Trivia Worthy Edit
So just to confirm: this fruit grants 2 different powers, being the only one to do so?01:15, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
Copying over what I wrote on your page:
- I don't see the age halting and toy-transforming as completely unrelated. The way I see it, since kids are generally the only ones who play with toys, the fruit effectively keeps the user in a state where they're able to play with toys forever. The only problem I can see with this theory would be if someone older ate the fruit - we don't know if they would revert to a child, or just stop aging at whatever age they were. Also, it might sound too much like speculation, so I'm not sure what to do.
Anyway, there are a number of fruits that have abilities that are only vaguely linked, or at least their link is a "theme" (eg. Nikyu, Giro, Ope). The example of the Sube Sube no Mi also making the user skinny that DP reverted is also kinda relevant, although the difference is that it was explained as directly coming from the fruit's primary ability, which we don't have here.08:07, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
The way I see it, the fruit has an inseparable dual effect, those being transformation and associative memory loss. I don't think those two things can be separated, like you couldn't wipe someone's memories without turning someone into a toy. I would call the stunted aging a secondary effect.16:04, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
Kachi Kachi no Mi doesn't seem to have a linked effect either, turning rock hard and heating up. Okay, knocking stones together makes heat, that doesn't exactly sound right. Yami Yami no Mi is unique in having darkness (gravity) and ability nullification, but the Hobi Hobi no Mi is a little granting three different effects by toys and memory erasing (2 effects melded into one), and eternal life.05:24, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
"Those who are transformed into toys become forgotten" can also be compared to "those who have their shadows stolen disintegrate in sunlight". But this talk page is more specifically about whether the Trivia section should be removed, and the line "seemingly unrelated to the first" be removed from the second para of strengths and weaknesses.05:42, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
Well, toys being a child's thing, and aging stopped is a sign of remaining youthful (childish), we can't really use this as a connection for now, right? It'd be speculative. What about Kachi Kachi no Mi's heat up and rock hard, aren't they separate as well?06:54, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
Haven't seen the movie, but from reading that page it seems like knocking rocks together is the "theme", which fits together with the other themed fruits I mentioned earlier (pushing = high-speed travel, explosions, remove pain/exhaustion; insight = long-distance eyesight, mind-reading, whale tears; ope = surgery, manipulation, defibrillator etc). If he doesn't have to actually knock his fingers/fists together, you could be right, but in any case it's difficult to know where to draw the line in these cases. I can't think of any instance from an SBS where Oda's talked about the scope of a particular fruit and how its abilities fit together.
In regards to the Hobi Hobi no Mi, I know saying there's a link is speculative, but saying that there isn't a link is also speculative, and I don't think the line and the trivia are necessary.08:14, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
I agree does the fruit grants you eternat youth, or is this really a halting of your aging? what would happen if an older person eat the fruit? i think halting of aging is better than eternal youth. Doomroar (talk) 09:55, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Doomroar. The soldier said she hadn't aged since eating it. That just means she ate it when she was young. It's just coincidence that she's going to stay young forever. If it were Jora or Lao G who ate the fruit, they'd be middle-aged for the rest of their lives.10:06, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
"Eternal life" then?08:34, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, she can't die of old age I guess. She could probably get sick and die though...04:54, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
I would just call it stunted growth and aging.19:57, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
I don't want to go all medical in a shounen manga, but the fact that she doesnot age physically doesn't mean she has eternal lifespan. Her organs could still be vulnerable to the effects of time. About the Fruit's effect I think it should be mentioned under Abilities and Powers and nowhere else.
Aren't organs part of the never-aging body? And if her growth is stunted, doesn't that count as living forever as long as she is not killed?03:36, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
We're running into some real hypothetical shit here. All we need to say on the article is all we know from the chapter: That the fruit stopped her from aging. To say that it grants her eternal life or that her organs can still age is speculation since we've been told nothing that can confirm that. Talk | 05:18, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, let's just keep it simple. Speculation doesn't need to go into the trivia section.06:56, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
No need to complicate things.06:58, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, just wanted it to sound cool...07:57, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
Maybe, she transformed herself a toy which is exactly same of her body. Like the Sasori in Naruto. 188.8.131.52 07:13, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
Toys don't eat sweets. She does.07:56, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
That is true but there is a connection between these abilities, they relate to being a kid, kids play with toys and they control what the toys do, being young is a trait of children Jrotc193 (talk) 02:02, February 22, 2014 (UTC)
Body control Edit
"...and freshly turned people seem to have no control over their own bodies, moving on the orders of the one who converted them." - wasn't this due Trebol's hypnosis or did I misunderstood something? leviathan_89 20:39, 23 December, 2013 (UTC)
Trebol was just giving a command, right?20:56, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Ok, but on Trebol's page, we wrote "Trebol also appears to have the ability to manipulate the bodies of his victims, after they are transformed into toys. Whether this ability is related with hypnotism or another method, it is yet unknown". So it seems more logical to me that he is the one manipulating the people not Sugar or at least is only one of them. leviathan_89 21:34, 23 December, 2013 (UTC)
We don't really understand the nature of this power, but Trebol seems to have given the commands in 726. We can't rule out that there's a link to Hobi Hobi no Mi, but we can't prove there is one either Speculation at its best. Talk | 21:55, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
For all we know they're under the command of the first voice they hear and that always happens to be Trebol's. I doubt it's puppetry or anything like Doflamingo's powers. As much as I hate to say it, we gotta wait this one out.22:14, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
I suggest we remove the body control from Sugar and her fruit and leave it only on Trebol's page, since that is the only evidence/hint we have so far.
