Do not add to it unless it really needs to be reopened. Consider creating a brand new forum instead.
I've noticed that a good number of the Devil Fruit infoboxes were changed from their original colors to completely different colors. While they appear decorative and all, they are rather inconsistent with other infoboxes found within the wikia. I mean I notice that the infoboxes in the majority of the Straw Hats pages are yellow and red. Shouldn't it follow that standard instead of a completely different one. No one's complained about it before I understand however, I also understand these edits were made by a new user without prior discussion. It kinda breaks alot of protocol if you allow new users to make major edits like these without at least a proper discussion.112.198.249.121 16:19, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
I'll say the same thing I said on your talk page. He said anyone who wanted to could object, and no one did. Also, the Straw Hats are not Devil Fruits. Their info boxes match their generally assosicated color, so why not take that one step further with the Devil Fruits? The varying color schemes make the pages look a lot less boring. Besides, they are already categorized in other places on the page, so why should the color scheme have to be another? They should stay the way they are.DancePowderer 16:38, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
- It's true that they are not "boring" with the new colors but they really go against consistency. Take a look at Fencing Style, Black Leg Style, Santoryu, and Clima-Tact. They all have infoboxes that follow the Straw Hat colorscheme. If they follow the colorscheme, then why shouldn't the Straw Hat Devil Fruits such as Hana Hana no Mi follow suit? I mean that seems really inconsistent. Should consistency be downplayed for decorations?
- If so, then what is stopping people from coloring say Zoro's infobox to match his colorscheme rather than the Straw Hats for purpose of decoration. I mean green is more Zoro's color and would certainly make his page more decorative. It would be a better choice at the sacrifice of concistency112.198.249.121 16:56, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Here's kinda proof that it's causing abit of problems.
- 1.Aldarinor, a user who appears to have been around at least since August last year, made a similar comment about the Devil Fruit infoboxes here. His edit was reverted with the explanation that the community decided it that way however it was without proof.
- 2.Klobis, a user who appears to have been around at least since september, made a similar edit. However, his edit was reverted by Jinbe.
- Now I really don't want to cause problems but is it really okay to favor the edits of a newer user who has only been around since last November. His edits were done in good faith that is certain. But how his edits have been handled is really not following rules. At the very least, it seems rather unfair.120.28.210.73 18:01, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
They are suppose to be the same colour so you come to acknolwedge them via the colours. The schemes are suppose to match whats relevent. I sort of feel they should be identical to each other, so we all know thats the devil fruit template. Thats my thoughts anyway and how its been done elsewhere. Also, under no circumstance should something be done purely as personnel perference, or decorations, though this mostly applies to images it could also be argued to be applicable to this circumstance. This would prevent the templates changing colour "because its pwetty". One-Winged Hawk 00:06, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
I was never able to understand that system. It doesn't make sense to me. This way it's easier to associate the fruits individually by color rather than by color category.DancePowderer 06:24, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
No, take the Gura Gura no Mi for example. It originally belonged to Whitebeard, so it should be the color of the Whitebeard Pirates. But now it belongs to Blackbeard, so it would change to the Blackbeard Pirates color scheme. To prevent such a conundrum, let's just use the color scheme that would best represent the power instead of the affiliation. Yatanogarasu 06:34, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
Well, for some fruits, like the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Baku Baku no Mi can't really have associative colors, so then it would be best to use colors associated with the fruit. For the ones can have their color association, I agree.DancePowderer 06:41, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
The Gura Gura no Mi at the moment seems to be the only one where group association would be a problem. However, wouldn't it be easily solved the same way character infoboxes are changed when they change alignment. Wasn't Brook's colorscheme before he joined the Straw Hats that of the Rumbar Pirates. His colorscheme changed when he properly joined the Straw Hats. Since the Gura Gura no Mi now belongs to Blackbeard, is there really a confusion in changing it to Blackbeard's color?180.190.156.187 07:53, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
Also if the colorschemes are to represent the fruits themselves, wouldn't that pose some problems? Are the colors to be based on the fruit's powers or the actual fruits themselves? If based on powers, that could be hard since some powers don't exactly say color. The Suke Suke no Mi for example is the power of invisibility. The colorscheme for that would have to be yellowish white for both text and background to match the page's color since it's invisibilty. If based on the actual fruits, that would be way harder since only a few fruits have been seen prior to being eaten.
