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Discussion

It came to my attention that there is a minor case of gallery spamming going on again. I would like to prevent the same thing to happen as in case of Nami's gallery. So, since I can't find any guidelines on that topic I thought it should be discussed.

Putting every single outfit the main characters ever wore in the gallery will lead to an endlessly long gallery. We should limit it to the most notable ones, i.e.

  • child appearance
  • the initial outfit - if it isn't in the infobox already (as it should be in my opinion) it needs to be in the gallery
  • Wanted poster
  • Strong World & Film Z - Since those are considered "canon" due to Oda working on them personally, they should be in the gallery. However, I don't think it is necessary to list every outfit. e.g. I find the outfits the Strawhats wore during their very first encounter with Shiki unnecessary as they only appear in one short scene.
  • game appearances & Mugiwara Chase - In fact I think we should put those in the respective game's/movie's article instead of the character pages. (or at least complete them for all characters instead of just Nami and Robin =_=)

If we really want any arc outfits, they should be limited to the most important arcs of a saga, i.e. Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby and either Thriller Bark or Sabaody.

I do not see any need for the other outfits, like Jaya or Davy Back Fight. I don't think we need to show the Punk Hazard appearance either, unless you want to make one "Most recent appearance" spot on the gallery.

   NeoWitch   08:46, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Personally I'm happy to support any policy to stop the spamming of outdated fashion, so really my vote will be pretty easy.

But, I'd like to present two alternative options which I discussed earlier in chat (I know you didn't like them Neo, but we need to lay out all the cards~). The first is simply converting the current gallery into a slideshow gallery, as can be seen on the Fairy Tail wiki for several purposes.

The other is something they do on the Bleach Wiki, where they have a separate tab (Warning: It's a large page) for images involving the character. I'm not suggesting we do anything near as extensive as it shows there, but we could have another tab used for the sole purpose of an outfit/appearance gallery. We'll be sating the need for those who desire to see the Straw Hat's entire wardrobe on display, and the need of others who don't want to see it spill into the information tabs.

Either way, we'd end up with a gallery of between 10-20 images for the main characters, which will be in it's own area for people to see at their own choosing.

But like I said, I'm perfectly happy with Neo's idea as well. Just presenting some alternatives.   Kuro      Ashi   10:01, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Or more simply anything that shows something interesting about the appearance of the character: the outfits are not really interesting because they are just decorations. If we ever decide to make an outfit gallery, it should definitely go in another section. leviathan_89 10:23, 26 July, 2012 (UTC)

It's not that simple, Levi. If you google One Piece we are one of the first sources for both images and information. (I, for instance, like to use this wiki's images for reference when drawing.) Therefore we should opt for completeness of information.

I agree that we should include some interesting misc images, like Okama Sanji or Afro Luffy.

However, the galleries of the main cast are going to go out of hand if people don't know what exactly to put in there. Therefore we need some kind of guidelines to go by.

   NeoWitch   11:21, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Even if I personally don't care about them, I'm not against having the comprehensive set of outfits—just not in the main page gallery.
That said, I'm not comfortable with some of your propositions Neo:

  • Wanted poster: OK if it is official, but in the vast majority, they are fanart. I know wanted posters are an exception of the guidelines for which fanart is allowed, but that doesn't make sense in my opinion. What's the point, seriously?
  • SW and Z: 1) their canon status is debatable, 2) how is canonicity related to the gallery? All of Nami's outfits that were removed were canon too.

So, my proposition for the gallery would be:

  • child appearance
  • initial outfit
  • wanted poster (if an official one is available)
  • 3–5 misc interesting images (with the possibility to put more if necessary).

Now, as I said, having a new tab with all outfits and for example artstyle evolution for the main characters would not be anti-encyclopedic at all. sff9 12:40, July 26, 2012

Finally! A forum about this! I'm fully with Neo on this about limiting the pictures. We have excellent description of the clothes they wear in the arcs, I don't see the point of adding pictures for it.

And Kuro, I don't agree about the slideshow. When that crazy Nami obsessed guy Jimbe made the outfits' gallery into a slideshow (or maybe it was someone else?), I thought it looked rather hideous, and did not go along well with the other gallery: This was what it looked like.

I also dislike the idea of making a page just for the pictures. That would be going too far. Anyone can just google them up.

