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Males Edit

Shouldn't it be renamed males ? .. as Pirate captains , Slaves ,etc ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roranoa zoro (talk • contribs) 14:29, April 21, 2011. Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!

Bump. This category (and female) is inconsistent with most of our other ones.

  Galaxy 9000   02:07, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

It's fine. One single letter is not worth the irritation of having to create a new category and replace it on every page.DancePowderer Talk 02:33, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

It can be done with a bot, so it's hardly an irritation.   Galaxy 9000   02:34, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with renaming it. Lelouch Di Britannia Talk Page  03:29, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, if a bot does it, I don't have a problem with both categories being renamed. But that's only if a bot does it. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 13:01, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Males is better, use a bot. Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 13:14, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

No, no, no. Male is definitely better....  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  14:12, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

How? Lelouch Di Britannia Talk Page  14:14, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

All other categories are plural, Staw.   Galaxy 9000   14:20, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Plural.--Roranoa zoro Talk|||14:31,10/22/2013

Every other category we have which describes the character is a plural. Keep in consistency. Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 14:50, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'll have to go with Staw here. I don't agree with plural grammar-wise. Now, I don't know exactly how to explain it in english, but here it goes. Unlike other categories, this one has an epithet as a title, instead of a noun. Male is a word that characterises the objective of the sentence. If you want so bad to have plural, then you can use "Male Characters" as a title. The word "males" is just a bad, bad word for me.. Vaztalk 15:54,10/22/2013

What Vaz said.DancePowderer Talk 16:05, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Male Characters works.   Galaxy 9000   16:55, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Grammar is why I was against changing all the other categories to plural in the first place. SeaTerror (talk) 18:44, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

The category name is just fine as it is. No need to change it just for the sake of editing.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  18:44, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

It can be done by a bot Staw, so nobody is gaining anything.   Galaxy 9000   18:45, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Grammar is the reason not to change it. SeaTerror (talk) 19:11, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Male Characters is correct.   Galaxy 9000   19:20, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

It's fine as is.DancePowderer Talk 19:25, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Most of the people here don't seem to think that.   Galaxy 9000   19:32, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Looks like a three way poll to me. All options are almost equally rooted for. Vaztalk 19:33,10/22/2013

What we have is just as acceptable as the ideas proposed. The way I see it Roa just wants this so he can give his bot a workout. Don't fix what isn't broken.DancePowderer Talk 19:38, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

I love all the tiny details that cause a debate. uknownada Talk 19:58, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Don't assume DP. Roa might want to do it to make things consistent. Anyways, yeah, gonna have to poll it I guess.   Galaxy 9000   20:06, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

There's no need to poll anything. Changing it would just be the pot calling the kettle black.DancePowderer Talk 20:19, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Male Characters seems good.--Roranoa zoro Talk|||13:06,10/23/2013

We either rename all the other ones, or make this one plural. Things need to be consistent so things can be done in an organized way.   Galaxy 9000   14:32, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

This is not like the other words. You can't say "Males", it just sounds wrong.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  14:36, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

You can, but Male Characters also works (and sounds better and more specific anyways).   Galaxy 9000   14:38, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

"Males" sounds a bit awkward, but it is still grammatically correct. What Vaz is talking about is the use of "Males" as a plural noun, which it can be used for. An example of this is the phrase "preference for males" or something similar. "Male Characters" seems odd to me because none of our other categories are named "Pirate Characters" or "Shichibukai Characters". The word "characters" is unneeded. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 14:46, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

@JSD : "Pirate Characters" would be unneeded since "Pirate" is a noun. Here "Male" and "Female" are adjectives, so it's different.
That said, I don't really care either way. They're adjectives, the "characters" is implicit, short names are nice. On the other hand extreme consistency is nice too. sff9 15:47, October 23, 2013