There's also the matter whether certain colors would match the fruits. The Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu is colored gold and blue. But shouldn't be gold and a darker yellow. Then there's manga and anime differences. The Zou Zou no Mi makes the sword into a regular colored elephant in the manga while the anime makes it into a white elephant.180.190.156.187 08:07, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
First, I'm a bit disappointed that no one (especially the person that brought it up) informed me about this being a problem. Second, I reverted Klobis edit because I did not understand why, since there was no comment or reason given by him. He also stopped reverting the edits after I further explained why I changed them to a different scheme, giving me the impression that all is fine. So much for that.
Now to the actual topic.
I understand that characters share a color scheme, like the straw hats, or the marines. After all they belong to a certain faction. Going with the same color supports that nicely.
However, I believe that the devil fruits should be handled like an own entity, since their users change over time as well. We have the case with the gura gura no mi and might witness a reincarnation of the mera mera no mi too. Blacklegstyle & clima tact really don't compare, since one describes the unique fighting style of Sanji and the other is a unique weapon made by Usopp for Nami.
Devil fruits, on the other hand, are universal. They are a "natural" part of the one piece world, the user just borrows them for the time being (since they reappear after death).
But whatever, lets have a look at the options we have:
- Going with the color scheme of the devil fruit user (causes problems if we have 2 characters using the fruit, could also be the reason for major eyecancer - like having a neon scheme paired with a pink-dominated picture...see the old mero mero no mi)
- Using more or less neutral color schemes for the 3 types of devil fruits (the easy way out, but offers consistency)
- Deciding individually on colors that "match" the fruit. (causes problems with uncertain fruits, like the suke suke no mi)
- A healthy mix between matching the fruits power/appearance and the current picture that is used for it. Both scheme and picture compliment each other. A good example would be the Hito Hito: Model Daibutsu, where i used blue and gold because the anime version is used.( means a lot of work and more importantly - talk. But like with certain images: it can be done)
Here is an example of how it would be with option 1.:
http://img840.imageshack.us/i/meromeroold.jpg/
And this is how it could be with option 4.:
http://img265.imageshack.us/i/meromeronew.jpg/
In any case, please stop blaming other users for my edits, 112.198.249.121,120.28.210.73, thanks.
Jinbe 01:49, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
- For the Devil Fruits being universal, that is true as well as to the apparent power transfer. However, its full explanation has yet to be revealed. I mean we don't know yet or for sure if and how Devil Fruits reappear after death. So far there have only been one Devil Fruit that has had two users. And even then it's a bit questionable how Blackbeard did it. For the Mera Mera no Mi, there is a chance of it resurfacing but that's speculative at that this point. Just because a unique situation has presented itself does not mean it will constantly happen again. For all we know, Oda is probably gonna make just one known user for most Devil Fruits for the majority of One Piece. No different new users, no different past users, just the ones he created.
- It maybe different but the matter really comes down to being a similar case with characters and associated articles, and which factions they belong to. A number of characters in One Piece tend to change factions at one point of time or another. Changing colors based on their new faction has not been a problem. Why should it be a problem then if a Devil Fruit changed factions when characters changing factions has not been an issue.
- For using a universal colorscheme for all Devil Fruit is indeed the easy way out but if that's the case, the same argument can be made to characters as well and that kinda requires a major overhaul and creates more problems.
- On deciding individually based on the fruit, it really is a problem.
- On mixing things up based on the pic, it's not exactly a simple answer to everything. For the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu, the pic being shown so far is that of Segoku glowing gold amidst a dark blue background. That only works if the pic stays constant. The pic is the best representation of the fruit's powers as of the moment. However it has it's problems. If a pic of Sengoku in full buddha mode standing upright without obstruction were to present itself and be chosen, wouldn't that cause a problem or so. Also there is the problem with manga vs. anime. Certain Devil Fruit powers are really different in each medium. The cases with Enel's lightning color and Lucci's initial anime leopard form are most notable.