Overall, I think we should do as Neo said in her first post in here. It sound a great one. Of course, Sff's idea is also appealing as well.  Jade Talk   16:12, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

I personally never saw any of this as a problem the way it was (for example, Robin's page). The introduction section is not a big page, and there is no reason to make it even smaller only to make a new page that is nothing but pictures. And how come it is ok to have a all of the image descriptions but not the pictures, which actually takes up LESS space? I think all of the major outfits and wanted posters and such should be allowed. On a semi-unrelated note, do we seriously have a picture of Franky on Nami's page that says "Nami inside Franky's body"? That isn't Nami's appearance, that is Franky's. PX15.. 16:32, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Just make a gallery tab like this http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Face_Freeze!/gallery SeaTerror (talk) 17:19, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I thought it was cool to show their outfits. Making a separate gallery page is a good idea. Lots of wikis do it, and the characters were a bunch of clothing (and will continue to), so making a separate page for it could help everyone get want they want. The page could display all of the characters' outfits and they won't be spamming the Introduction.

Oh, yeah! Before I forget, Jademing, I wanna remind everyone that for the Appearances sections for the other Straw Hats are incomplete. The only ones done (sort of) are Luffy and Zoro's, minus their clothing from fillers and the canon movies (I did them, so I was focusing on main clothings than the fillers at the time). Robin's is the second closest to being done (not all of them are listed), and then Nami's.--NinjaSheik 18:23, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

It would be nice to show their outfits, but not too many, as that guy did. I mean, a little more than 40 pictures? Come on, you have to be kidding me. That's just too much, and anyway, most of them are in terrible quality. That's why I went along with Neo's idea which also includes outfits from an important arc from a saga. Not too many pictures, so we don't have to go crazy about the pictures.

Oh, and Ninja, I think you did a nice job on these descriptions of their clothing.  Jade Talk   18:35, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well, maybe it'd better to separate them sub section. Like, one section for the main outfits for the canon storyline (clothes from arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby, only canon arcs clothes), then one section for fillers (like the Spa Island one), and then one for the games and the movies. That way, they gallery won't be one HUGE thing, but instead in separate sections. That's how we do it on the KH Wiki.

And thanks, but describing clothes isn't my forte, even though I'm a girl. I mainly worked it for myself, if I'm being honest. I was working on a One Piece fanfic before I decided to reveal myself (you know, when I was still editing as anon), and I was using descriptions of the clothes in the story (I liked the Straw Hats' clothes very much, so I wanted to use them in my story). So, when the other users urge me to create an account, I logged in, reveal myself as NinjaSheik, and I started doing the Appearances as a way to save time for doing it later in my fic. That, and it was done pretty sloppy and unfair.

Robin's appearances were the best, but I didn't understand why her page was the only one that looked the cleanest when the other Straw Hats' didn't. So, I did it as a way to benefit me and then the wiki, but I was reluctant since I didn't know how to describe clothes very much. And then people were being unfair to me, frustrated me, so I quit doing them when I was in the middle of Nami's. That being said, I'm not doing it again, for the record. Like I said, I'm only doing minor edits since "this happened and that happened", and quite frankly, I kinda lost my patience with guys doing major edits. The only time no one bugged me was when I was doing the Appearances, I deduced that because no one wanted to it themselves and no one even helped me.

But, all because I don't wanna do it anymore, doesn't mean I don't want it to thrive. I agree that lots of the images are low quality, but that's because they were probably images taken from Photobucket and other people on the web. I saw the exact same image for Robin's Thriller Bark on a Photobucket user's account a long time ago (along with lots of others).--NinjaSheik 19:13, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

So, basically, the options are

  • only selected events
  • an own gallery tab

Is that it? I can't believe nobody else has something to say about the topic.

   NeoWitch   21:44, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

There's always:

  • Leave as is.

...but that isn't really an option anymore. If I had to pick, I would say only selected events. There is no need for a new tab in my opinion. The introduction page is not large enough to be split up. PX15.. 22:27, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

PX is right, we could always leave it as it was. And I believe that PX is also right about no need for a new tab. So we have three options:

  • Only selected events
  • A tab just for the pictures or whatever
  • Leave it as it is.

