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There is a difference between transformation and forms. Nusjuro's transformations have been specifically mentioned in the article as unique, and the transformation from full to half is significantly different from the half to full so both should be depicted.

User:KingCannon has an issue with the wording (which I disagree with as I explained above), and hadn't given any reason to remove the images themselves. Rhavkin (talk) 06:10, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I was the one wrote that paragraph anyway. And you're completely misreading it to include unnecessary images.

Never mind that "First Transformation" is just Nusjuro slowly changing from Full Beast to Hybrid. There's nothing special there, but having thatimage just makes it seem there is, which is incorrect. Also, the wording implies it's an alternate form, which can confuse readers and twist what the article is saying.

In other words, the article is better off without that ambiguity. KingCannon (talk) 17:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

The transition from Full Beast to Hybrid doesn't show anything unique to warrant being an image. Maybe if the manga had a better demonstration, the transition from Hybrid to Full Beast could be shown like the page says, but it should not be counted as a "transformation" to imply it is an alternate form. AverageLiteratureEnthusiast (talk) 21:14, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Transformation is the process, not the form, and the purpose of the first image is to show that the second is an additional transformation, instead of what the paragraph imply to be a unique singular one.

Also, being the one who wrote a paragraph does not give you any special jurisdiction over it or how it read. Even if I am "completely misreading it" that more proof that it is not clear and an image is a way to better explain what is described (as stated at the top of One Piece Wiki:Guidebook/Image Guidelines. Rhavkin (talk) 03:59, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

You're arguing semantics now. "First transformation" can be easily read as "First form" and both words can be used interchangeably because they're synonyms. Just look at the Hito Hito no Mi and how we refer to Chopper's Normal and Rumble Ball "transformations". We are certainly not depicting processes there. There's a reason I used "transformation sequence" in the paragraph (to have no ambiguity), yet the fact you couldn't get that just speaks poorly of your own reading comprehension.

And the paragraph works by itself. You're the one trying to invent some new rule that "because the paragraph claims it's notable, then we MUST use an image" when that has never been a thing. Images by themselves are always optional when accompanying text. KingCannon (talk) 16:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Kitetsu Blade[]

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Did we ever confirm how many Kitetsu blade were created? If only three, it pretty much confirms he wields the Shodai. Yata Talk to me 17:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

The names literally mean "First Generation" (Shodai), "Second Generation" (Nidai) and "Third Generation" (Sandai), the latest one being Sandai created by Sukiyaki. Nusjuro's sword would have to be Shodai Kitetsu. Awaikage Talk 17:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

So we can put Nusjuro is the wielder of Shodai Kitetsu? Or would that be too soon like Uranus? Yata Talk to me 17:51, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

In regards to the rules of this wiki I would for one would be happy to wait until more conformation is presented. As the Shodai Kitetsu page has been locked down it can help with avoiding speculation, and I would also support locking down this page too if someone were to foolishly add in this speculation to this page as well. -Adv193 (talk) 18:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

If there are only three Kitetsu blades, and the other two are accounted for, then how would it be speculation to say that Ethanbaron wields the Shodai Kitetsu blade? Damage3245 (talk) 19:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

It seems too early to say he has the Shodai Kitetsu. Just because we only know of three Kitetsu blades doesn't necessarily mean there are only three. It seems more likely the name refers to specific swords made by the school - Sukiyaki refers to Kotetsu as his "forefather", at least in the VIZ manga, implying that some time passed between them. It seems odd no other swords would be made from a school of swordsmiths in that time. Walrsu (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

There is no evidence that there are more than three Kitetsu swords. Sukiyaki made the third generation (Sandai Kitetsu), and there is nothing to indicate that him or his successors (Oden, Momonosuke) have forged another one. It seems more speculative to hold on the possibility of having more than three, since there's absolutely nothing pointing to that. JFTcomics (talk) 02:29, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The argument for there potentially being more is that they were made before Sukiyaki and just didn't use the Kitetsu name, not that Oden or Momo made any. It's obviously speculative to say there definitely are more than three, but unless it's been stated there are three, I feel hesitant saying it with certainty. We'll likely learn more about Nusjuro's sword very soon anyways, so I don't see a point in rushing to list it as the Shodai Kitetsu.

Like Yata mentioned above, it feels similar to the case with Uranus - very likely the case, but not certain. Walrsu (talk) 02:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

We know that Zoro wields two of the 21 great grade swords, one of which he used in his clash with Nusjuro in chapter 1117, and Sandai Kitetsu is a regular grade sword. We also know that each subsequent Kitetsu is of a lesser quality than the one that came before it. I sincerely doubt that a lower grade Kitetsu could survive a hit from a great sword, wielded by Zoro no less. And we are talking about one of the Five Elders who rule the World Government. Frankly, it would be more out there to assume one of them weren't wielding one of the 12 supreme swords. I agree with the people who say it is more speculative to not call Nusjuro's sword Shodai. (GoldenOath20 (talk) 03:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC))

I looked back at Chapter 97, and while it’s the source of the name for all 3, it’s also stated “no swordsman in the world uses a Kitetsu blade” and yet we’ve seen Nusjuro with this sword since his introduction. If it’s possible that Nusjuro has been able to wield one without being known for it, it’s possible Ippon Matsu might not have heard of every Kitetsu blade as well. I think for right now it’s best to not specify it’s the Shodai, and wait to see if we get that explicit confirmation in the next few chapters. If we leave Egghead without it, we can discuss it again later. JustSomeDude...  Talk | 05:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Don't forget, only high ranking Marines are allowed to even look at the Five Elders. And how of often do you think they leave Mary Geoise and go into battle anyway?(GoldenOath20 (talk) 10:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC))