Talk:Charlotte Moscato

There's no proof he's dead

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There was someone in the crowd who shouted "She killed her own son" but there's no proof that she actually did, whoever shouted that was just a witness that saw him be attacked. For Muscat to die after losing 40 years he would need to be at the very least 30-40 years old. For all we know he could have fainted after she took those 40 years, there is no way to really know if he's dead or not. For now I'd leave his status in "unknown". If Scotch is under "alive" after Caribou suffocated him then Muscat has to stay under alive or at least unknown.

88.11.144.218 20:36, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

FUCKING CALLED IT LOL --Jojo risin' (talk) 20:41, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

You mean like how Ace fainted in Marineford?DancePowderer Talk 21:16, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

He means like how Pell was blown up or how Sabo was, pretty sure you know the story, especially of the second one.  Apoelpaoole  Apoel talk  21:51, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I completely 100% believe Muscat is alive. That being said, this is a wiki and we have to present factual information. The characters described him as dead, and our understand as a reader is supposed to be that he is dead. Please, leave it be. Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 21:56, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. My comment was going to DP, because it's like there isn't any possiblity that Muscat is alive cause Ace died. Apoelpaoole  Apoel talk  22:09, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

We just don't know how her powers work exactly so unknown would be better. SeaTerror (talk) 22:18, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

It was pretty evident that the citizens knew what Big Mom would do, given all their warnings to Muscat, so for them to pronounce him dead after getting attacked makes it pretty clear that he is indeed dead. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:40, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

I agree, unless he wakes up later, we should go with what the citizens say: he's dead. Yata ^{Talk to me} 23:26, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Come on, have you read the chapter? Someone in the crowd asked "Did she killed her son?" That's not a proof of anything. We have rejected far more "solid" proofs of death in the past. leviathan_89 10:47, 17 June, 2016 (UTC)

No they didn's ask.. They shouted in shock that she killed her own son.. You know how speech works. They pronounced him dead, he is dead.  Staw-Hat Luffy  Talk  12:58, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

The citizens had seen this before, given all of their advice to Muscat, and they knew what was coming. They were just shocked that Big Mom did it to her own son. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:01, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

"They pronounced him dead, he is dead." - they are not doctors, come on! You said it yourself "they shouted in shock". In shock. That would leave plenty of room for exaggeration. You know how it works... you can replace what they said with "OMG SHE KILLED HER SON! THIS CHARACTER IS SO CRAZY! HYPE!" and would have the same meaning. It's not that unlikely after all, and that sentence it's not really that trustworthy as a proof. leviathan_89 13:28, 17 June, 2016 (UTC)

Chopper also said Brownbeard was dead. SeaTerror (talk) 13:29, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Do we have to do this every time someone "dies"? This is honestly a waste of everyone's time. He appeared on like 3 pages in one chapter, and, if he is in fact dead, that will be it. They said he was dead, so let's stick with that. It isn't our job to "interpret" Oda's writing or make silly statements as arguments. I am so sick of these death discussions.Montblanc Noland :: Talk 13:36, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

That's because you take the first sentence you read as definite proof. How many times someone turned out "not dead"? Is that a legitimate reason to at least wait and see before jumping and declaring someone dead? If next chapter one of the sisters/brothers says "Mama killed Muscat", then that would be a trustworthy opinion. Not some crowd which yells in shock. leviathan_89 13:46, 17 June, 2016 (UTC)

The crowd was shocked that Big Mom killed her own son, not that she pulled out someone's life force. It's obvious that they've seen it been done before. And one Muscat's sisters did see him die. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 13:50, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

I love would say unknown until the end of the arc. Usually in these cases the character is shown again at the end of the arc if they are shown as alive. Not to say that I think Muskrat is alive, but I think discussion of his death is more definitive after the arc is over. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 14:49, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

But will we get any confirmation? Oda introduced him this chapter and apparently killed him off a few pages later. Is he going to be anyone important enough to revisit? So far, everyone on the scene recognized him as dead after Big Mom did something that they were all familiar with. Not to mention we actually saw his body drop to the ground. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 16:03, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Dead until proven otherwise. If in 2 or 3 years we see him again, alive and well, then we can change his status to alive. Another more neutral solution I have in mind is to simply put "unknown" as his status. Roranoa Drake II (talk) 16:10, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Isn't this why we made that "presumed deceased" category? uknownada ^Talk 17:16, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

A better title for this discussion would be "There's no proof he's alive". He was said to be dead, Big Mom's ability has been introduced as being very lethal by literally draining the life out of a person, and we saw her doing it to Muscat and him falling to the ground immobile and with blank eyes. All facts indicate that he's dead, we have no proof that he's alive other than speculation. Facts versus speculation. Deceased wins. If he turns out to be alive later, we change his status, but until then he stays as deceased as per the information we have so far.--Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 18:04, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Presumed deceased was deemed to speculative. To not call him dead after he was declared such makes us look like we know better than what was actually stated in the source material, which we don't. We go by what was stated here. Also, does the name Mr. 11 ring any bells?DancePowderer Talk 18:10, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

The facts you all are happy to quote are some crowd who shout in shocks after seeing what happen. I don't know what the correct translation is, but that statement is actually a question like the classic "Did he beat him?" you read every time after a fight. Like that kind of "evidence" is foolproof or can be considered a "statement". I agree we must state what we know, but I am simply questioning the validity of the information at hand because this case is way less "clear" then it was in others like Sabo's. If one of the brothers reported to someone else "Mama killed muscat" (like maybe it can happen next chapter for example) then that would be a trustworthy statement. A dressrosa people thought Luffy was a giant and if we go back I'm sure we will find other cases of people say comments like "did he killed him?". I don't really get why you are all so sure, while other times you are so cautions or skeptical. Would that hurt waiting at least next chapter before jumping the gun like we usually do? leviathan_89 18:22, 17 June, 2016 (UTC)

I'm fine with using "Unknown" until the next chapter. Awaikage Talk 19:06, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Levi, the statement "She killed her own son?!" is not a question, but a statement of shock. "?!" together is used to indicate disbelief at something, not to ask a question. All the citizens knew what happened, given their warnings to Muscat, they were just shocked that Big Mom killed her own son. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 19:31, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

What matters in this case isn't what we believe or interpret, it's about Oda's authorial intent. He gave us 0 hints that Muscat may be alive, and a flat-out announcement of his death. I do believe that Muscat is alive. That's not our role to play as a wiki. What Oda tried to communicate to us is what we're recording, even if it'll get changed in a week (more likely 10 weeks from now). Ryu-Chan•|•Talk 19:37, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

@Leviathan 89: I guess my comment sounded more "aggressive" than it was meant to be, but as I just said, I really see no reason to support the "alive" theory other than speculating about this and that. Honestly, this theory wouldn't even have crossed my mind if I hadn't run into this discussion. From my part, I think there is enough to state him as deceased and to little to call that into question. I guess I wouldn't mind if we until the next chapter, but it's like waiting until the worms begin to eat him.--Manuel de la Fuente (talk) 19:49, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Whether he truly is alive or dead, we won't know until at least the next chapter, but currently, the statements given indicate he is dead. So until/unless next time, he died. That's how we should see things, this isn't like Monet or Vergo. Yata ^{Talk to me} 23:52, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the little pastry guys are still alive too. You never know.--Sandwichman2449 (talk) 03:18, June 18, 2016 (UTC)