I think we should go along with selected events, if not leave it alone as it is. Just my two cents, of course.  Jade Talk   22:32, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Bump. I would be fine with leaving the galleries as they are, but only one outfit per arc. Throw in the wanted poster, few related pics, Strong World, Z appearance, and video games and we are good. PX15.. 18:57, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

We had one outfit per arc, it was a mess. That is why I said we should only have one outfit per saga.    NeoWitch   07:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Crap, man. Why do I always join the forums after they're discussed? I would like to ask if anyone's considered a whole new article for outfits. We could describe them in better detail and we could include every outfit. We could list better information, like when this outfit appeared. And then the galleries wouldn't be cluttered with clothing. Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 16:00, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Technically the discussion isn't over, so you're free to join it. And yes, if you had read the discussion thoroughly, you'll see that we had discussion about making a tab for the pictures.  Jade Talk   16:34, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Currently, we also have descriptions in the text of Luffy/Nami/etc's articles describing every outfit they ever wore in every single arc. Should we get rid of all the text for the images we remove as well? JustSomeDude... 16:50, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

First, the descriptions are incomplete. And would you get rid of the text? If you do that, then you aren't providing full information of the characters for their Appearance sections.--NinjaSheik 17:41, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

No, I read about the tabs. But that would put an indivisual tab on every character. I'm talking about one collective article that would have Luffy's outfits, Zoro's outfits, Buggy's outfits, Crocodile's outfits, etc. We could move the descriptions from the character articles to the wardrobe article and everything patches up quite nicely. Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 17:45, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

That might work as well. But the page would be very long if there's only one collective article for pretty much everyone. So yeah, I say no to that.  Jade Talk   18:00, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Yup, it would be horribly huge, both in length (dirty and hard to use), and in size because of hundreds of pics (long to load). sff9 18:05, July 29, 2012
Not that many characters have costumes. We could get it nice and organized, I think it would look nice. But I guess not having it would be just as easy. Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 20:29, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

The discussion is still open.

An own article for the outfits... no, just no. This is almost as pointless as the articles about the different jobs on the ship (first mate, musician, etc.) Is there anyone who even reads those articles?

I had another idea, which might be a compromise to the gallery/tab thing: Instead of squeezing it into every character's article, we could make a tab in the Straw Hat Pirates article with a table that shows both the art evolution and the outfits of the major arcs.    NeoWitch   10:01, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Straw Hats aren't the only ones who change clothes, you know. You think Buggy's article would look nice with two tabs? Wardrobe and Everything Else? Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 15:37, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
Yes but an article with all of the characters' different outfits would be way too long. Why not keep the characters' pages the same, a small gallery on each of the pages?  Jade Talk   17:24, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
I agree. Also, there might be too many pictures. Other characters other than the Straw Hats? That would look terrible, especially if there are only two tabs.    Karoo       Talk    05:03, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Vote I

This poll will close at 00:00 on August 11th, 2012. To vote you must have been here for at least three months and have at least 300 edits.

For the galleries of the main cast (members of the Straw Hat crew) the following should apply:

  • A gallery at the end of the Appearance page with outfits from a few selected events (optional: state which events should be included under Event List)
  1.  Jade Talk   15:13, July 28, 2012 (UTC) There's not that much pictures necessary for making a tab just for the pictures, making it more or less useless.
  2. Cheese Lord (talk) 17:53, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  3.  NewWorldWarrior  Talk  18:07, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  4.    Karoo       Talk    18:39, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  5. PX15.. 03:33, July 30, 2012 (UTC) Making another tab is completely pointless and only clutters the page further.
  6. leviathan_89 11:35, 3 August, 2012 (UTC) (who cares about the outfits? And aren't this options a bit limiting?)
  7. PieceEnrik  talk  co 12:54, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
  • An own gallery tab with a complete list of outfits worn throughout the series
  1. SeaTerror (talk) 08:09, July 28, 2012 (UTC) (Only for important characters like the Straw Hats)
  2. Jaimini•626•Talk http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r631/jaimini626/WatchOnePieceEpisode531EnglishSubbed-WatchOP1.png 08:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC) I think that a tab sould be made for Straw-hats and a slide show gallery for other characters.
  3. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 12:29, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  4. --NinjaSheik 17:47, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  5. Galaxy9000 (talk) 18:23, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  6.                                                SHB                                                09:59, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Bastian964 23:26, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
  8.   Kuro      Ashi   03:27, August 2, 2012 (UTC) (Only for the Straw Hats who have enough outfits to deserve their own tab)
  9. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:48, August 3, 2012 (UTC) (What JoP said. SHs only. Or anyone else with more than 12 [3 rows of] pictures)
  10. Monkey.D.Me (talk) 05:07, August 5, 2012 (UTC) ADD ALL THE OUTFITS!!
  11.    NeoWitch   16:08, August 5, 2012 (UTC) Changing my mind because I can.

Event List

Neo's suggested events/images for the gallery option:

  • childhood
  • wanted poster (if it's official)
  • initial outfit (if it isn't in the infobox)
  • Strong World: Traveling outfit and formal
  • Z: official outfits (for now)
  • 1 outfit per Grandline saga (Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Sabaody)
  • 2-3 misc images showing interesting changes (Okama Sanji, Afro Luffy, etc.)

