Talk:Peeker

Redirect
. It doesn't matter if it's a very stupid translation. It's still on one of the most popular manga reading sites, and should therefore be a redirect. 15:52, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

One mistake after months of consistency does not mean it needs a redirect. We only use redirects if the name was spelled wrong consistently before we learn the correct spelling. In this case, we already know Pica is correct due to contextual evidence. 17:49, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

That isn't all redirects are for though. Mistranslations definitely apply, no matter how stupid they are, or how much they have appeared. 18:23, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

If they do not consistently call him Peeker, then the redirect is not necessary in my opinion. But it does not hurt to have it either…

A one time mistake does not call for a redirect. 03:19, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

How does having it as a redirect hurt the wiki? It can only benefit it. 03:36, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Benefiting from a useless redirect? That's a new one. SeaTerror (talk) 03:50, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

It's used on a very popular manga reading site, so it definitely has a benefit. 04:01, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Not if it's just a one time mistake. People aren't so stupid as to instantly think Peeker is right and start calling him that. It's a waste of space. We don't have to dumb down everything just because you think people are too dumb to use reason. 07:35, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

You keep looking at it from the perspective of a knowledgeable person. Look at it from the perspective of someone who is reading Mangapanda, sees that name, and somehow wonders who it is. Assuming that nobody will look up the name is just silly. So yeah, once again, you aren't explaining how it's harmful to have this redirect (Also, there is no such thing as a waste of space on a wiki. It has unlimited space.)

Also, funnily enough, your argument that it needs to be used more than once didn't stop you from deleting BB (which is used in a lot of the older chapters, on many manga hosting sites.) 07:39, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Will you please stop trying to equate harmfulness and usefulness? Just because something is not detrimental doesn't mean we need it. Think about  the likelihood of this redirect getting used. The more you think about it, the smaller it gets. If the reader can't see that Peeker is a mistake, then that's their problem, not ours. 08:05, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

unless they continue to use "peeker" as his name there isnt really any good reason to have this page, even as a redirect-- 17:35, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah DP, still not agreeing with you. The fact that it's used once at all means that someone will search for it. It doesn't matter if the likelihood is small. As long as there is any use for a redirect, it should be used (and in this case, one of the most popular manga reading sites made a mistake, that many people are seeing.) 17:50, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

You're now going to have to prove somebody would actually search for it. SeaTerror (talk) 18:02, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

It's not like Mangastream used this translation before, and they'll hopefully go back to the right one next week. No reader is going to read that version of Pica's name without already reading it correctly in preceding chapters. And ST, now you're just being deliberately antagonistic. 18:06, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Nope Nova. Learn what the burden of proof is. He made a claim so he has to now prove its true. SeaTerror (talk) 18:08, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously, if it's on a site, it will be searched for at least once (especially if on Mangapanda.)

Nova, even if it is a very very stupid translation, it should still belong as a redirect, due to its use. 19:06, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Gal. You still didn't gave any reason why NOT to make the redirect, is it harmful? And no its not useless since people will not remember somebody named Peeker and they will come here to search for him. 19:23, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

No they won't since it was only used once in a recent chapter when Pica was already used in previous chapters. SeaTerror (talk) 20:08, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

You really believe that everybody that reads OP remember all the names?! 20:18, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

I think you need to reread what I said. SeaTerror (talk) 20:34, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

SeaTerror, you continue to look at it from the perspective of a wiki user, and not a random reader. You must let go of all bias regarding these things. 20:37, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

There is no bias. A random reader would already know the name because Pica had already been used. SeaTerror (talk) 20:57, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

just saying when you search for "peeker" pica is the third page that comes up (first two are sabo and issho for some reason) so i have no doubt anyone looking for peeker will be able to find pica-- 21:35, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Why not just redirect it? 21:44, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

No?. 22:40, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

ok, its the second page not the third, w/e-- 22:43, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

You guys get search results? When I type Peeker in it just takes me back here. Which, if you think about it kind of makes this whole farce redundant. But seriously though, htf does typing Peeker get me back here? 00:46, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

idk, this talk page doesnt even appear in the search results when i search for peeker-- 00:57, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Regardless of how this cybernecromancy works, it seems like we're pretty agreed that this thing should stay dead. We can close this talk. 04:27, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

It's just one redirect,there's nothing wrong with having it-there's nothing wrong in not having it either :|--

Not just this redirect DP. SeaTerror (talk) 04:39, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Don't worry. This is the only one someone gives a crap about. The rest will be smooth sailing. 05:42, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