- All in all, option 1 is still the best option for the matter. It serves two purposes. It makes the article unique looking and presents consistency. Both not sacrificing each other. The middle ground between the colorful and the constant. The whole mixing up thing is nice looking but sacrifices consistency for decor that is not necessarily consistent in itself for sure.120.28.241.99 07:48, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
- First, it is confirmed that Devil Fruits reappear after death. There is no specific line that states "devil fruits reappear after the users demise", but the various info combined leaves no room for misinterpretation.
- Lets see:
- Sanji knew about the Suke Suke no Mi from a Devil Fruit guide. So, apparently there is a book that catalogs all known fruits. This alone is no confirmation, since Absalom could have contributed the data before Sanji read the book. However, we get the info that there are people in One Piece that try to gather as much input as possible (and did so in the past). Puzzle piece 1.
- Kaku points out that there is no way to tell which power you get if the fruit is unknown. Spandam admits that certain fruits do have an "Aura" that help identify them, but if the Aura is unknown, consumption is the only way to find out. Puzzle piece 2.
- Blackbeard knew about the Yami Yami no Mi, and more importantly, its powers. He wanted specifically that fruit. But how could he know its power if the fruits do not reappear? Did he stole the devil fruit abilities from Thatch (like he did with Whitebeard), after he witnessed Thatch using it? Unlikely, since that would heavily contradict the statement that Blackbeard only served under Whitebeard for over 20 years, just to get his hands on the Yami Yami no Mi. He knew about its existence for over 20 years, at least. He was relieved after he finally gazed upon the very fruit he desired for such a long time. But how did he know how the Yami Yami no Mi looks like? After all he was able to tell its kind by just looking at the fruits form. Means: Someone already consumed the Yami Yami no Mi in the past to contribute information about its powers, as well as the basic form of the fruit. Puzzle piece 3.
- A similar case is the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Shanks knew what power the Gomu Gomu no Mi grants. But how did he know if not someone in the past consumed it already? Both fruits reappeared in their basic form. Puzzle piece 4.
- No devil fruit power can exist twice at the same time, so that explanation is out of the way too. It basically confirms that Devil Fruits are consumed and reappear later - in order to not conflict the first rule, the old user just has to pass away, by whatever means. How long it takes for the fruit to appear again does not matter in our case, it is just a fact that they reappear again. Puzzle piece 5.
This is all and completely based on flat-out facts, nothing is speculated. It is true that we don't know much at the moment, but enough to justify the autonomy of Devil Fruits. Characters might change factions, characters might pass away sooner or later, but Devil Fruits are like water & sunshine - a basic resource (even if limited to one person at a time).
To option 4, sure it isn't simple and easy, but it is an answer. Pics change and of course the color scheme has to adapt - but this is a wikia, we have to adapt in any case in order to improve the overall quality. Consistency is of course a huge factor and for sure desirable to achieve, but I also get the impression that this word is often used in combination with conservative opinions, especially if real arguments are lacking (speaking in general). "We would have to change other articles as well if we do that!" is one of the standard replies, but really, is anyone here afraid of a bit extra "work"? After all this is people's hobby, if one considers this to be "work", he might be on the wrong site. No offense, just an observation.
And yes, design and appearance play a huge factor, even if some like to downplay its value. Personally I don't like to eat a Big Mac that looks like someone sat on it comfortably for 2 hours, I also don't want to further read an article that burns my eyes with a crazy combo of pink and neon colors. Reading through the comments I'm not the only one who thinks that way and the recent change of the wikias design only backs that up (whoever did that, it looks great...) Jinbe 16:20, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
- There is no doubt as to that Devil Fruits reappear again however whether it's after death or something else is still unknown. What we know is a good guess but the exact explanation has yet to be explained. In any case, that matter is not in discussion.