Not everything has to be perfectly 100% consistent. I'd rather have something inconsistent that works fine than replace it for the sake of replacing. It isn't hurting anything now, save for a few peoples' OCD. It's only a problem because you want it to be. You're making a mountain out a non-existent mole hill.DancePowderer Talk 15:54, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

How does changing it hurt the wiki DP? Having a system keeps things organized. Can't see any advantage to keeping it the same.   Galaxy 9000   15:56, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Male is actually a noun in this context though, Sff. "Males" are what are in the category, it is not describing anything. We need to look at it from the same perspective as other categories. Luffy isn't "categorized as male" (adjective), but "categorized as a male" (noun) just like how Luffy is "categorized as a Pirate". JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:59, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Then why do people (including you) seem to find "Category:Males" awkward and/or wrong? I for certain always thought of Luffy as "categorized as male", not "a male". sff9 16:29, October 23, 2013

Again, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. The category has been this way for as long as I can remember, so I would think that if it were an actual issue, it would have been raised already. Any further action here is just a waste of everyone's time. Right now it's only an issue because someone wants it to be, and for no other reason.DancePowderer Talk 19:14, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

It's an issue of consistency. You're making it seem like this is going to take the wiki weeks to do, when in reality, it will only take around an hour for a bot to do the whole process.   Galaxy 9000   19:29, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

You people just want to change it for the sake of edit whoring. The category has been there since 2006 and nobody ever had a problem with it. Male is an adjective therefore it shouldn't be in plural and male characters goes against out consistency you keep talking about. This discussion should be closed.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  19:42, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

There's a fair amount of people on each side, so it's not just gonna close.

You keep forgetting that it will be bot edits, and no "edit whoring" will be involved.   Galaxy 9000   19:47, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see the need to change it, as it's easier keeping things the way they are. Besty17 (talk) 20:04, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

There's no "easiest" option. It's bot work that is automated.   Galaxy 9000   20:20, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

"On the other hand extreme consistency is nice too." That's just completely asinine. Consistency is bad when it comes to something that is perfectly fine and would make it grammatically incorrect. SeaTerror (talk) 20:51, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Fortunately, using "Male Characters" would be grammatically correct, so no asininity here. What a relief. sff9 21:04, October 23, 2013

I don't care how it would get edited, I care that it would be edited at all. Besty is right. The easiest and smartest option is to do nothing. And as for your "extreme consistency", it's fine until it crosses the line between consistent and obsessive compulsiveness, as is the case here. There is nothing wrong with how we have it. If there were, then the part of your driver's license that tells your sex would say "male person". True, there are circumstances in which this kind of thing would matter, but this is not one of them.DancePowderer Talk 23:46, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

We shouldn't have even changed the others in the first place. Grammar is far more important than consistency. SeaTerror (talk) 23:51, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

They're all grammatically correct SeaTerror.

You are still not giving reasons as to how changing this is bad for the wiki at all DP. You're giving your own personal opinion on the matter. What's wrong with organization and consistency? They keep people from naming things however they please, and it shows that we actually have a system even for small things like this.   Galaxy 9000   02:56, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think you need to look at the categories then if you think they are actually grammatically correct. SeaTerror (talk) 06:14, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Changing it does nothing in either direction. Everything proposed, as well as the current category in use, is correct. Rather than waste time with a meaningless change like this, our attentions would be better focused elsewhere. We're arguing over equally acceptable synonyms for what we already have, which is just as acceptable as the ones proposed. It would be the same as if we were arguing over whether or not Monet's hair was yellow-green, or greenish yellow. Neither is better than the other and it just leads to pointless arguing over something that was never an issue in the first place.DancePowderer Talk 07:22, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Anyways, the issue is split on both sides, so we're gonna have to poll I guess.   Galaxy 9000   01:49, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Why bother? The change would be purely cosmetic and wouldn't accomplish anything. Didn't you pay attention to anything in my last post?DancePowderer Talk 02:15, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think what Gal is trying to say is, DP, that about half of the people here support renaming this category. Since there isn't a majority, we need a poll to settle this. Lelouch Di Britannia Talk Page  03:32, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

