It came to my attention that there is a minor case of gallery spamming going on again. I would like to prevent the same thing to happen as in case of Nami's gallery. So, since I can't find any guidelines on that topic I thought it should be discussed.
Putting every single outfit the main characters ever wore in the gallery will lead to an endlessly long gallery. We should limit it to the most notable ones, i.e.
- child appearance
- the initial outfit - if it isn't in the infobox already (as it should be in my opinion) it needs to be in the gallery
- Wanted poster
- Strong World & Film Z - Since those are considered "canon" due to Oda working on them personally, they should be in the gallery. However, I don't think it is necessary to list every outfit. e.g. I find the outfits the Strawhats wore during their very first encounter with Shiki unnecessary as they only appear in one short scene.
- game appearances & Mugiwara Chase - In fact I think we should put those in the respective game's/movie's article instead of the character pages. (or at least complete them for all characters instead of just Nami and Robin =_=)
If we really want any arc outfits, they should be limited to the most important arcs of a saga, i.e. Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby and either Thriller Bark or Sabaody.
I do not see any need for the other outfits, like Jaya or Davy Back Fight. I don't think we need to show the Punk Hazard appearance either, unless you want to make one "Most recent appearance" spot on the gallery.
♠ 08:46, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Personally I'm happy to support any policy to stop the spamming of outdated fashion, so really my vote will be pretty easy.
But, I'd like to present two alternative options which I discussed earlier in chat (I know you didn't like them Neo, but we need to lay out all the cards~). The first is simply converting the current gallery into a slideshow gallery, as can be seen on the Fairy Tail wiki for several purposes.
The other is something they do on the Bleach Wiki, where they have a separate tab (Warning: It's a large page) for images involving the character. I'm not suggesting we do anything near as extensive as it shows there, but we could have another tab used for the sole purpose of an outfit/appearance gallery. We'll be sating the need for those who desire to see the Straw Hat's entire wardrobe on display, and the need of others who don't want to see it spill into the information tabs.
Either way, we'd end up with a gallery of between 10-20 images for the main characters, which will be in it's own area for people to see at their own choosing.
But like I said, I'm perfectly happy with Neo's idea as well. Just presenting some alternatives.10:01, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Or more simply anything that shows something interesting about the appearance of the character: the outfits are not really interesting because they are just decorations. If we ever decide to make an outfit gallery, it should definitely go in another section. leviathan_89 10:23, 26 July, 2012 (UTC)
It's not that simple, Levi. If you google One Piece we are one of the first sources for both images and information. (I, for instance, like to use this wiki's images for reference when drawing.) Therefore we should opt for completeness of information.
I agree that we should include some interesting misc images, like Okama Sanji or Afro Luffy.
However, the galleries of the main cast are going to go out of hand if people don't know what exactly to put in there. Therefore we need some kind of guidelines to go by.
♠ 11:21, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Even if I personally don't care about them, I'm not against having the comprehensive set of outfits—just not in the main page gallery.
That said, I'm not comfortable with some of your propositions Neo:
- Wanted poster: OK if it is official, but in the vast majority, they are fanart. I know wanted posters are an exception of the guidelines for which fanart is allowed, but that doesn't make sense in my opinion. What's the point, seriously?
- SW and Z: 1) their canon status is debatable, 2) how is canonicity related to the gallery? All of Nami's outfits that were removed were canon too.
So, my proposition for the gallery would be:
- child appearance
- initial outfit
- wanted poster (if an official one is available)
- 3–5 misc interesting images (with the possibility to put more if necessary).
Now, as I said, having a new tab with all outfits and for example artstyle evolution for the main characters would not be anti-encyclopedic at all.
Finally! A forum about this! I'm fully with Neo on this about limiting the pictures. We have excellent description of the clothes they wear in the arcs, I don't see the point of adding pictures for it.
And Kuro, I don't agree about the slideshow. When that crazy Nami obsessed guy Jimbe made the outfits' gallery into a slideshow (or maybe it was someone else?), I thought it looked rather hideous, and did not go along well with the other gallery: This was what it looked like.
I also dislike the idea of making a page just for the pictures. That would be going too far. Anyone can just google them up.
