Did Vista beat Mihawk? You can't use that as an argument Mihawk didn't sweat in the whole war, he didn't care about it

But also in the division commander stuff, I refuse to believe Ace is the strongest after Marco even though he’s 2nd commander.

I mean to just obviously vista didn’t sh*t on Mihawk, and probably couldn’t since you can’t really gauge Mihawk in terms of strength and his full potential and also Shanks falls into that same category.

1. We didn't see anything about him, he clashed for 3 days for Jinbe and could have gone for longer, and Jinbe uses water to fight, so yeah, I think he can be the 2nd commander

2. He actually was taking Oden's place, because the place was vacant, wich means that that place was for Oden(and it also means Marco is stronger than Oden)

Not necessarily, Marco was in the crew first, it’s not like WB is just gonna kick him out of 1st division. And with that logic aswell, Luffy and Marco are pretty even in strength, idk how the manga is gonna play but Luffy is coming back for round idek against Kaido. The whole division rankings doesn’t work out cuz Marco>Kaido if Luffy beats Kaido? Also, Oden is easily above Marco in combat, i don’t see why Marco would be demoted, WB could give less of a crap about division ranking.

1. Marco>=Luffy

2. Team effort

3. If you are equal to somebody but that somebody becomes stronger, you don't automatically become stronger, you have to become strong by your own effort

4. How does that have to be something bad about commanders? Marco is stronger than Luffy even if he isn't a commander

What I was getting at was you think Marco>Oden correct? If cheap tactics weren’t used during the fight, Oden could’ve gotten a win over Kaido but because they used dirty tricks, Oden got clocked in the back of the head. the whole defeat of Kaido is another story...but regardless of that, my point was Marco~Kaido are similar in strength? According to your Marco>Oden logic.

Oden wouldn't have won, Kaido wasn't serious, and Oden got knocked by a single, human form attack, so do you think he stood a chance against a hybrid form ragnarok smack in the face? No

Scans in case you need them...

Clearly showing Oden hurting Kaido to a serious level. Then a momonosuke hostage situation, and he gets hit in the back of the head by a charged up Kaido attack. If I see anything in these pictures it’s Oden damaging Kaido seriously, and Kaido’s bleeding from his mouth after that.

Kaido was definitely serious, he’s gassed and bleeding after the fight.