All other game or movie outfits should be moved to their respective movie/game page. As for Punk Hazard: There should only be an image if the character switched bodies with another AND there is a visible change to the appearance during that state. (i.e. Sanji in Nami's body doesn't look any different so there is no need for an image. However, Nami retains her eye shape in both Franky's and Sanji's body. The image only makes sense if it depicts these changes.)

   NeoWitch   07:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't get the SW and Z part. What's so important about them? Formal outfit from SW is weird and unusual enough to warrant a place among the misc images—but why an "official" item, and why including the traveling outfit?
BTW, another category of pics that are often found in galleries and should be legit (while not being "misc") is that of pics showing different colorschemes (manga vs anime, initial vs current…) sff9 11:52, July 28, 2012

SW and Z because they aren't the usual type of clothing the Straw Hats wear. For instance, Luffy usually only wears vests with a pair of jeans shorts. But I do agree with the manga vs anime part. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 12:34, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

As I said before, I simply think that we should put only interesting stuff regarding the character's appearance, ignoring the outfits. I know that's kinda vague, but for further issues we just use the talk pages and I'm speaking for all characters. This is because I get the feeling we just associate "appearance" = "outfits", they may be interesting sometimes, but I think the most interesting image are those regarding physical features, different colorschemes, character's design evolution and so on. I understand that you don't mean that, but I fear that we are setting up rules that would limiting the galleries' potential just to rule out some random outfits, so if that's the case I propose that we just mark as unnecessary outfits images (but add some exception if we think it's the case) and leave the rest as it is now, meaning trusting the editors' judgement and relying on the talk pages for further issues, in fact wasn't this whole forum born for the sake of avoiding adding all the outfits worn by the main characters through the series? leviathan_89 13:11, 28 July, 2012 (UTC)

I feel like we should have only the major arcs' outfits. In my mind those are the longer arcs with large story impact, and there's generally only one per saga. So those are initial, Alabasta, Skypeia, Enies Lobby, Thriller, Sabaody, and post-timeskip. Thriller isn't that major of an arc, but the designs are different enough for me. SW should be included, because it's close enough to canon for me, and the designs are different enough to be shown, but only the classy outfits. Any outfit that is referenced in the text of the manga (or anime if the outfit is non-filler) should also be included. Examples of that are Afro Luffy, Luffy's Amazon Lilly (with flowers and without), Nami's Thriller Wedding dress, etc. (Is Okama Sanji in the manga or his cover story?) Z hasn't come out yet, so let's leave those outfits on the Z film's page. PH is just everyone's normal post-skip outfit, plus coats. That's not that important in my mind.

Video Games shouldn't be included at all. There's a bunch of them, and it's impossible to say which ones are more important than the others, because none of them are any closer to canon than the others. The video game designs should be included on each game's page. We don't have any character's history, relationships, or abilities from the games on the character's page, so why should we have their appearance? JustSomeDude... 15:57, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the wanted posters deserve to be on the pages, I'm just not sure that the "appearance" section is the best spot for them. Especially for Sanji's, which doesn't actually show his appearance. I think a new section devoted to changes in the boutnties/wanted posters should be made somewhere on each character's page. Kind of like what we have here [[1]] but on the character's page, and with the different posters. JustSomeDude... 16:20, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

So you stated the major arcs in your opinion, but what about others? I don't think you can pic which are major and which aren't if you ask me. All are connected and lead up to the current. Heck, we could just wipe out the entire gallery section for all we know if we're gonna have to speculate on which outfits are from the "major" arcs or games. The only really important thing for me is the appearance in manga and anime 2 years ago and now. Possibly game appearances, who knows. I do agree about the bounty poster part though.

Another completely new idea would be the evolution of art for the characters throughout the series in their appearance galleries, but thats just seems out of the question right now. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 17:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