Overall, I think we should do as Neo said in her first post in here. It sound a great one. Of course, Sff's idea is also appealing as well.16:12, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
I personally never saw any of this as a problem the way it was (for example, Robin's page). The introduction section is not a big page, and there is no reason to make it even smaller only to make a new page that is nothing but pictures. And how come it is ok to have a all of the image descriptions but not the pictures, which actually takes up LESS space? I think all of the major outfits and wanted posters and such should be allowed. On a semi-unrelated note, do we seriously have a picture of Franky on Nami's page that says "Nami inside Franky's body"? That isn't Nami's appearance, that is Franky's. ••PX15..•• 16:32, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Just make a gallery tab like this http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Face_Freeze!/gallery SeaTerror (talk) 17:19, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
I agree. I thought it was cool to show their outfits. Making a separate gallery page is a good idea. Lots of wikis do it, and the characters were a bunch of clothing (and will continue to), so making a separate page for it could help everyone get want they want. The page could display all of the characters' outfits and they won't be spamming the Introduction.
Oh, yeah! Before I forget, Jademing, I wanna remind everyone that for the Appearances sections for the other Straw Hats are incomplete. The only ones done (sort of) are Luffy and Zoro's, minus their clothing from fillers and the canon movies (I did them, so I was focusing on main clothings than the fillers at the time). Robin's is the second closest to being done (not all of them are listed), and then Nami's.--NinjaSheik 18:23, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice to show their outfits, but not too many, as that guy did. I mean, a little more than 40 pictures? Come on, you have to be kidding me. That's just too much, and anyway, most of them are in terrible quality. That's why I went along with Neo's idea which also includes outfits from an important arc from a saga. Not too many pictures, so we don't have to go crazy about the pictures.
Oh, and Ninja, I think you did a nice job on these descriptions of their clothing.18:35, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Well, maybe it'd better to separate them sub section. Like, one section for the main outfits for the canon storyline (clothes from arcs like Alabasta and Enies Lobby, only canon arcs clothes), then one section for fillers (like the Spa Island one), and then one for the games and the movies. That way, they gallery won't be one HUGE thing, but instead in separate sections. That's how we do it on the KH Wiki.
And thanks, but describing clothes isn't my forte, even though I'm a girl. I mainly worked it for myself, if I'm being honest. I was working on a One Piece fanfic before I decided to reveal myself (you know, when I was still editing as anon), and I was using descriptions of the clothes in the story (I liked the Straw Hats' clothes very much, so I wanted to use them in my story). So, when the other users urge me to create an account, I logged in, reveal myself as NinjaSheik, and I started doing the Appearances as a way to save time for doing it later in my fic. That, and it was done pretty sloppy and unfair.
Robin's appearances were the best, but I didn't understand why her page was the only one that looked the cleanest when the other Straw Hats' didn't. So, I did it as a way to benefit me and then the wiki, but I was reluctant since I didn't know how to describe clothes very much. And then people were being unfair to me, frustrated me, so I quit doing them when I was in the middle of Nami's. That being said, I'm not doing it again, for the record. Like I said, I'm only doing minor edits since "this happened and that happened", and quite frankly, I kinda lost my patience with guys doing major edits. The only time no one bugged me was when I was doing the Appearances, I deduced that because no one wanted to it themselves and no one even helped me.
But, all because I don't wanna do it anymore, doesn't mean I don't want it to thrive. I agree that lots of the images are low quality, but that's because they were probably images taken from Photobucket and other people on the web. I saw the exact same image for Robin's Thriller Bark on a Photobucket user's account a long time ago (along with lots of others).--NinjaSheik 19:13, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
So, basically, the options are
- only selected events
- an own gallery tab
Is that it? I can't believe nobody else has something to say about the topic.
♠ 21:44, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
- Leave as is.
...but that isn't really an option anymore. If I had to pick, I would say only selected events. There is no need for a new tab in my opinion. The introduction page is not large enough to be split up. ••PX15..•• 22:27, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
PX is right, we could always leave it as it was. And I believe that PX is also right about no need for a new tab. So we have three options:
- Only selected events
- A tab just for the pictures or whatever
- Leave it as it is.
