I have to "warn" you to not make an edit that isn't counter-productive? The only thing that can have relevance is that he was warned by an admin, but again the "warning" was based on a personal opinion, not a wiki rule, so I have some doubts that it counts as "warning". So the only thing I believe we can argue on, it's his attitude towards other users, that's all.

@LPK: in a wiki an admin is a user with some special rights, it's not like a staff member, and I also said that if an admin ask you something, you should clear things up first, but that's not because an admin's word is a command. Although I said that, I recognize that an admin opinion should be considered more than just a normal user, but still not in an absolute sense. Though each wiki can have it's own rule, read this.

I didnt say that we all must do whatever the admin wants. Just that his opinion counts more. This is not a case where only the admin wants that to happen anyways. Other people agreed as well.


 * Some people are not the community, but I agree that he should have stopped and clear things up.


 * Well, these are the people that got involved with this situation. You can't expect all of the users in this wiki to participate in this conversation.

After reading over the recent discussion between DancePowderer and Meganoide here and here, I found that Meganoide was asked to give a valid reason for why he was doing the edits and merely blew them off. The least he could have done was give a reason for why he hates redirects, but he decided to 1) Continue what he was doing and 2) Disrespect other people. If someone asks you why you did something, I think it's courteous to reply as to why, but maybe that's just me. 00:47, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

You are right, but I feel like pointing out that the reason why the other people undid his edits was "because it's pointless", to me those edits are just the same of Meganoide's, so why are you not asking those people to stop and provide a valid reason of their edits?

This reminds me of that time when a kid was shot down by police officers for possession of a weapon. The gun was fake and most likely a toy but the police didn't know that. The child was told repeatedly to put the "gun" down. In the end he was shot and killed. Who do u blame the police officers who were doing their job or the dumbass kid who didn't know the consequences? This is the same, DP is an admin and a good admin at that. When he tells u to do something u better do it no matter his reasoning. If u don't stop it means u either don't trust him or u don't trust his judgement but in the end u still get shot, in this case banned. You know why? Cause u didn't fuckin listen.-- 09:46, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Then the problem is that he didn't stop to clear things up, I agree with that, but it's not about his edits which some people don't like. Anyway there is still a poll, before getting banned, I think this forum is more like a real warning rather the a step before the ban, because even SeaTerror didn't get banned twice after much more worse things, in my opinion.

Thats from 'Die Hard', Hungry........


 * No its not, it happened in Texas -_- im serious look it up smart ass 15:24, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Like my girlfriend, this'll be short and sweet. It's not like we're giving him the death penelty here. It's a ban. The wiki is a work-productive-environment. If you were at work and your boss told you to stop something over and over and you didn't, you'd be fired. This isn't a life inprisonment for Meganoide. He can still read the articles and everything. We just don't want him to make his useless edits, so we're suspending his editting license. 12:07, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Many times we said that but in the end didn't do it, look at SeaTerror's case, I think that was much worse than this, there is nothing wrong of doing useless edits, because those edits were demanded useless from only a group of people (no wiki decision was made on that). The only fault I see here is his stubborness, that's all.

Seriously, this is getting really annoying... A poll is needed, to decide if he has to be banned for a while, or to see if people agree with this editing and let it be.

Well this is dragging forever .. but there is one thing that really annoys me .. and that is that even after all this talk on this forum .. Levi is the only one who is saying something from Meganoide's side but Meganoide himself has yet not said anything from his side. Not a explanation for his edits or nor a disagreement with his ban. Does that mean that he has nothing to say in his defense? This whole forum is about whether we should ban him or not and he has yet so has anything in his defense. I would really request Meganoide to come to this forum and say something. I am just like P15, if he cannot provide a reasonable explanation, then I fully support a ban. 16:19, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

That actually did happen in Texas, In my area in Dallas. (From Dallas) 23:21, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Technically that example is off: it should be "a kid was drawing something and a police officer came asking what he was drawing, then after not having an aswer for many times he shot down the kid". Your analogy is off because the "fake gun" implies something potentially dangerous, fixing redirect can't be dangerous at all.

Voting
This poll will close at 00:00 on May 23rd, 2012. To vote you must have been here for at least 3 months, and have at least 300 edits.

Do you think Meganoide should be banned?

Ban
 * 16:13, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:16, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:19, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 16:21, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) (for a while, yea)
 * 2)   21:28, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3)   Feel the cold sting of the ban-hammer on your begging cheek!
 * 4)   00:12, May 16, 2012 (UTC) A week should do it
 * 5) SeaTerror 00:24, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6)  05:21, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7)  06:14, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8)  18:04, May 16, 2012 (UTC) Not perma ban though
 * 9)  12:06, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 10)  12:09, May 17, 2012 (UTC) *clap clap*
 * 11)  14:15, May 17, 2012 (UTC) (Constant sparking of edit wars warrants a ban)
 * 12) I&#39;d rather not beat you to death with a slightly heavy silver spoon 22:29, May 17, 2012 (UTC) What a moron.
 * 1)  14:15, May 17, 2012 (UTC) (Constant sparking of edit wars warrants a ban)
 * 2) I&#39;d rather not beat you to death with a slightly heavy silver spoon 22:29, May 17, 2012 (UTC) What a moron.

No Ban
 * 1) (OnePieceNation) (OnePieceNation 23:27, May 15, 2012 (UTC))
 * 2)  (some did far worse and were not banned)
 * 3) Klobis 00:59, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Why must we use redirects? Undoing-Undoing-Undoing-fixing redirects... pointless.
 * 1) Klobis 00:59, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Why must we use redirects? Undoing-Undoing-Undoing-fixing redirects... pointless.

Vote Discussion
Shouldn't we specify the poll a bit? I mean with the lenght of the ban? Because I wouldn't want Meganoide to be Perma-banned, although a small ban wouldn't hurt

Probably if the ban option wins, then we will make another poll for the length.

Can we add a no opinion section? 22:44, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

If you don't have an opinion, then why do you want to vote? 22:49, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

So people don't think I'm lazy about forums...... 22:51, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt anyone cares. 23:18, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

True. XDXD 23:20, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Now should we decide the length?

A month at least. SeaTerror 16:09, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

How about a week as a minimum, and a permanent (not that I think anyone might vote for that "lenght") as max?

Sorry, I thought the forum was already ended... but that's strange, first time seeing one being banned in advance. About the length, we just add the options as usual and one will vote for what he think is right, but again, may I remind all of you that Meganoide did not break any rule and basically all the problems started because some users don't like his edits for personal tastes only? The only fault he may did was not give a full explanation when DP inquired the reason behind his edits, I don't even know if he ever insulted anybody, he sure used sarcasm, but as if no other users here did the same. I feel this ban definetly not common, but it's not the end of the world.