The major arcs are the ones that lasted the longest (and/or had the most story impact and are most memorable). And the longer the arc, the longer each character wore each outfit. And the longer each character wore the outfit, the stronger the association of that outfit to the character. So yeah, we totally can rank the importance of outfits based on arc importance. It's not a perfect rule, but but as long as we make exceptions where needed (the outifts that are referenced in the text, etc), it should work fine. JustSomeDude... 17:49, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Again, most impact and most memorable are both elements that differ in each of our minds. I'm pretty sure each outfit was worn around the same amount of chapters/episodes excluding fillers and the Straw Hats' initial clothing. And even if we find that some arcs are longer than others, if we add those 'special case outfits' then the number of outfits in a gallery total would be so close to the total number of outfits worn, the meaning of lessining the number of gallery images in the first place would be lost. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 18:18, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but is anyone seriously going to make a case that the Davy Back, Jaya, Post-Enies Lobby, or any filler arcs are more important than Alabasta, Sabaondy, or Thriller Bark? Things are subjective to a point, but I think that enough of us can agree to make conclusions about this. Maybe a poll or two has to happen, but I think agreement can be reached without much fuss. And the point of this forum is to lessen the number from when someone added every outfit ever, not to reduce it from what it was originally. The special case outfits would exist only for certain characters too, so it wouldn't add every outfit ever. For some characters like Luffy, there may be a bunch of special cases, but Chopper probably won't have many at all (if he has any). But that is totally ok. And I forgot to say it before, but I support childhood images as well. JustSomeDude... 21:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

The main arcs are those their respective saga is directed at. Baroque Works = Alabasta, Skypiea = Skypiea (duh), CP9 = Enies Lobby and Whitebeard War = Marineford. Sabaody is also important for the WB War saga because this is when the Straw Hats had their first major defeat.

Art evolution is a point in the article about Oda. If you want it for the main cast, the best way would be a collage (to prevent random uploads).

   NeoWitch   09:53, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Collages are a bad thing. SeaTerror (talk) 16:40, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Okay I'm going to elaborate. First off, what IS the point of a gallery? To show "appearance"? No, appearance would be a character's physical features. If the gallery was for appearance, all we'd need is a childhood image, a 2yrs ago image, and a current image. Then is it to show the style of art? No again, or else the gallery would show the evolution of art and how different artists (oda, animators, game creators) draw each character. So what is it after all? Of course. It's there for the sole purpose of listing all the outfits the character wore throughout the series. Amazing. Now then if that's the purpose of the gallery, what's the point of cutting it short and picking out certain outfits just because we think they're the important ones? Remember, we're an online wiki for one piece + anything related and we always want to have all the information up to current we can as long as we call ourselves an encyclopedia. We're not a book either, so where's the need to save any space. Heck, we could have a Luffy article that's 3 million pages worth and still keep going, because the internet has no end.

Now that we know all this, what could we do to fit everything in? We already have a solution, at least for the Straw Hats. New tab. Throw all the outfits in there, one image each, including game outfits, childhood outfits, movie outfits, filler outfits, you name it. We could create another image tab on each character's infobox and sneak a childhood picture in there with the 2yrs ago and current appearance too. Add a manga vs anime image in the "Differences between manga and anime" section. Keep the wanted poster somewhere, let's say in the introduction tab. And voilà, we've got everything. If you change your mind at all after reading this, go ahead and change your vote right away, please, thank you. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 12:29, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Here is my flat-out opinion about this. I don't like our wiki's gallery system .. but hey, .. thats just me. I'm hater :P on-other hand .. I really like Fairy Tail wiki's Gallery system. Neat and if someone came to find a specific outfit of a character, he finds it. But many on this wiki will think that its impossible to have that kinda page for OP since OP has too many characters and the outfits rarely change and blah blah ..

SO!! since we can't do FT wiki style, I still want to have all outfits of the character on their page. Link or Tab does not matter as long as every outfit is there at its best quality ^_^ .. don't think that I have any personal feelings involved in this .. this is just my opinion =_= Monkey.D.Me (talk) 05:16, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

First off: This section was meant for discussing WHAT images we use. Not for the discussion of Gallery VS Tab. I know, I know, this forum is confusing. That's why I think wiki forums suck so bad.

Second: FT... urgh, nvm. It's not a bad solution. I prefer the way our gallery works, though, i.e. fixed square with image in it instead of just leaving it to its own size ratio. Looks less messy.    NeoWitch   16:01, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

Post-Vote Discussion

Ok, it looks like the new tabs have won out here. But I just want to make sure:

Does anybody really want a new tab for outfits for anyone other than the Straw Hats?

A bunch of people who voted for the new tab (myself included) said they wanted them only for the SHs. If nobody else is opposed to that, then we should be good. If they are opposed though, we should probably make another poll. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 03:21, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, an useless tab just for lot of pictures... Oh well, I say that the tabs should only be for the SHP.  Jade Talk   04:47, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Quote:
For the galleries of the main cast (members of the Straw Hat crew) the following should apply:

  • A gallery at the end of the Appearance page with outfits from a few selected events (optional: state which events should be included under Event List)
  • An own gallery tab with a complete list of outfits worn throughout the series

It was clearly Straw Hats only from the beginning. Zodiaque             05:11, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, now that is sorted out, let make the tabs and move the pictures to the tabs.  Jade Talk   05:13, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

We just made the tabs. But on the chat, some users appears to be confused about which pictures are to be add on the gallery tabs. Every single outfit or their main outfit in a saga or whatever. Did we even resolved this?  Jade Talk   06:31, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Quote: "An own gallery tab with a complete list of outfits worn throughout the series" Does that answer your question?