I think we should go along with selected events, if not leave it alone as it is. Just my two cents, of course.22:32, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
Bump. I would be fine with leaving the galleries as they are, but only one outfit per arc. Throw in the wanted poster, few related pics, Strong World, Z appearance, and video games and we are good. ••PX15..•• 18:57, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
We had one outfit per arc, it was a mess. That is why I said we should only have one outfit per saga. ♠ 07:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
Crap, man. Why do I always join the forums after they're discussed? I would like to ask if anyone's considered a whole new article for outfits. We could describe them in better detail and we could include every outfit. We could list better information, like when this outfit appeared. And then the galleries wouldn't be cluttered with clothing. 16:00, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Technically the discussion isn't over, so you're free to join it. And yes, if you had read the discussion thoroughly, you'll see that we had discussion about making a tab for the pictures. 16:34, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Currently, we also have descriptions in the text of Luffy/Nami/etc's articles describing every outfit they ever wore in every single arc. Should we get rid of all the text for the images we remove as well?16:50, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
First, the descriptions are incomplete. And would you get rid of the text? If you do that, then you aren't providing full information of the characters for their Appearance sections.--NinjaSheik 17:41, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
No, I read about the tabs. But that would put an indivisual tab on every character. I'm talking about one collective article that would have Luffy's outfits, Zoro's outfits, Buggy's outfits, Crocodile's outfits, etc. We could move the descriptions from the character articles to the wardrobe article and everything patches up quite nicely. 17:45, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- That might work as well. But the page would be very long if there's only one collective article for pretty much everyone. So yeah, I say no to that. 18:00, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Yup, it would be horribly huge, both in length (dirty and hard to use), and in size because of hundreds of pics (long to load).
- Not that many characters have costumes. We could get it nice and organized, I think it would look nice. But I guess not having it would be just as easy. 20:29, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Yup, it would be horribly huge, both in length (dirty and hard to use), and in size because of hundreds of pics (long to load).
The discussion is still open.
An own article for the outfits... no, just no. This is almost as pointless as the articles about the different jobs on the ship (first mate, musician, etc.) Is there anyone who even reads those articles?
I had another idea, which might be a compromise to the gallery/tab thing: Instead of squeezing it into every character's article, we could make a tab in the Straw Hat Pirates article with a table that shows both the art evolution and the outfits of the major arcs. ♠ 10:01, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Straw Hats aren't the only ones who change clothes, you know. You think Buggy's article would look nice with two tabs? Wardrobe and Everything Else? 15:37, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes but an article with all of the characters' different outfits would be way too long. Why not keep the characters' pages the same, a small gallery on each of the pages? 17:24, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
This poll will close at 00:00 on August 11th, 2012. To vote you must have been here for at least three months and have at least 300 edits.
For the galleries of the main cast (members of the Straw Hat crew) the following should apply:
- A gallery at the end of the Appearance page with outfits from a few selected events (optional: state which events should be included under Event List)
- ♠ 07:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- 15:13, July 28, 2012 (UTC) There's not that much pictures necessary for making a tab just for the pictures, making it more or less useless.
- Cheese Lord (talk) 17:53, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- 18:07, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- ❖ 18:39, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- 15:29, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
- ••PX15..•• 03:33, July 30, 2012 (UTC) Making another tab is completely pointless and only clutters the page further.
- An own gallery tab with a complete list of outfits worn throughout the series
- SeaTerror (talk) 08:09, July 28, 2012 (UTC) (Only for important characters like the Straw Hats)
- http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r631/jaimini626/WatchOnePieceEpisode531EnglishSubbed-WatchOP1.png 08:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC) I think that a tab sould be made for Straw-hats and a slide show gallery for other characters.
- 12:29, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- --NinjaSheik 17:47, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Galaxy9000 (talk) 18:23, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- 09:59, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Bastian964 23:26, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
Neo's suggested events/images for the gallery option:
- wanted poster (if it's official)
- initial outfit (if it isn't in the infobox)
- Strong World: Traveling outfit and formal
- Z: official outfits (for now)
- 1 outfit per Grandline saga (Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Sabaody)
- 2-3 misc images showing interesting changes (Okama Sanji, Afro Luffy, etc.)
All other game or movie outfits should be moved to their respective movie/game page. As for Punk Hazard: There should only be an image if the character switched bodies with another AND there is a visible change to the appearance during that state. (i.e. Sanji in Nami's body doesn't look any different so there is no need for an image. However, Nami retains her eye shape in both Franky's and Sanji's body. The image only makes sense if it depicts these changes.)
♠ 07:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
- I still don't get the SW and Z part. What's so important about them? Formal outfit from SW is weird and unusual enough to warrant a place among the misc images—but why an "official" item, and why including the traveling outfit?