Meh, I deleted a few redirects like this one these days and gal recreated them. Anyway close this talk and let it be forgotten~ 06:34, January 31, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with DancePowderer. Unless MangaPanda continues to use "Peeker" in the next chapters, we shouldn't bother creating a redirect. A one-time mistake (hopefully) does not make it an alternative name. MasterDeva (talk) 17:04, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Guys we need to discuss this whole redirect making thing, we're getting way way too many uselesss ones that shouldn't be. 17:06, February 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * If we are to discuss the entire issue about name redirects we should do so the forums and not here. MasterDeva (talk) 17:12, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Tell DP to unprotect this then. Forum:Redirects_and_Other_Link_Issues SeaTerror (talk) 17:09, February 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * You beat me to it. MasterDeva (talk) 17:12, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Why is a forum protected? 17:10, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

The above forum was not created to discuss cases like this one. It had to do with issues that where raised about our Manual of Style. I suggest we create a new one concerning this topic. MasterDeva (talk) 17:15, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

No. I need to bump that one anyway. SeaTerror (talk) 17:18, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

They are different things though. Unless you are thinking more along the lines of keeping the number of forum threads to a minimum. MasterDeva (talk) 17:21, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Peeker? Obviously a translation error (out of sheer hastiness, as MangaPanda is known and somewhat infamous for), since all three suit-seated elite officers have their names derived from the four suits: Diamante, Trebol and Pica (not Peeker, as in "peeking")? I don't think MangaPanda is the most reliable source for name translation issues. 04:51, February 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * But then again, since we are using "Trevor" for Trebol, why not? Some wiki (such as Bleach) do keep these incorrect translation as redirects for some reason. 04:53, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Trevor was for when he was first introduced not much later. SeaTerror (talk) 06:42, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. Mangastream (mangapanda just took their version this chapter) used Pica in every chapter so far, and changed it.for some reason this time. It's not like a brand new character was introduced.

11:57, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Definitely isn't mangastream. They just took their scans, not the translations. 12:04, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

No, Nova's (mostly) right. Check every other page and word - Panda stole MS's scanlation, which initially included Peeker. MS later issued a version 2 which had Pica, but Panda didn't update the original. All the more reason not to have this as a redirect. 12:10, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

i agree with DancePowderer a one time mistake does not call for a redirect, but if they do it again we should ad it Lord Gaimon (talk) 12:17, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Since it's still on Panda, the reason to have a redirect still stands. Thousands of people can still read the stupid thing. 12:26, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

and the reasons not to have a redirect still stand as well-- 16:41, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

The reasons to not have a redirect are "just because". They've really given no real reason why this redirect would hurt the wiki (it can only improve our search function.) 16:43, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

the reasons not to have a redirect is because its a mistake, not his actual name and even when you search "peeker" into the wiki's search engine peeker is one of the top results, we dont need a redirect-- 16:53, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

A translation error is actually a very good reason to have a redirect, especially when it's on one of the most popular manga reading sites.

As I already said, what you're saying is not true. You get nothing if you search for Peeker. 16:55, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

well i do, so i guess your cpu is messed up-- 16:58, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe if you tick more options to search, but a new user to the wiki (or an inexperienced one) will have no idea how to do that.

Also, a computer's CPU has nothing to do with wikia search results. You don't need a good processor to do such a simple task. 16:59, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

w/e there's still not a single good reason to have it-- 17:01, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I could say the same about removing it, but it's all opinion based in the end.

The hard facts have been presented though, so really, give a way that it hurts the wiki to have an improved search function. Can you do that? 17:03, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

its useless-- 17:05, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

It can't be useless if it's used on one of the most popular manga reading sites. Thousands of people are seeing it. 17:07, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

and thousand are realizing its a translation error-- 17:09, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Give it up Gal. You're the only one who wants this waste of a redirect, and quite frankly a waste of our time. Raven's right. People aren't as stupid as you'd like to think. They'll know it's an error when they see it. That's just common sense and judgment. It doesn't have to be detrimental to be unwanted and useless. Either you're asking that to be a smartass or you really can't distinguish between what's useful and what's unneeded. 17:58, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Right, so still no explanation about it being harmful.

What you said isn't true by the way. Multiple people are neutral, and Apo says it should be made. 18:10, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

dude just give it up, its of no good use to the wiki-- 18:11, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

When will you learn that something doesn't have to be harmful for it to be unwanted or useless? 18:13, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

The general rule I like to follow is if you can find the translation on the internet now, (especially on the most visited sites, like MP, MS, Mangahere/whatever the fuck a bunch of people use that's not a scanlation provider's site) no matter how bad the translation is, we should have the redirect. If it's really bad and not used by most scans, then we don't always need to have a translation errors section on it, but we should at least have the redirect. Redirects are easy and they don't hurt our pages.