  ✦✦✦✦✦  ✦✦✦      +             +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +    06:56, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

So that's everything. Gotcha. Thanks.  Jade Talk   06:59, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Just a reminder for these who hadn't noticed yet. We originally added tabs for the images as the community decided but DP wanted to change it. So there's no tab, only a page. The link for it is on their appearances. Everyone fine with this? Or do some of you want a tab like we originally had voted on?  Jade Talk   14:07, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Even if the poll said "tab" why making a tab for it? Just put in on the page and separate each gallery... there are already too many tabs. Besides the introduction tab is basically the appearance section, so I think it's stupid to separate the gallery. leviathan_89 15:03, 13 August, 2012 (UTC)


Well, I'd like to have the tab. It seems really bad to have all the outfit information separate from the pictures like we have right now. I think if we move the gallery, we should move the appearance information too. And in my mind the tab is the best option, because that way it's way easier to get to all the appearance information with it all on a tab. And then people clicking on a link to a SH can choose to load all the pictures/info etc. It's my understanding that the problem is that having a new tab forces there to be two rows of tabs, right? So I have a few solutions I would propose to get us the tab:

1) Deal with having 2 rows. We can fully spell out "Miscellaneous" or say "Miscellaneous Information" and have the second row more or less filled.

2) Get rid of the Introduction tab. We would still have the introduction page, and it would still be the page you're directed to when you click on or type in "Luffy" or whoever. We just wouldn't have a tab for it, because once the appearance information is moved, we won't have much information at all. It won't really be worth having the tab for little/no information people actually want to find out.

3) Merge the Intro and Misc tabs into one page.

I also still feel that the Wanted Posters shouldn't be in the appearance gallery, especially for people like Sanji, whose poster doesn't represent his appearance. I think we should have a section on the SHs bounties on their individual pages somewhere, and that is where we will have the posters displayed. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:12, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

No, I think the wanted bounties stay in the gallery. It show that they do have a bounty and what their bounties look like as well as show how much their bounty is. Why people don't want the bounties on the galleries is beyond me.  Jade Talk   15:17, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
It's not so much that the posters aren't completely representative of the appearance, so much as the bounties need a place that's better than the appearance section. Currently, Luffy's poster appears nowhere on his page other than this new gallery. It's hard to find, because it doesn't completely belong there. If you and other people really want them in the gallery, then we should also have them somewhere else on the characters page. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:52, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

If you move the appearance section in another tab we will have two tabs for just the intros and the appearance. That's pointless... and you cannot rid of the intro tab since it's the actual page, I know that you mean the link in the template but what's the point of making a tab template if it hasn't even all the link in it? What's wrong with this layout? I mean the history tab is huge in comparison... why are you scared of leave everything in a single tab? leviathan_89 15:29, 13 August, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's fine now. A tab saying "gallery" could be mistaken for a gallery as in "random pictures of that character doing all kind of shit" but linking it under appearance seems like a good way to make clear it's just a gallery of outfits and stuff.

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But what's wrong in leaving the gallery in the appearance section? It makes the page a bit nicer in my opinion... moving all the image in a basically hidden tab makes the introduction just a wall of text. leviathan_89 15:39, 13 August, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I would prefer the old style with all the outfits to what we have currently, like what you linked to Levi. But the fact remains that "new tab" won the poll, and keeping them in intro lost. So I want my proposals to be in line with what the majority wants, not what I think is best, or at least better than what we got stuck with. And again, what I really dislike about what we have currently is that the information about the outfits and the pictures of the outfits are on two separate pages. It seems very wrong to have to have two windows open for the same information. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:52, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the poll: it was meant to decide if allow the uploading of all the outfits-image or simply a few of them. In fact there wasn't even the option "all the outfits in the appearance section". The "tab" part was a bad wording which was one-sided decided by who made the poll. I fell that placing the outfits in the intros won't go against the poll decision, but if you think it would be more fair, since from the poll isn't clear if it's valid for every character or just the straw hats, we can make a final poll to clear up everything, deciding that as well where to place the images. leviathan_89 16:03, 13 August, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Levi and JSD. We should put the gallery and appearance section together, and the simplest way to do that is to rename as "Appearance" the "Introduction" tab—which virtually contains only appearance info. sff9 16:56, August 13, 2012