- BTW, another category of pics that are often found in galleries and should be legit (while not being "misc") is that of pics showing different colorschemes (manga vs anime, initial vs current…)
SW and Z because they aren't the usual type of clothing the Straw Hats wear. For instance, Luffy usually only wears vests with a pair of jeans shorts. But I do agree with the manga vs anime part. 12:34, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
As I said before, I simply think that we should put only interesting stuff regarding the character's appearance, ignoring the outfits. I know that's kinda vague, but for further issues we just use the talk pages and I'm speaking for all characters. This is because I get the feeling we just associate "appearance" = "outfits", they may be interesting sometimes, but I think the most interesting image are those regarding physical features, different colorschemes, character's design evolution and so on. I understand that you don't mean that, but I fear that we are setting up rules that would limiting the galleries' potential just to rule out some random outfits, so if that's the case I propose that we just mark as unnecessary outfits images (but add some exception if we think it's the case) and leave the rest as it is now, meaning trusting the editors' judgement and relying on the talk pages for further issues, in fact wasn't this whole forum born for the sake of avoiding adding all the outfits worn by the main characters through the series? leviathan_89 13:11, 28 July, 2012 (UTC)
I feel like we should have only the major arcs' outfits. In my mind those are the longer arcs with large story impact, and there's generally only one per saga. So those are initial, Alabasta, Skypeia, Enies Lobby, Thriller, Sabaody, and post-timeskip. Thriller isn't that major of an arc, but the designs are different enough for me. SW should be included, because it's close enough to canon for me, and the designs are different enough to be shown, but only the classy outfits. Any outfit that is referenced in the text of the manga (or anime if the outfit is non-filler) should also be included. Examples of that are Afro Luffy, Luffy's Amazon Lilly (with flowers and without), Nami's Thriller Wedding dress, etc. (Is Okama Sanji in the manga or his cover story?) Z hasn't come out yet, so let's leave those outfits on the Z film's page. PH is just everyone's normal post-skip outfit, plus coats. That's not that important in my mind.
Video Games shouldn't be included at all. There's a bunch of them, and it's impossible to say which ones are more important than the others, because none of them are any closer to canon than the others. The video game designs should be included on each game's page. We don't have any character's history, relationships, or abilities from the games on the character's page, so why should we have their appearance?15:57, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Oh yeah, the wanted posters deserve to be on the pages, I'm just not sure that the "appearance" section is the best spot for them. Especially for Sanji's, which doesn't actually show his appearance. I think a new section devoted to changes in the boutnties/wanted posters should be made somewhere on each character's page. Kind of like what we have here [] but on the character's page, and with the different posters. 16:20, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
So you stated the major arcs in your opinion, but what about others? I don't think you can pic which are major and which aren't if you ask me. All are connected and lead up to the current. Heck, we could just wipe out the entire gallery section for all we know if we're gonna have to speculate on which outfits are from the "major" arcs or games. The only really important thing for me is the appearance in manga and anime 2 years ago and now. Possibly game appearances, who knows. I do agree about the bounty poster part though.
Another completely new idea would be the evolution of art for the characters throughout the series in their appearance galleries, but thats just seems out of the question right now. 17:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
The major arcs are the ones that lasted the longest (and/or had the most story impact and are most memorable). And the longer the arc, the longer each character wore each outfit. And the longer each character wore the outfit, the stronger the association of that outfit to the character. So yeah, we totally can rank the importance of outfits based on arc importance. It's not a perfect rule, but but as long as we make exceptions where needed (the outifts that are referenced in the text, etc), it should work fine.17:49, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Again, most impact and most memorable are both elements that differ in each of our minds. I'm pretty sure each outfit was worn around the same amount of chapters/episodes excluding fillers and the Straw Hats' initial clothing. And even if we find that some arcs are longer than others, if we add those 'special case outfits' then the number of outfits in a gallery total would be so close to the total number of outfits worn, the meaning of lessining the number of gallery images in the first place would be lost. 18:18, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but is anyone seriously going to make a case that the Davy Back, Jaya, Post-Enies Lobby, or any filler arcs are more important than Alabasta, Sabaondy, or Thriller Bark? Things are subjective to a point, but I think that enough of us can agree to make conclusions about this. Maybe a poll or two has to happen, but I think agreement can be reached without much fuss. And the point of this forum is to lessen the number from when someone added every outfit ever, not to reduce it from what it was originally. The special case outfits would exist only for certain characters too, so it wouldn't add every outfit ever. For some characters like Luffy, there may be a bunch of special cases, but Chopper probably won't have many at all (if he has any). But that is totally ok. And I forgot to say it before, but I support childhood images as well.21:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
The main arcs are those their respective saga is directed at. Baroque Works = Alabasta, Skypiea = Skypiea (duh), CP9 = Enies Lobby and Whitebeard War = Marineford. Sabaody is also important for the WB War saga because this is when the Straw Hats had their first major defeat.
Art evolution is a point in the article about Oda. If you want it for the main cast, the best way would be a collage (to prevent random uploads).
♠ 09:53, July 30, 2012 (UTC)