And I think this situation where MS didn't use this spelling before actually makes people pretty likely to look it up. I know a few people who don't keep up w/ OP weekly and read it a bunch of chapters at a time, and they tend to forget names pretty often. So a year from now if you hadn't read since 735, you might use the wiki to remind yourself who "Peeker" is. But if you find jack shit, then you'll just be extra confused. 19:58, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Yep, 100% agreed with JSD. 20:00, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I agree as well. 20:25, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Meh, some people are already using "Peeker" (shivers); I changed my mind. We should add the redirect, just in case, to be safe. MasterDeva (talk) 21:33, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Nobody is using Peeker. You're imagining it. SeaTerror (talk) 21:43, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Should we poll it already? 21:51, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Let's see...

... and so on. 21:55, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

And the award for finding a few copy-paste jobs on some of the most obscure forums goes to... 21:58, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Ok we should not even poll it. DP u like it or not, these people will come here to find their information. 22:01, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

No they won't. SeaTerror (talk) 22:07, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Why? Is this wiki only for active users like us? 22:24, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Oh that stupid argument again? SeaTerror (talk) 22:26, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Which you didn't answered. 22:29, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

We're talking about the lowest common denominator. And I should point out that most of those posts were corrected by if not the writer then by a later post. 22:32, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

And yet, those "lowest common denominators" are still people that may search for this page. It's obvious from the various links that some people are/were confused (and I really doubt every single confused person has posted about it online.) 22:33, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

If it were used more than one time in the chapter, I'd agree, but it was used once and then Pica was used for the rest of the chapter. That's a screw-up if I've ever seen one. 22:39, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

A screw up that exists online for all to see, like every other screw up that we've redirected. 22:40, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I should point out that Stream already corrected it. Come next week readers aren't even going to remember Peeker. 22:52, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I honestly don't see what the big deal is in creating a redirect of it. It's a common name in some scanlations and as such people will look for the name on the wiki and won't find it since for some reason we are arguing over creating a 10 byte line. The more redirects available the merrier.

Common name, LOL. SeaTerror (talk) 02:13, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, SeaTerror, since maybe 50% of the manga readers read mangapanda it's a common name. Again, I'm not saying it's correct, but it's common in the community, so there.

Nope. It isn't a common name since it was a one off translation. SeaTerror (talk) 04:24, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Bring this back up when the scanlators screw his name up again. A one time mistake doesn't warrant anything. 05:36, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Like Sewil said,I dont see why a 10byte redirect hurts.--

i changed my mind a 10byte redirect won't hurt the wiki and it's not entirely useless  18:09, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

I was asked to give my opinion about it, so here I am. First, tl;dr the whole of it. Second, DP already pointed out that Pica is the actual name of the person (article) and it has already an evidence, so why keep a redirect? It wont hurt, but its not like it has some sense.

If you didn't understand the reasons why we should redirect it, reread the discussion. 18:37, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Because nobody would actually be using it. SeaTerror (talk) 19:03, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Don't know how you can say that after reading those forum posts. 19:06, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

because no one would not be able to find the pica page if they went looking for peeker and the number of people who would look for peeker could be counted with a single finger-- 03:14, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I do remember Sanji calling Crocodile "Croc-of-shit" in a note he left on Mr. 3 (chapter 175, last page). If we add Peeker, should we add Croc-of-shit as well (though this was based on the translator of the time, like Smoker telling his superiors to eat shit, surely the official translations would not use such crude translations)? Luffy also refers Smoker as "Smokey", but someone seems to have gotten rid of that redirect (I was the one who made it, if I recall). 04:33, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

That doesn't seem very related to this issue Yata, since that's just an in-series insult like Luffy calling DD "Bird-man", etc.

I think we obviously need a poll about the use of mistranslated redirects somewhere. What we need to decide if this, a mistranslation that occurred only after correct translations is a special case and needs a separate poll from one in a forum. 16:26, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

I'd say leave this talk page on hold for now and make a forum about all the redirects of this kind. Then we can act based on the forum's outcome. 16:41, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

That's why I said the redirect forum needs to be unlocked. It was protected for no reason. SeaTerror (talk) 16:58, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

A general poll for future cases would be the best solution. 20:33, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

It seems the discussion is finished. We should poll it. 21:08, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

I thought we were going to put it on a forum for all of them. SeaTerror (talk) 21:12, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

I have one more example: Mangastream used Peeker for chapter 736, but they used Vicar for chapter 722, page 12! Talk about really rash translation. 07:10, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

I don't get all this fuzz. It's just a redirect which, in worst case scenario, will never be noticed by anyone. But even if just one visitor uses it in the future, it will have fulfilled its purpose. However, for those who for some reason don't want the redirect I propose this alternative: We create a "Misstranslations and dub issues" section on Pica's page and put the word "Peeker" there. That way when someone searches the word, Pica's article will appear in the search results. Win-win.