I don't see a need to rename the tab... but whatever, as long we put everything together like [this, I'm fine. leviathan_89 17:08, 13 August, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the old poll wasn't too clear. And I wasn't too clear in that yeah, I like the old style better than what we have, but my prefered option would be just having the two rows of tabs and having an "appearnce" tab. Unfortunately, I don't think we can really settle this without doing a new poll... Especially since only like 5 people have responded to this so far. I'm sure if anyone else joins in, they'll have a completely different opinion from everyone else. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 23:02, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

I saw what the new tab would look like, and no matter how you order the tabs, the only tab that goes down to the second row is the Misc. one, and that looks terrible. I don't really know what I want anymore. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 23:17, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

You can fit them in if you reduce the font size a negligible amount and change 'and' to '&', like this:

Introduction
[[Forum:Outfit Gallery Madness/Gallery|Gallery]]
[[Forum:Outfit Gallery Madness/Personality & Relationships|Personality & Relationships]]
[[Forum:Outfit Gallery Madness/Abilities & Powers|Abilities & Powers]]
[[Forum:Outfit Gallery Madness/History|History]]
[[Forum:Outfit Gallery Madness/Misc.|Misc.]]

People are probably just against there being too many unnecessary tabs, which is fair enough. Zodiaque             02:04, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Gallery tab should be at the end. SeaTerror (talk) 02:09, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with that layout that Zodiaque made. But I do still think the Gallery should be part of the "Appearance" tab. We have to keep the information and the pictures together. And if we make it "Appearance" instead of "Gallery" there's still only one row of tabs. And it should be second left to right, in order to keep it in line with the template we follow with regular articles. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 02:17, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

The sense I'm getting from the majority of people currently discussing is, "Let's disregard the decided outcome and go onto make our own thing." Look, no offence but at this rate Neo's idea is going to become completely forgotten, and we'll be voting over this all over again.   Kuro      Ashi   02:25, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Which of Neo's ideas are you referring to? The proposals she put forward were all more limited than the poll outcome reached, which was 'every outfit on a gallery tab for the Straw Hat Pirates'. The main issue after that was that DP didn't like the tab (he hasn't weighed into this discussion yet so I'm not 100% sure as to the reason). Zodiaque             06:24, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Zodiaque's format, but in my opinion the Gallery should be second last before Misc. Not that much important but still more important then Misc. I was actually thinking of a Time-Line kind of page where from the first to last outfit worn in in order and beside the outfit is the description of the outfit in details with links to cosplay merchandise of that outfit if its out in sale. But this is just a after-decision suggestion .. lets first focus on getting the tabs selection and then put them in action.   ☆ MDM ☆ (◕‿◕)   02:44, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

@"Let's disregard the decided outcome and go onto make our own thing." that's not it. The poll was meant to decide whenever allow the uploading of all the outfit image, it wasn't clear if that was valid for all character (many who voted that specified that too) or where the gallery would be put. The fact the options says "tab" was a bad wording choice by who made the poll, think about it: then where are the options for other possible places?
About the tab, my point still remains: removing the images from the first tab make the introduction (which is the first thing a visitor see) a wall of text and the gallery tab just a small tab with only images. On other wikis they have the gallery tab, but they use it differently: they add relevant images in the article and then random images in the gallery. Moving the whole appearance in the gallery would make the introduction basically an empty page.
If we will ever vote to settle this matter, we should decide:

  • Where the gallery should be placed:
    • In the intro like it was before:
    • In an own tab
    • In an own tab alongside the appearance section
    • split the gallery between relevant image in the intro and outfits in the gallery
  • Which characters outfits images are allowed to be uploaded:
    • Only Straw hats
    • All
    • (I don't know if there are other options)

leviathan_89 10:20, 14 August, 2012 (UTC)

About your second question, the poll says "main cast (straw hat pirates)". sff9 10:27, August 14, 2012
Didn't read that! :P leviathan_89 18:19, 14 August, 2012 (UTC)

I like Zodiaque's tabs but Gallery should be the last tab in my opinion.

The poll choices were limited because at that point it were the only options brought up at this point. Maybe it was bad wording on my part but basically the discussion was about having a separate gallery with all images or a gallery at the end of the introduction with only selected events - a complete gallery at the end of the introduction looks horrible!

The whole "gallery or not" discussion was limited to the members of the Straw Hat Pirates because they are the freaking main cast and only they have enough appearance changes for a gallery worth creating. I don't see any point in adding a separate gallery to any other character's article.