And I'm saying that renaming this serves no purpose, so we shouldn't have even bothered with it in the first place. How will renaming it make things better, apart from satisfying one or two people's lust for hyper-consistency?DancePowderer Talk 03:35, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Its not just what you think, its what the majority think which matters. It looks like we aren't going to get closer to a decision therefore we should poll it. Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 07:32, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

There is no majority. Either way Males is completely wrong grammatically so it would be bad to change it to that. Grammar is far more important than asinine style consistency. SeaTerror (talk) 09:06, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

'There is no majority.' Exactly the reason why a poll needs to be made. Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 09:07, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah let's just make a stupid poll....  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  09:57, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

There shouldn't even be a poll if there was nothing wrong with it in the first place. What are we trying to fix here?DancePowderer Talk 14:33, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

If it was such a matter of unimportance DP, you wouldn't be trying so hard to keep it the same. Changing it doesn't hurt the wiki, but only creates consistency with our categories.

SeaTerror, either way works. The category is plural because it contains Males. It isn't referring to the page at hand.   Galaxy 9000   14:38, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, we obviously disagree here. I too am against changing it but it should be obvious by now that we're not gonna resolve this through discussion. If nobody has a problem with it, I will make the test poll. Ah and the result of the poll will of course apply for [[:Category:Female]] too. Just making it clear because I don't want to see an exact copy of the discussion in that category's talk.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  14:45, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Males isn't even grammatically correct.DancePowderer Talk 14:55, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sure it is, but Male Characters definitely sounds better.   Galaxy 9000   14:56, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Male really isn't correct indeed but thinking about it, the plurar supporters will be split between "Males" and "Male Characters" so "Male" will win :D. Anyway I'm gonna make a test poll?  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  14:59, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Nope. It is not gramatically correct. Luffy is a males obviously. SeaTerror (talk) 00:51, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Male what? Male animal? Male human? What? Male characters is general enough to categorize him, but otherwise, it's too broad for interpretations. Yata Talk to me 01:12, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

SeaTerror, the categories are gramatically correct because they contain pirate captains, pirates, and other things. That's why they're plural. Categories do not work like you're suggesting.

I agree with Yata.   Galaxy 9000   01:40, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Poll DiscussionEdit

Is the poll good enough?  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  15:10, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Aye Vaztalk 15:15,10/28/2013

Mhm Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 17:40, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

"Mommy, I want that toy." "No, sweetie." "I WANT THAT TOY! I WANT THAT TOY!"

That's basically the vibe I'm getting from this whole ordeal. uknownada Talk 00:50, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Please keep comments like that off of talk pages. They don't contribute to the discussion.   Galaxy 9000   01:40, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Because it portrays you in a negative light, is that it?DancePowderer Talk 03:20, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Either way, it's offensive to anybody that reads it in a harsh context, so it should remain off of the talk pages. This is a place to discuss, not throw petty insults around.   Galaxy 9000   03:46, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes when it comes to insults, there's some truth to them. Reading this discussion, it really does seem like a child arguing with his mother to buy a toy. Not even a regular toy, but the type of toy that gets left in the car and forgotten. If the mother doesn't want to buy your toy, or an admin doesn't want to make a petty edit, you have to learn to suck it up and deal with it. It makes a miniscule affect in your life just like this makes a miniscule affect to the Wiki. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I'm going to say something honest here, not specifically as part of the discussion for the category, but from one person to another: You need to learn to deal with things if you don't get what you want. This isn't me trying to insult you, this is me being genuinely concerned for you. uknownada Talk 04:08, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Insults are insults, so please keep them out of the discussion. They contribute zero to the discussion at hand, and are only written to incite flame wars.