I agree.23:09, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Ok, now that it is confirmed that she does the hypnotizing, how should we go about it? Man this devil fruit has so many attributes!
That is speculation at best. All we can say is that her ability lets her turn people into toys and keep them in line with some kind of hypnotic power.18:12, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
I would go with "..turns them into toys, rendering them unable to resist/disobay her instractions/orders"
I think that is still Trebol to hypnotize people. After Sugar transforms Cavendish and says "we'll make a contract", the pirate still complains about his condition. After that Trebol says "stop talking and go work" and only at that moment Cavendish cannot talk anymore. Maybe (this is speculation) Sugar offers contracts to toys only because she has a childish behaviour, like Perona. Her words are just words, Trebol's words are orders. I hope to have explained clearly my ideas. --Meganoide (talk) 19:58, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
I think it's like this: Sugar makes the contract with Cavendish to not disobey the orders of the Family, but until Trebol actually tells Cavendish to shut up, there are no orders yet. Therefore the ability to control behavior is Sugar's, though other people can take advantage of her powers too. Talk | 03:01, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
It's pretty much like Lelouch's geass. She gave two commands; they have to be followed. If the order is "obey this person" then they have to follow all of those person's orders as well (the main example I can think of from Code Geass is a huge spoiler). Cavendish obeyed Trebol's order because he was forced to due to Sugar's order.
There's also no reason to think that Trebol was the one giving the order when Sai was turned into a toy. The text bubbles weren't pointing at anyone, so it was probably the same situation as we saw with Cavendish.06:22, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
In 738, it's proven the contract power is hers, and not Trebol's, as he wasn't even around for the Little Black Bears. Talk | 16:00, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, no doubt about it. We should put it in her abilities and de-activate this talk
power reversing Edit
I dont want to start an edit war or anything but I think we should add/keep the change that was made about it taking a while for the df effects to wear off & toys becoming human again. I'm sure if it was an instant change back it would have been a panel of them being toys & the next they were human, instead it had the extra panel of semi-toy/semi-human & in a few of the large scale pages I noticed a few toys were in mid change while others were fully human & some were still mostly toys. So from these scenes I gather that the change back is not instant like the change to a toy.420pirate (talk) 22:52, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
True, while the actual reversion is not immediate, the process does start right away.23:34, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
It seems weird to me that losing consciousness dispelled her curse, yet sleeping doesn´t. Unless she hasn´t slept a single night since she ate the fruit, somehow 184.108.40.206 06:28, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
Unconsciousness =/= sleep12:35, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
When you are asleep you are literally unconscious of whatever happens around you, unless you are a VERY light sleeper and can hear everything people say. 220.127.116.11 21:35, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
No. There is an actual difference. Look it up.21:38, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
"Once a toy has died, it cannot turn back to life"?Edit
Now that chapter 754 is out, I'm starting to have doubts about that. The first part of chapter 754 takes place in the scrap heap, but there's only broken furniture, and no broken toys. Is that enough to say that everyone turned back, or am I just overthinking it?Totoofze47 (talk) 11:44, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
It's really hard to say at this point, though that appears to be the case. I'm just curious as to why they weren't moving when the fighters landed down there.14:24, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
My guess is that they were in the middle of being returned to normal, something the manga's still images couldn't show. It's IMO the most likely explanation. Should we update the page now or wait a few chapter, just to be sure?.Totoofze47 (talk) 15:21, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
Normally I'd say wait, but it's not obvious this time.... unless there's an overwhelming influx of discussion, I say leave it for now.
It's recommended to throw away socks after a year 15:23, July 23, 2014 (UTC)