Forum:Someone explain Enma vs Shusui?

In One Piece we've learned to rate swords by their quality as Meito graded swords. Mihawk and Whitebeard both had swords in the top Meito class, the best 10 swords in the world, and we knew this was because their swords were the strongest in the world.

So why is Zoro suddenly so much stronger with Enma? It's the same Meito grade as Shusui. It should be a sidegrade, or somewhat close in power, and not this overwhelming upgrade like it's being presented. I no longer understand what the different sword grades mean anymore.

Can someone explain why two swords of the same meito class could be so different in power? Is the meito class a flawed indicator of strength, and it was just coincidence that WB and Mihawk both have swords in the top 10 Meito class?

Blaisem (talk) 04:20, September 18, 2019 (UTC)

Enma and Shusui are both O Wazamono or Great grade swords. Enma has shown to be far stronger than Shusui. As stated on the wiki page, Enma is the only weapon in the series the directly effects the user Haki on its on accord, which means that Enma is the only weapon so far with a unique ability. Shusui is already a "Black Blade" and we've seen that in the hands of Zoro that it can further be blackened with Haki/Busoshoku Haki. My guess and this is my theory, before becoming a permanent "Black Blade", Shusui was one of the Ryo Wazamono or Skilled grade swords. The lastest chapter gave us new information. When Enma is turned into a permanent "Black Blade", it will rise in rank to Saijo O Wazamono or Supreme grade sowrds. Even though there the same class, Enma has yet to become a "Black Blade" when Shusui already is, and I highly doubt we've seen Enma used on a mastered level yet so im sure even greater feats than last chapter are waiting. Besides Zoro's feats from last chapter are greater than anything he's done up til now in the enitre series in my opinion and that was just an accident with just one sword. Im sure Enma will become Zoro's favorite sword once he's mastered it and he will have a Saijo O Wazamono or Supreme grade sword to battle Mihawk with.(Cman12 (talk) 05:49, September 18, 2019 (UTC))

So you're saying that the Meito grade is dynamic and can increase when it becomes a black blade? That would make sense. It would mean that the Enma is technically a grade better than Shusui, the Shusui only being O Wazamono because it was blackened. That would explain why Enma is stronger, despite also being O Wazamono.

However, this theory implies one of two scenarios. Either a) by the same logic Shusui is technically a grade weaker than Enma, Zoro would still have a weaker blade in Enma than Mihawk and WB, who blackened Saijo O Wazamono swords, which should be stronger than blackening an O Wazamono sword like Enma. Or b) if Zoro finally has a sword in Enma that's on par with Mihawk and WB, then it implies that both Mihawk and WB also began with O Wazamono blades that became Saijo upon blackening, and no Saijo O Wazamono grade swords existed that aren't black blades.

I guess the question becomes: Does a non-blackened Saijo O Wazamono blade exist? If one already exists, then I'm less inclined to believe the theory, since it would mean Enma would still be outclassed by the possibility of blackening a Saijo O Wazamono grade sword. We know Zoro is going to end up as the strongest swordsman in the world, which means he must wield a sword that is comparable to or better than any other sword seen so far. If this theory is true and the only path to Saijo O Wazamono is to blacken an O Wazamono blade, then Zoro has finally succeeded and that's great. On the other hand, if it's not Enma, and this theory isn't true, then it still wouldn't make sense why the Enma is so much stronger than Shusui.

The only third possibility is that it's not Enma, and this theory is true; in other words, that Zoro has to yet to find a non-blackened Saijo O Wazamono sword, which upon blackening would reach a new grade of sword that doesn't exist yet. It would be hype, but the series is running out of time to take this road and properly develop it. Probably the Shodai Kitetsu would be a great candidate, considering Zoro is definitely going to replace a crappy fourth tier sword like the Sandai Kitetsu, and it would logically follow to be replaced by its brother the Shodai. It just just lacks the proper mythos to fill his #1 sword spot, as compared to Enma, which scratched Kaido and was wielded by the shogun of all Wano, or the Wado Ichimonji, which is his past's heirloom. If the series had more time, this mythos could be developed by Zoro first mastering the Nidai, and then by virtue of mastering both Sandai and Nidai, is capable of wielding the most cursed sword ever in history, the Shodai, which no one could wield before him, and then he eventually also blackens it. But there's no time to go for 3 more swords, Enma, Nidai, and Shodai, with Zoro. He took over 10 years for his last 3 swords.

Blaisem (talk) 06:07, September 19, 2019 (UTC)