And here's the funniest thing about your comments on this page. You have done nothing but comment about how "stupid" you feel the discussion is, while DP, ST, and Staw have posted valid points about being against the change (I don't agree with them, but that doesn't make them wrong, since it's all opinionated in the end). What you're doing comes off as someone who is trying to cause flame wars, instead of actually discussing.

This talk page has also came pretty close to inciting a new discussion about how we should do our categories (SeaTerror's way where nothing is plural, or the current way). So maybe, instead of having this one isolated poll, we should start that forum so we can get this issue settled and over with once and for all.

(Also, stop trying to single me out when I'm not the only who has posted on this talk page in support of these changes.)   Galaxy 9000   05:05, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Time's up, nobody wanted to make any changes to the poll so I'm opening it.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  15:16, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Guess that settles it… sff9 18:15, November 4, 2013

And once again the pot calls the kettle black.DancePowderer Talk 18:21, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

PollEdit

Five Elders Anime Infobox
This was a poll regarding whether we will rename the category or not.
  • To vote you had to have had a registered account here for at least 3 months and have at least 300 edits.
  • If you have been asked to vote for a particular poll option by another user, do not vote and inform an Admin immediately about who asked you to vote.


Status: Closed
Start date: October 29, 15:00 UTC
End date: November 4, 15:00 UTC

Which will be the name of [[:Category:Male]] and [[:Category:Female]]?

Male/Female

  1.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  15:17, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  2. DancePowderer Talk 16:19, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  3. SeaTerror (talk) 18:37, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Zodiaque             05:07, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Awaikage Talk 19:14, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
  6. Besty17Talk 16:19, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
  7.    Karoo       Talk    01:01, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

Males/Females

  1. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 16:36, October 29, 2013 (UTC) Males is in fact grammatically sound.
  2. It's recommended to throw away socks after a year 16:02, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Male/Female Characters

  1. --Roranoa zoro Talk|||15:17,10/29/2013
  2. FurisuTalk 15:18, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  3. PieceEnrik  talk  co 15:28, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  4.   Galaxy 9000   15:50, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Vaztalk 19:00,10/29/2013
  6. Sanji in Unlimited AdventureRainbowShifter 19:38, October 29, 2013 (UTC)
  7. Lelouch Di Britannia Talk Page  08:47, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
  8. Sewil 20:29, October 30 - 2013
  9.  Apoelpaoole  Apoel talk  19:26, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
  10. Quoth The Raven "Nevermore" 19:27, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Page history of former Category:Male Edit