Lastly, the Straw Hats are the only characters with tabs in their articles so just adding a tab was the most obvious choice.

EDIT As for the Introduction being just text without the gallery: The introduction isn't very long anyway and in my opinion you only need pictures after say 3 lines of text beneath the infobox.

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Tabs wouldn't be a great idea, but I'm sure some of you don't agree to a simple link either. So I thought up a "button". It can be placed exactly where the link is places (below the Appearance heading). This is how it looks like:

The good points of this would be:

  • No need anymore to remove space in the tabs to still have a tab-like link to the gallery
  • It is truly noticeable, whilst the link could be missed out, this is not something you can miss and you know how much people like images :D
  • It has the SHP colorscheme so it fits in with their pages and it doesn't seem out of place
  • It increases the aesthetic of the pages (imo at least)

If you want it to be smaller, it can be done. I await suggested changes. But if most of you wish to keep it as a link, that's fine too. It's just me not feeling good enough with something as plain as that there XD.   リ チ ャ ー ド   Strong Fist «ℑ» «ℜ» «✩» «☯» Mornin'! ™13:24/14/Aug/2012 (UTC) 

Does nobody see how we loose understanding if all the text describing the outfits in the appearance section is separated from the actual pictures of the outfits in the gallery? Or can someone explain to me how separating two pieces of very related information is a good thing? JustSomeDude...  Talk | 15:09, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Can someone please explain to me WHY we're dragging this out? --Cheese Lord (talk) 18:13, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I think the button is inconsistent with the general style, so either a tab or a simply link under the section title, that's if we decide to keep the gallery separated. There is also the option to break up the gallery like we do for some sub-section which have an own article, but I don't think many will like this idea. "A complete gallery at the end of the introduction looks horrible! ", that's the evidence that there are many point of views, I think it's better that way (well actually I didn't want the complete gallery at all). leviathan_89 18:25, 14 August, 2012 (UTC)

I was just wondering if we should add the strawhats' omake appearances too? Most omakes have characters based off the strawhats and others. We should also add stuff from the specials like boss luffy. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 18:41, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Add a "Specials" sub-headline and put the Omake under that one.

Another thing: Is it necessary to write "Character's outfit during XY Arc" under every single image? Wouldn't it be enough to just put the arc(s) underneath?

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Agreed. sff9 10:36, August 15, 2012

Neo, I did that because most of the pictures' captions seems to be like that and as the wiki should be consistent, I made the others to be like that. If you guys want it to be written in a different way, talk it out on here. Personally, I do like it because it tell when the SHs are wearing the outfits, but honestly, I don't really care what we use for the captions as long as it's consistent.  Jade Talk   12:54, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

And yes, we should add the outfits from the Omakes and whatever else. Do as Neo said, I rather like her idea.  Jade Talk   12:54, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Since that since whole page is about Outfits, we don't need to write "Yada Yada's Outfit from Yada Yada Arc." but lets not cut short with just "Yada Yada Arc." .. we can just write "Yada Yada Arc Outfit" .. thats it .. for example "Water 7 Arc. Outfit" .. nothing more, nothing less .. .. UNLESS!! there are more then 1 outfits wore during that arc by that character. Also, yes we need to add "Omake".  ☆ MDM ☆ (◕‿◕)   19:05, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

The gallery tab should be at the end. It should not go before the other tabs. SeaTerror (talk) 15:23, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I moved the gallery tab to the second place. Have we made some kind of decision on this matter? I was not updated... I simply move the tab because the standard character page layout has the gallery section as subsection of "Appearance". Since the tab split the article but not the order and since the appearance section is the first tab, the gallery should goes second, that's all. leviathan_89 15:37, 2 September, 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of which, can't we make the tabs smaller as suggested earlier to fit them in one row? That one isolated tab doesn't look good in my opinion.

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I'd prefer gallery at the end. Levi did make the tabs smaller, but they're too small at the moment - the font-size should be 96%, which is the highest it can go before spilling over into the next row (at least on my computer, not sure if things display differently for others). (EDIT: never mind, tried again on the actual infobox page and 92% was the max) Zodiaque             16:00, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't decided but I mentioned it here right after the vote. With 1 or 2 people agreeing with it. SeaTerror (talk) 16:03, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Mention what? Making it smaller? It really should though, and the tab should be at the end instead.    Karoo       Talk    16:17, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Well change them as you like... although I think it should be second place to keep it consistent with the sections order. leviathan_89 16:46, 2 September, 2012 (UTC)

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