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Toky's status from deceased to unknown Edit

(TL;DR: Toky's fate should be like the one of the daughter as the surces of information are vague and can't be trusted) This wiki sais that Kozuki Hiyori's fate is unknown, but the same should be for Toki. The source of the information that she is dead is said to be chapter 920, but it's never said there. Two things may support the thesis that she is dead, first she sais that she has nothing more to do and thus she'll stay there to die and second they say that the profecy are her final words and thus after that she died. I want to point out that the second is unbelivable as they learned about it by the same persons that belived them to be dead. She could well have returned back inside the burning caltle, be taked for dead like the others and teleport into the future to escape, like the others. She do says that she arrived there at the terminus of her journey, but she didn't just stay there to die, she did a tactical move (the profecy with plenty of positive results) worthy of a scheming person and she did it without telling them. She kept her daughter to herself (again without telling them and thus making what she told them as questionable at least) when she sent the others into the future and unless she wanted the daughter to die with her it's higly likely that she wanted a different fate for her. The best way to do this is send her into the future, give the profecy, return inside the castle and travel to the same time she sent the daughter. As a mother I belive this to be a probable action considering that Toki's fate is considered unknown. Otherwise it would mean that Hiyori's fate is unknown because you belive probable that she sent the little daughter alone into the future as more probable that she going with her and lying to the others both to be able to act more freely (as a scheming person, as said before) and because the building was burning and thus she didn't have time to make them understand everything. Moreover we know nothing of her real motives and reasons. Characters lie and plot twists exist. As a result if is possible that Hiyori is safe, it's more probable that she is safe with her mother than without and for this reason I belive Toki's fate should be considered as unknown too. 93.42.46.22 13:37, December 10, 2018 (UTC) NamixVivi crackshipper

In Chapter 928 Momonosuke stated that people witnessed Toki's death, so I think it's safe to mark her deceased. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:56, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Kozuki Momonosuke stated way back in Chapter 819 that Kaido killed the former's mother. --140.227.209.178 17:21, January 16, 2019 (UTC)

Anime ImageEdit

Despite the only one we have is a silhouette, it is her last known appearance as of now, and having the manga image of her 10 years younger wouldn't have been acceptable on any other occasion, making the shadowed image, to only proper image. We have never had issues with silhouette infobox images, we never had issues with and anime image that isn't a direct adaptation from the manga image, and we never had issues with flashback characters, she why Toki (and Oden) should be different?

Infobox image must show the last known full appearance, and her current manga image should be in the Appearance section with the caption "Toki at age 26." and the silhouette of her from 20 years ago should be reverted. We will most likely have her last known appearance by the end of this flashback, and when that happen, no one would object to her last known appearance being the infobox image, and we already have the last known appearance, just in silhouette. Rhavkin (talk) 00:02, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

But a silhouette is not an actual "appearance." It can't even count as a "last known appearance" because appearance is not shown, which means it isn't known. Why use a silhouette when there is a visible one? Infoboxes need to show the character and blurry and un-see-able are the opposite of that.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 01:26, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

Because as I said, silhouette is all we have for now. Having a younger appearance is wrong when a current is available, no matter how lesser the image is since poor image > wrong image. Rhavkin (talk) 04:50, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

A young image isn't a wrong image. It's not like its a picture of her as a kid. Oda introduced Toki and Oden like that (that is their first official appearance, silhouettes don't count). It is better to see something, than nothing in this case. The whole reason for putting a younger image is because a current one is not available. A silhouette is not just a poor image - it doesn't count as an image at all in terms of showing anything.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 06:08, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

  • A younger image is wrong. There is a reason we separate the pre and post timeskip appearance, and ten years changes are more prominent then two.
  • Silhouettes does indeed count. Look at Loki, Im, and Ryokugyu.
  • "The whole reason for putting a younger image is because a current one is not available." that is only relevant to the manga image.

Look at Orochi's page. His anime image is shadowed, while the manga is his full appearance. The best infobox image is frontal, current\last know appearance, full body, and unsecured. Shadowed or silhouette is only acceptable when there is no alternative, and for the anime image. there isn't. Rhavkin (talk) 08:00, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

Silhouettes are not actual appearances therefore are wrong to use at all in ANY infobox image. SeaTerror (talk) 08:37, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

Don't change the topic. If you have something against the silhouette infobox images, go start a forum. This is about the fact that while they are still acceptable, Toki's image should be used despite a past, manga image is available. Rhavkin (talk) 09:05, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

Then don't be an idiot and mention anything about silhouettes during a discussion if you're going to try to clam that. SeaTerror (talk) 18:30, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

ST, you were banned before for your poor discussion skills and attitude. Learn from your past mistakes. Rhavkin (talk) 19:10, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

I don't think Loki, Im, and Ryokugyu are comparable examples because they have never been seen aside from in a silhouette. My argument is that if there is a non-silhouette form, then we should use that. For Orochi, it is also different because that is just a lighting issue, we can still see his features. But for Toki (or Oden), you can't see anything in their silhouettes. Now a better question would be: Why are we still using a child infobox for Denjiro?Nightmare Pirates (talk) 22:05, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

So what you are suggesting as that when all we have is a silhouette, we used silhouette on manga and anime. If we have any non silhouette, we only used non silhouette regardless of current appearance or current anime counterpart? Rhavkin (talk) 22:15, December 26, 2019 (UTC)

In theory, yes. In the case of Oden and Toki, they were introduced with those appearances and it seems best to have the infobox show something rather than nothing (especially since it will be a long while before they are animated in anime).Nightmare Pirates (talk) 00:38, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

The 26-years old image is the best we have to a full-image. So until the chapter that shows her last year of life shows up, we should just use the 26 years old for a placeholder. As for the anime, we should keep that in the infobox as well, since it still differentiates in media. To make it work, we can set the manga infobox as primary and anime as secondary for until a more decent anime image shows up (I know that may take a while). Yata Talk to me 06:47, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

Silhouetted anime images are taken out of the infobox if the manga shows the character's full appearance. Once the anime adapts the full apperance, it gets reinstated. That's how we've done it before. Awaikage Talk 08:40, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I second Yata's idea. That was the ideal solution to me as well, but I just didn't know it was possible to make manga primary.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 08:50, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

It isn't possible with our template. Awaikage Talk 09:00, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

I'm with Yata. Use the 26 year old image.DancePowderer Talk 04:13, January 1, 2020 (UTC)

Kage is correct regarding the placement of silhouetted images in the infobox. By the time this flashback concludes, we will probably have an acceptable manga image from the time of her death. I'd also point out that we don't necessarily need to change the infobox image if she doesn't look different at her time of death. The anime silhouette can go in her appearance gallery. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:44, January 1, 2020 (UTC)

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