- Option 4 is indeed simple and easy but it being an answer doesn't mean it's a good answer. It's true no one likes to have a Big Mac that's been sat on but if all Big Macs looked like that because of procedure based on consensus or something, then that's how they should be. Whether people like it or not depends on individual taste and if they want to change it to their individual taste by altering a single burger that's been given to them then they are free to do so. However if you really don't like the burger, you cannot just go ahead and change the entire recipe. Just because one person says I don't like this burger doesn't mean the recipe has to be changed to suit this one request. I mean other people might like the original sat on recipe for all you know.
- Burgers aside, a person just cannot go out of the way and change an article just to suit their own tastes. They may not like the article that is presented to them and are free to edit due to the nature of the wikia, however they can't just do so if it might create a break in procedure. One cannot just go out on a whim and say I want this article to look this way without considering other similar articles. That's just breaking rules. At most, it could be considered vandalism if done poorly.
- Doing Option 4 also is a bit too tiring in retrospect. For one thing, you cannot just pick one or two Devil Fruit and say I'll change this to that. You have to do them all, otherwise there won't be any order. You have to look at each pic and at most, have a proper discussion on what colors to be chosen. And this has to be done everytime a new pic is chosen. Does anybody really want to do that for 100+ Devil Fruits? There's enough color variety what with different factions, any further variation just for individual pages is just inconsistent. There's a limit to color variety before it stops being creative and becomes just a mess.180.190.146.110 17:10, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
Things are changed constantly, be it pictures, text or whole design schemes. If someone is against something, you express your feelings and reasons. If they are not convincing or lead to a solution, the community talks things over - simple as that. It is not a matter of "I want it my way brah brah brah", its more the lines of "look, I think this would be a nice idea, if you have something against it, feel free to poke me (or us) about it and we find a solution that satisfies everyone, or we vote". Taking the initiative considering pictures and design is necessary - it is the best way to describe your idea. Nothing is decided, nothing is deleted, everything can be reverted - or not if people tend to like it (since no one complained for weeks).
It also doesn't matter if you are new or a veteran. This wikia belongs to everyone, no one "owns" this place (except the wikia team itself, of course). But anyway, since no new arguments are made we should just start a vote, since some already expressed they are in favor of the individual system and some not.Jinbe 17:41, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
- Going "I think this would be a nice idea, if you have something against it, feel free to poke me" isn't always a good way to do things. At the very least, it has it's problems especially if what you're doing is drastic. Considering this wikia is big, it would be a matter of time or so before someone finds something to be problematic or against procedure. I mean I can color Chiqicheetah's infobox to something more worthy of the character since it may look to me like a sat on burger and just leave a simple message that says "this looks nice". No, such a big change cannot be done like that. You cannot just change things on the whim and rely later if people think such a big change is okay. If you are really against the consistent design schemes then you should have followed your own advice and express your feelings beforehand. Better to ask if something big is alright to do before rather than have someone complain about it later.180.190.146.110 18:03, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
To me it seems like people are more pissed about Jinbe going against procedure than the actual new colors of the DF infoboxes. Ask yourselves, do you care more that the color schemes got changed or that he went against procedure? I'm only saying this because I'm hearing complaints about both at the same time.DancePowderer 18:14, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
- It's a matter of both when it comes down to it. The colorschemes got changed to new colors that weren't agreed upon prior. It was done without any discussion by a single user. The new colorschemes also look inconsistent especially when compared to other pages. They're given special treatment because one user thinks they deserve better than consistent order. That's really orderly when you guys are arguing about what words to use and putting a rather strict restriction regardless of what one or two users think.180.190.146.110 18:37, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
They're just a bunch of IP addresses. I don't see why it matters if they complain. SeaTerror 18:19, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
- So you prefer random inconsistency and broken procedure by a named user rather than an opinion about consistency and order from an anon. In other words, you prefer a mess from a named employee than cleanliness from a complete stranger.
- This wikia is making a big deal about having all the words follow a certain flow. This wikia deletes pages like literary techniques on the basis that they are random. So why shouldn't there be a problem made about colorschemes when they break consistency.180.190.146.110 18:37, February 16, 2011 (UTC)