oldid date/time size username edit summary
1078356 2013-10-21T22:23:58Z 114 DancePowderer Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/67.221.137.152|67.221.137.152]] ([[User talk:67.221.137.152|talk]] | [[Special:Block/67.221.137.152|block]]) to last version by [[User:Lelouch Di Britannia|Lelouch Di Britannia]]
1078353 2013-10-21T22:20:50Z 135 67.221.137.152 Adding categories
1030695 2013-08-13T09:06:20Z 114 Lelouch Di Britannia Undo revision 1030692 by [[Special:Contributions/78.100.54.3|78.100.54.3]] ([[User talk:78.100.54.3|talk]])
1030692 2013-08-13T09:05:22Z 143 78.100.54.3 Adding categories
1022259 2013-08-05T06:39:50Z 114 NewWorldWarrior Undo revision 1022255 by [[Special:Contributions/183.80.59.123|183.80.59.123]] ([[User talk:183.80.59.123|talk]])
1022255 2013-08-05T06:33:31Z 146 183.80.59.123 Adding categories
991739 2013-07-01T23:56:07Z 114 Staw-Hat Luffy Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/94.9.239.185|94.9.239.185]] ([[User talk:94.9.239.185|talk]] | [[Special:Block/94.9.239.185|block]]) to last version by [[User:Staw-Hat Luffy|Staw-Hat Luffy]]
991738 2013-07-01T23:54:54Z 138 94.9.239.185 Adding categories
957120 2013-05-27T07:04:36Z 114 Staw-Hat Luffy
957118 2013-05-27T07:03:23Z 122 Staw-Hat Luffy
914250 2013-04-18T20:30:20Z 95 Staw-Hat Luffy
914247 2013-04-18T20:28:54Z 135 Staw-Hat Luffy Undo revision 914242 by [[Special:Contributions/178.37.136.185|178.37.136.185]] ([[User talk:178.37.136.185|talk]])
914242 2013-04-18T20:20:19Z 168 178.37.136.185 Adding categories
914241 2013-04-18T20:19:59Z 135 178.37.136.185 Adding categories
895926 2013-04-01T21:10:13Z 95 Leviathan 89 Undo revision 895924 by [[Special:Contributions/75.183.98.68|75.183.98.68]] ([[User talk:75.183.98.68|talk]])
895924 2013-04-01T21:06:45Z 122 75.183.98.68 Adding categories
893489 2013-03-29T07:29:13Z 95 The Forgotten Beast Undo revision 893487 by [[Special:Contributions/99.190.104.25|99.190.104.25]] ([[User talk:99.190.104.25|talk]])
893487 2013-03-29T07:27:56Z 132 99.190.104.25 Adding categories
888981 2013-03-24T15:42:05Z 95 Staw-Hat Luffy
888979 2013-03-24T15:40:53Z 91 Staw-Hat Luffy
849875 2013-02-16T16:19:41Z 69 JustSomeDude... Undo revision 849872 by [[Special:Contributions/68.146.94.220|68.146.94.220]] ([[User talk:68.146.94.220|talk]])
849872 2013-02-16T16:18:22Z 109 68.146.94.220 Adding categories
768936 2012-11-03T12:57:13Z 69 Zodiaque Undo revision 768932 by [[Special:Contributions/200.232.173.47|200.232.173.47]] ([[User talk:200.232.173.47|talk]])
768932 2012-11-03T12:43:47Z 104 200.232.173.47 Adding categories
755679 2012-10-15T20:30:03Z 69 Jademing Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/213.119.43.194|213.119.43.194]] ([[User talk:213.119.43.194|talk]] | [[Special:Block/213.119.43.194|block]]) to last version by [[User:Pandawarrior|Pandawarrior]]
755677 2012-10-15T20:26:17Z 89 213.119.43.194 Adding categories
711152 2012-08-04T13:56:59Z 69 Pandawarrior Undo revision 711141 by [[Special:Contributions/217.120.184.42|217.120.184.42]] ([[User talk:217.120.184.42|talk]])awc is category: idiot
711141 2012-08-04T13:50:08Z 90 217.120.184.42 Adding categories
675689 2012-06-06T23:32:27Z 69 NewWorldWarrior Undo revision 675684 by [[Special:Contributions/79.114.117.170|79.114.117.170]] ([[User talk:79.114.117.170|talk]])
675684 2012-06-06T23:29:01Z 110 79.114.117.170 Adding categories
642475 2012-04-07T04:10:07Z 69 Kaizoku-Hime Not all of them are.
642472 2012-04-07T04:07:41Z 100 117.219.34.137 Adding categories
423368 2011-04-26T22:45:35Z 69 Pandawarrior Undo revision 423353 by [[Special:Contributions/67.225.75.220|67.225.75.220]] ([[User talk:67.225.75.220|talk]])...no
423353 2011-04-26T22:40:36Z 90 67.225.75.220 Adding categories
392728 2011-03-23T00:58:37Z 69 PX-Bot [[:Category:Characters by Gender]]
158430 2009-12-16T15:20:18Z 69 El Chupacabra
143013 2009-10-30T13:15:43Z 59 El Chupacabra
6704 2006-12-10T02:51:58Z 58 Mugiwara Franky
6695 2006-12-10T02:41:29Z 77 Mugiwara Franky
2856 2006-10-24T03:58:08Z 34 Sigmasonic X

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